Read this: Reverberations of the Israel-Gaza War

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We're asking what difference would it make if international journalists were allowed into Gaza we have Sky special news correspondent Alex Crawford One of

And reporting names to find a letter today Israel and Egypt to allow them in we're also looking at how that war is playing out here in the UK with islamophobia anti-semitism threats against MPs all in the news, what role has the media itself played in Stoke intentions with me to discuss data Caroline Wheeler political editor of the Sunday Times Ayesha hazarika presenter on times radio to Montgomery columnist and founder of Conservative home and Dr Hannah White director at the Institute for Government welcome to your life.

Thank you so much for coming on the media show start with the letter signed by more than 50% as and reporters including the likes of CNN christiane amanpour the BBC is Jeremy Bowen and as I mentioned Alex Crawford who's joining us from hello Alex just tell us what the letter says and why you wanted to add your name the letter is very short it simply asks for unfettered.

This together it asks for specifically for Israel and Egypt to allowance in and to explain their reasons for why were not allowed in and it asked for best protection for the journalists already inside their why did we do it because we're not getting in and we've tried for nearly 5 months and it's becoming increasingly frustrating and it's allowed a vacuum of disinformation misinformation suspicion and doubt about absolutely everything also think I'm very importantly not in the letter, but it's definitely something that the bulk of people who signed the letter believe is that there is a far too high attrition rate of journalists being killed by the Israeli military inside Gaza and there is a mountain of evidence suggesting that they are being targeted and we need to get in there to prove.

What is going on and what would international journalist do we'll be able to do that local jealous can't do you think will for a start there is a mass of allegations against the Palestinian journalist that somehow they cannot be independent that somehow.

They're being coerced by hammers and somehow the other places like they're just not good enough all of which may or may not be true, but certainly it by not allowing others to get in there that suspicion.of personally.

I think they are incredibly brave fantastically diligent and covering a monumentally difficult war against huge of challenges such as losing their own homes being displaced themselves losing many of their relatives and they need support by the international journalists.

We'd certainly don't think they're inept or unable to do the job they very much are and thank goodness.

They are there because they are all windows right now the whole world Windows into what's happening in Gaza but they are being a many of them are being besmirched by excessively and repetitive campaign to suggest that they can't be doing their jobs properly and I would suggest any way that the most Media organisations.

If not all would send a war of this size and this length would send a team of different reporters in on a regular basis.

I know what it's like having been sleeping on the floor with my one or two nights when bombs are falling.

All Around You how did grey did you become and how desperate you become never mind doing it for more nearly 5 months?

Media organisation will have a team rota of correspondence and camera Cruise and produces and fixes to refresh regenerate and recharge that you have freshminds fresh Fresh brains on a obviously an extremely important developing story all those reasons I would suggest that we need to have access foreign journalists need to have access so we all report to different audiences in different parts of the world so an Arabic speaker might not be understood by those in America or Britain Europe there's a lot of reasons why you should be in there and certainly a functioning democracy and those interested in feeding media should see that as incredibly important to know the Israeli say they have never and would never target journalists what we do know is that is very unsafe in Gaza right now a recent report from the committee to protect you unless there's three quarters of the 99 journalist killed in 2023 wearing Gaza

Would you want to go in yourself absolutely and most of those people who signed that letter wood as well, we've got some very hefty support from very high profile presenters as well because we need them you know we need everyone to be speaking as one on this and just from the BBC this Clive myrie, if you Fiona Bruce Sarah Michelle Hussain reeta chakrabarti.

You've left their way to this.

They are all very very reputable journalist who have a great deal of experience as well as those who actually go in Jeremy Bowen Orla Guerin a whole host of Sky reporters such as Stuart Ramsay Channel 4 Lindsey hilsum Alex Thompson amazing names high-profile journalist.

Lots of them prepared to go and the idea has previously said it can't guarantee the safety of journalists in Gaza it is such obvious a small piece of land, so densely populated as we know we've seen what's happening already is it possibly unlike any other warzone? You would have reported on from in your career.

I mean it's certainly a huge going on there that the idea for Israel can't guarantee your safety that would be the sort of conditions that you go into any hostile environment.

Where was going on such as Ukraine when most of us have been covering for more than 2-years.

Risk is increased it certainly increases the necessity for journalists to be in there.

I would say because it's been going on for nearly 5 months.

We do not have.

