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Hello welcome to the special bonus edition of Amelia podcast I'm at digging and it's Ken Bruce again, please TV festival special for you.

Lot they're coming soon because this episode is a deep dive into the radio figures released on Thursday and particularly showing what happens.

It's Radio 2 lost the High Street biggest show to Commercial rival Greatest Hits radio who's won audience who's lost there's a let's find out in this special edition of the media podcast and 20-minutes someone who enjoys radiator almost as much as I do.

It's Adam Bowie day job at the BBC on his own on his own.

Hi mate.

Thanks very much for having me today is definitely.

Ken Bruce this is the first first time that will get to see some audience figures since he's joined Greatest Hits radio.

Yeah, it's it's like the old because it is a 6-month rolling figure and it's kind of his partly in this data and more on that in a bit first of all I caught up with the group programme director of Hits radio network to tell us all about the figures Christine yeah.

I mean we are delighted today because obviously we've seen significant growth.

We've got a new headline number for Greatest Hits all-time high and it looks like certainly the move has really well from from the origin of you because if it looks like a lot a lot of this is a full of Canna Cross which is Greatest Hits radio up to 5.9 million and 10 till 1 show at about 3 million.

Yeah, that's that's it.

So I mean I think I think for our eyes obviously as I said highest ever reach.

I think the growth.

Has been phenomenal really 620000 letters in the last 13 weeks is you know what I think we've added + 2 million since the same period last year.

So you know the kg numbers.

Obviously that is that's just fabulous to see big job in in this thing as well in terms of Kensal yeah.

I mean I was obviously one of them one of the first thing is we looked out today and you're ok and has added.

It looks like us to over 800000 letters in a single quarter which is up 37% quarter quarter in terms of in terms of the numbers and PopMaster is as you can imagine the biggest the biggest piece of the day, so that's that's being the appointment.

We thought it would be for the audience over 2 million letters tuning in each week between 10:30 and 11 which is the price of some numbers on that up 757000 and the market share for that section of the show loan.

Just a doubles from 3.7 to 7 so so you're very very strong.

Certainly from the numbers point of view on can't you probably it's not the end of that growth either.

It's like a strange quark of radio and helping how radio stations report their fingers so Greatest Hits radio report their figures in heart is a half yearly which means it wraps together this quarter and last courses data and some of the Andy Serkis some of the smaller parts of your network have had can have whole year figures so it takes a little while for it to follow through doesn't it to catch up yet to catch up.

I mean that does the interesting thing you know on light pure lead national station is obviously made up of lots of local transmitters and least ESA some of them as you say around 12 month rolling data.

So yeah, so I think what we see is dad brought continuing Abbott hold over the next two to three surveys because for some stations actually we've only got 3 months out of 12 which.

Got pain in my numbers so yeah the something there is more to come when you have a look at the date release a Radio 2 where can use to be that slots down about 1.3 - 800 recorded as you at the moment, but that difference probably suggests the direction of travel when all of that can listening is is added on a little bit later over next quarter or so yeah, it does it does it does look like that and I mean I think we we knew from day one that can has got really loyal fans that I've listened to her for a long time.

Love what he does TuneIn specifically for for him and put master every morning and it doesn't look like you a rare moment actually that could you don't see often you know where audience actually just goes you know they follow a presenter from one station to the other you know like that.

It's is a very rare occurrence not I probably only seen that happened one smart.

When Kylie jackie-o moved from today to kiss in Sydney and pretty much this year's on the the audience switch between the two stations, so it's very nice going to be interesting to see what happens.

So what was on? What was in your your predictions has this hit your predictions for when when you thought about plane over to is hard, isn't it? Because we don't we can look at his are streaming data and social engagement numbers and obviously they have massively increased.

I'm sure you're aware and yeah.

We did some rough calculations based on what I would look like and certainly that number was significantly higher than what rate are posting in quarter.

So but I think everybody is the light it with with the excess off of cancer and I'm at the station actually as well, because I think what we seen it is.

Clearly booster numbers for the station that success has been shared across the schedule Simon Simon's done really well at drivetime Jackie brambles has gone over a billion in the evening and explain Rossi Marquez you're all the shows have done really well and even more can a whole radio station from him? What's happening with that? So yeah, obviously be launched an initiative that was premium subscription service and it had free so obviously done by lots of lots of other platforms outside of radio we started some trials at the start of the year and that's going really well for the greatest hits of the Greatest Hits this is certainly the most successful station in portfolio video European stations and I think I think that's because we are pulling in audience from the BBC clearly.

