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We get on today show there's a fire sale on the car to BBC Radio as Sony Music podcast is actively divested itself of the majority of its BBC shows we try and explain it all other publishers block the advance of a i r panel discuss how to stop web crawlers how to grab your IP all about putting the media quiz we play friend or foe.

That's all coming up in this edition in the news this week.

The writer's strike may have ended but not for Drew Barrymore where has staff of all rejected job offers to return for her shows.

Seasons of the cloud computing market to the competition Watchdog with concerns over Amazon and Microsoft domination of it currently stands at 80% of the UK cloud industry a big shout out all the critics and journalists Thursdays preview screening of the Reckoning BBC One's new drama on Jimmy Savile it's long gestation Hin City shoes that there's been to get the town right the premier is on Monday at 9 p.m.

And is happy birthday to commercial radio which is celebrating 50 years with a series of features that correlate are the special conference goldsmiths at the University of London 020 me from the London podcast studio SR3 veterans of the golden age of podcasting at first up.

It's TV indeed gold Wallace Ferrers Osman hello, how you doing TV podcast indy100.com podcast well, we'll talk about why that might be on the agenda very soon at the US writer strikes over anything in the UK

What I mean everything to me right now.

I'm not in a good way.

It's a good thing.

It's done that don't need a good deal with a great deal for them and I think it's good news all round if it's nuts it's taking so long to get to the point that they were negotiating at the beginning.

It's a bit like you feel something quite a lot.

I'm getting there somewhere was saying that actually if your Netflix it helps you save some money when you need to save some cash, what's an interesting next is a room at Netflix raises prices, so there's only chat about that happening which of the back of the number of price rises and you know crackdowns on password sharing just coming even more hostile to the customers maybe but either way the question is going to be are they going to produce less because I mean I can't imagine Netflix going to start cutting exact pay and and shareholders dividends, so I imagine that the additional cost of staffing is going to be neither less programme get made so let's people get employed so.

Is going to be interesting knock-on effect to it, but this indication model is is dead.

That's why all this conversation came up.

It is going to be a question now with how competitive are going to be in the UK of the back of the sun.

Are we going to come over more attractive place to to make the Big Body trauma from prison? What can we can we can expect an exciting night on the Southbank so no, I think they would do something that we have grown a lot over the last year 6 I joined the UK we're really proud of them with partnering with audible again and with Amazon music and wondering on the pay what you can scheme to make it more accessible.

We had like a sweet of winners last year and I'm excited I get no say in the judging.

So it doesn't happen right now.

I'm excited to see who's on the shortlist and Mexico City University and spiritual and Spencer

Speaking of Awards you're hosting a lot of British podcast Award winners at the end of the month at City University what's on their Rider play for you at the podcast Awards are you know that most probably get chance to speak to the chance first time the winners from last week to speak about how does podcast will made and what made them successful and that's on the 25th you can apply for tickets on the city university website tickets for free and use of network after lovely radio audio story to touch on to start with this isn't it was connected both to the podcast awards and also put his life which was an event last week and that was a story that haven't seen reported anyway, but everybody wants to talk to me about so if you can't talk about on your own forecast at where can you talk about it? This is the super indeed Sony Music that's the old something else is in the process.

Fasting a majority of its program contracts with the BBC so he bought something else 2 years ago and is reported to be the BBC's biggest external audio partner which is going to make some headache for a number of BBC networks as attempts to keep radio shows on the air towards Christmas so what we believe happened is Sony of the side of they don't want to make a lot of the country make the BBC will be having those back.

We reached out to Sony music to ask them about this and they didn't have anything to tell us we also reach out to the BBC Who again.

Didn't have to tell us though.

I thought it was interesting but nobody is denied this also I got a lot of independent companies having Fielding calls from staffy work on shows and a lot of those companies have a think about should I be apply.

These are they going to be up for grabs and Chloe your audio, UK obviously we don't exactly know what's happening.

Unusual is unusual people to hand back that shows I think it's becoming increasingly usual if I'm honest I think of something else in theory if I think something else is notable because if they have done what you think they've done.

They handed backhand massive sweet of shows all that wants to leave me see it might be around to the 18 shows about that sort of level yeah, yeah, you know what people have said I think it's all of the BBC pop network the network shows rather than the sweet network shows I mean it's a huge statement, but for me it's very illustrative.

What's been happening with the BBC over the past 4 years or two members have been in contact with does and they have either on a much smaller scale given shows back not gone for shows that has run out at the end of the contracts or they have.

