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It's the only thing I'm watching for quite a while 6 new episodes of Black Mirror now playing on Netflix I wasn't m club on your house Matt Deegan on the show today the Curious Case of fictional expert is AI driving a credibility problem for saucy academics and meteorite and Maggie Brown and broadcaster Alexander discuss this plus the right of branded podcasts that also on the programme Ofcom puts the what's on Radio 2 spin-off Phil Riley from boom Radio Theatre assess the damage podcast festival cross wires getting new creative director owner dino soft is here to real and in the quiz we enter the Frequency Funhouse that's all happening in this edition of the media club come on in.
So I can buy Komedia club, lovely to see you both Alex you made into the club well done your in your safe.
You're on the list, but who else do you like to add? I would like to add this week especially Craig mazin and Neil druckmann to the club.
They are the showing as co-creators and lead Writers on the wonderful TV series The Last wishes, just been recommissioned for a third season despite the second not even having launched and this leads to a bigger topic for me which I know I've your produce hair off repeatedly what's exciting about this for me is as a huge.
Love a video games.
We finally now seems we've entered an era where Studios have worked out that rather than trying to smash a Square Peg in a round hole and take the ever more complex narratives the video games have now up to 20 + hours of storytelling into a noun.
Hit movie we are now getting quality TV series which do Justice to these video games The Last of Us being an example Fallout the which had it looks set to continue and we've got a God of War Mass Effect Gears of War TV shows coming out in the next couple of years so I think as well as they're being geniuses in their field.
I think what you're doing is setting a new standard for video game adaptation are welcome addition to the last of us a video game TV series the people who played the game like to the TV series as well.
Yes and very smartly the creator of the videogame Neil druckmann was brought in video game IPS I mean just need to look at borderlands.
This year was borderline on watch above so it's going to continue but it seems like they finally worked out the sweets formula.
Make good video games Minecraft movie which I have not caught yet.
It's Shrewsbury game perhaps not the greatest movie but very successful.
Have you seen the footage that's doing the rounds at the moment.
I forgot to put the heads on your this is this is even crazier.
This is in America and audiences.
Young males primarily going absent lenaerts when Jack Black otters iconic lines from the game but to the point that Theatre Stafford ringing to quit because they are checking popcorn around the throne drinks other people looks like absolute carnage and engaged kids with the movies for the first time that is a real positive on what looks like ultraviolence Maggie
Or in such a terrible time that I just cannot avoid talking about the politics trump and all the rest of it, but my first you said I can have to yes all because of this time.
I find myself in one of my old friends Jonathan Miller hoover some people remember from Mabel he still writes for The Spectator very sort of controversial funny writer but he also before that works on the Sunday Times and he did an awful lot of work with murder, Connor murdocks in the launching of Sky television and and all the rest of it that happened in the late sort of 890 m and I haven't to be one of his kind of friends.
I suppose you might say we both took part in this rather extraordinary cspan.
Live a long debate about the
Newspapers when they were big newspapers and anyway Sunday to my amazement.
He has brought out a book which is called the shock of the news and about a month ago.
He sent me a draught.
Copy to look at which I did save in one or two and but anyway today.
I got I got the news that it's been published and he is I think going to be quite an interesting person to look out for when I cannot remember the publisher now.
This is the awful thing so don't worry.
We'll take it out on the Sonos about some of the people who he work with and this of course includes Rupert Murdoch and the family and all of the was the Politics of that as well, and it is it is an incredibly good re, but it's a very irreverently discuss you find yourself laughing all the way through and he's a bit.
This is the funny thing about it who went to
And went to university Ann Arbor now quite a famous university for all sorts of reasons and I'm actually quite proud that he's brought it out.
So you were talking about the 1988 on C-SPAN if you live in London at the moment in fact broadcasting in this country is very heavily regulated on the brink.
I think of something like her a major expansion, but it won't come into effect until the mid 90s and we should be moving I think then towards perhaps doesn't also channel bn88 a bit like the Queen
Super posh that my second is formal serious really I've actually hardly been watching any proper television because I have just been so completely devastated really by the event of America I've got two daughters as you know and grandchildren live in America that the whole unbelievable thing that we're going through now and the election of basically somebody lunatic really so I have been reading and reading and reading and watching I'm watching watching and the person that I would like to nominate who probably will never ever see this dog is Edward Lewis who is the Financial Times of American editor who has been writing the most Direct and and hugely who's on target Collins and whether they make a difference.
