Read this: Gregg Wallace... and matters outstanding

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I'm your house map to undercoat found a fencing faily on the rise and rise of rupaul's drag race at the joys of forming an Indian the 90s and taking on the Church of England on the programme unfinished business at the BBC with.

Causing all sorts of problems at have they got to grips with the issues of graphs write a Maggie Brown's house this morning in the media quiz at we cover and other turbulent week in newsrooms.

That's all happening in this edition of the media Club Club before we get into the big stories of the week.

I'd like to ask I guess who they would like to induct into her into her number is Roger if you would you like to add Stein brilliant book about his family Hitler Stalin mum and dad.

He writes his fantastic column in the times and this week.

He said money has just begun it to sent to the political throne and we may not be able to stop it and what he's talking about there is of course the story that Elon Musk is going to give 100 million allegedly to Nigel Farage reform party.

That will be allowed on the present law through Twitter exits UK subsidiary because of course was that if you was trying to play playlist money into into broadcast.

I wouldn't get anywhere you won't be allowed to bet on bud mean on social media you can do it like so damn is always being very perceptive about changes that are going to come.

It's a big one.

It's time.

I believe him ok.

Well.

He's very welcome and the book is Hitler and Stalin Mum and Dad and basic to the story is that during the Second World War II Jewish antecedents one ended up being imprisoned by Stalin and the other ended up effectively by Palomas wiped out by Italy but the two stories in parallel them up on what it does let you know my generation was bought of thinking in his 60s progress was inevitable was wouldn't happen again.

It's all the parts.

You read that done it, but you realise history maybe Circular

It does rhyme a Maggie I talk about books we have your book behind you on display for the last few months at least a couple of sales sales sales website publishes, Bloomsbury so I wait to get some maybe min school.

That's good and also Channel 4 had to chip in a bit because the second book went on for so long because there's no resolution about what was going to happen to it.

So yeah, I'm not complaining from who would you like to add to a club rolls this week, but I was thinking and this isn't really very mediate.

I know that Damian Lewis because I so enjoyed his Henry VIII this Sunday and I kind of couldn't believe really but this man will sort of picking up a tiny baby at one point and then you know plotting to Castle someone's head but last night so I had the great pleasure.

Turn on Newsnight Victoria Derbyshire this of course she was interviewing over Gregg Wallace in fact Shannon Kyle who has a big splash in the papers as well today, but I haven't read the paper so I listen to this interview and I thought although I think the story has been overblown and it should have been on so many front pages.

I thought that but I also thought that Shannon Kyle speaking out so clearly she is a writer and author and you know she can put words together.

Well.

I think she's I think she's she's done the business ghost Gregg Wallaces if they do this probably speak to them.

Why do we sign them and then subsequently you no come out this wider if they didn't sign them and they told people immediately what had happened and it complain about.

Problems with be stopped early on but he's in the post that you have to let you have to say I belong disclosure agreement to get any of the work.

We have a choice with you sign appointment also that the point she did this extensive interviews to do this book.

She was actually pretty broke and she she's currently a stronger position.

I know I think she's spoken out quite far into the store in fact and has held herself back.

Well.

I don't know if she's getting paid at all, but I think it I think she did the right thing and I would have broken and on I don't like breaking you would have had to have to do the book to get the work.

I think it to the club roles we can ask about if you join the club, I'm sticking with Greg Wallace days on Roger how's the BBC food with the latest Talent scandal? Well if I try and put the BBC I would say actually he doesn't work for the BBC rectly he works for Inter

Companies always has word for Channel 5 as well, and this is the real problem that when you are you're the publisher was to BBC is so you have responsibility, but you're not actually in the production and you rely upon executive producers independent companies to basically look out for this sort of thing on the other hand and Industry at the moment with lots of people are unemployed where in depends.

What is a desperate to survive and if they know a star is wanted.

They're going to well.

They're not going to actually tell the Star offer whatever you got a fundamental bounce power there and if your research or run out on a 3-month contract.

Do you think you're gonna stand up so it's a really the television this is this is happened.

One of these that pops up with to talk about the same thing.

Don't me in that allowed to get away with it and there's always gonna change this scenario with my much stuff with the problem with some problems you could spot I mean.

Wallace is a very talented man from working class background done very well to get where he is, but we've got their basic on the basis of banter.

