Read this: A Factual Funding Crisis Joe Lycett Churnalism

A retrospective what historical events are we taking off on this week's run of the day in history inadvertently invented the motorbike on Thursday explain however she got demonise in the 1960s and Friday we revisit a legendary battle on a frozen Russian lake we discuss this and more on today in here with the retrospective 10-minutes.

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Yeah, you games did you know play free spins to collect the customers only two piece of ply 18mm Galloway talk? I want to be podcast I'm on the show this week a commissioning slow down update that we take a look at how factual is being affected by the average session is on the programme put your mouth where the money is that's what MP's told the BBC as they bringing over there regional plans by Joe Lycett is making journalists lives harder.

We welcome mpr3 election cycle.

That's all coming up in this edition of the media podcast in the news this week's you Grant a 70s lawsuit against the sun after the newspaper what he called an enormous sum of money.

He posted online.

I would love to see all the allegations that they deny tested in court, but the rules around civil litigation mean if I proceed to trial and the court damages that are even a penny less than a settlement offer I would have to pay the legal costs of Both Sides there's been surprised the world of football journalism as new spread last week, but the star writer Henry winter has been axed on the same day that the mailzone sports desk said it should expect redundancy soon and the actor Olivia williams' spoken about her parents working on friends in the late 90s calling it alarming and harrowing she told the Independent friends as a brand and you had to fit the brands and that involved essentially fucking off.

Play browse I said, please don't take my eyebrows off.

I might need another job.

That's the sense in which it was Harry well here with me in the London podcast studio is eyebrows intact and we welcome back the MT of gold at the TV industry second favourite Osman it's Farage you more successful than me fine, although I have got a duck.

What's the air fry do I say bubbling in my hair was the thing about Aphrodite there Friday and it writes it and they continue to re and not just on telly but people still buying them like talking out this cookbooks around their fries.

You know and

Ben Brown switch off I do incredibly well, it's like to go to the Isle of an air fryer next 24-hours work about the MD of talented people holding company for TV craft people.

It's hello mate.

How you doing? I'm very good.

Are you have a talk this evening? It's called where have all the pm's gone shortly answer it's even use this is just woken up.

That's just come out very slow so although the title might be a bit misleading so everyone's going p.m.

They're all still here because there's no work at the mode of production and its production managers, so you probably remember we all had a massive problem booking any level of Managers couldn't find them for love nor money and the good people of Bournemouth University of produce report to put into tangible statistics what we all sent and fell about.

My product managers were difficult to recruit hard to retain and yes the event this evening is the launch of this report which I hope everybody reads disgusting things like the visibility of the roles and why the image of a product manager is not quite as sexy as editorial the divide between production editorial and the things that we can all be doing what should all be into and help keep brilliant people in the business documentary features are under threat according to a panel of top producers.

You came together this week including those behind three identical strangers as well as the new documentary supermatt few docs make money back.

Why is that was a lot and get made and and there is space for people that do it.

A lot of get married in when they get made they're all trying to come by for attention feel vessels apart of that obviously they are looking for funding distribution etc as well or small single person operation that often in radio as well.

Stop gets me then you will ever see and this is the result of it, but I catch you know it is it is a bit of a numbers game but there but also its it is an industry game as well like if you go off and make you a documentary and you didn't get funding in the first place of distribution the first thing you to call a risk you then kind of all my side pushing that risk back a back a back to a point where you're a bit like right now.

It made my film now can somebody else can pay for it.

So yeah, it is it is a numbers game massively surprising terrified massive you surprised me as well.

Is that changed?

Play in that you always need to find funding from so many different partners now with the days of kind of going to challenge this idea.

Yes, I do here's your 100% budget to get permission go make a film and you can eat today.

What are you doing for a channel? What percentage have you done your premium.dog it completely depends on if the dog is about the UK like there's there's a film that came out recently.

That's incredible.

I don't want to watch it.

It's three-part documentary about the surround and south Asian people when they come to this country and and it's an amazing documentary.

It was part from the motion content group and they would have co-produce partners with Productions and left-handed taking a while to get across the line British story doesn't have distribution outside of UK probably not so why emotion interested in that so I can't say I don't work for my son.

I can't you know I don't know the ins and outs of it, but it is.

Premium documentary it makes sense that we have a deal with Channel 4 called which we have called Cindy fund where they are looking to you know allow for more diverse producers to make content is always have to be about diverse happens to be that there are really wonky reasons.

Why they do it because it's to do with the ad spend in the sales of the of the adverts in between the programs.

They do deals with for that allocated etc.

Which is why motion involved in it cause all sorts of issues and some people don't like me don't completely understand it but documentary three-part documentary about that.