He knows they won't make a difference because trump isn't going to read anything like that.
He goes on his own business, but he I mean that there is.
She probably know the derangement syndrome of the trump which is in 80 TDS which everybody's talking about but in his latest column.
He said yesterday that hasn't a clue about what he has Unleashed and that today there is a not a school a foreign policy that can explain his actions sensible people so I actually there many people I would actually nominate in the way that they've been trying to take down trump, but unfortunately it's not going to have any all-in-one Trump is emboldened and it's having quite chilly effect on on Preston making decisions about not adding people to the White House press pool.
Obviously as I'm thinking what he particularly likes to follow anyway, but is it does give you pause when you when you write a tourist like that doesn't it it does.
It's almost as if people are thinking that almost on the brink of some kind of americanizing fascism.
They're worried about the development of this not just janisol people in the know but just a targeting people who do not agree with you and I think I find to the sheer amount of just rude that they show this lack of complete kind.
I don't know what the word is humility I also find the attitude.
Will I find the American government attitude towards all sorts of things that it's not it's not even that you want your you're concerned about the way they seem not to go back garden, and let's turn it into a nice you know Plaza people to go sunbathing it is it's just the whole approach which I have never been so deeply short interesting soft Deborah Turness from from BBC News was saying is actually feel rough.
Play News Network trying to work out ways to deliver content to people because they are not going there turning off the news channels all their unsubscribing from from the value is still there to live in East and particularly.
I think in the States where people have their own facts and throat difficult to sort of cut through I was watching some of fox business news stocks.
I could have main Fox News will sort of ignoring all the the tariff issues, but the business travel had to sort of cover it but it's that's when reality is there a narrative such big changes with tariffs.
Even they had to cover it right.
Let's go onto first story of the week the press Gazette to be raining in the investigation into fake commentators Alex what's this one all about? This is this is a really fascinating article which I suggest everyone read but a teams to it seems.
Natural evolution something that was happening already basically, what is happening now is that there's a booming business which is PR companies offering up for a fee commentators on xz2 any Media outlet, but why pay for an actual commentator allsorts an actual commentator when you can just make sure no because that's what's happening around an investigation and found that at least one of these commentators who have been offering opinions on a variety of subjects across the board actually didn't exist and it was quite simply using a French GPT or at least I know that AI system to generate all the information.
They needed to give an opinion on x subject and then selling it to the outlet now.
Why is this happening? I'm well.
I mean you know if you're a journalist and you don't want to have to go and sauce I guess.
Latest opinion on this and as a PR company going off this this amount will sort them then that's your job done and you assume the responsibility don't like with the pr company doctor just make it I will also there's like a bit people singing all these quotes basically to get a link on a News website to go to give some Google juice back to the back to the article a bit of a Bad Name anyway over the years my worry about her voice on a stick when you can just make them up what I mean.
This is a problem.
I think the first problem is a I get things wrong a lot the number of times.
I had to correct chat GPT and that's the wrong and I'm sorry you're right and then I've gone don't worry.
That's ok, because I'm terrified in the future when it becomes sentient it will go to you.
So there is things can be wrong in somebody's commentators these fictional commentators.
Stating on and healthy things to have an effect on people but I mean this has been going on for a while.
I mean it certainly in the film Street will remember bunker 15 the other the pr website that basically paid critics who were registered critics on Rotten Tomatoes to give glowing reviews to films to stop this score from rotten to fresh so this has been existing for a while and now so much.
Just gone Davis sort of turning channel is an early on the news compilation on online on the charity lots and lots of news stories and need lots and lots of coverage and they mention things like response sorting this article that would be great services were they will need someone to talk about.
Npr's can respond research and they but they have to show that they're being productive.
