Read this: #119 - Edinburgh TV Festival Special 2019

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Hello and welcome to the media podcast Edinburgh TV festival special, I'm Boyd Hilton entertainment director of heat deputy editor of pilot TV magazine hosts of the pilot TV podcast and host the footballer stickley Arsenal on today.

Show will be talking about the BBC iPlayer extension the athletics mission to rewrite football covered in the UK and the risks and rewards of making TV in a global marketplace plus in the media quiz.

I'll get to spot the difference between real commissions and this festival and pictures we made up.

That's all today's Media podcast.

Alan to bring the big stories of the festival joining me is CEO of nine lives Media cat Lewis welcome editor of The Guardian no less Jim Waterson hello who won nets for the first time at Channel 4 dinner on Tuesday and we already approached you to take part in this because I'm a strong arms you while you were slightly unsafe slightly drunk to make sure you did you were going on a new grease that's Landorus but also true of the kind of shows that your company has made or has been commissioned to make what kind of stuff do you do for 12-years in the North based in MediaCity now we were the first independent to win one of the BBC2 programmes which was Songs of Praise so that's something that that is very close to my heart and I'm particularly pleased because we've just managed to do the first same-sex marriage on surprised.

It's 12.

So this just thought with the general festival how many steps have you been to gym? So this is my second year at Edinburgh which I know makes me a relative newbie.

I'm coming to the media world outside discover politics and it's a bit like politics has this annual Party Conference thing where everyone's incredibly boring and the white wine is terrible and all the rest Media festivals by comparison of this Glitz desert everyone keeps knocking slightly more measured.

It's it's much nicer.

You're saying Media people are less snarky than industry, but you know there is actually will believe this highlights so far.

I have basically found myself covering Channel 4 commissions for most of the first days not least I'm currently trying to talk about a program the British tribe next door in which Scarlett Moffatt has they've move her entire cow.

Semi to Namibia and it's one of those where I go.

I want to have been in the meeting.

Well that was commission because I just I sometimes and baffled by how TV people come up with ideas for removing a house brick by a replicate they just in case it ok.

Just shipped out find out some pebbledash to Namibia conference isn't it's like people are discussing events in discussing topics.

What's been your highlight that given that as well aside from everyone agreed very strongly with a load of white men on stage.

They care very much about diversity and that's the number one priority for the industry.

I've been particularly intrigued by saying I mean Louis II was very and also ever been just quite frank about the fact that younger audiences.

Just watching telly like rather than sort of trying to pretend that they're all gonna at some point this seriously, TuneIn

We just need to think about things in a different way to measure things differently actually it's all about streaming anyway.

Yes, I know that I'm making a big shift into first one was 21 years the key I think to a great Edinburgh is to have the person on whose kind of everybody's talking about at the time.

So you know obviously is going to be amazing and I think that is all the commissioners when their 20s and the advertisers use to pay 10 times more for every viewer between the age of 18 and 34 and that's just giving each other jobs.

You know and it's really need to go back to that.

This is why the people I'm watching the control Channel 5.

Zookeeper have that kind of giving up try and stay young people and I just going for old people in their contract with that still still spend money on stuff that gets advertised so you know advertisers only have an ongoing shopping list which is everything that I buy every different product that I'm not very easy to convince to buy a product because I'm trying for you know I'm kind of an every Advertiser knows that this is the problem if we don't change the way we think when will end up with The Dying audience, so which Songs of Praise we basically have reduced the audience when we inherited at it was I'm not going to say exactly because it's probably all confidential but anyway we produce the audience in two years the average age because if you don't tackle that problem of audience is getting older you will end up with a dime medium.

Let's talk about some Civic stories that happened all happening in the media right now since we last one today Media podcast two more about the festival itself later on the iPlayer extend.

The something that's happening at the moment that the BBC talking about here at the festival.

It's become a big story of the papers reporting out that so basically we get to see on iPlayer for a year now.

That's a big change.

Doesn't it? What do you think is the ultimate for this? Is it may be that it's good for the public good for us or the item is at the moment iPlayer is one of the most frustrating products around like to stop thinking about the industry side thing.

Just think is a consumer your mouth times.

I asked about 3 or 4 weeks documentary.

I really wanted to watch you go on and you'll find it's got episode 35 failable is completely useless when you used to almost any other format so as a consumer.

It's brilliant if your Channel 4 or anyone else have a catch up service you won the BBC's allowed out and I'll be very interested to know what the Independent producers which we have filled.