That's are are are not always as happy to sit through commercial.

Maybe sisters they are too true commercial radio listeners, so it's a great uptake in subscriptions can started and on the Premium service at the moment is the main station without the ads you can you can listen to you know an 80s channel saving meals got an album channel and whereabouts of large, Ken Bruce's secret 60s.

Cheers.

Selfishly celebrating the music music from a dab or really play a huge amount because Greatest Hits music 70s 80s 90s so this is a chance to love from The Beatles to the Stones etc to tune in here can who loves that music as well playing some of the songs that you know he was he was brought up on a little bit in your portfolio as all the talks on on ghr at the moment, but good results for Hits radio as well so hits radio station up to 1.8 million days.

What's up about 500000 and the Breakfast Show with fleur games and metals are doing well up from 430 to 550 over the Year that's that's good numbers as well.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think I think a few years ago the strategy with hits.

Obviously was trying to expand into areas on using DAB another other platforms that we we have audience with the current makes of heritage stations.

So you know I would have a realistic.

So that was that was the reason hits was was created and in the first place and I think that's obviously been part of that success story around because he know you as you say you are seems now that there was some acceleration there so 1.8 million.

You know breakfast had a great one has he said he's obviously been on Strictly profiles been been on the up and she's taking over from ride on this year's main presenter on it takes two so

She's an amazing a bastard for the brand so so yeah, so the guys of the world around 33% of breakfast and we've also seen in the evening switches you shall we put on a January how to get 30% to his audience between 7 and 10 we pay as well, so really pleased really delighted with her.

It's performance as well Talent sweeping you plan to do for any of stations you tell me always always another but I think we'll just take a moment and and double down and obviously as as you said earlier.

I think you don't make sure that we can see the growth for Greatest Hits cos it seems to be working well over the next excuse surveys.

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So Adam Gary sings pretty happy with the first 10 results Disney yeah, and I think rightly so I mean they've taken taken a risk.

I guess in terms of I'm sure they check and I think that's paying off of them is not surprising that you know they were already seeing quarter on quarter growth.

Obviously they've been rebranding stay ago, so there's kind of you know we're not always seeing like-for-like because you know if you change some am stations in Scotland to Colin Colin greatest hits and your numbers will go up when you have an audience there, but I don't think you know you can't take anything away from the bed and excellent Corsa looking at the numbers.

It's late last quarter which was sort of a prequel effect of publicity about it for you.

Lots of people sampling greatest hits for the first time and then this quarter is sort of notionally a 4K

As I said to Gary the vagaries of power Radon measures were probably still not getting the full picture with no stations for those who care stations at 10 to be measured 3-months 6-months or even small ones 12-month period and what that really means is we getting a January to June average number here, but Ken was obviously only in place from April to June so we've got you know 3 months worth of data where before he was on so you would expect with all things being equal that next time round with another can jump with Radio 2 can't wait to radio to measure on a quarterly basis, so all of the figures from the last 3 months and that sort of drop weekends time stop about 1.3 million and maybe only in addition on greatest hits of 800000.

There's probably still mortar reallocate on them.

They probably are advert.

One thing to point out of course isn't not even one will necessarily be able to get Greatest Hits all that is available digitally depending where you live.

You know exactly what you get so I would that million may not all have gone.

It's not as simple as that we see this repeatedly in the past when big-name presenters move from one station to another yes, it might be an audience dip but it doesn't mean they go off to the new place.

You know when programming changes happen as a massive recycling thing going on.

It's kind of like all I don't like the new guy or Girl or I want to know the person.

I'm not sure where they are and oh actually this other station sounds quite good, so that there's probably bit of that going on as well.

I mean if your Radio 2 they've seen list of top-level number drop a million and that's that freak you out.

Isn't it? If you're the boss have been ready to emailed me and said and I'm sure he made quite a few people.

Just saying that is only a 7%

Having a massive a massive radio station in million does seem a big number but 7% on the high on the fluctuations that has happened before over the past few years.

Yeah, we see I mean.

I think we've seen as a listening has changed.

We seen some quite substantial.

Jumps you 7% once upon a time.

