Read this: Twitter bows to Erdoğan?

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts from BBC Radio 4 for the presidency heads for a second round we're looking at the challenges John Lewis in the country face reporting it and what did you make that Sunak zelensky bear hug that photo of a pm welcome in the Ukrainian president to Chequers on Monday has been hard to miss but it's raising eyebrows because it was taken by the in-house Downing Street photographer we also talking about how Google latest AI announcement could affect how you the web what it means for news websites who depend on your traffic for income is only goes from Insider is with us through the program China is a i something that you would inside or terrified of and I think it is meant to be put in jealous out of business that you and me happy is the right word but certainly intrigued with trepidation as may be hard describe the mood inside on his room because I was reading your

Said last month as tsunami is coming we can either ride it or get wiped out by it and you're setting up a working group to see how I am I might help with the work plan and here's a test group of John piloting.

You know using chat GPT underpinned by gpt-4 as well in terms of whether it helps or hinders their their reporting editing process or whether they even use it because how many Jonathan not necessarily early adopters and they may find it's not useful at all and they ignore it's because it's not available at all as yet, so I will be interested in the results of last ok.

We'll much more on that later, but let us start with turkey, then the first round of the Presidential elections has taken place.

It's gone to a run of President Erdogan has the slight edge.

It's critics say is undermined turkeys independent Media that the country's broadcast landscape is dominated by pro-government outlets so how difficult has it been to report on the maid has been reporting for the BBC Turkish services for welcome to the media show.

BBC's approach been then and he's elections the BBC's approach is the same approach to me another news liking I'll be held guidelines.

We have to be balanced to be objective which are the mean values of BBC journalism, so it's the same again for Turkish elections, but I suppose the question is in your assessment have journalist been able to report freely.

They are facing challenges primarily on the ground covering it.

Yes, because like when you look at the presidential election results you can see that like the results of van and cholesterol though, it's almost like 50/50.

So it shows the polarisation in the country station is a very high in Turkey that's also reflected upon reporting from church is as a reporter to reach out to the audience of the other side because for example there is a storm in Turkey called.

Media which is maybe doesn't make sense in journalistic terms when it comes to universal journalism, but like if you are criticising the government you are a member of opposition media and that's widely believed to be was that what the government says about that mate.

It's a public public and how much of the media is that so-called opposition Media how much of a meeting with pro-government? What's the balance entitled liking on more than 89 because he has been in power more than 20-years and people how do I'm business people have Close relationships and this business people on this major institutional which are programmers so it's more than they have the financial power.

They have access to information so more than 89% of 32 Media is pro-government and are you staying there any independent Media independent Media exists and that it?

Opposition Media is that what it is or like of course there are also independent journalist who are trying to make a balanced or like in objective journalism size and government if you're doing investigative journalism that say you are close to find as opposition journalist and it's also you have the most difficult thing could be for you to reach out all the other side to reach out to the akp supporters.

Let's say and maybe you want to reach out to them to change their minds or to show him the facts about the yemenite Denise his Turkish academic and cyber rights activities in Istanbul because in the hours before the election president Erdogan government ordered Twitter to block the account setup position figures something Twitter agreed to sing on Saturday night in response to legal process and to ensure Twitter remains available to people of Turkey with taking action to restrict access to some content.

Turkey today and thank you for coming on the 1st August through what happened as you understand it basically on Saturday night.

Just hours before general elections be announced as you said that they did not comply with the decision that were sent to the Twitter platform.

They were going to trouble basically limit the bandwidth access bandwidth, so that people in Turkey like myself cannot use the healing mask and then he said that he was in his justification was going forward to the lesser of the two evils so blocking access to some Twitter accounts approximately 400 weeks, but obviously this isn't this isn't a new practise and hundreds of decisions are.

Kilobases sent two matches Twitter but all social media platforms since about 2014 when the logos and decisions thousands of I will give you some examples for each sample was 700000 websites are currently blocked from Turkey in addition to that 150000 individual internet of news articles are blocked from 33 samples since July 2022 WhatsApp America Turkish news website the entire German News website the turkey branch of The Independent News website and national Film board of Canada among those blockfront presumably the fact that their blocks men they haven't bound to this pressure from the government and they've taken blocking it.

I'm Jimmy Wales Vander Wikipedia push back on what Twitter has done.

He said that when we could be there was faced with the demand to delete articles a few years.

Criticise the government he thought it in court and he said on Saturday this is what it means to treat freedom of expression as a principle rather than a slogan that's the appointed by the Elon Musk but but you I think your man, what sort of that Court victory.