I found the whole thing actually a very very interesting because I've been trying to work out what I think about AI I was sort of hoping this may I don't know if you if you took passes of reuters seminar bad couple of weeks ago and I was trying to believe what a lot of the people there who are internationally selected the same which seems to suggest that it may I hadn't really made an impact and I didn't quite understand how it was working and I thought maybe it is quite benign but this this particular article and the fact it comes so close to home the UK press Gazette how many absolutely I was up to Siemens
I think the I'm just looking at Rob Rob Moore is the is the person as a journalist who did it and I'm with Dominic Ponsford and I think it would be really interesting to maybe have a further with him about it because you can only ever put so much into a recent article and there must be a lot more information building up, but they go to stuff you and started chasing them down for a long time are the commentators get a bad rap.
I don't know how much weight people genuinely attached to these opinions of Ronin from x I do think we live in an era.
So many different ways to get information reviews what people have tended to start to do is find someone they trust whether it's a YouTube channel to get there.
Particular journalist in newspaper magazine they keep returning to them once you realise who your opinions mesh with you who you trust you feel that authentic then you do return to them and all these other your tit bits of commentary here and there are just noise to you.
I think I think most people that discerning enough to me know.
What is real and what who then who I hope you're alright.
I've got that the adolescence full partner has created that is going back to anyway the misuse of online information and I'm not saying it's anywhere near that, but it would be nice to think not nice.
It seems to be important to know whether you are actually speaking to a proper person what you're not a lot of it pays interest of the speed of the media and
Disney to knock out these articles quickly his adoption service matches me with people that want to say it.
I grab.
I Give It A cursor disappeared and she said everything is all that's fine drop it in the pace of the pace of changes allowing his people to paper switch actually flourishing the weekly's and when I say floating some of them actually created by just people in villages.
Who may be there a child and the adding information and it's interesting that when you actually see what they're writing about.
It's about real things and I don't think that this kind of attempt to disguise that you're giving out information.
You know artificially as it were think it's reach then and I've been quite impressed actually with the quality of the of the local of the local press the good way in that some individuals can set up.
That previously would take taken a load of cash to to do the papers being sold in a particular.
I the village or town or small city whatever it is.
It's more difficult really to pull the wool.
I think over people who know what's what in a bit of a bit of the world a YouTube channel called cinema surgery and some one of these one of these algorithms saw the word surgery and so turn email which was generated cleared generated by a I am offering us a specialist to talk about a Zen pic and uses and it's like movies that is that that say I basically sourcing the word surgery and just sending out an email.
Ok.
Ofcom has blocked BBC Radio 2 spin-off from launching on.
They said would likely have an impact on Commercial operators a particular significance boom radio from being radio is the CEO Phil Riley so it wasn't you a licence fee payers will get a lovely BBC Radio 2 spin-off station and you've told me that you've got them.
Yes.
Yes, it's all my fault.
It's all my fault little bit before the launcher has been off station for the over 50s station.
That's been around the flat with this done a pretty well.
I've come to the consultation and this week.
They did a report saying that the reminded not to allow it to go forward.
Obviously I guess that's the right decision all of the Rational evidence if you look at all the rest of evidence in the rules that they have to work by it was a
Decision that they took based on what was in front of them and the structure of how they got to make these decisions when I look at that convinced for quite a lot of the BBC stations, they did allow that was ready 3 on wind Radio 1 dance and Radio 1 anthems, but your one particularly, they didn't like because it affected the others affecting global and Bauer they were such a big enough and ugly enough to look after themselves.
We you surprised by that but actually it was more than that you existed that that's why they blocked it to things what were the first of which was I don't think there's a free stations.
They felt were going to be as bigger entrance into the marketplace.
So they fell anybody could have coped with them whether or not they were part of a group or not, but you're right the biggest station that the BBC had proposed to launch was going to affect one of the few independent radio station.
That's making a Mark in the in the industry, so I think it's a combination of those two things Radio 2 extra being quite a big new entrant and as being particularly vulnerable because you're an independent not part of group having said that I know that the radio centres view always was actually he doesn't matter whether a radio station is part of a group to an independent.
What mass is is it going to be damaged by the presence of a new BBC station 20% I think their numbers were a little low and in fact one of the reasons.
Why they were little lowestoft.com themselves didn't believe the BBC when the BBC said one of the benefits radio to Radio 2.
Extra is it will be promoted on Radio 2 itself which is like a super promotional access for this new radio?
