Read this: Inside the US campus protests

I'm Helena Bonham Carter and this is Histories secret Heroes in the series will hear stories of daring secret missions and really tales from World War II like Emily the enigmatic high-ranking code breaker.

And I'm on the escape artist interned in a German Camp tales of danger dynamism and downright determination the new series of history secret Heroes First on BBC sounds music Radio podcasts, this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 this week, we're looking at the pro Palestinian protest on us campuses, it's been a huge story in the US media as some of the most important reporting has been done by students.

Will talk to one of them and assessing the media coverage of protest as managing editor after Israel band Al Jazeera TV accusing it being a mouthpiece for Hamas something else is here and denies to talk about what it's like to cover the Met gala the annual fashion fest in New York that Sparks front pages showcasing.

She's in weird and wonderful outfits to look at how the media strategies of the political parties are evolving and we got a test case earlier today when the now former Conservative MP Natalie across the floor to the labour benches, just before the start of Prime Minister's Questions that thing and pepper career from the Guardian Ben riley-smith from the Telegraph and welcome to both of you bending coming.

I didn't know the first giveaway was a ping on my phone bang on noon.

When labour press released Natalie elphicke statement explaining why she was crossing the floor the I wasn't sat in the loop.

What about you?

Does the same I have been here as well if I've been in the loop I would definitely have you know treated or break the story not come back to it by minister's question so unfortunately unfortunately weren't but it was taken by surprise because she's probably the last person on any of our lists to that expected to move over to leave right wing for the fact that Ben's phone went off and I'm sure yours did to Pippa perhaps suggest that this and most things in Westminster are choreographed by the parties are tempted to be choreographed by the parties paper is the keywords.

They would very much like to be in control of when we find things out and how we find them and how we present them but unfortunately for them because it's a job to you to find out what's really going on and to write a bio that isn't often the case that will be extra few of them this time for managing to keep it quiet.

Very small circular people that knew about her affection and just quickly benefit from Birmingham talking more detail later Beau when you send your phone when paying is that a WhatsApp a text message and email what's labels preferred communication these days election night all doing their announcements, so I think we're all sitting in prime Minister's Questions on our WhatsApp thing and that's how we saw it alright to talk about that a little bit later with you and with our colleagues in the BBC news, and it sounds quite a lot like the media show WhatsApp because level does pinging all the time but we going to start today with the pro-palestinian Campus protests.

We've seen some of the ok, but they're on a much larger scale in the US they pose challenges and questions for American journalism and student journalist have been Central to the coverage of the story that before we meet I guess that's just remind.

What happened so this process started at Columbia University in New York in mid-april according to ABC tally they have now been demonstrations that nearly 140 colleges across 45 States and Washington DC to according to the AP news agency around two-and-a-half thousand people have been arrested at campuses across the us and the protesters demanding a number of things including that their colleges the best from Israel now.

It's on locations.

Please have been sent in not least at Columbia University in New York that was seen as being hugely significant not least because it's the first time in masarus on colombia's campus is the Vietnam war protests more than 50 years ago also in interviews with the BBC Jewish students at several campuses have spoken since that made them feel uncomfortable ranging from chance and signed supporting Hamas which is a proscribed terror group to physical altercations and perceived threats.

Is a covering the story first with Richard Hall who's the Independent senior US correspondent and not a student Richard welcome to the media show I know you were at Columbia University in New York what did you actually see I'm interesting experience actually because I was I was sick in bed for the first few days of the process.

So I got to experience as a news consumer and importer so I went down after several days of coverage of this kind of riotous dangerous event was taking place when I got there was quite organise polite encampment.

They were people that were designated to speak to the media.

They had was called a nut zone that was better than that seen in Kidderminster to stop people with allergies getting sick and it was it was interesting for me to see both of those side.

How can we give a trade it and when I got those reporting expensive myself, what did

How do you reflect on that then I can see what happens actually going down there access to the Campus was quite restricted most of the time gone for a couple of hours a day.

Speak to people outside of the Campus there was essentially a ring counter protesters and people that come to Protest the protest and if you can imagine the kind of people that Wednesday afternoon to go down there and shouting students or shower people shouting students.

I don't think it was very representative of what was going on inside the cabinet.