Tell us a bit more about that you wouldn't accept his blocked, but it took awhile is a user of the platform Twitter and YouTube and in 2017 together with Wikipedia I was one of the user's who challenge successfully these blocking decisions additional CT level in fact I have taken a case the government of Turkey to the European Court of Human Rights challenging at the youth of Pan between 2018-2022 get my tweets blocked and so far until mask took over they were not restricted from the platform, but I'm now.

I'm concerned that they might be and that Elon musk's attitude towards repressive regimes like turkey will be different standard terms of controlling content and for a realistically assisting desire to control social media.

Just wanted to bring us back in that mean.

How important is social media for people in Turkey when it comes to getting a full range of news.

Do you think it is really important especially for the young people of Turkey and also avoid the let people who want to get information or news which are unbiased they go to social media but again most of the public for example your are living in Anatolia you're not looking for the website or the left side social media concept will be giving you maybe some information which will be criticising government so still tell the

Is very important and widespread destructible cause Media they're like we can see that opposite major channel television channels for criticising government are just a couple of them.

It's not very much and they are not also they don't have the right audience and they don't have the financial support right.

I only goes from inside that when Elon Musk took over Twitter he made a great deal about it being the world's digital town square free speech and sort of immunity to interference from government but here to the Turkish government seemingly without much for fight.

It's quite entertaining watching him being school as for the reality of free speech and real-time you know I think musk you know like a lot of American tax figures senior tax figures has very high falutin ideas of what's free speech means tends to be informed by American culture and American culture has largely dictate.

The internet looks like but all of these companies and mask that's a bit more laterally running and the issue of you know individual countries are saying actually this is not what we want particular internet to look like and we can block or sanction.

Your company's we can arrest your staff or threaten to arrest your staff that that to some extent is also being made in the so it's not necessarily you know countries were in a particular countries where this is an issue.

This is going to be a global problem for musk and offers and I think mosque has coming fairly ignore these issues and real-time he's also chopped a huge number of Twitter staff.

I think 80% is what he told the BBC quite recently and that includes very team tasked with helping make these decisions in a more informed way including Twitter's legal chief vijaya gadde.

She was a very thoughtful leader and ladder very thoughtful team who?

About how to approach the issue of censorship the majority of not in fact all that team has now gone so it's not persistence of time before we move on from Turkey yanak Dennis just let me get yourself.

Have a coverage of the next two weeks will play out and do you think it will be different from what we seen already in this election will be it will be interesting and I think they will still switches on the media.

Generally is that is the social media platforms because both sides will try to control the narrative from their point of view.

I think there will be more heated seats going to the final round of the elections will be again by the government and you can say that to themselves are also provided by the government for example.

They can get arrested for it to read which makes some authorities angry so also.

If you look at it, how can we say that maybe we can challenge the idea that it's a fire race because most of the media is controlled by the government discourse, so it is also going to be import.

Ok? Thank you very much to the BBC's customers and yeah man actor Dennis from Istanbul over there.

Thank you both for coming on the program for anyone just reading and listening to the media show and we're gonna turn to something else now because on Monday morning ukraine's president zelensky made a surprise visit to see Rishi Sunak at Chequers you may want to see the photo of the two embracing it's got a lot of attention here's how the BBC news channel described it.

Just want to jump in there because we just showing an image of a tweet that the prime minister Rishi Sunak has sent from his account in the past couple of minutes which is an image of the two men in bracing and you can see the proper behind the helicopter behind so that's the British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak

Ukraine's president volodymyr zelensky there with Rishi Sunak tweeting welcome back that photo then went everywhere.

It was across numerous front page of yesterday.

It was taken by Dawson his job title on LinkedIn pages and press photographer butchi photographer to 10 Downing Street so what was going on? Where were the press photographer for this moment of history J Davies is here director of news photography at Getty Images and we're also joined by ITV political correspondent called in welcome to both of you and Jay first of all.

You are not happy with that photo explain why the castle day for the Downing Street PR operation us through the press photographers were on that day.

I should say press photographer.

There was a single photographer who is allowed to represent the pool of agencies in and I was on the first half of the first court.

Who is made the stand on the other side of a wall with no view of the arriving chinook that you was bringing in zolanski.

What was the explanation for that?

Festival security, then it was logistic and I think really because we've seen a pattern of it.

They wanted to engineer this exclusive moment for them and to get it out quickly and ensure that they control the narrative and presentation of this moment if you have been not behind that wall and I've been able to get that photograph.

