Read this: #157 - ARIAs 2021; Amazon Buys Bond; Discovery And WarnerMedia Merge

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Hello and welcome to the media podcast.

I'm only man on the show this week.

It's a merger and acquisition specialist Amazon buys, MGM and Discovery merges with Warner Media what does it all mean for the Battle of a streaming Giants programme The Fallout continues from the Diana Panorama scandal is Fleet Street and the government push for more power over the broadcaster all that plus friends at the recent audio wards in the US TV upfront Honda Facebook's latest news deals and in the media quiz we go the full Lynda Bellingham in this edition of the media podcast turn back on the show today with a fresh trifle of delicious hot takes editor of newsweek international Alex Hudson hello Alex how are you yet?

Your office and actually met the people who report to you.

I have been in my office once to pick up an office chair, but I only met the the head of HR it was a lovely lovely person who was great but now I have to me any of my colleagues now 14 months then in person opportunity to an office chair at home.

You had to go and steal the one from the building without paying for it.

It's getting a cab.

Sent to me with a with a post-apocalyptic where we might be heading but happily we are not there yet.

Are you going to continue to be spending a proportion of your work from home? Do you think when things potentially go back to normal? I think looking good news week.

It was already the case beforehand.

So I think that will continue and also I am so bored of these four walls.

I'm with my partner in a one-bedroom flat so we have two rooms to go in so she is not related to the bedroom and as I get this phone to record this podcast so you know more rooms any rooms any offers.

Wonderful and we are really looking forward to getting back to me some some semblance of an office I can see from the webcam.

You do have some lovely plants, so that some small consolation today is Chief content officer of content company something else Mr Steve Ackerman hello Steve hello Ollie as we record it was the Arias last night the Radio Academy Awards were you in the Will you down in a bottle of vodka in your pyjamas out so that was what was it that was best specialist show with jamz Supernova what did you think of this question about 100 times over the last year, but these Awards are becoming less remote and more hybrid now aren't they so, it's a legitimate evolution of the question.

What did you think of the awards ceremony now, but it was going half in person half on the computer.

I'm very sympathetic to I'm genuinely sympathetic to the fact that it's a real challenge.

I think to try and do something that can feel like a bit of the water.

Obviously works remotely and in a sense.

I think they base of the best.

They possibly could you know an Auditorium the presenters and Anna sense about it? It's probably not that much longer that we're going to still have these sort of hybrid Moments you know hopefully by this time next year we'll be back at Paul's again.

No, I'm sure showing a remote version as well for people to watch we're going to be good.

I'm not sure I can get that emotional bad either way to be honest.

I mean you know magic so nice station, but nice is probably the right words that I guess because I thought that all the winners of the

We're going to be because of the coronavirus being such a huge story, but it shows that I suppose for a lot of people this way the flipside of horrendous news story unfolding around you as well.

Completely I mean come on.

We've all had that experience where and when you think back over the past 15 months.

We just feel I cannot watch any more news because it's just dragging me down and you think what is the complete opposite it's it's Phil Good middle of the road music that is not offensive and just does you know they do exactly what they say.

They're going to be there, but I don't want to hear dancing you mean by Lionel Richie dollars for Amazon gets access to the James Bond catalogue, which Netflix Netflix wanted to buy just the upcoming movie for a billion dollars just by itself, so there's obviously competition there.

And this news comes after we landed Discovery are to merge with AT&T to create another new streaming giant which will take on Netflix Disney plus and Amazon Prime so don't worry travel actually so in away as I mean should be asking why Amazon was willing to pay so much, but they were in trouble and obviously they have been damaged as they were up for sale, but obviously they do have a very valuable inventory.

I mean you only have to look at ITV2 schedule to know what we know.

What are they going to do with James Bond get stripped away from them.

You know it's probably has to be I guess along with what else Star Wars and Harry Potter when the most valuable film franchises in the world and it keeps on giving obviously so so in that sense.

