Read this: Mipcom, Doctors and a guide to sensitive broadcasting

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So whether you're new to exporting or experienced explore global growth for your business with three support from the UK government access information training events and expert advice to help you find new customers play Welcome to the media podcast I'm acting on today show it's mipcom Cannes and we're not like on the beach, but we're still here to run you down all the TV gossip and things you need to know the program miss information and the rush to publish have journalist fed and reporting of The Middle East crisis BBC cuts another continuing drama.

Is there anywhere left or right us to hone their craft story that everyone's talking about in Australian radio your IP that's all coming up on this edition of the media podcast in the news this week the competition to produce the BBC's new format destiny.

Nexus down to the final to that's going to broadcast magazine at 10 and 24 are in the running for the contract worth a chunky 20 million at the big pictures on Monday cartoon bells parted ways guardian of the 40 years of service advisor cartoon the paper refuse to run last week and this was in the aftermath of the initial attack on Israel subsequently published the cartoon on social media which single email from editor Katharine viner and that he was out Netflix that over 9 million subscribers a sign of the Crackdown on password sharing is starting to work that and without new confidence Netflix rating is an ad-free account will set you back £17.99 a month and you documentary following the wagatha.

Christie trial has got the mediaworld buzzing the latest Disney plus original features Coleen Rooney and to reveal the circumstances leading to Rooney's infamous Instagram post that broke the internet all the way to clean successfully defend yourself in one of the UK's highest profile defamation cases of recent years.

Now join me across the internet this week.

We welcome to media experts whose definition battles at always Loki first up.

It's Rebecca candy from broadcast magazine.

How's it going? I'm very good.

Thank you.

It's been mipcom this week, so I imagine your running things whilst the rest of the team of selling themselves in the South of France is that a fair assessment I think so almost yeah.

I've been we have pressed a this week.

So I've been basically making sure the magazine goes out so I drew the short straw but the conversations I am told that it has been quite raining in France so we can be quite pleased about last night.

I didn't get to go to can unfortunately what is nice is that you look like you because you've built a lovely sort of a pillow Fort for us to record The Show so thank you for that from your team.

What's been going on.

What's the big stories?

TV festival and it was quite depressing it was quite kind of you're quite downbeat.

I think the thing is a little bit more at beats things are feeling a little bit better because obviously international as well, but I think there are a lot of signs that companies are feeling the pinch like one of my colleagues were saying is that there about 11000 delegates? It's a massive event and there were lots of buyers and there was a very strong exhibitor turn out but there were fewer head to production companies in usually expect and sort of fewest of Entourage type people so the Producers the talent it cost a lot to go to can it cost a lot to get people that cost a lot to rent houses to feed them to come to do all the drinks and stuff.

I think you can kind of read that as a bit of a cost-saving because it is just a pricey activity.

So you know I think what is upbeat we are still seeing where there is a pinch a bit more workmanlike and what are the big formats that everyone's being totally out at the moment.

We did a wee hotpicks select.

Said she will get the distributors to send in the panda shows that they think the most interesting that they've got an offer before hand and we do a pic of them and my colleague Dunelm's in satellites.

I did a bit of analysis of a breakdown and one thing we noticed was within scripted contents of drama and comedy comedy was really well represented and it was also its comedies and it was comedy dramas in vivo just light-hearted dramas like it.

Just felt like everybody was looking for something a bit more positive a bit more cheerful the night shift.

It was a big success stories.

That's come out of this this year been the long shadow which is this ITV drama new pictures so by all three media about the Yorkshire Ripper case of Peter Sutcliffe murders and sort of the the victim of bottles of looking at their lives and how they got to be there and I've seen the first two episodes of it is brilliant.

It is in no way of light or Siri so I think it's really interesting that we've got that kind of big contrast that people went in.

Yes, we're going to be selling his comedy is everybody wants upbeat and actually something it's done really well.

Is this really hard hitting miserable drama like it's brilliant, but it's not perfect for the night and broadcaster and writer Iain Dale hire.

Hello good to be back before you do your LBC show later on today.

I'm as it's quite a High Wire act at the moment with all the news from the guards a strip.

How are you finding it cos I'm sure your callers have quite split views say that whenever you talk about Israel or Palestine you always get very interested to use on both sides and I usually at the beginning of each show when you talk about the subject.

