Read this: 18/07/2024 Radio 4 Feedback

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts and welcome to hello and welcome no love them or lotham podcasts refuse part of the BBC election coverage in the world to enjoy all the business and excitement of Adam Fleming describe podcast correctly as Unscripted chav and he was spot on but I can get that at the pub.

Then responsible joins me to discuss the rise and rise of the BBC News podcast with informal with conversational release but when we compete with other podcasts In the podcast market with competing impartiality also the men who don't apply sunblock.

What's the main thing stopping you stupidity? We put to feedback listeners in or box box to give us their take on the new Radio 4 comedy series.

Working men's club events for the only way you're really good at approach and older generation is through something like this.

This is kind of the only way.

I think you're gonna you're gonna break through and it's still coming through and the man himself Geoff Norcott is here to respond his critics and talk about the role of the right-leaning comedian on Radio 4.

Just simply having a view like that on the panel.

I hope you have something to push up again, but first hello from the BBC Radio Theatre which tonight we turned into a ginormous living room was it a podcast was it a TV pro or was it a hybrid version of Gogglebox it's quite interactive already guys recreate the noise made when you first sausage on Curtis the BBC newscaster election all-nighter was broadcast live from the Radio Theatre on iPlayer for almost 10 hours.

It was perhaps the most high.

Sample of the world of podcasting seeping into the realm of linear broadcasting a sign that this really was the first podcast election and that didn't go latest biofeedback listeners news from the BBC my name is Penny mountains and I live in Sturminster Newton in Dorset and it's Lauren the next to you and opposite Adam thank you for that very detailed description of the geography of this to do everything picture us now and I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the newscast on Saturday the 13th of July it was such an insight for analysis Susan Young in Peterborough irregular listen to news cast where the informative banter between Chris Mason Adam Fleming in the team is refreshing I'm in politics flipping heck.

I mean it's just incredible isn't it was about to have our first.

In under 2 years, please don't wear Chris out.

Let him have a rest sometimes just after 5 the BBC cold.

It was going to be a government yeah actually Richard by the way this sofa is almost too comfortable falling asleep from Finland I think the BBC has struggled with the the strong their political department time was you had Dimbleby Witchell Neil Bruce Mar you could tell from all of them broadcasters that the podcast area has led them to spend less time in accounts in favour of chat.

My name is John I subscribe to News cast on another drawing the listener into their world to enjoy all the business and excitement of the day I felt included in the conversation as they share their stories and news.

Play the I'm joining Now by Sam Bonham good runs the BBC News podcast and buy presenter and correspondent Alex Forsyth welcome both of you to feedback.

Thank you very much for joining us know it's really busy time for you some would you say that this was the first podcast election? I don't we just on election night, but throughout the whole election coverage is definitely phrase that I have been known around the office.

I mean you've got podcast personalities on TV during election night.

You've got podcasts kind of becoming ubiquitous on social media.

You've Got News podcasts sitting at top of the podcast charts and certainly at the BBC you know newscast and the today podcast on podcast audience is growing significantly during the election so clearly like podcast for a really important part in a different place.

I think now is like an industry to where we were at the last election in a you.

Got more podcast he got bigger audiences, but I think actually.

Master just are in the mix radio and TV audiences are still considerably bigger than podcast audiences.

That's not so podcast on a really important part of the ecosystem.

What Alex you're a very much spell campsite ecosystem, want you because you know you chair the very traditional Radio 4 staple any questions and then you are also a regular contributor to news podcast including newscast I wonder how different does it feel when your approaching both of those there are definitely difference is I mean.

I would agree with sand at the joy of course in the evolution of podcast abroad in the choice for you know we know the media landscape considerably and I think having forecast in the mix as part of that as well as the more traditional linear forms of news and analysis or debate programs.

It's just depending how you choose to consume your news.

There is something there for you, but they are undoubtedly different and I very deliberately approached in a different way you Know Podcast by their very nature Les Paul

Exposed in the more traditional news output.

They are more conversational deliberately so you're trying to invite the audience in to be part of your conversation and when I approach him.

I supposed to sort of metaphor loosening of the Thai or shrugging off of a suit jacket when you going to a podcast format as opposed to something like any questions podcast can be less structured and it's part of the joy of them, but what I would say is something that applies across the board but you don't change is the editorial rigour but I don't know do you enjoy it more.

Do you enjoy just been able to loosen the tires you say and just say what you're thinking a little bit more and more I was so it's very different and I've worked and broadcast for a very long time and back from the more traditional days of broadcast you still Alton to the way that you approach broadcast to suit different formats.

You know what you can play by definition in a live on the 10:00 news is going to be very different to what you say in a 40-second radio news bulletin and what you might say in a broader discussion program at every single one has elements a bit that you enjoy.