What would you have done different in and how does agency work? Is it about you have offered a more wide range of photographs to be used or you might have caught.

I don't know president.

I'm looking at this rate of Hagen his sort of smiling smiling Facebook so very emotional faces hugs which is in Simon Dawson photographer the provenance matters and think about what if it was an awkward moment, what if the hug was met with a stick handshake and it wasn't the picture that they wanted it to be do you think it would have been published and I can go.

It wouldn't have and press her passport agri for I think people can trust that they would have the reality refunded to them captured and distributing and that's the difference is the problem she might not be in every picture, but it's more about the totality of what kind of Visual representation were getting from Downing Street from Downing Street what we've been on there.

They said we've always been cleared press freedom is an integral part of the UK and photographers are given significant access to capture the government activity on a regular basis, but they do have some time employed they have sometimes employed photography capture and share important government with the public including sensitive meetings which can't be attended by post rather.

Let me bring in Coulsdon from ITV news from your perspective unusual is it for down the street to use the same photographer in situations like this sometimes happens these days and all the time afternoon with more than one photographer and not just photographers as well, they also the video before.

The picture that we would normally be expected to use that doesn't mean that we're at necessarily always excluded and I think they were I think as I understand they were to poop a TV cameras one for the British blue one for the International Pool at Chequers on Monday but they do get there their own material that they put heart on their own channels as a matter of see we don't use that unless in exceptional circumstances, but it is all part of them controlling the way they are saying and having maximum amount of control over the way they are seeing which is important to Downing Street and when you look at your who is the director of communications as my old boss and with the bath time for me about the news before that Sky News they understand images again in terms of the Optics of this one.

What was that photograph trying to say and does it feel unusual compared with other side of diplomatic stroke political images?

Pause from these kind of meetings these things are becoming president selenski is involved.

I think he's also hoped Johnson Boris Johnson and he got quite huggy and I think we should also got a hug that are cameras did catch As He departs the Chequers and it's obvious that about showing the closest of the relationship showing that absolutely this government stands beside Ukraine and and that's what that image is all about I'd like to bring in your very senior associate the news outlet inside when you see a photo like this and it's good and you know but you know it's come from a government handout what goes through your mind that's a tricky one.

I think you know another one which is that you know inside there is a websites when looking to publish digitally and quickly off and audiences expecting a push notification expecting.

I want to my homepage and see the story up top you know the visuals are an important part of that so you know for us realistic Lee it's if a really great photo has coming quickly and as the first for Sarah good ethical academic considerations about where the photo has come from but ultimately it is a great photo.

I think we would at least take the initial call to publish and then perhaps later replace you know I guess you are the photograph from mother agency from getting years ago actually talking about back then things changed since then.

Yes the pandemic has shown that because that give them a sometimes legitimate basis for restricting the number of people in a room and I would say things actually haven't got back to pre-pandemic access in terms of the number of Visual journalists were allowed to photograph official engagements.

Following the prime minister around all the time and there must be some security implications 11 done is to allow just a few more people on there sometimes.

There are certain degrees of restrictions, but more important.

It's one of the other British Media to do she talked about policy and editorial policy and speed is important to websites understand that undergraduate that this is a paper right here from the where was Apple time to pick up an independent image from the press because everytime Bridge Media run one of his hand up pictures it really incentivizes Downing Street to keep doing this and under 10s are access and also the service to be exercised a lot more discussion about when they use them sometimes this informational purpose by this using a lot less than the currently do I wonder whether you now feel that you know the extent to which town is tree? Is it so newsagency these days with its Flickr account Instagram and others in a sentence.

Traditional traditional broadcasters in Angeles like you when it comes to the source of the information the source of the pictures they're looking at they won't treat something that comes from the Downing Street can't quite the way they would treat someone something that comes from the ITV News account or BBC News I can't because they know that it isn't independent that's why it is.

I think him important that broadcasters like us take a stance on not just using at the stuff that Dynasty put on our own put on when we do feel that there is an absolute editorial requirement or need or imperative to use it we label it as come as such we say that it has come from Downing Street the world leaders do it sooner than usual.

I can speak to other world leaders met at White House photographers.

That's for sure.

They they travel round with the president and you see the president events.

What are the things that they can be extra frustrating about these taxpayer-funded.

I might add photographers and video graphers it work for Donna sometimes.