You could see is on the edge.

What is very strong with him very disappointing you don't do that Gregor crossing the line if you do this year out now this done that now whether the BBC is responsible for it partly responsible, but it's inheriting a problem that everywhere in the industry.

I hope you just always hope that this will be a Turning Point but you know it's going to get but it's not going to stop for the BBC you've got a couple of things coming up over Russell Brand and DJ Tim Westwood there waiting in the Wings there will be more was also happened in the budget have got cut call Patrick still expecting the same product.

Kids are working insane hours.

It's very very difficult out there whether that can be changed.

I don't know the shortcut shortcut to rating shortcuts to mark the shows are we in because of the situation and we have to tell them to even more what they do engineers.

Do you know if you're on indeed and you know that there's a big star was really wanted by getting permission permission if you work with the style return to work with the stars.

So I think it has to start of the 12th through the BBC but they do need the cooperation of independence.

I've been recently to find out the somebody was very high in the industry operated the top in the top echelons when working as an indie was indulgent not listening to complaints that we're coming may Nottingham my sexual harassment, but other things because it might affect the problem is the company this is an industry-wide problem the BBC should be.

Sample but it needs everybody to work with it at Maggie and Kirsty Wark was one of the first people to come and talk about it certain age Wallace refer to that group a group that does have maybe more power than others as well as well.

What about talk about it too and they going to be the ones to to fix this problem? I mean I really don't know one of my great advantages and couldn't stand him because I absolutely loads of all cooking shows so apart from Jamie Oliver I'm not actually a massive expert on his style because I just couldn't yes, it does look a bit like as he rather sadly said that middle-aged powerful women ganging up on him and he is obviously.

Side of his time I think he's had a really good run.

I don't think he's going to be he hasn't done anything which would appear to lead to any kind of judicial kind of follow if I was him.

I would assume that he has a decent pension in his 60s.

He clearly has another wife.

I think with relatively youngest children if he has managed to amass a fortune then.

I think you should go quietly and stop beating the women who have for one reason or another been ok.

Not a sorted or anything but have been to allegations of assault, but he never watch and what he says on the studio floor is not perhaps.

What always makes it to the show and of course he's never be picked up on this clearly.

Because I mean Roger said that the truth I mean I know they can be ambivalent and it can also be the case that produces want to sort of basically Foster the the Tallington and not sort of undermine them, but I would have thought really that it's pretty clear that it's it's a mystery judgement.

It's his personal no longer really fits into the modern kind of standards of broadcasting so much so much depends on the Producers behind programs.

You know that I know that everybody knows that we also know for in the media.

We have to rely on on I certainly have in my past incarnations as media.

I just ringing to say you do rely on The Unseen sub and the Editors who look at your copy.

Call you in and do you really mean that and they save you often from Miss judgements, because you're under pressure.

You know you're you're trying to make.

The program why you're trying to write the peace that you think is going to be outstanding and you go too far, but there's another problem here which is the BBC's always been to buy off him another said it's out of touch with the working class do enough a Gregg Wallace you could see was for them.

He was obviously coming from working class background little work for us and he's very challenging about that not many people can do that usually get up there a new one because they're unusual that need to be watched by morning as it was normal people to hold them in nothing wrong with having a rough Diamonds if you want that all people with no but people who can actually connect with working class people and I understand what the BBC's problem is but when I sit for example in Wales and I'm watching ITV Wales on ITV or BBC Wales or whatever all the local radio.

There are plenty of people who are able to speak in in dialux or in Uno with their own accent.

It comes across perfectly well.

I think he just wasn't being taken to one side and just calm down a bit because if any of these things are true.

It is a bit much for the things.

I thought he was doing initially I was appealing to the auntie work in a disastrous career threatening statement.

I thought it was trying to appeal.

This is woke you and you could see your number of newspapers the mayor of the Telegraph you can see GB news and son and took already almost had to take his side because there's an easy way that in a minute BBC etc.

Etc, and then he made that statement about women of a certain age.

Well.

That is all that just end it all and so everybody descended upon him.

He just needs to shut up for 3 or 4 years develop an interest in something else and I might be way back, but the BBC also cannot afford to lose any of these celebrity chef MasterChef shoes.

