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I'm walking to the media podcast I'm at digging onto they show the option to buy the Telegraph Media Group is officially on the Wales before a buyer is found on the program for 50 years old and commercial radio is in rude health if there are any indication the finding one is really like for freelancers in the TV commissioning slow down.

We speak on director frustrated by the way they've been treated in the media quiz it's time for the return of the elevator pitch in the news this week BBC director-general Tim Davie was grown up the 1922 Committee on Wednesday it's unusual moved to me to conservative group you can make or break a Tory Prime Minister the sun Harry Cole saw him believe saying he looks like he needed a good point meanwhile.

The beep has told deadline that the reboot.

British version of survival will not be polite or apologetic the show which airs on Saturday will be the first version here since he was on ITV2 decades ago and Pa Media Clive Marshall is to retire after 14 years in the job Marshalls transition the company for a national news agency to a Global Digital news brands.

We plan to spend more time taking off dozens of Scottish Munro mountains now joining me at the podcast studio so we have to Intrepid explorers of the media landscape.

Is radio producer and consultant and Charles hello hello and it's that time of year again.

Yes exactly 27th of November in London so it specialises in Engineering and Technology with the radio and audio Focus but we welcome everybody so if you're interested in the future of Media is going to be the place to be so we've got a bit of a technical behind the scenes on how Eurovision happy life and also the Coronation on how to plan your broadcast networks.

Attacked by ransomware and we also have a bursary scheme so I'm really proud of this and thank you very much for all of us Monsters but means that you can apply to come and have a free ticket will cover your accommodation if you need it and you get a years free membership to the Radio Academy that's available to anyone who's from a background underrepresented in broadcast engineering or if you are facing a financial barrier, so if your I'm not sure if that calms me then please apply the closing date is the 5th of November and all the information is at radio tech con counter Media Provocateur is James Ball hi there was a bit bloody stupid of Tim Davie to agree to talk to conservative MP's behind closed doors organised ages ago.

Director-general of the BBC it is publicly owned, it is a public broadcaster.

It needs to face of all the public and there are means for it to talk to parliament and that's the dcms committee.

That's all channels there.

This is going to look like a conservative leading DG who's known to have some connections there with conservative board members speaking in a closed for the party of government that is not good for the even if you did nothing wrong.

Just bad stuff work that should I just offered labour the same opportunity of him to come and they should go if we are talking to women terriers.

We are doing in the open or at least in a cross-party way.

It was completely public policy people in the appropriate.

They're going to have to interact with it, but I think the symbolism of your top person doing that.

I think it shows it shows too much regards to the governing party and

Turn off to the public Who at the moment polling suggest don't match trust that governing party.

I just think it was a really poor lapse of judgement on his part.

No, but as the atmosphere is more polarizable polemic and more angry and as the BBC is having to really work to sort of keep our trust and I think it deserves.

This is a fad of the BBC I think this kind of movies just down silly.

I don't think he was on the line.

I mean it is essentially he's done all of this and they're still going to be serious.

We're still going to be on CBBC and now just annoyed all the people who won't stick up for them.

So how would you turn up to invite to the 1922 committee? I mean it depends what the best bits for being so when did it? When is it because it's not something I remember happening so haven't in the 80s that would by this is an unusual move in the 80s.

It wasn't that everyone went.

Oh well, that's fine.

Of course.

This is appropriate well speaking of right-wing influence on media Telegraph are already last Friday Lloyds fired up the starting pistol on the seller Telegraph of the number of contenders who come forward and who isn't in the morning so the last I saw we have German publishers of despicable and Axel Springer I'm sure I'm thinking of his wrong dmgt the Daily Mail group you also in the Metro been interesting me for them to have a broadsheet as well, but not having a go we got will Lewis is the former Telegraph editor.

He has some idea about how to run it National Rail to run newspapers Paul Marshall who's invested in unheard and he been used as a cheque investor Rupert Murdoch apparently Martin Clarke who's x MailOnline

Presume to be announced today that the media podcast as it's now how far can it be used by thinking Axel Springer politico lot of strange that about what they said about covering politics in America that there is suspicions.

That is very much controlled by one owner who was essentially giving it by the Widow of its founder who was called Axel springer and he's got some quite strange politics for the night via into pro Trump is huge Media Empire although beset with scandal in Germany as well over has invested.

