Read this: The BAFTAs are coming...

Hello Media podcast listeners, we have a special treat for you today producer Matt has been hard at work on a series with BAFTA looking at all the nominees of the BAFTA TV awards 2024 so here for your listening.

Pleasure is a rundown of all the best documentaries available right now on your favorite streaming services choice your hosted Alex Zane and you'll also hear from Media pod regular Faraz Osman and if you like what you hear.

They are new episodes of this week covering the comedy and entertainment nominees just search for countdown to the baftas on your favourite podcast app or perhaps the one you're listening to this on we put a leak in the show notes as well over tallaght hello and welcome again to this celebration of television excellence and this is countdown to the baftas where in this series stars industry insiders annexe voices join forces to disgusting nominees in the running for the 2024 BAFTA TV awards with P&O Cruises and the BAFTA television craft awards today.

We are taking a look at the

Actual categories as we Delve into the best documentaries of the last year always assumes that I say champs, but I never say chips because it's so like humans that they're all assholes and not only is it part succession Park Brazilian soap opera is shots so beautifully so, what does it take to be nominated for a BAFTA stay tuned to find out now the BAFTA TV awards are voted for by industry professionals and that voting has now closed so anything we say and do on This podcast has no influence on the results and crucially we do not know who has one but that doesn't stop as champion.

What has been another Stella year?

Hilary Duff actual TV and who better to run through the nominees with me today then foreign affairs journalist documentary filmmaker and author were meeting up and next to say it's a managing director of TV company gold Weller Ferrers Orsman welcome to both of you.

How are you? Thank you good to have you here so let me begin with u m just to give us a sense of your incredible and distinguished career.

Can you tell us a bit about what you went through and what was involved in making your award winning ITV documentary Afghanistan No Country for women and I guess the experience virtually going Undercover on the ground in Afghanistan you know what this is one of the moment big up commissioning editor for commissioning this so quickly Tom Giles before the taleban actually took over Afghanistan

My pitch this months and months before anyone thought the Taliban was going to take over the thought that was going to 4 and I was only prepared for people to say we know there is swimming and Afghanistan we've had a million x before of course we know that story but I've been tracking what was happening to women as the town of Armagh slowly taking over country and provinces were starting to fall and I thought this is a great litmus test of what the country will be like once the taleban takes over the course then it's only became reality telephone did and then it took a moment to we still do this.

Yes, of course we still do this and we waited for the taleban to take over because it was saying all the right things so it took a few months before we decided to go in and we spent about 30 days from the first trip and about two weeks on the second trip and

Ended up doing a little bit of undercover filming in in in Italian prison, which is the evidence that we needed to show that at that point the Taliban were sick abducting women from the streets and imprisoning them and there was no record that was his woman would just going missing was no record of them in the prison system and it will take the family is quite a few weeks until they found out where they were what is going through your head is your in that prison.

Are you still focused on I want to get the best footage.

I want to get what I need From This Moment or are you thinking this is bloody danger? I'm thinking oh my god.

I hope I just turned on that the secret filming equipment because I can't remember if it's one flashing red light or two flashing red lights so nervous.

I really didn't know if I was actually filming that was what I was scared about also I had to turn on the secret filming equipment surrounded by over a dozen armed.

Talos and that moment was yeah was pretty scary.

My hand was shaking a little yeah, you'll be going that by it's a commissioning added to when it comes to developing an idea for a documentary.

What are you looking for? Are there certain things that let you know straight up that this idea will work.

I think we have a real gift in this country because we've got people that you know as we just heard that just wanna tell incredible stories and we'll go so above and beyond any way to make sure they still we get told and as a result really the expectation the level that you have to get to to get a film made requires so much work and background and Peru so I kind of really feel like it is bottling lightning the reality is that we're trying to find a stories that the feel you know Stranger than Fiction you know that's how we get all your stuff to it.

What's your film to go away and safe way? I can't believe that the real world is actually like that.

That's when you know you've got a hit on your hands and I think that was really privileged in the UK meticulous to be so good at this sad, so people that just willing to be so diligent about finding the best stories to get them into people's homes and and have the ability to tell them I mean exactly as we heard there are lots of places around the world.

I just don't get the opportunity to have their story but the reality is it kind of comes down to two three things I think it's it's a talent who's telling that film both in front and behind the camera.