I would argue even 10 years ago that would be fully funded by Channel now it requires lots of different want to get involved for it can get to screen and you'll see more and more documentary don't need to lean into that what I think if I came or a film producer role.

Lots of different types of money before they can actually get enough money to budget whole thing that requires people to go off and find all these different sources in demand for senior people wear often now saying that you know must have done deals and negotiate partnerships from New sources and you know it's not a surprise that things are going in that direction as a really interesting forever you say that it's like a film colour produces head because I thought about it like that before but you have to be able to have you have to have a can of a portfolio Masterplan not only in terms of the range of things that you are now having to make as a contact maker but how you're going to get funding to make it.

I think you know it's going back to that.

How can this so few people who can afford to make their own.

Finance thing anyway, I mean that it's such a amazing there were 5000 people who you know submit a film to Sundance and you know there's only five of them actually got any decent return from anyway, but it feels like there's not that many people in the world of TV broadcast that can afford to do that anyway multiple partners your compromising because people have reviews and you'll have to come to take on board you could also argue that it's because you're thinking about a broader audience and therefore your opportunity to get access to to open up the story could mean that comes a better film as a result I would argue that you look at them the incredible natural history documentaries that we have that do require funny from not two different partners now.

There are very few places.

You can get some single thunder that they are amazing because they reflect the whole of the planet, so that's that's a good thing, but there are quintessentially British stories that I think I still important to us and then.

That I think of becoming harder to make because of the current market and I do anything as problematic but we have seen this you know in film and animation you are seeing multiple partners that the weather too funny things in and actually increasingly the pressure is on the production companies to to find that money before they will get a green light from a UK broadcaster sir and but be for like 27 the money and they will you take that green light to then go and broken money from lots of other place as well.

It's kind of commitment to pay the 20% Does that run for a set a timer got 6 months to get the rest of the cash together.

Let me know every day is different and it has I will say that we had an Indian and then we've vast majority after we've done has been fully Commission from atolls but as a market we are looking for funding outside of the UK

And then started to understand how that works and it's because it's not like we have a commissioning set up in this country and like as a producer.

There's only ever make stuff in this country you can you do what you do there, but over in in the Middle East or over in the Americas are over in Africa but actually every single space a completely different way of working some broadcasters completely play Summertime by commercial summarised by Brand it's just you just gotta keep shopping around in a different way and put on some news about high-end documentaries able to claim tax relief for 34% That's not bad.

Is it that sounds like we've all got to find ways to save money right now, so that feels like an incentive and two point about having more partners on board as an advantage.

I agree with that.

It's complex and it's time consuming to get a really bored and you need to have a really good system of communication and and

Watching agreement on the shape.

It's going to take in the direction it needs to be and how it's gonna look and feel but actually bringing on specialists from different areas with different opinions can be a really good thing.

I'm a massive fan of chips Okehampton BBC giving criticise this week by production across the UK in a project the broadcaster calls across the UK Kimberly what did MPs of the public accounts committee say well, they were not happy about it, because they felt that you that the money that was being treated to outside of London did not have a purpose.

It's all as long as it says on the back for having a save some money and then be gone and we going to spend outside London with everybody want a job is done and everyone else is going well.

Are you going to do with that money? I mean it's a bit like.

Money out of my joint bank account with my husband and going I will have trim cost everywhere else.

I'm just going to take this money and run off somewhere with it and I'm not going to say what I do with it probably create a real fast because as MP constituency surgeries and and local radio want anything to hear that stops the baby.

It's for a lot of Incredible created that go on and have they are great places to have a little cottage industries off of me which are your settings a really important as well when you ring people in.

Cardiff Manchester Glasgow Birmingham and creating scale rather than little bits everywhere the work that has created you know if they have purpose to create.

I think sometimes we could get the value of that because on a spreadsheet you can't really quantify it and you know that I do not work until the same thing is true television left right and centre for kids TV because it's hard to quantify how you go from being a writer on a kids dramas all the way up to writing succession exactly if what happened presenter that many many presenters and Talent in entertainment producers and and and filmmakers and screenwriters.

They will be starting children's television, but there's not a kind of the next one-to-one relationship between the money that spent there and how it ends up in the pockets of the whole of the UK creative economy and the same as local radio, so I think there's a bit of a struggle at the moment to find for instance.

Richard wear a lot of the earlier work is right now outside of London because if I going to lose radio then where's market for for them to find find a trading and the all of the regular audio work is in London you going to create a bit of an issue with the market and the supply of the interview doing quite well on their plan the plan is to shift 60% reduction outside of London by 2027 58% now.