There is a genuine value there and and and you can see for Amazon how it makes sense.

It's not just think how many times can I watch James Bond but actually I suppose owning the IP is different, isn't it? Because you can make new versions of it.

That's what Amazon have proven with the Lord of the Rings coming up.

Rocky RoboCop Wizard of Oz you can make TV spin-off of all those things I think that's just how many times people watch James Bond and I'm friends with the friends exclusive without the without a day that show a lot like the office is still watch time and time and time and time and time again by people and James Bond audiences are just watch this one.

I think it's because you are listening to the licensing in that back catalogue particularly for its audience which are incredibly likely to subscribe to a digital service if James Bond is on there was one part of it and I agree with you VIP is amazing about what you can do with James Bond although you know are you going to make it a beautiful wonderful new in a bit of saying or are you going to have 7270 first? I was filmed.

30 seconds as is happening at the moment, so it's how do Amazon find out balance.

How do you still make a James Bond release an event even been delayed? What 12 months or so, and how do you keep how the new James Bond is picked even more screen you'll be on Amazon what they do next but that back catalogue is worth the money on the other hand Steve if you went to talented creators and said we've got 8 billion dollars to play with we were thinking about buying MGM but would like to do instead is come up with 50 great new brand we could exploit for the next 100 years could mate but anyway without owning RoboCop you've got something if I hear and you know when you look at things like the Marvel universal.

How is expanded the starwars universe you could easily see how potentially with that James Bond universe or some of those other franchises as well you can expand those out quite easily you got backstories to tell on daddy's you've got.

Characters of pop-up you know movie after movie who you can spin off in different ways, it's the fact that you're buying something that's fully established and it just gets back to the same thing.

I mean especially with Amazon who are such a dated and smart smart people they're not going to the numbers and they filled it absolutely justifies the price Netflix look a bit weak.

Obviously the point isn't that compete with the big beast Alex and Netflix doesn't have IP with that kind of 100-year heritage does it was actually Disney Dance because you only do they have Star Wars and fox now have Warner NH VI which will talk about in a minute Netflix owned and that's how Netflix pivoted what 10 years ago.

Maybe with House of Cards was that 10 years ago.

That is true, but so Netflix bought all of the rights to all of those films all of the BBC back catalogue really early on and the audience but now they have 200 million subscribers going on.

It's what can Netflix do differently what Netflix is always a new upstart Ms and search brand is in creating continuing brackets new is new formats if the game shows in reality shows and my Netflix on you in a way where you were saying like Woodward Netflix .5 billion dollars on an existing for my new format.

I think she's finding that in breaking through in those brilliant new things that they look at the Oscars or elsewhere is how Netflix makes it seems like an authority on new content rather just buying in authority from other companies that other deal the 43 billion dollar deal to merge Warner media with Discovery Steve I mean to me reading between the lines this sort of seems largely to be AT&T acknowledging.

They don't quite know what to do with the TV and movie studio, they have Warner HBO they kind of bored it up and pissed.

All the films are going to come out online at the same time as the cinemas and they just said like we've got established player here.

We've got David's as love who runs Discovery he can run the Movie Studios if we team up with it seems to be what's behind it largely well-known.

I think I think there's another layer which is come on the week doesn't go by on This podcast when you are talking about the streaming Wars battle and how many subscriptions can anyone person pay for and you know we think it's going to be 4 or 5 or is it going to be 6 and that's really what's at the root of this? I mean with this onto big player in 15 million subscriber since January not bad you look at Netflix's 208 millions.

Is it worth getting your Rover Discovery really they're not to be played when you when you turn the two companies to get a catalogue then.

Obviously you know you have a very different different picture.

I'm sure we're going to carry on seeing more of this because ultimately you can see that there's a controller.

Going on in clever people than me.

I think that I keep reading is is the average expect the average of about 4 services? I think that's about right.

