Read this: Reform UK media strategy, French Bloquons Tout protestors, new Vogue editor the British journalist who interviewed Hi

I'm already Stewart and I grew up wanting to be a hero and I'm still fascinated by the ideas of heroism in my new series.

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Hello.

This is the media show from BBC Radio 4 hello and welcome this week will learn about the new editor mode and why there may be fewer print Editions latest political crisis in France is in full swing we're going to hear how the prime minister and his critics are experimenting with different.

Tactics will be talking about the ethics of access journalism as a new book tells the story of the British correspondent who made his name interviewing Hitler and the Nazi elite to Nottinghamshire where tensions between Reform UK councillors and local journalists have escalated the Nottingham Post and it's website Nottinghamshire live said you've been barred from interviews and press releases although now the council leader says the band applies only to him.

He is what he told the BBC in Nottingham presenting.

What what I was saying you misinterpreting.

They've got a sentence an orphan.

If that's good for my opinion always giving honest be honest.

I'll be honest with you today and I always do that, but I don't like it.

I know you got a job to do but I don't like it when things are twisted to make it Sam something I've not said that was Mick Barton the council leader will the activation is that some journalists have been behaving.

Activist stand reporters and have crossed the line according to Richard Tice reform UK deputy leader of the difference between a media organisation scrutinising and being a count as opposed to is tenchley being an activist and will call them out and I'll sort it out between them we speak to media all over the place, but there is a difference well is editor of Nottinghamshire live and join us welcome Natalie hello great to have you here and perhaps you can clear it up because there does seem to be some confusion here.

Can you explain your understanding of the van? Yeah? I can just to say we want to resolve this amicably and it's getting a bit into tit-for-tat which are not very keen but ultimately doing odd jobs and we haven't even gone very hard.

What happened to Oliver pridmore slightly critical article of what's going on behind the scenes with local government reorganisation? It's going to be a massive thing is going to cost you money.

I'm not everyone agrees on the option that the leader wanted more to vote for so some people smoke out and said they weren't happy and counsellors said they weren't happy about the option and it said they might have suspended if they don't vote with the leader of the meal, but your understanding is it is it is a ban that's coming to immediate effect and does involve all the counselors rather than just the leader or you don't know well for the first time in the last 24-hours about the band.

He's gone to ground before that last Tuesday

Telecommunications at the County Council that we would not be allowed to speak to anyone 41 counsellors in including the officers have been instructed to take off press release distribution list and events event the other week when she went to inject some pictures of Media trying to talk to him.

He said that of course you can speak to you my 40 councillors.

I never said that unfortunately is on record that he did say that you just won't be able to talk to me and he added that you can talk to them but I doubt we'll talk to you in the current time.

It's it's confusing mind games and what kind of an impact does it have on your newsrooms ability to report on the council and any Council matters, but presumably you see as important for your audiences to understand.

Because you are and what we can do and the answers were trying to get for council tax payers readers people have voted for a form of want to know what's going on our brands and are journalists reputation because as you heard there Richard who is very prominent in the media and gets has been saying we've been behaving as activists and we've been distorting facts which are strongly dispute and have you had any Direct contact yourself with any of the reform UK members or counsellors or indeed Richard Tice at the end of June one of our local democracy reporters which the scheme funded by the BBC she recorded one of the members of fell apart and Cameron didn't know what he's talking about.

That was a bit upset and I won't be that reported steam mcmartin.

Just ran off the record chat you know to introduce myself say hello when really well we spoke to personal numbers we have exclusive stories coming up it was so is a good relationship, but what what relationship? Is it like now.

Have you have you had any conversation since this happened since the ban yes? I I I I wanted to do any double down.

I also went to full council meeting myself yesterday and I presented him with a copy of the newspaper to say TalkTalk please read this and you know exchange words you said reporting a bin and accurate and I said but it's not and also we're it's a regulated.

Please feel free to go to them she wants to any said he was going to do you see this as an isolated incident or are you concerned it could set a precedent for other councils, what Other Boleyn

The first it's not isolated it happened in Bristol a few years ago with the mayor.