So there was this impression that these people causing trouble outside connected to the protests in some way and then and I wasn't ok when it comes to the people you met inside is it right you know that they've been studying the media Tactics of the Vietnam war protest as of the 60s music by that that's right actually I went down with the with the intention of talking to that 6-year old tested something I've noticed University and I want to ask.

No, this is directions from 68 Heron what you're doing and everyone I spoke to say yes, we know it's deliberate.

We actually went into the Archives of the studied what the 68 protesters did we studied their Tactics resetting carried out with the media even the idea of encampment they better than 68.

So they were very aware of it was deliberate to copy what they did and learn from them and what what does that strategy involved and how did you say one of them? Was this very professional way Al with the media and being closed off at the actress the camp they had a star from South and the students of designated a few people to speak to the press and they had some very like your training as just eating and how long to get ripped out if you can imagine the pressure kept outside the Campus in this huge line and let it certain time you have 100 journalists warming.

You have six or seven students.

Just just trying to feel all these question of this fighting over then that was one of the things that they learn from 68 was just this discipline of message make sure they say the right thing and there was going to because I saw that sound of my brother jealous in America been criticising the protesters for not speaking to media outlets it sounds to me like it was easy for you to speak to the people who been designated but you couldn't just go around asking other students to talk to you or did you try that what I wonder what your take is on what on what people say about that? I was a couple of times but completely understand.

What is auto situation.

I don't want to talk to you and there were people that are available and I did see agency complaints from people who couldn't get people to talk to him and that was interesting because this is part of the media training.

I think they were very very because of that media coverage in the first week.

Don't worry about speaking to so21 student at one point and said.

Talk to you a few minutes.

What's your name my name you Google me in 2 seconds and he saw my reading out my burgerfy to know you and I think you found someone had trouble getting into you didn't trust them about what what vagina said about you know the protest criticising the protesters for not speaking and actually I suppose it's that sense of should journalists expect that people do speak to them.

Is it a right as a to expect the people will give you an interview absolutely not know you have to build trust with people you want to write about that's one of the key lessons you learn German you can't just demand people.

Speak to you have been pilloried in the press the previous for 5 days and you can you can understand why they were nervous about speaking to you and you mentioned the media training.

What what what?

Did you observe in terms of what that meant in terms of how they gave interviews and what they said that they will be very careful.

They didn't want to get into these wide-ranging conversations the deviate from that he demands they were very careful to point out what they're asking for the reasons.

They were there so I think it was just a discipline message disappear politicians called yeah, it was very nice and the message.

Can you mention it you weren't able to get in for a couple of hours a day or jealous.

Will let in for a couple of hours a day.

What would that involve you were queuing up for that moment or you were told the designated time and did that me an example the students occupy one the university Hamilton Hall last Tuesday were you able to get access to campus that night was that outside the designated 2-hours happens.

Exeter campus Exeter close down even to students, it was only students who lived on campus who can have access and the restrictions are in place.

It was managed by the university there was he don't want to shut down from University as a famous school.

So they don't want to shut down access to the first completely but it was it was very highly managed to get we have to queue up outside the Mandy's counter protesters.

I need to call on purchasing Bankside do a shouting at each other in the sites and it on the night of the occupation University shutdown shutdown several City blocks don't know journalists and that's the really there could get access to the immediate area to watch From a Distance as he's got the morning to do to the building through the machinery Close explain you described it as a war zone.

What did you mean by that I mean.

People being shot aesthetically and look like some kind of military operation.

They would doesn't and doesn't have my tea vehicles hundreds of cups with zip ties swimming the area pinched myself because I've been on the Campus of few days earlier on seeing the students who described themselves as essentially nerds doing homework on the lawn.

That's the description to see this huge military police responses was the occupation of the building came after that students.

Did you worry that language using the term warzone was inflammatory or are you happy with it? It's covered Wars I know I know that word definitely so it's better me and looks like a once.

I didn't it wasn't obviously it was a literary and I think you did you come across student jealousy will also trying to get access to do.

Did you enjoy it?

Ginger little while you're coming at you everywhere that they were every Barricades in every side street, and they had special offers on deeply deeply impressed by their commitment to get out there and get involved and I saw student protesters following the live stream of the radio station and that was there that was there to keep up-to-date on what's happening everywhere from Independent thank you because they've been commended by the Pulitzer Prize board for covering protests and unrest in the face of personal and Academic risk Julia Vargas Jones as a master's student at Columbia journalism school and also a freelance reporter Julia welcome to the media show I know that you are covering some of the events for CNN just tell us how that happened.