It's newsrooms has invested Welwyn politico established in the English language in the UK is he does not passes in and crucially actually can afford it with regular banking which most of the rest of these can't I see a lot of them may need some.

The Middle East and this seems to be the thing you have to declare a certain amount of where your back and comes from and very few of the other back as have any money of their own dmgt could do it with my Middle Eastern money but would hit the biggest competition problems being well, maybe not quite willing but I have to buy would have to access markets, but not nearly so much as the others the others are essentially you know ok national world has some resources.

It's Montgomery absolutely the torious an unpopulated everyday use room somewhat popular with investors.

He's quite good at bleeding as it's dry.

I can't imagine many in The Telegraph I hoping he is a long shot the others you know the Washington Post

Washington Post as a disclosure, but he's a very talented executive, but he's estranged is a strange frontman for this.

I think some more distrusted still in UK newsrooms after I mean his role was much more cleaning up what happened with News of the World phone hacking he did have to be management representative and so some of that hangs over but I think the critical problem is almost all of these players beyond dmgt axle music a is apparently more interesting The Spectator which would be much less likely to have competition concerns, but there's also rumours which actually have been reported in private eye that is a bit of a possibility in the Works that dmgt knows it would have too many newspapers, So Good by the Telegraph and sell the eye within the eye.

Sorry from what I've heard.

They would be hope oddly to some people listening that they were go to Murdoch rather than to reach because Murdoch tends to keep money in his newspapers than reach has been known to monopoly board swaps Competition Commission alarm bells especially especially if the email group is a profitable business, isn't it? Which is kind of unusual it is the Telegraph last year and have been pretty good and actually probably make more profit.

You know the Barclays were towards the end of their ownership quite cash-strapped and they needed to take the full profit out of the Telegraph to prop up the rest of the downloads which stopped working as which is white stuff for sale should be said the surviving barcode brother is also trying to put in a bit for it.

With new money I mean that you really do want these papers.

It's completely cereal but but it's actually has never been a same thing this one potentially could be I mean your pay a little bored in your shirt, but giving it to actually had chronic under investment for the last 10 years of its ownership and he still generating cats desert suggestion is probably quite a good asset hear you know similarly The Spectator is seen as more of the trophy at it.

It's not nearly as valuable, but it's backdated generates about a 7-figure profit each year you know it's a profitable magazine.

It's got a good subscriber base these are actually pretty good as it's these were the sort of Crown Jewels at the Barclay Empire the elements of right-wing Cinematic Universe with the GB news founder fancying the Telegraph as well.

An empire to become a doctor has got you can occur across platforms and you have the advantage depending on if you're allowed to work together or not if you have to keep them separate but if you want influence across multiple platforms and also having the profitable because he was essentially I think the buyer that's causing the most alarm bells and sort of sensible centre-right night.

Talk to people so they say this is a man who has had an extensive journey and his shot Media ownership career on heard was supposed to be the sensible centre right and hired a lot of people who worked on that GB news was initially as envisioned with Andrew Neil going to be very different from where it is.

I really pedals conspiracy and all of that in a broadsheet for mayor in papers with the access to Telegraph has that seems to worry people and also I think worries people who still quite happily and Bradley write for the Telegraph

You know it might have the odd Colin that you think spit out there, but this good news paper that does serious news there and I think people are a bit worried about that one.

I think he's retired.

Sorry go for that happens if they're all they not be this is actually with more than one in six sun readers when Kelvin Mackenzie was the added to sort the paper supported labour.

Well.

It will keep an eye on the runners runners and riders for the next few weeks, so we have any yesterday was it was public this morning, but the radio industry found out about yesterday was this listening figures and we could go through some headlines with me.

Yes, I have to do it.

Continues to pay off led by Ken Bruce has he done he has done well now.

There is a complicated thing that matters is better explain when I am around.

It's very hard to compare the results between the BBC Radio 2 and Greatest Hits because they're most over different periods of time but broadly speaking and BBC lost over a million is in quite a lot of return that with Ken and he's increased over the last quarter Radio 2 in the same slots a Vernon Kay still has more listeners, then that's lot for Greatest Hits but greatest hits has built up.