She wants to have direct to play getting the right from Ofcom to have stuff on iPlayer box etc for whole year, but they don't want to pay the people make them anymore money for that is that is that fair all independent producer like myself nine lives been going to argue as I'm 100-percent.

Oh, no, there is no secondary sales in the UK that haven't been any secondary cells for a very long time.

I make a lot of programs as a Northern producers do for the wonderful Ben flower and Channel 5 can have rolled in Cannock secondary sales a very long time ago so as far as I'm concerned at this juncture with such a huge change in television what we need to do is not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

We all have to take the Long View and we all have to think how do we make sure that we secure public service television which is the reason why we are the best producers in the world and the reason why I program sell internationally so my view is that Ofcom and the Bee

They have been absolutely right in terms of allowing the 12-months to be honest.

I personally would allow them to have 5-years as they will do with children's programmes my team make the most wonderful documentaries that win Awards internationally.

We just won the Rocky Ward in the band festival competing against every other country film should be available for children in the UK to watch and I would give no international sales for those films as children's programmes if we don't get together now as an industry and take the long view of how we protect our public broadcasters, then we're at risk of throwing out the baby with the bathwater and the problem is that the super Indies don't really give a shit companies you know I'm talking with a long-term view as an authentic indigenous producer.

I've always been exact producer outside London and this.

Support the BBC the BBC revise iPlayer performance measurement framework, it's one line in one of these very very heavy Ofcom reports like I came across as reading through which was basically the BBC's argument doing this is that we down to about sort of 10 15% market share and we need this maintain that that sort of the role that they're going to end up with date.

I'm not thinking that they're gonna in anyway challenge Netflix with this and that is both side of a reason to wait through and also slightly terrifying in the creative Industries you know it's incredibly important that we enable them to do what they need to do with a broadcaster and I personally disagree.

Play with what's the current curator of Channel 4 Alex you know has decided to do in terms of giving 100% of the revenue to produces.

The only talked packed don't represent the whole industry I run the Indie club.

We have members that are running smaller and he's outside London she should have come to talk to us as well.

Which is what the BBC did what I've commented.

She should have took to direct 2K they would have an opinion as well.

I'm not sure what it is, but my opinion.

Is it Alex was over generous to give 100-percent of back and revenue changing the way they're kind of taking a car or not out shows their commission of prey at the moment work brilliantly in our favour in this country and to be lucky if you're in America and I know plenty of American produces the broadcast of pay 100% and they expect to onedrive percent and as far as they're concerned why on earth wouldn't they in a so what that means as a producer?

In America you're just a producer for hire you can never grow your company at the only reason might be able to build my company over 12 years could have international sales revenue but I own the programs that I make yeah, so basically the danger with what Alex has done.

Is that the other psvs feel obliged to do the same? I'm sure they won't because they just couldn't afford it, but you know if they do then what that means is that the PSPs long-term will be really threatened.

We have this fantastic balance at the moment where we work with the broadcasters with their commissioners with formats, but hey we get 85% of the revenue but we give them 15% of the revenue to help cover the cost of those commissioners etc to ensure that they've got skin in the game to have a situation in the reverse of the situation in America to me to seems crazy and I think it's long-term it could threaten the PSP system in this country.

No, this is an extraordinary situation where this American sport website is also British farm.

Did the launch beginning of August what's your feeling about this basically seem to have gathered all this but some of the best football writers out there an extraordinary situation.

We now have to pay well if you want you can get 30-days free feeling about the whole athletic drive to nab the football writers.

It's essentially we're going to build a dream team of writers in theory covering covering the jobs that you care about I'm a York City fan in the 6th division.

It doesn't really do a lot for me as a result but you'll end up with everyone in theory having to subscribe to read the best quality Sports in the country.

Ok.

I don't think it's a bad idea.

I think sports fans were excessive in a way that most other readers aren't and there are certain people that they will follow and a lot of these people would be.

Because I got big twitter following as much as because of their fantastic writing ability what I'm intrigued by is to see whether they get the sort of beyond the initial burst of Interest really get the numbers.

They need there's certainly a lot of money into it my targeted ads on Facebook just full of things imploring me to sign up at the moment, but if they're paying the salaries of people are talking about people who were getting 30% pay rises to jump ship and join them plus shares in the Business Plus they're not running any adverts quite a lot of people to make it work and having work to the venture capital back.

It's new start-up which splashed a bit of cash back in the day it can go wrong.

You can expand like mad then find yourself with a very high cost base totally apostate.