Thank you for having me.

In the moment, I got a call from another bath made.

You should be here.

You should be here right now, so I took me about an hour to get down there still open as described University closed after to everyone even student if I had a ride nearly 30 minutes later.

I will have been allowed on campus and was only because of that community of students.

Do just let me know it was going on and then I got honestly I didn't even ask about 67 hours in and I did talk to people you know it was able to talk to people not Media training.

And I want to record for the entire world you know about to go live on I need to know what's going on here.

What happened after obviously been used to be able to build with some of the protesters and then I was outside there all day and having a sense of how they were operating supplies and they were and preparing for the evening with my arms as the NYPD started encircling the campers more and more people start driving in joining and I'm interested.

So you call up seeing in you say I'm here.

I can go on there as soon as you like but what are the practical?

That because you've been woken up at 3 a.m.

In the morning.

You've rush down to where the story is.

What are the practicalities of of getting on now.

I'm assuming you're using your phone or am I wrong one of them will be used was another app called live used to live you smart app that the reporters use that is popular and tripod with ring light and microphone wireless microphones and in headset very simple bare bones now the day we were able to recruit and fellow and master students to help me into my camera operators at some point we will pass S21

Places where is located and I couldn't go back into charge stay up for hours and hours on end, but the biggest challenge of the coverage was eventually started dying battery is running out and we just had to me so it's such a live message.

So every time these something that I was probably trying to figure out another word just before I could talk to the what are you dealing with all of that and you were no doubt counting lots of other students who were reporting on it you mentioned Columbia journalism school.

I know and makeshift Newsroom was was established to deal with the level of interest in this story.

Just tell us what that was like.

I have to come and go for everything to help continue recording a lot of people arrive there.

After all the games for clothes in in the Queen and physically escort people into the building in one of the main water advice from very established processes people that have been in the industry for 3040 years this was pivotal for the coverage that you are sore happened on Monday and Tuesday without that kind of support your focus was on the processes.

They were unfolding it sounds like a lot of student reporters were focused on that too and have caused that was there the story that everyone wanted here in that moment, but will you also able to speak to students who were about being made to feel uncomfortable by the process but we weren't present at the scene.

I only came into this coverage very late on Saturday cover you before I did and I thought you know this other students who have experienced and when I came in was that they had some sort of evidence that I'm told Columbia student too comfortable and in that sentiment.

I didn't hear from some of my fellow students was finishing apologies.

one with a large encampment on everything and I just wondered finally you and lots of other students were keen to cover the story not least because your studying journalism in Your Enthusiasm to cover it now plenty of experience of reporting but I assume some of the students at Columbia haven't necessarily covered the story of this nature before did the journalism school offer advice on how to safely go about the story and every day talking to people imagine this makes up Newsroom with only 40 students and time in about 10 different members and

This I think it was probably the best education in this is going to get thanks for speaking to us that Julia Vargas Jones master student at Columbia journalism school, how effective the protesters have been about getting their message out by the media and how media coverage especially by the mainstream has shaped America's perspective on the protests at something that which was talking about earlier a dog McLeod is professor of journalism at the University of wisconsin-madison welcome to the media show I know you've been studying Media frames protest than you use an interesting time to talk about the protest paradigm.

Just explain what you mean by that.

Yeah, we've been studying social media coverage of social protest for over 35 years.

We've studied across a variety of different protest contacts both left and right groups abortion environmental groups black lives matter anarchist's a whole host of different types of protests tablets and one of the things that emerge when we looked at mainstream newspapers and television coverage of these protest was a certain common pattern of covering social Protest the stories look pretty similar in terms of structure and the way the protest was covered in that's what we call the protest a way of covering sofa protest that news organisations can fall into in your view is really getting caught in looking for dramatic stories dramatic images looking for say conflicts between protesters and police or between protesters on one Saturday shooting protesters on the other.

Is rich talked about before it looks like they were seen and it makes a great video images but one of the real problems is that the issues the underlying issues of the protests of get lost in the in the process? Are you saying that the media isn't interested in peaceful protest.