Not gone for shows and obviously in the kinda in the kind of wider competitive market that hugely problematic because what you can infer from that is that the shows it's not even that making profit those budgets.

I'm not big enough for Indians to even go for them and I think the huge issue with that is the BBC is required as part of the chart to have some of the outfit go through a competitive process and if people can't afford to go through that process then they're not getting the best ideas.

They're not kind of supporting the indus and I think it's really sad.

It's something that we have talked to him about for a long long time.

It is coming home to roost little I think so yeah, I mean budget.

So obviously it's a lot of members a lot of the time.

It's we're saying we obviously don't people who make content for everyone.

It's not just the BBC but the BBC is a big client budgets in some cases have stayed the same for 4.

Is all reduced people can't afford to pay their staff properly and I think that's so kind of sad state of affairs and I think the it feels like they should be paying more and the BBC but I think they shoot themselves in the foot because if they're not investing in the creative economy, which is production company is then you know the BBC have got tough times coming here.

They won't be making sure that the audio industry is really robust and really profitable and if they're kind of standing in the way of that with a lot of their budgets, then.

I think that's really problematic.

You know we we hear that all ships Rise an awful.

Lot at the moment you want a bigger pie, but how do you get that figure pie if it's not being invested in used to be a commissioning editor BBC two years ago.

Will you but it's always rubbish? Will you mean to those poor super Indies

People are not necessarily ke patties if you're indeed very that's like something else.

You'll have one producer working across multiple of those shows there for you can be like that work, but it is tougher to make a profit if you're making a show that is a weekly hour-long show the money is in kind of the always on the shows and we hear that somebody has maybe keeping their feet shows that are we clear all the time but making my out of those weekly music shows is how the work but also you know.

I'm I'm away that's only maybe you're dropping some of the podcast and you know a couple of hours that you about doing pretty good numbers, but the difference between something else something else then and Sony now is that Sonya cleaning ways in the level of what they think success and and profit looks like but also the BBC top sports now.

They got loads of money coming in less people paint their licence fee.

They're facing similar inflationary increases.

As I always ask that between someone a rock and a hard place, but is also caught up and Chloe when I'm all about this and I do in the United soon-to-be emergency BBC Studios audio or whether I'll be making audio for commercial operators as well and Studios think it's still going through that I've gone with you, but there seem to be a kind of announcement about it, so was compared to telly audio is like a mess for one of the better word you've got it, but it's the you know something house some some people commissioning stuff of people they managed and it's like oh gosh.

I think that the the main thing for me is thinking about the audio economy in the UK and how do we make that more profitable as a whole and I do think.

The BBC has a role in that in terms of helping to raise those budgets as a whole and they will be feeding into their production houses in production companies that already but they also stand to benefit from that.

You know they're going to be doing a lot more distribution.

They want to be dominant on a on a global scale and that's not going to work if we don't kind of bring the whole of the UK or the industry up so for me.

I feel like there needs to be a kind of bigger picture around it all rather than like.

Why are you only paying £875 for a 2 hours so I mean with the best thing in the world.

I don't know if any of you would want to make that you can't even pay people for your TV and emerging indie.

Do you want to pick up some rainbow? We've done we've done some podcasts BBC sounds.

I I started an audio I work for wisebuddah, and then a lot of that went to something else so I kind of

Jenny come through and and that was from the days where independent production companies were able to make stuff for the BBC which when I started was still a bit of a anomaly as a TV indeed when we looked we have looked at pitching in to bury things including things at the BBC of done when you're looking at getting into the shows that he is you say 800 quid for like a 2-hour show you making virtually no margins on that the issue.

Is it just the inflationary pressures and pains after etc the actual opportunities to monetize it in different ways.

I.e.

You have to go into their Studios and make it out of the studio.

So you can get no drawdown studio you have no relationship with a talent.

Cos all the town design direct me to the BBC so there's nothing you can do much they are you can't read indicator to other countries.

It's not like podcast where you can own the Brand and then maybe two in the van or maybe you don't have any of that so literally is from where I've seen it from there.

May be other companies that sound smarter ways of doing it, but it just feels like a transactional relationship of going you know you are.

The gun for hire you do that you deliver it.

That's it and from the TV space the reason why TV indie market has worked.

If because we get secondary rights we get to do the formation of a country's we get to get drawdown on cam it's a non Studios etc and all those things means it's not just about the straight budget and margin of delivering that to our clock it's about all the axillary places you can build a business as well.

