Read this: Andrea Catherwood talks to Jon Kay about Fairy Meadow

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts hello and welcome to come true Crime podcasts ever do more just tell a rollicking good story the presenter of BBC fairy Meadow explains, how his investigation uncovered of potential new lead in a 50-year old case of a missing child this one particular email it came in back in April from a lady who works in education in New South Wales intriguing from the I want to say a very big.

Thank you to John for the latest new episode of fairy Meadow John never gives up and his so compassionate in the way that he talks to people for him this must still be a trauma which is here to discuss the challenges and responsibilities of delving into personal family traumas also we here why an interview with a charity boss on Woman's Hour provoked.

Curious debate among listeners, you could hear the shark in the women's voices at this unnecessary onslaught and it made from comfortable listening, but worse it achieves nothing and how do you pick a good read think the diversity if I guess some books that they bring discussed with Harriet always interest me we put your thoughts on a good read to the person in charge, but first fairy.

Meadow is a true Crime podcasts that tells the story of 3-year old Cheryl Grimmer she vanished from an Australian beach back in 1970 reporter John Kay has been following the story four years has Charles family continued their search for answers and justice as detailed in his original series The Search seems to be running out of steam after a court case collapsed but earlier this week.

We heard there been an important breakthrough a retard you text you if you investigated the unsolved.

Appearance of a British child from an Australian beach more than 50 years ago says new information given to a BBC podcast is very credible and should be fully investigated by police with John been telling me how he came across this new information or since we launched the podcast last year.

I think we've had 4/2 million listings all over the world that we've had hundreds of emails in my thoughts and ideas and possibilities and some of them are on the beach that day some of them knew somebody most of the time what they were suggesting sadly tied together.

It was obvious that it was the wrong day or something but this one particular email it came in back in April from a lady who works in education in New South Wales intriguing from the start because she said that old friend of hers had talked over years about the fact that he remember seeing a teenage boy but fairy Meadow Beach on that day carrying a

The little girl thought he was who shrieking and screaming that never been a sighting quite like that before at the time so many of our listeners who were listening to the original podcast have got in touch since this new episode k might.

Hi there.

Just got more I just want to thank John k for the new episode and update on this touching and sad story, what's the new Witness coming forward is encouraging as a father of a young daughter.

I found listening to his excuses for not coming forward extremely frustrating and his attitude very blase John I like many people listen to this new piece of evidence of potentially evidence and you have the big question is how on Earth could this man not have come forward by credible.

Did you think he was he seemed very credible to me when I first spoke to him.

He wasn't expecting a call at that moment but he was very happy to chat this isn't somebody and I spoke to her.

You know it is French describing a loud mouth or anything like that is quite shy guy he's quite private.

He runs his own business and he doesn't seem to be after a tension in he didn't seem to be aware of the fact that there's a big reward from the police on offer in New South Wales on certain that took took her turn off to work to be told I was my mum and dad and my sister.

I'll come out of the voice change room and my sister come out of the girls shoes in front of me.

Slightly and glands behind me and I'll see you in year old adult sort of thing inside of false tried with this baby in his arm and his hip low on his hip the reason why he didn't speak at the time to the police.

On about what he saw what he said he didn't realise what he seen all the potential significance of it.

He was a kid he was leaving the beach in a hurry because of a sudden sandstorm with sister he remembers this happening, but he said then they went home about 10 miles away.

They didn't speak English they never tell you didn't read the local paper.

They just did the child gone missing that day but he said he can pinpoint it to the 12th of January 1970 because that was the day that the afternoon, but there was this notorious southerly Buster wind doesn't come forward in the 50 something years since then well remember in Australia this this story basically disappeared from the news for pretty much all that time to mention in the local papers, but but not really anything even today A lot of people in the wollongong area didn't really know about this story until we release the podcast last year.

Interesting you mentioned that this email arrived in your inbox originally in April so you haven't heard it's taken some time and I wonder what the considerations you add where about turning this into a podcast and by interviewing him rather than perhaps taking it straight to the police.

I mean I wonder how that works because clearly at the BBC if it's a public service Duty that you have with that comes a lot of responsibility when I first spoke to him.

I said have you thought about going to the police and he said I thought about it, but I'm I'm not sure I said, what would you consider talking to a retired police officer who knows the case who might just chat to you about what you saw and he might be able to tell you whether he thinks that that could be relevant New South Wales and the official investigation.