Challenge of the podcast in the modern Media landscape and particularly podcast for the BBC is how you make it about cars which is enjoyable where you can show a bit more personality perhaps and you do any more traditional news format or a linear format that how you do that without introducing opinion because that is not a job at the BBC you know no matter what the format is you're still there to inform the audience engaged audience.

It's not about opinion so you have to you know be sure to find a way to do that and I think I book offers a platform that can allow you to you know it is it's a discussion.

It's a conversation about subjects and you offer analysis and you obviously offer information but avoid opinion a little bit then abide opinion as Alex has brought it up because of course you're a very crowded market there any other news podcast out there some done by by former colleagues from the BBC on the one thing that they've got is that they can give you their opinion they can tell you what they're thinking in a way that.

BBC people can't and I wondered you feel that that can a tie your hands and in a way it might mean that listeners don't get quite as as rounded and experience as they do when people can really tell you what they're feeling I see impartiality as a superpower when you cast as an example competes with other radio programmes for listeners.

We can be on time.

So we're informed is Alex says we take the news ready seriously, but we're informal were conversational wear loose but when we compete with other podcasts In the podcast market with competing in reality you know we're competing on our need to pursue truth with no gender and at this moment in the in the new cycle of disinformation and fake news and all of that actually you know that kind of thing is even more important.

We don't take a side we don't need to take a side we tell it how it is a little bit of election night because election cost.

Broadcast live on iPlayer which for some people medical blurred the lines between podcast and TV although a lot more podcasts are being filmed these days to give it like that kind of Visual element wonder if you could just talk us through the decision that you made to have that election all nighter and indeed how to do partly it was only 50 people watching Fleming Alex Forsyth and others on stage with guests talking about the news and partly it was 150 people that were part of their very own show so it felt like a new format as a new media news casters trying to find its space within what the BBC offers right so when there's a bigger than an election actually something like Newcastle which is Which is relatively new you know we were there for the last election but we were only just there for the last election and we're trying to find the space and I think he's kind of new format this new podcasting for.

Newcastle Night Away really kind a good way of doing Alex how was that the election cost for you at very different way probably of covering election from perhaps what you done before yeah.

I mean it was in the part of the wider election coverage, so I was actually at one of the election counts and so I was Broadcasting for new scars for the all night, but then I was also doing traditional TV for the BBC One election overnight program and the radio programme as well and filing for digital and online and I think that is the kind of modern world of being a correspondent or presenter.

You do multiple output uSwitch slightly.

Yes your style but not again you're kind of content or the editorial rigour that you reply to it.

There's something else.

I would say about forecast specifically when you're looking at the kind of wider mixed feeding to the election campaign it was something I noticed with newscast in particular was that was a space that allows you to come.

I think add values to an audience so particularly explaining caps of workings of a story explaining some.

Editorial decisions and discussions that go into a story the journalism behind the story and I think the space that a podcast allows you to do that not only allows the audience into the room with helps intend to the transparency around our journalism, which particularly during something like an election campaign is usually helpful, so I think there's a kind of police for it in the wider mixes summer said some of course but not everybody's tastes at listener Ian MacRobert for instance says Adam Fleming describe podcast correctly as Unscripted chat and he was spot on but I can get that at I don't want to listen to two or three people sitting waffling About Nothing I've tried various and wouldn't go back the only one I listen to is from Private Eye but that has the plus of funny we take the news really seriously but we don't in any way take a self seriously and that kind of informed but informal approaches like right of the heart of of ever.

We do and I think you know newscasts family of trusted friends brings you analysis it brings you all the all the insight and those trusted friends are the best BBC journalists in the organisation.

We are not going to cost we are not bad custard anyway.

We do the news but just because they do the news doesn't mean tonally doesn't make me have to sound like the other news media outlet.

We can sound like we want to sound and is working you know is that is something that all this is really enjoying Alex we've talked a lot about hi the family of podcasters is important and the colour of the chat and the personality that you're able to bring the you've been a political journalist for a long time and I'm sure when you started your purse thoughts or you are your personality probably with something that you didn't try to show I wonder if you're always comfortable showing a bit more of your personality in podcast was it a skill that you had

Downloaded it just come naturally I think when I first started broadcasting which was a few years ago, and it was actually on brexit cost which you know in those heady days were found it and I would say that from when I'm very first started broadcasting when I would say the whole Media landscape was slightly more formal and perhaps slightly more traditional and I'm talking 2 years ago now.

It was a bit of a leap to shrug a little bit of that off in terms of tone and embrace something more conversational, but I think that is kind of working its way slightly that that tonal shift into other parts of more traditional media as well.

There is a place for formality.

