Read this: Goodbye to Horseferry Rd? Plus ARIAs newsroom shakeups

celebrate summer with Mamma Mia take it's funny that all around the world on stage in London that timer songs as ABBA

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I'm one of the Producers at and now we make timeless podcasts popping with improbable connections and human stories this summer ACAS employees are donating to ride in London UK black pride and London Trans Pride to fund and support these vital protests + me to nominate an organisation close to for their donations to I'm picking trans actual a charity.

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hello welcome to the media podcast I'm acting on the show today Channel 4 office to sell it to London HQ and move North in itself from privatisation with an alternative plan win over the government the BBC set a restructure of their senior commissioning team for BBC radio and music ITV's new CEO freedom day protest to move to BBC media podcast lots of media news the week began with Spears Netflix could lose more licenced streaming rifles on Tuesday jealous around the world were recognised on press freedom day and the press freedom index warned of increasing polarisation and later in the week Facebook

Icon, it's podcast business after just a year it's central audio Hubble shut down on June 3rd and finally the New York Times reported it to Worzel acquisition and millions of new users placing the times on track to reach 15 million subscribers by the end of 2027 Now onto the show I'm here with two Media experts ready to help us through all the stories shaking up the media this week this audio producer and veteran observer of radio politics.

It's a new type of programming and I think you could do it.

Well.

How are you? I'm very good very good.

What have you been up to lately? I've been making for Radio 2 and sounds the shows guide to 3 in the morning, but they're on sounds forever.

That's all about the 90s and I'm making a chauffeur Radio 2 about Paul McCartney and I'm making a drama series actually with some money from the

Content fund which is going out on some community stations in the east of England which is all very interesting in all my nearly 50 years of making Radio never ever made a drama.

You know the blind leading the blind on this occasion fun yourself or if you got some experts in has it working no I've resisted the showrunner my wife conferred on me and I've got a proper director and we've got proper writers that we've managed to hire some of whom of work professionally I mean that it's a really good list of writers and we also got some really good actors.

I mean there is very little money in this it being Community Radio the idea by the way, is it 8 different shows one for each Deck of the Queen's 70-years, so there's a programme about the 5th then the next one is the 60s and so on right up to the present day and they're all about a family who are called the east.

Because it's set in the east of England for so that's what it is and there's one 15-minute drama for each decade and went recorded them yet, but very good for making them marvellous tv.

Critic and one-third of BBC's match watch podcast + occasional abs display on Instagram it's Scott bride 3GP AVI here.

Thanks mate.

Appreciate and Robinson on Twitter who should replace her on Countdown the plum job isn't it? It is quite a proper job like many shows like pointless and all the others you end up doing many records in a day, but I think it is just a lovely set of people in a lovely institution Reed and Robinsons well, she did an interview but what she said the reason why she was leaving countdown, but one quote that stood out to me when when she said well, I've got to tend to my big garden and my New York apartment.

Relatable and husband's Estate quite silent, they finally got him to sort of say something.

He just went I'm here to carry all the money.

Who do you thinks going to replace a lot of people on to say Colin Murray very big fan and has covered in the past because he did it for didn't I think he's also regular on the programme many people recommending Gyles Brandreth the sort of people that you would normally see it as guest house on the day.

I guess did the difficulty how much time would you be willing to give the show that was also a lot of height for Richard Osman and Richard Osman today tweet along the lines of I've literally just stood down from Pointless

Because it's too time consuming and he's based in London and the course it is in Salford for Countdown so it really I think I'm down to who wants to say yes a lot of money, but who wants to say no to everything else that got on at the moment of course on Channel 4 the most of news the ongoing news about the Channel 4 privatisation.

Where can I try to save themselves from it and it can I put forward an alternative plan really kind of cutting down London moving HQ to the north or opportunity to me looking for what Nadine dorries has said I caught a cold over the last few weeks.

She sees as a foregone conclusion.

She's made up her mind of course.

It is only a white papers to have to go to Parliament has to go for the House of Lords it seems to me that the government are pretty Saturday

About where they see the future Channel 4 and Channel 4 is not in public hands and I think if you look at the plan that channel 4 proposed on Thursday now, they want to spend much more in the regions essentially to the government's phrase and said that they wanted to be a levelling up forecaster.