We struggle to understand why when you're not doing it at Max volume, you can build a business out the back of it as an indie and so we do it because our main visitors in TV and video and audio opportunity of meeting is really exciting and fits with our brand we want to get involved, but nothing would make me happier than doing a Pop Culture music show for and look like radio 106 music or radio to but I don't really know how I can make that work as a business and you know it needs to be a bit needs to be some sort of relationship in a we know that we can make a contender the BBC

Can we do it at the numbers and the long-term margins that they're offering some of it is a little bit old fashioned in the way that actually works and in the past.

I'd make stuff for the BBC we had like a good go for a couple of years that really trying to build up at some production and we knew what we had to do which is basically spending your bidding for things which we knew you wouldn't win at to befriend all of the commissioners in the study were then gradually scale-up what we do bring in some people that they know try and prove that we wouldn't ruin their networks and get some documentaries at which you make no money on with the gamble that you hope at some point that will then pay out in getting a weekly Strand and that's not me.

It's been a little bit facetious, but that's basically how you do.

Yeah, that's basically how you doing? I mean I I feel like I have to give her shout out to the BBC who I love dearly but have yeah there you know if she is.

Fortuitous for so many years they were the only person who can go to buy you're well.

Yes, but now obviously not yeah.

I'm always not sure if they've realised how much competition they're facing no new terms of trade with them at the moment and have been doing for quite some time so people be aware and that is a lot of that is conversations about the commercial world.

You know they've done things like they've started the in development fund in audio now which I think 250g of a year to kind of support new and emerging Indies but I think they just make it really difficult because as you say it's that process they expect a huge amount of experience for very low budgets in there so many caveats you know like I use Radio 1 example cos I know them best you cannot be as an indie for Radio 1 daytime programs which are the high budget programs.

So we constantly told her we don't have enough money the licence and order a kind of don't believe that because the money sits there, but I kind of external production houses don't have access that because the BBC decided they didn't you know want to let those daytime programs out for reasons but I just think they sort of go you know I'll come to the dinner party, but actually not going to make it that easy for you to eat anything like that.

It's frustrating because it feels like they're making the budget so small that the easiest way to do it will be to make it all in house, but I think there's another way that still allows in these for them and have a cup of tea this week and we'll talk about difference in radio broadcasting and their sort of corporate clients or just other Productions and they were saying that the podcast producer rate is much higher than the radio rate.

So they said it's a strange situation where the network BBC network produce.

At the mo, Jr and and the most senior people about the podcast end that seems quite strange.

Yes, that's that's an effective podcast Gold Rush if that moves and some people just off there's more money to be had in podcast different skillsets.

You know.

I think certainly is not the same as making a podcast producers who want to go off and make a podcast and actually we make a podcast they just make half an hour.

You know something that sounded like the Breakfast Show so I think there are different skill sets and I think that you know when we started the course at city one of things we heard from the podcast Industries it's quite hard to find multi-skilled podcast producers who can make the show and understand all of the other stuff out of launch stuff social media and all the other parts of you need to know and therefore because there is a bit of a market at the moment actually it's quite cost to hire a top podcast producer.

How to talk radio producer and after this hello it's Anne from Radio tech on radio techcon is the UK radio and audio Industries technical and Engineering event and it's happening on Monday the 27th of November at IET London Savoy place radio techcon is the place to be if you love all things audio radio podcasting technology engineering or you just want to know about the future of the media industry and where we all headed tickets and information are available at radio tech con.com and we hope to see you there.

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I mean obviously they are the BBC but as a brown they are really making waves and I think they see themselves as a real big player.

There's obviously like a few Massey players in the contents based in a 3-months, Altrincham

Upset at the moment and and now BBC Studios I have very much Risen to the top of that pile.

So this is really interesting you can come earlier about how to be getting to audio as well.

I think that they are really well placed to just be a really strong content production company and actually look at the market right now.

That's where it's cleaning.

It's like the production companies that focus on one thing Television or like audio etc, but actually the ones that are being successful are able to come and move into lots of different spaces and and grow where the market takes the moment and you know we just like that Netflix as well that market again place of 50-years feel like they're very well kind of developing primes to take advantage aware of the market goes next you know just a bit professional jealousy maybe but you know when you're looking at something like this to you because they inherited or Legacy shows from BBC in house.

They have that cash flow pipeline and and

That kind of really helped secure the ship very very early on so they can start thinking elsewhere.