I think you would have looked very aghast at that kind of thing and it said sometimes used to send up with dry eyes and he loves it, but you can go yeah.

We know that's going to normalise a little bit out next time round.

I think that's the nature of the changes in the patterns of what we listening to and how we listening and things like you know the emergence of on-demand streaming services podcast does mean that the numbers think about around a little bit more.

So you know it's 7% a million people is a big number but you know it's a million people from.

UK's and ugly Europe's biggest radio station and it's still buy a long way the biggest radio station say you've kind of got to take that into account as well.

I can't feel too sad for radiators drop.

They are still a colossal as you said so the biggest radio station.

I think I think it's probably still the biggest Breakfast Show in the country as well.

Yes, she is yeah, so what's the point to Radio 2 very very happy about our probably still with with more growth to come what else did you see from from Bowers numbers and Millionaire play you were there an absolute.

How are the brands looking really? I think magic seen some slips there Absolute Radio that I used to work hasn't done too badly at all.

The networks up at a reasonable amount.

Interesting one I've been person interested in this is weeks in Kisstory overtake kiss for the first time so we seen a sub-brand you search the main brand for the first time about 58000 listener lead now for Kisstory over kiss which I find quite interesting to reach an hour's isn't it? Kiss kiss yeah, absolutely now.

I think that's probably you know flies to you know but having access to whatever kind of internal research that they have that's probably as much as anything a demographic and radio listening kind of reasoning so younger listeners.

Maybe aren't listening as much and kisses.

Obviously aimed at younger audiences, Kisstory you're listening to the music from you know 10:15 2025 years ago whatever and you're an older person who's more used to listening to Radio and so you're still loves listening to the radio.

Some of the songs from your youth effectively as we've seen in the past with and we continue to see with some of the decade stations that others others like absolute and hearts do I suspect that's why but it's been heading towards this now for a few quarters and we've now actually seen it happened 20 years ago in that audience off the probably listening to Kisstory listening to the same song as they listen to me when it was a Kiss FM back in the 90s and noughties yeah absolutely and you know we know that the younger and it's really hard you know there's a lot of ways now you discover music and you know some would have you believe that it's only on tiktok, but there anyone is discovering music or maybe Spotify at the idea that people are still listen to radio even though we know that large numbers of people listen to radio thing is 88% of population in this Corsa and indeed large numbers of young people still listen to the radio, but maybe they're not listening to quite as much.

That's what's happened and I have been off capital darts and heart dance both of those now over a million listeners each a little bit of of them kind of nibbling away kiss as well.

It should have lost its you know raison.

D'etre that it may be helpful.

Yeah.

I think I mean let's face it it's now easier than ever it seems to the big brands to pop up new services fairly quickly and fairly easily and fairly inexpensive Lee you know I noticed capital Backup onto radio think she'll actually went anywhere but it's been a few years since it lasts had some radio numbers and you know we've seen I think in the interview.

Just played The Bower sort of premium services announced the Forgotten 80s service so some of these are you know paid for things some of these are just they can go.

DAB Multiplex somewhere or go onto the dial on your the radio apps that you know that likes of our and global have and you can you can spend these out and there's definitely a case that once upon a time.

You know the economics of starting a new station for a modest number of people that small number of people doing you know doing ok Nicholas the advertising get sold across the entire network but once I know you wouldn't necessarily work for that not if you have FM even just you know DAB what's to fill but now they do particularly in a particularly in a streaming world and you know I think a lot of people are going off to a lot of these places in getting precisely the music that they want you know I want a particular flavour of dance music from a particular period that's important to me or that I particularly love and I'll go and do that and

Going to sniff around Anita the edges of a big sort of Legacy brand like kiss but obviously a lot of time spent on the main KISS FM UK does it make those companies think actually wear our budget goes where effort goes should maybe change additionally spin-off stations only have the same effort put into them as the main service or does it say that she said music intensive services are fine and they didn't need much more investment really interesting question isn't it? And you know I often wonder do you take to switch to switch round FM and dab? You know kiss still has the well it is losing the one in East Anglia it still has some FM's and you know would would it be better idea putting an servicing the older listeners over on 2fm, and and switching the younger one on to?

Dad one as well.

I don't know but they would definitely be all the things.

I'm thinking about you know at the point.

