Read this: Disney’s AI Gamble, MediaCity Substack Growth

I want the media club in your house and make your own frozen movie.

What do the noises coming out of Disney plus tell us about the stream with generative AI also on the show is Donald Trump racist against the BBC to 5 billion dollars in Salford so The Corporation second biggest hug speaking to surprise impacts their business to all that stuff Telegraph is back up for sale goldhanger launching show me audio Network Media quiz the news happening in this edition of the media club come on in lovely to see you both home.

Love you to be in your neck of the woods as well Stuart thank you for hosting us here audio always be welcome a new studio like the first time you seen it yourself.

Yeah, we're sitting this side of the mic in the camera, but yeah, we've been since we launched in 2012 but in this space in the white Tower for couple of

So you're very welcome to find out and empty it will be always now you got your Media club membership and to in-person great, but who do you like as your plus one this week? I think Sarah Cox on the less.

I think after her amazing children in need more than 10 million revolvers with the audio in the packages and every cat B and B close to it here or do you always say she did it but a a true Queen so please? Can I bring her with me into the club and you can give me lots of fun and 10 million.

I mean that she's really pushed it for a celebrity contribution.

She has challenge big star and also a great platform in Radio 2 yeah.

Yeah, it's also seeing the reaction on the streets in these you know times and villages in North Yorkshire is she kind of made her way down.

Just kind of go to the power of being in those places in the impact.

When you're walking to the Pudsey Bear in the tipping down rain it was great to see Lucy of TV indeed nine lives Media nice to see you again.

It's a great place in Manchester it is amazing.

Isn't it? When people come to MediaCity they can I can't believe that it exists really would be sorted University lots of Fantastic companies including.

It's great to see the studio hair and and whereabouts just the other side of the road slightly cheaper.

It is very good, but you know there's lots of kind of places that independence cancer cure a kind of party cheaper rent which is great plus one this week as well.

You know because he's stepping down from a wonderful clear at the beach.

And also from doing Children in Need so he was the one who is partly responsible casting Sarah who's clearly now household then she just done brilliant.

He hasn't she amazing when you go to the Asian Media Awards held up here every year everybody comes up and says all Tommy launch my career.

You know if it wasn't for Tommy and it's so lovely.

He's a good friend and I think he's done a lot of favours to a lot of people in television bringing their careers on when we return more about the BBC of course stop before some interesting developments about Disney think of your commute or train your car.

Maybe your walk even if you don't realise it watching Innovations are all around you on your way into the office.

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Komedia club, will you soon be able to generate your own contents for me plus? Stewart's what Bob I got the boss at Disney is internet this week? Yeah, it just a little bit like someone's gone.

You're not mentioning AI in your in your report so we need to cut a bad day.

Oh, yeah, I forgot what I say well in effect there integrating use generated content into Disney plus.

There's talk of protecting edition Taipei which is kind of thing that struck me Disney is renowned for being very hot on you know how every part of it is used as as we can all expect but I read it and I don't I don't quite understand how they going to be able to achieve what sounds like as you mentioned at the top creating your own frozen last also upholding the things that Disney feel.

Cat the media leader wrote about this week saying Disney I've had a productive conversations that with unnamed AI companies so a little cautious, but should they be more brazing and it's coming to the the media industry should I just grab it by the horns and try and tame it to have grown up as gamers and see people can watch content on games platforms and I think that Disney probably wanting to get in there and think that people can kind of play along and create a long-term contact with your audience so with broadcasting to the solicitors historic.ly broadcast podcast can be quite one way have you got a look at ways to get to work with our consumers rather than just brought up them to do it now.

So I think it's really important for platforms.

In terms of advertising it's Netflix who were predominantly subscription model have now started taking advert.