It's the access that you're getting to make sure that it's an authentic story told in the right way and then thirdly it's the moment that you're telling it to you know there are a lot of films that we got there we can talk about that told right now and particularly powerful because time they're being told not just the subject matter that they're telling that one in the British documentary making industry, let's discover the shows that have been celebrated.

cheers BAFTA TV awards here of a nominees were discussing today series narcos blast films for sky documentaries evacuation the hood Studios for Channel 4 Lockerbie mindhouse Productions for sky documentaries and once upon a time in Northern Ireland Keo films walk on air films at The Open University for BBC2 specialist factual gym Empire Keo films underdog films for Netflix the Enfield poltergeist velvet Concordia studio for Apple TV Plus forced out dragonfly for sky documentaries and white nanny black child heart Lily Productions ba54 Channel 5 single David Holmes The Boy Who Lived lightbox HBO for Sky

Entries Ellie Simmonds finding my secret family wicked Productions for ITV 1 Hatton Noah Media Group the sky documentaries and the Spider-Man of Paris Amos pictures for Netflix so 12 nominees there Let's Begin our journey with singular documentaries.

These are the shows that give you a window into another world in just one sitting the first 90 were looking at is David Holmes The Boy Who Lived from Sky entries, which follows the story of David Holmes stunt double to Daniel Radcliffe who was paralysed after a tragic accident on the set of the penultimate Harry Potter film tell me I'm sure this documentary will have particular resonance to those across the BAFTA membership in TV and film, how did you feel watching it? I mean there's a lot of conversation happening right now across the

About making sure that stunt people are properly celebrate because of what they do is astonishing and we seem that conversation happened in film Awards that had it's had its moment and now he's moving to the water as well as a standard television get higher and higher community are heavily involved in high-end drama and film and television and this is it is remarkable is a kind of really breathtaking watch because you're aware of the story but you're again it.

It feels like it's one that will get hidden.

It feels like you need it actually quite a good job of making sure it wasn't overly report it cos obviously Harry Potter is such a huge phenomenon in this country, but but worldwide as well and and we really tragic story feels like it was forgotten about him.

It's documentary came out and what's really complaining about this is Daniel Radcliffe is Harry Potter

Is one of the producers of this and it is very tempting that it becomes a film about him and about Harry Potter get it is absolutely not that is it is it's a film about the story and it's kind of like that friendship that happens when you're working on such a huge piece Mrs many many films long and it was a real tragic about that happened, but they couldn't stop they had to continue making me film even though the try and to have that time to go back to it and reflect on all the things that all kids when they were filming this and you really do forget this and you can kind of sense that that trauma is Lingard on but also that friendship is absolutely there is a really beautiful made a really compelling watch but it's the access that's really incredible.

I think having Daniel as an executive producer feels like it could have been the opposite direction is absolutely not that you feel that you're getting rude genuine insight into how this tragedy really affected the whole cast there.

I mean David Holmes himself.

What what an individual and what?

Outlook in and as a subject for a documentary this idea that you know I mean the fact that he he actually says on camera.

I didn't want to pursue any blame for this accident because what's the point getting someone else's life miserable.

I mean that really draws you into him and his positivity amazing scene where he is in the hospital room where he was first taken to after the accident and he always finds something to be to feel lucky about despite the horror that happened to him and he says I was in hospital and the other guys who were here.

Well one was paralysed terror attack the other I think it was a knife attack and he said look at all that hate.

I was doing something I love and it's real what I loved about the film.

Was it not just it show the ripple effects of this life-changing accident and what happens when there's a life-changing accident.

How many people are the effects but as you?

Was it was it was a study on friendship.

It was these tight group of friends but come together and how friendship survived something like there's no the moment.

We're done.

It was really honest and he said the first time he went to the hospital room to see David he was really worried that something would have changed and he was really worried that they wouldn't have anything to talk about anymore and I thought that was yeah really really honest right well.

We move over to Netflix now Netflix Gables valorum Thomas the Spider-Man Paris a cat burglar doll works by Matisse Picasso totalling over 95 million.

Lb it about a heist film very much like a heist movie in parts intercut with this interview with Thomas and they throw in his I only steal from the 1% lime which makes you go, I think he's alright.

And what did you make this my daughter picked up on that she's a bit like this because she was quite good news about how we that we do turned villains and heroes and it is a very much an anti-hero film do kind of in a guilty where can a route for him.