I'm wondering play.com national protests that stands up to have Express an opinion to try to influence public policy and a given issue is unlike you get a lot of media attention unless they can create the drama that the journalist are often looking for written journalist photojournalism must play a big role here.

It's hard to take a picture of someone commonly sort of critiquing public park.

Or stating there the goals of the protest and so trust naturally gravitate interesting video that's going to track the eyeballs readers to look at the story in your office it clashes with the police.

You are fancy incidence of property damage even though in many of these protests the people are actually engaged with a police or other colour protesters is a small fraction of the larger protest group when it comes to these protests that we've been so you know certainly across American and wider here in the UK some people have been saying that the student protest overshadowed their cores has message through or has a message cut through do you think and how does that reflect the coverage pretty good example if you're talking about the protest paradigm?

Set timer 10 hours Consett and the police removing the encampments from campus in arresting protesters is pretty similar to the the protesters been covered across campuses on the 9th what the protesters are looking for in terms of things like that vasmant are sort of briefly acknowledge Whitney little exploration of what the vestment mean.

What are the Investments of the university in Israel with companies that supply the Israeli military? What is it? That is problematic about what universities are doing that have led to the complaints that the protesters are trying to allege against the administration.

It's very hard as member of the public to really divine what it is that the protesters all about him, so if you

Set alarm after discussion of what the process is about protest.

Look forward to your very disruptive particularly radical Tactics of the protesters focused on their issues.

Can't get lost in the Clare I suppose.

There's a chicken and egg situation.

Isn't there when it comes to the coverage which is it and you can get it for another perspective.

Is it that you know the protesters whether it's just you are the protesters that you've looked at that.

They know they need to deliver.

I would like to call the media stunts, but I will they need to deliver something for the media.

That's going to make the media interested enough to cover it is that something you look absolutely buying that protesters are in the damned if they do the damned if they don't if they remain calm and rational they get ignored to engage often in dramatic civil disobedience complex with pleased that attracts the cameras, but the problem is the nature of the cupboards.

They received.

It's this protest paradigm that often served.

Play Jeremiah the protest itself and so when have you got me this dance particularly distance that you could point to which you say did work most effectively in terms of messaging back at the Civil Rights Movement in the 1950s and 60s with lunch counter sit-ins with peaceful marches where the protesters were very disciplined not to can you put the police didn't mean that the police wagon attack down with water cannons in attack dogs and but they were very disciplined in terms of making a clear the good guys and the bad guys were using symbolic things.

I think things like the Pride flag has been really really effective in the sense that the symbol itself is very inclusive.

It's a rainbow readily identifiable.

It's a reminder of The Corrs that those groups are staying up for another example.

I think in 2020 and Madison we had a lot of.

Protest about in the aftermath of the George Floyd shooting a murder I should say that you're causing a lot of violence and broken Windows got a lot of delegitimize delegitimizing protest paradigm covered, but I give a huge part to the black lives matter protesters to recover from the store front Windows Wirral border.in.

What are the things? They did was turned our storefront boarded up windows in the canvases, they created protest art that got a lot of attention really effective in getting your message across and even a local organisation created a but they distributed for free that featured the wonderful protest art that accompany protest.

It was a quick recovery from some of the delegitimizing coverage of the got earlier.

Thank you three perspectives on these campus protest let's hear.

More which owned by China from BBC monitoring with some Jerusalem and we're going to speak to you about a couple of subjects on today's Media show but I was interested to ask you spend your time looking at media coverage that you can view from Jerusalem I wonder how these campus process have been covered in Israel very clear end Israeli Media you think it's important to understand kind of as a starting point.

There's a really Media does not really cover happens and Gaza from a humanitarian.

They're very little images of the civilian impact of Israel's military actions there, so then is really have a really hard time comprehend dinner understanding the anger is in white people protesting on college campuses in the US so the media kind of used interchangeable terms like Empires ro process and and

Protest without ever mentioning Gaza whatever it without ever mentioning that caused the reason why students were protesting and they take these images of that we were talking about the Most Extreme cases of violence in the user to kind of question and perhaps you would admire some people would say the protest movement at Ward without contextualising it at would the actions of American police have been covered in Israel's Media there is certainly a focus on the violence that was put me on the nature of the process as opposed to the police where you would get more of that kind of critical commentary and coverage in American media.