Please make me for some calm and please recognise that there are other opinions other than your own but Frank at much will save my breath sometimes over the last 2 weeks and it's it's

Emotionally draining subject to cover because obviously with covered it every night at some times for the whole 3 hours but easy for at least while it's not too and it's the other night we were on our when the bomb fell on the hospital in Gaza and that was a real highwire act because I just sometimes you get a sixth sense that all is possibly not what it seems and I decided not to go to a bowling format in the first hour it happened to 10 minutes before we came on here.

Are we were talking about whether the chance in the Palestine free Palestine March from the river to the sea Palestine be free where that was inappropriate thing to do at the moment are we did have one or two people say why aren't you talking about the hospital attack and I had to sort of explain why all we know is that?

People have been killed.

We don't know how many to say up to 500 but we can't confirm that so, what do you do? You like the phone lines up just to allow people to vent their spleen on side of the other or do you hang on for a bit so we decided to hang on for a bit and do it at 9 and by that time the idea that said was nothing to do with us.

We did open the phone up and again people taking Barry and transpositions because there are people who will never believe a single word the Israeli government says just as there are people who will never believe you quite rightly a word that but I have to say I think when this is all over a lot of the media need to do some real soul-searching on how the cupboard this.

I can't believe my eyes when I saw the BBC Reporting Israel missile attack.

What are that? No one knew and you had Jeremy Bowen is a total respect for?

Well, I can't see how it can be anything else though as well Israeli missile.

This is not what you want from your impartial state broadcaster and mealtimes all so similar issues with all their headlines over those few hours as well.

Do you think is driven by what you referred to their early then breaking news moment and this idea of the public what's going on and say that from your call as well, but pushes broadcasters into into making these decisions are human Instinct if your journalist.

Do you want to be first with the news, but when is when it's a matter of life and death when it concerns war and peas it really do have to be very careful what you broadcasting and we we are subject to the same Ofcom rules anybody else though.

I am as a presenter.

I am paid if actually.

And I have Express and very Trenchard opinions during this but when you when you've got breaking news, you revert to breaking news mode.

You don't offer an opinion.

You just allow your listeners to know as far as you can tell what the facts are so we went twice to Israeli journalist in Jerusalem a report and what the idf was say whatever you're saying and that's all you can do we have no way of verifying ourselves what what was involved in this apart from the fact that clearly people have been killed by verification zki is harder and harder to do it's on at the same time of Argos in abilities people looking at looking imagery and online some crowdsourcing that is more positive end, but also very aware that within within Palestine is hardly any reporters.

They're there's not many people who can provide independent views you take the Palestinian

The Hamas view of an opposite is the game information if there is very difficult for broadcasters as well, isn't it? What it is particularly we don't have the resources that someone likes BBC do so we have to inevitably take out lead from them and from Israeli journalist who are on the ground and even by using the phrase Israeli journalist people who may be independent while they actually can be and some of the best journalists.

I mean I'm not a lot apologies for the Israeli government.

So you have to make your judgement very when we have a breaking news story whether it's a terror attack or whatever Twitter can be a very good source of information and I don't have to get free levels of permission before I say something I use my judgement as to what I can trust and what I can't trust that I've only I think I've only fallen foul of that one swear.

A fake Daily Mail account tweeted that I think that Daniel ratified covid also things that obviously doing and I read that out because it looks like a genuine Daily Mail account and better soon as I found out it wasn't that apologise to moved on so you can get caught out, but I think if you if you've got reputable sources.

I think you do to bring that to you audience and Rebecca the effects of people across the world and that includes journalist 17 killed so far in Gaza the staff at BBC World Service being threatened as well.

This has implications for everybody doesn't it? Yeah absolutely I mean it's on my talking about duty of care.

That is when people are actually in war zones.

That is turned up to 100.

It's it's it's an enormous and difficult thing for TV companies to be doing and trying to be doing that remote they and

The cost of having those sort of boots on the ground is is very difficult dilemma as you know.

I think this complex has been showcasing some of the best and the worst of of British news media.

You know there is this to publish? There are these kind of impulses that we have to work with them work out you know because we've got a Twitter and we've got people saying they won't even say something and yet.

We have had some slip ups with with of the BBC it with others but then also you know broadcasters saying they're getting really strong numbers for the news updates where they're putting it on YouTube that's getting really good for you because that is this hunger there.

Is this real desire to understand what I think the public are really aware.

