Read this: Gauging the power of Britain's right-wing media

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts from BBC Radio 4 hello with Boris Johnson parliamentary career over for now anyway, we're asking what the Daily Mail hopes to get in return for the rumoured £1000000.

It's paying for his new column.

It's an opportunity to look at the power and influence the you is right wing Media holds in the post Johnson era, also the Guardians decision to ban gambling advertising Clive Tyldesley one of the most recognisable voices in football is with us he stepping from commentating on Talksport over the betting industry role in The Beautiful game and Clive welcome to the media show I think this may literally be the only week with no football on.

How are you feeling your time electrolytes on your way and there is an Ashes series to win before we really turn our attention to football again.

There's always a new priority.

Something else to hoover up your attention and emotions glad to hear and more from you in a bit also.

Joey Graceffa the athletic will be with us and summer football journalist is all about the big money transfers as it is this year for those who cover the media here is the Daily Mail star signing Boris Johnson here.

I am thrilled to be asked to contribute a column to the Daily Mail and I can tell you the Daily Mail that is going to be exactly what I think about the world is going to be completely unexpected stuff if I absolutely.

Well, ITV News reported that Boris Johnson's contract with the male could be worth up to a £1000000 required reading across Westminster was how the paper build the new column meanwhile.

Johnson's former the Telegraph is up for sale one of the founders of GB news is rumoured to be in the running.

So what is going on in the UK's right-wing Media I'm joined by Susie Boniface the mirror columnists also known as Fleet Street fox the founder of Conservative home Tim Montgomerie and Alice Enders head of research at Media watches and analysis welcome to the wall and Susie if I could just start with you.

What do you think is the male Chanel in hiring Boris Johnson well like the job of a tree is to provide kind of furniture for a newspaper something that is there a particular day and I always see what they're going to get from them and you don't need to be loved by the readership.

You just need to be the kind of

Really wants to know what you think of something sometimes and sometimes they will hate me but that's the purpose is to bring in readers what I think they probably got a problem with is the disconnect between what the male editorial line is on Boris Johnson and how the majority leaders have a drive to the country and conservative voters actually feel about him which is not quite the same as it's been a bit of a disconnect I suspect Paul Dacre if he was still editor with not made my Collins interesting Tim what's your thought at the same time that invented by the House of Commons on Monday there was a reception that he was speaking up and the fire wardens of the event had to keep people out.

You know this was a gathering of international prime ministers of leaders and he still massive box office even when his controversial people want to hear what he says and the male has taken an interesting turn in recent times.

There was a brief period when it was under Geordie

Will it seem to be moving to the closer to the centre if you like it hard and the Chimes with their new Ethos and then you Ethos is very much the world is a conspiracy against Conservatives against the right and I think it's that incredibly well business case I mean is it about driving traffic to the male side, or is it more about the influence of the proprietor for example? I think the Daily Mail in terms of prayer is in long-term decline end.

It is the single largest site in terms of traffic in the UK with 33 million visitors online and so clearly to provide more food for thought and also I think The Saturdays lots very important.

That's when people are having downtime.

They can enjoy it leaking of course go back to that call him every day of the week, so it's much.

Regional much brother shelf life then just with respect to the newspapers saying you know there was a bit out of step with the readership.

Just tell me a bit more about what you mean.

I add to a YouGov poll recently for the tires Richard the Boris Johnson is still more popular than Rishi Sunak I'm on 2019 Tory voters popular example.

I've never heard that comparison, but anyway I mean all of us speak to Daily Mail readers everyday at the most widely read newspaper in the country, and I just sent a little terms of brexit in terms of this.

This is very much the way it's going I just I feel that there is a disconnect between the actual main body of its readership.

Please conservative voters sent you that I've spoken to send you a shout in the polls.

Do not like Boris Johnson they want him to go away.

Have a period of quiet calm and as a columnist yourself.

What did you make first column? It was a discussion on the weight loss drug.

I can't even say the word semaglutide magnetized, but I mean no hand grenade so far.

There was an expectation.

That is your number one day one column is the big-name signing for what a 500g for which number of journalists have been made.

It should have been a singer you should put some effort into it looks to me like spending at the last minute it also looks to me like a prime minister was admitting as prime minister wild in the country.

He was taking descriptions for drugs.

He didn't need reconditioning didn't have on the basis that he couldn't stop eating cheese and all those runs.

