Read this: 12/11/2021 Radio 4 Feedback

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts hello has cop26 comes to a climax in Glasgow this weekend should the copper be in campaigning mode is the BBC able to wake up it's listeners as the platitudes and green Washington politicians and corporations become ever more remote from the refutable energy reality driving and a breakdown before it is too late in feedback this week.

I lost the BBC's outgoing signs that did David shukman, what impartiality means when covering climate change and have it has been to get the subject onto the news agenda the materials when I did feel with a very small band of colleagues slightly lonely trying to apply this flag and keep it on the flag is undoubtedly flying I last David why he's leaving the BBC ship and did a Radio 3 programme designed to attract new audience.

Classical music managed to convert to a bar out of your comfort zone listeners, I probably would have switched off.

It was just learnt and talking about classical music on his own.

No I felt that I would have listened to her during anyone actually.

I thought he had a really good style and started on a discordant snooze find out whether it ends in relative harmony later in feedback.

Over the past 2 weeks cop26 has witnessed the coming together.

I needed 200 countries to attempt to reach the goal of zero carbon emissions by 2050 and a major reduction by 2030 in order to avoid a climate catastrophe success still seems far from a should following every twist and turn in Glasgow is the BBC Science editor David shukman to him down the line to his B&B on Wednesday morning shortly before you set off on the 20-minute walk to the conference venue and that began by asking him if this was a different sort of conference the most things they decided in advance and world leaders arrive for the photo call after the real decisions have been arrived at is this a conference where the unexpected could upset the best laid plans plans an awful.

Lot is unexpected as well is cots is the 10th I've been to have a dynamism of their own some stumbled and stutter Andrea

Make any progress at all and end with a sense of rancor and bitterness I can Copenhagen and 2009 are really very little was achieved others do better.

There's a the preparation a lot of diplomatic Goodwill and you do get a result like Paris in 2015 at the famous Paris agreement others tend to be incremental some pro-choice made but never the sweeping ambitious transformation of the global economy that scientists and so many others say is necessary and I think we'll probably not in that camp nothing but going to see some agreements probably on relatively limited areas, but possibly a positive signal sent out to the rest of the world that the direction of travel is insights that might eventually leads to the most dangerous.

Temperature is being avoided a real sense that this is the greatest problem that the world faces or

Get a real sense reluctance from some participants to face up to it's a very mixed bag.

I mean the science has never been clearer its staggering to have watched over the last 20-years.

How has moved from saying it was likely that human activity is having an impact on terms of driving up temperatures through to just a few months ago the UN climate panel saying it is now unequivocal that human activity is behind the rise in interpreters.

Nothing that is provided an important framing for people and in particular the scientific the only way to avoid the worst Rises in temperature is the global emissions by the end of this decade and has provided a template a deadline but I think has because mines but of course great many economies around the world the profusely depend on fossil fuel production thinking of the sound is the Russians and Sophie

Is the has been and is Andy hearing Glasgow now his foot attempt to slow everything done always couched in terms, of course we all want to join the process of trying to tackle climate change but and I think that but is what has always proved difficult well.

This is feedbag cancel the lots of butts from Alison and we got a member of questions for you and here's the first one it said from Daves cop26 fossil fuel industry has largest allocation at climate summit my interest as it seems obvious that when talking about the fossil fuel Industries those Industries would be involved editorial decisions like this suggested the BBC is taking a particular ideological stance place not the very definition of cancel culture.

Is this not counterintuitive in the wild fossil fuels company's business is the problem they also hold many of the Solutions as energy company.

Do Chapman I can understand why he might think that but I mean it's very very clear from my point of view that our job is to reflect the different arguments around this top.

I mean I see myself very much as a correspondent not a campaigner clearly the fossil fuel element of this story is incredibly important.

I thought that the fact that this thing done this work and found that the largest single delegation of collection of individuals representing fossil fuel interests was an important part of the coverage, but at the same time we've also featured interviews with leading figures in major oil and gas companies looking at their perspectives.

I mean the chief executive officer of shell was all over the waves around the same time.

I think it's important that we reflect a wide range of views on this clearly one of the targets in terms of what happens about climate change.

Howards tackle is what happens about fossil fuels and so clearly it's relevant to highlight weather fossil fuel interests are endeavoring to slow the question here from someone who's I think bit worried about what they says the BBC's tendency to focus on one subject at the expense of another is Richard Gere and I've been listening to a lot programmes on the BBC about cop26 and all the issues and ideas around climate change the content is both concerning and encouraging but there's a long way to go all the discussions on disappointed in the lack of talk about world population growth the most fundamental problem facing this planet and the underlying cause of climate change loss of diversity pollution over use of resources and waste do this be too little focus on the issue of population growth over the years.

