Read this: The media mourns a monarch

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts from BBC Radio 4 this week we said farewell to the funeral the combination of days of coverage across the British Media that was both moving and magnificent the new culture secretary called the BBC's efforts phenomenal and spot on and it is not usually known for their support deemed what the corporation did a Triumph for almost two weeks Britain paused and reflected on 70 years of service many of you would have found that completely approach the media got the town right others may have felt your views perhaps weren't being represented today.

We're asking amidst the pageantry and commentary was there room for journalism.

I'm joined by Marcus who's head of external consultancies at the Lenny Henry centre for Media diversity Baroness tools conservative chair of the House of Lords communications and digital select committee Lord vaizey former.

Secretary who was in the David Cameron government at the time of the 2012 Olympics Emily bell professor of professional practise at the Columbia University graduate school of journalism and Stephanie boltzen is UK correspondent of Germany's developed newspaper and welcome to you all.

Thank you so much for coming on the media show and if we could start with you Tina stole, what is your assessment of how the British me is down over the past 2 weeks.

I think it's reflected both The Importance and the significance of the death of a Monarch after 70-years reign.

I think it has reflected the emotional reaction that there's been a monk's many people but also I think been able to capture how Britain has been on display in such a way where we we we showed the best of all of us really and

And and what we've got we've been able to to do is is demonstrate that you know this is a modern country which is still a great country and is proud and is not shine pudding to the front and centre all that we stand for so I think you know I understand and I would be able to do some people sometimes.

It's probably been more than they wanted not everybody would have wanted to watch it all day everyday even the most doesn't need to have a bit of a rice in their diet, but no I mean it has been the story certainly in the weights being told of a nation United in grief.

Is it simple do you think thank you so much for inviting me on unfortunately.

I don't think this is been Britain's finest turn the stick moment so for example.

Work and Isaac hurt me to diversity and that's diversity of opinions and views in all the full range and if you look at Scotland if you look at the polls that were taken at the time of the Queen's Jubilee so early on in the year 36% of Scots did not want the monarchy to continue after the Queen's death figures are the consistent for all should be 37% little bit continue if you look at young people in Wales 80% of adults under the age of 13 do not want the monarchy to continue after the Queen public document but those kind of yous were simply not reflected in the time and I'm really important constitutional moment.

Yes, it's the Queen's funeral.

Yes, it was the Queen's death but there's also really important constitutional moment here when the king was attending to the phone.

And at that point good journalism, make sure that we were all the views of the UK and different parts of the UK have very different and complex relationships with the Queen and I didn't see that and diversity being reflected voices were in their output and that they let me know we have heard from people who don't believe in the institution of monarchy for example, but I guess advise that asked the question which is taking on Marcus is putting me was it the right time to think to ask those questions in the last 12 days with Marcus has saying I hate it when there's a prevailing opinion that excludes every other voice of particularly one that sort of takes the moral high ground obviously in Spades during brexit.

Where anyone who dared the question is that where the will of the people and the winners cake on my break should be in work so I can.

Understand where my house is coming from however what I would say in terms of the Queen's death is that put it in turns a woman who had served our country for 70 years resurfaced we have died and she was going to have a funeral and those 10 days were about her funeral and the nation as it were saying goodbye in there is no there was no question my mine in the way that was conducted is it worth in the public debate in the in the public that exclude a future to meet about the future of the monarchy the Commonwealth where the King Charles or Minehead Estate the sum of the countries where all of those will be debated but I think it would have just been with I think that the service to those who want them being conducted during those 10 days.

It was just that was a completely sort of clothes period where we knew what was going to happen a woman that died she was going to have a funeral she was.

Head of state and that was that Marcus is not about having the Debate just as it has just said she was remarkable head of state.

They were voices you don't think that she was buy anything that the water coverage which for the most part.

Yes, of course we can point to exceptions but for the most part were talking about how amazing she was there was reports on the BBC where people talking on challenged with regards to how she was instrumental to bring it down a partite there were unchallenged and one strain to the apartheid debate then.

It's very hard not to bring in and you should bring in the critical voices with the guys too.