I think for this really media with mostly cannot the focus was to show how radical an extreme these protests protest how dangerous it was for the Jewish students who go to the scores and how kind of

Dad anti-semitism is in the US and it kind of strength in this war narrative.

Is there a been a Jewish state is really needed to protect itself against rising anti-semitism Chinese going to be staying with us.

Just before we carry on talking with you.

Let me say thanks to Richard Hall professor Doug MacLeod and Julia Vargas Jones have been with us as we talked about those campus protests in the US let's stick with what's happening in Israel because it's Welsh government shutdown the operations of the Al Jazeera television network in the country for the duration of its wall in Gaza here's a clip of their to London Imran Khan announcing the move to viewers on Sunday if you're watching this pre-recorded report than Al Jazeera has been banned in the territory of Israel on April the kinetic the Israeli Parliament passed a law that allowed the prime minister to ban Al Jazeera enacted that lol that was Al Jazeera is Imran Khan Prime Minister Benjamin

Who says the Israeli cabinet agreed to the closure while the war in Darfur is ongoing as I said Shane Oppenheimer from BBC monitoring Jerusalem you are still here.

Just to tell us.

Why why it's government I mean in general is really still not view out Jazeera quite favourably as I mentioned there isn't really a lot of how is really policies affect Palestinian civilians, so there's an inability to understand where our visitors are coming from in that sense now during the war and then there's this long time accusation that works kind of kudos with most people in Israel certainly as a mouthpiece up long time is Rose Nazi now20 favourably and certainly one this War started this idea of perhaps doing something just shut its operations has kind of Bean

Ground and the timing was quite sensitive because at the end of the day aljazeera is based in Qatar and guitarist quite a key player in the go see ations with hummus and negotiation right now ask me.

Why why now we've known for a long time that Israel has the views about Al Jazeera the walls been going on long time since way before then.

Why why now when it could have taken this decision anytime before now that is there a with apps looking to put pressure on guitar to perhaps that pressure on her must reach some kind of Dior and the second is that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is a different kind of domestic pressure on there's pressure from the hostage families to agree to and from some of them or centrist minister.

In his work cabinet to agree to that, but there is also very signifi cant pressure from some of his far-right Cabinet ministers were quite key to his political survival to take more like cutting out of your and like going ahead with an invasion of Raphael which is the southernmost city of Gaza which is erotic steps to do this week, so it's possible that netanyahu's tried to kind of Horsham moves that might keep his very crucial base happy with the way that the worst going so the police stay with us on you show let's bring in Mohamed mobile whose managing editor of Al Jazeera and with a slide from Doha Mr murder.

Thank you very much indeed for your time following this Mr Netanyahu cleaned in a statement that aljazeera reporters had hand Israel security and inside against soldiers and has called your network and hummus mouthpiece.

How do you respond to that?

Aldi store on founding unfounded baseless allegations that Israeli government, is is is is unleashing against dust and this is the least dangerous action being taken against of the Year with most frequently covering from the front line this conflict and they were targeted by air strikes so to be honest.

This is the least dangerous action by the Israeli government and this is something that we have heard before against aljazeera from Delta variant Everest windows shutdown offices for ages with the aftermath of the Arab Spring and this is the same authoritarian and to be honest we will see that as a way to conceal what's happening inside as well.

We heard today from Israel Hyundai

The minister of Justice in Israel just told by the family is that he is watching Al Jazeera because he knows Arabic and he's watching to follow.

What's happening when does not telling them much about what's going.

Let me let me pick up on a couple of things first of all Israel denies targeting Al Jazeera journalists indeed.

It denies target all journalists also the Israeli Israel Israeli intelligence accuses Al Jazeera of Revealing the locations of the Israel Army in some of your coverage.

Do you accept the maps in some of your coverage? You have accidentally giving away information that could put Israel's military at risk.

I don't think covering from the Frontline of the conflict giving voice to the voiceless uncovering the atrocities committed and that was described by the United Nations and other humanitarian organisations as

I don't think this is revealing positions for his ID for sale or something like that.

This is a fine journalism.

This is the core mission of journalism around and that's our mission will giving voice to the voiceless reporting that doesn't side and we reported that is really safe.

I mean wearing a statement by Israeli government of fishing and being criticised by the way in the Middle Eastern people are tattoos sizing us and saying that Al Jazeera is giving a platform for 4 days really government lies and that we are earring after them what countries are saying because they go on there and say we we care about civilians and then we report that hungry are killed.