I think it's just an example of how kind of you know content is King it's a shame when when stuff goes behind barriers because as child more was saying in her session which was brilliant.

It's all about.

The British Public together, so she's bringing story and character to every different genre in a way that she told us she would do you know for a 5-years going to an extent but now every year it just gets better and better so this year for example in terms of natural history the seven worlds one planet series is clearly going to be brilliant from the clip that we in at the BBC One whatever it's called controller fantastic.

I tried to set up a football club.

Yeah, when I was at school.

I just wanted to play football.

I wasn't allowed I was told it was actually physically dangerous for girls to play for anything wonderful but now we're supporting these brilliant women who playing football for us all over the world.

One of the things that I signed up for the free 30-day trial thing so you know I do not have brought cars and it and there's in-depth long narratively driven, storytelling art is all about deep dives are eating actually is quite appealing model but I'm telling you is that actually we were told as programme makers for many decades that no man wanted to watch Women's football and that's why the storytelling is so important.

It does make people engage saying this but it's a three-part of that they commissioned and I still can't get my head around TV and the time it takes to get a document in 2021.

I want to watch this tomorrow.

Sort of get a camera in and do a live stream of this but I just want to see data sharing his thoughts on various things.

This is a man who having had so much power for cause of death for some good and perhaps a lot more ill has managed to basically avoid most scrutiny is given about three or four interviews and written about three or four articles in the last 20 of years to get to understand the man who shaped modern Britain in many ways front so what do you think about that whole idea? I personally would have commissioned an hour called the story of the Daily Mail you know those two Paul is outside.

I really don't you know never gives a shit.

You know they really don't it? Won't get viewers.

I'm afraid it should be a 1 time 60.

What we've all been doing for the last 20-years in television.

It's been making unfolding narrative stories.

What is unfolding massive? Is it going to take us to the allotment? Is it going to take us to his place in Spain you know about the self indulgent EDP 40ml armchairs, but I hear something that one will be back to dissect Dorothy Byrne mactaggart lecture after this.

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Thanks WhatsApp for supporting the power hour podcast bookspot to before we get to the McTaggart I wanted to mention.

Have a theme of the festival this year old is what is TD4 just in passing Jim what do you think Siri is for what people here think TV is off and seems to be a sudden very high concept take saying something about the state of the nation and there's definitely.

There's another bit of TV which I think is slightly under analyse at the moment which is that sort of pervasive background.

They should have people watching Netflix series on endlessly.

Just to sort of have something comforting by them and you've got the sort of two things you've got the special commission that goes out on BBC one that deals with some big issue, or the new drama and then you've also got the sort of wallpaper content for a lot of people what TV is now the biggest circles on his friends.

He is in the old Wrekin phrase to educate to entertain 2 in but I've got an addition.

It's also to change the world.

It's not easy to change the world as Dorothy was saying what it takes his commitment is Dorothy Byrne was chosen to give them mactaggart lecture the keynote address at this year's festival and give them a Taggart lecture in the festivals history abroad humor candor and a dead fish to The Apprentice

He is one of the highlights of her speech a female boss had also told me that would take me out to the basics of filming sexually assaulted me, but I wasn't to take it personally because he sexually assaulted all women he worked with sure enough.

He did a sort me one of the few examples in my area of the promise of a boss coming true.

Is a salt with a criminal offence complain to I learnt early on that as a woman I was on my own so you probably want surprise about Dorothy Byrne zone me to moment what it teaches about the state of the industry dinner now in which longside April 30th but actually she said exactly what needed to be sad and I was so incredibly proud of her.

She was absolutely right that we need to find a way of holding these politicians the used to be a respectful television and unfair for interviews and for communicating with the public which has disappeared because quite frankly they would all rather do what the Ludacris trump doing currently calling himself.

God on Twitter they would all rather call themselves God and speak to us directly as opposed to going through the forensic.

Of journalism and particularly brilliant was the way that she interjected humour throughout you know and the way that she took us to that point where she landed you know the one of the previous mactaggart lectures was was delivered by Sex Pistols not had their comeuppance yeah, which are lawyers that the Guardian certainly had kittens when trying to work out whether you could identify as a 40-year old people which year was the w w w intrigue me actually was to sort of slightly nuance and not quite a bit cold water under the idea that politicians being a rational indulging these TV scrutiny events that they are trying to avoid the interviews you got to start going off.

I wouldn't if Boris Johnson do a Facebook

And if he knows the evening news is going to use the pictures regardless and he knows all that ever toriel control all of us to run thing away all of us saying that's just really not how you should do it if you can get away with that my stress in terms of a strategy and down the street.