I don't know the details of that.

I do not happened.

It happened very recently with a long as well.

Where they are you know completely excluded another local democracy reporter accusing him of Conservative Council just to be clear this completely back down on that now and everything but I think there's going to be more of this and I'm really worried because it plays well with reform voters do not speak to the mainstream media as an MP in our area and he makes a big show of his joined the band the Show of it.

He didn't come to a hustings and his audience on face.

Love it in one of the polls.

They're going to win more seats when will council's I think he's definitely going to happen in other areas just the same we've got good relationships in Derbyshire

But you know if you get that right combination of personalities it Could Happen definitely ok, please do keep us posted here on the media.

Show that Natalie from Nottinghamshire live, thank little kitty Donaldson who's senior political commentator at the I kiss you welcome to the media show you heard Natalie they're describing her side of the story.

Do you think what she's Xperia fit with a broader approach reform.uk taking to the media or do you see this is an isolated story? I think she's doing God's work and good luck them all however.

It doesn't reflect what's going on in London actually we've had a series of press conferences news conferences with Nigel Farage and Co over the summer.

They very much try to own the new gender while everyone else apartments on holiday and Farage has been calling as many journalist who turned up to his press conferences alongside doing.

Interviews on with newspapers and and what would the BBC another broadcasters so it's not something I've seen I suspect it stems from a kind of inadequacy these people are very recently elected very new and their jobs and some quite sure about that jobs courses and much more seasoned and articulate a political communicator and I don't think he would be sort of caught out and perhaps the same way the local council at might be interested in one detail of what you said their kids Nigel Farage is ringing individual journalist to attend press conferences.

Can you tell us more about that is ringing around a long list of people who is covering his events.

I know I didn't bring in p.m.

If you're there any turn up and you say I'm coming.

They will give you a question which is lead to a lot of funny random press conference as you know the old one on Lauren order.

Asking about you the triple lock on pensions for instance because you know there are endless questions and endless Media outlets you all want to ask questions and I welcome that and I wish the other parties would do the same for me is approaching press conferences in particular.

Its most high-profile.

Press conferences involving Nigel Farage away from more plastic settings such as that how do you review reforms Media strategy particularly online and they just bought himself a sort of shiny new studio on the 24th floor Millbank tower which I have a look at the other day is a sofa.

You can see out onto the River Mersey the London Eye behind the camera and the point of that is that they can react in real-time to events so when Peter Colt technology secretary made a comment comparing Nigel Farage to Jimmy Savile over the online.

Safety act Farage responded immediately using the camera, but it wasn't that sort of a mobile phone held by an intern it was a proper broadcast level camera on Sunday but it's directly down to know thanks Studios and I could go out on Sky on BBC news or channels, because it's the right level of quality, so they've really professionalized in a month or so and I will save a photo has doing the broadcast up to an hour and a day because I don't have to try try and all that kind of different studios in the Millbank understood this they're using that television studio to generate clips which they simply provide the broadcasters or are they able to appear live and do it to and fro because I would imagine their advantages to simply recording the clip exactly how you would like an and sending it out.

I believe that if he wants to do it for the two-way as it were you have to go back down to 4 Millbank so bad.

We have to do that it sorted one way you know that signal from reform HQ but that was to report in real time but the party I spoke to party about this and they said what would you both? You know sometimes you need to do a quick rebuttal and it's also Dinner online videos for their content another time.

He'll go down and he'll you know doing morning round or series of interviews with political reporters one final question we've got party conferences coming up reform.uk is is this weekend are the party conferences as bigger Media events as they were so 10 or 15 years ago.

I think so and partly because there's a sort of standing view the other party stand out of the way during each party's political conference.

That's not always help to but it isn't it is the kind of working assumption therefore we will you know Westminster

Pile up to Birmingham this weekend for a Foreman and let's go to go to the others but yes, I think they are they are massive Media events, but of course of party try and bypass us as much as the trying to appeal you know directly by TiK ToK hole, whatever channels to two photos online and via Facebook etc.