Isn't it? So wait, so we're not we're not necessarily at saturation point yet? You know what sort of getting there and is obviously big competition you got also peacock by the services that haven't actually launched in the UK yet.

There's also battling in this space.

So really these are the sort of early you know done shots being fired battle.

It's going to take place over the next couple of years probably Alexa to talk about this picture is premium content had to get Sky basically and spend £67 a month then there was this whole period of cord cutting and now we're going to snow anymore.

See everything in Disguise a good example like so all of the TV companies all of these big corporations 11 Monopoly back.

So if you look at like sky just owns if you're paying for a service 90s you're paying for Sky if you're looking so let me you Sky network same thing and Netflix for a long time was the only company that you gave money to online to watch TV or movies or whatever so people are making what was the 18 and 708 billion then making 108 $1000000 bets on the fact that they can you get them and even though the market is so much more now and everything and Disney's and there are so many operating a bit can't believe in offaly, but they're still looking for that and I still don't think they will be that point when people start to cut down again, because there will be that one brand that they tie themselves to dial to brands of their time selves.

Don't have enough time to watch all the TV if they're watching YouTube checking social media for actually having a life when real life is allowed again and so it's it how that people died for that one or two subscriptions rather than the three or four don't worry.

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We can no longer.

Let's do Diana Gate the BBC has been doing as usual self flagellation this week following the diet cause into Martin Bashir interview with Princess Diana have a government of responded to as well of course home secretary Priti Patel said the licence fee midpoint review next year would see changes to the broadcaster from on my Adelaide into the BBC's quote group think there was a little more.

How do you think I've handled before out from there? I think Tim Davie and they're pretty well.

I think he was he seemed to me to be pretty on the front foot in a very difficult situation.

Are the transfer after 4-days of not saying anything because obviously this is not his making it's not like some of the recent scans around with the BBC website on his what she's not even not as digi.

It's something from a long time ago however and the obviously is it is a disaster story to the BBC because it just gets to the principles of ethics and and Journal and the BBC is built on on that element of trust the other thing I'd say about it is the government's reaction was holy predictable I mean you you don't need to be any sort of Media expert with this government to know that if there's a chance really to grab the BBC by the neck.

They will do it and they and they taken their chance unfortunately the BBC game that.

To start saying something happened 25 years ago means they need to be complete upheaval now and clearly that's that's a big Lee buffet.

What organisation look at in any sphere of business or anything else that is run now the same way it was 25 years ago hasn't changed over 25 years and you know so pretty difficult so so pretty for sale.

It was out of 10 out of 10 for predictable response.

There is this inconvenient for a job that existed before Did It religious editor.

I don't know replace him since he resigned and you know that was a decision that Tony Hall was part of James Harding was part.

So it's not as simple to say what happened 25 years ago a curious person might have been aware that there was an issue around this year, then that was Steve about the hole.

5 years ago things have changed but how he got retired which critics are saying there wasn't the so and then sources in reporting and said that he just got home process the BBC centre.

There was a rigorous process and the process was followed is to recent for that to Be Forgotten history and so the BBC said that it's going to reduce editorial practices and investigates, but what that actually means in practice is just due diligence if you're hiring people your job is a look for every social media post ever made every allegation 7 made and showed an absolute companies in the people.

You didn't know until this all came out that this year was launched by staying in to be like he will be reported before hand or that.

He wasn't wasn't in.

This was his moment and so the idea that he is this naive person didn't understand the rules is plausible, but the idea that he hasn't gained so much from

And then why I think the question is what did the BBC One from getting him back in and that's that's that's the question that they the presses asked OK what do they have does he want to keep his master today? What what is the rear back? Is it because he has the best religious had it so that the BBC that point or is it something else going on about what he originally is it? I am old enough to remember the original remember watching it and maybe what what has she hasn't been reported on now because again it's sort of a tainted story but he then landed Michael Jackson on the back of it.

Which was also you know Michael Jackson circles.