It's actually reduce the advertising revenue on YouTube and it being the other way round you know we've got her own YouTube channel called a true story and you know we've noticed the revenues gone down since since Netflix started taking advert so I think it's that way around really would you looked at to AI to enhance any of your Productions yeah? We do use a I already and we certainly kind of start using it more I've been reluctant kind of a lot of people have been asking me to kind of passover all my Rushes only I companies and I did think carefully about that but decided not to do it because I just think that we don't want computers to end up going to be in charge of that mean that the more training data.

But the thing that's really weird as there's a lot of Middleman women who got into that marketplace and they're all saying all you know if you give us kind of your then.

Obviously we've got United thousands many thousands of hours of brushes, then they will do a deal with an AI company and they will come back to us and you know we will earn some money but to me it just it just feels wrong the beginning with the final programme as well to work out what you did in more just they want lots of background video and just lots of how to move a worried that the government you know quite rightly is going to say to digital companies.

You can't just rip everything off YouTube you know and that is your kind of teaching model so I think this is in preparation for legislation.

So they want kind of legitimate for touch that can be used by AI companies.

I mean on with Paul McCartney you've got maybe maybe there's a second business model.

It's not that sort of thing on the shelf, but I think not fully understand how it's been used where it's going to be used and also I think that we have to accept that lot of people have lots of different views on AI and we work with presenters and producers as we have to respect the fact that people might not want these pressures these audio so long for interviews that you know don't get broadcast or put on podcasts to be used for things that they might not agree with so we'll challenge as well as the practicalities of Woolpack how is it being used and what would be useful restrictions in presenter contracts from Talent agents still early days.

I mean we don't really know we're not including rights to sell quite a lot of our context.

We couldn't have just so I can please but it's been talking about and I think there's a real honest conversation about being used a bit more for us.

We do live audio books here and I think that's kind of weird switch the publishing industry in terms of books being ripped and and and and and being used for Learning Zone voice of perspective.

I think there's a lot of lot more Focus been put on that for my present perspective not quite as much but it's happening in and it's important that all ok at the time of recording President Trump is expected to follow suit in a Florida courtroom against the BBC he said we can 5 billion dollars in damages up from 1 billion last week, so we'll see where that goes to can't we still have got over that fateful idea reservations of Tim Davie and Deborah Turness

What you see in the papers has the BBC started to get a grip on all of this? I think it's been difficult because obviously those resignation switch.

You know I think we're really unfortunate but they've left vacuum.

So yes, you know they're always been very rigorous processes in place.

Nobody really knows how this mistake happen, but you know from our point of view we always found you know the Panorama team and I speakers and other one of the biggest suppliers with the BBC Four moment got to in production and to that they're very keen on I kind of feel but you know it's such a rigorous process that it's really hard to understand how this happened you know for those of us on the inside because the BBC is extremely good at kind of making sure that everybody knows you know what's in kind of every shot and ever.

Descriptors really carefully thought through so goodnight says that happened, but the truth is it wasn't broadcast in America and it seems that the general legal cancer is the trump hasn't got a defamation case much as he might like to chat about it.

He doesn't need it normally pretty good at writing down realisations and he's been bullying a lot of Media organisations in America already and it's really important that the BBC and everybody else stands firm.

I mean it's so ironic.

You know it couldn't be a kind of more ridiculous situation when you take the kind of wide view on that I mean it was a concern to us that it looks 1.6 the Independent sector might be being blamed.

I sort of expected October to be with the bus that doesn't seem to have particularly happened and it seems to be a lot of the movie the BBC

Live the process but the dishes worth a lot of in-house people in the world and in the whole thing I think October it come up an idea that the BBC were keen on but perhaps the BBC ready working on something and sometimes we've ended up doing that's where you work very closely with the in-house team but also you've got to think yesterday.

No problems with the the guys a film and I have to say that you know some years ago.

I'm talking 115.

Maybe even 20 years ago Channel 4 became very aware of the fact that it was incredibly important for independent production companies to feel that they were able to kind of speak about anything any stage.

You know good fear was stopping you know within the Independent sector from talking to Channel 4 about problems that they had and such an awful really good at the time and the BBC have followed that and

But I know in the industry.