And this is multiple attempts this isn't just the first time that anyone tried to get in and for nearly 5 months all those attempts have failed so you're not even before and Association of Israel appeal to the Supreme Court of Israel to get access and that was turned down with the idf arguing that it could be good at risk in wartime was that applies to every that they could endanger soldiers by reporting on true positions that also applies in every war and that it's too dangerous for Israel Israel personnel Israeli personnel to be present at the border facility at present in in Garda I don't think any of these reasons really constitutes valid reasons for why orange and they shouldn't be allowed in going in with the idf is very restricted like it is any military and any embed a wide enough you of what's going on there.

Sorry.

I just wondered what you would think you realistically could manage to do what would you be aiming for?

Is it about it? Would you be asking for interviews with famous leaders? Would you be trying to track down Israeli hostages? Would you be working with agencies with that realistically by the way that you could get access of course could get access to the place of what you want to achieve whether those are achievable a different but a different but obviously every foreign correspondent every journalist wants to find all the Hammers leader who are apparently hiding in tunnels.

Are they hiding in tunnels? No one knows are they hiding butter behind civilians.

We want to find out and confirm or disprove that can we talk to be other German that's who's got every time.

We cover anything a good journals will land wherever they are and talk to the local people everyone.

Who's there about the find I when it says.

Fitness it themselves we can't do that in Gaza with when you go in accompanied by the idf they're not even allowed to talk to any Palestinians to your only source is the idea of soldiers who were taking you in now has Jeremy Bowen very eloquently put put it and many other reported that made this point as well.

They wanted to show ever won Jeremy but we must surmise that now they don't want people to see what's going on the ground.

We will never know and the only way to approve or disapprove some is allegations of very serious ones of war crimes and now they even more serious one of genocide is to get us in there and either prove or disprove it.

I have countries.

Are you in your reporting of the Israeli hostages in Gaza well, obviously, that's a huge issue and just and that's one that's very concerning.

I'd love to be amongst a group of reporters or on my

Who found some of the hostages and spoke to them and found out what the conditions are aware, they are and how they are and how frightened they are and whether they're getting access to food and water or what's going on the right now.

We can't do that and surely that is a big part of what's going on in guys that we are missing out on Alex Caldwell from sky thank you so much for coming on the program and we did invite Israeli and Egyptian authorities to respond to the letter, but nobody wanted Levi responded in time to come on anyway, but I would like to bring in Ayesha hazarika and Tim on as consumers of news you too.

I wonder what your senses of the coverage of the Israel Gaza war and would it be enhanced by the world news outlets getting access to the warzone?

Are you sure that I vote of course I suppose you would definitely be welcome.

I think there are fundamental to probably too big for this 30-minute programme Katie about how I 24/7 news media covers war and I think I'm getting sound during World War II the BBC just had to 15-minutes News Bulletin because we're all too busy fighting the Nazis whether you can see war in the way that we do without 27 24/7 Media culture and be supported with the strategic objectives and not lost track because of the individual outrages and ups and downs.

I don't know I think the fundamental questions about how the media cover wore this is.

Are you sure I mean? I think Alex makes such a powerful coherent case for 4-year together in there in together because it's so important particularly with this conflict.

This is a conflict which whether you like it or not.

It's really affecting the psychology of this country people are devastated on on all different sized about what's happening in this war and this was also war of information and disinformation.

So it's so so important to get in there for all the reason the Alex and her said I think the only thing I would add to that is Alex made the point that some of the veracity and the quality of the journalism who is Palestinian journalist who are in Gaza being questioned.

I think that's been question for sort of political means.

I would hope that if Western journalists got in it didn't mean that their quality of John

Superior to the journalist and that was already coming out from the local journalist who are being incredibly breathe as as Alex said, I think you need a foreign Media going in should be bolstering the work of local journalist not doing a sort of takeover of of their work and their names because they will have a perspective on this as well absolutely agree with you and that and I definitely would not want to give that impression that we are in any way better.

It's definitely supporting them.

They have been all windows we need to support them.

You're absolutely right.

That's very definitely a vacuum where people are able to project their negative criticism of the what's the new genus and it was in no way coming for me or any of the people are on that letter absolutely to pick up something you were saying earlier about to defect in the psychology of this country.

Does it return to the division throwing up by what's happening?

