Read this: What is the BBC's plan for younger listeners?

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts and welcome to the Future of BBC audio depends on audiences does The Corporation have a plan to draw them in whether it's TV news audio research consistently shows that traditional Media organisations are fighting what is currently a losing battle for the attention of younger people and that could define the role of the BBC from more than one generation so the final episode series of feedback is a special edition where I'm going to be taking you inside that battle will be hearing from a panel of young listeners, so I don't really engage with BBC audio that listen to radio on this morning in the music definitely more aligned with my cousin commissioning editor Dylan Haskins on the role of BBC sounds for I really focus on 25 to 44 year olds.

That we could be reaching and we haven't been finding light from the head of BBC Radio 1 the pros and cons of searching ride a young audience on YouTube and social media is is YouTube a shop front window to the content we create or is it a destination in itself and feedback goes behind the scenes at the news podcast and younger listeners source because I think people do care about news.

I think they're very engaged in certain stories.

I think it's just the way we deliver it to them, but first.

Let's just try to get a sense of how significant challenge facing the BBC is when it comes to younger listeners, Dr Mark Walsh is head of the school of journalism media and Culture at Cardiff University so what's his sense of how severe the decline in young people listening to BBC audio is and why is it happening? Well if you look at what's happening with audiences audiences are atomising for a different.

Broadcast and media content and they're going to different platforms where young people are finding the stories that they want to engage with them to speak to them through social media, so it's to me then the obvious thing is that BBC audio needs to be on these new platforms you need to by the young people are how successful is BBC audio and doing that he's been very good with sounds in developing new audiences who want to deliver on-demand audio content that say one thing that I would say that was that actually audience ageing a little bit.

It's actually the Oldham news.

Who are their audience for podcasts.

So people that are coming up too late thirties or early 40s rather than the really young audiences.

You know people who are teenagers or early 20s to get their social news from Instagram is the really popular format for people who is young people who are in their early 20s, but when you go to bed.

Teenagers so people between 12 and 15.

They are getting out their material there news content their stuff from tiktok, so we know that listenership to you one has declined over the years, but I wonder does that matter if there's young people are actually still engaging with the BBC just on different platforms and social media platforms for example.

Yes, it's clearly about platform so the important thing here is that the BBC is creating content for all audiences wherever they are in a platform agnostic way in the air.

That's the BBC's duty is to inform those audiences and educate them and entertain them in the places where they are we get many Radio 2 Radio 3 Radio 4 listeners getting in touch with feedback to complain day feel are United by their stations attempts to chase after a younger audience you know what's wrong with listeners that you have already they say to us.

But one day when you put a station like Radio 4 who's audiences often in the 50s or older indeed? What is there a need to target a younger audience? Yes, I mean this is the sort of thing that keeps controllers of radio stations awake at night now cause when we talking about younger audiences in terms of things like Radio 4 were talking about people in their 40s really so so it's still on it and an audience in their early middle-age where they're still going to be interested in many of the issues that are going to affect an older audience, but there's going to be differences between them down to the demographics of the different different parts of the audience and that's that's ok.

We can make products we can make radio programmes for different parts of the audience, but I think it's going to be interesting for people particularly on Radio 4 is whether or not listeners ever really get the Habit of listening to a linear channel for long periods of the day it may be that those younger people who are in there for.

Just prefer to get the audio on demand from BBC sounds doctor from the University of Cardiff of course.

Maybe the best way to find out what's going on is to hear from young people themselves 3 students Caleb Charlotte and devoleena sat down together for feedback to discuss their listening habits when it's 8:40 student currently studying journalism, and it's quite a lot of young people.

I am I constantly have always listen to music so I'm Charlotte I'm 24 and I study broadcast journalism as a master's I would sound quite similar to Halo in the sense that my phone to pretty much always there when I'm out and about except.

I would say walking into a podcast.

Where is it on at the gym in the car, and what's more upbeat? I do tend to listen to music.

What would you say devoleena so high and they will need 21 years old.

Considering my masters in international journalism, it's pretty similar to you guys as well, but then I prefer listening to podcast when I'm cooking I listen to music when I'm walking down the street and I guess it's pretty common for all of us in this generation to just put in our headphones so that we are not like nobody comes in and discuss on the street BBC audio much and occasionally need some sort of Radio 6 programme about tune into that kind of actually go looking for that stuff and that's me today looking for music.

I might be in the Horrid and stream platform.