You know deliberately has a kind of no fear culture you speak up culture and so you know it's quite unusual for these for the guys the film you know for that problem to emerge but obviously that ole devil got to be investigated once there are people back in those positions of power too kind of you.

No make sure that that these mistakes don't happen again, but prior to these two recent examples of the other big story is the big problems that that happened in in recent years Royal kind of internal shouldn't really matter you know because it's a casual lysed freelance industry anyway.

You know whether you're working for BBC Studios or when working for 9-line.

You know everybody has to know how things are done and it's just got to be carefully regulated and managed we will use all blow up.

Grace of God for things you've worked on or did you just say this is an outlier? It's one of those crazy things that's hard to have to plan for a human.

That's why they've got to be kind of ways of asking tough questions, you know of your suppliers and of your producers and that has to be taken very seriously but to be honest.

It is so and I'm not going to you know step into a kind of judgemental roll, when I really don't know anything about these these things happen particularly on the you know on the the trump programme all I can say is that in my experience in a the editor of Panorama Karen Wightman is absolutely brilliant the team are as well.

You know the executive producers commissioning editors that she works alongside are all really really good and everything is checked so rigorously mean.

Could see that I have to say it's my husband to Leeds on our panoramas as the executive producer for nine lives and he's often on zoom for literally 7 hours going through every word of a script and if people could see that they would recognise why Tim Davie was applauding kind of BBC journalism and how rigorous it is and her territories and said it's just really really unfortunate that this has happened Stuart you're a big fly to be making of hours about put on the radio site do if she's like this sort of flu down turn down to you or I mean I think you know we show that similar kind of nervous to civilian.

This is an indie.

Who was it was part of the story.

So there was an initial moment to go in.

How does this impact the application of external suppliers? I think was interesting for me is actually how well certificate from Radio perspective we as a radio supply of Anna doing these were treated in this moment I think.

It would be really easy when the BBC going to this too kind of girl you know it's an internal thing but see you manage that the BBC made themselves available to our teams have any questions or concerns and it demonstrated that when stuff like this happened.

It's not just about the BBC but it's about the wider community.

It's about suppliers internal teams and external teams.

It was good to see that in that moment doesn't like you know your external they appreciated that these news headlines with impact lots of people no matter where you working in that supply chain to BBC the staff nervous my solicitor secret on the screen and think about this and ok.

Maybe something picked up, but whoever was in charge of that edit them must be thinking all the things that happened but not not their fault because we picked up by somebody else is that is that a challenge?

Human highlight that the decisions that program makers whether it's TV radio whatever whatever you're making the decisions that you do making a daily basis innocent choices with whatever that choice is that have happened can have a huge consequences, so yeah, it's only you know read the headlines and went over it.

Is it is a nervous but as I said I think when when the dust settles a bit and and and you zoom out, it's Testament to how the BBC work with them in has teams and Exhaust suppliers to make sure that he's like this are in a limited the trump lawsuit part of me thinks it's quite good news for the BBC to have what seems more and more crazy lawsuits is actually a good discussion for them to the public be on their side does it does it just drags even further I'm really interested to see how engaged the public are with it because I think that.

Volkswagen Touareg side the industry you know just find it quite hard to understand how it happened but be you know the kind of crazy figures that speaking about it and obviously everybody has their own opinion on on trump I mean perhaps if the BBC is perceived to be being bullied and the life tyres are thought to be threatened blackmailed almost then perhaps that will kind of encourage people to get behind the national broadcaster.

I just hope that he moves on to something else and find somebody else to be angry about don't like bullies as a treat, but there's quite a lot of people particularly on on the right in the UK will trump at ex-prime minister Boris Johnson he was saying still doing the right thing.

Playing against the behaviour TLC think there's more value there in a conversation on lots of political spectrum the value of the licence fee and how big is BBC funded.

I think the BBC standing firm to go like we're not spending licence be paid the money in costs like this.

I think it's is highlighting the importance of putting every pound in the programme making ok.

