Read this: New PM, new media policy? Plus BBC s news consolidation inaugural Audio Lab podcasts

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Are you have a lovely time ago tickets to the media podcast iron Matt Deakin on the show today and media legislation is phone.

What's the new prime minister elected? But will the new leadership alter the face of Channel 4 and the BBC

TV news channel launch in 2023 and 70 UK jobs on the light of her, but it's the new owner about the BBC audio create a program finished the producer and creator Adam Smith Shirley exciting new podcast coming to BBC sounds this summer quiz where our grand prize much Gary Lineker salary.

That's all coming out in this Edition podcast global advertising and sales partnership with Microsoft for its ad funded tier support the competition and markets authority is open to probe into groups BT IMG Media ITV and sky investigating one of the companies have fixed and freelance rates and breaching competition laws the BBC promises annual report marking the centenary of broadcasting the reporter build internal trouble with.

Make-up for women ethnic minorities and people with disabilities and staff numbers at their lowest point in a decade director Tim Davie acknowledge, they've been regretted losses but also indicated.

We should see Newtown coming through the BBC and the Daily Mirror appoints males John Stephens it's new Predator replacing who's off to the Guardian I got to expect with me in person to unpack all these breaking news headlines and that's right.

You might be able to hear a bit of background noise, because I'm on the rooftop of the broadcast at TV Centre UK editor Charlotte tobitt Charlotte welcome back my severe yeah, it's been a busy week for journalists.

What's it be like for everyone following me and folding events at number 10.

Is been hectic I mean I leave political journalists.

I think I'm really speak to how crazy it has been but yeah, it's just non-stop.

Isn't it? And you know all the prime minister stuff that then there's also yeah loads going on the BBC this week.

You know it's just this all sorts and it kind of feels like everything is happening before maybe we can breathe in August and I'm trying to get out the way now, so let's hope we can have a previously also with me is audio producer technologist extraordinary and Charles lovely to see you too and you it's so lovely to be in person.

So what have you been up to in the summer so far, but I've had an interesting summertime temporarily living in the Greater Birmingham area cuz it's very very lucky to be taking part in the Commonwealth Games volunteer.

So it's not completely confirmed yet, but look out for team Guyana right.

I'm going to stay on that one and then just trying to deal with everything in life as always.

Business expecting on this life in general.

Yeah, somebody hasn't looked at a spreadsheet ever is Boris Johnson baby.

Just look at spreadsheet to see who is supporting him and we know well not that many at the end of last week, but he has somewhat thrown Media legislation into doubt in the week.

The dcms is intended to publish the Channel 4 privatisation legislation want to major if you have BBC funding past the online safety bill Charlotte are they are they are on the bench I mean maybe yeah, so I mean online safety bill Prix on for they said it's been dropped until we've got a new leader in the autumn.

It's completely up to the new government obviously whether they continue with it or not and I think that's quite a lot of doubt because a lot of freedom of speech organisations and people like that have also become.

More vocal in the opposition of episode to start with people are quite up for it.

I think people recognised it would be good to protect children from you know porn and things like you all the harmful things that children can see on the internet, but then people started to realise I'm actually as lots and hear that could affect wider freedom of speech but it's going to be said that maybe news publishers one as worried because hours an exemption in there for them.

So news publisher content basically isn't included they platforms on supposed to take it down to century actually before table this week, they also strengthen that so that platforms also shouldn't take it down even before the appeal process is taken play play music publishers were generally quite happy, but yeah other people and yeah, maybe that backlash is now I'm going to stop it from coming back in the autumn as well.

BBC and Channel 4 it completely depends on what the new government thinks you know it it just completely change that Nadine doris's obviously been quite keen on them as culture secretary, but she's been a very loyal person to Boris Johnson if it's the quite a different prime minister and quite a different government then he's to say that they would keep that you know what's going into rails with the leadership campaign is on Twitter over the online harms bill Channel 4 privatisation which I love our listeners are interested in you think it is it off the agenda or I'll still reappear.

I think it actually depends on the state of the dcms.

So I'm not so across what's going on at DCA mess but I am pretty across what's going on at the moment education and similar things happening.

They got loads of ministers changing all the time.

We haven't really had a Minister or a text to state in post in.

Dcms for longer than a year or two for a very long time now, so effectively civil servants of driving a lot of this through and so I think it will depend on what happened to the new prime minister.

