Read this: 17/12/2021 Radio 4 Feedback

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts In Radio 4 darts coverage falling apart has been loosed upon the word I was very disappointed with the screenshot program, which I imagine is designed to replace the film programme would I absolutely love in feedback this week? I'll be talking the man who is responsible for a raft and new art commissions and ask him.

Why did you get rid of the film program and will Oscar out of your comfort zone listeners to tell us what they think about one of Dan Clarkes major Radio 4 Series Jon Ronson's things fell apart extremist views and let them kind of you know speak for themselves and we could make our own judgement on that they listen again find out later in feedback.

This autumn issue of revamping about programming on BBC Radio 4 with the live art series front roextended 245, S3 new regular arts films and music star also been introduced this cultural life screenshot and add to playlist and the person responsible for this is Dan Clark who's the commissioner of these programs I talked to him earlier last in first.

This is a lot of changes at once while now was the right moment to revamp these front been extended as you said so it has walk faster now to do index arts journalism has more capacity for Life performance it has more capacity for Christmas review all things that we felt we wanted to beef up on Radio 4 in terms of the new strands will be really wanted to do here was to respond to the great changes that have gone on in the ways that people consume film and music over the last 20-years.

Revolution has transformed in many ways the access to what's out there and now we have at the touch of a button access to the whole of film and music well the last two of our out of your comfort zone Lisa Gilbert from sale and Tony Kinsella from Salford both in Greater Manchester to review another program downclock as commissioned that's the current series of things fell apart presented by John Ron have you gone by asking Lisa just to get a sense of how listening habits? What would be her top 3 programmes? Well, I have to say a good readers Harriett Gilbert being a book lover probably also less and also from our own correspondent and turning off well like a boat radio 4 listings of worship at the altar of the Desert Island Discs by the Radio 4 comedy play Mark steels in town and I really enjoyed the what's so funny about series where they had John Cleese talking about Fawlty Towers Ricky Gervais on The Office quite recently on Radio 4 comedy we asked.

Mr something very serious Indies and episode of things fell apart on radio for $1,000.

It was written and presented by Jon Ronson now despite your birthing Radio 4 listings.

You can come across this one possibly because it goes out all we still going out at 9, am at least how would you describe the program explain why it's all about don't quite know where to start with this one as it was an absolute epic.

It's was a look at a filmmaker and his dream of becoming a Hollywood filmmaker, but on route to That Dream he inadvertently played an absolutely huge role in The evangelical church and views on abortion which led to some absolutely devastating situations that happened in America in light of that.

I'm in princess is interested.

Would it cause origin stories which we compared to the son of you put a stone in the water and you'll see the ripples and in this case you was trying to trace back the explorers presents to a particular incident.

Do you think he convinced you that there was a direct line between the filmmaker and his father was evangelical of course and Culture was particularly over abortion in the United States that goes towards the end of the Reverend rusty Thomas who described the Godfather of everything that he believed in and I think you know everything is like you said there was a lovely politic introduction about pebbles being thrown into a pond and how the ripple spread out until it ended with her a bullet ricochet and around the kitchen in Buffalo New York you set up marathon skillfully so yes, I was completely within the whole journey.

It's a story that I've never heard before but I was absolutely ripped and fascinated by play me the programme title underneath that the thousand dollars.

Me sleeping well, not even misleading it was intriguing actually because they've been about absolutely anything just explain the Thousand Doors were device used by the filmmaker to children are foetuses have been aborted and to bring that home dramatically but didn't get that away until it away into the program.

They didn't actually the image that bow in my mind when they started talking about that particular film 1000 dolls and the clip just you can see how that visual would grab people's something like that would stay in their minds obviously things did fall apart because that was the catalyst if you like in the second series of directorial flourishes really went for it.

Have a ghostly children with their faces painted white wondering the earth like melancholy French mines as an anti-abortion.

Standing rock in the Dead Sea in Israel surrounded by 1000 dolls 1080 toy babies spread across the Landscape as far as the bacon Under the Sun fans of the story.

Are you friends with the presenter Jon Ronson remind me a little bit of Louis Theroux he was very much is old man and the gun identity but what Louis Theroux is brilliant at is responding genuinely and being interesting what people got to say and there was a moment when he said so the full Stadium became half-full and Mr Schaefer said he was genuinely shocked that you could tell invoice that you couldn't quite believe that big impact as they dispatch it about him that makes people open up which is really effective least he's also said that elsewhere that wasn't going with the list of questions prepared.

He's just responds didn't have to strengthen this it was a strength because you got the feeling he was genuinely following this store.