You know I think the only real difference is where and this is what I need now is whether there's a real difference in the rates that are able to charge to advertisers so even though Kisstory might be bigger than kiss.

It's possible given the demographic that kiss reach years and the waveband.

It's on but it's still earns more money and I think the end of day visa commercial operations.

That's what it boils down to what goes where it is.

Sort of any any real guaranteed solution to what was interesting was when absolute have lost all of their analogue frequencies and when did phone and it hasn't really did that station and putting Greatest Hits Radio 1 privative absolute Radio FM frequency London there's definitely be benefited ghr.

So there is sort of.

there isn't a one-size-fits-all is there to to wear things should be broadcast no definitely not I mean I think you're absolute one that was interesting because of the sort of music and is that appropriate band width is that an appropriate band in 2020 to 2023 for music so that's probably an easy a question question to call but it does feel the power is willing to do this is just mentioned are going to switch from kiss to ghr hand in the east of England something that Ofcom is just allowed value despite the complaints from some of the other some of the other radio stations are competing in that area you know we're going to see more of this people try out is it's not it's not maybe as critical because you know because so the majority of listening now for most stations is digital what you actually do something like FM

And get you can you can experiment some more I think and that and that's what we beginning to see and that and you know that that's quite interesting you know it keeps keeps saying lively you know you will lose some this somebody will these listeners because the way people may be driving an old car that they've never put new DAB radio station in all that you know whatever you DAB radio setting they're not going to be able to listen and you know maybe they're not going to jump through the hoops required to to make those changes so that there are costs that but maybe there'd are much smaller than we used to think they are arrivals global over in Leicester Square how they do probably mixed numbers.

I would say across most of the board the capital brand fail a little bit that includes kind of all the capital stations, but you know it was up on the year.

I mentioned Dave kind of just added in capital chill smooth.

Was down on the Quarter and up on the years is very similar sort of thing going around in indeed even the heart network was down the caught up on the year that supposed to the most interesting one because it kind of lens to a kind of why do things about space station is LBC had a bit of a hit this quarter and that's not uniquely to LBC using the BBC speech text stations take hits to a certain extent as well x radio with wireless this seems to be something going on there.

I don't know you know exactly what that is it hard to say my my suspicion is it's a combination of the growth of podcasting because so much of these stations outputs its targeting perhaps the same kind of person indeed same with the same programming that enjoys podcasting that is also news avoidance is caesarea.

Sing and the voters digital news report came out a month or so bag and you can go and read it on their website and you know the UK has a highly significant number of people who actively avoid news.

You know if you think of some of the negative stories from your nose it cost of living crisis to climate change to offer the war in Ukraine you know there's a possibility that you know maybe that's having an impact on somebody stations because these are the kind of things they the bread and butter that's what they're talking about all the hypothesis.

I don't know but we've seen a couple of quarters now and it does seem to wear a slight Decline and it does seem to be affecting everybody so so much is maybe both of those kind of elements are coming into play.

I was booking it.

I was looking at some radio for data and obviously the headlines today programme figures.

Please open the lowest for quite a while, but there's a program to the rises and falls with radio for roughly about 6061 percent of the Radio 4 audience listened to the Today programme that's been the case since can a post-pandemic had a bit of a look at the demographic breakdowns and sort of under 55s which I will call the yungeen 23 definitely is under is under quite a lot of pressure and has been been sorted dropping off 55-64 fairly strong and 65 plus is anything is been going over the over the past kind of few years.

I mean really thought I was talking about money replenishes for the audiences that fall off the other end of the radiator, but that's too seems tougher and tougher as you say particularly.

There's there's never been as much quality UK speech content as there is back on Broadcast radio but also in the mirror of a podcast.

Play smile by ready for is it is quite competitive anyway.

Yeah and also that listening.

So if I choose to listen to I don't know the news quiz on BBC On Demand rather than live on a Friday at 6:30 that isn't going to Rachel that come so it'll get measured and the BBC's measuring with its BBC sounds podcast listening for that is measurable is getting kind of falls out if you like this for the side of sort of Regular radio listening and Anna's particularly younger audiences that becomes the way you listen to that shows you know the idea that I'm going to be glued to my radio at 6:30 to hear particular comedy or particular, show is is is muchly in the same way that you know audiences aren't watching linear TV quite so much for a decent not you know outside of sports and major reality shows and things like that.