It's it's time in the area and is doing well and leave because of the way the measurement goes will continue to build up so radio to take the hit in the last quarter and they have that they've sorted for sale black.

They haven't got those people back, but they haven't lost so I'm not many people are we talking on? What do you mean person because 88% of the population in Lithuania which is actually done another thing I'm worried about that.

Then I want to 6.6 million listeners.

They've done this to required radio stations converting radio stations and grabbing Ken Bruce Bruce saying and he's got about double audience of Ken Bruce the commercial impact for power of becoming pretty much the number one and commercial station will be very profitable for them.

So they've done very well out of a bit more to go on that because 6 million for commercial radio is it normal to bleed a global to the second biggest station is heart now course it's how you want to look at the figures so in reach terms.

How many people listen heart is number one but the amount of time people spend with the radio station which is ready station to make money Greatest Hits is larger.

They both claim number one spots as you're looking fine if you're the program director of my radio station when radio comes out your job is the day before it's to find out how you are number is a bit like when people say I'm number one and you know best crime series the dog.

It's like you know we're number one in this town for people who are over 80 to say boom radio doing brilliantly so older audiences a massive the underserved and turns out if you actually care about them, then they come to you and so they had 662008 people say up 49.4% on last year and they also their hours are Incredibles they're having 11.7 hours more than radio 2 or local radio probably their local.

That's good is your times you reach buyer average hours get your total hours and then that's what you're selling to this to the advertising market and look at their total hours and it's bigger than Capital FM in London with them and they've done a really in put the money and experience into it and now it's just really nice people who doing well in the market, so couple of small bit so Virgin Radio overall and out 1.5 min and I remember a couple of years ago.

They were really excited because they finally cross the million Mark when Chris Evans said come over and I think so again.

I know some people really love to look at the Quarter on quarter Changes but she looking at long-term trends like that.

That's that's good news for them times radio and continually disappointed in how well x radio is doing compared with what it should be doing they've got their lowest number that they've ever.

But to be fair they got 498 the papers last year last year.

There was a lot of political turmoil going on so you're your reason to tune into that station would be more significant.

I think that they have done a lot of work to improve the lineup and to create more text you on the station because they got v&j now, and I'm actually shows always done really well, but I do think we can talk about social media social media and attracting new people and the awareness for their target audience is still not good because people who are listening to LBC on Radio 4 should be being targeted very heavily for advertising and suggesting to swap over and some of it is because of them.

They're on D2 which is it doesn't have a quite as much reach for DAB listeners as some of the other networks, but I just think.

And considering how strong the journalism is in The Newsroom the print news room and the skills that go on the radio team and then the completely separate podcast department no feels like there's just some joined up stuff great radio station is everyone talks about it and a bit soft but they do a really good job working really hard and the connection and people Arabic tribal with a newspapers if they're not a reader.

Do they think I actually maybe x radio wasn't for me but my suspicion is that it's more to do with the what's the torque TV is had all of the executor tension and all the exact push and actually I think is still in a very complicated position.

It's hard to do TV is radio on the radio product is arguably suffered a bit playing around with the line up, but also they spent so much on evening Talent the day was difficult and Sunday Times

Just be left to kind of do its own furrow and again.

Everyone's been saying not only is it good it's been getting better than finding its formats.

You know some of the people who haven't done radio before an hour broadcasters, but I wonder whether it's that fact of sort of being a little bit beyond love stepchild, and I wonder you know if I was rumoured.

There's a bit of a walk back in the back of ambitions for talk.tv weather actually that does open up a bit of scope for them to push x radio maybe lean back into audio lead for both of them because I think the space for both of them.

I don't think talk to you later or talk radio to go back to it is doing quite the same thing as LBC and it's certainly not doing the same thing as times are so I do wonder if it's just actually they haven't really been giving it a push because he can only do so much at once and you know you can't fault them on the scale of the ambition of what they were trying to do with short TV

Even if perhaps they are going to have to rethink that the challenge of media and it is we will love this idea of like if you build it they will come but the world doesn't work like that anymore.

Does it nearly half many people have come to a station that didn't exist 4 years ago.

They have had them on your point around TV stuff.

I do have some bad and dangerous and Wrong statistics it should not do but I don't know he's not here.