The BBC struggling for hits everywhere is not producing new hits if can't afford to let this one go so it won't work just before we move on and he mentioned it earlier reports locking not come out to Russell Brand one.

That's still outstanding but the BBC the Tim Westwood one, which I still want to be busy person this week who thought it was going to be out this week and I said this thing is going to be out over last 6-months.

It's going to be a lot of Explosions that come that come from that which is basically staff reported it BBC don't like it.

I don't understand a lot about it in detail, but I think the difference is this from my understanding he's inside the BBC this is not an independent producer for most of it is operating within the organisation and therefore it all to be easier for the organisation to stop but you can see what's going on there.

You know because Tim Westwood even though he's white associated himself with a lot of black music getting day.

And the BBC the middle class BBC people like my side I used to be done exactly understanding lady love this is Tim Westwood he understands and they're allowed to run a bit on their own and they're not supervise and also we can't afford to lose this audience because we're not getting it any other way and we told by everybody we can't we got to be in touch with that audience so you can see how it would happen, but potentially could be more serious because he's in the building well.

Let's keep an eye on that one.

I think we might see him next in the next few weeks and TV trade body packed reveal this week that international production resumed a drop off from the US Maggie where's all this money coming from.

What is coming from broadcasters you can afford the initiative is with places where that advertising is recovering.

It doesn't seem necessary to be the case for us in the UK I mean.

It's very welcome that there was a report.

Just a few months ago, which showed that 68% of the UK independent or dependant the employed producers and other people in the television Media film basically unemployed so if this is the case and if it if it's going to bed then I would be feeling very much more relieved for the whole areas of being for catered.

I mean you could you go along the M4 you'll see new Studios come here.

They love to make stuff for everything else what has disappeared or is disappearing or all those if you like documentary series of British things her this will happen a bit but the larger disappearing history.

Isn't too bad a presenter one and presenter standing for the building and reproducing.

What is that? You've written in the book beforehand original journalism is disappearing so although if you like the revenues may be going up in a business sense in a creative sense when out having large dezerter.

Opening is doing a lot of you know if you want to know about Yorkshire want to know about want to know about the Tower of London they're doing masses off quite simple but actually quite what's the producer and he was a big gap in the middle, so it works very well on the reality and that's to make it on the Premium to do a very good job on style stuff things in the middle is where we've lost a lot of activity because broadcasters that brought the hits that they want to need to be a warrant.

This is what Public Service Broadcasting should be in part about to identify what the market can do until identify what the market can't do what I desperately hope over the next two years when women to BBC charter and the licence we had to replace with his we don't start with the BBC we start with Public Service Broadcasting cos it should involve channel for which magazine about anybody else? What do we want going forward from Public Service broadcast? What's the best way of delivering it BBC I think probably should be in there, then what you pay for it? But we start at the bottom and we don't have the licence review I want me there is a review that is going to take place about exactly this.

How you how you put the Public Service Broadcasting Ethos and mission together, but I'm going to be a deal between the BBC and the government what about a wider discussion.

I think it is about that.

I mean it is about the I mean ITV is one very good example.

Should it be up for sale we don't know or not but the other option is that then?

Corporation which we have seen in sunset in some areas in it doesn't have one what is Channel 4 I can't find it.

What about the religion? What about science? What about all of those things it on the hole in and not done by the by the Netflix is of this world what we want our children to learn for example of a learning about how to be very careful to identify sources of information.

They can now believe almost anything as result of the social media.

What do we think the public service broadcasters can do about how can I work with schools? How can I work with university? We need this debate instead.

We got BBC under great pressure having lost one 43% of its value over the last 15 years in terms of spending and it's trying to create understandably of the last government a business models to make sure it's survivors a big business mean what a public service, but you need to get there about things in the

BBC should do that broadcasting is that is that about doing the popular thing is it a market failure argument? That's the role of the party market failure because sometimes but it is gone just define public service by market failure, but you can ask about for example original one of place where do they start how what options? Do you have to tell stories about their communities directly at the weekend and also have that serendipity.

I mean who would have thought that serious about detectorists made on a Shoestring in East Anglia would be popular around the world, but you have to you couldn't and nobody's going to pretend that they had his bed that but you have to create an environment and we having the part where that sort of experiment can be done and occasionally gold will be found as it did it was in the detectorists.