I'm pretty much cheaper than the money was going to online rather than radio and I suppose the generation.

I don't know maybe that's not fair you shouting in the comments below.

Give it to a different city and that will have a overnight impact of the result of that can't really do the same as local radio you need to have that regular work and audio.

Just doesn't work in the same way as we don't have like audio formats audio shows in kind of created in in the same way and so as a result it's harder to come and move those jobs in certain places and I think the problem that sometimes the BBC fall victim to is they want to use the same model for everything but then making so many different types of thing that it's not it's not simple by going well.

You've done it in TVs work moving weakest link to sort of moving 5200 people's jobs and roles and training and you got a lot of work to build the infrastructure to do that if you pick up even leave it to Cardiff there's probably five or six people that are hard of the same with building a new industry in Cardiff

What's the travel from London to the radio as a whole set all you are doing all the car staying or you're getting involved and you know it.

There's a difference in and both where the Conservatives travel to and when they get their what's the most convenient thing for them and and also glad you say the level of infrastructure that different different formats required on Twitter through our websites are right BBC performance considering applying performance related pay to its top earners both on and off the other companies do this BBC

Private company you have to perform well you have KPI's you.

Have you know you know performance related meetings and you know you get compensated for her.

Well.

You do the public service need to do the right thing by everyone and so why not only reward the people who are meeting their performance targets for us to go up the problem around.

This is what is performance when it comes to the BBC is it better application? Is it is a higher audience stickers appreciation scores what high performance in the BBC but any public body actually means and had a concern with this is that you push it further and further into kind of water privatisation model which is like 10K.

Base around the same as a metric for ITV have for instance which is around ratings and how much exactly how much do you return to the shareholders maybe I should have that does make sense there a commercial organisation and I need to do the people working there any demonstrated return commercial value the PC using a commercial organisation so you say that you're going to give people bonuses based on their public service performance, but I think it's I think it's complication if I was working BBC I'd like to know what this means working in the religion department.

Are you saying I need to represent religion to get a audience or I need to have the Church of England write letter saying that they very happy with what we've done.

It is difficult to know but if it's performance is that what it's about individual individual performance then, that's I think you don't need to represent.

How well or the BBC has turned all your program has performed.

It's actually how well have you?

Your job is your pay then deserving of an increase.

That's how I should have a PDF do that comes out every year that ever worries about it would be interested in having to describe that in a bit more detail why somebody has gone up on the list if you exceeded something and it was personal to you in your job that you needed to deliver then you should be rewarded for that and I'd be called that performance means at the list of all the time people that work at the BBC get paid less than the rest of the industry and it's like I know that we will like it's BBC it's the standard work that produces the BBC produce for less money is exceptional and yes, maybe they should get paid more but what we gonna do.

Zero sum game at the BBC to have a set amount of money at the licence fee and we got to be careful about kind of saying they need to pay more that performed well or is this myself giving lots bpool a pain which we need to be careful about the past unions like that too.

So we will see how they get on ok with me talking Joe Lycett after this the BAFTA TV awards with P&O Cruises are coming this week on Countdown to the things as we look at the biggest events and sporting fixtures of the last find out how ending a live sports broadcast is even more important than the result the actress turned TV host who has had an incredible 12-months and King to boost your shows ratings by the answer is always naked people that's countdown to the baftas Finders whatever you get your podcast on TuneIn on the 12th of May

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Maximilian Faraz are here for some more news in brief comedian.

Joe Lycett Returns Channel 4 on Friday launching new series was late night show with a publicity stunt involving make stories in the Press Kimberley can you name any of those stories? I wish it had been the one that I saw people talk you out online which is swimming in Cheshire who rescued what she thought was a small baby hedgehog and brought into her local RSPCA and in fact turned out to be a bobble hat really wish it been that wasn't won the footballer with a with a bruise in the shape of Harry Prince Harry enjoyed is all the ones.

We thought it was a lot of chat that and I've really wish this was true because it would have been an incredible Media story which was

The we want to experience about it, it's exceptional social campaign put out research showing that men from Birmingham are the best Endowed in the UK and a new Banksy mural of Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz again in Birmingham cancel that the job of establishing the show that wasn't true.

I think the point that make is that is really easy to get me stories out there there for the problem with it is at the ends are going well you shouldn't.

Can you show me any news about news until Joe Lycett said? It's not as a bit of kind of comedy.

I'm not sure how much public good that was funny.

They get it on very very funny, but the long-term impact of that is going well.