Just before the break early Edinburgh International television festival is change one of those words cats, which one of those words are they changing unbelievably Edinburgh they said they might do they just opening their opening up the opportunity for the for the TV festival to give to a new location at the right thing to do.

I think we need to shake it up.

I think it needs to be much more forward-looking.

It needs to be cheaper.

It's become very expensive and that makes it exclusive but unfortunately the big companies at the big broadcasters that used to fund it effectively bringing a lot of their staff along even they can't afford it as much anymore, so I think they have to do something but I go to the creative cities convention this year in Bradford this year and I think next year it's going to be in Liverpool and that's kind of made a real kind of unique selling point of travelling around the country and its main out and for companies in the nations and regions and I think it would be quite sad really if Edinburgh kind of ends up doing the same particularly because I love going to the comedy when I'm there what that is one of the nice things you get to take part in the whole broad Edinburgh festivals that happen, but is expensive accommodations expensive travel expenses to get up there and as you say the tickets pretty pricey to

That would you like the festival to come here to Manchester and Salford yeah, not pay it might be wonderful and they're getting through the perfect place for it, but I think I imagine there is a call with people like that says who will go there in in and out.

You know you're in your out, but there's also probably a lot of people who involved in the industry who want to get involved with you know possessions talks networking that they can't do it because of where is so, I think any opportunity to bring his events two different different places.

I imagine the group The Devil you will go wherever it is, but being able to open up to the part of the country is sounds interesting and the first one has been under fire a little bit the TV so affected can I post covid lots of people out of work and having an expensive event that God I think differently about what they do.

They are taking a lot of time to think about the way forward and I do think that as the industry is changing and as more television producers and making podcast for example.

I just wonder if there isn't a kind of way of kind of turning it into the broadcast festival or the content festival rather than it being stuck as the television festival it has to be future-proofed.

I'm not sure moving it out of Edinburgh is necessary but I think that they could consider other venues up there perhaps working with university or you know find a way of kind of cutting costs that isn't necessarily about moving away from Scotland ok when we return at substacks having a bit of a moment hello Media publicity Patrick here from podcast discover.

Marketing company by this week.

We've been thinking about brands podcast can be valuable for brands and lucrative for producers when they're done right, but doing it right is the key.

How do you make sure you're actually making something be target audience will choose to listen to it's something.

We've got plenty of experience with which would be happy to share.

Just getting search up podcast discovery.com that's podcast discovery.com some new the submarine was waiting for him and he entered the meeting the Argonaut I'm taking him to the brink Atlantis would be there as Sam sort and exit the crew were frozen in escape a Sam watch the clock the captain ignored Square morning Simon and so at lunch Sam would take out his book and end their wait.

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Some stories we can talk about in the club this week the Telegraph and shaking off another suitor and is back on market for the third time in almost 3 years and I am I a House of Lords select an independent body oversee the sale meta has won a major antitrust case in the states meaning that the Facebook owner won't have to break off WhatsApp or Instagram at the judges ruling suggest your meta business suite is safe for as long as tiktok is still operating in America and the Financial Times launch at the new product ft.

Alphaville is a markets and insights blog games to play in The Brand in front of younger.

Replenisher audiences links all of the stories available on our sub stack at the

Club.com is free to sign up to and you also get a copy of briefed at our weekly Roundup of all the other media podcast and what they're talking about I guess for with me so substrate from the FTSE 100 companies going into they got their own subscription products good thing from to do yeah, I think so I mean we have the kind of constant patreon vs.

Substr open Podcast respective it still feels like patreon.

His is the more natural place for us, but I think you know this amazing examples like Lenny's newsletter example.

You know what that team doing on substack.

Is is amazing we build our podcast business on advertising revenue that subscription being able to help us ride ride those highs and lows in the advertising market trusting so I think it's I think particularly for kind of storytelling and true Crime for example.

That's where it's an interesting space for us for this audience you just cry.