So pubs in Glasgow Bristol Manchester Birmingham this is there plans town in and not have a private hire swimming at public they say that they walk in a boost more money to the regions create 3000 jobs that this would be anyone idea about to take it out of London nearly entirely there was no have London presents, but that could potentially mean the end of their Horseferry Road HQ which is something that the government has previously wanted but I also think that unless they come to some quick agreement and they decide not to proceed of it the government will go well.

This was an idea that you said to us before this is what you gave to his earlier so

Think they're going to come back and say oh yeah sure it sounds great you like for example to show how I think I stubborn the government is on this when they came out and they said this is the and then the week later Netflix had those really underwhelming subscription figures no went down by 200000 but it to the go down by 2 million Netflix then said they were going on advertising tier Nadine dorries said well.

Look at Netflix's getting into advertising this shows how big was dreaming Revolution is and gave as another reason for Channel 4 privatised rather than highlighting the fact that maybe we're in a big streaming bubble and these big streaming services could be sort of Peking or flattening or even going down benefits seem to be it's embarrassing the government providing some kind of ammunition force of later on in the in the discussion, but it does seem a little bit too little too late.

A bit like teenagers note to his mum saying if you don't want me I promise that I'll tidy my room and I might wash the car and I felt sorry for the people who had to write it really cos it's such an unnecessary thing that the government's doing I can see a lot of advantage in doing more production outside of London but it seems as though there on that journey, so I think it'll be forgotten as a document very soon got was saying I mean protestations waterfall gone conclusion now, isn't it? It's been very unlikely of them.

Maybe the government being deposed which based on the Council election results seems to have survived another day.

This is going to happen.

If I think it is going to happen.

I think it's the sort of thing that the Tory government is it distracts us from other stuff that perhaps we think they want to be getting on with but also it does smack of being kind of vindictive.

There's a real sense of well, you never did.

Any favours Channel 4 so you know we're going to make your life difficult I've yet to hear a convincing I can put it to the right thing but as you say they will go ahead and do it and it will be fascinated to see what I think the big sinuses too.

Well.

I work out who wants Channel 4 but he also in Waterford on which channel 4 having its identity because Channel 4 renowned for doing programs and shows that every other broadcaster does does not really tend to do and that I think is actually one of its strength.

This is the weirdest people see Channel 4 and its programming remit is a liability but streaming age it pays to be more distinctive with representation in terms of the intention of your shows that you're making in terms of the impact that you're trying to do like that can actually be your is that because if you end up having a fully commercialised model fully privatised model that actually turn off false identity could be stripped of the naturally could just end up being like everywhere else what the devil is in the detail.

Which of the channels can have public licence Commitments survive in which get hived off on Tuesday nights this week, it was the Radio Academy Awards also known as the Arias Trevor when you're looking down the winners, did you notice any trends? I was delighted as I usually am these days to see what a diverse selection of people is not very long and goes all the winners were either the BBC or the big commercial stations and now people are coming in from all sorts of very diverse backgrounds and and regions of the UK I didn't go to the event.

I know you didn't say I cannot speak about it as a shirt but as a list of winners.

It's a commemoration actually isn't it? Have a kind of Golden Age of or Dr don't know how long this is going to laugh at this so much good stuff being made and it's a tribute to all the people who have managed to get into what we used to call Radio now Claudio without having to go past.

Gatekeeper, what's that for you Matt being there in his career and he's a pointed out to me.

There are lots of winners who have created programming of purpose and by that I mean to the documentary or concept of 1015 years ago.

Where was a lot more than a traditional radiator and strip shows and that comes from podcast and streaming and the old days.

Can I trade you can never really win the BBC categories drama categories of things like that, but the podcast exposure is definitely allowed that to happen and I think if I was being cynical.

I would say that of course the new age of audio means you don't have to be popular.

You know I'm back in the day when you have to get your own program commissioned by big station you had to explain that this would attract 700000.

Now you don't have to do that so that you can be as nice as you like and some of the best podcast are very niche and would never have been commissioned by a broadcast linear radio station and I think that's very helpful.

Isn't it? It's a bit like what you saying about today for once you to seek popularity.

There is an inevitable drift to the middle to the majority what audio is doing is it allowing people to make shows as you say of purpose and programs that are deliberately there to attract small audiences up to the there was a statement from st.

Audio produces about one of the nominees.

This is Nolan investigates, Stonewall didn't win anything.