Obviously I've been involved in any discussions between him now and and the police and clearly this is just the beginning of April

Investigation I I'm not a private detective you're not I'm not a police officer.

I'm a generally so I've asked the questions as a journalist, but obviously now.

It's up to the police to do the proper side of this investigation to decide where it might go in the future for the latest new episode of fair Meadow John never gives up and his so compassionate in the way that he talks to people for whom this must still be a trauma 50-years on the podcast perfectly pitched to give voice to the family's loss and just sort of stir-up the few embers of Hope which occasionally flare up again and bring something new as they have this time my school friend who was age 12 was murdered by a teenager back in the 1970s and just listening to this podcast that has helped me process that the little bit.

Just a try and comprehend what his family went through back then.

Thank you for all that you're doing really appreciate it.

Just listening to what gym has to say they're ready does make you think and I wonder if you feel when you're doing this that you have a huge responsibility absolutely and I'm glad that Jim things that we've done it sensitively and carefully we really tried to produce a Chrysler God and I have had that in our minds right from the very beginning that the true Crime category of cost globally sometimes some of the stuff in in there.

I'm not particularly fond of that some of it treated as a case as an investigation sometimes some of the descriptions and some of the stories that you hear on these true Crime podcast can be a bit ghoulish and and you know almost like a horror almost like it.

It's not real.

I think what we do.

Conscious of with fairy Meadow from the stars is it this is a real story about a real family? It's about a real experience and it's about the impact of that moment when Cheryl disappeared and the act of a never been found in the never having answers John when I was listening to the latest podcast the update I got the sense that perhaps there is more information that you know came out through the interview that you did that you're not able to put in the public domain and I wonder if I wonder if I just got that wrong or are the fact that you know that you don't feel that you want to discuss right now that might be for the podcast.

I'll stick with it for us for as long as it takes.

I mean who knows I check the mailbox every day and we'll keep it whatever happens with it here or Australia roll with the police investigation or yeah.

I mean I'm sorry not going to let it go this wasn't just a one off it.

It's a commitment and I think commitment to the family but now it's equally a commitment to the

Listen to who is so invested in it as well.

I want to know what happens next well.

Thanks to John k and all 9 episodes are available on BBC signs.

What's the hottest topic in the feedback inbox this week you don't use the word women as endometriosis charity understand the concerns that sometimes language go too far.

So let me just say that you're happy to use the word woman, but you're not going to use it when describing in a tweet about your appointment and in this new role.

You're not going to use it when discussing endometriosis Emma Barnett there on woman's are interviewing staff Richards the CEO of the charity endometriosis south Coast has endometriosis herself.

It's a painful condition that affects the tissue outside the uterus and in the interview she explored staff Richard suitability as a trans woman to run the

Alongside the chair Jodie Hughes you have you have you have to have been born as I buy for women with the ingredients of being a woman inside you to suffer from this disease because of the way that tissues like the womb lining moves around the body is an inflammatory condition.

We need to move away from the gynaecological side of things because you don't have to be born with the interview provoked a huge reaction online and amongst feedback listeners.

My name is and I live in London for two interviewees were clearly inexperienced on National radio could have been questions more kindly.

I'm a charity promoted more positively.

I said they've received hate mail and this game is neither acknowledgement or m.

A thing to be a deliberate misunderstanding and indeed a Mocking on social media afterwards at the charity offer support to women who have transition to men and stuff endometriosis and the support is not offered to men in general was necessary just endometriosis possibly using it as a shorthand for sinus female at birth interviewees used the word literally same one was not needed to have endometriosis and a short Google search shows endometriosis Kennedy remain after surgical removal and so an opportunity to clarify this and educate the public was sadly missed, but there's another issue that you being a trans activist.

Are you a trans activist can someone who isn't trans baby.

Can someone who isn't trans BBC over trans organisation woman they were on about have some men can have the condition really this appointment has sidelined the very good work that charities on the press.

Have done to highlight this very serious condition good on you Emma back.

This is Lucy maximum Grimsby I'd like to complain about the recent interview conducted by Woman's Hour presenter Emma Barnett interview with endometriosis charity Steph and Jodie began by informing us that a certain amount of controversy that followed the appointment of a trans woman and CEO but rather than moving on to the charity itself all the condition as I would expect from Woman's Hour what followed can only be described as hostile haranguing of the trans woman wear subject to increasingly aggressive questioning every repair.

The talks over or cut off mid sentence you could hear the shock in the women's voices of this unnecessary onslaught and it made from comfortable listening.