I think in terms of the stuff is tailored towards young people that Radio 1 supermarket.

You know if the markets between 16 and 25 and 22 now.

I should have in common with my 16-year old self you can have some at 16.

It's doing a GCSE is and some that's 25.

That's you know having a career and

That sort of thing you wanted to hear my serious stuff.

It's time for a fact you if I say to you.

I would much rather get my news from but then when it comes to music.

I do think I was listening to Radio 1 this morning in the music definitely lined with my taste so I did listen to Radio 1 today in the morning and it felt very upbeat and it is fine when you're like in the middle of the day but only in the morning.

I was like I really need something that is a bit Mallow down and for hardcore news that I keep switching to Radio 2 so I felt like that's where I was getting my information from don't really want to hear about the Taylor Swift music continuously throughout the day especially in the morning.

I need some good hardcore news as well from time-to-time.

Old idea that you know young people to listen to anyone and it is certain age.

What age 2?

The politicians in the Today programme, but I think it will be nice to see that you know young voices are seen as serious enough to belong and ready to and belonging Radio 4 as well use BBC sounds to listen to podcast and and they do an amazing job treating that sense that you are dead on scene and this is something I really like about BBC the sound effects of Julie dynamic Giants that a lot of young people constantly tapped into I just don't I don't see it being competitions listening to music.

I think it can be good for news and things like that.

I don't think it is.

About trusting the BBC world, I don't find that when people are like if I go on tiktok.

Can I search a video and I see like their option the guys at BBC ITV Sky whether I always will always turn to the BBC are generation at 16:25.

I do think we have quite a strong interest in the BBC's I do think that worth mentioning so obviously we talk and it is a you think a lot of hassle stilton.

You know it to the people that how many thanks to Caleb Charlotte and devoleena of the BBC but younger listeners is BBC signs this comes from understanding the younger generations are less likely to switch on an old school radio and at the BBC will have to meet audiences where they are on the phones.

They've poured resources into signs both into the app itself and into content designed to draw listeners in but when it comes.

Attracting and engaging younger listeners has actually been a success well.

That's the question.

I put two Dylan Haskins BBC signs commissioning editor with the most important thing to 2 is that a younger listeners are always getting older so he is going from one HMO graphic into another age demographics is always an uphill battle if you look at the present bands in the market in the UK market relative to huge far better resource platforms like Spotify or Apple you know if there aren't any other markets really in in the English-speaking world where you can lock and see a public service broadcaster in in such high contention in terms of people's people's usage of it.

It's going quite well, but clearly you can never just go ok.

Got it for good to go when you talk about younger people.

Are you talking about that kind of 18 to 25 demographic or be under 40s? How does it work told me? It's really really important.

It's not.

Janice audience it's far more fragmented now than it ever has been so I really focus on 25 to 44 year olds in some of my recent commissions mainly because there an audience that we could be eating and we haven't been reading I think in some advice this year.

We've had really really good success in getting to that already and then what that is about is understanding them understanding their lives their habits.

What is a better content that might be reaching them it can be the subject matter I can be the Host but often it's the tone and it's a perception.

It's good, but it's may be a bit safe vs.

Disorder podcast doesn't have to kind of me in Paris reality guidelines and can it says what they really think and what we've been really trying to show with that actually you can push the tone and you can't be far more later from the BBC while so sticking to impress Blinds so I take it that something like miss me which is hosted by singer Lily Allen and presenter miquita Oliver Fitzroy

What you just been describing told me? I'm not what we were looking for there was we specifically one that's something that was probably a little bit older than 2025 actually probably looking a kind of 32-44 as it's centre of gravity and and female stealing specifically as well.

Hi miquita.

Oliver life from Antigua look at my ass to show the whole yard in the shop and saffron and 21 years old and calling from Master I love listen to The Message podcast I think the new Makita have such a report that can't be replicated and they are so honest my name is Edinburgh sometimes.

I really relates to what Lily Makita are talking about but other times I feel the need.

Switch off too many angels and references to things that happened in the past.

It makes me feel like I'm not part of your quick and Phoebe wants in like Brewery Road like so down the back of like I'm Florence I'm calling from Croydon and I just like how it can go from a serious topic about the patriarchy to their experiences and raving is just really beautiful.

I do wonder by Lily Allen was specifically paid for this podcast ultimately she did get a bit heated on.

Hello.

