Read this: 25/08/2023 Radio 4 Feedback

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts, are we about to hear the rudest ever broadcast on Radio 4 Extra Strong language biased opinions and verify how it got past the BBC Paris at be amazing call Jonathan pie has already had its debut on BT signs, but it moves to Radio 4 next week.

I'll be talking to the shows creator comedian Tom Walker and the commissioning editor for comedy on Radio 4 also history it might be all over but your reviews on the BBC coverage of the women's World Cup are still landing in our inbox.

What's journalism commentator headed your is here to sieve through your comments and this week's box box explores the story of a lawyer known as Shiny Bob and a shocking scandal.

Rock the Scottish justice system in the early 90s for some of those young men that were really at the heart of some of the stories for me that outcome was absolutely tragic give them lost their lives in their early 20s, but he's the spoof political reporter who is rants on everything from just stop oil to the prime minister shoes millions of fans across YouTube and social media comedian and creator Tom Walker's new series called Jonathan pie starts on Radio 4 next week.

It's a big success on BBC signs with over a million plays it's a satirical phoning show with a journalist is my a BBC Radio Talk Show Host and it's open Season on topics for me too movement to the BBC itself.

It's about is near the knuckle.

Is it gets and it's one of the first commissions for Radio 4 commissioning editor for comedy Julia McKenzie I caught up with

Anton Walker who is aware that is quite a transition from viral videos to Radio 4 very keen as a listener over the years of Radio 4 comedy it for me.

I grew up stuff.

That's a lot of anions hancock's Half Hour and round the Horne and those things so I was really keen to get a Radio 4 comedy because you get them with these great.

You're listening to Jonathan pie standing for Jeff silver the last couple of nights as my last night tonight.

So I think Leah Radio 4 audience a lot of ready for again.

I'm going to know who many them well, but many of them when complementary comments from listeners on BBC signs, but it is incredibly near was actually just an introduction to a lender electrically of course allegedly but he was the first BBC chairman ever to sit on the selection panel for the director of news.

That means the person who selected the person who is now in charge of guaranteeing the BBC's political impartiality was a Tory Party donor a Tory Party well.

We did have to sell close to the knuckle because that's the sort of satire that that character does and it's done with intelligence and insight.

We've had some outstanding reviews and actually one of the remarkable things has been about the almost universal prayers for it on social media which trust me is very unusual for comedy people like nothing more than to tear down comedy.

I was really keen for the BBC to commission it because the best place to find satire about the BBC the BBC only they can kind of do it first episode that I lay into the BBC have plenty of my fan base who mistrust the BBC and don't like the BBC and see as mainstream media and you know when this was.

I was selling out to the BBC and I think it was really important in that first episode to set out my stool and say I am perfectly happy to bite the hand that feeds me because the BBC particularly in recent years is ripe Passat I have a head of Theresa May's communications difficult to remember those communications work and now he is on the board of the bracing yourself for a Radio 4 audience is never heard of Jonathan pie, and what they might think of this.

I would like this to land with possibly a new audience that haven't heard of Jonathan pie and the last thing I want to do is alienate them.

I want to welcome them in so whilst they might be a bit shocked and a bit like all that's a bit fruity.

That's a bit spicy.

I completely disagree with him on that.

Because then you wake me up at 8.

I think they will take to it, but I am mindful as I'm just going through it and so having to knock a few minutes off.

Just to get it to time that how will that land and to make a conscious decision to leave it.

I would say it would be the rudest comedy programme by distance that I've ever heard on Radio 4.

So are you going to be taking out loads of sea words? Are you going to be taking out references to Margaret Thatcher's Anatomy I mean the must be things that BBC Radio 4 has said you that just can't stay in if not.

Give me instructions editorially at the moment is just a question of my taste.

I'll soon find out whether I need to arrange it in further testing process stuff would go anyway.

Just because we can't fit it all in as you say it's about 28 minutes lot but no we didn't say to Tom these bits absolutely have to come out for this and

Awesome c words in and we will the audience beforehand show that I've commission certainly but do I get a certificate do you ever put this into the 6:30 slowed well just clarify the first one is a double barrel.

So that will start at 11 and then the second episode of the 11:30 and then going forward it will be every week at 11 p.m.

On Tuesday and by the way you can hear this 28-minute version is by listening live if you do listen on catch up, you will get it both barrels.

Would it have been 6:30? I think it would be a bit too scary but also Tom didn't really want that either.

I didn't feel comfortable with that some families listen to Radio 4 over there.

Infernus I've been very clear to make it for his digital audience and Sensibility with a kind of directions st.

Julien hoping that the digital audience that Tom has already built this new younger demographic often are going to be entitled to come to Radio 4.