Why would you not do that and I hate that is a point I don't like it.

I don't think it's right.

I don't is ethical, but you've got to start thinking ok.

How's box them into having to do these one on ones if TV audiences are getting older if the TV news audience is getting particularly older.

How do you say you got to do this because it's the only way you can reach.

I think what you do.

Is you give the platform for somebody like Jess Phillips you know if Jess Phillips was standing against Boris Johnson and Jess Phillips who did wonderful session here to produce.

I got to know her mother and she's a genius.

You know if she was going around the country talking and every local radio station speaking in a local news rooms you no speaking.

BBC News taking people on in the way she can because she is brilliant then that would Force whoever was standing against her to actually up their game and come in so you're absolutely right.

I totally agree with you anybody to do anything of course we can't what we can do is encourage candidates who are brilliant to use our medium in the way that it has a longer term right now.

Why would Dominic Cummings looking after Boris Johnson having seen what year did when somebody stands against him that you know the lion constantly that the trump suntan habitat of lies should every bulletin start with something like the Prime Minister

You talking as if everything can be solved through the formats that we had before and which were in an era, when not everything was immediately challenged candidates immediately accuse a news outlet at the moment that anything was put up that they disagreed with there's Only One Direction that this is going and it ain't going to be pretty.

I know that's not exactly an optimistic case but is it same time in in Dorothy species, you know she's mocking Dominic Cummings the number 10 strategy going in talking about his EU subsidies for his farm in able to do anything with Channel 4 in the near future.

That's not a bad thing but we setting ourselves up for a us on a sort of time-delay system of the politicians vs.

The media.

Don't see how we avoid that Confrontation 222 the Russian situation that you know it's going to be people doing their own hours, Longford

To say at least in Russia they know there is censorship and I think it's incredibly important that we speak truth to power if we as journalists and producers don't speak truth to power who will and it's absolutely right to say that if we know that something is factually inaccurate even if it's the next day with a actually you know what was reported.

We checked it out.

That's what we've paid to do.

We spent all day check not filing a million reports in a journalism kind of way we actually checked it out properly.

It wasn't true and now telling you that wasn't true and she's absolutely right to say what now I completely believe in that I do like that a lot myself, but be the glue monger on This podcast every time I've ever done fact checks.

They've been held up triumphantly by side that is vindicated and dismissed as irrelevant by the side the already believe the original point the only thing that I can think that will really breakthrough and that the TV

Doing a lot more of is trying some house some how to block people into a corner to the point where they feel they need to come on and do a long format if you did have a look at some of the podcast and some of the YouTube I don't like it, but things like Joe Rogan for better or worse he can get millions of viewers to sort of weird sprawling unstructured not massively critical at interviews and I'm not saying hey pretty one that format that is something that seems to get in new audiences finally a game called a red light green light for the TV festival run through some of the interesting announcements Belmont the genuine commissions might be some cakes with made up.

So can you stop the imposters in red light green light? I read you the new show you just have to say your name and if you think it's a green lights for a real show or red light for fake so number one and epic science show for Amazon Robin Richard Hammond and Tory Bellucci showing a serious lack of.

Health and safety gym, I think I think that's probably happening yes correct.

It's untitled chosen else by Amazon boss, Georgia Brown and I control the session and she says it will be epic number to a Sky Atlantic drama about an ageing star whose life is disrupted when a photo of her in a compromising position is leaked 90s green light is I hate Suzie will be reunited Billie Piper secret Diary of a Call Girl creator Lucy prebble and Billie Piper will start in the show the whole thing and wrestling horror novel commissioned by Channel 5 drama with a doctor who director on a blushing team that seems suitably on Channel 5 they probably is real is that happening? It is real Susan Hill the small hand a ghost story the small hand will come to Channel 5 and haunting modern adaptation by writed borough map in creative BBC's waking the Dead and will be directed by someone who directed Doctor Who

A new interview show featuring former One Direction star Liam Payne getting deep into the wilderness November on Sky featuring series of conversations out in the countryside and finally a new Channel 5 show called eaten by an elevator when machines attack yes, I so Channel 5 that's got to be happening.

I just do big machine on trains and that space of Glasgow to be real, but there is an actual Channel 5 show called eaten by an escalator which is has just gone out and about to go out when machines attack but not an elevator escalator that was by me, but maybe I'll do the elevator version after that places gym tastes.

Thank you very much.

Thanks so much cat Lewis on travelling sites.

It's been amazing and to Jim thank you.

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