Ok that Willy Wonka story short probably somebody's probably behind it and we all know that PR companies do a very good job in placing stories that may not necessarily be completely factually accurate or have all having historical background that they say it does sometimes writing up a fun story and I've done enough over the years for going to radio related vacant by the filter paper something for the end of the broadcast this is the loudest fart but as we kind of unit with helping the fun police as we race towards the Year of the most elections across the across our planet.

You know this is an issue.

How that's going to have impact off all the things our conversations are live right now.

I guess from Joe's point if you he's a bit like well.

This is my way of bringing attention to that issue from my point of view on a bit like have you not just kind of put what's the phrase? We put something in the soup you like muddy the waters a bit more as I'm looking for you know and that's not going to my concerned about this is a bit like you what's going to be the long-term impact of this every time and you soon as it comes out of people going to start going well any story is fantastical isn't real positioning that is for him.

This is the first time is remembered by all sorts TV shows it's a bit like let's see if we can get on this morning so far, but I need to be somebody is not the first time.

This is going on the key issue with this is a he's based around news and he's trying to hoodwink the news media and we need to have a proper debate around are there enough checks and balances in place before their stories get out there and

And I will argue in many instances.

That's because you've run to chronically underfunded from Chris Sawyer he was Radio 1 produce.

This is Greg James producer who loves doing a stunt that's basically it was his main job on the Radio 1 Breakfast Show and I'm sure he had quite a hand in this one.

It just seems like you've got a fingerprint you can switch channels, which formats which media and bring different skills to different people yeah.

I mean I just what what worries me starting about.

This is that there is a basic level of Frost is there between reporter and sauce and you know that the so much information from all different places.

It is it's a good thing isn't it to flag good journalism and rigorous.

Checking but on the other like we are all demanding an excessive amount of content of loving it at the same time.

So how do how do we consolidate that I don't know music from steps to be true? I really do what Strood made the Statue Michael Jackson put outside Fulham Football Club statue of next week ago actually went real stories and and and and I'm I'm struggling to see I actually a pointing out there is certain method to media which everybody just defaults to him whether you're a journalist who is used to receiving press releases and you ride it up and you know it gets clicks and

Play Somebody to Love sticking a fork in that machine to be honest.

It's a good thing if he was a bit like look at the story.

We would have told him it's fake then.

I'm like all this is a funny idea and the media that it is actually be placed the store is new place enough evidence out there that like you could corroborate stories and therefore this sound going to get it on the website text on the BBC News website because like I said they are going through usual checks and balances and you've got people that are surreptitiously trying to circumvent that then then I think you're the bad person that's all because you're trying to make people you translate German

Myself you should check because they didn't check it went ahead and print today, but I think that way of holding up a mirror to how we got any police been 16 years since Nick Davies published flat Earth news, which highlighted have Reliant journalists, should we came on PS so he should have coined the term journalism review taking these are material instead of making stories comes back to jobs and funding is the Mersey appear actually, what maybe joe licence proved to absolutely rigorously checked absolutely everything there.

Just isn't and PR should also want to be doing good jobs.

Of course.

They want their stuff in the why depressed but they also need to have a level of professionalism and fact-checking and all.

It's a basic level of trust.

I think in a new era of journalism, aren't we were there are probably only a certain level of trusted sources and the rest we are probably a little about what I think it's because they Dr the photo and and so when news agencies in wires do realise that something's not quite right though.

They come down it very very have you had it because you up you know the contractor of trust between between the news wires and and the generous and then an audience an employee for its own Handling of the situation.

Not it out the BBC this one's NPR at in America Kimberley on Thursday after being suspended by NPR for comment.

What's he said that the he felt that the networking lost America's Trust G2 out of a perceived progressive bias and he was arguing for a more balanced approach, but I don't know I mean I didn't know a lot about mpr in all honesty, but it seems that it's a Public Service Broadcasting in America and it is widely regarded for its impartiality and trusted news sources, do not trust a lot of see just now so I get it appears that he sort of Freddy's toys out of the pram and gone to talk publicly about his feelings and so broken all the all the rules about that when it comes to sort code and his contract for maybe then MP are on the same thing that what you talking so we're talking and now it's all got very messy.

I mean they say that you know that they're emphasising the importance of.

Discussion within the organization, but I don't really know how this is playing out for a while the younger employees who may be on the more progressive cited for have such a fan of him either.

Yeah, I mean I would say that I don't use this kind of curiosity about how we think that younger people working in the media always like left in progressive and I actually think that there are certain things that come out recently that's what's that may not always be the case is a real curiosity with in America typvs.

You know it is then it's much much smaller than the BBC snow operation which side of mpr.