Well, he was perfect for this narrative his voice is quite mesmerizing as well a bit tales of the Unexpected quality to it as well, which I found fascinating and just perfect for telling this kind of story and Tony I do think you could a lot of these documents as you can sense whether the maker of it.

Is you know what side are on in this case abortion was at the centre.

Could you tell which side he was on or did he managed to remain sufficiently detach to let you make up your own mind he was sufficiently tax give up on my only minor criticism of it.

I felt there was only one side of the story told until the very end when the Reverend rusty topless came on so they called operation America and he came out with some quite.

What's the point of this Mr feminist protesters east Coast subs and I'd like to hear someone it's like the policy thing when it stops.

Being heard on the BBC News programs, and I would like to see the little bit more posts by their own petard.

I think it's too much of the Liverpool side of the story and I would like to have heard the extremist let them speak for themselves and we can make our own judgement on that note intriguing about this program.

He said I think Lisa B Stephen Tony but please don't particular you wouldn't have come across it.

Would you because you're it's at 9 in the morning on Radio 4 and you're doing something else.

I would not have come across this at all and well.

Had it not been for this program.

I would have missed out entirely on this particular Siri because it's right up my street definitely under Tony presume you've been at work.

I may have come across it but the title didn't really tell me why it was so does a very good chance that are to me like Lisa I very much intend to track down what else has been done as part of this series well, I don't need to ask you then whether you're a bit comfort zone's you worms and where you can listen to another episode you are.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I'm listening to that with racing downclock one of Radio 4 factual commissioning editors and indeed responsible for the commission do you put on anything the Jon Ronson brings to affect do you know what I see this one came from us.

We were interested in exploring the cultural so we went to John and ask him when he be interested in engaging with it and thankfully.

He wants which was brilliant news for us, because think he does have a unique approach and fantastically original and compelling storytelling style is a long time and the production of the producer Sarah Shabbir brilliant job in tracking down the stories that each episode of based around the weather is a heart condition.

I think it was something be felt was needed to be felt that at a time where the debates over people's beliefs and values seem to becoming ever more toxic we felt it was an important commission to find a way of explore.

What is in John Robinson gets his people to talk? Is it this sort of phone? I Eve approach? She she looks very yummy sounds quite simply sounds as if I've no issues myself, but it is you just disguises.

I don't know whether John was accept that his phone.

I know I think he actually depression that he started his seriously commissioned anyone who spends so much time and he's this one of the word intricate with me once that he he likes to tell intricate stories and you have to spend an awful time understanding and researching them and he also them in a pure Spirit of curiosity so interested in people and he's so interested in understanding their motivations and crosses work the BBC and for others I think that's the main hall you drop an intricate somebody who was Ted rather simple some friends out of his life for want of a nail the shoe was lost one of the shoe.

The stories relevant, but there's a whole lot of other causes going on but in this narrative.

You're just focusing on one do you accept it away.

It's oversimplifying the causes of some of these crucial is happening around.

I wouldn't say oversimplifying them.

I think this is a specific approach.

It's an approach.

That is trying to take specific moments and understand the role, they played I mean of course at the moment another things playing to everything that happened culturally and politically I don't think John for a minute with think that wasn't the case they said you'd heard anything out of your comfort zone future that you would like to have little more from more people who disagree perhaps with the Broadfield but I think actually hearing Tony what he seemed to be saying is that you wanted to hear from just more voice is generally because you wanted to or from the anti-abortion side as well as the side in favour of abortion rights and I would say is that it was actually quite unusual episode this because it was told very much through the voice of 1.

The voice of Frank Schaeffer and there was a reason for that which is that he had a very very strong locusts in the story.

He made his films with his father had a unique vantage point and then the rest of the series they do tend to be more voices and more perspectives in this one the perspectives were there, but they were in the scripts and they're in short eclipse because of the fact that the thrust the story was told through one that are you mister programmer and ask them to listen to Radio 4 listen because of 9:00 and partly because there are working when the program went on and secondly because the title clever title b8es buying things fell apart is it's all about the centre cannot hold near Anarchy is loosed upon the world etc etc, but and the title of thousands of people perhaps there was too clever if you want people find this you've got to go out and and Teller very clearly what it is that I thought this is a really interesting point actually just to start with the scheduling 9 is actually is one of our biggest the most prominent slots outside the slots Wetherby news programs like today sit and

Documentaries that it was real vote of confidence in the series that we put it there and actually lots of things like this pretend to go later and in the morning when the early afternoon, so it was in a Providence lots and lots and lots promotion and marketing on sound so it's a shame to me that it was still difficult people to find the night.