I'm feeling a bit more optimistic than you because I think.

You always have been and still alive, but I think but we have had this time last year with conservative still in do you remember there was an enterprising the licence fee and then the the amount that was due was cut so it was a great day and we have a very sympathetic culture secretary for the first time for ages about you know in Public Service Broadcasting we also have somebody who's a chair with the BBC that isn't magno government talking about the role of Public Service Broadcasting and I would have thought there's some reason to optimistic as everybody looks around and sees what what countries are Nations and parts of the world.

Do when they don't have a media that can address the whole.

In in a way that the distrusted there is a real role for public and they can find it.

I am absolutely convinced.

I'm not a negative person like you a better government position for discussing the future of a broadcast number would have been 2 years ago.

We are like you've got a big changes with 12-bit.

Does it remain a UK company or not? Is there any public what's a desire and Channel 4 programme was it has been renewed? It's had its licence renewed.

We can have that discussion well.

I think she's quite clear that the Conservative Party would like to have got rid of them and they knew they couldn't they like to get rid of the licence with the new did the short-term because all the alternatives will work at the moment.

So what they did was squeeze it and then really this squeeze it and they the very few people in the conservative government would be sympathetic to the ID of an

Intervention in that way well, that's change but also within such a dreadful economic situation, where will need to spend on defence because of problems in the Health Service education so the idea that has been a massive increase in the licence is for the burt, but what that has to what we have to do now and I have to be a debate to convince people that public service is worth having and identify those areas that we want what am I quizzes the BBC the way I understand it is in making the necessary cuts that it has to make in terms of money.

It has been consulted the first by public about what should be cut excitement would be once we start the consultation with would never end yeah, but you look at for example the World Service BBC One correspondent in China it's pulled out its corresponding from Taiwan it's not massive numbers increasing numbers of people use people in America can make money in 30 million lb of you money from the government for the world service help.

Will help but but it is will only slow down what's been happening.

I mean we hopefully hopefully and I think the problem of tourists to support this as well.

We may well get to a situation where the world services.net funded separately again and where there's a proper discussion about where we should be the only thing you can't remember invests in America or liking in Westminster the more store appear on screen on an air because you invested people if you only have one person in China and also they stuck in the she you ain't going to get stories out of argue with the world's most important country we going to have to select committees one on find a fez and one on culture actually looking at this problem.

It isn't as bad as you think I know the amount of money.

You're talking about is a small but the fact is that the mood has changed that they know the wind has changed changed Direction and I actually think it could be a whole lot worth of course the world service.

Have a reinforcement of its role, so does news and current affairs and so does the other Public Service Broadcasting areas and I had to say as well.

I am very best buy some of the attempts ITV has made to make programming including obviously we know one of them the the Post Office but it goes on commissioning interesting programming dramas and it also I can say this because I've been watching a lot of it in Wales it does cover areas outside England outside of London I think pretty well in difficult in difficult conditions particularly over the next 12-months stay with us in the moment.

We try by Fenton Bailey for a deep dive into 90s TV try Chris and more after these messages.

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Well.

We have some drinks for a club members.

So this isn't part of the artist this was true things and he was talking about around for a reconditioned Disney plus series rival.

It's incredibly UK premise appearing to have no issue 4 international audiences or does it just have a soft spot with commissioners, maybe I'll be there must be metered in this occasion.

Gregg Wallaces behaviour appears to be no surprise the readers of popbitch the questions H with anyone at the BBC all the production company that had a look through their archives perhaps worth a scroll is an Elsan fresh from getting the shop is The Spectator editor under the new regime is it was pretty well received.

It was very good and yes, I think he is making a definite case that he could be either a broadcaster or he could be something Intel having come from The Spectator he has been away been practising for that because he has been on a lot of television discussions and generally being able to be the kind of the he might say right of centre, but the sensible balance to Harry has a nice voice.

Well.

I think it does matter that I think it is easy to listen to and his charming without being aggressive to anybody.

We swapped out Roger Fenton Bailey co-founder of World of Wonder welcome to the show you always watching to see what they're take his or can they manage it or are they just a face boundaries between TV and radio and interesting I think podcasts end up being middle space where you can be filming a podcast as well as doing audio.