I you watch it on your own time effectively and

And absolutely that competition you know he even in a time when you were seeing maybe some cutbacks in certain levels of investment things like podcast its notable Spotify paying lots of money to get Louis Theroux across with seen pod save the UK launch.

You know x the Guardian everyone launching fairly substantial broadcast operations in the UK that there's no Daddy said there's no shortage of things to be listening to aimed at that younger putative Radio 4 audience a little bit before I mean x radio.

I think it's a great list of like.

It's clearly a really well put together radio station, but it can't really seem to get away from around half a million listeners.

It is this a marketing issue.

Is it a Brandy is it a program issue for them smashing things interesting because he's actually pick up a copy of the times.

You can't really move for.

Times radio but we all know you know newspaper sales of declining and so you know that even the value of free ads in the newspaper is only going to get you so far compare and contrast by the way the bus size advertising global services because the bus site advertising and they can they can put a catheter lads when there's nothing else being sold and these people in the street.

See it.

Yeah, I don't know as he say I think it's a good service spect if you spent more on marketing it you would get a bigger audience but you know all the same things coming to play a little bit that we've just been talking about and they are strong competitors out there.

You know LBC is a good station their lineup continues to do well that day timeline incredibly strong and you know radio speech radios also habitual.

So you really got the work hard to get people to put you on the dial.

You know to retune, so you know it's never a given.

This is a year's project not a quarter project.

So it is hard to say it's hard to say I mean.

I'm not even sure that you know necessarily the big money signings make make the sense necessarily that they might do in a music station the big money signings the one that the first big ones to go with Chris Evans off to Virgin Radio also in in the same building as it's time to any also talk radio talkSPORT how's Chris and yes, oh Virgin I'm in the flat on the year and reach but they don't about 5% on the court and found out 2% on hours both from the course.

I said a floating around the 1.4 million number and I've been there for a while and Chris Evans he's down about 4% on the quarter only about 1%

Again, he's on across a network 163000 so it's kind of blokes around and 900000 is listening mark which some sleep you no way off.

What he would have got back and Radio 2 but you know it's never really it's never really sort of broken out of that video I suppose that's that's probably but they probably find disappointing.

I think that the whole kind of Denise UK side of things in that group as world.

It's the founder audience and finding another chunk of it is just quite difficult in ASDA Super competitive noisy world.

There's that you that bit at the beginning.

I mean it will have to be interesting to see what happens to Ken Bruce overtime now.

You know once everything sort of levelled off a little bit but yeah, it's it's you can get those people in at the start.

Then you know the big fans because I think all of these yes, they're on DAB yes or on DAB nationally but it's you know a little bit out there.

You've still got to think about it still not necessarily sitting on a radio brand that is in your search of top-tier of radio brands, even though you're smart speaker can easily stream any of these services you know it's not you.

No front of Cortex there, so you know it's a challenge.

You know we've seen this now repeatedly where you know you'll get to a level and you just can't push speaking of nearest station so boom radio have a can of meteoric rise since it launched.

Has it reached the the limits of its success? It was upper is quarter of a smaller degree about 637 35002 think do you think

What is still got more in the tank to be fair there still sort of 90% off on here is 100% of an hour so yeah, it was it was a bit more modest this this this quarter for them.

I don't think they have I mean here's the thing we just been talking about some stations that do have a certain amount of marketing even though they largely marketing to a live audience and then he's a brands that you know as far as I'm aware has minimal if anything anything in the way of marketing budget, so it feels like it's we're still talking about a word of mouth excess.

So yeah, I still think they've they've got away to go well.

I'm afraid to I don't think though though though though they've took out a little while ago and he was saying they actually did quite a bit of marketing, but it's very targeted at older audience so are spring chickens of course wouldn't be able to see it on my TV through Facebook

Buddy, I don't want things they said to me was there the challenge challenge stations is driving awareness and get Bill to sample station when they're in the door.

He loved it and do my thing has the highest average hours of any radio station on Radio 2 at the moment over 10 even beating LBC which will always does quite well, so when people find that station it does amazingly in their total hours which where the money comes from in commercial radio.

I think serves them pretty.

Well.

Did you notice from this? Course is Rachel giving all the noise around BBC local radio its notable that there they reach previous quarter so I don't know what to say about that About It Part 4 part from you actually the audiences of the audiences doing fairly recently.