There isn't brilliant scenes in this where it does feel like a proper High School nearly has got that.

You know that drama Age 2 and it comes back to what we're saying about factual programming that these stories that you know feel like they are Stranger than Fiction and when you're watching his yes, there's lots of drama pieces in there and they're doing lots of reconstructions, but the stories real and you see the person that did this and there are some properly breathtaking moment here the audacity of this crime and the Order of what was happening here is huge that you are most kind of have to keep going back to the real people and hearing from them.

Could you just can't believe it actually happened and I think the accessories.

Really great the fact they got to tell the story in such detail and what's great about.

This is that it is a French film it's you know it's it's it's in the French language and it's in Paris are you really do feel like every interview with taken to that city.

You know it's about the French Modern Art Museum it's used to do all the time all the contributors of French and they speaking to you in French and so across and while I was watching absolutely kind of transported to to that place in that time.

It's really really enjoyable watch not least could it's so heart-stopping which which is brilliant thing to be able to to make happen when you're watching a documentary.

I've got a question.

I'm loving the sound of the Spiderman what did he do with the money he made tell me tell me he was Robin Hood I mean the thing is you.

Be there for about £50,000 because you just wanted 50 grand there and then as opposed to trying to sleep them yourself giving the money to look about how he is had a talk about the people at the top of the buildings has anybody ever been to Paris you know you've done very tall and and higher up you go the letter T they have and he work this out.

He was climbing building to get to the top floor and like you know the that you see shots of people climbing GoPro footage of my jumping from roof top 2 rooftop and there's all of that kind of breathtaking moments in there.

He is really incredible you know you've incredibly talented climber.

He is incredibly charismatic man.

Single but in jail if you are right if the Spider-Man of Paris is a very clickable title the star of our next nominee is just as clickable Ellie Simmonds finding my secret family for families that is a tablet to television staple and here is gold medal-winning paralympian Ellie Simmonds trying to find her birth mother at what if anything does this film do differently they made it a success individual and I think it's really great when you see stars that have made some other kind of sports people on this list that wouldn't be talking about as well when you see these walls and people that have reached the Pinnacle of of the aircraft in Innocence the swimming then go on to be able to tell.

Beyond that again it comes back to me earlier about access part of the penis and you mentioned earlier about Kye clickable titles part of the Challenge that you have a documentaries is bringing an audience to them have somebody that is already known by the audience it helps unlock the stories in a different way and this is something that we know that a lot of people kind of share this level of challenge the family and and having Ellie tell that story opens up to much wider audience and anything that's what makes it important hear that that it's her voice her experience and you go with because she has been such an icon in the sports world, but hearing her background after we can champion here and cheer her too kind of winning gold medals and learning more about Harry's is why documentaries really really work because you know you are really drawn into these people because they are such brilliant individuals 15-minutes a doctor father said about.

Looking for a birth Mum you've got to be emotionally prepared for finding out stuff.

You might not want to find out and there's this look on my face in that moment you see she had an even sidered that is a possibility and you realising that moment you're watching a very genuine person who isn't performing for the camera like her.

It's your sentik human in This documentary which is kind of rail when you put a camera on someone isn't it? You know what I was completely taken by her and taken.

I love a family reunion show and I just sold all the way through this she was so open and so sweet and so trusting of the process and as a moment where she reads notes that she's giving from her adoption and in the notes her birth.

Mother is saying that I wish I had an abortion and then her birth mother says I wish.

Annalise's g like this in kind of Reunion programs also used to them to have these moments that stay with you.

I thought it was really beautiful.

You done and really respectfully then because after you hear that but you know some terrible things her birth mother said there is of course a reunion and it's not filmed and you don't feel cheated as a viewer you don't mind.

It's not filmed in fact you want to respect the moment.

I thought was beautifully I think that's a very important point actually because you know as we celebrate his films.

It's not just the final films that were celebrating as how they got married and that building of trust between contributor and director of production team is so with them in your know this it's like it's such an essential school and sometimes you'll go sometimes years too kind of build-up that.

Rapport build up that level of trust that we will tell your story with respect and authority you have to always balance.