Wheat up the BBC at their word in the BBC said they could get you 21 million hours delivered by this service off Constable with slightly ended up being slightly lower than that 15 in 17 million probably accounts for a big chunk of the gap between how badly affected outcome thought we'd be and an hour numbers which were slightly higher in the high 22 mid thirties whatever the number was it was a significant number a significantly negative effect and I think of Comber right on the basis that to say hang on Wheeler we've got a job here not to mess up fair and effective competition and that's what this would do.
I hope see you happy with the result I mean this is another example that this is sort of stuck a little bit BBC with increasing a younger audiences increasing on it says 4c 2DS which they said this would have
CQC 2DS for older audiences and what can BBC2 are there to be universal for everyone have tried to do something here it's been pushed back probably reason book the BBC have some flexibility to try and just try and grow and develop.
They should always have the flexibility to grow and develop, but I think the privileged position that there in one day today.
Try and be innovative and to be honest and older station playing ABBA and Elvis is Just Not That innovative.
You know they they need to try and do a bit harder.
I would say in terms of outside the box if they want to get stuff cleared and I've gone to the uncertainty of this sort of freezing investment decisions for for radiator pipes reason maybe having to pull back Services if the BBC was allowed to get everything that suggested does it mean more new things for for Boom now.
You've been know that this has happened.
I think we'll be looking very very seriously at try.
Expand our portfolio we were not in the position that global and Bowser in where even preemptively they decided Istikhara load more radio station because I got the way with all the resources to do that.
We clearly couldn't expand whilst this was hanging overhead now.
It's not hanging overhead.
Yeah, we'll be thinking very very seriously about doing doing something expensive extra, but they were doing sort of what the government and Ofcom want them to do they have to do that television and other things which I regardless of a mega thing that they have to keep doing and at the other end of the sea, they are you just look at the program.
Very popular and they're probably old people just really I'm doing brilliantly and kind of age of dying seems to be going after all the time.
It's not going to fall away that much I have a very old fashioned view about the BBC which has annoyed people but hardly I was being asked a few months ago about 6 months ago.
Would I do join yet another book about what you do about the BBC and I kind of repeating my position which is that I actually do believe in a universal service.
Do you think probably a form of licence fee is necessary? I don't think it should be passed over simply as a state that I will somehow get grants.
It needed to have a degree of independence all that all those things and that we would be feeling if we lost the BBC that something really important had gone out of being if you like British
And I was so tired.
What about you? So I thought you're so fine.
I don't mind because I actually think that and I can't write a piece and saying it's all dreadful and we shouldn't have it and you know it's charging people all this money.
They don't want to connect number on paying it anymore etc.
But death is inevitable the younger generation who simply are not watching.
I had a very interesting conversation with somebody works at ITV who said the majority of their content is actually watched on YouTube and I think the younger people.
Yes interestingly increasingly families now because they're good because you have the Smart TV is it because obviously the YouTube app is sitting right there and if you know let's watch this I want to watch it on YouTube families are going to start gravitating towards YouTube and the problem that any streaming service like ITV XO BBC iPlayer has that you?
Have a good Netflix doesn't have is the fact that those drinks have this universal appeal in this Mariah TV content.
Where is factually the people who would use ITV XA people who are already watching ITV 1 new viewers to your by pushing the envelope isn't going to happen in the viewing figures for ITV it shows back when they have made a piece of original programming that wouldn't sit naturally on ITV1 480px.
It is being you so much less than a similar kind of programming that channel for YouTube channels around channel brand podcast stories of the week.
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Without changing your career, so it's teaching further education to find out more about this with a few champagne corks fibre and the media industry this week as Ventures are launch.
The new Super Indies been created in the audio Sektor with listen platform Media Goldhawk and folding pocket combining to become what they call a podcasting supergroup with over 80 of all these companies and Investment from pod XT minority stake in one of the production companies in adolescence the Investment in all made up will include the opening of an office Liverpool it comes as rumours of a second series of the drama, I have been circulating where the Crossed why is festival has just announced the Radio 1 DJ Greg James is going to be a creative director co-founder of the festival and of purpose of Monaco podcast pressure company joins us from Sheffield hi dino.
Hi mate.
How you doing?
Delete your creative efforts of crosswise, so great came last year.