I think this is filmed as well as being audio hard-and-fast boundaries emerging until people end up doing more than one thing not often end up doing multiple different things but we did a series catch and kill with Ronan farrow for hbl that was based on his best-selling book about the Harvey Weinstein story but based on the podcast he made about riding the bug and we then turn the podcast into a TV series so you know all those Verge

Coexisting I think that's so it's great you here in London you've been here for content London have you have you found that was interesting because industry conferences in the past.

I've been more vital than this felt and the question I asked you know how do I feel about the state of Unscripted is it is really as bad as it seems and realise looking around the multi-storey and maybe it is actually pretty bad because maybe you don't the audience just passed it by and that a lot of traditional Media hasn't woken up to the way social media has come along because there's no question we're all watching so much more than ever before we.

May not be watching linear TV we may not even be watching streaming.

We may be watching you know YouTube videos and tiktok videos and Instagram and not saying they're good or bad, but I think the fact of the matter is Una medias changed seismically and rapidly and is going to continue to change even more or your Britain America you lots of international production of sleep particularly drag race all around the world.

It's hurting here in the UK TV production at the moment particularly in certain genres.

Do you see that happening here? What's your you have massive layoffs at Disney paramount at all the big ones you've got enormous consolidation and as a result that redundancies.

It's it's pretty and

Freelancers in the states are out of work not just on the scripture type of the Unscripted side to your organisation that makes you think you will see the attraction drag race and other entertainment shows you've got an event coming up with RuPaul dragcon in London is a streaming service that sits alongside this are you doing that? It's so funny doing that because it's important to diversify because of the markets changing why all of those I mean honestly.

We do love what we do and I couldn't imagine doing what we do if we didn't love it and I actually did it's very hard to do it if you don't let me know the financial imperative to do it if you want to know if you want to make money by a bank you know I I don't think the money is in TV the Weber haps it was.

80s just change that was saying but I believe everyone today really is a is a creator is a producer is a direct my son.

He's about to turn 18 and to you when I had never made a film in my life.

He has to make three films and he showed them to me and their extraordinary dad's.

I'm I'm biased I was amazed at how edited just really know what they're doing but I think to tell a story in 5-minutes is a skill-set to you know you'll have the biggest animal in the and we got any drag race UK weather in Cairo the drag artist they sort of content.

No, I think I think drag artists are the sort of job.

I look at them as pop stars of the 70s or 80s iconic figures that I grew up looking up to and that they are capable in So Many Ways fashion and a look or singing or lip syncing or dancing on moving but also in terms of getting their audience and serving their audience via social media that very adaptor creating her own following and cultivating at that's the future that will they will come about different kind of ideas and formats that people in again seems to me we have a massive choice at the moment to be fair.

I'm a great supporter of you as you probably know of Public Service Broadcasting but I actually really quite enjoy the changes that have taken place because I love the streamers so especially Netflix and indeed ITV X I think he's doing very well, so I can cut out quite a lot of the middle star.

I don't really want to know I will watch the things I really do still on ITV BBC Channel 5 whatever Channel for decreasing Lee and I think I know I should be thinking which is true that I mean British own channels are underpowered now.

I feel I can fill the gaps with some of these other stream, so I can't say I'm disappointed and I also like the choice of foreign news.

This is the other thing I spend an awful lot of time not on the BBC or even otherwise.

I think Sky News is very good, but I'm certainly up there for aljazeera and all sorts of other things you put your service in wowpresentsplus a lot of shows that you making for the people that are supposed to say complex right struggle to decide who gets to see what is a little bit, but essentially I want to pick up magazine because I think.

It relates to the other way around it is the same thing that I think back to when you no listen to radio you would wait 4 hours for your favourite song all then once a week sit down to watch you know what's changed is now you can have an iPod or you can have Spotify and anything you want you can have whenever you want which sounds great and amazing but actually some it's not having the choice was really good and you are now free Maggie 22c.

Specially interest you and as you say forget the middle and one of the things that sort of discovered in this massive consolidation exercise in the States you know you've got HBO CNN Discovery they're all in this massive company they had the whole idea because we were having a lake of contacting makeover programming hgtv home wants to watch it.

Yes or no.