What is going to be viewed by the audience at home and make sure it says compelling and it says as interesting as it can be but also be really respectful of the fact that these are human beings and they are real stories and you have to tell them in the right way, and this is a masterclass in that is because you know this is a very difficult to tell if you're watching this if the difficult experience ready and but it's told with that level of of respect and trust between the director and and and contribute her when you get that right, then you again really feel like your hearing the truth human story behind this building Trust I think the the Godfather of flying the wall documentaries Paul Watson of the family Fame I think he said.

The subjects on camera flying the wall docks of people improvising around the idea of being themselves which turns into the idea of you know people do often exaggerated versions of themselves cannot be unaware that a camera is on you do you think that is just car for the course now when you making a documentary or is it is it in weight? Are you striving for the real person or do you want? I think we're now and a generation where everybody is going on the cameras around them.

So where is many years ago the idea of having a camera in your face and far more intimidating thing.

You know now everyone's got a camera in their pocket and you know we've got a generation is growing up with filming themselves and each other so is there is a discarding an impact that happened as a result of that, but I do think it's not just about the camera and the contributory is about the relationship between the production team and

Storytelling I think a lot of people think that you just turn on the film filming interview and then you're done that the amount of work that goes into making sure that you're getting a level of on the speaker thing audience is known as well.

What is know when they're watching a reality TV show an interview in that space and an interview in the documentary and they can kind of Tower with somebody is being authentic and genuine and when somebody is doing it because it's no it's a job or it's it's an experience and I think that like seasoned and we can tell the judging panel on on the wall shows like this.

They really can see whether where things are real and and it's called documentaries that you're creating documents of time and so they have to be as real to life as possible because if they're not that they aren't they can't be trusted once you lose the trust of Evie or contributor all the audience things do start falling down and I think again you know this document accula really demonstrates the 11 in which you can see.

When we reach the final no need for the category of Single documentary return to Sky and Hatton which uses previously unseen archive footage to story of boxing champion Ricky Hatton that phrase previously unseen archive footage it does a lot of heavy lifting in generating interest does how hard is it though to actually sauce previously unseen footage head and how useful is that phrase to seller documentary now? It is it is changing but I think that when you've got stars that clearly on the rise you there are I don't know if that's the case here but for many people there is a lot of archival work that goes on we know that these are going to be Legends we want to make sure that for posterity that work with keeping all of their work and there is so much stuff.

That is shot now, but every once in awhile.

You get yourself into a room that you.

Thank you ever get access to the family home be at the kind of the changing room before you can a head out into the ring that there's a lot of times when those were the real emotions in the real stories are and when your sports person in particular.

You are a brand and everything is control for a particular filter and when you get the opportunity to make these documentaries you get to see the kind of more or a genus alongside.

You wouldn't necessarily see when that boxing match all that motorway saw that football match happens.

You can see more of motorsport documentaries occur, but it's always comes after the fact when they've been and unity to see how that game or that that distance boxing matches has taken place and those careers have happened because your expectations of you know a lot of sports that you have to come to build a brand around them, but when you get an opportunity to undertake a bit of time away from there and actually see the real human being behind that brown.

It is addictive you and it's incredible.

And this is again a real masterclass in in saying that because he is an incredible individual incredible character, but you do really feel like you're connecting with him in a way that you didn't when you watch them fight I mean because it's Ricky Hatton H and H the footage exist of him as a child through to when he became world champion.

I mean hundreds of hours.

That's a lot to go through.

I'm going to give you a bit of a curveball here whoever wants to pick up the hot potato of a I can but is this something a I might actually be able to help with in the fuse for the Terminator 2 generation where AI is terrified, but the idea of just going through that amount of footage and having something that is able to select is relevant.

What is interesting footage.

I am good day.

I could this be a useful tool in the future.

And actually authenticating footage.

You know especially in conflict zones where you're not sure of locations of who's involved actually to have an my system that could authenticate and pick out video evidence for you bring it on what you're talking about is the daunting reality of going through that amount of and being able to get the best stuff to tell the right story and I think that's been happening for a while.

I don't necessarily think that bad.

It's just that really good cataloguing and I can tell you for when you work with an archive producer that knows how to get through content in any way shape or form.

They are Superhumans they really really I like I live in all of the organisation of really great because they know where to find staff.

They know who to speak to and they know what will work on screen and it's just such a real gift and I think that we are really blessed to kind of have brilliant Ark

In this country who can make the film because it actually is the the kind of stuff that makes these fields as well as one of the interviews with with all the contributors is when you get to see dead people kid so kind of you know in the lead-up to the fly that those and stay with you and then it is your car Producers at making that happen.