It's more about people who are comfortable consuming content from digital platforms, so it's that audience I'm more interested in the people who are used to consuming comedy digital labour probably don't really come to the BBC on a regular basis.

Hi my name is Nick Howard from Tunbridge Wells has a fan of the Jonathan pie character commissioning this series has been a superb evolution.

There's some wonderful nuggets of absurd comedy which revealed really interesting arguments on contemporary issues.

It's great to see the BBC bringing this to a wider audience my name is Darrell and I'm calling from Suffolk I very much enjoyed called.

Why it's good to have some biting satire on the BBC I listen to the whole box set in a few days if there is to be a second series because it's at I might be better to release episodes weekly, so they could be recorded closer to broadcast in order to respond to current events.

Hi, I'm Ian MacRobert I can't remember when I stumbled on Jonathan pie, but after listening to the first episode im mediately downloaded the complete series extra strong language biased opinions and verify to boot how it got past the BBC power b and m.

Can I just pick up on the pointed that Daryl from Suffolk makes because he says that because it's satire at might be better to release episodes weekly, so they could be recorded closer to cost is that something you consider in the future and of course.

Are you considering a second series well, there are a couple of things.

I mean I can't write one of these episodes in a week so.

The whole process from blank page to sharing was 12-months 12 months and 10 half-hour episodes, I'm not a quick writer.

I guess most of the stuff that I do on YouTube and play this is what I would call disposable content.

It's here today.

It's gone tomorrow.

I want people to be able to listen to this in 1015 years time and for 85% of the culture references to still resonate.

I wanted it to be about topics rather than it being do you know if there will be a second series or should I be asking Juliet that show next year then after that.

I could look at it.

I'm certainly up for it.

I'm trying to approach Tom gently and I hope that after you have a nice rest and he's worked out his tour is he says that we can come back for another one so watch this space Tom Walker and Julia McKenzie thank you both very much and call Jonathan pie will be broadcast from Tuesday

29th of August on Radio 4 at 11 p.m.

And the uncut version is available on BBC sounds know why you listening to England against Spain in the women's world cup final can we go then this to double their advantage against it was by far the most listened to women's World Cup with 1.9 million place on BBC signs across the tournament England's Mary earp's now Highfield name saved penalty and was named the best goalkeeper of the tournament.

So what did you make of BBC's audio coverage? Well, I put your comments to award-winning sports reporter Heather Dewar who was the first ever woman sports reporter at BBC Scotland and his commentated on World Cups across the globe Richard young from Palace I'm emailing you at feedback to complain about.

Tater the England women's World Cup all the time it's excruciating and we have to rush and switch the radio sound off whenever she comes on it really puts us off listening or watching any England game, please, please please replace her with someone more.com with a nice resonant voice there.

She claims she's down she's been cancelled on the back by her players BBC radio coverage of the women's World Cup I just wondered what your initial thoughts where on the coverage.

I actually think that covered across the BBC has been pretty consistent.

It's been really well across multiple platforms and multiple stations mean, let's not forget the online content as well.

You know the BBC Sport website we have Radio 5 Live service local radio station.

As well we had podcast to which reflected the occasion on up-to-date basis in the likes of the football Daily podcast for me personally I guess I find the tone actually much improved lot of 2019.

I was working as a BBC reporter for BBC Scotland at the time so was actually actively involved that felt less football base the conversation around it was more related to the growth of the game and all how wonderful it was to see the likes of Scotland for example.

That is still Wonderful by the way if it happens again for a while, but the coverage this time around Tydfil much more considered in terms of talking about the football on the pitch the individual players previous match experience and also crucially the team for in that respect.

I think that the discussions between the likes of Vicki Sparks Karen Bardsley and gas for example.

Just felt much more grown up and a PACE with where we actually are you know in terms of the women's?

Very aware, we can still improve it was touched on but I think we we do have works do on the still is looking at performances with a more critical eye and not being afraid to call out the negatives.

We wouldn't do the men's game with you write in there.

We shouldn't do that in the women's game.

That's really interesting Heather we have had some criticism Susan Taylor for what was going on.

Do you think that's a fair criticism? I do actually think that's a fair.

I think it depends on the occasion.

You're talking about for instance if you're talking about the final as a report you or someone in the studio.

Obviously you've got all the build up to that.

You've got the half term.

Contact that you have to cover as well, if we just talking about you know breakfast for content across five live of course you're going to have those conversations around it.

I think there is a Desire for those when when you too really kind of set the scene where that goes over the top sometimes.

I think he's probably a really personal opinion can see why she's going with that and I think it is we moved to and professional set off we get used to talking about these kind of tournaments and we getting used to this kind of exposure.

