Read this: How a Political Story Cuts Through

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts hello, this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 hello this week.

We want to know what makes a political story matter.

I'm always makes a particular story however important feels at the time soon be forgotten.

What sort of the BBC Steve Rosenberg is remarkable interview with the President of Belarus Alexander lukashenko.

Look inside of the change of editor at the Daily Mail and how much influence he will have over the stories that stay with us and we need to talk about Peppa Pig and so most of you saw the prime minister's speech at the cbi.

It was an eventful of fair Let's Begin the program by quickly speaking to anouska Astana deputy political editor at ITV news.

I knew skirt.

I assume ITV covered Peppa Pig

Watching as we all were likely questions a little clips overall broadcast you will remember but are you ok? And is that you can get in the house of commons and a little bit more detail later in the program the consequences of that speech will do so with the help of the postage oat Wyman the speech created lot of coverage, but shows going to help us gauge if it might matter in the long term to before that also weather today is Katie razzall my co-presenter on the media show ok tickets.

Hello nice to be here now.

You've been speaking to the new culture secretary Nadine dorries.

I wonder what her priorities were when she outlined them to you.

You know she says have priority is widening access to culture and sport 2 kids from the kind of deprived background she comes from which he claims is now the lens through which the department under her must take every decision but aside from that.

There's a lot in her at the top are to media related ones the BBC licence fee what it will be for the next five years and whether to privatise Channel 4 she's in discussions right now with the BBC about that future discussions on charter renewal and whether the BBC licence fee will exist at all in the future and then when I met her I did detect a bit of a change in tone when I eat in the sense that she was keen to say she wants to survive and that it is the best British of course will know she's been supercritical of the BBC in the past and indeed and her role for being too posh to left-wingers.

She sees it to woke and I thought that decision.

Come soon with reports that the licence fee will be frozen for 2 years and turn to channel for her predecessor Oliver dowden seem to favour privatisation much to Channel Falls alarm.

She claims she hasn't decided 60000 consultation responses had to go through and it will be abusive parish had decided that we doing those so you know there's no websites for them there at the moment and on top of that she's overseeing this bill going through the moment about safety online so I think about before we talk further about the code to sector let's listen to Nadine dorries telling you about her plans to tackle online harm with a new bill looking after considering making somebody with an organisation like Facebook or meta or your rebranding doesn't work by the way that one of those responsible for something we are considering including innisfail.

They've had notice.

They got fan warning this bill is coming advised by your terms and conditions now.

Your harmful algorithms now 20000 engineers that you're going to put onto the metal that put them on making Facebook a place which is safe for young people to go to now of course Facebook with disagree with the court of secretaries characterization of its company.

It said recently our technology is having a big impact on reducing.

How much hate speech people see and before we speak again.

That's also bringing Chris Williams business editor at the Telegraph Chris good.

Have you on the media show I wonder what you make of the culture secretary plans to take on companies like Facebook for a number of years the UK will be installed first country in the world to attempt something like this and it's supposed to say that the regulator Ofcom is taking on his powers is itself unsure about how it's going to work and whether it will work at the moment.

What proposed a mountain not much more than the power to tell tell people off.

Facebook a country that has the UK is it going to struggle to have an impact so there's a big question about how and whether this will work will have any impact government seems as a response element that can sort everything out now as you know Chris and of course Katie nose to the culture secretary also spoke at the Department of Culture media and sport select committee.

It was a lengthy afera wonder what the both of you would pick out as being the most significant moments of it first think that when was appointed.

There was some surprising and raised eyebrows and I think you got some work to do to get repaired.

She said is taxpayers money to look after money involved in that situation.

Basically cheese news Brief and we don't really know what we're going to get from now.

Are you Katie having I wonder whether the most significant thing was what she didn't know what she did in the sense that you lots of answers.

Why won't be drawn.

No, it's too early to say all the process is ongoing so I can't talk about that.

It will that's good.

He's going around the media regulator of Cornwall the future Channel 4 and much else she wants to suggest that she's open-minded about all these issues, so of course people are scrolling through her social media for Cleveleys and we know she has been very vocal on social media in the past more broadly.

I think what was significant was her demeanor in front of the committee.

