Read this: BBC Sounds Five Years On

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts hello hello remember this morning to go this week back by a star-studded TV promo campaign the BBC launched music Radio podcasts BBC sign in with build ambitions to transform the way we listen to audio and with the help of a star-studded marketing campaign.

Hope to appeal to a younger audience well, we asked you for your thoughts on BBC signs the search engine is very people that often fail to find program to looking for and when one wants to look at programs website is extremely to have good at what you like what you don't like.

And today on feedback will be hearing from one of the people who launched it Jason Phipps between the launch in June which wasn't phonetic period and then the over fully in October there was a lot of squeaky bum time during that period and from the current director of Signs Jonathan wall on his ambitions for the next five years on a quarter quarter bassist there's loads of things we want to keep improving for the audience of benefit arrears on BBC science has around 4.8 million hours a week in the UK that means it's definitely in the top three listening platforms alongside apple and Spotify but the BBC doesn't provide figures for how many new listeners, it's been able to attract Jason Phipps was a podcast at the BBC One signs launched in our leads the development team as independent production company Chuck and blade he remembers.

Just had a challenging the launch was.

I mean it really felt to me like I was jumping on a fast-moving train at that point my team were the first none radio team if that makes sense.

There's plenty of podcasts radio shows that became very good gas and there was something podcast around but we were the first purest we are running is the purest in some sense into you know really think the box.

This was a brand new very kind of powerful new platform a real statement a real inflection point in the history of radio and audio in the UK we were brought into Jack new ideas and approaches really was the kind of beating heart of it.

He was the director of of radio at the time said to me that this is a year too early and 2 years too late.

I think it felt like that for many people.

I remember very well at the time of the launch and there was very much of feeling that it was in a way being rushed out perhaps not quite ready.

Another way that the BBC was possibly already behind the game because you were gonna be good to catch up with apple and Spotify and whatever is it from your perspective well BBC sounds and that phase were trying to do the 9 possible which is really to retain and grow and it's very easy.

I think to cut loose handbrake into a pioneering G and attract new audiences bill something very Glitz and glam, but it's another thing to create a real town square around podcast heritage and Legacy radio audience huge audiences for then younger audiences who don't have an automatic radio habit, but are definitely building these podcast have a bit of a particular kind into the media diet.

So you know it really was quite a precarious balance between the launch in June which wasn't phonetic period and

Switch over fully in October there was a lot of squeaky bum time during the periods you were brought in a way as a kind of disruptor you talked about doing things like hopepunk the way you are going to to bring a lot of new young Voices in and actually were talking about doing things like creating something that would rival The Avengers having it was very ambitious at the time you what would you say when you're a big hit that you commissioned to sort of really you know creatively change the approach so as you one of those we create we can the missing cryptoqueen join me Jamie Bartlett as I search for Dr ruja and the truth about her company 1/4 is really about looking at narrative investigations as it was it was a huge hit we did make an impact in the sense that I think we we did definitely in terms of just the impact of the shows broady and people to understand that.

It wasn't just catch up.

You know that these limited run series could be very impactful purposeful, and we I'm in my team commissions the Peabody award-winning George the Poet some of you.

I'm just another artist rapping but if my art can change someone's destination, would you call that entertainment or education and also with the Panorama PBS Frontline collaboration and I'm not a Monster where really big current affairs investigation it would just Baker could again have that impact you're being confronted in that moment with evidence of atrocities and you know the side back.

I think there was nothing I could do they took my password on my phone so we try to lean in and do shows that really didn't fit on radio stations that was the purpose was to do things that really radio networks would naturally be able to broadcasted in fit in the schedule and what about that.

Play today at the beginning that you would bring in new listeners younger listeners, who haven't listened to Linear radio who would not BBC natives did that work? You're definitely do it.

I mean platforms really grown it sits alongside Spotify apple podcasts part of the big three.

I think that is an incredible achievement for everyone everyone across the board and retain links substantially retain does radio audiences does linear audience people really just want to hit it hit it hit the favourites station and have a great companion network along.

Yeah.

I absolutely I did work and definitely younger audiences came in I mean that the Struggle Within the whole media system is which is how how do you how do you battle against can have you? How do you offer audio experiences that can compete against these incredibly powerful visual ear on social media networks?

Your question but I do think younger consumers are getting a really fantastic pics of content that improve.

Could that be more ambitious? Yeah, of course the BBC has very high standards the teams are doing great work.