That is a naughty and competition and even where they do have her in French we want information.

They want to find out what's going on.

I want to get to the bottom of it and I think there are places where he was doing a good job servicing that the cost of that is having keep on the ground and it's very difficult and how much of your job within your service to explain how you can a conscious that this is a super complex store.

A lot of your audience to try and some Up Where Do You Begin or is that not the role of the show it is partly but I'm a clear.

I'm not an expert.

I have no views.

I have a reasonable knowledge of the history of Israel and Palestine conflict, but I make very clear and I remember where the on the Saturday morning.

It will sort it when other people were killed by horse and he was you I would be covering it on the Monday and I thought very carefully about what how much should I express an opinion or how much should I do on the one hand and on the other hand and I thought we are an opinion station.

I can't hide the fact that I do have an opinion on this.

I am going to condemn Thomas I am going to defend the Israeli position, but if the israelis do things I disagree with I will also expressed criticism which I have done in the past, but it costs as soon as you make one.

Defend the israelis, I'm in the Wrath of Hades falls on on your head and I'll be quite honest the last 11 days now.

I think you're being probably my most uncomfortable in 13 years of doing this job because the the Twitter abuse the tax that come in and I see every text that comes into live on.

I've actually told you about switching it off so I don't see them because I think it's your natural Instinct is if someone makes an accusation against you that's totally unfounded on a text live on the show your natural Instincts to defend yourself.

That's not the case.

This is what I said and this is what I mean.

You've got to remember.

That's only one person.

They don't necessarily anyone else that night of the rocket falling on the hospital update on the train going home that she

Really emotional and I'm not somebody who has ever suffered from any sort of depression or mental health issues, but I did think to myself what this is affecting you and you got to be really careful about that because if it if it gets too overwhelming you're not going to be broadcast in that your best and we have to cover every night in in an hour and 40 minutes.

I'm going to be covering this letter that 2000 actors and celebrities are written basically Israel and defending everything that happens in Palestine now.

I know what's going to happen there because I'm going to have a go at these ridiculous.

Love is who haven't even the word.

I'm going to have a go at private all over there from 9 but I also know that over its history Private Eye has a history of.

You saying being very sceptical about Jews so I know that I'm heading for a program but I suspect by the end of it.

I'm not going to have enjoyed very much and yeah.

I don't enjoy it.

I can't I can't project that through the microphone because I want I didn't say sorry want the audience to enjoy your program at this one.

They've got to listen to it thinking about getting something else.

Do you think some of the media to chat and responses is about trying to chill discussion and sort of clothes off the discussion as well as people just putting forward daddy's because only effectively if you take the opposite view to me you.

I've had one person saying that I want a genocide against Palestine I want all Palestinians to be cool now.

I don't know what provoke somebody to think that that would even crossed my mind because I can assure you it does not I don't want innocent.

Today in same way that I don't want an Innocent israelis to die, but I have found myself having to explain that in war situations civilians, always kill.

It's just the way of war and however you express that it sounds careless.

I had a lady on the line the other day having a real go at me for using the word of the phrase can damage which I did caviar and before I use the photo.

I said I don't I hate this phrase, but I can't think of another one then there's always Collateral Damage in times of war it happened in the Falklands War the world war if you think that is so Lauren that you can't sanction any form of warfare that makes your pacifist and most people are not pacifist.

They think that if if you've been attacked you have a right to defend yourself while sticking with news for moving to print Media at the Barclays a Backwell sort of this is the former owners of the Telegraph Media group tables and off.

Value in the road company at a billion pounds 6s out of haven't done so bad with some of their subscription, but it's still 39 million have paid for it once and now they're looking to pay for it again.

Why the obsessed with the Royal title.

I should have very interesting and I write for the Telegraph so I haven't got any specific insight into this story.

I look I think that there's the the emotional attachment theory have for the Telegraph is quite strong and I'm sure there are lots of other examples for history where people have gone back and bought the company that they they previously for whatever reason then had to sell I think this is going to be very interesting at the height turns out.

I got no idea whether the Barclays will succeed doesn't seem.

Huge amount of interest from what I can gather Inn in buying the Telegraph very well and getting extra subscribers done the times on on that am I haven't got radio station to to attract subscribers and Telegraph I mean, it is whether you are Telegraph reader or not.