What was the role of the monarchy in Africa I answer some of those voices of being well being heard in creative the monarchy start estrenos very contentious political Waters is very hard.

What about

Make sure that all the views and opinions of the UK are represented the coverage and I guess also you live in the US how different was it in the US what I arrived by playing overnight on Sunday so it was very interesting coming from a New York which is full of actually many voices of a lot of them very engaged with the debates around empire and exploitation and slavery and the oranges and that enrolled into an environment which felt I think if you would covering a different country, North Korea or Russia with that kind of coverage of a head of state Demise you you would cover the BBC so it was quite shocked.

I think even British used to this kind of thing coming in here.

Two things can beetroot same time.

I think that the BBC cancelled on the Magnificent superb technical I think they can have a few Edwards saved my life should give him a medal but you can also so basically went on holiday for a fortnight and I think that's my feeling is but this is right there were no not just not the dissenting voices, but there wasn't the challenge that was not a jealous and I think something else interesting happened over that period of time as well which is take the queue.

The queue was largely a media and events in the length of the queue the concentration of the queue.

I'm fairly sure would have been different if it's have not been covered by the media outlets.

I guess we'll never know what to think.

Cubic tell us about our country and all of that state broadcaster.

I think that's the thing that makes life easier because we could be talking forever and not get a perspective from abroad Stephanie box and what about in Germany where people interested in this story in Germany and how interested they were certainly very very interested about more obviously on the day the Queen died age and then again this Monday on September 19th in fact that for public broadcasters simultaneously showed by the fuel stations from 9 in the morning until 6 in the afternoon.

I'm absolutely overwhelming and for me being a correspondent in London I felt overwhelmed this whole 10 days.

Simply because I mean this was the magnitude of if you are correspondent in London this is the vape the biggest event ever but also because it was a crash course you have to learn so many things that wasn't alone with that a lot of people British people didn't know what was going to happen next now.

It's the acclimation and then the king is in in parliament and then he was to Scotland and what's the professional from Buckingham Palace and Edwards it was it was overwhelming by was an inside into a world that is for sure.

I think it was also in the queue.

It was a bit stereotypical so it transported certain image of Britain of these amazing people who don't mind you in 24-hours in the rain and also I unquestionably in all of her majesty and I have called was a sheriff but also share with Michael said that a time she would wish it wouldn't have been so sad.

Legal issue and more diverse ideas and perspectives being respectful all the time would have been shown if I could bring you back in a little bit earlier my bell talked about you know death of John I mean Innocence wants the Queen had he died would you think this Innocence did stop being treated as a news story and became a national event that broadcasters and the medium or generally how long planned for it was more of it didn't feel like it was an exercise in journalist, and it was coverage of a massive event the massively and events the kind of which we just haven't seen before and I do think that there is always that danger of and the way in which the Queen was spoken of as if he was canonized in some way, you know where should have this is you know somebody who was was was portrayed as a somebody who was almost.

Human but I think there was that wasn't I don't think that was a widespread problem and there's a lot of that, but you know I think I'm saying about you if there were people trying to ascribe to Her Majesty responsibility for all sorts of International Events in the past that was disproportionate in terms of contribution that if that wasn't challenge that that's a bit old but but again I just think overall.

I think we have to see this event and recognise that is what it was and and the coverage the extent of it and the the positive nature of that coverage was for me appropriate for the significance of the moment, but that doesn't mean as already said that there isn't an opportunity of shouldn't be an opportunity in the future for a debate.

The future of the monarchy or indeed if there is any event or any occasion wear members of the royal family conduct themselves in a way that should be subject to scrutiny comments and criticism I mean but just not over the last 10 days ok, and you and nothing there.

I mean I'd like to talk specifically about the BBC it's come up already of course.

Cos it pulled out the Stops and its cover version was responsible for the filming in sharing the funeral with immediate headlines 200 cameras dedicated to the funeral alone.

Could I just asked you whether yes, it was stunning of course was and very popular more than 32 million people tuned in at some point on Monday to the BBC but if we look more broadly the period of mourning.