He keeps going cheese and chorizo and is it just quickly you said.

Is that what you've heard not the million-pound that we were we were his page is not hitting deadlines brexit all at the Telegraph and every time because she's half an hour over your audition deadline you losing 50g you losing thousands of pounds, so it's going to end up on this point at this time where you think the male now fit with Sunak in number 10 in terms of its influence on British politics conservatism and conservatism scooter in the UK used to be the case that when the Telegraph and the electric centre time certainly the sun, what sort of mass readership papers, they had an interest in Conservatives winning elections, they spoke to the whole country if you like the spoke to her.

Beyond their own circulations now.

I think with them all with all titles with all newspapers fighting for their commercial lies actually own much narrower circulations is about their very Survival and so the Challenge for conservatism and Rishi Sunak is in a Rishi Sunak has to win 8 9 10 11 12 Motors depending on the turn out at the next general election the male only has to get you know keep it's 1 million circulation that we've just been hearing about and get a few clips online and so Straits of GB news the interest of the Daily Mail the interest of the Telegraph the sun aren't the same as a conservative parties at all anymore, so where is the concert by those needing to doubt increasingly the title department traditionally depended are looking more and more inward.

That's a massive problem for the concert is less so in opposition and I think that's partly.

Play The Mail will have got Boris Johnson there recognising in a year or so, it's likely would have a Labour government and now bell succeed more by punching Labour and Boris Johnson will try and much more with the readership, but there is a different now between the much bigger difference between objectives of the brightwing Press And of the Conservative Party Tim Montgomerie mentioned the telegraph telegraph up for sale as I said to cost through why and also could the male group actually been running to buy it to think well.

We think the asset and The Spectator received by alix partners on behalf of the banking group towards never billion pounds are so bad about the family.

Pacific witches we have both a competition regime which applies to all sectors and then we also have a specific public interest consideration kind of regime that applies to all medium measures in particular, so we think of it as being very tough to get a news to news emerging through both either on competition grounds or on public interest rounds and every time we've had such a murder in the industry.

We have had an Intervention by the Secretary of State of gc-ms and so we feel that the difference here is alixpartners assuming.

It is actually selling the assets may be 5 or 600 million.

They will want an unconditional offer they won't want an offer conditional regulatory clearance because they don't want to wait for the money is not the mail UK

Two rules out quite a few contenders and in of Christie's also there husband of interest in The Telegraph we understand from non-uk Media groups like Springer or medium who's Belgian company and kind of non-uk so the non UK people have more of a chance if you like if they're Media groups to buy Telegraph Tim Tim Montgomerie what impact do you think a change in the proprietor of the telehandler spectators as mentioned would have will have on the right wing Media landscape changes editorial stance for a paper and it has at least been in the sort of mainstream of the Conservative Party it hasn't gone to the edges like I think the Daily Mail has for example and so it's a question.

Who takes over the Telegraph will it be someone who is interested in if you like the good of the country and will maintain the Telegraph as a relatively serious upmarket paper or commercialism that I think it's become endemic other right-wing titles and we seem particularly in the American media which has been very much more trump being as a response to economics and the political idea that the world is a conspiracy against the right and the who takes over the Telegraph will be incredibly important.

Will they be buying it as something proud of to be a leading brand that they want to be associated with or will they just run it to make money and if it's the latter the danger is it will reinforce this thing? I was talking about earlier where the right wing call the Conservative Party away from the mainstream.

Whether you don't you want to maintain the Airway of whatever government.

Is is there any sign of that but maybe having richest honours office and he's not at some point in the near future and a very nice chat, but not not really a journey and that's how his father and the newspapers as well as the hands of way.

He's not interested in maintaining the Empire if you see what I mean as far as I know what teams did about that disconnects.

You've got between what the right-wing press need to do to maintain their readership and focusing you know spiralling down if you like into the Conservative Party needs to reach out to be going to be re-elected in any sense.

I think that's part of the problem.

If there's someone takes over the Telegraph who chooses to go that route for commercial reasons or otherwise.

That is it is I never decreasing circle.

It does not improve you have to reach out to more people especially when you going to be operating more online and selling subscriptions and so on and that's the way forward and that's why you cannot rely on the fringe of any part of a political viewpoint in order to maintain.