You know this is a woman doesn't really seem to care about what people think he doesn't apologize who is Frankfurt it makes a divisive figure.

It makes a polarizing figure what that means.

I have to say ok nice to see you in case you're gonna be back on the media show next week Chris you're staying with us for love this addition and those of you listening.

You can hear the whole of Katie's interview in the stories.

Bonus Media Show podcast via BBC sounds either via browser or via the BBC Sounds app that next on the TV show let's bring Steve Rosenberg the BBC's Moscow from Moscow Steve good to speak to you.

Thanks.

Very much was invited you on because you've done a quite extraordinary interview with the President of Belarus Alexander lukashenko, it's been going on social media.

It's been widely hailed in a range of reasons one of them being you did the whole thing in Russian I have to say I found it all completely mesmerizing.

I've got to ask you.

When did you first think requesting to spend half an hour with him? You know what I put my my first request went to the Alexander lukashenko.

It was a 1999 92 years ago.

I made the first it was the no came back as more than two decades, but basically this time round we went to Belarus to cover the the migrant crisis.

That's taking place on the border of Belarus and

Poland several thousand migrants are trying to get into to the EU and Alexander lukashenko has been accused by the west of the country Belarus to use his country to try to get into Europe to try and put pressure on your pressure on the EU as basically revenge EU sanctions he denies that but this is one of the things which has kept him and put him in the headlights over the last year and a half thing back to August of last year.

He was abusive reading presidential election a brutal Crackdown on his critics and opponents tens of thousands of people were detained then he was accused of piracy in the case of the Ryanair passenger jet which basically forced to land in Minsk so you can arrest one of his creditors are now being accused of weaponizing migrants, so are we put in a request to interview?

Can expect to get a yes, but anyway when tell us about what it was like when you arrive to do the interview we had to set up all the equipment all the cameras and lights the day before in the palace of independence, then we came back the next day and the belarusian state television was there a quiet atmosphere Mr lukashenko was on his way.

He could have walked into the room sat down there wasn't much more talk, then I said I'm you know my Russian is not native best.

He said I'm glad you're going to do the interior in my language and off we went and very quickly he was trying to put me down.

He said don't be dumb and he usually The Familiar form in Russian there's one form polite form for you and there's a familiar formerly used with the million.

Which I took as an insult basically, so he was clean trying to get one up on me.

I think before we talk about it any further Steve let's hear some of the interview whiskers Belarus have been stopping migrants with that now.

They themselves the migrants too bad to me in Belarus is open to them cos cos I told you you are not going to detain migrants on the boarder holder at the border and if they keep coming from now on I still won't stop them because they're not coming to my country, but yours the west stop talking to us and working whether if you don't want to then fine.

We'll sort this problem out ourselves as best we can birds interview with present location going to have to say Steven I was watching it my mouth as hanging open on occasions because I couldn't believe how Frank he was being we you surprised what you know I know he's

Person but it was fascinating having this dialogue with him and he expected to be interrupted is not used to journalist interviewing him and that's what I didn't want the interviews become was a platform for Mr lucashenko this controversial leader is not recognised as the president of the European Union of Britain or America I didn't want to become a platform for him to just put it on a cross is view so I had to present on human rights in it in Belarus on relations with Russia and some of the things she didn't like you got that he got irritated when I boot up then maybe you could tell that and the west unity blame the west everything I use the west as an excuse to you as the west it was almost like he saw you as a representative of not just the UK but.

All western countries became the personification of the West in His Eyes yeah, I was the one who was funding the the anti-government protests last year.

I was the one who was attacking Belarus I tried to stay calm as possible while opposite me this leader was getting more and more angry and it was the Russians not my native tongue, but I I I did especially while I think yourself very well on on that front I wonder if you had any journalistic doubts or where the people who are currants of president lukashenko in Belarus had doubts about the merits of giving him BBC News airtime did have doubts and suddenly when the news came out on Friday that the BBC has recorded an interview with Alexander lukashenko before the actual interview the contacts have been put out.

It wasn't criticism of the BBC

Sitting down and recording an interview with this particular person and certainly some of the criticisms came from the belarusian opposition but once our interview the 24-minute bush an hour 33 minutes has gone and the interview has been pretty much welcome and well-received.