Thank you very much and Donaldson chief commentator at the I know yet more twists and Turns in French politics at the moment prime minister for swab a who has unexpectedly submitted his government to a vote of confidence in Parliament next Monday he's proposing a range of cuts and also acting to public holidays.

That's not gone down well in some quarters.

There's a grassroots protest movie called lock onto which translates as let block everything it began on social media and it's calling for a day of action on September 10th and both the prime.

And it's critics know that media is a crucial part of this standoff understand, how first of all with Hugh Schofield the Paris correspondent for BBC News you.

Thank you very much for coming on first of all of us no idea how the French Media is is covering this imminent vote they will have to find out whether you're on the left and more crisis added on crisis that if we're not in a kind of revolutionary state quite know that kind of the beginning to appear.

There's a consensus that's what was started with president macron's calling of the year ago which led to the first of all the government that folding of the budget now.

The government property falling over the budget better the country institutions are under strain like never before and then the file your crisis economic issues, what hasn't happened before was added to the next dangerous.

Is it is of the country? That is the fifth Republic the presidential system under screen and what creates a feeling that you can't go on this before but Prime Minister barrier is not giving up without a fight and he is.

I know pushing his argument range of Media environment not least he's launch the YouTube channel and also a podcast series tell us about that and why he's turning to those.

Well, you did in July under control and debt the countries in which the country is big and he has picked up on himself to become educated to the Country on this matter and they take it on his shoulders always like to try and figure 222 to talk to the nation and he's doing by saying that you your confidence you lose your kind of things that is the kind of political suicide you know very well that you don't want to get this food and and and and and and so easy.

How serious the problem is with this series of videos but that's my question listening to this issue is whether he wants to educate the country, but does the country wants to be educated is podcast stories YouTube YouTube videos popular know you have been elected by the Prime Minister in a white shirt is a white background 7 times in a row because your holidays no one has done it checked in and have your question about what the French feel well.

I mean you know I mean it's famous.

You just don't understand things the same way that the Anglo-Saxons people about debt they tend to believe you.

Would they say yes very well, you know that we've been here before I should have been a little bit.

Do you like to remember many many many years ago arriving in Paris a small hotel and a protest went down the road near the hotel and I said to the receptionist what's happening and they reply.

It's September and under is there an element hear that this is different or is what is the block or two movement and how does it compare with previous process that have emerged out of French Summers when it's very good question because we are in an era of social media and tiktok accounts and secret accounts all that all you can say is that there is a sort of festering movement out there there were reports from these of domestic Intelligence Agency out today all the best media accounts attached.

Who are who can control something with started off by you think but it's very much taken over by the hard.

And that the slogans on our website on social media very similar to the ones at the fast we seen with the price of government buildings, but because it is absolutely no structure to it.

It's on the sales to do what they done in the past which is due to thank you very much indeed that she Schofield the Paris correspondent BBC News and you they're describing the nature of this protest movement and it's nature is very much connected to how it came into being and yes, we got someone here has been studying the movement.

Is associate professor of Information and Communication Sciences at the University of Lille welcome powder I wondered your you've been researching the block on to buy joining.

It's telegram channels.

How did the movement first form on the instant messaging app? Do you know your first called to block the country apparently on telegram by a group called the essentials this group is still active and he's calling for a boycott of anything national transaction like do not display card on the 10th of September and also to block logistics sectors it calls for more individual actions that differ from the forms associated to adult social movements really took off in July following the

Magical and now there is another big movement did it's cold and in your block on to it means let's get let's block everything in this movement is organising on telegram and the showing a big Discount Centre like what's Deezer in social and labour rights and more left oriented than the first one so different spheres online and like trying to mobilise the population.

Can you mention value mention that there on telegram chosen these semi private networks not just telegram, but also signal instead of using I mean when I was covering the yellow vest the previous incarnation in France they were using.

That was the greatest moving in 2018, so what there's been an Evolution in those seven also years since yes, I cannot be certain but we can maybe show me of the movement may be different from the yellow vest movement actually like and more and more aware to which we can add to light up.