Who they put in my priorities are but it's also down to the legislative timetable and where they get a slot so if it's not yet been published and it might well be put on the back burner, but there's a lot of Chaos and turmoil at the time in at the moment and the Lords are very unhappy about various pieces of legislation that are going through so it's kind of fascinating to watch but I can't give you an answer.

I think my only prediction would be that whoever new p.m.

Is I don't see Nadine dorries staying in post.

Yes, probably a good prediction Channel 4 which is split some of your MPs and your supporters in the Lords is it worth going for I really don't think it's not making massive losses right now.

There's not a huge appetite for changing things Across The Nation as far as I can tell there are probably other priorities the new prime minister would like to pursue I suppose it just depends on the internal wrangling and who gets the which piece of legislation so has suggested that the toys try to change some wording in its annual report to support privatisation.

I look at this you know that the government own Channel 4 surely they can get them say whatever they want a report.

I think it's just particularly worrisome when of a time when Channel 4 don't agree with the privatisation and maybe you know and maybe they should have the chance to make the case for how well they doing which they are revenue you know in the annual report and I don't think it's usually some sort of lobbying.

The annual report so it is so I mean it's kind of not surprising based on on How intent parts of the government are on the Channel 4 privatisation like like the fact that more than 90% of people he response to the consultation.

We're supposed to it.

You know and they've just gone now.

We want to do it anyway, so it's hardly surprising that there's trying the narrative.

They want it to be to start with was pretty stuff trying to play Both Sides Now you know what I mean her and had a programs now and all of that they're just more than happy to have any arguments about their Channel now is that because they think they'll just be off is the new owner so why not say what you think and organisation it would be prudent to be seen to be fighting for it rather than going out whatever just do what you like.

I think also.

Liverpool in their knowledge, it was the only time in 4th is anyone I tried to do this didn't actually happened in the end, so it's not standard behaviour for a government to do that if I was working for Channel 4 and expect me to say great look at the things are doing we think it's important.

Just say it was wording around financial performance to try and align it with the governments of user not doing so good actually it's been doing pretty.

Well.

I don't think there's any suggestion is that the wording they put in the report was wrong about ongoing story former Radio 1 start in Westwood has faced fresh claims of sexual abuse including the rate of a 14-year old girl or allegations that the BBC sound of a crossbow side to the story of the reporting about it bring it to the four and then another part of BBC is obviously not defending it, but they're they're going through.

Find any previous investigations and some more information to come from them.

It's not great news for the BBC really whatever the result is it no definitely not but I do think it's a great example of the BBC holding itself to account and despite the cutscene over the past couple doing great journalism and sort of not bit not shying away from that just because it's about itself and I know there's lots of weird meta stories that come out about the BBC where has to report and Lucy but I just think it's really important that they did do this actually and the fact that they collaborated with the Guardian on it as really really nice to see as well, but yeah, we got to wait and see what they're doing you want their think they are expecting to publish the results only in about 2 weeks.

So hopefully won't have to wait too long.

Tim Westwood was it global until April over the capital Xtra show that they remain to the largely silent since the allegations have come out should we be expecting an investigation from them? I don't know if there been any complaints made around his time at global I think this is probably part of a much wider industry tissue around how we deal with stuff like this having had a dick around in the BBC down there with you.

I can see that.

There's only been one official complaint of sexual assault in the last year and only 53 complaint relating to bullying and harassment overall not all of those have been upheld now on the one hand that might sound like a good thing but when there's over 21000 full-time equivalent staff to actually more stuff that seems very low and that seems to me like a complaints procedure or a complaints environment that might not be working one of the other issues with the the the

Women coming forwards in the Westwood case to share their stories is that a lot of the 1 employees of any organization's he didn't have a mechanism to complain and this is something that I'm speaking to a few different people and organisations around.

I think it's something we we can't solve entirely because this is something that happens in society as a whole I don't know if it's particular your radio industry, but there are issues that I see you in one of those is I think if you are a contributor or a guess or you're not a member of staff you have no idea where to go or where to complain I think we should do better.

I think we should be able to together and have some sort of central whistleblowing hotline or something like that.

I don't know how many people would use it because most of the time these things go unreported.

I I can't I don't think I know a single woman who's been assaulted at some point often in the work-related environment not always at work.

So there's a culture around drinking.

There's a culture around things that happened outside.

Work and then in this case as a culture around what happens to guests and fans and and young people coming in Hugh well.