They got their kind of undermine the HBO Brand and the sidelines yep, that was what people love that premium feel and you've got Max and no one really what is Max it? Just feels like a little bit of everything and and in a way that is so massive and has so much.

It's slightly of pudding wear something like movie suddenly which which is like.

Oh, yes, I feel like I'm movie.

It's a curated house movies and like yeah.

I'm going to go the movie or or stay in California with my daughter and her American husband and the children I mean that they actually like things because they like Stephen Saka on on the service and adjust the really worried that he's going to finish but I think he is and they cherry-pick things but they watch a lot of movies as well because that actually is a contained period of time and you can.

So I booked but when they come to the UK they love the BBC Two so you know it's so it's a kind of thing is here.

Everything's going to be streaming.

It's about massive streamers.

It's actually linear is enjoying the revival and fast channels and I think imagine 12 which makes an unpleasant son but in which is all these different kind of models have a role to play and modifies the other one each other out of that the content on wow.

Obviously there's some sort of tempo content spin-off shows and things to talk about the shows and things that are probably not like podcast eat, but they take us of a podcast feeling have you had to use scheduled or kind of commission that is it weird to go from someone that pictures to the network.

So what should we pay for for Ireland service for ages not really because

The movement be seen over the last couple of something losing their jobs understandably especially when there's less money to go round and then so I think what's evolving is much less development much less resources for that and much more if you can make it somehow some way that's the way to go forward do what you want to do make what you want to make and maybe right for Netflix but maybe it tonight then if not it's right for a while since last.

See you that you had some shows on MTV VH1 on the logo and drag race is paramount to remember all of the other side so on some of the the homebuying shows registrar bravo which is NBC universal.

Spin-off lot of the cable channel over the years that that's good news for the cold and spend at the moment speaker would like to make around around what we do is we have behind the paywall A linear at that just shows content from the platform.

So that you don't have to choose to log in and just watch we also have a thing where if you want to prove it that you can watch every single first episode of every single version of drag racing at the races and it doesn't get you.

Are you advising him to do in this very kind of open but yet quite complicated world, you know I'm like so I might go for it because he is clearly much more talented than I was and I told him from school do some other major or minor but is actually useful because I think I G is actually a not discuss resources.

Everyone can have an idea for sure but it's going how the market works knowing what the opportunities are so why not do a degree in business as well, so you cannot understand.

How your idea might be hanging the realise it because the days of being a head in the clouds director on creating with no mind to the audience or how you're going to manage.

I think those days are over 90 as yeah, so was changed dramatically from the media acquisition perspective and what's out there when you started that up.

Do you feel the same way you did back then about what you make has that changed?

There's no question none of this would have happened without Channel 4 like Channel 4 with window of opportunity and we were just in the right place at the right time.

I was running up working on Wall Street as a videotape editor drexel Burnham coming together video takes about junk bonds and stuff and brandy and I will of public access and crazy shows that wrong Manhattan cable and because I can't because my friend was making a documentary about Michael Milken and because Caroline Thompson the commission he was on maternity leave and Michael Atwell was sitting in for her.

I was working on this talking about Barack Obama John Barnes and out of that I said to hear you said to me one day what else have you any other ideas? I mean and we actually we do have an idea.

Let's take clips from these public access shows and make a collage late night out of the pub and that was offers series station to the takeover TV into Adam and Joe and that was a big hit for you.

Was it like working with those two at the beginning.

I love Adam and Joe and because my public at the Manhattan was great but we don't have some originated UK content.

So why don't you bring the idea of public access to the UK which was takeover TV and I was coming in Barrack Street I was coming together there, but the prompt the pilot real and had a pile of types that the researcher would look is it Rejects

When it was Adam Buxton on my gosh I wasn't me.

He's brilliant and funny and that's how that they come to London this week at all the biggest shows are accidental so there's Accidents Can Happen in in lots of Channel 4 there has been a bit you say that she needs a big refresh Really Channel 4 as it started was clearly quite experimental and it took a lot of risks I think at the moment one and one of the things about it remember Jeremy Isaacs point it wasn't a job for Life you had to keep changing the commissioners you had to keep refreshing yourself you had to keep asking questions of yourself as well and as we all know he left after sort of 6-years and handed over to Michael grade.

You actually say too long for 10 years and that was a problem.

Of course it has adapted in that period to being advertising funded which is a good thing.