What about risks and Sylvanians Dynamics associated with the use of digital technologies, so don't worry Facebook on Facebook they can be exactly it's almost like a with a yellow past the public Facebook groups and saw.

Yeah, it's repression of Sam actions to block the traffic for example.

It was very very strong so these applications like a senior signal or telegram information to be equipped and support user from institutional so I can take the police and everybody by surprise reasons because they also Hello to create and multiple action groups which are more or less open more or less public and also where moderation is more professional and guarantees that are respectful debate in the first stage of the moment the word like a lot of.

And also the first of broken to telegram the mass of one was closed and then we opened within you like with a more strict moderation and briefly very briefly because we've run out of time.

How did they feel about the media are they inviting the media to their events well, the moment is very suspicious of the mainstream Media especially they think they are linked to the dominant interests.

I need to go and economy powers so for example not allowed to access and cover the action please in my cereal voted by going to explode you're so show which is not new actually.

It was very strong also with a yellow vest movement.

Presentation of the movement and to produce content independently ok, pal I said thank you very much indeed for coming on the programme now after nearly 2 years American vogue has a new editor although I'm like a predecessor which is fashions high priestess Dame Anna Wintour the new boss isn't actually being called editor my lady title is head of editorial content well, Michael Graham Brown is media correspondent for the New York Times and author of Empire of the elite inside condenast the media Dynasty that America Michael you're the perfect person to tell us first about Chloe Mel and she's been alive only two years longer than the 37 years that Anna Winter was Vogue actually is an old soul in a very good.

She's actually trained as a journalist.

Visual stylist as many the Editors of Vogue have been she has a right Sensibility she's very very funny and she's been the editor of boat.com for the last 2 years under which stewardship the website has doubled in traffic and she's brought kind of a fresh more.

Youthful energy to and magazine that brentley has needed to adjust the times.

It's sort of the old old maid of the the fashion establishment and needed to get a bit of you grow up so I wanna people in you excited about to say we will do and Anna winter's professor great excitement, but I mentioned that Chloe doesn't get the editor-in-chief title that her predecessor had what why is that? And what does the new role involve I suppose so Chloe is the head of editorial content which I description.

Title has been retired as it has a British bulldog and French bulldog in the other international edition a yes, so she will retain her leadership of the global brand of this does mean that in fact that has made it clear that she's not even going to vacate her office at can't enter Clarice Cliff pottery will remain in situ, so I will have to figure it down the hall one might even use the metaphor getting over her shoulder and the question of whether she'll be able to really bring her own identity and use ability to the magazine remains the grand puba magazines.

Runway fashion immediately via social media or print Media in in today's digital world and the 1st announcement that Chloe has made is to reduce of bugs print Editions she'd like to make them more of events in themselves printed on high-quality paper more of an object I suppose that the Monthly magazine you might pick up at the supermarket in question of course folks identity is as a glossy magazine presents is sorted the fashion in the fashion establishment and although it's power has dwindled in recent years the idea is well.

How can we translate this to a digital where competing against tiktaka is an instagrammers and all manner of influences, so I'll probably save a bit of money you buy printing Theory issues.

The question is will it give up?

Power hi Michael is Rose here, as we've already been mentioning Vegas published by the media company just help us understand.

How a publishing house of this nature opera which has a number of high-profile Brands within it would each brand be its own separate entity or are they very much expected now to intertwine II's magazines go well beyond the magazine stand to events and digital content and so on Welbeck in the ears and and my book in Paris for the talks about the crazy expense accounts the Concorde flights to Europe via 24-hour limousine service or around the York magazine's competed against each other over photographers and models and editors and an even advertises is the pies a lot smaller for the company has had financial troubles in recent years and they have now been assisting with the word for your Bratz write my Dad's old.

Vanity Fair gqr Cardiff Central fashion brands that are remaining at there now being urged to co-operate to combine forces so that they can create more revenue across the brands.