It's a very early age of me when I was in the future.

I have no idea which was on Apple TV Plus no surprises for getting this was released in the run-up to Halloween but it is a docudrama which is quite.

Difficult medium to get right in the docudrama isn't it one of my feelings is that you no there isn't one way to tell a story and and I think that if there's if this is the best format to tell that we get a bit of reconstruction in there again.

It's all about compelling the viewer to watch it through to the end.

Get the full gamut of the story in in the most compelling way.

I think what it comes down to it if the docudrama is but you need to make sure you got that balance between truth and fact reality alongside entertainment and Drama you it can be quite easy to fall in either way.

It's a bit too factual with the level of intrigue and engagement to keep the audience to the end.

Lol so you don't let you find the other end where you have too much of their kind of reconstruction or drama.

She say then makes a story feel like it's less real getting that balance right is a real real art and I think it's one of those things that start with a deft hand something different in sandwiches.

Audio recordings from the periods of 1440 years old the 17th these events happened and it has actors lip sync to these original audio recorder and it's usually found in this way.

It's very impressive and it's alright.

Yeah.

It's got best sound at the BAFTA TV craft Awards next top fives white nanny black child a personal moving and sometimes unsettling meditation on identity belonging and the nature of family this was a part of British history.

I had almost no knowledge of the Telegraph called it a striking left turn 4 Channel 5.

What did you make it for disclosure? I know Andy mundy Castle his friend of mine, then.

He told this film on the train once and community.

Hearing community in the 1970s and and a lot of those were brought up by white nanny.

So there was lots of black children that have white nannies and that's how the water which is a note for them.

It was it was not credible sense of what diversity looks like in the UK has effectively these people have been brought up with two different cultures and it wasn't something and that was happening while they were children.

It was only until later in the life that they realise that kind of conflict and the and the struggles that created and you having a lot for the from a lot of contributors from both sides that the retail experience in both positive and negative outcomes of it and when you hear that you're a bit like these stories have to be told and if the great we going to do it and I think you know absolutely fair play.

This is a space of a usually play in and they met of Andy and met with the team making this then they heard stories they saw the actress that you had and but for many people this Xperia

Turn off very familiar with and he was bringing it to a Brand New Orleans and it is it's a brilliant brilliant filament and I'm really pleased for him that this has been nominated as in the shortlist because I think it's an important story and it says a lot about our culture events and how long have people been brought up in Britain did very well at the Sheffield doc fest last year.

It's obviously nominated for a BAFTA festival circuits and an awards nominations in terms of raising awareness about a film that everything because you make a documentary and it's off in about another story on obscure part of the world and what often given a graveyard slot because it's thought the people aren't interested in foreign affairs so you you get the feeling that you're having very little impact you have to go and create that impact yourself which is writing articles doing press interviews so award ceremonies and festivals are everything it's a chance to bring.

Big audience and that's really help me in the past with my films where you see viewing figures and your bitterly disappointed and then slowly the film starts to gain traction with screenings and weird festivals in with Awards ceremonies after the actual broadcast documentaries and now for forced out this tells the story of service people discharged from the UK armed forces simply for being lgbtq plus who created 34 to overturn the Gabe and despite the fact that homosexuality was homosexuality was decriminalised in 1967 and remained illegal as in you could literally go to jail for being gay in the British military Hill the year 2000 in formation, but what does This documentary add to the storage?

Reporting documentaries are like you know I think that we've been on a journey about the representation of the quick immunity in this country and it is genuinely shocking to see that day that it was January 2010.

It was a criminal offence to be Service person working in the military and and and be part of a quick community that is properly shopping.

This is really Bray story telling me to hear of you know told a deeply personal stories about that again.

It goes back to the issue of trust that you know they were marginalised that extend when they're trying to fight for their own country and and I think it's it's one of those things will be holding a mirror up to our Society and see how we you know it's been clear injustice.

So people that will literally willing to put the lines on the line for A Country that wanted to put the sunshine.

News interview for really moving it was one particular man who broke down.

He was replaying an in an interrogation and it was so cruel and his interrogator wanted the mean him wanted him to spell out what he been doing a sexual act this grown man broke down crying remembering what he was how he was the main and yeah, I thought it was a brilliant an incredibly important bit of work.