Good morning at the moment at which makes sense why they are going down this route people movie on so aware, but you can do quite a lot of subscription things on a substack subscription video and audio as well as well as you can replace a platform patreon.

That's one of the reasons.

Why it's it's it's everything it's everything you wanted to be in in one place.

It's kind of taking all of her the good bits of and got rid of some of the B later on so I think you're interested in the UK how it pans out feel that need a few more kind of media companies to be embracing substack subscription therefore it to get a traction, but it's something to give an eye on that cats have their own subscription platform and big subscription business use upstairs as a way to reach audiences that live in that place.

What's happening is the new mantra is Go where the readers Are Go

The viewers are so for example.

I was at the ITV non-scripted briefing day yesterday and they were talking about the importance of YouTube so they've launched a true Crime YouTube channel and we do a series for the returning series called tiktok medical viral and that's actually done it it did under a million for the first viewing on the unfortunately of the second series, but it's done 2 million on YouTube already kind of within the first week and on ITV acts as well.

It's their highest actual series so that's and it's mostly younger viewers, so I think that they're looking you know for that exactly the same kind of model in 8-ft needs to be as all the Legacy media companies need to be reaching out to you when you have to go where they are thinking about selling platforms Stewart with you soon lots of discussion about podcasts moving to Netflix and some of the video platforms.

What did you?

When you saw that news you think they can get some of that Netflix money today.

Yeah, I mean sometimes they commission sometimes.

They don't sometimes a licence sometimes.

They don't I'm sure every other podcast producer are kind of you.

No activator and have conversations quite often podcast coming out to favourite broadcasters and maybe some of the different models of thing is something that I quite like to see that message.

I need it to be kind of condition, but I think the quality and the content is coming out of podcast in the UK and around the world is up there with contents on the streaming platform so licencing as well as commissioner you something I think it's quite an interesting conversation forced to have when you're thinking about new shows is that also in mind like you play something that could work on a TV streaming platform absolutely we sit across kind of entertainment formats and which is you know quite easy to.

Getting around at studio in and getting that on on on visual platforms the challenge comes with a podcast at a bit more in-depth sound design.

How do you transfer that I forgot to tell you that we need to face an industry without holding the quality of audio and audio craft the the intruder so often audio perspective but always thinking about video and we have to think about your projects TV projects, but when they digital products is it the same contents that's just happens to be discussing different platform was it different things for different it has to be different because what's changing is that the advertising revenue that we've relied on for so many years and television it hasn't kind of gone to one of the place and big chunk that we could follow as in follow the money.

It's basically being splitting and million different ways and the whole advertising Industries totally different now we all.

That we all you know use these different platforms and can see that for ourselves what that means is that you can't really replicate from a YouTube advertising revenue the kind of programs that we make for the broadcasters you just can't so what you can do is podcast like this.

You know which film so very much interview programming and you're looking at a budget so kind of you know instead of 250,000iu looking at budget of 5 that are you know for an hour and that's the difference but what really interesting because I think television can sometimes be accused of Beano getting coloured so complex and you know creatively that it's become kind of more and more complicated and the production values gone higher and higher and higher and it's become more and more expensive as a consequence and actually the viewers.

Often just like something that's kind of you know cheaply made that very authentic where they can make decisions for themselves things on edited in the same way because he don't know the budget and use actually love that so I think it's really interesting and I love the fact that it's made broadcasting much more level playing field so that you know any kid with a camera.

You know can make a film on put it out on YouTube and if there entertaining and if they're persistent and if they you know I have a little bit of luck and grab people's imaginations then can I take off with their own career that your current projects? Where is the time of you and your team spread at the moment what they working on already and we've got an important can documentary that were doing for the BBC that's that's presenter lad, but it has been announced yet.

So I can't say more about that, but it's I'm very excited about that.

And then we were hoping to go back into production with our true crime series tiktok medical borrow for ITV so we're just waiting to look at the figures because the overnights anymore.