I actually getting our way I was in Belfast when the sooner x and the Clintons I did at a photo opportunity outside the front Queen's University feel Good Friday Agreement anniversary couple of weeks back and other media without back in one position while the dining Street team were able to go in with the prime minister and and at one point getting in the way between us and the sun and the Clintons and you can do a shark get out of the way, how big is a team like that when you said Anna Street team, how big how many people would that be well often often you would see a photographer and somebody with a video camera at?

Following the prime minister.

We don't know who these people are sometimes are independent production companies who are involved in documentaries as well.

So you don't always have a label on them saying but certainly at the primaries.

It would be unusual and a big event for the prime minister at least two of his own people recording.

This is not what JD Davies wants to hear that.

I'm afraid that is always what time for your points very brilliantly J Davies from Getty Images and cold in from ITV news.

Thank you so much, but I wanted to come on to the fact that it has been a busy week of announcements in Silicon Valley Cheddar Gorge from inside a Google launched a whole trance of new ai-powered products.

It'll be helping with documents and writing emails for you very soon, but the one I want to concentrate on today as how Google and tends to alter how I never search results.

What have they said on that so they are the large language model technology that underpins you know things that we've seen already.

Mike Catt GPT that sort of stuff will be implemented into search in practise, what that means is the way you use search will probably slowly change the comparison.

I would drawers how start to you search will be closer to perhaps.

How some of your listeners use Siri or Alexa you know often if you're typing something into search.

It's quite staccato stilted language.

You're saying best restaurants, London 5 star that's actually not how you speak.

That's not how you ask anyone to question, but that's how we trained ourselves to use search and you know of a very used to find the information and string inputs and that way but with the advance of Siri and Alexa which you know also been around for a long time and voice assistants ai-powered voice assistance we've learnt to ask questions and human way and it's back kind of way of framing questions that will come to manual Google searches at work and it will be a lot cleverer than perhaps the voice assistants are answering these questions so

You might say to the new Google searching in recommend me a five-star restaurant in London where I can bring my kids and it will do some very clever admittedly slightly mysterious looking in the back of that information and probably structure an answer.

That's less a list of results and more more like a friend telling you the answer so who would want to take the kids to a 5-star restaurant what what do you think? He looks pretty ruined for News website? So you know fairly clear and immediate examples, but there are there are many websites in one time but I would include many many other major publishers here as well perhaps even the BBC you know we're oats content we wrote articles.

Don't for a search audience.

It was what time is xyz.

How can I find you know this particular TV show episode of those kinds of answering questions information or pieces like with a rather than news or investigation or features that I think will be pretty much wiped out by an ai-powered search and tools like chat gbt because these tools will will be able to present the information without really these existing.

Why would you ever click through to a third-party publishers if you can see the immediate answer presented pretty well and without spaniards necessarily or an easy-to-read presentation and station on Google or any other search engine case as an existential moment for those companies Google's also announce.

It's giving $100 to New Zealand let's what's that about the sensible thought through regulatory play from Google which is I think people underestimate.

How powerful Google is inside a wee think about the Tech companies almost as many nations.

In some ways more powerful certainly more influential than individual governments they can influence what information you see perhaps even how you think about things that Google knows how powerful it is if you are something that nearly has the power of a democracy but you are also being seem to be undermining a pillar of democracy such as a press by decimating their business models.

It's a look when you're up in front of lawmakers and you know regulations around paying news companies that such a being made as they were in Australia be considered in the UK and us etc.

Perhaps bank for money at these businesses and try and keep fairly independent of that money in just say do what you want with the cash.

You know where were Funland some Val are just you and Luke pro-democracy and pray all these are the businesses existing alongside hours it might fend off some Future regulatory problems.

I think that's at least one that said the other day is that Google is still reliance as it stands?

Content produced by news websites when you search for almost anything that happens you will land or probably click on the news website more than anything else and you were still looking for that information even with the advent of AI for it makes sense to to help fuel these business models ok, I've got to finish the last time.

I'm going to talk about AI on the media show but I'm afraid that is all we've got time for just before we go wanted make a little public service announcement you might be near the hay Festival next Friday the 26th of May because the media show is on the road and will be in the BBC Marquis at lunch time it's free entry and there's a whole host of other programs in there all weekend so do check the schedule out on the hay festival website which will be able to find by your favourite AI or search engine.

Thank you to all my best and thank you for listening from BBC Turkish service J Davies from Gassy called a cold in an from ITV news and Shona from Insider

Media show will be back next week but for now.

Thank you so much all of you for listening.

Goodbye.