It wasn't just a fellow.

They had to hide their sexuality was the fact that it was a branch of the military police dedicated to hunting them down and in late, and they had they were subjected to home searches to find any homosexual literature that matches with with rubber gloves as though this was some kind of forensic investigation and actually you know what the questioning reminded me of the question the questioning reminded me of the Iranian regime you know it really.

Very similar and I lived in around working as a journalist for for for many years and this is what a rainy Ian's had to and still have to put up with this is our recent history.

This is the government the British military what 24 years ago shocking finally in this category and you you can get more different here.

We come to a nature documentary chimp Empire on Netflix story of a vest community of chimpanzees driving in a forest in Uganda navigating complex social politics family Dynamics and dangerous territory dispute at there is no shortage of nature documentaries on TV what did you make of Jim paromita? But there is only one monkey succession I was hooked it's absolutely phenomenal and it's brutal as you reminded me of when Jane Goodall was asked what a favourite animal wasn't she said while everybody always issue.

The I say chips, but I never say chips because it's so like humans that they're all assholes which it turns out.

It's true.

I am not only is it part succession Park Brazilian soap opera is so beautifully I mean you feel that you're there in the jungle with them.

I mean it's a work of James Reid who won a BAFTA for my octopus teacher back into in 2021 and I don't know I don't want to say if the follow-up all the sequel but I think the he's cb9 for that film and it's which is an incredible film.

I was actually I don't know from This podcast I was at the RTS awards in the West of England recently that is being in the West Midlands the that we have in this country for natural history is without compare.

And this comes out of the West of England ASDA's planet Earth II units based on their you got some incredible companies doing some reading would be brilliant films and this is one of of them and and like you say the foot is just unbelievable and you mentioned earlier about AI you have to ask yourself.

I'm so many watching this is actually real or is it CGI and actually when you realise that they went there they kind of Pitch them know that but they can't really leave the monks do at the gym community and in in that area and and it's it's just incredible like they've got some facial work.

It's a particular passion point of mine.

Is is family viewing you know a lot of the film did quite difficult films to watch on due at you have to watch them in a particular setting this is a film that I watch on my whole family.

I think that's really really important that you know in a wild where there's lots of noisy programming out there.

There's a lot of things that are fine for your attention to have something that the whole family can sit around and experience together demonstrates our planet and our world.

I think it is really important and this is a masterclass and let's move on to a final category for today factual series these a multi episode commentry that might have exclusive access or perhaps tell a complex history Romita that we're going to start with the evaluation.

I wish I'm guessing you potentially had a very different experience watching having been on the ground in Afghanistan and dealing with the Taliban because this covers the perilous British campaign to evacuate Kabul in 2021 remake of had a filmmakers dealt with events here, so I can be critical of films in countries that I know well actually I thought this was excellent.

I thought it was.

Done so it's mostly interviews with people still serving in the military into contact with footage and the retelling of what happened is absolutely extraordinary first of all I was quite stunned by the level of transparency that the mod allowed because let's face it was an absolute shitshow, and it was a horror story that was unfair and what story to tell him to tell well was to build up the tension and to build up the horrific moments and events that led up to the final evacuation from Afghanistan what made it all the more powerful was at these are people who are used to being self-contained and they used to people who are really used to suppress feelings.

I mean they're serving military people yet.

You could tell that every single one of them was still traumatised and you're talking about some people who have seen.

The lives of several of them broke down explain explain what happened and you will realise that there was an absolute total lack of leadership.

Yeah, there was one RAF police who likened it to being a sixth form field trip in Kabul I mean it was yeah, it was George dropping it so I think just to touch on one of those punctuate what it was such a minute detail in the way this was shot but it was so key was the fact that these military personnel sat down and they were film sit down and you can see they're the military training so evident in the way they sat down almost all took a very similar positions seated they remove their berets in exactly the same way and it was all precision.

It was military training and then within sort of five minutes of beginning to talk about what they went through that all just broke away because it had affected them so much.

You know there was a critical reviews saying that they should have been more context and I should have been you're more history about the events leading up to the evacuation that was needed at all.

I thought taking this one moment this one event taking it apart told you everything you need to know about the withdrawal from Afghanistan but also losing a war about betrayal and also about being really difficult situation.