My name is marielle eye-tracking London watching the T20 TV and listening to music and I live in Cape Town South Africa and I am loving listening listening to miss me makes me feel emotional it reminds me of the importance of female friendship in touch with us or a bit younger.

I think then your target demographic.

Weird Florence you got in touch with us.

I think she's only 20 and she was asking.

Why is it Lily Allen why did you choose her giving that? She's had a tumultuous few years.

It's an amazing surprise with this podcast actually seeing how it is resonating with that younger audience and sometimes resonate with an older audience target audience as well and I get to that point about both Nelly and Makita have kind of been through quite a lot of ups and very public clothes and and and I think that was all aspects of guys might not be you know reliable to everybody in that they've been around celebrity with a quite a while.

We're a lot of people are quite concerned about what they're saying and how that might reflect on them.

I think you get quite of raw authenticity.

We've got one listener Pip who is I think she's 25 and she said that they're actually were too many in jokes for her.

Things that happened in the past and what she said which I thought was interesting it made me feel like I'm not part of their clique.

You kind of want to bring the audience a Nando's in jokes.

You don't want to feel like you just it's not actually you just talking to your friend is a podcast and there is an audience here and you know and it's important to think about that, but it also there's a tension that I find really interesting as a commissioner where you you want somebody to be relatable absolutely but equally you wanted to be authentic.

I would kindly rather the authenticity person a over the always relate podcast along with in a loads of others isn't available just on signs.

It's on Spotify it's on Apple and you clip obviously for a tiktok Instagram YouTube How are you going with the audience? Are is that is that why you do that? I know this information this year.

I have been really about changing the perception that that sounds might have content that people.

That's why they go to other platforms.

You're not going to do that by having another great content on a platform that they're not on the current strategy seems to be working quite well.

I've putting it everywhere and trying to make a big the famous and then trust that will bring another audience into sounds as well which seems to be happening so far Dylan Haskins commissioning editor for BBC sounds know once upon a time the pie for young audiences into the BBC with straightforward Radio 1 was the obvious radio station helping build loyalty for younger listeners, who would then later start listening to other networks as they aged know as younger audience is deserting linear radio in their droves.

It's not that simple but Radio 1 as a brand remain place.

That's asked to lead the BBC's appeal to these audiences and not just on Radio but in particular on social media and through YouTube videos Scotland

Play angry and this is a playlist for anything, but I'm delighted to say that sitting next to me now is the head of Radio 1 Aled Haydn Jones your remit is to entertain and engage.

I can't key target audience of 15 to 24 hospital.

It's the hardest to Victorians around the world not just for the BBC or any other media, but I'm pleased to say it's going very well actually for the BBC and in the UK specifically Radio 1 is the biggest radio station for all age groups 6 and 24/5 and 29 and 35.

We hope to keep that going we know that the amount of young people switching on to radio is waning over time.

Do you change what you go the amount of hours that young people are dedicating to audio has increased but at the same time there are more places.

They can bring that weather streaming sites when that social media linear radio so for example in the UK around 94% of the population listen to radio so the hardest to be told it's a 15 to 24 year olds that still 78% which is very high someone like Spotify that is very popular in the UK 50% of 15 to 24 year olds well actually surprised yeah, Netflix is the same right to radio reaches more young people on Spotify sample.

Are you using YouTube for example to try and drive people to listen to Linear radio to listen to Radio 1 or is it ok if I actually never listen to Radio 1 and just look at you.

To your content on YouTube going to have to be both is is YouTube a shop front window more same goes for tiktok or Instagram to the content we create or is it the nation itself? And I think we're going to have to be comfortable with a splits and trying to get the percentage of as possible.

So that the licence fee has a return of journey back to the BC I wanted to talk to you a little bit of Wight news, because the news I put that goes onto anyone is rather short and I just wonder if those listeners who in their early 20s.

I may be doing slightly short changed.

We have a difficult job.

It's constantly a balance to try and say how do we provide enough content that is broad enough for many young people to consume possible part of the BBC that are there for people who want a deeper dive into news.

We have to take a look at the portfolio as a whole to make sure that we have avenues to go to if you're a linear.

Station I think an hour of news is phenomenal.

Do you say it an hour of news, but of course it's it's come up into little tiny Bitesize changes throughout the day that is the language way hearing.

They will know the headlines.

They're not looking for a deep dive over there cup of coffee in the morning if you are a young person for your 52:24 every bit of content every song has been chosen has been chosen for you.