I mean it is to some extent not dependant on what the government thinks about it.

It is itself.

I think at the moment it it should actually have a refresh at the top and and I think it needs new inspiration term limits for can I think that's not a bad because there's no question that there was a window of stuff so much work we did for child imagine how we would have ever in America we couldn't get it was a wonderful innovation.

This is the reason I actually gave myself this rather owners of writing about 40 years of and I never writing another history tell you I'm not in the market, but the reason I did it was that in the sort of the naughtiest when they were changing.

It is quite quickly Mark Thompson for example is one I suddenly found myself sitting in things like press conferences and the people in senior positions in Channel 4 not Michael but other making statements that went true and I realise they didn't know the origins of their own company and this was only 15 years add and it was at that point.

I thought someone to write the stand and I had witnessed it in at first handle most you know if my own little lonely royal first of all the Guardian and then at the Independent newspaper and I love every aspect of it for it's getting up and go kind of and I love the films of course that was why I thought you had to be set down and recorded so that probably boring your family very boring but I do think that I don't mean that.

Finger happened there was so much innovation that has tripled out into the industry and it it would be so great if there was a refresh.

I think it I think it really does need a refresh and maybe I'm glad they still making films.

I don't know what you think about that.

I think it's a good idea, but they have put it back together again with drama.

There's a lot of that you can do with China thought of course it's been hit by The Rising is Dad but that doesn't mean that you can't still think of all take up new ideas and new challenges.

I just don't know that we all have to do is head of the broadcast quality cameras.

We had back in the day.

I just jump into the quiz we were talking about documentaries.

Think about or all working on with all the things we've been singing the news about what's happening in the church.

Is there some stories that should be covered absolutely I mean you know thanks again.

We made the eyes of Tammy Faye they didn't fully found it.

They put some money into the movie version of that documentary went on to win 2 Oscars so you know thanks for that one story that particular.

I've been following prior to the Archbishop of Canterbury's resignation which is don't want to read this book few years ago called bleeding for Jesus and my jaw hit the floor the story of John Smith and his decades-long.

Spray of unbridled sadism is and its cover up is extraordinary.

I End and it's old is swelled.

I know because I was a boarding school in the 70s.

I had friends who were at Winchester who knew John Smyths who went to lunch at his house up the garden shed but who didn't who won abused by my son at school.

No, but there was it was we were part of the was part of the at least I was in the evangelical thing because you were away from home.

You were sort of you were lonely and it wasn't these were a and the evangelical groups and holding hands it offered some kind of companionship and but I personally would never invited to you and campsite.

Read Andrew Greystones wonderful book bleeding for Jesus I understand why they had a phrase not quite what we want and I was obviously you know gays gays they come and I don't think I was quite what they wanted to say.

I would love to do it as it's an extraordinary story of I think it's a story about social history.

You know John Smyth maiden name going after Gay News as the Whitehouse barrister, when she sued for blasphemy successfully sue them for that poem of the centurion looking up at Jesus on the cross and having a spa and the irony of that poem is that John Smith who condemned it and who saw the Demise again using one the conviction was?

That poem perfectly describes him and it's just so ironic that this twisted sick individual would be able to so hypocritically persecute gay people who just wanted to express themselves and live their lives out loud while she perpetrated this awful damaging.

I am not committed so much harm in and when he was found out he was found out no consequences.

Well.

It's get to Africa which is also another appalling set up anymore coverage, so let's see what happens next you didn't flush baby wipes understand what the moment will get something out and get that looked at the door lock will get you from problem 2 solution as quickly as possible Direct Line we are on it properly a green.

What's the new customers should be a happy moment for your business instead legal and commercial teams waste time looking for templates and lose momentum when deals get stuck in Legal review your data contract with AI contract faster and get back to impact for work find out more about intelligent contract automation at duro.com that's jur o.com ok time for the quiz.

Let's see how much you been paying attention to the media news this week.

Speak is entitled presken but plots in 2024 so keeping the 90s theme going to be touched on earlier.

I will give you 3 press stories of the week, but of Julia Sawalha in Dexter Fletcher's Shay from the 90s Press Gang best of 3 so buzz in if you know the answer to your name's arbuzas, so Maggie you will say.

Say ok brilliant play with plots between right here.