It's part of the newspaper phone into my son think about the newspaper that Telegraph would not exist and if it didn't exist someone would have to invent it from being a right-wing trophy and I see there's the GB news founders are interested in as well Murdoch is after The Spectator how much of this assets and about business.

It's about having a position in the political world.

I think there are lots of rich people in the world who like to have a foot inside of the political camp ice run like that publishing which Michael Ashcroft

Still is a major shareholder in but I'm a 100% shareholder now and he likes to be part of the political conversations.

He's only things like Conservatives home politics home bike back as a way of being involved in politics.

He is very very similar so I didn't that's a bad thing is you still have to make a business wash its face though, nobody like Rupert Murdoch call Michael Ashcroft going to want to continuously Paul money into companies that lose it and it has been profitable spectators done really well under Fraser Nelson z of the day doesn't surprise me at all that we know that would be interested in that but there's a part of me that would like to buy it because I think it the Spectators always been seen as quite an independent voice and no matter who was owned it matter whose by the editor.

It's only when we look at some of the money behind some of these beds it seems to be coming from the the Middle East doesn't it? Yeah, I think it's really interesting like that.

You're saying it profitable.

Is it a billion pound profitable like is it worth? I I I don't know I couldn't say but I think yeah.

It is really interesting that kind of I got this investment we've got this these kind of them finances based in Abu Dhabi wonderful kind of with a kind of football stadium type saying by your football team texting.

I feel like all who's taking the news to control the newspapers who knows it's a really interesting one to watch particularly casino the coordinates is ageing you know and there is this conversation about how are they going to appeal to a fresh audience and how they going to do that in the future and I think about the radio station.

I don't have already fish and chips with very good podcast have done really well.

So maybe they are going to be able to appeal to that you thought it maybe that's what the extra money from home.

Can I be prioritising but yeah, it will be interesting to see the brake to bits news really about 10 TV changes of the long-running so doctors has been axed by BBC due to what it called super inflation and Channel 4 had just announced the cancellation of Steph's packed lunch at 3 years after the programme first came on a lot of output on the suddenly stopping.

What's behind it and with doctors you know we think of these things has been quite low budget right soaps and certainly they are compared to say Game of Thrones all the crown of a really big the TV budgets for drama second up and up and up in the last few years because we've just been had this kind of the streamers come in and we've had this kind of this the arms race equality so we think everything has been quite low budget.

It still expensive to make a TV drama expensive to make a continuing drama.

That's always on an inflation has just made it more so

He's on a fixed budget, so they've just cancelled look we can't afford to keep doing this we both shows of daytime shows people kind of out watching TV and the daytime as much as I used to be arguing can't change we're not watching in the same.

I write like used to watch the stuff this stuff because it was on if you were at home, that's if you're at home.

You can put Netflix on you can put iPlayer on you can put on a 4 zone is also called Channel 4.

Hopefully you know you don't need to watch Elena in the same way, so I just don't think they're getting the audiences and I think where the real tragedy of this is for for doctors is this that has kind of people cut their teeth as the running for more than 20-years and it types of soups these dramas.

Are where people go to learn their trade with their right as directors with the producers and you know Edinburgh TV festival Sally Wainwright who wrote Happy Valley crediting her start getting pissed on Corrie you know there are.

Please, can I be a really really good and for that sort of thing for people to learn and keep doing and keep improving you know the 2018 report from direct UK found the doctors have the highest percentage of directors colour of any continuing drama.

You directing is an area.

Just me has been quite wiping quite male we haven't had that diversity.

It.

Is this incredible training ground and you know that that's a real shame that in Lost and similarly with you know packed lunch that's in Leeds and it was one of the best examples of TV channels trying to move out of London try to invest Elsewhere and they had to they have to give it off at the shop it down so I think that is you know you want that those kind of those jobs there so you can be training the local skills and telling you wanted to stay there otherwise that's me up jobs are going to leave the industry.

Are they going to be to London

Iain M Banks for the regions in this for Channel 4 particularly sex packed lunch was a big investment in their in their Leeds HQ doctors comes out from the BBC in the West Midlands is it desires meet financial reality? I'm not sure we know the real reason that has been cancelled it could be budgetary and are the 1 time I've been on it.

I couldn't believe the number of production staff that there was a run around the building it seems to be totally over staff and he's actually quite a good show contrast what else is on at the time and I think they've in audience terms.

I think they've actually done alright.