You know your position newspapers have been successful or unsuccessful every single time in the only way to do that is to be more centrist eventually or they may have a period where if there's a sale here it goes to someone who thinks GB news or something that it becomes more fringe, but that I'm thinking at the bigger picture.

You know I'm thinking about how this Friday night the Conservative MP Lee Anderson launches his evening show on GB news has there been a genuine tilt UK media and in right-leaning channels like GB news like talk.tv.

The day now.

Play the role of tables wanted in terms of loud opinion driving the bay all that that's a very important point.

Because I said radio talk radio in particular has seen a vast expansion in terms of audiences lots of opinionated talk and someone else radio on particular.

Well.

It's in the car.

It's unique and someone is the real opportunity of you mentioned TV but TV is subject to import reality in a way that radio is it so I think the expense of radios important and I think the social media networking component of all this is vital because we know that mailonline.co shared on social media and they have networking effects and I think the online channel is far more Potent then then the print could ever you know so I think you're right the expansion of right-wing commentary and someone is very important in this country.

I would love to bring you in here.

You know you've worked in the British Media for decade.

You make of the influence the metre still hold or doesn't hold indeed on the British Public on crowning prime minister's on hiring them is columnists are probably more trustworthy in terms of providing a balanced view of what was saying they haven't prevent it the two great democracy the west electing trump and Johnson having said that I've never met Boris Johnson I don't want to be my instincts are not good but the production technology is probably the one area where I think he may be does have some authority and I would listen to him and tell him you're laughing.

What you found it conservative home back in 2005 it seemed to have the ability then till my dear policy and Michael Gove called it probably the most influential political website in Britain have we been over stays in the world with traditional yes, that's what you seem to be saying but also it was that are unique moment and Times of power concentrated in one website has it become much more fragmented since I've never even heard of it and it was and still is a relatively small readership in a probably measured in thousands of most tense of thousands, but this is still something that is very important in media.

I think it's important for the time.

That's why the time still matters a great deal.

There is certain title certain websites that a red by ministers there be a red by Joan that stay focused on the Inside Story and the inside workings of our country and they still matter for that reason because they're there a wider conversation that.

Just between individuals not as wide as the country as a whole obviously but those niche websites our conversations between professions that I think the internet as the name we didn't have before and I think they still matter a great deal probably more than some of the mass and readership platforms anyone.

Just chilling and listening to the media show on BBC Radio 4 talking bit about Hannah newspapers make money or not the Guardian announced last week.

It was banning all gambling advertising from its outlets.

It says they are unethical meanwhile Close Tyldesley a stepping down from commentating duties on Talksport because of his discomfort about having to promote gambling companies on air so how intertwined is the media with gambling Joey d'urso investigations right at the athletic is here and has written extensively on how dependant sport is on the industry.

Alexander's is going to help us put some numbers on it as well, but Clive first of all you tell us more about why you made your decision.

It's a personal decision.

It's always too selfish one realease you say I just didn't feel comfortable reading out in game odds during live commentaries.

I'm not example of myself never have been I'm not answer gambling per say I just don't think I should be promoting in turn down opportunities on gambling ads throughout my career due just push me into a place where I didn't want to be broadcasting in game or anymore.

He said he would just remind me what he's been banned for 8 months from who played for Brentford and indeed England just to remind people listening.

I've got several commercial arrangements with illegal about how much size and how much did you have to do that? What did you have to do when it came to betting out on Talksport how much we have to say something?

The light football show is sponsored by betting companies represented with that company discuss the mattress with the main presenter pre-match and at halftime in a charity bet for a charity that I'm a petrol or that I declined be a part of my brief was to give updated match odds Midway through each half with a mention that was followed by a script that simply said 18 + begambleaware.org.

It was my own personal practise to expand on that by actively encouraging listens to help and advice on how best to enjoy their gambling and then doing that I was probably kind of absorbing my own sin by going over and beyond but the more I did it the more awkward and as I say I think the Tony is you just pushed me to towards doing something else and we told not to do that at all.

Just a point now and Dubai Dubai in.

For the vast majority of people who would hear you read out the adverts make those mentioned is not going to leave the problems sanctimonious evangelical in a chocolate or red wine and tomorrow.

I'm street corners in search of Felicity Jones and I don't subscribe to our doubles T's and C's at the end of the commercial which red so quickly you can't read them.

I know me the betting odds now have more information on limits and time out and that should be the normal we don't need any more of Ray winstone's idea of responsibly where we got to be more grown.