You know this is news on the internet at the time that was massive because he was he was the superstar and never gave interviews really was the super fans are saying we need a review on the Jackson as well.

The means justify the ends but whatever the methods they both uncovered an essential tree Michael Jackson was preying on children Princess Diana was vulnerable in the marriage and 3 people in it and then there's the things that the public now.

No yeah, but at the end of the day journal has to be built in Essex doesn't it and especially coming out of the and the BBC the only thing I wasn't aware of until the story really came out and maybe this is what you're losing to Alex was that he went on he obviously works for number of Us broadcasters, but there were a number of dubious reasons why some of those jobs came to an Ender's as well.

I don't actually know the details on those.

I just know there's a suggestion of something you know something happened in some of those jobs, which you know clearly again.

I think place to Alex's point about about the rehiring and kind of me know was enough due diligence down there might cause people to feel about British journalism.

Such practices are still wide by today and he said that is bigger than outlet one that work.

I want publication if I think Prince Harry and Meghan mannerisms.

It's it's German things.

I think you're right.

It's not brilliantly noble profession that for the process that we have to be able to hire account every time something does go wrong.

It makes national newsletter and Johnson the back of it and it becomes a national talking point and so as we all know right if one thing appears in the media on it and it gets traction are the headlines of here and people think that's why you're leaving as we are four times and the existence of humanity we have to believe in gender and Jasmine is more and more ethical has been which I know I said on this every time and I will no doubt get criticised for saying so but it's it's it's not a signifier of where German

I think it could be argued that it wasn't signifier of Nigella's and was 25 years ago and I think the amount of German like similar things just hit it better or covered up that's not necessarily when you look at things like phone-hacking.

I mean it.

I mean that was one other side element of the story this week the reaction of papers like the sun and the and the male who obviously love the fact that the BBC have been exposed to a 2 degree at sighted in the editorials phone-hacking and Levinson and some of those issues because you know they feel that the BBC guardian cambuse jumping on the ethics of the tabloids in the mall, but you you look at the reaction now and again.

You know we're talking about a very very significant story here until the day and obviously into probably there's been in the past 50 years, but the flip side of that is I don't think the sun on them all in any decent place to be letting anyone else or Essex

Interview should have to be played again in for diversion.

I mean when Parliament are they ever show the Panorama in fall from 1997 that wouldn't happen that you wouldn't show clips from what is you suggest is in a pretty much the most important interview with our lifetime once it's been one Suzanne allegation or of it was obtained under dubious circumstances an extract from mine.

Camp to talk about it.

You need to see that.

That's like saying you can't have a phone hacking cases at listening to the the phone calls that were recorded history of sweet spot as well for the BBC or whatever 6-weeks in regard to the Royal Family

7-years whatever, it is it's amazing how it goes ballistic at the BBC it's always to do with the royals whether it's the leader of its photoshoot and the other thing of the Queen's reaction Danny bakers supposedly racist weed when it affects the royal family that's when it's like everyone chimes in and yet the conclusion is often kind of all now we can't trust the trust has been eroded but we're not royals that why do people feel that on that particular issue like why do people feel the trusses been eroded when someone who lives in your road has been conned into taking car in a the BBC's job is on the big story so my collection night the reason that the BBC just has tenax the audience of ITV this because they are sand and so when it comes after 9/11 you switch on the BBC didn't switch on another network and the royal family in there is no big events around the royal family.

Just having any news around the World how many syns a big event and something the BBC should excellence of the Stakes are much higher faugan it wrong steaks and much more scrutinise because the royalist at the Britain are the the chorus of the code BBC audience and it's all times of the idea that the BBC has to be right all the time and but when it's about royalty on that video games and and the tablets they are even more closer than usual in another sign that the BBC is on the back foot this week BBC Studios is resetting its CEO after a 10 months process according to deadline studio production on the BBC can't find a hare's they have a budget of 2 billion dollars to spend on content one of the world's best makers of content.