They don't have the luxury of intramural competition any longer in today's industry in terms of the status of editors or heads of editorial content whatever the job titles might be do you think that era when the and magazine editor was a household me is over it's quite possible that going Malo ever it might be maybe able to become a digital age iteration of that personality.

I'm a bit of a sentimental list when it comes to come to the BDO world and I can see that the idea of the celebrity editor as I say graydon Carter Tina brown and Anna inhabited.

I don't think.

See the likes of that again the question is whether Chloe digital presents photographs of her family and the wife can she put her a taste making abilities into that Mix and area is an open question she's going to have kind of her introduction.

I suppose over the next few weeks over should be visiting London in Paris in Milan and I'll be very curious visit to sort of watch and see what sort of welcome in reception.

She received.

I think they'll be a god at Goodwill will the editor of Vogue still have the front row seats at every show I think we can take a look and see what transpires sunglasses famous for those sunglasses and never come off.

No Chloe has her own personal Style but I think it's quite practice 1 fashionable sunglasses, so that will be amazed.

In the face of the magazine, I just one final thing Michael every media company that we cover on the media show has its own culture the BBC definitely does the new what times does of course what about condenast written a book about it.

How easy was it to get people to talk to you and describe the experience of being inside the company the current company did not wish to collaborate the voice been very many many doesn't have the Editors from all areas of the company even going back to the 1960s to talk about their time.

There is a very coded culture.

I think it's a little less ruthless and brusque as it was inside the Devil Wears Prada the film with a Meryl Streep but there are a lot of unspoken code the price you take care yourself with a certain confidence.

I think you're expected to dress in a fashion-forward manner and even at the New Yorker you know I think that the tweeds of the

There are supposed to be less threadbare perhaps then they were in the past so I get a 16 it is not just about your journalistic skills, but also about your social skills and being able to navigate.

What is Costa culture? Will do that with a great deal of a Plumbase on the fat not least she's very well connected as her father was the French film that email and her mother the American actress Candice Bergen so there we go green van.

Thank you so much for coming on the media show and telling us about not just saying that involved but your book Empire of the elite.

No of course as we just been hearing interviews are always part of a journalist work, but we're going to hear a story of a different type of interview now because in the 1930s Daily Mail journalist called George Ward price became famous for his interviews with Hitler he also Died with Goebbels holiday with caring and was described.

Himself cos always there well and you book called interviewing Hitler uncovers the story of wood prices extraordinary access and the troubling compromises that came with it is written welcome Richard thank you.

Thanks for being you.

Just tell us first who was George W Ward Prowse it and why does this story matter to George's price was one of the the most famous journalists in the world in the first half of the 20th century and the winter was famous for her sunglasses.

He was famous for his monocle and he was he was seen as no other British person wore a monocle plummeted.

He was very suave and sophisticated.

Look so brave and and almost a bit of a James Bond figure in terms of journalism dodging bullets tracking across the desert to get an exclusive and he was known for being able to get anyone to talk to him.

Where they were a criminal or or or a world leader or sometimes both and and he became incredibly successful, but

There was a floor his personality and that was at he always did whatever it took to get the story and a lot of and actually that's a good thing for a journalist, but I think would that taken to an extreme it, can I can really lovely to a Legacy of a dark Legacy of a man of great charm and ambition but also did he became controversial figures in British charts on that was based on his proximity to Hitler it gave him unrivalled access, but what was the cost of the cost was the what do you pay for that and I think every journalist with your local journalist the national whatever type you always have to have to think about.

How do you make sure you continue to get the next interview and you can't exactly what you want because you cos you always need access to that news and he talked to the extreme.

Whereby rather than challenging Hitler and and and asking the questions that would have.

He was he was essentially a a stenographer who just wrote down what he said repeat it in the British people and that was really useful because every major crisis 1930s he was depending on Britain not coming in and not coming in strong l to push back at him and so it's very useful to have those articles whereby he could put his case to the British pub, why is a man of Peace why this was the last two the transgression you would do and while it let's just leave it and and we'll have to have peace now and how did George Ward Prowse first meet Hitler so he already famous German that he had lots of interviews of people like Mussolini Doritos O2 here already had a reputation as one of the the big interview for the male world exclusive by that point and then he managed to get the interview in late 1933 the first interview and after that he was pretty much the land and bleeding.