We have tackled the topic of population.

Moroccan accused by those who are pushing that argument of sort of leaving it alone which isn't the case it has to be said that if you have a global population of 10 billion were all vegetarian and we'll fly they're going to have less of an impact and if you have a population of 1 billion who need extremely high carbon lifestyles and one of the themes of the reporting and recent years has the fact that it is a relatively small proportion of the world population who are actually responsible for most of the emissions and I think that's probably a more fruitful way to the language using reporting is important for this listener my question is why didn't you use cop26 as a background to challenge some of the sloppy language use about climate change Street such as the fragile Earth save the Planet as it is not planet Earth Bettws Funchal but many life forms including humans in my mind.

People need to hear terms like habitable uninhabitable support of ecosystems toxic ecosystems in order to be stimulated in thought and I think that's a great point.

I've been save the Planets is a useful easy but inaccurate shorthand, isn't it? It's the plan it's going to be fine where they were on it or not.

It is the habitability.

That's the key question I'm trying to find other forms of description.

I mean on the six oclock news last night.

I just said this is all about making the world a safer place to live on which I hope captain what the question is suggested because I think terminology is a major stumbling block in this field.

I mean I can't stand words sustainability.

I don't think even know what that really means no one's properly defined cop26 itself.

No one really knows what that mean.

I actually tried to avoid using it and I'll cover.

Should we just call it is the climate conference or the climate summit because I think the phrase cop26 bit awkward immediately raises questions of people's ears one listening was worried about what he identifies as complacent Michael prison, Cambridge given the scale of the crisis scientists.

Tell us face is the planet it is surreal that we continue to feel so careless and play something comfortable with it is the BBC able to wake up.

It's listeners as the platitudes and green washing and politicians and corporations become ever more remote from the year of youthful.

Energy reality Drive timer breakdown before it is too late David Chapman should you be campaigning? I'm very clear about that.

I think there's a a distinction to be drawn.

The traffic is really important between campaigning and reporting I mean genuinely if the world over the next 30 odd years was to cool down not if there's a cool spring or autumn.

In one part of the world, but if the planet has a whole what's the stock cooling down the BBC like everybody else should be reporting that I think it's the science different conclusions about what's happening report them.

So I think our task is to stick as closely as we can to the consensus science.

What are the best brands telling us about what's happening and to stick to but some people say sign said that because somebody questions the consensus so while on the one hand as you don't have to represent an argument as if the recall numbers are the side of whatever if the lone voice opening the orthodoxy doesn't find an outlet somewhere science word advance.

Will you go to make a distinction between people who do work over long period of time subjected to the meaning of their peers subject it to the rigour of selection of the major reputable journals as opposed to someone who just has a blog and says I've got the answer but won't say.

They're working outside scrutiny and I think that's where someone like me in my colleagues and come and see well hang on.

There is a difference between someone with a Blog he just thinks it is all wrong.

Send a great body of methodical work on the other side which does advance our understanding of how the planet John Rimmer I live in Wandsworth London failed overtime to change hearts minds and behaviours have made the eco story about rebellion more extreme politics etc BBC as it is not making its own editorial distinctions that does a campaigner and is on a joke to listen to if people are turned off by your coverage then you're feeling audience and the planet you've got a problem when people demonstrate their demonstrating to get you there to pay attention to get on the news if you cover them to a degree you're giving them what they want.

There was a timer for years back when Extinction rebellion try to block a the BBC arguing that it wasn't doing enough on climate change when I was turning up for work to cover climate change pointed this out to one of the contestants.

You could get in and eventually we had an interesting spirited discussion and then was allowed in.

It does present some really big challenges for example the recent wave of motorway blockages by insulate Britain if one goes to the core of their argument for years experts have been saying one of the things that has to happen if we want to tackle climate changes to waste less energy and one of the best ways to waste less energy is to improve the installation of our homes and this is a very very well established arguments and the evidence is there an all of the numbers are well known, but how do we cover that when the M25 is shut? It's a very very difficult balance destroy.

It's all blues shots the gates to cop26 in protest.

What do we do about that? I don't know what the answer is well.