Yeah, it was really extraordinary to see the soldiers that they had to carry out duties they then they felt very guilty about and I was one woman who said I have to face myself and face the fact that I did stuff that I did not think I don't think is right that I should not have done you know you so we'll compassion and humanity but you also thought reality of what it was like for after.

From British military point of view which is very unusual we have her three nominees left Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland and this is by the same team won the award in 2020 for once upon a time in Iraq director James bluemel has also been nominated this year for the BAFTA craft awards for director that has got some real pedigree doesn't mean it's literally the standards that like a lot of factual films about your theory so I know how to because it is just a w w w this is it's between incredible Ark ID and brilliant access to all of these contributors, but the way that it's told like that level of humanity and an almost casualties in the play having this conversation.

Is you and feels like you're talking to real human beings it doesn't have this level of like you know if there's a lot of times documentary get criticised for using particular.

The music or kind of holding onto of a shop for a little bit longer than needs be to claim almost provoke an emotion out of you that happens in this.

There's a shot in the archive where they have this old is running through the streets of Dublin children playing around those kids playing during and a kind of conflict moment and it shouldn't have they shouldn't exist and there's no mention a bit of a reference to it.

They show you the shop and get you to make up your own mind and I think that is a real ass.

They managed to kind of crack with this and it's it's a brilliant watch Let's head over the other side of the border in Ireland Dublin narcos tells the story of had Dublin transform from a recession delighted city in the 80s one of the wealthiest cities in the 90s with a drug seem to boot someone who worked on this program.

I do one of my best mates Clare hire Clare

Dublin narcos for Claire congratulations, what did you make of Dublin in the lead-up to this is really compelling that like you know your way here in London in Piccadilly you know this is a bit of a drive, but it's still drivable distance to be story which is so unbelievable this happen in our lifetime.

That was seeing you know structure change happen in that region, but I think again it is brilliant.

We get to see the films because we really do get an understanding as to come and how our neighbours have had to deal with some pretty horrific start but actually how it's really changed the Communities and it's really shaped how how that country is turned itself around.

I think it's a brilliant film that had another number nomination.

It's not for with photography because it just looks incredible and and I think it's a beautiful.

What's interesting about this is it's it's so often when you're talking about the Ireland and Northern Ireland is told through the lens of The Troubles if that's the only story that they have I think it's really brilliant that we found a way to kind of took that community in and hear about the history through more than just three more than just one prism and lastly we come to Lockerbie which is made by Louis Theroux company mindhouse it aired on Sky tell me what you made.

I've lost the obviously huge event in recent memory it happened to the guy remember distinctly.

What's a story this was unfolding another example of a story we all know we think we know and we've been told yet done beautiful beautiful.

Can't crafted expertly told I thought it's worked on so many levels you know it's part 2 crime detective park journalist.

Part studying grief you know the first episode was incredibly moving.

Cos it grounded you right there with the people of Lockerbie and now the moments of real compassion and kindness of the people of rock Lockerbie rallying round.

Yeah, there's a group of women who washed the luggage and who wash teddy bears because they wanted far is love wants to have something you can see that the people in Lockerbie was still affected all these years later by what happened to them.

There was one man who broke down another couple who would guard over at the end of the garden and call him our boy that was really beautiful way of starting to tell the story and then The Intrigue the dissolution CIA do bitches about kind of the FBI incompetency of the FBI he said you know what you got to remember about the FBI's are just a load of cops and of course them study on grief you know you've

Loose wire whose daughter was killed he's got grief x on his face and it's consumed 30 years of his life.

You know he's obsessed with it, but it did so brilliantly so delicately was allow gym to question the official narrative and it also gave way to every single theory for which there was evidence so it didn't colour fuel conspiracy theories and that was very well done because it quite methodically went through all the evidence and just when you thought right there's no way he did it you were presented with evidence that completely convinced you that of course he did do it and ultimately there is no smoking gun and ultimately different versions of what may have happened which is a little bit like JFK you felt like you're on this journey, and there was no answer in the end, but it didn't matter.

Bring me into the drama of the bathroom walls itself.

So this film is actually 9843.

I think makes it one of the most nominated film certain in the factory category, so John is John Deere the best director at Freddy's filmed and edited Charlie's nominated for best editing as well as the film itself being nominated for best factual series up to fill it up for the travel and I think that's basically make Louis Theroux the Martins golf driving those of you that are watching the baftas in and when I kind of bit of a drama to see you.