There is a place for people watching the news in a very straight to the point way and all programs for example like any questions or other traditional news programs that I work across you know there is a place for serious discussions serious to be robust.

Adequate scrutiny proper accountability and that will never go away and all of that is still the essence of water podcast as well, but I think there are places where that informality can add to a discussion or debate within 6-months a bit of it when it's appropriate and I wouldn't say across the board that's that's appropriate but there are times when it is an example of any questions, they might be a time in that sort of in a 15-minute discussion program where a likeness of touches not so bad thing and a discussion it can bring out more from the politicians on the panel as well when it is appropriate with that constant caveat that it's never to take away from serious of musical.

How serious we treat the news agenda or indeed adequate level of scrutiny and challenge that we apply but I think you know doing both wearing your slightly different.

Hat you do change when you change your approach.

You don't change your content but where it's suitable.

I think both can feed into each other and that's probably a good thing across-the-board.

I sometimes referred to the newscaster furcation.

What's the news where I feel like the podcast market is actually having as much of an impact on other media as I was going the other way and I think go back to where we started you got on election night a lot of the TV channels covering that story across that night by using podcast Talent and I think clearly podcasting is impacting linear transmission as well head of BBC News podcast and Alex Forsyth thank you and of course.

Please do let me know your thoughts on the expanding world of BBC podcasts anything to do with BBC audio to get in touch and I've got a show on BBC sounds called Geoff Norcott so what do you think about the BBC audio output feedback is really keen to hear your take on what you been listening to a very easy way to get in touch with to send a WhatsApp voice note on 03.

3454 you can also ring that number and leave a voice message you can send us an email to feedback at bbc.co.uk and it's BBC R4 feedback on social media well, we'll have more from Geoff Norcott in just a few moments after we hear what two listeners think about his new 6:30 p.m.

Comedy series Radio 4 Geoff Norcott working men's club.

The club is imaginary the issues though a very real and he uses humour to explore some of what he sees as the unique challenges faced by men in the modern world from why men don't wear sunscreen to whether a man should just man up well.

We invited to young man into a box box to share their views on the programme man rolly hammer student at the University of Sunderland I'm Hamish I'm also a student here at the University of Sunderland from the same for somebody also produce.

Reminder she show called the toolbox together got here this program is my working men's club open up I really enjoyed the kind of audience interaction side of it.

I like to hear and you know him asked questions to the audience of the men who don't apply sunblock.

What's the main thing stopping you stupidity stupidity.

Maybe when it's my eyes are in the left knee not swear I operate.

Is there is a comedy show in the dog audience and no it's all man, but using you know phrases like man up dead times now.

We just need to let them and move away from them.

He gave us know when you're on the stag DE11 person's too cold, isn't it? Because you whispering to is ancient masculinity and older more conservative Manny's the world's changed when he's talking about go on holiday to automatically wear suncream.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, you know we were just like that.

We went for a walk this unless.

It's probably the hottest day with Adam the year so far it like maybe three to get into the shop and buy some stuff.

Obviously you really like his dad.

She's your warehouse.

That's slightly different to isn't to be fair to him.

He will speak out against toxic stoicism soldiering on is something blokes like the idea of my soldering on but it turns out there a solid reasons.

Why we shouldn't men are more likely to develop cancer and women are more likely to survive or have you got any diversion? Just calling out and using my a couple of days until you go onto the next stop being funny.

I feel like in the past so similar things I've listened to buy obviously would it be in 2024 now and doing a show like that? You do not have to be very careful with what you say, you don't know how to you know carry things forward but in terms of like that he really break into anything.

Did he really like do I think you know man I'm going to be away from that feeling better now.

Not really your work with everything is funny.

Yeah, because you know it's a comedy show all day well.

The last day for a comedy show like that like yeah like you can make any jokes out of anything, but it's kind of an area where personal going to record at too much talk about this like I never show on the toolbox.

We would love to get her dad's on the show I can already imagine that conversation it would just be stonewalled dry like is the one time I've seen my dad is Children in Need what was the Children in Need one year is it stupid yes, is it a bit immature? Yes, but laser germanism through something like that.

This is kind of

Anyway, I think you're gonna you're gonna break through and it's to accommodate through life.

He's not a proper mad left the comedian.

No self-described right wing libertarian.

You are obviously Dan he reaches an audience mean.

I've been reached by you know Josh Widdicombe more than this Kumar or whoever.

You know what you found some speaking to be showers most Malabar you know cold clinical oncology well.

Thank you to Rowley and Hamish London lighter to say that Geoff Norcott joins me now Jeff what did you think of what Hamish and really had to say but some of it and I wasn't as some of the other stuff.

I wasn't as certain about but but yeah, it's good to get the feedback.