I'm going to go away and think about how we can make things more easy to find because we want to course as many people as possible to listen to the title.

Yeah, I mean Tony mentioned that pathetic introduction to the program and I quite like the fact that such a treat it is very clear in the subtitle which is strange tales from the what the series is about and the subjective nature of the title makes its I think interesting and intriguing titles are always difficult there always difficult and we offer locks in Tenby about what to call things and how on the nose they should be well before we go onto the second half of that interview in which will be discussing some of dance latest hearts transfer to let us know your

At the first part or anything else to do with BBC Radio and podcasts.

This is how you get in touch you can send an email to feedback at bbc.co.uk the address is feedback PO Box 67234 London se1p 4ax you can follow activity on Twitter by using at BBC R4 feedback or you can call us and leave a phone message on 03345 standard landline is apply, but it could cost more and some mobile networks all those details are on our website well done took one of Radio 4 factual commissioning editors.

He still with me is commission a member of new strands this autumn and down one of the most controversial decisions.

You've made is the cancel the phone program and replace it with screenshot first of all the cancelling of the film programme a lot of people did.

Like that decision so why did you make it to start with on this? I understand of course I understand that lots of people and not going to be always happy when we bring very long running programs to then the film programme on Radio 4 for nearly 20 years and have been huge changes in that time in the way that we consume films and other screen culture and we just felt that it was the right time to refresh things and it's worth saying that we have obligations under Ofcom to tender certain programs and because of the changes that gone on in the way we can film and other changes that have happened in the last 20-years we felt that now is the right time to do that in this case where's goodbye then to Antonia Quirke and Francine stock and hello to Mark Kermode and Ellen and the new series is called screenshot.

Yes mechanophilia is a real thing but the films are using it to talk about something else so in the case of John knows you said it's a mother daughter thing it's

That somebody falling in love with something and being accepted whatever that thing is whether it's a fairground ride or you know somebody they fall in love with mechanophilia as I understand it isn't me about machines.

It's about humans and what their relationship to other humans might be lacking or what they've desiring that they can't get for Knowsley ships, so yeah, but I'm starting to think that will mechanic files on some level from Devon I think that programs and program presenters that rely on wide-ranging and or in-depth knowledge and narrow path between being interesting on the one hand and on the other seeming smugly self satisfied with the opportunity to show off what they know that letter attitude.

Leaves me feeling distanced and disengage as though my only role is to admire and be impressed so far.

I feel a little like this with.

Ian Rice I was very disappointed with the screenshot program, which I imagine is designed to replace the film programme which I absolutely loved the comparison between the two why alter an excellent program so that program and screenshot when dealing with the same film or reflecting the opening of a particular film.

What's the crucial difference in the screenshot with deal with it in some ways and you may be surprised to hear this.

I think the some the principles of the film programme will remain you know we're always going to be talking to interesting actors and interesting interesting people involved in films for example in the first episode of screenshot and elements who was one of the stars in the original West Side Story and also B in the new film so a lot of that spirit expertise and passion and insight will be retained.

I'd say where we're going to be taking a slightly different approaches.

We going to try and bring a lot more history and context and to

Understand how the films and the connected and to use that context to Sullivan luminate, how films work on what they're trying to do the other thing I think positive fact that there's now a lot more cross-fertilization between film and television drama trying to bring in some expertise around data as well.

Just ways people are increasingly washing the sort of things people talk about getting excited.

There is a danger dance classes in there with all of these programs 53rd made in London and had two presenters that people who live elsewhere to access to a lot of the films and song that you talk about feel excluded do you think there's a danger in this? I would dearly dearly hope not and the absolute intention behind this program is for them to look for all of the Radio 4 audience contend that the great access we know whether it's on something iPlayer to the range of films television means that these.

Is that happened in the digital landscape affect everyone to everyone that was mechanophilia pregnant by the way thanks for never understood before love sexual of machines.

It would seem to be any was focused around a film called 210 which few people will have seen that is not always a problem.

That's a slightly different point which is that of course we review and talk about cinematic releases like today in that the people have to go to the cinema to see me always done that and we always look very talk about books the people may not have read and I'm always encouraging the teams that made these programs and it's an absolute principle of Oz to make sure that when we talk about things that people watch we have to make those things accessible and open and understand with an interesting to everyone part of our purpose is to review things and to talk about specific works and books and as we're going to be the case of.

Read them absolute intention is to make it as interesting and insightful to all this as well.