Has it been watched in Rhoose can people see it interesting question because you can they can see it on YouTube that's not blocked but belarusian state television has put a completely different states in America they divided the interview into sections so the migration crisis relations with the EU political situation builders the edited together my questions, but one long question and then I have lots of lukashenko basically a monologue just talking so you didn't get the feeling that this was a

Interrupting in the belarusian state TV version does a lot of lucashenko Torquay which is not an accurate representation of what happened and anyone who actually see Elvis love the interview that is the accurate personal what happened.

There are two versions out there.

I wonder when you were in The Thick of this jousting with present location coman who is right at the centre of one of the most pressing him sharing stories in the world certainly of the last month we were aware the what you were recording was unusual was extraordinary would generate the kind of impact that it has since it's come not during the interview.

I was so focused on trying to make sure that things went well.

You know we have done preparation had a die-hard to prepare a great team with me to help me prepare yet.

My reducer will burn and be the cameraman McDonald we we we tried as hard as possible, but I was the one in the chair and I felt a fused responsibility have to say we didn't do this the ratings or anything like that.

I thought the responsibility there to try and put difficult questions as best I could to this controversial figure the try to show what kind of a person he was and not as I say not to allow it to become the Alexander lucashenko, show did in the belarusian state tv.

Vs.

There was nothing I can do about that.

I'm listening to you.

Steve is a new skirt deputy political editor ITV news and just give recently interview Boris Johnson you've interviewed many other high-profile figures to I wonder if when you're doing those in use you can gaze when one is going to be particularly high impact that will particularly resonate and making sure that they don't do that to talk really very very different absolutely.

Timer 10-minutes to go to this station at this time wait for the prime minister to jump up and down when you have 2 minutes to get on the next very short-term opportunities to get what he wants to talk about to talk about I really really wanted to ask them about standards and a little 3 minutes.

It was like what you want to feel quite out of place example.

But we do something but they want the answer to from the prime minister when we get the opportunity to ask questions to ask them so awkward and Steve before I let you go because I know you're in the middle of a very busy day speaking of awkward.

What would the atmosphere like once you wrapped it up.

It was strange after the interview.

I thought you was finished with 45 minutes or so and then the second interview Bugatti didn't leave so we recorded another 10 minutes and then we got up and you still don't believe you were chatting away and he said I'd let you know and I told her that I'm going to give it to me to the BBC and let him I said I'll send my best wishes to the BBC I don't know that's true what you said and don't be upset by the way things of garden you ask for the centre.

He seemed to think it has gone well for you which is quite interesting and they're not he walked fascinating Steve thank you.

Sharing the story behind the interview we really appreciate it and Steve Rosenberg join us live from Moscow you can find the full interview both on iPlayer and also on YouTube now Steve's interview as very much cut through though the degree to which a blimp add-on belarusian politics will see because of the way that look at shanko runs the country, but if we turn our attention to politics stories in UK let's consider how and why some of those stories have a lot more impact than others and we had a case study this week to speech at the cbi.

I'm sure most of you listening heard it inform the prime minister lost his place for over 20 seconds.

He Compares himself to Moses at one point and he also said this yesterday.

I went as we all must to Peppa Pig World and if you've been to Peppa Pig World who's been in Peppa Pig World enough many people have been to Peppa Pig

That cbi event but let's assess whether this is a political storm that will pass or something that may have longer resonance and it still staying with this as his Chris Williamson the Daily Telegraph and Joe Time Is Here founder and director of deltapoll.

I'm also told Joe you've been dubbed the housewives favourite poster by The Times which is an interesting Monica but let's Stick to the story here help.

Help me and everyone assessed this Peppa Pig story I got a huge amount of attention, but in the long run does it matter a when looking at any of these such events in English between Turning Point true make a difference that lasts in the polls and those moments that made produce a spike in one way or the other a good don't actually make a lasting difference to do things because it's the long-term trends interested in here and I would say that yes this Peppa Pig incident.