The worst is achieved nothing for all the attempts at basing.

There was no revelation no scandal.

We didn't learn anything about anything in fact.

We learnt nothing about endometriosis Barnet did Botha interviewees and Injustice and frankly I expect better from Radio 4 Woman's Hour McCann from Lanarkshire I listen to the endometriosis interview on Woman's Hour via the BBC sounds thought Emma Barnett appear to approach this difficult subject in a balanced way particularly, because she managed to keep the two interviewees on side for the whole interview so that they freely express their opinions found the whole interview.

Formative invited Woman's Hour to come on the program, but nobody was available instead.

They gave us this statement Woman's Hour regular.

Covers all aspects of women's health including Enderman vs.

Both contributors understood that the focus of this interview was the widespread criticism of the appointment of Steph Richards a trans woman as CO4 women's health charity.

This is a fair and last interview and both stuff and the charities chair Jodie Hughes were given the opportunity to address this criticism in full know I'd like to tell you about our Christmas programme on the 22nd of December we're going to be announcing the feedback interview of the year and of course it's going to be chosen by you the listener, so we're looking for your suggestions.

It's for an outstanding single interview be an amazingly revealing discussion with a celebrity forensic cross-examination of a politician or an emotionally charged personal conversation anything which made you stop?

It must have been broadcast on any of the BBC radio stations are on BBC signs all you have to do is domination and tell us in just a few sentences.

Why did such an impact and don't worry if you can't remember exactly when it went out.

Just give us whatever details you do remember and we'll do our best to find it nominations close at midnight on December 10th we're going to a winner on Friday the 22nd of December as you can send us an email feedback at bbc.co.uk you can still write to us if you it's feedback PO Box 672 34 London se1p 4ax on 0343 444 5004 and on social media.

It's at BBC R4 feedback a good read is one of the longest-running programmes on Radio 4.

Been on since 1977 book club where each week the presenter Harriett Gilbert and two guests choose a book page which all three reads and then critique and discuss.

It's a pretty simple former, but what makes it works so well at the moment will be hearing from BBC audio to have drama arts and classical music and Harding but first year of the thought of Barbara Kirby reader.

I still prefer to have a paper book in my hands.

Don't like to read things digitally or electronically and I do listen to me for a lot so good read isn't obvious choice to me.

I think the diversity of the guests and books that they bring and discuss with Harriet always interest me some time to be a book but I've read and I like to discover if other people's perception with the characters and the stories ever same as my own are very different recent.

My daughter passage from a book and it wasn't cold which is the first in a series of four and I just found it so beautiful and so I went and borrowed it straight away.

I looked at the reviews on the website and I looked at the cover of the book and realise that I cannot on the synopsis.

I would never ever of loan that book or thought I would be intrigued by it.

It's not my cup of tea.

It was a fat Harry's without the passage.

So that was really lovely and thank you Harriet I should carry on listening to the program as Barbara where I've been listening and I've perhaps discovered authors, but I'd actually never heard of or I've been prompted to read a book that I had planned to but I've never got round to a new it's something that happens to other people to is is that really at the horse of a good read? It's trying to persuade people perhaps to read something they've never thought of.

And thank you for getting in touch.

I'm very pleased you enjoy the program.

That is one of the pleasures.

That is shared by both the guests that we invite on to the program and hopefully by the listeners this with books that he might does not pick up yourself because you're not try to buy the subject matter or or by the cover but because of the program and because of the you might just be tempted to try something that you wouldn't normally try and I think that is the hearts of a good read and also the range of guests that we invite on to the program.

It's not just committed bookworms on the oven is that as well as writers and critics will across here will speak to chef some musicians scientists artists stories comedians television presenters, and I think it's applicability of voice which leads to such a variety of book choices and it's really those collisions and contrast that make the essence of the

I've actually been a guest on the programme myself some time ago.

I really enjoyed it.

It was though really because it was a delicious challenges trying to find that one book that I wanted to play with other people at that particular time and I mean if I would do it again now.

I'm sure he is a completely different book is putting that program together.

I'm finding that mix of 3 books each week must be very important.

Yes, I think it's the chemistry that you can't quite predicts and that comes down often to the Producers instinct and I'm very lucky to have a team of producers who work on this program.

So you don't know the format of the program.

We invite to guests on each week who to eat cheese a book and Harry Gilbert are presenter.

Also she's as a book and all three participants have to read all three books other of our guests that makes them really interesting exchanges and often unexpected.