I think that will naturally come no One criticism that we've had that we also gets men's tournament is the idea that simply been over hyped to Stevens from Devon basically.

I thought that the women's World Cup was over hyped my complaint was about the clip of hysterical that was frequently played the top of the Hour on Radio 4 to promote the BBC's coverage of male counterparts in order to create a feeling of excitement.

On the contrary it was embarrassing demeaning to women and unworthy of Radio 4 is that always something that's going to be an issue because there are going to be people who just don't want all this switch on others of course who want more and I think it has to be over but I don't think that we can really under play that when it comes to the Future competitions, but then again I can also understand if you're broadcasting on the scene and if you're and national station Wetherby dinner BBC One television B5 live you do also have to figure out the facts.

It's not all going to English listeners or English jewellers, actually people do get a little bit fed up with it.

I give you a lot of criticism from that when I was listening to 5 Live but I did hear some of that when I was listening to the radio in Scotland I've also heard an awful.

Lot of positivity about England playing in the final.

I think the women's game that was just an overall sense of empowerment and isn't this wonderful that we've got this growth and it's just

Exponential it was more I think across the board for people who follow the women's game about the general movement of it and not so much about England taking on at the just quickly one last a Cathy has commented on the term Man Mark it's Cathy Elliott I want to encourage the commentators and pundits working on the BBC women's football World Cup coverage to please stop using the term man marking which seems really inappropriate when marking would be much more suitable come on BBC now in cricket.

We've moved Batman 2 bosses should we change that to person mocking or just mocking? I'd love to hear what the majority of fat footballers who played top level football think about that and I'd love to actually have the younger generation feel about that as well, because they take it all for granted these days.

They watched maybe the 2019 women's World Cup they saw The Rise they don't really see the difference.

Listen to a female doing the commentary and they don't even flinch you and my daughter is a Scottish Born and Bred and they both supported England they don't even see the difference little boys and I wonder what they think you know moving forward is man marking the right terminology most women I know who are actively playing the game don't mind that at all.

Will it change moving forward? I don't know it would just have to be marking I suppose but to me that's maybe taking it a little bit you know too far, but that's my personal Heather Dewar thank you so much for sharing your opinions were well.

If you would like to share your thoughts on everything you've heard on BBC audio.

You can leave us a voice message at 33 54 standard charges from landlines and mobiles will apply and you can send us a WhatsApp voice note to the same number or you can meet us at BBC

Feedback no it was the Scandal which shook the Scottish legal establishment and it on the folded in Edinburgh throughout the early 90s less than a decade after laws on gay sex have been liberalise.

It was also a time when many people still believed it better to keep their sexuality and socialise around it hidden rumours circulated through Edinburgh's legal World magic circle of gay lawyers and judges were making prosecutions against homosexual criminals disappear the story of vivid picture of elite life and Edinburgh at the time and the relationship between journalists and lawyers, but it's hard is Robert Henderson a QC who is known as Shiny Bob he was accused of encouraging the conspiracy to hide paedophile activity including the abuse of his own daughter by himself and others will in a moment will be hearing from the writer and producer of Shiny Bob Myles bonnar, but first we invited some experts.

Into the box box to give it some cross-examination Andrew Tickell is senior lecturer at Glasgow Caledonian University and Karen Goodwin is an investigative journalist from China Bob's Catch Me If You Can Dance even extended to the police Roger or while drinking a pint in his local found a letter tucked behind the bar with no name on it.

I'm actually scrolled in fountain pen ink inside were tickets to the Open Championship from Shiny Bob really interesting stories and shiny greasy barbers Shiney cos he's charismatic silvertongue to advocate but he's on the subtitle The Devil's Advocate so it's a story about him and his nefarious activities in the circles and removed as a senior lawyer by day and by night.

Obviously how much darker sort of absolutely in its setting as well as perfect for setting up that kind of narrative right between the

Is of the new town in the as you see absolute height of respectability and the service so cold nefarious work or rent boys and sex workers.

It's a story about journalism and what was going on for journalism at the time and you some really great slave testimony about what journalism was like you know people getting tip-offs Inn pub story about gender.

Isn't it? Because of the sensible for journalistic world that described and the jingling Geordie pub in the flesh Market close in the world the journalist or hitting the hard stuff at noon before 4.

That's one version of this was painted in This podcast actually quite a glamorous sympathetic way for the golden years and then at the same time the heavy drinking hard drinking lawyers really bad interesting can a combination of Nostalgia for the Press side of this very masculine the hard drinking it was a moral panic going on here.

There's a persecution of of men for being gay and

Discrimination and it's very heart you know when was held to account and what I thought was interesting was nobody who was interviewed had done anything wrong.