Story which is a public service broadcaster there is scrutiny over salaries and you know there is definition about being able to afford top Talent but the other thing is kind of bearing in the story would just been discussing you know that if you come to the BBC there is the risk of just a whole new level of scrutiny to what you do all the shows you make other people who work within your organization, but you don't get in any other media organisation globally and especially bearing in mind the competitive marketplace.

There is now again going back to the stories.

We discussed earlier.

You know mergers and acquisitions and there is at that there was a very competitive market for top Talent and therefore frankly I'm sure a lot of people looking to gain well.

It doesn't pay me as much as I can get Elsewhere and I get whole lot more grief what I what I want it so Endemol shine group CEO Sophie Turner Laing is turn down the job apparently all3media CEO Jane Turton the YouTube

Play me a bus Cecile frot-coutaz as well.

He's just signed up to come the next sky Studios get to the point where the person who gets the job will only get the job and Oscar Lima guardian harold's the contender please turn it down all the way that's not good luck either.

Is it I was very intrigued actually with a line that I saw around the story which said that the new but is an ex Goldman Sachs banker, and I think that body of Rishi Sunak wasn't originally is looking for people outside of Media to come in and run it and that and that really sort of maybe because to think that someone had no experience of running a studio or program making or or TV making bit this isn't it does seem extraordinary not like either businesses where you know? It's not like you know if you run John Lewis you you know you can possibly going to other areas a retail because you understand how shop work.

So you know I think the idea.

Coming from a different sector does seem quite amazing though maybe I'm just not even and then and some of them quite understand the bigger picture that the BBC is used to holding all the cards with the BBC resolve dream job nothing still in use there a few places better to workout music is one of them, but there are a few places better to work in used in the BBC and when it comes to program making 1520 years ago the BBC the place right now.

Where has now please when you have Amazon you have Netflix you have the Disney you have these places where it is more exciting and you have more freedom and you're less sweet and get a lot more money to your list that look like president CBBC approach then said no that you couldn't think they need to rethink how that works and it and the screen it falls under if they want to attract the right saw people.

Quick and the GB news has announced its launch lineup.

What do you make if it's Steve I'm intrigued though though, I was the only free impartial or something along those lines and it really really resonated with fox and yeah, I know they're saying they were absolutely smashing operating to Ofcom guidelines which they will be and you know the guidelines in the UK than there are in the US but that was the thing that stood out for me along with I think they've got a show called something that ok or something or you know and I'm going to have a work watch where the Tony's hear the raised eyebrows in a funny way the models LBC in the UK I think you know what LBC for those you don't have done really cleverly.

Is you know it's a 24-hour you know.

News channel is a commercial radio.

I guess equivalent of 5 Live but they done that what I've done.

Very cleverly is Pepper that with people who very clearly have asked you on different sides of the spectrum and front very clear positions either right or left and that allow them to have very opinionated posts and to regenerate some great content and two obviously newsmaker interviews all that sort of all that sort of stuff from what I understand about GB news.

I think they're going to be trying to do a similar thing which is they will be trying to cover the news that would be x in their schedule where they are just covering the news as any other news outlet would but where there's going to be some very very clear at presenters and I suppose this really gets to the heart of of the times.

We living in which is you know there is a cultural in that sense.

You know quite interesting if you've seen the YouTube videos launching the station Alex but it all the interviews leading up to the launch, when Andrew Neil's been asked.

Leave vs.

Remain in sauce, that's decided.

It was ages ago.

What difference does it make of course we can employ people that voted for leave and people who voted for remain and we're not even think about that in their own promotional video 25 minutes longer.

Have a little tip of the hat to the brexit referendum and divide the country was in all the presenters say something about you know we are the station for people that have different diesel listen to you now.

This is a seismic and made me think twice about delivering news.

They are referring to it.