Hope that the gossip this afternoon is going to be one of the presenters on This Morning maybe that's the reason you couldn't really change it from Steph's packed lunch to anyone else really I mean if she left the program it.

So that I don't know I'm just promoting gossip really Matt well.

That's that's brilliant that was you take a break at more Media what's the best on BBC sounds newscast is the Unscripted chats behind the headlines really dig into it colleagues and I'll contact some pick up the phone faster than others on BBC sounds kind regards interrupting your gripping investigation.

Can you add free listing on Amazon music is included with your prime membership add shouldn't be the scariest thing about true Crime just had to amazon.co.uk / crime to.

Latest episodes without the ads in the UK we sell amazing products and services the whole world once in Devon or juices enjoyed on both sides of the Atlantic grow your business with support from the UK government access information events and expert advice to help you find new customers overseas visit great.gov.uk to get started.

Rebecca Smith some more stories Australia where the largest radiogroup krn has made a bid for the second largest SCA competitive maybe the UK but when I saw this story it was a bit like if global merged with power.

Can you imagine that would be like in central London at play The Chase on that on that one.

You're right there.

I went to Australia for 3 weeks and I broadcast my show very Gaudi pink radio studio.

Where is in a shopping centre? Where people could actually watch it was like 5 in the morning and I couldn't understand how this country but it's still really only has one phone in radio station why in Sydney at that point there were 11 of them is very competitive.

How to one City have 11 when London you've got one or two stations that do a bit of phone in but only one that does it the whole time it how can always been fascinated by the Australian Media see because it is so different to hear that is a r n a chance to fix best I can come and sort of swapping the good assets at over to them.

I thought they said that if it all goes through.

They were take scas podcasting.

How much is a thing called listener and magic with their podcasting thing these iHeartRadio to do there's into a new kind of joint venture and it's all the same if we gonna try and beat the big boys in America we have to really work together.

This is something that companies have to sort of work through that Avery the analogue background still makes the money but they're gonna come up with something that works in the digital future.

Yeah, I think exact.

I think that makes a lot of sense.

I know that something you guys have talked about on the show previously that kind of there was a lot of money in podcasting issue.

That was a bit of a boom and now it's sort of rebalancing that there is going to be money in there, but it's going to be can be is that most of realistic money etc.

I think kind of consolidating working together having his big platforms that you say that so that's a huge companies coming out of America with these offerings these kind of those original attach to radio stations as well, so I think it is it is going to be really really interesting to see what they do and yeah, that is again.

Is that kind of linear vs.

On Demand that we get in TV as well, write that because there is probably still a place for linear and it is making money, but you know people are also demanding with on-demand thing and it's gonna balance size 20 with everything about global players are really important part of global talk about on the radio stations and the Investment they're putting into it.

You've got your own podcasts on there.

How different do you see the two jobs of your your podcast output vs.

Your live output? It's very different in many ways I can do things on the podcast that I can't do on the radio show my two main podcast what I do with Jackie Smith fall over and select record for the many we started this in November 2017 and it's kind of people haven't listened to it.

It was basically we created Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart it is that kind of format for one from the right one from the left we have quite a lot of last podcast subtitle politics Media gossip and it is very gossipy and very snotty and filthy from time to time and people don't expect a the political will to be healthy but we have a moment I like I can't do that sort of thing on the radio show just wouldn't work and the interview podcast I do all tour that stand out of a different show.

And I can do long for me to me in a way that I mean I can do longer for 1-hour be seeing a way that I probably couldn't to another radio stations, but it's very rare that you do an hour long interview on the past.

I did with Neil Taylor to few months ago was 2 hours long never intended it to be 2 hours long, but he was just so brilliant, but what's the point of stopping if it's really interesting I've never had a single person complain about a podcast being too long when we first started for the many people in the no supposedly said are you should do a 2025 minutes because that's the average length of a suit colours.

Are you if people will listen to listen to the end in 6 years of doing it? I've never had anyone.

So can you please Shortlands we were done some the average length is probably 75 to 90 minutes, but we have done one for the two-and-a-half hours.

That all the time but it if there's a big newsweek you want to talk about the stuff.

That's in the news and during covid we made it twice a week and I've had so many people say to me and I took the words begin with you helped us through covid-19 new podcast dropped.