You know there are challenges ABC Studios have you know the Top Gear de BARCO continues to Rumble on in that's a big hole in BBC's particularly international distribution portfolio and I know you know there's been a few challenges where there's not one as many shows and say musical spaces where there has been growing with our production company.

They are putting a lot out there and they're being very country that made some big has recently and this is one of them and it was curious about this.

Is is they taken acquisitions person Channel 4 have had some decent acquisition.gov for in Rick and Morty handmaidens tale was a very very big deal.

These are all shows that arguably have been one of the few defining things in the Channel 4 slate.

I don't exactly know how is rolls but if they can bring that in turn in understanding.

How well shows cell and travel, so he looks at their slate and goes with this is a great you know a great one to take to get out to the market across the world.

That's really really helpful information if you want to continue to scale a business because reality is the world that we're living in right now.

It's not about the domestic market anymore because of all the challenges we have with TV in the UK is actually about how we can take brands and and push him out to the rest of the world now the things that are indeed should have thought was there there's own I guess it from a kind of trade body point of view one of our biggest concerns is that the B&B come out and similes how they did it and telly kind of girl bring out.

I can't remember how many staff it is in the police like 80 star for something and see you.

No talk about something else, but you're effectively putting that down in the market and they've obviously been recruiting for a director of audio Studios like this is serious.

This is not no one's messing around with this.

When we offer something that we talk to them out and it's very much like I was nothing to worry about and it's kind of like how is that nothing to worry about which is obviously a kind of concern and something that we've kind of open flagged.

I'll be interested to see what comes say I think you know that they are kind of shorts by it's not gonna it's not a problem.

I don't see why it cannot be a problem.

If I'm honest.

I just don't but again.

I think you know they've got a real opportunity to both the industry and my hope is that they do that I think what would be a real shame as if they come out into this industry that a lot of different really talented independent production houses have built up over the past 20 or 30 years and you know go out and destroy a lot of their business by competing with them for audible contracts or I guess left a Spotify at the moment different things like that.

I think if

Generating your own IP and selling that and increasing UK exports and increasing the UK as a place that people want to come to you for really good audio books have got fantastic parrot in terms of fractions kills, then that's great, but I don't quite know if that will happen yet commercial lights in the last couple of years.

It takes two to take take on the world and become a big supermassive indeed production business within their Studios area where they making some 70 million a year writing a commercial audio business that within NPR podcast and content and that's clearly what the BBC are looking at and thinking well.

You know we have the values.

We have the people have to start we can do that as well.

I'm really important BBC Bitesize audio and television you like some point we're going to be in a situation where we looking at what is the future of the licence fee and you know how is the BBC funded going forward with the licence fee in its current form of everything we understand.

It's probably not going to continue to exist forever to all of these things about you know how can the BBC make more money internet to the Future of international law commercial shows sort of wag the dog on what ends up on domestic and on the surface of them.

I'm enjoying the idea of the tote bag like they're going to be like all version of the NPR tote bag by the BBC trying to basically make their audio model work based on sending some swag to go for the 16th of the month.

I think that we will just spoken about how challenging audio is like you know from a commercial point of view.

I think the fact is that they've obviously looked at it and see that there is a commercial.

Reason to do it on the TV side in the early about the Gold Rush of the podcast Sainsbury that was similar to the Gold Rush of the high the high-end drama industry that we had I don't have the same time all but certainly they no one is waiting but I would do people still looking for a really good quality podcast around 100% competition.

So what they would do is that they will take out kitchen cabinet and front row and already shows that like a really iconic to to the BBC audience then you look to see if they can make them work internationally I mean if you look at what happened with pop master honeypot must continue to be something.

It's really interesting case study for the BBC is BBC Studios have that I would.

They would have done what is now happened with that brand look at TV shows on and on TuneIn radio and none of that happened when it was in hospital BBC now.

I'll give you that's a missed opportunity for both for the BBC and for the audience.

They can do the same you know with the kitchen cabinet cook bacon with them.

You know it feels like there is an opportunity to either bring in these new people is actually the existing people making shows but not crazy.

I don't know the long answer that is gardeners' Question Time really big deal for a very very loyal audience and they will probably pay lots of money for all of the ancillary things you can have around it.

So that's what BBC Studios job is and they haven't I don't see a gap in the market at based around BBC audio brands, but what I do see is a lot of really engaged highly loyal audiences who listen to those those things that we never seen anything about.

Outside of what's on Radio 4 that you can automatically imagine.

There's loads to be done then.