Do you think journalism lost out to ceremony? No, I don't and I would have exactly what Tina said about the Olympics

The impact on the Host country the corruption that will be about at the moment, but you wouldn't do it while the Olympics are on and I think that's interesting parallel the BBC to exaggerate by saying is a little diamond, but we know that this government pension is not enough to the sea and the BBC play pretty much of a blinder what we should remember is I suspect a lot of us have BBC One watch Radio 1 6 had to navigate this and they could easily have fallen over and I gather that easy decisions to make like not having the start of Strictly Come Dancing do you show Paddington the movie with the BBC flex on quite a lot of its platforms in terms of the content it show when you think how many different patterns is present or not?

It's range of radio stations and local radio stations the fact that hasn't really been a single item which has been held up as a kind of catastrophic BBC mistake is a huge test for your organisation.

I mean we are in the Rams by the way don't forget Holly Willoughby being chastised Grylls being chastised the smiling near the catapult so you know the people can easily become tabloid fodder for messing up and I I just I hold my positional I completely understand the nuances of our of the other guessed that the BBC play the weekly straight, bat this was no vent it started with the death of Her Majesty mended with her intern so first of all.

There's the I'm now to go to beginning to form and Tina and Ed Jose voice this narrative that last 10 days.

Set the time for this debate we can have it afterwards.

There's a danger in that because a dangerous is that the last 10 days was a national moment and if certain for excluded from key national moments and this is disproportionately Scottish people disproportionately Welsh people disproportionately people of colour if their views and opinions are disproportionately excluded from the National moment in the saying implicitly and what they were doing it deliberately but you're not really you haven't really cost that national moment and then when the national moment is finished will bring you back in that's kind of the implicit argument begin and it's not just saying I've heard it from other places as well that yes for the last 10 days.

When was really nationally important.

We sideline you was sideline the diversity.

After the national moment we bring back the diversity unfortunately diversity and inclusion doesn't actually work that way we have to have Diversity inclusion in all its messiness at the most important times not at the least important times.

What would you say to that and also I suppose on the specific case of the BBC it is there a kind of special case when it comes to a voice in the monarchy for The Corporation and all that kind of different Expectations for the National forecast time where you don't confront the uncomfortable as a journalist.

I find out a very difficult concept and the wrong concept and I think that Mark has gone who made this next year as well.

Is it when you start excluding those voices in communities.

They go elsewhere and often the places they end up going because they trust them all because I say versions.

Don't know maybe another time so it's about that but I have some sympathy.

I think the BBC's be under tremendous political pressure and it's had a very difficult relationship with royal family and so I think that this imperative to tow the line must have felt like at the kind of Exeter the BBC in the morning together in mutual existential anxiety actually at the moment.

They're both these patients having quite typical questions asked about the same the future so I do think that there is a sort of exceptionalism by also think they literally have to accommodate all of this in an elegant way and in the journalistic way, I woke up this morning to the literally one of Putin's advisors shout

It was almost like we've had 10 days that you're getting up quite late, but they're really important things happening in the world right now and I think that we we should have loud a little bit of space voice is also no recognition of the important things are happening right now going to bring you know you're not just a conservative peer you're also very senior at the BBC for nearly 10 years advisor very speedy German I'm sure you have insights here.

I was just about this point about not hearing from voices different kind of Voices and opinions and the last 10 days.

I thought one of things which was quite striking about the BBC's coverage was the fact that there was quite a lot of diversity on screen and on air and different people who in different contexts do represent.

Perspective historians or rice or Sunday 11th programme yeah exactly and Mark drakeford and Nicola Sturgeon interview elected people or other people who are renowned spokesman, who Express differences I mean so it wasn't there wasn't that sort of kind of diversity and I do appreciate it and share your what's all this was going on there are the big world events happening like the events in in Ukraine and someone and there was a moment.

Where is not hearing anything else did change and that was that was good.

I think you're busy corrected itself at that point.

When the Queen Mother died when I was working at the BBC then I mean the BBC did not get that right in the way in which it covered the Queen Mother's death at that time and was quite rightly criticised for it.

This was too much too little people work at the time.

I mean it was it was not enough and that they had your the the way in which the death of Queen Mother was a no.