I would do anything differently so they didn't feel that they done anything that they wouldn't do now the journalists didn't feel that they would change the reporting for some of those young men that were really at the heart of some of the stories for me.

It was absolutely tragic in two of them lost their lives in their early 20s yeah, and you don't with you on that one is the operation planet episode I think which is the one that really Focuses on a police investigate these young man children we describe them as buy some definitions and certainly under the age of consent as applied at the time who were effectively being caught used for sexual services by the number of older man including man of the law in Edinburgh it's it's exploitation and abuse and how these boys one person who talks to them.

What happened that you wanted to put it on beverlin about the idea prosecution and where the prosecution helps you out about the people who are paying for sexual services been prosecuted.

He didn't feel the police after these men and wanted unpunished actually had their interests at heart at all.

Well here quite sympathetic accounts from the police.

I really wanted to help these young men that certainly when we do here for the man that you mention is not his memory of things he feels that there was no respect and an actually they were seen as dirty and you have to wonder what sport was when the prosecutions fell down because of course at the heart of the story is the fact that these high-profile attempt prosecutions collapse no support think about the 90s at all boys proper was how I think one of the lawyers described above was quite striking for me to Genesis listening to run the car talking from Scotland on Sunday about the point at which she was erased.

It was interesting to listen.

This context and think about how that story fitted in with Scottish Society and how different that might be now how editors would would respond to that type of thing how social media would have role and I think I've been just absolutely unrecognisable arrested today.

Well.

I mean I think there's lots of threats to press freedom.

I suppose still thinking different and certainly I don't think that you're editor would meet you coming out of the cells and push you into a press conference.

This is not a historic that has recently as a couple of years ago one of the man at the heart of a John watt QC was prosecuted for sex slave using one of the key characters and their Susie Henderson the daughter of Shiny Bob himself with the connivance of snow coverage in the modern Scottish Media got almost no coverage when he was on the still incredible silence about childhood sex abuse and

The Story In This podcast really gave the victims of the attitudes towards sexuality has evolved very very dramatically but we've also seen in the legal world and elsewhere the introduction of a large-scale to these once very male-dominated professions is hard to even think about modern Scottish legal practise by looking at the world and with shiny bald the series was written produced by Myles bonnar, and Kevin Anderson from BBC Scotland I ask what he made of the box box colours are well-regarded journalist in Andrews just I'm not really in the commentators for them to have liked it absolutely happy with it was very sensitive story to uncover.

I wonder how much new material you think you are able to find and if the people who spoke to a more open and talking to you now, then they would have been I don't know even a few years ago.

There is definitely a benefit from us doing this 30 + years on from people who.

Never speak very candid my lord.

Hope dinner perfect example.

I dreamt of having him comment on something like that a year or so after the event but when you've got records after then I do think we had a bit of a benefit with people feeling like there was the time to talk and Times of new things.

I mean we had the help of our journalist in Edinburgh coachella.

He had his police files that were really keen to can I get a hold of in in the Kennedy detail that was in those have never been made fully public before you know when you're in the midst of an investigation as the stuff you dream office and you're getting to see what all the the witness statement said you know who was involved the police that were taking down all these interview notes at the time.

We had a wealth of that so I think you know the benefit of time help to get people in the record and also helped us bring your things like your documents are confidential that then bringing them.

Play all these years later we could bring new elements to the story the Andrew and Karen picked up on the relationship between journalists and lawyers.

I thought that the podcast also painted vivid picture of life in Edinburgh at the time.

Is that what you were going absolutely wanted it to feel like I need Rankin novel so we spend a lot of time on what was like being in the bars at the time.

You know how the Scotsman building had these three rival newspapers with all piling into the local pub that's on this kind of really mediaeval step in Edinburgh just wanted to cannot really catch up.

I wonder how this interaction has been this is obviously a story that's very well known in Scotland but BBC signs may have given it to a wider audience.

Have you any evidence of the radar UK is obviously a bigger audience for this and I think you'll sounds putting us in a prominent place and they know the Canary days of release will be helped with that but I think what was really.

Driver was uk-wide publications picking it up and writing about it, but interestingly that the second biggest audience is Australia and we have absolutely no idea in over there is quite a bit of coverage and public broadcaster in New Zealand but it's Australia that seems to be in the the second biggest audience so I think it's been great for us that what could be seen as a really Scottish story has gone much further afield Willow 6 episodes of Shiny Bob are available on BBC sounds.

This is the last feedback in series with back in October so do send us your comments until then.

Thank you very much for listening and for giving us your feedback.

I'm Andrea catherwood the producer is Jill Davies and feedback is a whistledown Scotland production for BBC Radio 4 what in the world is the podcast exploring the stories from the issues that you need to know.

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