They just never could have never been able to get commercial revenue from probably a good thing well.

Maybe what you need to do is pumps and his ideas into chat GPT because we're over in AI corner number of publishers have been blocking their content AI projects like BT and Google's bad as the bots begin to use real-time data the BBC published a Blog yesterday about their own blocked and if you see this so that just saying that the excited thinking about how they would use it, but they are concerned by the ethical issues legal and copyright challenges and significant risks around miss information and biased and is part of that CBT and their friends cannot spider the BBC's website and take all their content and shove it into into the database the right to do that me Chloe gosh.

I mean.

We actually had a audio train webinar yesterday with clear fluid on AI and the future of audio which is really interesting.

I think that we kind of just have to get on and use it doesn't kinds of opportunity with it the quote.

Sorry the quote that I pulled out which I'm sure you've all heard is that it's not a i that will take your job if someone who knows how to use it and obviously that's not necessarily relevant here, but I think that just perhaps it makes sense in this but just going we're not going to use it does not make sense because everyone that be there is if you're a big IP company lots of people finding out that their IP has been somehow subsumed into chat GPT and I don't think he knows exactly where it's got all of the data.

That's inside it and BBC rights to put a stop at the broadcasters and other platforms on.

Building your business on a subscription basis by giving people to subscribe digitally or subscribe to his paperwork to pay wall b b b b b gpca giving away some public service the BBC BBC2 to get rid of missing and disinformation that matter little podcast I think they need to be investing much much more heavily and I say this as a producer so you know but she was having foot here, but he's been very much much more heavily into AI you know he's such a massive platforms growing so quickly is there ability to use AI to understand? What their use as want to see like the iPlayer need to be doing that as a no point one and then you start.

Is going well if the BBC create a large language model like Google have like Microsoft and chatty BT have that could be a really valuable public service there is something in that that that I think that you know when you look at the public good of the internet light Wikipedia etc.

Be doing something really really interesting based on all the heritage Adare archive.

They have one of the things that are here like Christmas and around the BBC is that there's no of the different parts in joined up, you know we go back to pop Marston had the TV part of the BBC be talking to the Radio 4 on BBC that situation would never Risen when they lost that brandy went elsewhere.

I think that if they if they use this sort of model going well and that we got all these assets then I will sitting on my £50 on iPlayer wish I understand doesn't talk to each other anyway Strachan it all these incentives are there to collect somebody else to do it so we may as well, do it first and I do think that if they do it right.

There is a really good public service value in this but I think would be useful to combat this information will be useful to kind of

British culture and and can I help us understand where we're going next as well as the audience figure out? What's up? There? Should be listening to on watching a long history of broadcasting organisations and media companies see something that's wet before they realise it's not a tuna.

See you but didn't do that.

You know this is a great guy Casey is with the iPlayer you know that was one of the very first to understand that video was going to be a really really big thing that's why they best early into iPlayer on now.

That's been the whole thing that the BBC's based around it if they're able to do the same here where they can go with look chat is not necessary for us, but we are going to start putting this together in Tyrone large large language model just to see what it looks like that could be a more interesting story because it creates a public intervention in what is a very scary.

I I was on a research roundtable call the other day.

I don't know why I got invited as there's no silly talk about the audio end a lot of TV broadcasters around the world that were on it and

Being asked about their their views on a I'll have a using it in their in their organisations that think they're going to do and there was a real split there were some companies who are all in right now.

You doing loads of stuff that isn't really kind of talks about way ahead of you see the papers and there's the other half of similar size companies who like to experiment in a bit and we'll see and I think everyone record was a bit wow the other side or in a very different place to me and it seems to find the fastest changing bits of technology that I've seen I don't have last years one of the steps.

We had in the webinar was around how quickly people had kind of signed up and I can't remember was getting up to xx million or billion users and it was something like Instagram was 9 months to get to that tiktok chat CBT is 2 months and it's I just think it's moving so quickly and you just just have to get on it.

I think you have the worst thing is to go no or

Please go no, but actually be getting on it behind the scene around that is you know that feels like an analogy to what happened with rest of the doors open looking at platform the AI stuff is different to that person.

I think it has is going to be the one ok.

It is going to be the one of course I like about 6-months existing large language models like the BBC One's what have you got internally you know what is our own large language model so if you use Adobe Photoshop was quite good AI stuff that trained on their own licensed material.

I get your doing something similar and then that's what that's what I think that's one thing for the chat is interesting people signing up to it, but where it becomes for me more interesting is.