Just last month the latest BBC annual report said that only 69% of under 16s engage with the BBC on a regular basis whereas about 95% of adults overall.

I wondered do you feel then there's quite a lot resting on you because if you don't people don't Foreman and with the BBC early then you may lose them later on and that's obviously going to be very important for the licence fee Andy to the Future of the BBC is grey hairs.

Absolutely laptop egg.

This is what me and my team work on Daily what let me go to sleep at night is the factor quite often when we have examined the 12 to 16 age group they tend to disconnect from any type of Media is more about their friendship.

Is there school the hanging out with you people they want to be around and you come back into media as you start having your own independence around College university, so that's when where the continuity love to listen and watch Aled Haydn Jones controller of radio 1.

Thank you so much for spending time with feedback.

You're welcome.

Thank you finally finding accurate news.

I see of social media misinformation has never been more important.

So how is the BBC using podcasting to try and fill that gab and can it really reach Young

Well, the BBC's latest attempt to answer that question reliable source with Kirsty and Jonelle launched in August last year and this is reliable source.

They will be here still about the stories.

We've been working on all week as journalist in the BBC reporter John Rogers behind the scenes to find out more.

It is a grey and wet Thursday morning here in central London I'm heading into Broadcasting House for peek behind the scenes at the BBC sounds podcast reliable source that sauce sauce90 show about ketchup and mayo is dead it tries to engage a younger audience in the biggest news stories of the week as they would say that trying to add a little Spice on top of traditional news coverage.

I'm a senior journalist on the BBC News social team and one of the presenters of The reliable source podcast I'm back Monday and assistant editor with news pods and looking after a reliable source in its third season to be a journalist on the BBC news channel and so did Michael general because our friends we worked in news.

We would always get like voice notes from people being like this when we going to war like this story me and really confused and we would both be like.

We want to keep explaining these things you so we will talk about that and we said like we should just make something we can send to them be like listen to this do people use is a fair one or an accurate one lazy thing to say because I think it's just the way we deliver it to them.

They don't consume news in the traditional way the we potentially consuming going up but actually it's all over their social media feeds and whether it's the kind of miss information.

They will fat checking they are consuming news overlooking the reliable source studio.

Or bonjour should I say how does that integrates with reliable source that we need a tablet visualise and we needed have it picked up the sweet spot for reliable source is a moment within the recording that we know going into the recording or make a really strong tivetshall social post and feel like this season.

We really kind of took 2 hours before going in but the social media.

Obviously and forms some of the stories directions to be putting the podcast 1st engineers great looking through the comments on the BBC news tiktoks and bring him bring him some of those comments to the to the table, so there's a question in a monk's those comments that no-one's really answer.

And then take that on and combating social media misinformation.

Do you see that as part of the role of reliable source as well? It's always been there as always been a part of journalism.

It's probably now got a fancy name and refer to it a bit more, but that is part of journalism right and you can't do a podcast from 225 that is focused around what's on social media and ignore this information conspiracy theories and Kirsty with the shows focus on young people and being in your mid 20s yourself.

Do you find it hard to remain impartial while presenting is that something you run up against a little bit like me to give my opinion as much as it is a funny podcast me chat around topics if they came to us and we gave our take on it or they might be a bit like oh ok.

You know it's like giving them their opinion but my friends when they are looking for.

What is happening and I'll give them the time to think of their own take on it and I don't want to shut down my throat so I think the whole point basis reliable is the BBC and it's telling you what you need to know and you can take it from there Rogers there looking at reliable source the overarching thing I took from these interviews about high the BBC is trying to bring in younger audiences.

Is that the BBC assert.not complacent indeed? It's very aware of the issues faced by atoms are there old school media companies but the media landscape is changing rapidly for people in their teens and early and so is becoming increasingly fragmented making it even harder for the BBC to find those younger listeners and yet.

There is amongst many young people a Desire for trusted particularly when it comes to news and BBC is a brand I still know and often do trust well.

That's it for this edition and indeed this series of feedback, but don't.

I'll be back before you know it so do keep your comments coming in we do read everyone as ever.

Thank you so much for listening and giving us your feedback good if you look through your makeup bag you might have a blusher eyeshadow of face powder that contains the ingredient talc with other questions about it's safety women diagnosed with cancer have lunch court cases against companies they claim this something lurking in the tack asbestos cocktails on BBC sounds.