We go in the day refuses to back down in the face of a revolt from reporters led by Spike so who in the news this week has the face like a revolt from reporters list of had a 2-day strike on the picket line probably because server deserves better really than being treated in this way by The Guardian they've always been in an unhappy relationship and it has had very little investments.

I'm glad that the Guardian journalists are sticking up for them and it's partly to do with the fact that they are trying to preserve their quite lucky position that you're not going to be made redundant.

Which is a big thing and the Guardian when I was there always used to let believe it or not the journalist decide the division of pay rises so that and they always photo for equal pay equal pay for whoever you were so the margins between people got reduce your stuff for the prices for the to pay rises when a green energy tycoon expresses interest in doing the student newspaper.

another Observer story

He says so this is Dale Vince OBE who's my company I looking for sticking sticking on that observing the Tortoise and the people coming out the woodwork as well fencing.

Do you think it would have a nice new lease of Life by Living somewhere else but it's quite possible if you said it hasn't really received much investment and Spencer Treat and pull away maybe it would give it a new I'm not sure that I don't think that I'm it's a particularly Healthy Business in terms of making money in fact it seems to be losing my and if there is to be a new owner then.

I think the criteria has to be quite high the Observer has not had really any investment you can speak of and it hasn't really refreshed.

It's staff at all.

If you if you read it, it's trying.

Gardner and it does have things people like including the you know the food monthly so it needs a very deep pockets, but it actually need somebody who's committed to get refreshing it and making it work and I'm sure it can be done the Vision visions important Factor to think that's for the successful media companies the ones that really do have the strong vision for the future itself is a delivery technology and delivery technologies always change it's funny.

Isn't it? Because I don't know what the solution is work newspapers and how you keep them working financially but you know one of the things that's interesting is books for example students.

Just can't read books.

I don't want to read books and I also see similar to the way vinyls had a Resurgence in the wake of CDs and digitial music that actually books are having a bit of a moment and it.

Same as the good old days, but it's a different more specialised thing and so there's a place for all of these mediums.

That's just find that sweet spot 3 Colin Matthews around take over interview with EL going editor of a local turns national newspaper in employment support Linda confront him doubts about her leadership and whether she's truly empowering her team whose local to National change of newspaper.

Maybe a clue on the table Maggie that you bought him in the evening Standard yes, I'm afraid it look I've been spending days in kind of Wales using today, but I have been reading the news.

Weekly standard and I'm from the first few additions step down from the standard after 18 months is the editor so some some more changes there that just about Maggie to win up very soon tomorrow.

What's on the list of things to do well.

I'm going to get my outfit ready for drag on 10th and 11th.

I mean and big event in London

And it's I think you know the way standard is going to a weekly I was just seeing if you were talking about the Hollywood reporter used to be a daily and it became a weekly and it's incredibly and similarly I think all these all these things you've got to keep on your toes and be open to changing the way you do things at home.

They take and drag.

I'm really is a logical extension of the Show because what we seeing is audiences are much more engaged.

Hopefully I want to participate and feel some sense of ownerships in the shop.

They're not just sitting there watching a show their participating in something.

It's like fan culture participation culture and Dragon delivers on that and then a new twist that we stumbled upon.

This is actually we shoot a lot of content for represents + at dragon.

Cast reunions or painted with raven and we stream all the Queen's at drag on the 150 walking the pink carpet live stream that live and all is not everything works spectacular failures, but I think it's futureshock about the idea that change is not something that just happens and then there's a new stability but it's an accelerating process of increasingly rapid change and all my ears doing a site.

That's all I see it's just the pace of change keeps on getting faster and faster lovely to see you again Maggie I would like some Roger from earlier, and yes, we'll see you all very soon.

Thank you very much for joining us as well remember you could.

The media club for free it's at the media club.com we love to give us an email address which will send you a message every week with what's on the show my name is the producer is not here.

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Residential properties up to £1,500 what historical events are we taking off on this week's run of today in history on Monday the smartest guys in the room went past on the queen of crime fiction was at the centre of a true crime mystery on Wednesday the day the world's oldest dinosaur became the world's second oldest dinosaur on Thursday going going on it's Chrissy's first auction and on Friday who was the first woman to win a quiz show jackpot this day in history with the retrospective.