I mean obviously we don't know entirely in this case because it's not gone to it is when there's Talent involved or there's a massive age gap men not understanding their power or men who do understand their parent and use it to the wrong way the issue here is really around what we're doing as an industry to make a safer environment for people and also to make sure that we find out about this stuff because when one comes out you'll often find other people come forward and then there will be people who said oh I heard rumours for a long time and it's kind of finding a way of getting those rumours to surface earliest that we can deal with stuff in reality sexual assault.

Instinct challenge comedian who who put people on pedestals and make them famous about people if they do terrible things what's put outside of their broadcasting appointment made job.

What's the weight of to allow people to report it because occupiers of a special position don't really need to go ahead and probably do more than if someone was a milkman or I think so because they gained their position of power and Influence by the way you put them on our platforms and so therefore they had kudos and depending on the broadcaster that you work for you may also have trust.

Just automatically by who you are associated with and so that stuff that we need to talk about and we need to all reflect on our own practise and in our own organisations and sometimes it needs to be spelled out to people.

It's a good thing and I think we collective is an industry need to do a lot better at talking about it and not always just hiding behind our official complaints procedure does not have many people so there's no problem the problem the media extra power that they had and people see you lots of the horrible ways that we see the sexual assault even you're down to marginalising groups and things like that.

I think it is been fortunate to get away with the stuff before it.

Is it now facing one reckoning on all manner of the shoes.

It's also interesting a lot of a lot of the the children as they were and then young women were black and it never occurred to them that they would be believed.

And that's partly because of institutional powers broadcasters and also with police and and then there's the the natural kind of like did that happen.

Is that normal you know we didn't believe me.

I shouldn't have gone out late anyway.

All of that stuff that anyone experience especially younger people who don't know what's what and I know I've had conversations with people younger women coming into into organisations unfortunately there were still coming station to be had about 9 individuals and their behaviour especially around alcohol there are conversations that happened in my DM sometimes when people ask her if I saw we share information about this that and the other going on nothing only got concrete proof terrible behaviour that you can take to someone but these things are known and often it's a case of listening and making sure that.

When people tell you something that you are able to believe them and follow it up whilst also having a course the balance of criminal justice process in a minute until proven guilty and all that stuff but news and we'll see what they're BBC report on what it knows what it new a deep dive.

Are you on the lookout for some new summer podcast well this week for exploring a rush of new podcast coming to BBC sounds from the audio Labs program.

I spoke to Christian producer Leanne Ali-A one of the lucky podcast makers Adam Smith to find out.

What would he allow this all about and what new shows are coming to BBC sounds?

Search just on my god here we go.

This is older than I thought is a box labelled eisenstein project and it's got 1234 records like old LPs there just black discs in thin discoloured project.

I found it.

so beauty sounds audio lab is an accelerator program that we started last year which aim to platform and diversity and restart this program because we realise that is that really difficult for your podcast commissions on sound if you're not already connected within the industry because we have everything missing out of loads of ideas from individual creators who on the settee with an audio out last summer for people with 15-years experience and everybody but we really heard from underrepresented groups Untold Stories and underserved and

A result we had 6 amazing ideas that come through and then we commissioned as 4 series on sounds including Adams podcast and you can have them all from the summer.

So why you get involved with this you anyone can create podcast they can get it hosted.

They can upload it.

What's the value in in you guys getting involved but the BBC very very difficult to create a podcast that is beyond a conversation format.

Have a lot more intense production me but doesn't documentary drama a hybrid genre is it requires some time there is more resource some of those things like if your individual creator is actually quite difficult to get access to and there are very few places in the UK place where you can actually get money for podcasts if you like the Arts Council really face as an independent producer where you can get that and they're just very few options to get commissions and

Open that out in a way that allows more independent creators.

Had really great ideas apartment space to make the content they want to make because at the sound that we can better serve all audiences as well.

Ok so Adam you are one of all of these lucky few that have been commissioned.

What was the process to get there like and why did you think I'm going to throw my hands to this ring? Well? I have been making podcast before for it a couple of years independently and collaboratively and I have been developing this with a collaborator for quite some time actually we were really struggling to get it off the ground.

We were struggling to get funding for it even though we approach various different organisations and people because it required quite like me and said it's not just if your conversational podcast it required time for research and then lots of Sound design and lots of different elements.

It needed money behind it and it needed support quite a lot.