While you been in your someone overcrowded bed breakfast in Glasgow things have been happening in Westminster brother different nature and these listings are concerned about the coverage given to Dagmar Western Edinburgh I'm concerned away that you're wall-to-wall coverage of Tory sleaze has lately displace that infinitely more significant area the issues raised and discussed by cop26.

There are still a few days left to correct this imbalance, please try Richard bulkeley.

Just because some people do not enjoy hearing the inconvenient truth about climate change it does not follow the BBC should cut down all references to it from where I stand the BBC is that last during the topic that provenance that it deserves with some very well tired and very lightens, please continue to provide.

Coverage on this vital subject and keep people informed on progress or lack of it following the Glasgow conference when you were coming out for the did you pray there wouldn't be any major stories to check coverage wants their story to get the most prominent showing for as long as possible is always going to be a competition to airtime and I'm always going to argue that my storage get the biggest billing.

It has been getting from and coverage be proud of what we've given to climate in recent times there were periods when I did feel with a very small band of Collins slightly lonely trying to try this flag and keep going and go through Wars and banking crises and all kinds of other price is a panda and still try to keep this agenda alive in terms of their time, but now yes that with the focus of all over the place with it and whatever happens in Westminster editors and not going to lose sight of this one.

Thank you very much will be coming back today a little later in the program to find out about his future as a person of the Planets but first do please let us know your thoughts about interview or anything else to do with BBC Radio and podcasts.

This is how you get in touch you can send an email to feedback at bbc.co.uk the address is feedback PO Box 67234 London se1p 4ax you can follow activity on Twitter by using at BBC R4 feedback or you can call us and leave a phone message on 03345 standard landline charges apply it could cost more and some mobile networks all these details are on our website each week will be nice.

To BBC Radio listeners to step out of their comfort zones and listen to a program that would normally be on their radar this week.

We have June Bevington who lives in Great Ayton North Yorkshire and living in Ely in Cambridgeshire ok? What would be your top 3 programmes if you were stranded on a desert island? Well, I would want the Life Scientific and I also like Saturday Live and I like Desert Island Discs to and you built your top three well my top 3 would be Outlook on the world service and the Steve Lamacq show on Radio 6 and then I was kind of dithering from Radio 4 between Desert Island Discs and the confessional but as June is gone for a desert island disc go through the confessional when we asked you have to listen to classical fix on Radio 3 which is also available as a podcast and in the episode we asked you to this to specifically.

Stevens and professional musician mixed a classical playlist to his music level guess actress ventriloquist comedian and Nina Conti sample of the programme you feeling on hearing that one steamers a variation of an assist somebody's giving you a description when I gave of the programme.

How would you describe it? I would describe it as a guest speaker being given several classical pieces to listen to and then discuss their reactions with the presenter and June did you take to this program? Have you heard of Nina Conti before you actually listen? No, I hadn't but I did.

Can I see the program I looked up Nina Conti because she sounded fun but I didn't enjoy any of the music or you enjoyed the show very much indeed.

It was bright lively and I was interested all the way through don't what about you? Did you wear first of all do you think Nina Conti was a good guess? Yeah? I partially agree with June that she was very good guest and nothing she can remain made the show she was quite entertaining.

It's a formula.

Isn't it that they use making something that's considered inaccessible such as classical music for some and kind of make it more accessible by using a Canadian current affairs on Have I got news for you or with signs in the Infinite Monkey Cage so that's very much work for me ironic.

I wouldn't consider myself classical music fan, but I do intend to look up one or two of the pieces.

What do you like the guest? You didn't like the music how about the presenter Linton Stevens do you think he did?

I thought he was excellent he was fun and bright and they had a really good report something else.

I would say is it when they listen to the music and then they listen to it in more detail and analyses a little bit that doesn't actually appeal to me at all, but obviously it will do for a lot of listeners weather obviously evangelical Innocence in introduce you to new things.

I have a tube.

It'll tell me about the presenter.

Did you think that Clinton did a good job? Yeah? I think he was as I say kind of following up format of taking something considered inaccessible making it accessible or at least trying to introduce it to people who otherwise wouldn't I think in that format he was the straight man and the guest Nina was the kind of entry ok listen to her presenting the show coming early on her own when I probably would have switched off.

It was just Linton talking about classical music on his own.

No I felt that I would have listened to.

Interviewing anyone actually, I thought you had a really good style well, let's suppose that there been evangelical Radio 3 on the intention is program part from entertaining you was also to introduce you to new you can expand my musical Horizons did it succeed June well.

Yes, it did because I would listen to the programme again and so possibly I will find something that I like but will it be determined by the guest or by the music and the present both probably about you bill.