I long to cross wires as kind of one of my mates, but also did a lot of impromptu show one of the things with cross wires as we have Big Show's like the Adam Buxton podcast this year.
We come help.
I sexted my boss but we want to do the kind of impromptu events that you had to be there for and Greg house today show with Alice Levine called now.
That's what I call podcast in which was basically made up on the hoof and was their journeys in podcasting and he had such a great time and all around afterwards and he you know took some selfies and he came to the after parties and he came to the fringe and afterwards.
He just said I love this so much.
There's nothing like this.
Can I come again next year and we went thinks Alice Levine who's my other co-founder and we just like to know what she just wants to come on board officially and be part of the journey.
3-years and growing the festival and he said yes straight away which is great a podcast about 70 of them.
How do you think that? She's a radio person audio person? Is it just the medium? Do you think that makes them excited? You are a radio person.
Is it just about years? Is it not about the I think I think about crosswire specifically there's nothing there's obviously lots of festivals and events that you and I go to my and kind of windowless rooms with a white wine.
We talk about CPM rates, but we didn't think that was not around which had the energy of kind of like Edinburgh or Glastonbury or hay for festivals where it's fans actual listen is getting together and I think one of the things the Greg really liked about it was that sense of community is quite a solitary experience listen to podcasts to listen in on the dog walk or doing.
Playing or in bed even but there's more and more so we're seeing this increasingly with you know his politics playing Wembley or Miss Me playing Hackney Empire lots of people are keen to get together and Experience podcast with other listeners and that sense of community and I think that's what we really captured about cross wires and what makes Greg really excited as you say is a kind of audio nuts and you know with tailenders which who knows we might even see them up this year, but it's about getting in amongst it with the fans and that's really what he loves about it and that's what we will catch you later.
So what are the dates for a cross wires this year, so it's the 4th to the 6th of July this summer in Sheffield I don't know if we mention that yet and we really take over the city for the weekend.
So we've announced help ice is my boss that sold out in pretty much immediately actually no such thing as a fish also headlining and then we going to be announcing the next Wave of big acts in the summer really big podcast in there on Tuesday
Next Tuesday the 15th of you sign up a cross wires live at the website you'll be able to find out about the rest of the lineup and sign up for 4 tickets and we've already got Greg working so we announces involvement today already you might if you're working at a podcast company if you make a podcast you might get Greg James calling you up hustling trying to get you online at this year, so don't don't be surprised if you call from Greg sounds great.
Thanks Alex you've got a new show starting bringing you podcast which I feel very jealous of I'm not saying I don't know why do here very happy to lovely to be with you for some water to the side of me, but I think you'll sort of beaten me this this is a slight on the wonderful surroundings in which we sit and we both know that this is at the upper end of a podcast studio having a recorded in various.
Sawdust locations, but yes I am hosting a new podcast at at the Savoy called The Savoy Originals and it is wonderful and slightly I knew where the little ridiculous to be welcoming guests into the Royal sweets of the Savoy Hotel to sit down and record a podcast and yet that is what I am doing that water that you would be replaced with some laurent-perrier champagne has this wonderful history of creative staying there so collaborated on This podcast which sees me interviewing people at the very top of their game in numerous Fields whether it's the the culinary world.
Where is entertainment whether it's Sport with genuinely achieved hugely original things in those feels so for example episode of lunch there today seems me sit down with the wonderful.
And talk through his career.
It was just passing him to hear about in the 90s him watching Steve Coogan on TV idolizing Steve Coogan and wanting a career while himself at the time was a presenter on a cable shopping channel only to then fast forward 15 years and he's obviously on the metal masterpiece the trip as a close friend of hearing Gordon Ramsay talk about how despite running so many Michelin star restaurants.
He doesn't enjoy eating in his own restaurant because his background is from working class on ringing and the pomp and ceremony of being waited on by people sit on easily with you Gordon Ramsay and Brydon two examples of worked hard for a long time to take to get to Essex SS4 unite some of these guests that you think I actually thinking champagne.
Is there a sort of secret of their success is it just hard work luck does come up but genuinely my uncle like I actually I was doing stand up in about 7 people at the Edinburgh festival and 3 of those people happened to be producers looking for new presenters and that was how my career started and that was pure chance you know serendipity.