It's a very competitive market in podcasting.

It's changed dramatically since it launched, but nothing is now integrating yourself into all of those huge platform.

So very competitive.

I think the BBC has done remarkably well with the resources considering Jason Phipps thank you very much now that I've been lots of changes since BBC's launched audio streaming is an increasingly competitive market and listers have seemingly endless choices.

It's expanding all the time as tech Giants like YouTube and even tiktok.

I said nothing to get more involved in podcasts what I am delighted to say that director of Signs Jonathan wall is with me know when signs launched around a third.

Podcast listeners where 16 to 20/4 really young and only 6% were over 55s apparently, it does seem clear that the honest that younger audience and presumably the expectation was the over 55s would continue listening to Radio I mean that hasn't happened in the way that was imagined 5 years on a different is the picture today to the radio landscape back then if we haven't done it sounds.

He would not be insuring the healthy future of our great radio station, so that is fundamental the other point is it brings together all of BBC audio from Wetherby local or we service all Nations all in one place it brings live together with on-demand.

So it was a much bigger story for us about protecting the future of something that we all care about that.

We've been doing for 100 years that.

And we sit here now at 5 million in truth.

We have an ambition to take that to 10 million in the next 4 or 5 years.

We think we need to do that because as FM listening declines the importance of sounds that maintaining are ready and tell will only grow so you've come on and unsolicited really satellite something that's extremely ambitious because actually I think that the the listening figures have been pre-ordered sticky.

They haven't moved up very much recently and yet.

You're saying that you think that that you can actually double the number of people listening to signs just had a record week the week before last I think that if we want to be really looking after a BBC audio feature where FM listening is declining month.

Then the listening to IP because sounds and remember it's not just Mobile app.

Not just where B also smart speakers.

We just become in the new radius of the home.

It's also lost listening to your television and it's a pretty critical project yeah, and we will have many ideas.

We have to try and go that figure 210 million some of those ideas.

We were not even come up with yep, that's the level of B cells.

There was a lot of talk about attracting younger audiences when BBC signs set up Bob Shannon who was BBC director of radio at the time said want to do is to create an offer in those spaces for young audiences to be attracted to BBC I hope that will also lead them finding Radio 4 in under 5 years on.

Do you actually have a number for the people under 35 who are listening to BBC who went before it's hard to be precise on how many

Listers we are growing the number of signed in Leeds to 16 to 34 year old we'd like to grow in faster, but in truth growing it is success because it's the only number we've got and had in the last few years that grows that figure so we have round about 600000 signed in accounts of 16 to 34-in tell us the true story because we don't have the age of every user sometimes if you're listening on a smart speaker waiting on someone else's account.

We think we think it's roughly a million 16 to €30 every week and signed in 600000 if you look for example of the great work with be doing in podcasting.

I would say we have been in rude health where you'd expect us to be delivering if you like a heartland audience for enjoy their Radio 4 and 5 Live content because there's now 20% of people listening to podcast every single week.

I think it's 26% that listen to a podcast.

The last month that's growing and we're going to go on missions are calling me with that the launch.

There was this idea that they were looking for the commissioners were looking for podcast to be created that were simply podcast and not just radio programmes that were available on demand and yet when I look at the information that I have provided by the BBC on its listeners the 35th the top 3 programmes are all actually Radio 1 programmes that are being listen to On Demand no that's great, but it is quite different from what was originally can see if I join the project one year in and my view was a much broader view of delivering value to all audiences.

So it is in a new look at some of our top titles include old favourites like Desert Island Discs and Woman's Hour they also include new comedies like Jonathan pie.

New dramas like people who near me brilliant.

Series like the coming storm I'm proud of all of it if you like those sort of two different types of audience behaviour that we're looking for one is people that might enjoy a radio station like Radio 4, but they now have great choice to listen to anything they want when they want but obviously as you pointed out that content alone isn't enough so we blow answer you know we have six Degrees Jamie and Spencer by the way we've been trying to find Idris Elba it says on here for two weeks, but we've been trying to find yourself but for about 2 years looking at some recent figures the the place on demand radio and podcast content within the BBC Sounds app.

We're up 21% year-on-year and that's to a records 226 million however at the same time downloads of BBC podcast on third party platforms fell around the same number about 22% year-on-year essentially people are listening as much.

BBC as they are Elsewhere and that's the first time but that's happened.