Did it succeed in extending your interest in my Michael yes, and no that was quite taken by that piece with the two brass instruments and the laughing as I say I listen to Radio 6 music which is kind of off-piste music bit alternative and that kind of fit into that mode.

What is a bit surprised that included in a program about classical music on the Facebook so I expected they all like violins and bassoons.

I don't know ok, so finally we normally and these discussions asking you if you are you tempted Sunday not and I generally because I'm not sharing this guy's tune how to become a little bit because I don't regard Radio 3 of music has been entertaining but I did find entertaining until I would say that despite the fact that I'm not a classical music fan.

I was not out of my comfort zone because assumed knowledge base was quite low so obviously designed for for newbies like many people are in YouTube classical music so you listen again.

I won't actively seek to listen to the program, but if I'm tidying up around the house for doing the laundry.

You're driving to her from work and it's on I'll certainly listen to it.

It depends.

I think a big factor is the guest contribute.

That is that would make or break the show for me right one.

Thank you very much.

I will leave you with this piece of music from the classical fix which you both found that in quite fun.

And you can hear that and other episodes of The Radio 3 Series classical fix on BBC sounds well, I'm delighted that David shukman.

The BBC's science editor still with me.

It's about to leave the BBC after a 38-year career reporting on Northern Ireland defence Europe and world affairs but since 2003 he's been covering science and the environment becoming the editor in 2012 and quite a lot of you a very sorry that is going Michael frearson, Cambridge I've always admired David shukman work and will be longer to hear his clear and authoritative reports on climate breakdown rosemary Clarke can you please tell us why so many excellent and experienced to journalists producers and editors leaving the BBC well, they would you find I'll be able to answer your colleagues, but why you guys having your belly 6763? Can I just say it's very touching to hear comments like that.

It's not often that.

UK publicly that work is appreciated 38 years is a pretty long innings.

So what are you going to do? Have you any immediate plans? I'm fascinated by all the different subjects should I covered in my career? I find climate the most engaging because it touches every aspect of Our Lives it's so politically challenging.

Its fascinating diplomatically and raises all kinds of interesting questions and I'm keen to stay with this subject in some form of ID do you need to tell me you might be a camera campaign that you might trigger for your objectivity and post up on you by while BBC job and say I'm going to rain this I signed up to nothing so I'm going to leave we'll see what comes up.

There is some very interesting proposals and I'm looking forward to it, but I leave where the sense of optimism about climate change because most people are pretty depressed about it and during the course this interview you have accepted that sort of positive.

You are optimistic in the end.

I'm optimistic by nature I mean.

Humans are incredibly clumsy and short-sighted and a brilliant at filing things up but then when our backs are against the wall we can display terrific engine getting out of a tight spot.

I mean there's nothing at the moment of cop26 that would inspire much optimism on the other hand in the course of the last 20 years have witnessed normal shift.

Not only do the scientists understand much better actually, what's really going on strawberry shift in the cost of Renewables which looked unaffordable long ago now look very deployable immobilization of young people interested and engaged in this topic and seen some incredible Innovations and I think you put all that together possibly there is a way forward and I like to think that there is and just one last thought that there are a lot of people leaving the BBC at the moment at party is just a generation is getting out with party.

It is the BBC's having to do.

Headcount and has also offered people rather more attractive terms for going and retirement is really worry that knowledge Wisdom experience is going out at the same time.

Do you share that person I think that's always tempting to think that is the place going to run without me.

That's very dangerous.

There was a time many years ago when I was a young reporter who thought I had something to offer and I was only giving opportunities because others who are far more senior and older moved to other things and I think it's important that we refresh I think it's valuable and I look forward to hearing how they will do and I wish everybody well.

I know it's feedback Gardens wish you well David shukman.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much now before we go a short update on last week's program in which we interviewed Stephen Nolan and David Thompson about that.

Podcast series Nolan investigates, it looks at the influence of the lobby group Stonewall and lgbtq plus rights charity organisations such as the BBC the Scottish and governments and Ofcom to the Producers frustration The Corporation refuse to be interviewed.

Well.

It was a strong list and response to the podcast and to our interview with its makers overwhelmingly positive on Wednesday the BBC announced that it will not be renewing its participation in Stonewall diversity champions programme and that's all from feedback this week next week.

I'll be talking to the commissioning editor for digital and podcast for Radio 3 and 4 and 4 Extra rain Roberts to let me have some of your questions signs for her until next week.

Keep on keeping safe, goodbye.