And then there's a local affiliates they normally local operations that takes on their programming and and no surprise they continued to punch above their weight when it comes to Sesame Stree or this American Life and I think it.

You should be funded by the US Constitution in this country, but there is people that have issues with the fact that we have that there is a public broadcaster in America don't think it should exist surprise surprise.

I don't know you probably Guess Who the people are they have an issue with the public service broadcaster in in America but it but I think there are a lot of people my understanding.

Is it it has a very very high Trust level with in America both PBS and and and and people are very very don't like that.

You'll go round the tote bags are very very loyal to her and the much like people are very loyal to Radio 4 in this country so anybody kind of rocks The Boat either editorially or kind of criticise it in anyway.

Is is a little bit like it's open the royal family yes there may be some problems but you have to be very brave to say anything about it.

Ok, just off time for the media quiz and this week.

It's the return of static of course you remember 4 episode 212 women to this before I will give you a it may well.

Just be a number and you need to tell me what media story it relates to from the week at buzzing with your name's if you know the answer as they can't believe you will say you will say let's play another one that is 11% That's 11%

Oh Polly Kimberly I forgot my name for a second is this to do with the gender pay gap UK organisations that 34 waist too big enough to be counted in government reporting can we did you see the chance to see you on there? No, I didn't see the chart.

I just when I read that.

It was only 34 organisations big enough to have to provide there.

That is small and really rubbish with her the pay divide with your clients.

I mean people are pretty kg about disclosure of the very top level people salaries.

We definitely seeing more women in leadership roles for sure but in terms of the pay parity in those.

Level C suite roles difficult to say I mean you know what it is quite shocking and I think my favourite thing is international women's day where they say that they would everytime anybody from any organisation would say that about international women's day this but would great that data and say what their gender pay gap is so much fun and and I think that transparency is a good thing you know what I think that point that have to report this and when you report it.

You kind of you have to use in Haymarket to have one of the lowest apps right number to next is simply 1% I'll let you have that one friend my CV

New entertainment For That original Game Show in a decade according to broadcast have you seen it? Yeah? That's great.

It is not well.

I see what it is is it's really good family viewing which is the Holy Grail right now finding like good shows the whole family can sit around and watch.

I think is the new thing everyone radiators.

Obviously that's that's the thing that everyone's talking just because you and I've got kids the age where it's it is reality you know a lot of things that Saturday night too kind of get it to work in a lesbian dramas.

There's been there's been all sorts that actually it's it's the shows that whole family can sit around and watch around and we are just getting into it, but yes gladiators is a big thing.

Yeah, yeah, what a love that kind of his recapturing that event style come on guys.

You call me you're doing a quick come on because otherwise they might be a spoiler so will tell you who got through to the semifinals.

You really really enjoying that I did enjoy this week like about a 2-year old doing all of the Houses from Gladiators Chris number 3 the number sequence 240 to 7.

What does it mean?

I'm going somewhere.

I can I might be about ratings of some sort but it's not 24270 stop 4702 so Radio 2 covering the top 40 from 2 charts across seven decades read the article I was like I'm sorry what I had read that sentence 3 times each happened and I think this is the Greatest Hits radio recently sort of the BBC is Hove and charts are very much his thing.

It's a good it's a good looking really is it is he's nostalgia value.

He's quality.

I think he does well with kids as well, but we all remember him from Radio 1 Radio 1.

Yeah, all sorts no.

I think it's a respectful and you know really exciting higher draw what a piece which means together and get some news stories positioned in other news titles all about the media podcast Jasmine and Kimberly godbolt.

Where can people keep up with all of your activities Kimberly people and the people that TV and broadcasting Potter club is still alive and sing if you're gonna take her out.

I get it will be listening to this for us gold and squalor is what we doing so well.

That's everywhere that you'll find us.

The last time I saw Kimberly within a karaoke roofing in London about it is so good at that.

She managed to hoodwink mean.

I mean I'm a sober and I think karaoke is the worst invention of all yet somehow because clearly brilliant what she does I ended up in a karaoke booth and now it's disgusting kind of starting up a business of doing TV theme tunes karaoke Kimberly what did first thing can you remember they would have paid to be to watch flower on the wall for that character because we had to the TV mindset and a couple of days unless you pay the patreon for that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Remember 25% off your first booking at the London podcast Studios the record are show each week to do is use the code mediapad.

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You know AI is a game-changer for your business, so have you got a head of the game invest in R&D and Innovation what do you talk to Taylor Taylor wessing or a global law firm with a proven track record of working with tech leaders and disruptive advising on all aspects of AI integration from strategic acquisition to use cases protection and AI law invest innovate integrate with Taylor wessing visit now.

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