How it's been playing out in the UK that was the angry scenes in Parliament last week protest outside MPs offices I want to bring in Caroline Wheeler political editor of the Sunday Times because you Caroline where the story about the wider ongoing issue of the last few years and Times of MPs safety you focus on three female MPs just tell us about your exclusive and how you got it, so really started with the scenes that we saw of Parliament last week, which was all around the vote that was being brought forward in terms of the opposition day debate by the SNP and the decision that the speaker took it all about it was all about the fire and and and basically it should have been an SNP motion but the speaker because he was concerned or said he was concerned about my safety brought forward at both of Labour amendment and the government amendment which breached protocol which he himself recognised with a bold step but he made quite an emotional at speech to the house in Defence of his decision basically saying that he done it because he wanted to give.

Possible opportunity for debate around the motion surrounding ceasefire, which you know ranged income intensity about with who talking about this time now as sustainable ceasefire some people would have argued that a lot of that is with antics with semantics because the situation is very difficult there as we seen even with the discussions this week around what is this far would look like and where the Hammers would want to continue to play a party etc etc, but what the speaker said was that the reason that he had done that was because he was really genuinely concerned about the safety of MPs and I think it's you know when you hear that and you could see the emotion with which he was speaking he talked about not wanting to take a telephone call again from somebody telling him that a colleague could died had been murdered as it happened David Amos and indeed priorities arrival with jo Cox that he was visibly upset about it.

So other Sunday paper.

We have a little bit more time to interrogate things and I'll daily colleague.

I started talking to my sources about really the veracity of that statement and partly because they were real questions particularly on the conservative benches about whether that was true excuse and also I mean even the concerned that really what he was responding to the Threat that was face to labour MPs in particular and always suggesting that served or alive did the matter so actually started looking at that to Siri how serious that was and speaking to sources really cross the house both MP that were experiencing those issues, but also security sources and home office sources and it became clear quite quickly that actually the Threat that was being faced by MPs in particular is really serious and people talking to us and record basis about some the threats that they were facing but also really worryingly that their families will be coming a soft target which was actually the thing that kind of beginners looking at this evening.

And the kind of Revelation that we got ultimately was that these three female MPs were been given close protection by private security firms and chauffeur driven cars which are normally just reserved for those Cabinet ministers with national Security portfolios 31 million in funding for security for MPs the husband of Jo Cox the MP murdered in 2016 early responded saying what we really need is the ability to disagree well with passion, but I hatred all your years in Westminster Caroline and reporting on politics.

Have we reached the low point in as Brendan Cox puts it or ability as a society to disagree well.

It's interesting that we're talking about that now.

It's very reminiscent of those conversations that we had during brexit and you know what I was there when we were seeing people standing outside parliament and MPs even being interviewed for Media programs like

Being heckled and indeed feeling very intimidated by protesters at that particular time outside Parliament so you know I don't think it's that we haven't become aware of I think you know perhaps there was there was more of it on social media now.

It's happening a lot more in person.

I think the sort of protest that we've seen have escalated some of that but it's not think absolutely new it's just something that I think is increased ok.

Well.

You know let's stay with that thought the medias role in helping us disagree well at leandersson, the former.

Tory deputy chairman said something been used it's called outrage for Tom he's lost the conservative whip he talked about the London mayor Sadiq Khan Being under the control of islamists lead to days of coverage and accusations of islamophobia Ayesha hazarika be nominated as a labour peer you're a former advisor to the party Tim Montgomerie you started conservative home and you also advised Boris Johnson's government.

I mean let me start with you.

Are you sure Lee Anderson said this comment on GB news?

The channel which also employs him as a presenter nearly a week on it's still being talked about do you think the media is got this out of proportion?

No, I don't think the media is got this out portion and with that list of many identities.

You gave me I'm also a Muslim and I have to see the those comments made by the Anderson I just found to be so completely depressing I wasn't surprised by them because sadly requite used to that kind of hatred at the moment.

We are living in an era.

Where are politics and some sections of our media are fuelling a lot of division and hatred so I wasn't about it at all.

And I actually think that the media terms of islamophobia and anti-muslim Prejudice we've had comments you even recently Trevor Kavanagh comments guido Fawkes made a horrible tweet event deleted the one of the funders of GB news, Paul Marshall

Had to delete some some tweets which were very critical of Muslims very stereotypical but Muslims so I think that for many of us and there's not many of us are the waiting in the media that have any kind of a platform we're not used to actually seen it being cold out.

We're almost like just expected to sort of suck it up and live.

It's actually I'm surprised in in a reasonably not a positive because nothing positive about the story that actually has been I think quite something to see the media taking the story seriously and it has taken journalist Robert Peston as one Rafael interestingly both of Jewish heritage calling this and making this point about asymmetry of these comments been switched around if we Anderson and made these comments about you being controlled by Jewish people are being controlled by Zionist than you know that would been an absolute Hue and Cry

I actually think that the media some sections the media whip up a lot of division and and hatred against Muslim people I actually think in this instance it right that the media is reporting this and it's pursuing it and it's calling people are actually giving the surname of islamophobia and some minister.