They did say they enjoyed it of course but they didn't feel as well.

You're leaning to have on stereotypes about men.

I wonder do you agree with them.

Yes absolutely I mean a lot of my comedy comes from that was called Jeff Wilcox working men's club.

So I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise.

I'm very much playing to the middle in a way.

You know I think Radio 4 comedy output, but this is the show is on the shame of the playing to perhaps an experience that might not be articulated quite so the audience is brilliant litmus test if they laugh then the stereotype was brought in after it made sense and if they don't you why they went into the roles of unkindness or if they just didn't identify with it because Hamish and brought up this phrase man up but they clearly didn't like doing this job interview quite a lot of commissioners on feedback and the word that they often use authenticity they say they're looking for authenticity that you would say it's who you are even if perhaps a younger generation.

Is it comfortable with the reason that I use that phrase is because it will be uncontroversial in the circles that I move it and it is a good example of a phrase that you know once you're in the Liberal bubble for one of them.

Subway will raise an eyebrow and I'm not an advocate of using it in the old fashioned yellow put it all down in your get hernia.

Rather than talk about it that kind of thing I do think that there is forbearance particularly masculine version of forbearing certain circumstances in as I put in the show with standing privations to actually does have a place the second episode does go into how I talk about reclaiming that phrase I wonder if you think that this kind of content does land better with your overall audience because you actually it's not working class background and your I mean perhaps.

I don't know how you describe yourself, but maybe right of centre you certainly know you know public school educated liberal talking to men about there is a lot of great work going on with Radio 4 comedy at the moment to get a genuine and diversity of Voices now when we talk about diversity for a while.

It's meant one one thing or certain marginalised Communities but also.

That's one of the biggest differences between us that is one of the good things about the work is going on with the BBC is to recognise that the licence fee paid basis a very broad thing now.

I know that loads of working-class people listen to Radio 4 comedy over the years.

I have I'm on one of them, but I think that having a broad range of Voices and end of tonnes is a good thing to be doing that mean you say right.

It's probably the best way to put it in and the way politics is gone on the way, please come please God I'm not even edgy anymore.

I think I'm sorted like some sort of right wing centre his dad.

I think it's probably the best way for a radio for yourself.

It is known as having a lot of Lefty comedians.

I suppose that's only house for a long time.

I wonder do you ever feel like you're kind of token right wing comedian that gets called up particularly for example in the run-up to the election.

Just to make sure that there's a bit of balance, but I think I just being honest it will probably points earlier in my career that probably did happen diversity might get your foot in the door.

But if you can't do it, then then that would be paying for the obvious to everybody and I hope that when it comes to talking about the news and sort of topical issues in a in a hopefully a funny way.

I've I can't have it by the right.

Just simply having a few like that on the panel.

I hope everyone because then the left wing Comics have something to push up against right.

It's not just the everyone high fiving in the Hall of mirrors, and I'm in views the I'll just very I can understand how comedy can be a useful way to to look at things that men find it very hard to talk about but I wondered do you struggle with the delicate balance when it comes to how much you can actually joke about very serious top 1 of the day.

It's been levelled up comedy of late.

Is that it's been people have been making a point at the expense of the joke and I don't have her the thing called Clapton which is like people instead of laughter you get a clap first.

I'm not in the business of captor so if I'm going to make a point I really have to have a good joke about it first as you.

Play more serious subject that needs to be really turned right to say that and I think in the first episode of spoke about my dad's cancer diagnosis, you know talking about skin cancer and actually going back to the beginning of the show spoke about it.

They said I didn't really make any point.

I would slightly push back on that with combo.

You've got to be realistic.

You're not going to galvanise people's whole way of thinking is I just wanted place to think about and it's just a couple of blokes without their wives having to constantly remind them of the need to put on some block put on some but then that's great, but that's not my job.

You know and as the knowledge my job is a comic.

I'm there to get last first if you could sneak a little messaging under underneath that then so much the better that the audience contributed some really funny TV series.

I think it's something that Hamish mentioned as well.

I wondered if that surprise you when you were making us.

Well.

I still really argue for it to be in Leeds I said no I do wedding Leeds I don't know why but.

Remind me why because it was free but it's immediately the yorkshireman telly.

I find very funny.

It's very sort of light not ours and negative word, but they really mind that for comedic effect so every time I went to them these off be some sort of chocolate responses that we got to the day of recording it if I just come up with all this not move the whole production turn off, but they deliver I look forward on the records for asking those questions, but I wasn't always sure what the responses might be well.

Good luck with the rest of the series and thank you very much Geoff Norcott for joining us on feedback, and that's it for this week from me and the team.

Thank you for listening and for giving us your feedback hello.

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