And so when we saw this call or at from the BBC on audiolab.

I just looks perfect really because it was completely open in terms of like what kind of ideas to pitch they were like really really open about it and so I pitched in for it as a producer and said to you know this idea that I've been working on here support that I would need and so just through an application it I had to make a clip sort of a kind of like a test a real of like what the podcast of sound like so I wrote in some friends to help me like do some voices on that and then I produce that and then the various statement answers that I had to and sent in the application.

So this is the film we can't see it and it's due to drop on BBC sounds imminently.

What's the what's the pitch? What's the idea the film we can't see is a six-part podcast series where documentary meets imagination and it's about a bunch of filmmakers in the 19th.

Is an early 30s Justice cinema was transitioning into sound in 1920s there was a queer cinema and anti-fascist cinema an anti-racist cinema, but then into the in 30s the fascist started gaining power and conservatives in the film industry started gaining power and so more and more censorship came in and when the Nazis took power in Germany they burn lots of films and obviously make it went into exile and I have found a box of Sounds which I think come from this time periods and listening the sounds and interviewing people about the sounds and finding out about this sounds and finding out this time is helping me to imagine the film that these people could have made in 1930 if the world hasn't turned to fascism.

That's the thing we can't see so Leanne is a number of other creators dropping podcasts this summer with you guys what else should

Listen to hear that because obviously we're talking about we've got play the Museum of bad vibes which is created by Hanna Adam which is the story of the museum of them taken from their original home and now the British museums and so has bringing these objects to life and also exploring and should we also blossom trees and b cars Italia Randall which is looking at who has access to nature and wildlife in the UK who the lens of race and class and looking at the different Communities that are affected by not having access to nature such as ethnic minorities such as the traveller community and she's profiling.

Get a train to widen the access to make sure the UK also got the reset by Jade Scott which is a look at some of the effects of life through the lens of a black woman coming at 13, so she's exploring themes, such as dealing with burnt out and mental health mental health different ways that will be give me the joy and how the body remembers former and also dating and two worlds we also have colouring in Britain Tommy Dickson which is charter Alliance on inspirational black British people whose story is haven't been that well documented and lastly we have who is Michael x by hands and tell me which is the story of Michael x who was a black British black panther and activist one of Britain's most.

Prominent black that again his story has it been very well documented and isn't very well known and but using his story to look at what is asking about Britain today at the film we can't see is on BBC sounds right now.

So go and have a listen and keep an ear out for the other brand new podcast arriving this summer if you like more about what it's like to have a podcast produced by the BBC can hear more about this from Adam and Leanne on our patreon.

Just go to patreon.com / mediapart will be back after this celebrate summer with Mamma Mia take a trip down the aisle funny all around the world on stage in London that timer songs as ABBA

Funniest musical Mamma Mia at the Novello Theatre you already know you love it.

Tell me about the party of Media podcast still on the sofa here in the rooftop bar is Charlotte and and to cover a few news first stop breaking as we are recording is that the BBC and out the combination of its Two TV news? Channels are saying it is part of the BBC digital first listed in also.

Save a bobble two channels will broadcast from London in the UK daytime men from Singapore and Washington DC overnight piece about this story.

What can you tell us?

Just said the BBC confirmed that they are expecting 70 job losses in the UK but 20 on and off-screen in Washington stuff new like in advance so going to be told about it today and seem quite worried sort of a few presenters overnight sort of starting to really defend the value of having separate UK and international news channels on Twitter there.

Will still be the ability to have like breakout UK stream sofas UK breaking news or said certain news stories.

I don't know what that means.

Yeah and also interesting me.

They're going to start doing like televised versions of some of the biggest radio show like sort of following on interestingly from what took radios.

Obviously don't we talk TV during the day that shows talk radio Studios and you know what they were doing on YouTube

LBC on YouTube so to start with it will be Nicky Campbell 5 live show to be on BBC2 as well as the new news channel, so that would be interesting yeah.

Lots of generalist jobs to go but I saying also a new life and breaking news team to deal with Global breaking news.

Yeah, but it's still quite early days to kick in April next year so long to to get no I mean if you look at during the pandemic.

They did sort of this modernisation programme to BBC News and changes around the regions as well, but that felt like it rolled out of it slower.

This is what 9 months also that's out for a major change light international change that does feel a lot.

And what they were just doing before maybe it's worth.