I wonder if you can tell us a bit about BBC Zane is it to drive people to the BBC signs up or is it to find that top content for other apps when where where is BBC going with this firstly? We are the only market in the world where there is if you like a broadcast app.

That's in the top 3 there is no market in the world.

So we launched something and and it's really important.

We did cos we're in the game by having our product where actually second Spotify the moment in terms of their overall audio out consumption can I just ask you if you haven't launched BBC signs, is there any chance that the the Old player out that you know at the time 5 years ago when I went back and listen to feedback from then.

You're quite a lot of our listeners at the time was saying look we know if it's not broke.

I really like what I've got.

Why do we have to change it?

Was broken because numbers were going down.

It wasn't able to provide a brilliant live and on-demand offer it wasn't able to personalise the experience but don't realise we're listening is there are 5 million different versions of Sounds every week because everyone has a different experience depending on what the recommendations and a pudding to you so iPlayer radio doing a job for us, but it had reached the peak and product do but crucially is loads of your listeners on here often say it gives you choice if you are a 6:30 on a video for and you don't fancy comedy because you want more factual content you can make that choice.

Hello.

My name is Anne Holland from near Oxford trying to comments about I find it excellent and beautiful lot listen to programs when it's convenient and to listen to podcasts particularly America's to know newscast.

78 and 15 plus range of wonderful programs and Sons makes them so much more accessible Jo Baxter iPhone search for sounds be next to useless.

It is the BBC keep saying just search the program or sounds that only works you know what the program is called my name is Peter I listened to many hours of BBC output every week could only Radio 4 Radio 3 Radio 2 world service for extreme 6 Music the only redeeming feature BBC sounds is it gives access to BBC radio programmes the search engine is very people they often felt and programs you looking for and when one wants to look at the programs website is extremely just couldn't find Jonathan one question on functionality.

I wonder are you always tinkering with the Galaxy to make the Apple better user experience many of our listeners are big fans, but some do have issues with the app for example when you search for a programme you often don't come up with episode.

I will always incoming without yeah 5-minute hour-by-hour in many ways and my previous background was in live radio and five live where are you polish a program if you like and and this is constant iterative digital improvement I think on the point around on the episode ordering.

I think most things are intuitively in the right order.

Obviously it's a historical programme you want to start on episode 1 if it's topical program like feedback you want to start with the most recent programme mostly that works really well.

We will be rolling out to use as soon the ability for you to choose the order of whether you want your episodes from first from last or even buy most popular to listening to comments and always looking to improve the experience but I think we've made big strides actually in the and the ability of of the cleanest and clarity of what you can see always looking to.

Search you know always looking to improve Tweeks around how brighten smart the experiences when you click on her title, so there is loads and loads of tricks under the bonnet on sounds.

We are we had to help page bbc.co.uk / help where there are loads of other bits of advice that gives enrich the experience for you, but yeah constantly on a quarter by quarter basis.

There's loads of things we want to keep improving for the audiences benefit.

Thank you know if you would like to comment on anything you've heard on BBC audio would love to hear from you.

You can send us an email feedback at bbc.co.uk a voice message 03333440541 social media at BBC R4 feedback.

No 1 Series that began as a podcast before also being broadcast on Radio 4 is the Lovecraft investigations the first 3 series were initially on BBC signs only before broadcast sometime later the new episodes of being broadcast on Radio 4 at the same time they released on signs so it doesn't matter if it's streaming first or traditional radio listening the series is inspired by the works of HP Lovecraft the father of Supernatural horror fiction from home Stephen King took inspiration it follows the hosts of a modern true Crime podcast investigate conspiracies and run into terrifying cosmic entities and it's one and enthusiastic fanbase.

Hello my name is Richard and I'm from Sutton Coldfield this season of the Lovecraft investigation.

Just been excellent.

Are you have a shower while I'm driving but I feel like going to listen at home with a notebook and a cork board.

Just looking really connect the dots at one of the standout things for me is away the dialogue in the sound design.

Get out of the street.

Yeah, you change is the plan clothes and unnerving sounds going on you pick up on and then back in again later.

Have a wonderful descriptions really make you see the places that the characters were covered in more in aki and symbols.

They were old candles everywhere Ferndown into dusty pools of solid wax and on the floor a complex diagram laid out and my name is Siri on when I was extremely pleased listen to the Lovecraft investigations cos it's very rare to find a well-constructed based around the contemporary context the character stations of the main protagonist.