We need that we were going to have a laugh with my last year in covid-19 quiz podcast it's a bit late, but I remember 5 Live being back in the day the sort of 10:00 programme with Richard Bacon or earlier on and off-peak lover you felt you were part of a club with podcasts.

I think it's very much like that.

You have to press play twice and see the number one we subscribe to a show-off followers show me attitude again to press play and I think that that intention is is very important.

I like you a lot of radio is about resetting things people coming in and out a different times Rebecca that's exactly what I was going to say.

Something about podcast where people having invited you into their space to talk to you right rather than you know what you know when you put the radio on Amazon and it's being being that either as a pop a little bit of a kind of a I picked you guys out.

I want you guys to come and be in my kitchen what I'm doing something else or will driving or whatever and and there's something about that kind of yeah.

It's very intentions on the contents good.

I will want more of it.

You know I've had the same advice in people told me I used to be 25 minutes and I love Island podcast so I can pick you up, but I think so, it's much more I think of radio were I'll get stopped in the streets sometimes and people greet me like an old friend.

I've never met me before that because I'm in their ears every evening.

They see was the friend that they've never actually met and in podcast are different to radio.

I think the mistake there's so many people make is that they think they making a radio programme?

Not people forgive a bit rough and readiness that on the podcast and they are not being taught at they're being talked to like it was a very distinct difference and that there are too many radio programmes where you have the presenter almost pontificating and with a subliminal message well.

I'm a clever one here.

I'm in party mileage to you.

So you can be clever tea, and I don't like that and I think podcast very very different from to that the media quiz this week.

It's entitled as you know before you put the TV show me pom you should buy the domain name very important for your big new brand so we picked out a few shows that have yet to do that all you need to do is guess how much do main would currently cost to buy it, can I just tell you I've never heard of milk on so I was a greatest advantage here.

You don't.

Are you name a TV show and he's got a guess what how much you think the domain would cost you pick it up as you go.

There's three rounds closest wins let's play calm.com number one altitude TV has announced to reboot of the children's series The Wombles but how much would it cost to buy the Wombles.com your first bid me? I don't know how much would a main beam cost anyway, let's go for I'm going to I'm going to go to half a million.

It's a big.

It's a big round of the ground is The Wombles after your Ian The Wombles.com for that.

I'm going to under beers and save 499000 you get the point it was 7/2 hours and 7/2 hours in dollars to pick up the Wombles if you want.

If you want to help it out of GTV you can you can do it now right number to the BBC is teamed up with Japanese broadcaster Nippon TV to produce koso koso a game show that sees celebrity secret agents prank unsuspecting contestants to win a cash prize but how much is it to buy Ian 75004 500 quid I like carrots carrots thought you're putting into it.

You are closest.

It's $3,600 a bargain show would you do it meant I was vaguely approach to do celebrity dancing on ice ones let's put it this way the discussions didn't go beyond initial approach.

How much would it take to to get you onto the onto the ice couldn't stand it so that would be no amount of you have to commit to lifting lifting someone above your head and I thought there is no way that I'm going to be able to do that.

So there are one or two similar shows that I'm considered doing but slowly been offered Rebecca reality TV show that you would you would take in the jungle.

I'm a Celebrity but you know what I want I can see my friend.

Maybe I can I think Like You learning a new skill or something like that around the world looks fun.

There's wonder whether literally just leave you alone in the wilderness in Canada with a TV camera and just go and a spray and yeah baby maybe I do that.

Not being a celebrity then someone said to me you but most of the people in the jungle.

I want actually I've never heard of them so I can maybe celebrities on Celebrity Big Brother was a non Celebrity new comedy caught inside of Mash titles etc.

It was cancelled this week because of the ongoing conflict in the Middle East but how much wood Court tv.com cost that Rebecca for five grand playground Ian business you get to leave that for us to to make some money for the broadcast.

Thank you both before we go I can people keep up with what you're up to.

Turn that Monday to Thursday and I'm on social media and all sorts of forms at Iain Dale was a i n d a l y now.co.uk actually alright for broadcast magazine and I'm on xx Twitter if anyone still using it at Rebecca Cooney lovely.

Thank you both of us today remember to follow me depot cost to get new episodes every week invest in greatest and greatest features.

Do it now and you also get access to loads of bonus content to as a thank you hater on.com Media pod patreon.com manus McGuigan the produce was only paid with support from Matt Hill it was a repeat audio production and I'll see you next week.

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