So that talk talk radio set TV's got more listeners, then then times but if you're looking across was talking to you been used to pretty much compared to each other so if you do use use the TV channel all so similar to put on the radio on the TV very very bad things by comparing the latest radio Corsa with the August Barb figures.

I'll tell you what you should not do because they calculated differently but let's go for it.

So in that case talk radio TV talk radio is beating GB news in the audio format has Neymar weigh more listeners, but GB news eating Talk TV in the TV formats and whatever you're home format was funny enough you're better at that then he were when you go and simulcast and the other thing so we can listen is about the state of the TV industry for freelancers after a year of a commission slow down producers directors and crew are all sorts of work and this week the film and TV charity open to survey to see the current state of work this week recently paid to meet one such freelancer and a Collins whose work with Bear Grylls SAS and Hunted the producer director and more his Anna always been busy.

I guess I'm normally away at least 10 months a year working solidly all year often I will finish the job on a Friday and start a new one on Monday and that's it.

No break at all really, but yeah this year.

It is a bit different this year is the worst year in TV history in TV production history barcoded of David was terrible with hardly any TV made for obvious reasons but this year.

It's almost as bad.

It's to do with massive like a commissioning most of the channels of the only commission 20% of this late.

This is so that means 80% of programs not been made the entire industry is made up of freelancers, so that means 80% of people are out of work and have been all year and that's a knock-on effect from several things postcode so during covid as I said no TV was made it all really a fraction.

I think it's 5% of television so the Year following covid we made so much to make up for the lack of content kind of shot herself in the foot because now the channels have so much stacked up on the shelves.

They don't need to spend money to see it making TV cos they've got shows that haven't gone out yet.

That tidying with the ad industry taking him massive dive in revenue.

They can't afford to advertise on TV like they were and also with the deciding to scrap programs for example not bringing back the X Factor what the X Factor boot in a huge audience so obviously the ad slots for that word prime advertises.

Just don't have the car said they're going to get the viewing figures on the programs that are going out at the moment to make it worthwhile advertising so yeah chicken and egg, what would you like to see happen? What do you think needs to happen for you know people that you and Industry I think it's really easy for example head of Channel 4 cats made a common earlier in the year telling freelancers to hold their nerve.

Well.

It's ok for him to hold it.

You can't hold your nerve if you're self-employed in there is no work.

Play no work for months and months and months lots of people haven't worked at all or at work sporadically since last December imagine not earning any money for 10 months nothing like how how do you say so, Ian saying hold your nerve followed by an announcement few weeks ago saying actually Channel 4 and not going to make any new programs until 2025.

I mean Channel 4 huge employer and and now they got nothing going out from personal perspective then, how are you feeling about the coming months? You know and what are you doing? Please try to get against not having any work coming.

I am one of the lucky ones.

I have been working a lot of the Year I've done three primetime shows this year.

It has been sporadic in terms of length of contract compared to other years but I mean I've worked.

I've basically working probably since February however the documentary.

Is murder dependant and until this unfortunately a new murder in the area that I'm covering? I'm not working.

So you know I haven't I haven't done anything for months now and but they maybe murderous afternoon and then I'm busy for the next few weeks show with the uncertainties.

I mean looking into the Year ahead to know come out to the end of the year.

You must have must be some concern.

Have you got any concern know I've got nothing this is sometimes.

I book a year ahead.

I've got nothing booked and the thing about the TV industry being freelance and I know you know you use freelancers in the past is your part of a crew you really feel like part of a team but when you're at home and there's no work coming any feel very alone.

I'm not to director groups.

So I know everybody is feeling same and

I have been working but 4 people have been working for months and months and months or just had sporadic days here and there is really lonely place.

I mean you know you lots world is never sure you know jobs are never sure thing but you get to a point in your career wear work does come in I mean I've had two or three years in a row where I haven't had to apply for a single job.

You can never fully relax you get to point in your career where you know that programs coming up.

You'll be honest you know you've got that next summer etc.

So to have nothing in the diary.

I know that no one is commissioning anything is yeah quite a frightening feeling I suppose they will turn around and say well.

You know we haven't got the money.

They have the money and I know the screen up for a few times this year were they had to publish their bonuses I think again which Channel 4 you haven't made any TV this year, what's the bonus for that money should

Back into the pool make make TV the very short sighted there thinking about this year.