Think about this issue and and take responsibility to let me bring you in from the athletic.

Just how important has gambling promotions revenue been in UK football people talk about it and how is biggest really big I think particularly in the lower down you go you've got the Sky Bet English football league Sky Bet championship the Sky Bet League One and league two particularly in the lower reaches the Premier League and the biggest Manchester united-liverpool are appealing to a global fanbase in particular parts of the world in a particularly in the Middle East they don't like camping so much are there a social taboos against it low down the Premier League clubs are very line on gambling money and you know it's a real tangible about that might make might mean you don't sign that strike this summer so there's a huge sums of money for media companies and for football and I'll be different to other countries in Europe for example and elsewhere.

It was happy with across Europe Italy briefly and and brought it back into the money is really big I mean and the reason for that is.

Acquisition costs is huge and what I mean by that is so you're selling.

I don't know a toothbrush you know how much does that cost a 40 quid you probably not going to buy more than one every year or to say you're selling chocolate bars.

You might want a week again.

Not a huge sum of money from a customer with you require if you you know get someone into a gambling company legally they might spend £1,000 a year.

They might spend £10,000 a year.

They might spend £2,000 a year some people genuinely do that so the potential you know it's like you're selling cars or something.

It's possible.

You'll get a huge amount of money from attracting one person for your radio or TV advert about gambling in sport first in the Guardians decision to ban all advertising gambling advertising.

How do you that isn't empty gesture do they get a lot of it they considered that gambling was no more than 1% of their global advertising revenues and I think obviously there are many people who consume the

Free so it was the absolutely designed to sort of leverage the current news flow around you know premier league shirt sponsorship and all the bits in the government around the white paper on gambling and problem gambling and putting the spotlight on all this advertising stuff, but I think the things I want to say is that you know we were talking about TV advertising you advertising this not but the bulk of advertising for gambling is online.

It's unregulated and it is a served from over external websites and it's really young people and it is driving a significant expansion of gambling behaviors both in children and adults and he does say they do have rules ever online gambling from outside the UK and our view is that is very very loose all the TV ads are provided.

What is a sense of responsibility in the TV industry around but never money spent on that in terms of TV the media easily wean itself off gambling no more than 4% of TV advertising revenues partly because you've been a lot of voluntary bands and Whistle to whistle everything of retirement has been a lot of retreat from advertisers from the TV medium obviously because you're online offers a higher rate of return on investment for them.

So I I don't think it's very very big like I said huge online and that's an issue.

What would you see happened in the Premier League is Windows announce that you know the agreed to take getting out off the front of shirts from well season that begins 2026 and 2027.

Would you like gambling to basically become invisible? I don't think that's my call.

That's not why I've made my own personal progress as you said been made and some of it voluntarily some of it through legislation.

I think you both cases, that's the result of increasing pressure on football on gambling on government United to do something that nobody ever seems to act without a nudge without if they don't have someone relax for them the white paper was published in the spring was 3 years in coming.

It's still for a further consultation.

So why years of waiting the Premier League have just referred to run over the course of the next three years they hardly draconian.

I think the direction of travel is good, but it's slow it was it was too slow for Tony so I just want the pressure and a review and a responsibility to grow and we should say we have something from the betting and gaming Council who told us regulated betting and gaming to the country's best love sports with funding including English football league and it's clouds which received 40 million pounds and nearly there so the government as previously stated that research did not establish a causal link between exposure to advertise.

And the development of problem gambling Tim Montgomerie can I bring you and you co-founded the centre for Social Justice which has campaigned on gambling your big man united fan.

I'm interested in what you make of it all well with notice centre for Social Justice you talking about the worst of forms of politics around with Boris Johnson but you know in labour MP Carolyn Harris and the Tory MP and Duncan Smith does a cross-party partnership that people at the bottom of the Pile are the people really suffer most from this gambling growth industry people really don't have money for putting money that I can't afford and that's why some have been put in place so important to make appointment with the premier league are not regulated family films at all about child abuse in China with Chinese characters and times are legal in China It's Complicated well.

We could keep talking but unfortunately we can't because we are as usual running out of time on the media show thank you so much to all my guests.

Boniface Tim Montgomery Alice Enders Joey d'urso and Clive Tyldesley thank you very much for everybody for listening because we will be back next week at the same but until then thank you so much, goodbye.