Let me ask you about the issue of quoting Israeli officials or even speaking to them as you well know many pan-arab network don't broadcast interviews with Israeli officials.

Always has done now that you've been banned in Israel will you continue to try and speak to Israeli officials and continue to broadcast their statements.

We continue to do that because this is our mission to make sure that our coverage is crucial that what day is really government is trying to do is delegitimize our coverage by saying that we don't talk rate them, but no we have we abide by the law we moved our correspondent seremala to be best there.

We don't know if that is really government is going to take action against our office in Welwyn there for them there and they are reporting what's happening in Israel from there and we are making sure that we live stream all the statement by the Israeli government because that's the core aspects of from the beginning of this organisation 26 years back.

So this is your immediate reaction to the ban by Mr Netanyahu and his colleagues.

Anything further that you can do about this.

Can you challenge the band legally of course that we've started the process.

We are representing all legal action to make sure you know can't Adidas founded allegation and we are sure that you know that the whole is there a d government and the israelis now been because they are using the same play Book of the Italian region than in the Middle East but they calling themselves democracy, so let's see if the institutions are going to the freedom of speech and you know the Freedom of zonna still parade in Israel in front of the course.

Can I ask you about a more long-term decision of Al Jazeera from Israel but more broadly your coverage is anti-israel.

Do you accept that you are offering a particular perspective to your viewers across the region?

We're not in the business of pleasing anyone as you know so sometimes they say that we give we are and you said I said because we open the platform is radio fishes and sometimes they say that we are on with this is when you are you believe that you're doing because you're not here to please anyone I was the United Nations ambassador to the United Nations ambassador told the press back then when there is the Ukraine war broke.

You said that isn't going to silence and now we are receiving criticism from an Ally of the United States that's how it happened.

I mean we if you report post party if you are committed to recruiting both narrative.

You are going to face this criticism from one side or not.

Can I ask you one final practical question all big broadcasters around.

Have contacts have connections with the government's that they report on at the moment after this ban.

Do you and your Al Jazeera colleagues have an open Channel of communication with the Israeli government it is for them to decide not to speak to us, but we keep asking them to come on Al Jazeera everyday.

We proposed everyday we request that you are Israeli official to come over and we are earring all their statements even that idea for school personal statement.

Just yesterday.

We are the oldest countries that was on so we keep pushing to have them come on our screen to make sure that we are cheap dimension that we have two narratives of the story and that's our our our our peacebuilding journalism that we are committed to Mohammed more white managing editor of Al Jazeera with us from Doha thank you very much indeed for speaking to the media show and shine Oppenheimer

BBC monitoring thank you, but I want to tell you something very very different now, but it would have been hard to miss the photographs earlier in the week splashed across the media as stars carpet in sometimes questionable and often entirely impractical outfits for the annual met gala in New York City isn't the point I get that I've just want to give you a the jamboree food for the dozens of photographers at the event here is the arrival of Ariana Grande and Cynthia erivo where you go out? It's a hugely profitable commingling of celebrities sponsors and brands overseen by Vogue magazine Supremo and a winter the matter is the source of seemingly endless coverage fascinating and baffling in equal measure and looking after so that we've got someone who was there to cover it here on the media show.

Play the you and features reported by the Washington Post some people won't have seen the photos the others will just explain though, how big a media event is the Met Ball it's issued in it comprises not just the red carpet which is kind of famous along the steps of the museum of art in this time was not read but actually green and beige with headers of real plants along the side of that is a huge production potential up there for you.

Have just hundreds of reporters and photographers inside the crumbles then you also have a side show that social media has been happening nearby hotels, where crowds gather to just take photographs of start of their getting the van drive to Blacks over 2.

The Museum and yeah, it's just it doesn't say and how do you get your spot? Where do you stand as a reporter where were you this time? Where were away at the top when I'm at the other end of the pipe work it out the whole game and being other other than just taking in the sites of these ridiculous outfits and the crash of celebrity.

That's coming through is the train get them to come and talk to you and certain people if you have a large video camera.

You're probably in a better position to get someone then if you have a cell phone video camera or but people were there in the world really able to grab people pretty well, but people with go to tiktok remix remind me when I was coming.