It's about kind of the 28-day consolidated figures, so we're just waiting for them to come in and looking at how it's worked across platforms and the number of and if 16346 Broughton etc busy at the moment.

I'm across Radio podcast audio books so lots of radio right now.

It's getting a Christmas tree records always the always defend looking at the Christmas but yeah lots of lots of the team working on on radio programmes in the podcast base lots of original podcast couple of weeks.

Are we dropping the girls bathroom.

He's kind of YouTube podcast into our internet work and those girls are brilliant.

Do they make it themselves they be making myself.

I successfully and when I'm working together for a team to come enhance the production and support them with production support them with commercialising in effect helping take it to the next level in the olden brilliant.

They already done it before we got involved, but they got any studio you set the joints in our space in Faringdon in in a pocket Studios there and I'm looking for ways to help to help them grow a podcast to do a lot themselves, so want to give them some of their own time back.

I imagine I'm making the show and does it increase that the yield of how much money can you make from me? I mean you know we've got a team hear that are kind of making is on podcasts all day everyday, so they're being able to plug into that infrastructure and the workflows that we've got off and makes the production cheaper more efficient but also going to Commercial

You are working across podcast and in a lot of a podcast are awful.

Thankfully and commercially I'm not a busy so I will bility to be able to kind of Crossrail podcast and sell the network and not just individual podcast it's kind of the economies of scale that come with that often means that you have created for making YouTube audio podcast content Jeanette help them in a growing in all definition of the word row of the world or do you still work with them all your stuff sit alongside best off.

I mean we work with a cast Acaster are brilliant and you know they they are servicing a brilliant job servicing lots of big agencies have I'm getting up lots of podcast and lots of plans.

We then show that internally with direct sales so working with may be smaller agencies Direct brands those clients who may be aren't using agency, but I still investing podcasts.

We kind of cover the the whole market using the power and scared of a cast with also the kind of the bespoke more direct approach that we have with internal teams and again that sort of a commercial view of the market means that some podcast of the work with might be opening up new channels for revenue.

They won't they won't maximising before and one of your Big Show's 6:30 in my boss is back on tour again back onto yes playing arenas in March next year is an amazing past it seems off first original kind of lead us on our original journey William Jordan brilliant and wonderful even to the live audience and yeah was supervising it next year for Manchester Arena Wembley Glasgow and Cardiff and we're currently looking at budgets for making William Hanson fly so who knows what that show will be.

Testament to how popular podcasts are and how much audiences really want to be part of that experience and see it and feel it and be in the room with these people who listen to all day everyday, so they are very proud to be on the tickets on sale about to go on sale in yes, they are flying out the door William Hunter like William Hill today's yes good good colour opened its doors in studio and Band B Salford what is the relationship with London wheel of London is a reality with you know where the do you know the centre of the industry is in a we will always have a link to London and you know we've invested in till season because of a practical perspective recording Stephanie we have to be there but the north is kind of our our home.

It's where we live where we live to be and I think as cats early.

I think a lot of people.

Face by the community here have I been 2 years and the opportunities that exist here and and what could be done and you know seeing Children in Need here, but still need on Friday night and just play the programs.

I can confirm MediaCity it's some it's brilliant to see and hope it continues for a long time is there still strong gravity pulling people turn to the less than it was definitely I think things have have really improved and I think you know of CR and the campaign to tighten the out of London criteria with Ofcom and I think that that as well you know because that meant the real jobs had to be created out of London you know people had to make the programs that they were registering has been made out of London actually beyond and outside the M25 so yeah, I'm pleased about that and I think that it's incredibly important that everybody has a chair.

To work in the media whatever aspect of the media, they want to work it and it's just really important that it's not just those people that happened to live in London happened born in London the driver to work in television or radio podcast to know all these different programs are just so important because it's the nation reflecting the nation and it's got to be the whole country and not just one part of it.

Just looked time for the audio Network Media Quiz free media stories connected One theme and then shoe horns into a format of the existing Media property this week.