How can I save money this year, but will not thinking is the knock-on effect it's going to have this year next year following you because people will switch off and terrestrial channels and then it will all be Amazon Netflix and and you know ITV will die turn off all died and their poisoning themselves at the moment the answer is just commission some programs that was speaking to Holly pit.

You can hear the full interview where am I going to get more detail about the anger in the freelance community and what needs to be addressed if you are a member of our patreon you find that an hour's of more insight over on the picture on patreon.com media pod after this hello Media podcast listeners, did you know there's a new episode?

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There is more change than ever before so maybe we need to change how we think about change maybe.

And you didn't see coming can change what possible for you to change what your business can be changed what you can make change the industry change the world changed so much that you change everything and when you want to know your change don't because more changes coming change and reinventing your business could be long now at accenture.com accenture let There Be change hello again and James are back with me for some stories in Brief and the daily mails owners have been revealing some of the secrets of a commercial success this was an ad upfront event for Mail metro Media in London what is saying hey if we lose third-party cookies which is sort of all the stuff Google users of Facebook to try and decide what adverts to show you you know you've been looking at DFS you go on the mail you see the sofa.

They're saying if there's go away.

It's fine and they started talking about her.

New Pokémon trailer your data points and user journeys and all of this what they really saying in cutaway loads of marketing spiel is we know so much about what people do on the website that we know enough to profile then without having to do the rest of it.

You know if someone goes on the sidebar and his lucky lingering of the pictures of the dresses and then Caesar link to you know by the look and collect that female fashion shopper.

They're basically going people spend enough time in our site that we can show good Abs and you don't really have to Paddock and we can I get as well.

I believe them.

They probably need to be a little bit careful about talking about all of this 3.1 trillion data points and endless tracking because they should read the news about because Daddy's room gets incredibly angry at Google and Facebook doing this and you know it's a bit you know fish in a barrel to get a guys what you really.

Is we can guess who you are when you look at the male which most people will be chill with the male is collecting 3.1 trillion data points his readers.

I could turn into a great Daily Mail story about the end of third-party cookies.

This is all a little bit of an overlap between Wars between Google and Facebook and general and also I think people at the moment the building their own dataset to say when we got there we can come and use it so the kind of the use of data that overlap between that and the competition authority saying actually we shouldn't be building up so that you can only do online advertising with one or two major suppliers and then things like ddpr because obviously international companies like Facebook will matter as as he is now a lot of those are based in the States and the the American regulations around.

Privacy and tracking are much smaller than they are in Europe gdpr or things in Canada that can span so different companies coming up with different approaches with dealing with this and technology changed over so apple little while ago had quite a blanket sort of thing of trying to stick when I put M I think where they said in the latest updates you can now she's know when you have and it says do you want to be do you want to be tracked or not and find that most people? Thank you.

I'd rather not but then apples business isn't really about sending the data in that way, so Google is changing how it's approaching the date because they are still selling advertising and so instead of having a reliance on tracking on a third-party website so that you was the as the customer get a lot of the data.

They will still be collected way, but you will as the consumer will be processing the choices on your on your device, so it will still be very personalise advertising.

It's just that the Advertiser

Don't have access to the data about you and the same way which means that they have the issue with it's called fingerprinting which is a bit for journalist is a bit like jigsaw identification but the text version so you actually accidentally you working out that oh, it's actually Matt who's looking at there is a bit better for user privacy.

It means your date is going to Les places.

I think one of the things we don't quite realise it's you visit a website.

It's not that website that sees your source of data.

It goes to 100 potentially red networks and bits of it could go to thousands of brands and that's for each click.

You don't we don't quite real and so that trimming in with Google is good, but the way they doing it is in a way that was slightly favour their own that they have to open it up in certain ways to already advantage apple did exactly the same thing.

Stop the track again.

Just as they launch their own advertising wing an apple is now I think either the 4th or the first biggest advertising company so it's always cynical really really care about security really care about your data and they do but also will have no benefits now and also in this instance.

They have started being an ad agency.

They are much more respect for the privacy news2day to the industry Norm but you know if there are very profitable business conversation this week with me California and they were very annoyed that there had two spaces start again with the email database because California has much stronger data protection than the rest of America was that yes, we had this here for quite a while.