PJ day for boys Johnson is certainly not the first time that you will remember the number of police officers in 2019 was launched you separate speeches in the same way because he thinks always have the potential to make a difference and so we're on the lookout for what really makes a change from very few things do so it sounds like I should distinguish between the story which cuts through.

Send me a story we're all aware of and one which has impact which is a story which shifts are we feel really make a difference to voters next week next month or particularly when they arrive the right for the Ballot Box win the next election arrived and they really are very few of those because we look back over over the coronavirus when coronavirus is obviously a massive Turning Point for the public opinion, but we've had various different things gone we had Dominic Cummings and his speech in the Rose Garden at Downing Street might have to think of it this way if that happened with the poles really being a statistically significant difference at different weather on now.

It's difficult to argue that they would but when it comes something like the vaccine campaign really did make a lasting impact that has lasted for all the way through now.

Play Lost into the future even that lasts until the next election it remains to be seen instead.

It's about how these stories come together to form Broad narratives in the Minds of voters about the way they think about politicians who they can trust who they think is affected and they think it's called right thing by then you can help me because you had a very senior role of the Guardian you now hold a very senior role at ITV news is which forms of Media decide those broad and narratives that Joe is describing.

What is the most influential is it the print press? Is it TV how do we gave this PC on TV on the radio? Will you be interested in?

Bread in Hartlepool election when there was a lot of focus on sleeve and it didn't want on the doorstep that this is possible contacts and a bigger story and then that negative I want to give you an example.

Yes it matters but yeah well the news channels for watching what's happening at cbi and some people watching it was when evening I'm a Celebrity to make fun of the prime minister.

I think I saw a Tweet from talk about when they talk about because over 10 million people allowed to sit up and pay that little bit more attention if you like and then goes on to the new policy results at that Ant and Dec could be a factor.

Williams from the Telegraph let's also talked about certain papers being a Factor because I knew she could talk about the Owen Paterson story a big part of the Owen Paterson story and its momentum with the Daily Mail is devoted the amount of coverage to it.

How do you assess the males impact on the fact the government ended up you turning on a range of front surround the Owen Paterson story overstay.

What you score at cbi and one of the reasons this cut through is the Prime Minister looking week in front of a home crowd essentially cbi should be an easy venue for Conservative Prime Minister speak and it was and that's what the what I think cut through was the the start of a narrative which is out of control and that's the kind of thing that changes people's perception of who the prime minister is.

What are the reasons I asked about the mail is that it's all change their and you're going to help me understand this Chris out as gone the Daily Mail editor Geordie Greig Ted Verity who was already editor of the Sunday is now editor of The Daily Mail and the Mail on Sunday and to make things even more intriguing the former editor of the male Paul Dacre is back as editor-in-chief of DMG Media which is the group The own the male titles MailOnline metro and deicer Chris it's all going on.

What's the story about business and about 1200 years ago call Dave her the 26-year the Mail on.

Fleet Street down and Jordi greater than said he's seen a more who makes friends.

Now in that in the meantime print Media is declining rapidly and is now the biggest paper in the country that has the biggest doesn't really matter anymore.

It's all about digital media now and Craig and putting a head in charge of two papers also Martin Clarke mail online to have a bigger role, and I think that's what a lot of this is about this is quite interesting which is the company the public company controlled by Lord Rothermere that he is speaking to take a private because they're going to go through some drastic changes and it's so difficult to do that on the public market so bring pursuing the term and ship.com to extend steady the ship habitable and what's going to be a very Rocky period for that.

So I've only got about 20 seconds but to be cleared the

You may be a suggesting that Geordie Greggs attacks on the Owen Paterson story lead to him being removed.

It sounds like you're saying that's not the story at all times investment and organisation single story about please is not going to change direction of the company.

We can have to leave it there because that is it for today at a time on the media show many many thanks to all of my gas and air Astana deputy political editor head ITV News Joe twyman, co-founder and director of deltapoll Williams we just been hearing from the business editor at the Daily Telegraph we're also hearing my colleagues did Rosenberg the BBC's Moscow correspondent and a little bit earlier we were talking to Katie razzall my co-presenter the media show she's been speaking to Colchester secretary Nadine dorries.

Don't forget you can get the full interview as a podcast from the media show but for me Ros Atkins for the moment goodbye.