Parallels and always agree with each other's off and polite disagreement or sometimes that's the best but sometimes.

I don't agree.

I knew that can be very entertaining.

How do you judge that though because I wonder if there is such a thing as a guest who can be too rude about a book.

I think they encourage robust but Harriet's Gilbert are presenter is really skilful about rebalancing a conversation if it's going too far in One Direction and I think she's very good at supporting a retaking might feel that their choice of book is under attack because of course we all feel so passionately about the books.

We love I mean I think we feel possessive about them quite often and she's a very personal choice and we want people to come to the programme with books that have meaning for them.

That's what that's really the only brief that we give us please choose something that.

See or speak to you that there are extremely well-known books that participants were encouraged not to choose and you don't want people discussing Wuthering Heights every week, what kind of books perhaps maybe not the ones that we expect get the most listener engagement will go down really well, but I think I think it's those discoveries those books that you wouldn't otherwise I picked up if you haven't heard about them on a good read and we do see the book sales do go up of books that we discuss on the and we engage with customers on social media.

We have an Instagram account and listeners can continue the conversation after the program and often do know Michael has been in touch.

I'm listening to a good read.

I love influence my young daughter Phoebe to pay attention to your excellent program was really surprised at the clumsy and inaccurate comments.

Repeat of a good read I went out on the 19th of October by wherever reminder for listeners the programme highlighted to epic expedition and survival stories rugby team aircraft crash in the Andes mountains in October 1972 and Ernest shackleton's legendary trans-antarctic expedition during the First World War II instead of the 1972 crash said it was an oversimplification to say that they ate each other in reference to the Dire situation facing the young rugby players.

This is an awful thing to say and pandas to the tabloid third aspect of this epic story of survival.

It is insensitive because people might mistakenly think that some kind of foul play was involved.

Where is that they had no choice but to eat the dead bodies of their friends and comrades who died in the crash and the fatal of lights that it could 17 days later.

I think an apology is due to those who survived such as the Great

Corrado Roberto canessa and the families and crew of the 29 who did not make it.

Thank you just put into context about from a conversation.

I'll get it was part of the artist and the book that she had chosen for her good read was South by Ernest Shackleton which talks about his Antarctica and the incredible survival story of his crew and Connolly was talking in that context about her appreciation of in endurance literature and she listed books that she had appreciated one of which was Miracle in the Andes but Nando parrado and he was one of the survivors of the air crash in the Andes in 1972 and she was saying how much she had been impressed by the book and being impressed by him because I think she had him talking to a festival so Harriet's comment on that point was was.

Just ignore that we couldn't get into the complexity of that book because that wasn't the book under discussion but I'm sorry if that came across as insensitive because that sent you going to be in the intention.

I hope that's a surprise for that book miracle in the Andes would encourage listeners to go and seek it out themselves.

Have you ever had a guest who hasn't read the other books I suspect that some happened particularly when you put upside gas that aren't bookworms that don't read very often but have usually been carried by the other guests stand by our presenter Harriet so that you hopefully don't stop when that's that's the case, but yes, yes, it's always at Heart sinking moment for the producer Emma I can imagine and thanks very much to Emma Harding for joining us on feedback and finally there is nothing feedback listeners like more than a BBC interviewee who is prepared to engage.

Directly with criticism and to say sorry well, I think the first thing it would be you know sorry send me your suggestion.

You know we can we can pass it on to a very hard work.

Well.

That's Paddy O'Connell on last week's program responding to comments about his presentation style during the ceremony of remembrance at the Cenotaph loads of you have been in touch to say how much you care for example is Marcia Cooper thank you Paddy for the way you receive listener criticism of your presentation last week at the Cenotaph you are very few whoever seem to accept for the comments and restless.

When are Critical of a program presentation or whatever might might just possibly be worth considering what it is worth.

I totally appreciated your commenting on Remembrance Day quality speed fiction and tone of voice extremely important to me a useful highly on all of that by the way, but there is no in what things look like I often think that presenters forget that they're on radio and fit them on TV you however do this pretty well almost as good as audio ruffle used to another compliment Paddy and my thanks to Paddy to for engaging so graciously with feedback listeners.

Well.

That's all for this week from me and all the team.

Thank you so much for listening and for giving us your feedback goodbye.

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That's not let you just do that.

I'm Sue Mitchell and this story unfolded in California on the street, where I live until your house is a con artist mother is David dangerous interloper all the terms of Keira he claims to be from BBC Radio 4 on BBC sounds.