What was in the statement what happened.

I mean the same as it was in regards to the entry that was looking at Stonewall essentially being abused by them as being transphobic and it was a letter that had been signed by more than 100.

People working with the audio industry, although they did not make that signatory public and they're daughter's working with the Radio Academy who won the awards and essentially you were not happy with the steps that the radio cademy were making they said that it went against the radio cademy values and that they were unhappy about this podcast being out for 2-hours.

I think this would have been a bigger story if I'd actually one but the podcast did not win and I think that going forward I mean they this within a wider debate about impartiality and the BBC in and I think that this podcast was very much at the heart of it because from what I understand this podcast with not have been commissioned really centrally from the BBC from London it was commissioned former region and I think the essentially since there's this been more than endeavour to ensure it doesn't happen again, but I think this is.

Society any coverage of these issues of obviously going to be very very divisive but also at the same time.

I think that many people see there was a red line here and the BBC stepped over it good thing going to try and talk to people about it in future weeks as well.

Thank you a bosses for the media sector a few kind of changes in the last couple of days and Rachel corp has been appointed as CEO of ITN for this kind of the way for Deborah Turness to move over to the BBC which was not quite a while ago to be the CEO of news and current affairs and over at the BBC bit of reshuffle at the top BBC chief content officer more is reshaping the radio team with Lorna Clark who is head of popcorn of the coming to the music Supremo and mohits who runs Radio 4 Should Have Become

Speech Trevor you were a bit BBC Radio boss in the day and what do you think of the BBC's announcements via music and speech it's interesting in a way this is go back to the structure that they had 20 years ago on the John Birch when it was called BBC production and BBC broadcast because what they've done his separate now finally the commissioning from the in-house production staffed and about time to some would say because of a conflict that involved in all that I welcome some of this.

I think there are some strange Genesis that the idea that you know Gemma Collins is going to be produced by music but Desert Island Discs will be produced by speech but these kind of things usually happen.

I think that what you saying here.

Zoe is the current version of the BBC's notion of how important it's channels are for what we would call.

It's radio stations think increasingly there interested in bbc.com.

And they want it to be for sounds first and for broadcast second and the value to them of those brands that we grew up without Radio 1 and Radio 4 is diminishing whether that's the right strategy or not.

I don't know people have written off Lilia radio for many years haven't they and it does seem to still be healthy and I think there are people who are attracted to a linear schedule and don't want to have to simply choose their own podcast and make their own radio station.

I hope they don't throw that baby out with the bathwater, but broadly I think I welcome it.

I think it introduces some clarity into the system.

I was being between the lines of these statements and one things to that to me was when the press it said quote developing an ambitious digital On Demand the speech commissioning to cater for all audiences including those need to pop.

Makes me think about whether there's going to be more they plan to package existing linear style content and making it catered for on-demand audiences cos it's about it.

There's many shows such a desert island discs that are available as many individual programs, but in terms of Lake speech throughout the day on let's say 5 live or for you still have to find the normal program which generally tends to be an editor makes me probably think of how can we take the existing linear broadcast and make it accessible to those who won't let Beverley listening live.

I don't think it's like trying to massively develop new audio.

I think it's thinking about how do we have the the order that we come if they do and try to utilise it but a bit better what I interpreted it from anyway.

I think there's a lot of truth in that's got I know they have been conversations at the BBC about how can we invent a stream that is effectively Radio 4.

Without the news really because people would quite like you had because they don't like the repetition of you know today and then the world at 1 and then p.m.

It all seems to be a bit too much if what you want some dramas and features and comedy and all the other stuff that Radio 4 does well.

That's pointing us in that direction is that you could imagine BBC speech having its own separate from BBC News the chance of all of those things and looking a bit more holistic.

Lee is sensible.

It was also slightly strange that radio four and five live were in corners and never really conversed itns car, what do you think about the appointment of Rachel call Yvonne when she's come from so she's the new ITN chief executive but has been heavily involved Highly Evolved right at the top for ITV news for a while and I think if you look at ITV News currently.

I mean is on a really strong streak, they recently.

Evening is broadcast stew an hour at a time when I think many people were expecting it to be a stepping back from Lumia TV you think ITV have expanded on it because I realised that even use agenda is certainly a lot also that people really do love thoughtful in-depth analysis in the early evening but was in terms of scripts for brands with partygate has been a phenomenon Daniel Hewitt with all of his work looking at state of social housing across the UK Robert Moore with the capitol riots and being the first person in there.