On the red carpet next to Spotify and even though lots of people didn't come to the BBC more people went to Spotify I noticed because all he asked them was what music.

Have you been listening to what you put your outfit on the variety reporters in the Hollywood reporter reporters seem to get more people than we do they serve a purpose all the time and I can't that's that's a bit of the game which is the washing in person the New York Times are on every red carpet does out there in so the start of the time my videographer found a box and we just jumped up on Top of the Pops that we were taller than everyone else in this sort out a little bit louder and that's how we managed to get some food and who did you get to speak to you Lana Del Rey Jeff Goldblum Nicole Kidman

30 people and I'm interested because I noticed that there were just no political statements at all that at the Met gala, and and you know when I'm covered other events after the beginning of Ukraine will people wearing Ukraine from time-to-time politics punch's out, but not there is it were there any political state is there a ban on them and you didn't miss any weird better to the election year and there wasn't anything in 2021.

We had Alexandria ocasio-cortez came in a white dress that said tax the rich and the political statements happening outside the night protest came down and people get arrested at the oven Aniston and Donald Trump is on trial in the city.

So that was quite a lot going on everything.

I'm always fascinated by is what actually happens inside because they are parading in the Most Extreme

Comfortable looking outfits made of sand and incredible headgear and whatever else do they that's obviously for the photographs? I know one of things that go with the public has very little idea.

What does happen inside simply because there is no social media posting that's all band, but you know what they do they go in and change immediately into something more comfortable.

They stay stick like that for the whole evening.

Yeah.

I know even though I've never been reported receiving able to get in but it's it's mostly close to the press.

I think that most of them take off their giant strains and their huge have some Lana Del Rey a crown of thorns and I hope for everyone's sake around her that she didn't have his own still I think it's just a party is a party inside them and Beyonce might get up and saying it on.

And Incredibly early, I mean Rihanna's always in our relationship, but usually and she's walking people are leaving and they're going to the after Friday ok sounds great party the nominee jealous invited you but one day Jada one day dua for the washington-based.

Thanks so much right we started out by talking about politics and the media we're gonna finish their two because while we don't know when the general election is going to be we know it's going to be sooner rather than later.

Let's bring back in FIFA Career from the Guardian Ben riley-smith of the Daily Telegraph and we're joined by my colleague from BBC news from BBC news lane in a political correspondent in bed.

I'm interested in the few days that follow the local elections last year.

What have you noticed about? How the party is a try to handle the media and promote their message perhaps people we can start with you because the results were better for them.

That has been for the Conservative Party they've been quite.

Able to meet their argument that it was like geography but the elections showed the Maryland the local showed with that labour is able to win back in different parts of the country.

So not just planning on seats in the cities in London and Manchester and Liverpool where they took back the mayoralty but also reaching into the South the so-called to the Blue wall, where they took seats and places including Crawley Swindon Thurrock and Rushmere is just right down the road from from Aldershot to obviously the one of the the basis of the British Army so it was an easy herself of them will be so hard questions to answer about using some of the community centre in photosynthesis by Crystal Windscreens it was tougher for Rishi Sunak of course because those votes those elections went were for him and party and when and then let's bring you in when the parties are trying to establish and narrative in the media.

Will they just send you a message or they sometimes pick up the phone and a look and the way you wrote that story just

Starting up correctly with a try and make the case to you personally yeah absolutely they're doing in the locals.

It seems think so their kind of before and after before they are trying to frame everybody's expectations who took that expectation management and just want to try and creates know if you won the results drop you think I did little bit better than I thought I'm not that can be trying to downplay the number seats they think they will game that can be down playing the chances.

They think they have in a particular.

They are winning and they can do that over the phone often giving them their spin and then turn off the almost like drawing journalist detentions two different sets of back so the results are there in black and white but they will try and put their own interpretations on them so some of them overnight will on these subgroups where they will be paying different results like oh look labour take this cancel that shows the winning in the blue wall or have you seen that actually the soaps I dropped over here or reformed it particularly badly and that not cutting through and then.

Is afterwards they are trying to in the Tories case cannot find silver linings and clouds are the one thing Rishi Sunak zoomed in on was this analysis that suggested possibly if the replicator Nationwide that could be a hung Parliament that's better, then.