It wasn't done in a suitably respectful way and you know I remember I was sat in board meetings afterwards and listening to controllers saying that you have you there wasn't this is a widespread support and respect the monarchy now is there was I was in Canada and it was huge news in Canada I remember with me very nicely.

I hope onto you know what I'd like to talk about now, which is it what we can understand from the coverage not just about how we see ourselves, but how the world sees us.

Do you think the media?

The funeral has changed how festival had a British Public sees the country magazine.

I only have an answer for Marcus I completely accept the point is making their communities in this country would have felt very excluded from this these events and they won't change their view of our country and I am I'm afraid it's like so if you had all this, where are United country and you know Scottish independence is going to disappear overnight.

I don't believe that for a minute and you know we're back as normal in space.

I don't think it's fundamentally change people's view of the country and I think King Charles will sink or swim based on his performance as our money.

I thought that the states you it was it's gratifying to the British psyche British exceptionalism hundreds of countries around the world did do wall-to-wall coverage of state funeral I spoke to people.

Denmark Spain so that was great and to be improved in terms of a marketing campaign for the UK you know we haven't talked about Westminster Abbey rolling all absolutely stunning I can imagine the average American think about where they're going to go in the summer would be thinking I'd love to go and see whether Queen's funeral is on how many national self-delusion I think Piers Morgan write an article today saying everything was going wrong before the queen died and then with her passing.

We turned our attention away from the negatives and focus instead on the Prophecy remember that what made Britain great again of Westminster Abbey and invite big Rollers is about how the world looks like.

American perspective actually contemporary interest in the British Monarchy comes through but is the narrative around Diana the interview that Meghan Markle the Crown it actually comes to this pixelized British history and the first place in Germany and did the funeral broadcast and all that did it change however you'd I think the funeral is 6 action and there was something that was really the highlight and so many people I think he was 50% on the day for for broadcasting the funeral in Germany public broadcasters, but I thought it was interesting and quite striking and telling was how the king King Charles was presented in Germany and how many questions were actually ask about him and if you remember on the Saturday doing the acclimation he did this very rather rude gesture of being very impatient about some inkpot standing.

On the table and I had he didn't see if she in the UK and that was a main thing and leaseback in Germany and people are very intrigued what this thing is it's like, what is he going until his image outside Britain is so much influenced by the chapter of Diana and her death and scandals around that and I think I'm here it was again.

I do understand that but 10 days.

I was really missing a bit more for focus of what is coming and what kind of thing is he going to be and Marcus just the end.

I mean what message.

Do you think the last 10 Days holidays whatever has sent out about Britain to the world unlike Tina and I'm not politician.

So I'm really don't think I'm qualified to answer that question what I can say is that my concern is that the young people in Wales 80% I'm don't want continuation of the monarchy.

What is their relationship with the BBC the Communities who don't support the monarchy? What is their?

After those 10 days and that's my concern is not a problem.

Can I keep on having 328? It's more just how do we ensure that we've and national Media continue to have strong links with the diverse range of opinions and communities throughout the UK do you think please send out a really positive message about Britain's the world.

I think we put on display as I said at the start of the best of us really and and I think it's been a fantastic showcase I mean what you just picking up on what Marcus is.

Just said the two breakpoints.

I would say is that I think it's important that the BBC having done so well over last 10 days doesn't try and think that therefore removed any justification for a debate about its future and all the challenges that it faces and this is this is a moment to you know step up.

It's not a moment.

Hope that everybody now think you're marvellous and we can just have been left to get on with it and I think to the point about diversity audit for sure the BBC needs to serve everybody everybody page also must never forget the people who have been so pleased with this coverage of the last 10 days.

Cos they to feel after that they're not understood and not properly represented on the BBC these days most of the people on the radio now.

I'm nodding at that point and that is a good moment to end it.

Thank you so much for all my guests to Marcus Ryder author of black British lives matter to Baroness Tina Stowell from the House of Lords medications and digital select committee Lord vaizey former culture secretary Emily bell from Columbia University graduate school of journalism and Stephanie Bolton from developed, that is all we have time for today.

Thank you so much for listening.