I think saying that Krishnan guru-murthy obviously of Channel 4 News keynote speech at the Oxford Media conventions and he raise this plan.

Obviously we don't have all the details yet, but when yours happening he was really concerned about the potential impact on yeah basically our ability the BBC's ability to cover UK news in particular and the a lot will be lost that we currently have like this is a really great service at the moment.

This is just what Morgan talking about over the last year isn't it the BBC does not have the money to do? What do in the past and it has to make significant changes to be able to afford the variety of what it does is this really terrible things but putting the putting it together the two channels is inevitable.

I don't think that way that they split the plan makes any sense so when I am at the same time so I would have thought that the looking feel from the domestic new service domestic news service effectively exist to provide a clip service in case something really big happened.

So they're rolling on all the time, but there were we got people ready to go in case the aliens landed.

We've got footage.

That's fine the international Service there's lots of partners around the world is going to an audience.

It doesn't understand the UK domestic using the same way.

Completely different products what does make sense is having a simulcast or a merge or refine of the product between five live and the BBC news channel so I would say that you need a rolling news service that can work well across all platforms which is not an easy thing to do but I think he would have the skill to do it and then that would also mean that 5 Live will be able to not have a random sport because yet again when we had all the breaking news and all of your friends to a journalist Harry round after what's going on with the the prime minister and what's happening next you couldn't rely on being able to turn on 5 live or turn on the BBC audio source and have that needs me so I was listening to a lot of BBC News just listening to it or LBC or times radio because I have nowhere to go for a rolling news service for BBC audio.

So merging 5 Live and the domestic news channel makes sense Virgin the domestic and international news channel means that they potentially do both terribly the other thing it's incredibly sad.

I don't know how you can handle more breaking news with 70 years staff and that Newsroom has been cut and cut and cut and had to pay people relocating and very experienced people moving and has been in turmoil for well.

It's never ending at the BBC book and cut and cut and eventually you are going to notice changes in terms of what you see and hear and the depth of the coverage because there's only for that you can push people and my heart goes out to that needs them because you know it's it's horrible isn't it? I think it's an interesting thought about bringing the radio and TV together.

It's very easy to have a very TV Focus mind if all you do is working television merging the Two TV news channels seems that the obvious choice but actually that's probably a bit more you can you can think about.

And have the internet or product to something else and then obviously they can feed to each other when there is a massive story that makes sense.

That's what I would do.

If anyone would like to commission me to look after that I am available head of multi-platform for the BBC News nation broadcasting is planning a big switch for somebody's radio stations as it ends of franchise agreement with our if I've listened is don't know what is nation broadcasting and what are they up to now across the country and they're running local and national radio stations and making a lot of good views of small-scale DAB to extend their reach so relatively new platform for broadcasting on a digital radio and so they had this agreement that some parts of the country.

Is you listen to Greatest Hits or Hits radio.

You're actually listening to a nation station and they they

From Barrows complicated dolls stuff to do with Motors back in the day.

I am I just had his things work.

So now that agreements coming to an end, so they will be rebranding those stations by the nation for easy they also run sensations called breezy that they're probably going to be raining rebranding easier.

Hope everyone is keeping and never mind because of the end, so that's all lovely the really exciting thing is that they going to be launching their own need some other people to do that then you are coming to an end.

They taking the opportunity to launch their own you service and it's going to be led by John Ryan who has loads of experience his former BBC Radio Manchester he's also does a lot of work with gaydio his works internationally it's got that nice mix of understanding music and understanding speech stations and so they're going to be riding a new service that is got.

Base information in teams are going to be producing it remotely to bring down the cost which was I can actually afford to do it as soon as I understand and it's going to be tailored to it makes sense to the station and I think the signal to move back to having local content being an important part of your offer so yeah, let me just heard about job cuts in journalism industry.

It's nice to hear that.

There's a little bit of journalism happening jobs being created in another part which happens in September across a lot of their radio stations hurdle has a new owner and that's the streaming giant Spotify Charlotte RUA hurdle phone.

I do have lung condition with my brother everyday to explain to be bored so basically wordle is obviously for what getting a word as quickly as possible with the letters hurdle is getting a song as quickly as possible It Starts by

Can you 1 second then if you don't get it you can skip 2 seconds 4 seconds up to 16 seconds if you don't get it and that you've lost and have a good range of genres on there.