What's going on with the mixing of real and fictional figures as well as factual.

What's your friends it became clear we were in Spain this was the church of Starry wisdom.

What I'm delighted to say that here in the Studio with me is Julian Simpson is writer and director of Lovecraft investigations, so I'm going to hand over to Duncan Bates Glastonbury for the first question many things I love about this.

Show is the way you present yourself in the style of investigative podcast and I've heard of HP Lovecraft before listen to this show but never read about lots and I found I didn't need to have done such as you want to show you just give some references extra Residence and see my question between Simpson is this when and how will you first drawn into the world of HP Lovecraft to the extent that you wanted to present your own version.

I had been in and out of love crafts fiction since I was a teenager discovering it between short stories and stuff and it just occurred to me that many Lovecraft stories involve some kind of an investigator weather is an academic or journalist or writing modern.

Might be podcast as if the podcast this is a true Crime podcast if it's a true Crime podcast then it fits the one thing that you always need with Lovecraft witches can't see anything so everything that the characters react to is images that the the lesson is Conjuring which is how audio works best thing to the source B for this series is H P Lovecraft horror stories that they were once considered Pulp Fiction literally they were printed and cheap magazines and he was virtually unknown when he died the a lot of material like there hasn't been reappraised.

How good is it? I haven't read everything.

I think that he kind of drift in and out of Vogue he was also which you can never go on remark a massive racist even by the standards of his time and doesn't really come out in any of your work.

I know but it's some.

You have to know something fascist but you have to navigate and one of the things I love about what we've done with this is especially the latest series is to turn on its head to use Lovecraft against his own political views what I find really interesting about is how it's provided the culture.

So you don't get Stephen King without Lovecraft you don't have Ramsey Campbell Without Love brother.

Don't think you don't have James but you don't have any of the big names in horror without HP Lovecraft does seem to have been quite a high demand for this kind of Horror super detective genre on the BBC I'm thinking about a podcast like uncanny reference to true Crime podcasts, which obviously have become incredibly popular oversaturated is taking over from True Crime and is there a danger that goes the same way? I think there's a danger that everything goes that Direction wants something is successful.

It's very natural for commissioners to ask for more of it.

I don't think that horror is accelerating as hard as true crime scene one because the true Crime podcast world is absolutely saturated and yeah, they're still only a handful of good ones quite a few of our listeners have reference the signs.

You know just how important all of that is in bringing the drama important was that to you because obviously some point you just writing this and then I'm gauged.

Are you in actually turn into these episodes and indeed your actors as well.

I I heard somewhere that they actually record some of this in the back garden.

Everything is recorded on location.

Everything is done in situ.

So it's like we're shooting a movie and then in the case of the Lovecraft investigations.

We will then mess it up because we record it really really.

Well, and then we have to add handling noise and add Pops and bumps and stuff on to make it sound like a podcast as I'm making this is there such a thing as too creepy for the BBC I mean.

I'm just wondering how the kind of real move and fantastical and esoteric broadcasting fits into the kind of public service remit wouldn't have got into horror stories in Ghost Stories had it not been for not just audio stuff when I was a kid but those Emma James adaptations of Christmas on the tv, and stuff like that so I think that introducing people to new realms is really really important is definitely within the remit Tony Eccles from Exeter is concerned about the duration of the current series the first three stories were presented as 10 episode with a duration of 25 min teach this feels right.

I've ever haunter of the dark episode of between 13 and 15 minutes and then on.

Sound of the dark feels a bit rushed what is going on in the first three seasons were commissioned to BBC sounds as podcasts.

We had an open arena in terms of how long to play needs to be this time round Radio 4 jumping on the commissioning of the kind of lead and they wanted their 14-minute episode but anyone that 10 of them and BBC sounds didn't want 528 minute episodes, they also want to turn episodes in some places.

It works very well being shorter and in some places.

It feels like it and where where do you think this is going to go next it? Is there another series I know what I want to do with the 5th season, but I haven't told you know anybody there's a clear out at the end of haunter of the dark.

What the next story will be but no one knows what I'm planning to do with it and I'm hoping that will get the kind of breathing space to do another long series.

Would you?

Thank you so much for joining us under the Lovecraft investigations the haunter of the dark is on at 10:45 on BBC Radio 4 and a course all the series on BBC signs well.

That's all from feedback for this week from me and all the team.

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