I think if you look also at the way that they've been using social media.

I think they've really double down.

I think in some accent better than the BBC and making full package to clips of all of them reports directly online when they think a big story is broken and I think they've a agenda-setting now.

I feel a lot stronger than where they were is it for 5 years ago there in a really strong position for a long time.

I think CITV is maybe a stepping stone.

Going to the BBC but you only have to look at Paul brand who's sticking on now on ITV when I think he could have easily walked over to take the political job at the BBC to show how much and loyalty I start how to stay in with the organisation to see what happens next with a t and ITV news and she starts in September working people keep up with what you're doing in writing be on Twitter next week's Eurovision week mode and I've been binging on all of the entries the Latvian entry.

I think it's something that will raise a lot of eyebrows cos it's got one of the most ridiculous lyrics as an open and I'm amazed that has been banned by the organisers so excellent Calpe Spain I think Ukraine have a really good chance of really doing well winning a really emotional performance that they've got for their country but also it's that Eurovision unpredictability yet again as the high.

The well and that we're going to win and then of course we get to the following week and we never speak of it again, but there is actually genuinely a lot of hopeful Sam Ryder and I think she could actually end up doing quite well now.

I've said that thinks that kiss of death and if you are off the extra Media podcast content of course the easiest way to get it is to become a patreon supporter.

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Grab life by the handlebars Santander Cycles to find out more or download the app terms and conditions apply only Derby one of the Producers at and now we make x podcasts popping with improbable connections and human stories this summer ACAS employee donating to Pride in London UK black pride and London Trans Pride to fund and support these vital protests and station close to my heart for their donations to I'm picking transactional a charity.

Set up by a group of British trans people who work to improve trans people's experiences of healthcare recognition and media representation to go check out transactional now and find black and gay back in the day from aunt now wherever you get your podcasts.

How long will the show is still with me to chat through some news in brief case to staff the owner of Capital FM on LBC this is global told it's journalist to avoid reporting allegations of sexual misconduct against the DJ it's understood that globals under scrutiny after managers told staff to avoid discussing the accusations at the company in Reading on there is a surprise Trevor resist the right thing for a corporation to do well.

It's up to them.

No privately owned.

I can do what they like and of course I've got form haven't they think it was 15 when they told that journalists to stop covering story about HSBC because they were connected with them in some way and Ofcom report on.

Eventually found in Nottingham brici, but it does seem hard I think for global news to standby an accepted decision of this sort Sky News not reporting phone hacking on the Sun or the clothes the news of the world.

You know Sky is always maintained its independence and if I'm one of these highly remunerated BBC journalist Emily maitlis, Andrew got over to LBC I'd be a bit worried about this.

You know what I really be able to sort on Sunday that was happening in the company.

They work for and custard the light is shone on it by the fact that when BBC journalist have a story that reflect badly on the BBC they go for it.

Let you know absolutely Amber and times.

They love reporting on their their own boss is being lacking in some way, but I think it's a shame because Julie is about review stories.

This is a story that needed to.

Lots of the people who are most likely to be affected by those stories that were revealed.

Would it be listening to Global stations, so I think it's a bit weak of them really.

How's things sometimes with these things if this was 20 years ago you stopping her a story being being reported because you control the airwaves.

It is one thing but when something is is out there so much.

There's a danger that you kind of look out of touch by not mentioning it and listeners themselves.

Don't really understand.

You know who owns what and why and all of these things and leave you behind really can't I agree with that nice think giving that very few people now days.

Get their news from the radio there going to be wondering because of seeing all over social media wireless global on covering it and you know if you were capital Xtra listen or a capital radio this that might occur to you that.

Old decisions been made by these people who you think of is your friends all of this onto the wondrous world of the media quiz this week finding out who's been taken to task in the media world on your own so you've really got to win this otherwise it's very disappointing last week Jim Waterson did have good very good or service is your challenge.

I'm going to describe three Media stories were person or organisation is in hot water this week.

You just have to tell me who the story is about right here we go the number one who's been telling off their staff for slating each other on social media.

I'll give you closer is a newspaper.