This is going to unfold is Louis going to be taking the biggest call of that at home or is he going to go home and get me the story of the night he delivered the Edinburgh TV festival keynote the McTaggart last year which he gave this stirring call to arms for doc entry makers.

We need television is confrontational surprising and upsetting.

We should have spotted challenge viewers assumptions in resist orthodoxy wherever possible we serve.

Justice best when we aim to make television that reaches people and engages them take risks sail close to the wind with kind of ended then we started because the nominees today at the state of the industry.

How hopeful are you both in fact that this is happening is a bit of a weird as you look but bear with me on my feeling factual a specialist factual and he's a little bit like eating your greens right.

That's the best restaurants in the world and sometimes you go to the restaurant if you want to order the Steak or you want to order like the most incredible dessert but the best restaurants have the best at telling you this for free you go to a restaurant that has the best green then you know you're in the right place and this nomination with shows that we've got a list of Incredible films that are not only good for you when you watching them but actually they taste absolutely incredible and and I think this is a brilliant listened and it's really inspiring when it comes to the Future of factual programming in this country.

I still maintain the Brits the best app budget so I just got a commission.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It's a miracle these days.

So it's a great story investigation which was turned down by one broadcaster and nobody can quite believe it including the commissioner of arrival broadcaster who said to us a minute was this really turn down the commission extremely excited and then we find out the budget.

Why not sure if it's doable films on this list.

I will turn down by broadcaster.

So this isn't that's not normal and non-normal experienced an unusual experience it does happen, and I think there's nothing more satisfying than when you have a film of turn down with somebody else.

It's up on this lady.

Give you a little bit of waiting for that point the Dead there are a few things in a factual basis is in is in a bit of a tricky time when it comes to both the UK and sweet and and across the world when it comes to budget when it comes to commissions there lots of broadcasters around increasing pressure 220 me deliver hits and somebody things do get that viewing figures because they hurt they are hard to watch it to go back to my eat your greens analogy.

They're important, but they're not always at the top of the menu, but the reality is that we need more people making these films heamoor companies making the film and we need to have more of a wide gamut of storytellers and and and stories that forget mate because I think it is really important and it has such a ripple impact on to our whole Society and you know that sounds kind of quite lofty but the reality is that we are seeing law change we are seeing.

Forget representing in ways that would never be represented before we're seeing human beings being having relationships with other human beings through your television screen and I really do believe that's incredibly important and I hope that you know this listing and others help more people get their films made.

We are almost done for this episode before I let you leave battery.

I'm asking you and Andy debris.

Guess my regular quick fire questions for what was your most memorable moments from the past year of TV in General Levy incredible.

Yeah, it's a good Lee opposite about right now, but I think that blue is in a little purple blue and purple patch at the moment but but they are you know winning at life right now and if you want a palate cleanser should also say it's all my life watching cartoons that helps me but like the new X-Men this out as well.

This is remarkable and love it.

Love it Romita

I'd say to and of course I come from my world the Russell Brand Channel 4 investigation which I thought was a brilliant piece of journalism and also an ITV documentary inside Iran made by a friend and colleague and that was a real feet because I know exactly how dangerous and difficult it is to make a documentary like that and that really I kudos to her gas in their final question.

What are you watching a loving on TV right now for so I watch Mr Mrs Smith on Amazon and actually got me back to watching Atlanta with Donald Glover which is just such a brilliant series.

It's a real treat of you.

Can I also think that in particular? I'm sure you've talked about that crosses podcast the entertainment is having just the most amazing moment right now.

You know what she the traitors gladiators masked singer.

Play me show it and I think it's a real joy that was singer requesting a real Resurgence of of Saturday night entertainment possible as you can tell I love Claudia Winkleman lovely stuff.

Thank you both the metre for us wonderful to have had your input on this episode if you haven't watched the excellent programs discussed today most are still available on Demand so please do go and check them out hip follow right now to get the inside take on the TV at nominees up for contention this year will be dropping new episodes of The Show twice a week leading up to the BAFTA TV awards with P&O Cruises on the 12th of May on BBC1 and BBC iPlayer this year by Rob Beckett and romesh ranganathan.

You will not want to miss it.

Thanks to the producer of this series Matt Hill everything audio Alex saying this was a bath after production.

I'll see you again.

the 2024 BAFTA TV awards continues