They've read or seen the film or book then commission which is the feedback listers to go down rather than going down very well is the new music programme add to playlist co-hosted by Cerys Matthews and Jeffrey are the presenters and guest build a playlist by track connecting each track to the next with her knowledge of musicology and music history was not entirely sure about the industrial is a banjo listen to the whole song it definitely call Martin I wasn't sure what to make of add to playlist of first but I am impressed.

The choice of music is wonderfully varied and unpredictable but there is not any sense of purpose but of mischief the presenters in the team behind them bring excitement and amusement to the Lister thank you whichever braves gave the note to this truly original program, so don't argue with the brave soul.

Well.

I can't take full credit you know big commissions like this involves lots of people but I mean that comment and we have had lots of really really strong response about to play some people wonder why there is a programme about music on Radio 4 his Jane Clark if I want Cerys Matthews and music I'll go to Radio 6, but this is not what I want from Radio 4 and it seems like a major cop-out to schedule this program.

I feel betrayed and yes alarms that this again and eat away at the usual great programmes on Radio 4.

What's the promat music doing on Radio 4 one thing? I would say to change the we've always had intelligent and hopefully.

Play talking about musical Radio 4 we have some music which has been on for a long time.

It is very popular to have master tapes which explored the album soul that says that had to play this is talking intelligently and within sight about music and in a way.

I think that it wasn't that we didn't have a lots program explored what music work and how it works and where it comes from the way that we explore and analyse poetry or books or anything else and safe for me.

It was a gap year and the thing for me.

That is absolutely vital for this program is an insight that understanding and go under the bonnet of what makes music work and the great think of me about how to play this is that it has his combination of soda musicology and history and context as well as the music which provide something that I think is unique and I think you wouldn't get on music network to get the balance right between torque and music you need to illustrate.

But you have to have enough space to have real inside there's always a tension between the two which is quite difficult to resolve you wanted to programmes.

Don't you that program then you need after program much longer which players that you talked about if we have to stay that would be brilliant.

You know playlist everything that I know that I have picked up so many new things to listen to from it.

So you have that I agree that every day is going to love it.

It's not funny things on Radio 4 and I do feel that it's got a magic about it that makes you understand things but also lift the spirits only people said to me that they will be another series on that yes, yes, but I understand this as always fly suspicious.

They think they really are fighting with a younger audience.

Is this part of the strategy or would you have the new said anyway know if this isn't for any particular age? Yeah? I think the latter on this one add to playlist is on on a Friday evening on Radio 4.

It's there for a broad Radio 4 audience.

What are the things which is very interesting is the kids and that's something.

We never would have anticipated and a lovely idea that family listening, but we have not commissioner specifically to get a younger audience of course you know if music is a gateway for a new generation of Radio 4 listeners to come to us and that's fantastic, but this is definitely intended for a big audience will finally although in most of the can't we've had been very proving about the changes.

You've made Martin Palmer has it concern about arts coverage generally wouldn't beating about the bush the Moses agendas.

Incessantly and insistently promoted and perpetuated by all BBC arts programmes in say the last 3 or 4 years has caused me to switch off much more than

I used to I find I've also lost interest in art and the Arts in general because of this affect the distresses me as I've been listening to and participating avidly in such material for well over 45 years to understand Martin farmers concern.

They have said you're so preoccupied with the new that you may not be giving sufficient credit to the valuable and that which I'm really sorry to hear that my skin feels like that, but I don't actually recognise that characterization as we've mentioned and actually on you interview Strand this cultural life old-fashioned long form interview with cultural figures.

We have a huge range of programs exploring culture many of which will be impossible to catch prices being is this week for example we have faith in music the new series presented by the Catholic composer James Macmillan exploring the faith influence of great composers the first one's about Mozart

Moving pictures by the great producer Cathy Fitzgerald which explores a masterpiece each week and you can go on the internet and have a look at the picture house.

It's playing with Williams and Kirsty Wark exploring the literature of Scotland and Harris influences history and me none of these series and programs own anyway motivation.

I'm absolutely determined to cover the whole history about the country waster serious as well as being lively and Leicester Square the commissions that have you getting any more coming up in the near future or have you done for the big changes have been in there is one thing witches to coincide with the centenary of the publication of the James Joyce Ulysses we've got a season exploring across culture which is going to be happening in February so I'm excited about our thanks to want a video Force commissioner that does Dan Clark

Skip for this week next week will be talking to Fran Unsworth the retiring BBC director of news and current affairs Alaska about impartiality the culture Wars and the future of Germany at the time when many seem to think that the worst of all of passionate intensity do please let us have your comments and questions for her go and Kirsty from The Archers will tell us what she thinks of Linda Snell until then keep on keeping safe goodbye.