It's shop news producer has sensationalize three already quite exciting Story by giving my front page tabloid twist basically name the story from the heavily upon Tyne audio network.

And has scored at the music creating a great playlist for today's game.

It's best to free so buzzing with your name's when you know the answer so catch you will say that as usual say Stuart let's play Shark news Lineker plans to fry your brain Stuart cat just Gary Lineker's companies creating a new podcaster all about Sands yes, so the rest of science science with Hannah Fry and Michael Stevens a good pairing yeah, and I think they're going to send you video it and it's exciting.

I I think it's fantastic that they've done so well with their all their podcast no door hanger saver.

It's a video.

Best podcast from Stephen's both in the US and the UK the right pair of the they doing it to us and UK school great.

I'm not I'm not as Michael's work.

I think it's really telling that they're kind of got that American hosting the YouTuber vsauce on the 6s turning channels.

I guess this is relevant no matter where you're listening what I think it's really smart move to kind of pairwise two together and make it transatlantic and get the cross promotional capacity across the rest of the network.

I'm intrigued by a rest is history breast is science crossover like this historical moments in science all the signs of football.

I think you're doing an amazing job in terms of emotion, but I think the opportunity.

They're building there two really tried all the answers in terms of content with the talent they have

Yeah, it's exciting ok here's front page news story number to British outfits in record-breaking $1 highest who so bring the sun and soul the billion-dollar Stuart Stuart ok? It's I don't it's TV deals UK sales on the sales of British goes to American buyers sword above a billion dollars for the first time last year according to packed.

It's great that we have a market for ARM my where's it is.

It's just a slightly odd story because I know people that have been going to nip com' 4 l 30 years that didn't go this year because I'm just going to be so Dad and apparently was so Dad but maybe it's because of the London content market taking over.

Fantastic news and I hope it continues I saw a lot of interesting in what we doing.

It's really difficult to know because it also depends upon advertising revenue being available and advertising revenue funding programs.

You know across the world not just here so the cost of programmes have gone up and and that's one of the reasons why the figures are bigger but now if you do get a drama commissioned you've got to have all that pre-sales money you need to put into the budget to actually make it work so long may it continue right one more to Kelvin MacKenzie in shock prayers for the Guardian cat yes, this is about the hacking scandal and amazingly k says he knew.

And he is very shocked and he applauds the journalism that the Guardian have done now with 20/20 hindsight at the time.

He was very critical of the I'm glad that he's in his old age coming round to realising who was putting the truth in the first place.

He said about with my box appearance and send you said it was a total akt had empathy extracted by a major surgery New York City when I was about 20 to admire him for his acting ability Cavan in his old age now as it's very happy to throw bombs at the old boss has been living in New Zealand for the last couple of years and in New Zealand the dental and burdock in you know so they have any Murdoch's newspapers and it has crossed my mind whether brexit would have happened.

You know how history could have been changed.

We didn't have him here.

Yes, it would have been a different Media sector just about that might be stewards enquiry stewards enquiry and when you can investigate selling our podcast for October in dollars to the USB come back and tell us how you get on to Alexa audio network was playing music in today's quiz remember me and you can do it for you to just had to audionetwork.com is also a link in the show notes today people keep up with you and your work.

Yes, oh, that's media.co.uk and also our YouTube channel which is called a true story about a true story.

What's what's on there, so it's all our past programs.

We actually it was sunny can one of our produce the directors who and started it when he was new to the company about 14 years ago and then we started monetizing it in June 20-22.

Just going great guns at son got a lot of true Crime as well as human interest stories, so it's not that many other channels doing what it does so that's done very well and now we're taking other producers content and giving them 60% of gross profits no cost so you know we just cover our costs out of the 40% that we take long mate continue to grow because I think it's so important for all producers to be involved in YouTube and the other new platforms as well.

Keep up with your work or do I stop com' and audio always on all the places to thank you.

Thank you for watching and listening.

My name is Matty given the Producers Matt Hill it was a rethink audio production official support from podcast Discovery

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