I don't know it's the Guardian really they following a high-profile sports including guardian writers the publishes updated their social media guidelines warning staff who engage in public.

She's on Twitter so they could face disciplinary action quite a lot actually in newspapers in Twitter recently and tell the kids to think that's pathetic and it's very much what the BBC has tried to do isn't it over decades social media social you can't control it in the same way and trying to make you look older silly, so stop it guardian device therefore it from Trevor right number to he came under scrutiny this week after a scorching interview with Susanna Reid well, that would be the prime minister Boris Johnson yes correct after pointless over 5-years the p.m.

Finally sat down on ITV Good Morning Britain I want the keys have been out of touch by the public for several things including not knowing who Lorraine Kelly was GMB

Over 5-years he didn't come out from the interview today.

He looked as though he was searching around for another fridge to get into yes, I read today a great job.

I think sometimes obviously in the old GMB somewhat overshadowed by Piers Morgan having to keep the ship steady, but she did a great job interview questions good research and really LED the agenda particularly on the other pensioner on the bus absolutely she's much better than she's been allowed to be for some years.

I think Susanna Reid very good.

I'm finally which recently launched Talk TV show has been struggling to attractive you as this week's well this one by the aforementioned Piers Moron wanted which isn't getting statistically Tom Newton Dunn show gets note which is some achievement really considering how much they've been promoted.

I guess they'll find a niche somewhere eventually but it does.

I don't think is popular is people used to think he was in himself.

I think he appeared on some very successful format a little bit of it so pretty performer and it's pretty well practised.

I always need to B mean to look at the first couple of weeks ratings cos they're all going to be slightly yo-yoing well.

That's the challenge is to find your your core and then gradually build from there was actually I think she been used as sort of manage they've got their with it where there's much more Headroom in it.

It's difficult to know but I do like it sometimes and think easy to look at Twitter this is maybe wear a gardener on the right track you look at Twitter hey.

There.

Is this boisterous culture Wars discussion and just be a lot of very few loud instead of the public at large you absolutely sure that's right.

I don't know whether there's enough appetite in the UK for his match news.

That's now as it is now being thrown at the minute.

WHat score was saying about ITM having a good run at the moment and that kind of pull together of this is what's been happening today.

Just seem to be popular as it always was you know whether it's the News at Ten of the news at 6, but just sort of endless people talking about it.

I think less appealing as the years go by actually as we begin to be able to speak along with some of these formats how it goes that right-wing person here comes this you no listen to argue with them.

I think it's kind of a tired format if I could just brought in this for a second is it about time that we asked the question? Why do we carry the news on pop radio? You know who listening to pop radio is getting their news from the radio.

I would suggest absolutely nobody cuz they're getting it from.

Media all from an app on their phone.

Why do we carry the news? Do you have the news on fun Kids every hour so we don't have the news on phone kids isn't sure when we talk to her listeners CPR audience they like fun Kids because it hasn't got the news on and they know it's going to be a safe trip.

They have to explain all they can explain Ukraine on their own terms rather than being prompted by us to their kids about it.

I think there is a transition for me and using important part of the sort of sense of day to the fact that people kind of schedule themselves so much now, but it's definitely for a bit of reinvention joins BBC Two to run all of that in September as a new Broom she gets to ask those difficult questions doesn't she do a 3 means you've won the media quiz against no one else as surprised you get to cover Sharon Osbourne on TalkTalk TV in the post.

Keep up with the what you're doing including your new drama on Twitter and the drama will be going out on Cambridge 105 Radio and various other stations in the platinum Jubilee week something I'm looking forward to excellent.

Hope you're keeping your Twitter and your radio and your Instagram likes to separate will speak to you soon.

Thanks a lot mate.

Cheers, and he made it through to this part.

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celebrate summer with Mamma Mia take a trip with this funny feeling hot all around the world and Wear on stage in London featuring the timer songs as ABBA it's the world's funniest musical Mamma Mia at the Novello Theatre you already know you love it when you paramount plus original series 10 contract new original series special ops Lioness

Subscription required 18 plus I never like the analogy of being this comes down and never liked it come home and I was the all my people my people live here.

I'm over to New York and I went all over the world when I came home.

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My family is here.

So how do you talk about a city maggots disappear? My name is Jessica care more this is intersections Detroit resilience and herself in the heart of the TV show apple podcasts Spotify or wherever you find great stories.