There.

Is that the Curse of a Award Ceremony as soon as soon as good happens if your fingers go down or when something bad.

Your fingers go up to I guess around of the 5 million so they'll be please or management will be pleased may be off maybe not so pleased station.

We got this quarter radio x had radio x classic rock which is a new nearly radar reporting stay actually.

I'm in this kind of goes back to his so he's a spin-off brand 275000 reach 1.36 1.4 million hours.

They're not terrible numbers if they're kind additive to an overall radio x Brand and it's old you know that that that seems pretty decent jump on kisses down or capitals down or smooth down without thinking of the broader network and how many hours then I'll servicing across a variety of radio station is this.

Are all sold together and you have to change your mindset a bit? I think maybe sometimes.

That's why some of the BBC stations haven't got a lot of that.

I never talk to some people at the BBC national networks, they would quite like some Radio 1 on Radio 2 spin offs to to do a similar job to what absolute or heart of done and some of that maybe sound BBC sounds, can I see the numbers for it's not dealt with in the same way, so of course maybe those stations are going to be facing more challenges the network top up figures with her with a handy spin-off looking at the heart brand for example.

You know I love heart digital station.

They get 7576 an hour's now overall which is really staggering amount of hours ago across the round and even Thompson like smooth which is never the most talked-about round every you know it's got sorted.

6 million hours across a number of things you know a lot of people listening to and I mention hours here because obviously that's that's kind of what you trade that determine how much money you can make but these good numbers.

No, are you no substantial numbers of listeners listening to these services and yeah, they're not the you know they're not they're not the sexiest brands are not the ones national newspapers going to pick phone put the very solid performers.

I noticed classical music not had a good colour few quarters both classic FM and radiate down to the bottom down about 1.7 million a couple of quarters ago.

Sort of recovering now.

It's gonna back to that classical benefit a lot about 10% reach for the last over last.

I'm speaking to people are both of those networks.

I think they feel so happy since radar change of

The systems and how they put together maybe they've been over the affected and it's interesting both of them seem to have fallen roughly the same broader about about the market or how things are measured.

Yeah.

I don't know I think scholars.

Also not exactly sort of you know that's not well.

The listeners have gone to I think they've not had a great.

I mean it's hard to say I don't think it's because apple has launched a classical music streaming product.

I don't think it's necessarily the reason why everyone everyone shifted it and it's not like I think that the necessarily there's some been some enormous change in people's tastes.

So you know those kind of station to this should be pretty solid and pretty much you know quarter on quarter.

I don't know where there's been yes, there is a new.

Radio 3 in the song changes being made at the edges, but it's not so the entire schedule has been thrown through an upside down or in the thing and similarly you know there's a few bits and pieces going on a classic FM but again you know nothing to extraordinary.

So you know I don't think it's the programming that's causing these things that but you know we'll have to will have to see as you know the thing to know is the methodology since the pandemic has continued to evolve and the little bit you know the things I sometimes you know dew point out that we do have to be very careful sometimes when comparing some of our figures you know the exact how rage are being the various different types of people who being samples and that the makeup has evolved over time may suspect this more evolving to go on.

Don't know so Diaries to record their listening that might be a paper diarrhoea diarrhoea in their computer a diary on their phone, but now there's also a mix of live audio studies that is heard so basically in a phone it switches on the microphone every minute or so get her to get to grab that what people listening to remember that through the algorithm and how the things put together and it wouldn't be surprising that that's going to make some changes to some stations or how things have been reported in the past doesn't mean that something was right or wrong it.

Just is it a different way of adding it all up.

No absolutely they were all going back to some people for a while might have played out now actually into into the sample.

So you know all these things you know it is important.

You know there are different ways of.

You know the way to the US market measures.

It's radios entirely different because it's so m based compared to the UK system all of these things as you say they're all complete ways of measuring but obviously a 5 measure the same thing in two different ways.

I will get slightly different slightly different results and that's just I think of x x x How statistics work done.

Thank you Adam Barry for draining me just me for a chat about Rachel really there isn't listeners, but we don't think about it.

Thanks for that and I'm sure we'll see you soon on the Regular Show are we also cover TV press and digital media as well just hit follow in your podcast of choice will go to the media podcast.com Adam Barry and Gary scene.

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