So yes people who are lucky.
I work quite hard, but even that example you've got to the point where you are.
Happy to go on stage and you organise ability to do it and you've got there and you're doing your thing so that you are in a place to them be lucky.
They seem to be produced as well proud of you.
Yeah, I agreed I think that that comes back to this idea of of self-belief and I guess fix skin to a certain I mean to you.
Using an example of Germany talks about being forged in the fires of Marco Pierre White and how so many people fell by the wayside in simply couldn't hack the intensity of that space and how he actually thrived on it and he learnt so much and feeds you and drives.
You more than it drives other people and next week.
I think on the show winner Layton Williams I know it's obviously he just won the Olivier Titanic we have to have it.
Just a circle back to something I would say at the start about 2 about cinema the fact that Titanic which is if you don't know this theatre production which is a retelling of the events of the Titanic the film The Titanic the film Titanic and told by Celine Dion who hijacked the Museum tour and retails it through her.
And light William actually has played in his won the Olivia for being the iceberg.
I am that play and what excites me about that is shit cinema is getting more more homogenizing it seems like high end Theatre and it's still a place where you get unique off the wall ideas that have been rewarded agree with that totally yes fantastic performance after the break.
When will be entering the store is your discover at the national Army Museum won't just tell you about the lives of soldiers.
They will tell you about your own because their service has shaped our world whether you're on a solo mission or bringing the troops enjoying inspiring day out with.
Thought provoking exhibitions and interactive galleries if you feel your lifetime that you didn't know you were laying The Foundations for so much more take your own site skills into your local college and train tomorrow's trades because to you it's same old but of them.
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I just left the media quiz let's see how much attention that you've been paying to the media news this week quiz is called back to life back to reality three stories where the subject at the centre.
Back to a screen or speaker knee you you just tell me who or what they are very easy you're picking up.
It's the best of three buzzing with your name if you know the answer so she will say Maggie you say let's play to the White House yes the associated Press correct.
Yes a judge is all the trump white house to live access restrictions following this is a golf of America controversy.
They call it by the name is quite a while lol for Mexico any of the instructions of the courts will be strangers rejecting the judicial came from the AP little bit strange.
Presenters launch this week's trial launching a podcast everyone's doing this week 8 call frequency Funhouse featuring different guests with own story to tell if their lifetime in local would you do a podcast based on your XFM years who is completely there was an XFM documentary that came out of the station very upset not have been asked to hear talking head all that but yes yes it was it was a crazy time.
I miss you babe.
Like a show by Cher recap within just last for a couple of to an episode of it.
Which Sheffield based drama is returning to our screens? Yes, have you watched? Did you watch threads at you know what I did but very quickly my 80s was to buy things like this.
Hope I read Raymond Briggs when the wind blows.
Oh yes and after reading that as a child in the 80s my biggest fear.
I used to look out of my bedroom window in emergency and mushroom cloud on the horizon realising I had seconds to live so I find it very interesting that now have all time to bring this back is potential reboot of threads, whether it's a film or like you going to be a TV series by films are winner congratulations.
As a special prize you get to do some research and specs of them documentary black people.
I keep up with what you up to.
I just the Four Crosses main thing yes, yes, it's all on my Instagram at Alex same for you.
Yes, I'm in writing something which I wish I hadn't abused to do so I am a little bit frightened.
I think it's the word of the project may but I hope that I will regain my kind of normal drive as you say it's very important centre.
I shall I should complete my task.
We like that.
Sell.
We look forward to it.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
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Hello where the hosts of staying relevant in this episode is brought to you by Black Mirror only on Netflix I cannot wait for the new season.
I've no idea what to expect.
I love it so much are there a brand new stories Common People better are placing USS callister into infinity eulogy and hotel Ribery have been looking at although.
I think about common people with me mate and get ready because the cast of the new season is wild starring the likes of Christian malossi Paul Giamatti Emma Corrin Rashida Jones and Peter Capaldi this is going to be amazing.
It's the only thing I will be watching for for quite a while 6 new episodes of Black Mirror now playing only on Netflix on here and my podcast on car is currently sponsored by Virgin Media broadband ever had that moment when you're in the middle of a juicy chat on a video call on my god.
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