We are more used to it.

Society and so we you know it's charity 50-years old Harry Evans set it up.

We do events the most recent was looking at the ethics and the difficulty of reporting is a very nice if you sign up and come to an event we can't add you to the mailing list a little things like that.

I'm going you know might you want an email once a month ago.

He is the next event try convincing the platform that they can transfer the emails to the email platform.

It's completely legitimate companies like digital companies.

They've got the scale to do like new rules because it stops new entrants be able to repay the space to yes and actually gdpr what like packer actually reaches the email communications regulations and cookie directives.

They tend to just create compliance barriers and so what you see is they make life.

BCA for big business, who is that actually not that averse to strengthen your changing them and you will also see as each new one comes the sort of wave of consultants that will terrify small business the laws usually actually have some relatively good carve-outs for little places, but you'll see that doesn't help because bigger companies that operate the services go cautious all the end up paying tens of thousands to people to be told they are complaining be scared them.

They don't help compliance barriers for the media quiz this week is entitled the the pitch as we all know any new formal storyline is Amelia combination of two or more existing Media properties so to put that to the test.

I'll give you an elevator pitch for a show that's been announced this week.

You just tell me what the show is buzzing with your name if you know the answer so annual say and James you will say James let's play the elevator pitch.

Number one it's Shaun of the Dead meat The Generation Game and an what is it because it's about Grandma's become zombies and starting affecting my grandchildren something infected elderly attack Gangs of teenagers in a satire on generation gap, so I mean you know it's did it delete the grandparents will emerge from their massive houses with the children have to defend themselves with avocado toast be a great TV for that.

It's like Nicky Campbell in Australia with some Irish Talk Show Host glamour.

That's going to be Graham Norton in some ways.

I don't know which is the weirdest thing ever cos it's like an American show with an Irish TV host based in the UK but going to Australia I need a to b e wheel of Fortune Australia for network 10 with host Road Norton because if that's the title that's going to take a whole half hour to understand.

Why he probably about 900 episodes over period of like 7 days, so yeah, so fly mova.

Spinning wheel 1 million times take out the cash.

Physio for tomorrow and bring it to you and to Normanhurst is a podcast with his daughter and an this is the poorly named for search recognition Real Talk with his daughter not very search for literary 900 of the podcast called realise that it's real is in cinema.

Reel it might be easier to pop up.

Do you have to have a explain so as a punny name does not work for an audio formats is my suggestion but I bet they're gonna do Real Talk with Jonathan Ross very quickly as well.

Just for the search.

probably one of the challenges sometimes with Talent lead podcasts and big stars off and like working with family members and I'm sure it is but is this an idea that suits him rather than suits the audience so where they trying to introduce the younger audience at this stage in podcasting you need an idea that stronger than 2 people talk about movies BBC 2 podcast they had the Show had the audience had the format that carries over from saying that Start From Scratch even with

Name those about his movies it just does seem a little bit like it's going to do 8 episodes of that I got to give up but I hope it goes better.

I will answer to the quiz points.

Do you get to keep up with what you're doing? I am on TV is my website or a text to come to take on or I am at Sparky and see on various social media platforms you can find in every week or so you can find the Flaming records of this.

I probably Davies Twitter at James RB UK

First booking when you use the code Media pod at the London podcast studio stop.com that's Media pod at London podcast Studios.com for 25% off and please tell your colleagues and we can continue to make sure if we have the great Bandicoot of the media industry listening, but let's keep having a look at the Apple podcast reviews from the show.

I'm not saying it on true or that those people really believe what they said if you really like the show perhaps you'd like to leave just go to Apple podcast and popcorn in I would love to read what you have to say my name is Matt Deegan the Producers Matt Hill with support from it was a reason audio production and I'll see you next week.

Business is constantly changing how are you staying ahead with a WS you can't H possibilities with generative AI customer wants with machine learning AWS can transform your business?

Change there is more change than ever before so maybe we need to change how we think about change.

Maybe that change you didn't see coming can change what possible for you to change what your business can be change what you can make change the industry change the world changed so much that you changed everything and when you want to reflect on all your change don't because more changes coming change your business could be let There Be change.