Joyce when when they announce that there was a an air force against the the rules of the Treaty of Versailles to tell him when they they started conscription German army which is a really alarming thing Hitler invited him on his playing and gave him an interview where he sent me to look this isn't something to be worried about and then with the rhineland when they're remilitarise that which was the biggest crisis since the first world war Hitler and during my loan for an hour on that night, so but having a private conversation actually will Christ came to Britain to set of the office and then coming back with a response so so really close at all of the major crisis points how to use you hit was he said yes cynical gelatin you have to stay close to power or was he a fascist sympathiser all both think you can be both and I think he was he definitely had extreme far-right views whether he was.

Store fascist of Jason they would definitely have used but also he was a cynic and and and usually ambitious and he wants told her a young German is coming always do whatever it takes to be close to power and and what one is one of the most intelligent rice and journalism is he is now coming to talk to about how can always make a compromise when they when they have access to powerful people because I powerful people always have the power to stop talking to you and that can be due into quite destructive behaviours nothing all prices courier can a warning to the Germans today with actually the dark road that short-term ambition can lead you have a warning to the rest of us as well around we've created a system.

Whereby we we value access to power over the holding of that power to account and there's a question but Society about the role of displays that that will prices go really really poses to us.

The time as it became clear that Hitler another Nazis were using him to get their message across to British people was it causing a 4 or as each interview was published were there people at the time saying hold of this isn't journalists and this is performing a quite different role.

The less advanced than it was very much are moving evolving profession at the time and also think this idea that we sometimes have that there was a golden age of journalism never existed in reality that but I think there was quite a lot of British people actually were quite sympathetic to the Nazis or at least thinking let's just let them do what they want in your up and we'll do about a peaceful way, but there was particularly on the left a lot of people who is severely criticised him and called him a fascist.

He was called out for that and at the time these interviews were published in the Daily Mail it was under Lord Rothermere who is known.

Of Hitler how did the Daily Mail approach the work that Ward price was doing how did it for you in the tricky thing about working out? What George Price's daughter prices was that because he was only man enough to want to keep in love a good book so so looking at your house.

We covered Moseley for example.

He was calling for a Moseley to become prime minister and to the same.

This is the future but then rather there was overseeing in business with the time and the minute that Rothermere decided that he didn't want to be a business with no more because he was it advertised as won't be coming to boot after the violence the blackshirts will price drop drop to my hot cold, so there was a real for the cynicism there and he was writing what they want him to write and and him and in lockstep, who's the moment in the book where ward-prowse is described as Hitler's friend, so do we have any on?

Meaning of whether this relationship went beyond moment swearing interview and I use into an inverted commas was taking place was ward-prowse in touch with Hitler another Nazis outside of those moments.

Where are the opportunity was with presents, so it's not 100% clear the answer to that but the sense I get is it was pretty much professional relationship with most of the Nazis that was going he had a particular from this phone.

I spend a lot of time together and you got the impression of each other end did when did his relationship happened to the relationship once we went to War The Great cynics that you was here and and the minute that the Hitler took the rest of Czechoslovakia and broke the promises we made the previous.

Yeah all price of went from being a little pro-nazi booster.to to the most impact of landing on so you could imagine so and actually he ended up.

Broadcasting TV licence and an actually Hitler was quite understanding of it and said you wouldn't understand you doing what you doing for this country was Goebbels was more and more upset and seems take it personally feeling betrayed with only a few seconds, but did you ever Express regret never expect any regret and the rest of his life and the book is interviewing Hitler whichever? Thank you.

Very very much for coming on the media show as we get towards the end of our program.

Thank you.

Very much is he was saying is called interviewing Hillary is it out on Amazon Waterstones bookshops? Thank you very much for coming on Sandy to all of our guests.

Thanks to all of you for listening will be back next week at the usual time.

Bye bye.

Bye.

I'm Kate lamble and from BBC Radio 4.

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