Woodside carsite pod whatever they doing the most office whatever they are you know Google by the kind of party that because Google Search is a product and then integrating into that.

I do think firefly what a day you're doing is one day more into spaces because you're actually got a user the understand how to use I've opened up Photoshop to do something and then a using AI to ask it to do something more.

That's what it comes really interesting chat tpt2 me feels like a shorthand for a I become the verb that we use talk about you about AI but really what we need to be seeing if people like the BBC can go what are Virgin Google which is what we talked about previously and now going w r vs.

Chelsea BT that has a value to the end-user and then we can kind of something interesting until a I can solve this problem.

I'm afraid all of you have to play the media quiz with this week is entitled friend or foe.

I'm going to give you two media Brands in the news this week.

You just tell me what are there currently friends.

And of course the reason why I'm buzzing with her name is if you know the answer for as you will say Chloe number one friends or foes the sun and the male, sorry Chloe friends.

Why are they friends best friends because they are joining together to print the newspapers at the same place.

They are inserted into the other newspapers, but yes, they are shutting down some operations and printing together to Spotify and audible while back now that sort of all the major publishers.

Allowed on Spotify into such a big way, is it means they'll bill for the whole new generation open our people have not listened to audiobook for to the table who will begin to see more gearbox content and data only really been interested in so let's talk about those people are Spotify will give them a huge amount of data.

So they can see exactly you customers after their books and also I help them throughout their offering better about it though.

We had been so slow I hear you know over the last few years.

There's no snow like all-you-can-eat audiobooks platform and then because they are very keen on making sure you pay for those audiobooks in Audible and you get your credit and what colour is much credit on this week's Spotify

Do you have to get 15 hours free as part of your deal and then what you get halfway through a book to you then stop up some more cash is an extra subscription because that will be the weather for the publishers, but it's interesting about it in the platform is the fact that this is broken the Monopoly what's the other people starting to curious about why children's the children's book audiobook market hasn't been broken, but I saw someone talk about this deal and this is great are shorter and and I do think there's a really interesting conversation about how that's going to work as you say is all that have it for me like once you get.

Podcast want to get into the Habit of watching daytime TV whatever it might be it becomes something that you would come back to if such a massive market kids books.

It doesn't seem to have really cut through and then it's like a the device called Tony box have done something really interesting stuff in this space as a hardware property but you are right, but they're all they're all hardware properties right that it's interesting that the audible and now so I haven't seen the kids be kids market.

Is is a big one for the kids are totally under like when you try and look for within I think someone in the best offers on Spotify at sort of it has Spotify kids up for a while and that didn't work and then you're obviously go through the Spotify screen, but it's not even got a kids section and that's for podcasts as well as audiobooks was the same apples the same and it's my mate.

You probably know more about a radio station with the kids and this week this week apple podcast.

Introduce the proper kids section is Apple podcast was taken this week this one if I want is a little bit more confused obviously the place to go to Frankie's live.com search podcasts available on all of your apps of choice but I think it's a very underexploited medium and eat some of that is driven by discoveries have been interesting to see what happens with more of your day books has been dormant for and final question friend or phone number 3 Greatest Hits radio and Jack FM bike Jack is now taking great if it's ready is name in in Matrimony powerboats the stations in Oxford as I said to Jack FM stations will be rebranded Hits radio and Greatest Hits radio next week.

I think after 17 years so friend or foe.

Because Jackson this is to exist so you know that one happy family, so they were friends, but I will ask AI to use a point in like subscribe to an audio book.

Thank you all for us and what is gold on the school while I am free as like everywhere else.

I won't be used with her anymore like yeah, but you can't find me you just think me and you we are just only had it a fashion documentary about black Culture influence on British fashion, which is looking really lovely and got some incredible names in it.

And to be honest, you know when we spoke about this book.

Just trying to survive now.

It's time for TV as it is all content so we are chatting to locks people and hopefully next time I'm here.

We would lots of great that looks great commission on the check myself that I wasn't on the BBC and had to put into a search engine something that thankfully no Google so we are Trade Association for production businesses and we provide business and gracefully met4cast audiobooks, please come and join as if you're a business that does say we have loads of great resources and support.

I am still sort of on Twitter although it feels like hostel gentleman's club when I go into it now, so I'll be on threads more soon and yet you can find me then drop me an email.

And voids in anywhere eh tiktok followers City journalism on Express thank you for your time today today at the London podcast Studios remember.

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