Just wanted to ring you when they're just on that point you as immediate.

Got it out of proportion and and you know what's the m Welwyn and trying to calm things won't defend what leandersson said particular Harry said it.

Where are experiencing at the moment rise in anti semitic anti-muslim on Britain's streets and politicians to be incredibly careful.

How they speak and leandersson wasn't careful the criticism of his week on Prime

Is my conservative Instinct to the actually say that it was somehow he was indulging in something on London streets, because it was just that was a day for him to say I am concerned that the media are much more interested in racism and bigotry as an issue it dominates the headlines in a way that I don't think does Justice to Britain's race relations and also can be a way of avoiding the tissues most Muslims in Britain and decent make a massive contribution to our Society but there is a problem.

It's a minority extreme subculture within Islam in Britain that is causing certain problems.

It is why we were talking about a security.

It's why the streets of London I'm being police.

At the moment is why we talking about his role as a foreign concept rather than other countries should bring in Hannah White sorry cos she's been sitting here quietly Hannah White from The Institute for Government 10 leandersson.

Did on GB news with that he was playing to a particular audience and he's employed by the channel because he's a good communicator gets attention.

He says controversial thing you were too busy yesterday.

That looks at recent controversial state politicians including the Anderson and you said the obvious but worrying truth is that some members of each party received potential electoral advantage in such extreme views, I'm interested in what you mean by that.

I mean I think I have to pick him up on for the same leandersson wasn't careful enough in what he said because I think the Anderson was very deliberately saying the things she said it wasn't a decision and his language.

I don't think and I do think it's really important that we now having this debasing in the media about anti-muslim Prejudice as well as anti-semitism.

I feel as though.

Much less precision and accuracy around the way people talk about Islam and the problems that they may be but that is more generally that then if you compare to to anti-semitism and people in the Jewish faith, and there's a lot more understanding that was acceptable and what isn't but I think that the there is a sense of feeling to certain parts of the electorate and this is partly I think the media has got so interested in the story that actually it speaks directly to the general election because we have a history of issues in our two main parties is on a phobia questions around that with the Conservative Party questions around anti-semitism in the Labour Party and so then he is very interested in this is going to end credits of the British person.

I think Tim is doing a bit of a very well by the way we have.

Reviews on this is doing a distraction on this wherever there is extremism or violence or lawbreaking politicians and the media she talk about that Without Fear or favour.

What is very very dangerous and very damaging is when there is such an easy symmetry and you tie and smear people and stereo we don't say that all Catholics V the child abuse that would just be wrong if there are problems and of course.

I'm not do not do not denying that there are problems.

You look at our MP's Stephen Timms was attacked David Amos was killed that was by islamist terrorists Jo Cox was murdered by right wing terrorist Rosie Cooper there was a horrible plot to murder and kill her by right-wing terrorism.

I don't think it's very very dangerous when you use a political agenda to weaponize wanting to deal with discrimination and Prejudice and we are running out.

So just think they should give them.

The other Dangerous Thing is it definitely if we don't face up to discrimination and that is the problem but I think another problem Hannah and expressing that begin with the view that she the default is that biting discrimination is the number one challenge actually.

I don't think Lee was full of hatred when he said he was very clumsy and he was wrong to say what he did but his Focus was the policing of London with the insecurity to time and I would like to just bring her back in is it one of those stories examples with the longest to say something for storing won't let it go clearly these to do you know it's it's a big story doesn't it is a story but do you think you know is it around? What does it mean to Starlight because what about Star Wars in for sooner rather than actual concerned about islamophobia and

I think it could be both and I think we need it is more interested because of the implications for the election, but I think you are genuine questions which political party is also bringing to the fore and and the point I was trying to make it my pieces that there's a real responsibility on political parties.

They have lots of they think they're incentives around what they saying what they allowed and what they can do them or do not condemn in terms of the language of people use around where they get criticised for it electoral advantage and so on but they also have to think about real-life examples and effect on MPs have been discussing and I think we could keep talking about this and I would like to keep talking about it, but I'm afraid we have run out of time.

Thank you so much you always coming on the media show illuminating as ever heated sometimes.

That's what we like and we'll be back next week.

Thank you so much for listening goodbye.