I got a decent amount of coverage from BBC News let's bring you in because while Ben and pick her primary writing their stories of course doing lots of broadcasting much of it is live and I just wondered as your broadcasting especially on a story like the local elections which plays out over a number of days, so you're on here a lot.

Are you sometimes hearing from the Seas as your Broadcasting

Of real-time real-time communication you know over this was the day but I think you know what different the expectation management appointment with the weekend reflecting as we get it in away is there it's kind of you know we getting from one.

This is happening and you can colour reflects that in the coverage.

They will look when hearing the way we can provide the interpretation that says ok.

Will try to manage expectations in the way, so you know yes, we're getting stuff, but obviously it's our job to them provide the context about the powerlifter that is getting so so yeah, there's a driving what you're getting from the parties of the different as you didn't receive it.

I should also say you're speaking to some central lobby at the moment and I spoken to you on here on BBC News many a time when you're when you're there in the middle of your broadcasting will politicians or their colleagues and communication.

I'm up to you.

Well.

I mean it's only employment you bump into people mean.

That's one that's being here that you do people so yes, I mean even though the lunch for example.

You might bump into somebody apparently, but obviously they are keen to put their lines forward at every opportunity and yeah having a chat to people that evening apologies if you can hear that but yeah, but there is always a if you are somebody who communicates information to anyone who was speaking to you know that to get there are the lines out but I mean I think WhatsApp is it is the mode of choice everyone sending messages.

You know sometimes just more broadly in you know you're getting real-time dissection of speeches from labour example of a government minister.

You said this before you know you know just seems to be aware of because we are about 3 minutes left.

I just want to turn with all three of you too looking ahead to the election.

Get your crystal ball that will don't but in terms of how the media strategies are evolving you say which which platforms matter are going to matter the most to parties in its upcoming election whenever it comes.

I think what has happened is that over the last 5 years this much less of a focus on it is traditional print media and much more focused on what happened.

Did you sleep but then you know at organisations like The Guardian we are we have been digital-first for a very long time.

So you know we can be super quick we can get on table on phones and we can be created in the way we present video and audio as well.

Not quite you know exactly the same.

But nevertheless you know in that territory and I think I think they're all going to have to do and all three of us some regards mainstream Media organisations.

It's been in this election coming up as I started to be in 2019 is going to be in in the in the social media space and that mean YouTube private WhatsApp group something Facebook and that we're going to be conscious.

It will be there will be trying to you know what sort of put their message across been very unconventional a new ways and that space then some of the side of the trust and authority that comes to organise my car's won't be there so we can have to make sure that we are present in this basis as well and then riley-smith your view on which platform is masha and also I suppose who the politicians are trying to court are they still are people trying to call the Murdoch's might you know murdocks back labour this time might I suppose my the Telegraph your paperback reform then what they are.

And I think fundamentally still the most dominant medium is broadcasting the number of people who are watching the News at Ten all the news at 6.

It's just higher than papers and other things again and think it is right in saying the younger botez tiktok Instagram Twitter and how quickly you know random meme such as Rishi Sunak Adidas trainers.

They're actually projector particular perception of him and whether he's in touch with people and yes definitely you know the media buttons and probably much less influential now than they were 30 years ago just because there's a few of people reading that you can see that case tomo is attending Rupert Murdoch's and garden parties and May the X or the sun end up back in labour.

That will be moments or beer few moments then a couple of decades ago and I'm sure that the Telegraph will keep on reporting that division between Reform and the Tories I would expect us to end up back in The Tourist for that is there a decision far far above my paygrade?

Play Layla briefly asked you who would you say do you think that the Murdoch's going to end up backing backing labour this time round in the last 20 seconds that we've got one try it but just kind of building what goes in bed.

I said you know I don't think anyone the mainstream Media is it worth getting left behind.

I don't think it's the case that the parties are going right these social media exclusively they doing all and as you know the BBC is doing that as well.

So it's important to know that as well and then we can be ready on social media.

So I think it is more work, but everybody all round get arrested out on this compilation of Layla Benn and Pippa thank you very much indeed.

I'm afraid we are just about of time does the light to phone Richard Hall Julia Vargas Jones professor Doug MacLeod Shane Oppenheimer J yuan and Mohamed mobile from Al Jazeera is it for this? Thank you very much indeed for list.

Will be back the same time next week for both of us by imallexx.

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