I must say I can I can go good day you thinking I know all this music and then suddenly there's all this like R&B stuff that I undone sand-like current Radio 1 stuff that I've no idea about thankful it goes back to like Arcade Fire after that.

I'm not ok and safe again.

Have your stats manage to survive the Spotify change to be honest and shake your head so go to her and I was rubbish keeping up to today actually I didn't notice this signifies a move to make in their platform or interactive other changes to think Spotify on me to gamify music.

I mean I'm sure overtime now start sliding into my Vauxhall popping people in the past.

I think he went to if you want to.

The full song it's available in SoundCloud today go to Spotify for that makes it makes sense Spotify have got an addictive game that makes you look at their brands at least once a day and then you can click through and get distracted will have to see do at the moment.

They clearly didn't do any backtesting as regards the SATs I didn't really know there is that until it's pointed out and I had a look but if you press that thing it says I'll go and collect your stats on the Old website and go to the website and then you just go round and so I think I'm really sorry it looks like probably your stats are gone forever on the plus side that means you've definitely beating you're all of your relatives like 100% accuracy.

That's definitely what I saw in your sets right, so thanks.

I was looking some sweets and he was saying because it now uses the Spotify embed player if people are good at guessing the hurdles quickly, Maybe that will tell Spotify salad with other people skipping that song and therefore it won't show up on regular spot.

Judging by her it's been coded so far.

I think that's a lovely idea, but possibly not yet alright.

Well.

That's obviously once again once favourite game.

I'm sure it's a matter of time before so quiet by Spotify is the media quiz this week.

We're playing BBC salary top 20 true or false game of true or false based around the BBC's highest paid presenter if you're ready.

I will get going you need to bother with your name.

So Charlotte will say you will say there's no internet that we normally have a massive problems on the careers.

It's all in person so true reflection of quiz skill right true or false topping the list is Zoe Ball call Sam I'm afraid you'll have to put him with your name.

I will let you off that Charlotte I just been told.

It's false, but I think you should share that yes, you're correct is for so he is the broadcast the second highest paid Talent and I'm sorry that she falling for a second consecutive years.

She's taking a paycut number to Gary Lineker is the only name turnover £1000000 a year is that true or false I think on the on the public list of BBC PC want doing their stuff was because you don't know about then yeah.

Yeah, that's what I said only Really Counts for basically News sport and radio anything by BBC Studios is included in the list right number 3 Victoria Derbyshire has made the top 20 true or false and that is true.

It's fault.

She's just had a pay increase.

List announced as the new host and finally before a great chain.

This is the only addition to the list Ross Charlotte Charlotte false know it's true increase of £80,000 placing a number 10 on the list obviously Prezzo presenter.

He's added podcasts for Radio 4 as well, two lots of two-thirds of making her the winner of the quiz she gets her salary put to the top 10 next year but not paid for by us.

celebrate summer with Mamma Mia take a trip around the world on stage in London featuring that timer songs as ABBA

It's the world's funniest musical Mamma Mia at the Novello Theatre you already know you get a love it today, but I think so bitten and Charles Charlotte what are you working on at the moment? He's only there if you like City obviously do check out our new podcast which is called future of Media explained and there's definitely room for both of these because we basically we take one chemo every week so for example events all the metaversal podcast so yeah, it's wherever you get your podcasts now and there's a big interview and I think this week with the History podcast from a m m David Musgrave from history extra.

They're doing very well, so

What's coming up in the world of radio tech on so radio techcon? Yeah, we getting everything ready for that 28th of November back at IET London Savoy place, so heads the radio tay Conti and sign up for updates in you'll be the first to know when tickets are on sale and then for me I'm and Charles TV that's without any and I'm currently working on a really exciting project with a league can't quite tell you all the details yet, but it's all about object based media and preparing industry for an object based Media future, so if you or when your organisation needs training and stuff like that then come come see me exit and if you finish this episode you can show us you mean it by doing any all of these things and why not tell your colleagues about the show on Twitter or LinkedIn ferries to do you do it? Why don't you pop on in and paste the URL portfolio.com / Media podcast and how much you love the show also?

Patron of the show at patron.com mediapad you'll be able to access an archive of deep dive into the media experts including the one we had this week.

That's patreon.com / mediapad to follow us to hear new episodes when they drop in your podcast app of choice.

My name is Tegan you can find my weekly newsletter about the audio industry and more at matalan.com the Producers Phoebe advert with support from that.

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