I think that's it's code for not london-centric and Sophie if you look at their hiring free which is next level out like anywhere and another person is brilliant if you look at where the number of different people different county in Wales that got like they've really spent the time and money finance people in those local beats and you are known by the local community because that's what you think.

Scribers from other watches from they're not going to be known as much as they might like to think that you were going to watch them all that's not going to happen.

So how can they grow out side the usual conversations? You know and all of their Cena woke watch and media watch and and and being counter-cultural you know even though it's owned by Party by Discovery and Company who owns ITV it's all about connected those people in feel disconnected them and that is clever political rhetoric.

You know it's how brexit was the General Lee is actually nearly new was going to have prime Time news program every night, so is Michelle Dewberry each weeknight Dan Wootton as well 5-minutes week Alastair Stewart I think 5 nights a week, but the show called Alastair Stewart and friends, so I don't know how long that program is exactly what the format is and the presenters of breakfast and Anna Aquaria Kirsty Gallagher Rebecca Hudson Inaya folarin Iman Darren McCaffrey and Rosie Wright

One thing I have seen as it's a convincing argument possibly for it on business terms, Steve is that because the price of advertising is come down and Alex's they're trying to be all parts of the country, but don't necessarily what are the new laws at the moment.

Maybe they could attract advertisers who wouldn't normally see themselves as TV advertised is possibly advertised in front.

I think it's going to be and it's going to be tough.

We're not the us.

We don't have that scale and as you know Sky News is run as a loss leader for many many years even though it's fantastic channel and does a great job in and in many other ways has done a great job, but it's not it's not something that's the that's a money maker for Sky clearly.

This is this is a cheaper operation, but it's difficult I think to see I mean you know the sizes come down that doesn't play two businesses trying to make be some prophets technology as well.

I'm curious about that.

They claimed to be the first cloudbase Newsroom I wonder if

Launch anything Alex launching in a pandemic.

Does me maybe they can come up with something more agile Solutions a new technology that you wouldn't if you started fighting years ago.

I mean you are launching a TV channel is so I mean as innovative as one can be so ardently you mentioned no relation and it's spelt differently but she's an old colleague and friend is is running all the Simon Simon just to see what she comes out with his father of the dish element of this as far as it comes with the advantages to your point that we are not we are it allows them to be limited in what they already innovated around that because of the pandemic in the BBC's ready in about that because people is Studios so it's what do they do differently and I'm looking all the digital side of things and I can't see anything like batteries.

Very good at what she does I'm excited to see what happens, but it feels like it's an analogue products in the surprise both of revenue of the business.

If you were brought in actually is digital editor of GPUs unlikely Alex perhaps, what would you be telling them to do you know across digital spectrum that they're not because he's old fashioned TV watch it appears that goes viral clips of LBC they go round every few days.

How do you do that? But you need every hour of the day and how do you make sure that they're over 3 minutes so that Facebook can put that in front of them some more media news in Brief and we need to do it earlier the Arias radios biggest night of the year took place on Wednesday evening a hybrid affair with some attending person most people at home trends at the Arias yes the BBC won.

Lots of Awards again and global didn't because they didn't answer as we discussed before.

But yeah, you know I mean the BBC just just gonna be dominated it which is interesting because the be fair to the re is the way the judging works.

Is is is that number of nominations are set aside for non BBC Productions 50/50 so there is every attempt to ensure that they can be some sort of the bearing in mind the the size of Resource and and and the factors of commercial pressures that the BBC has so I think in that sense especially in May been a pandemic.

Yeah.

I mean if someone is not surprising you know lots of news wins and imaging so that so that's probably a good thing that looks beginning on track but the headline is basically look at those categories the winner is the BBC sometime I mean that is you know that's not obvious from the headline.

Isn't you have local radio stations within which is kind.

It's a small BBC Radio Sheffield one and like particularly.

It's almost they are every every local radio stations being heavily BBC where every every commercial businesses of looking to focus more likely the BBC is not so that was hot woman and Greg James still with huge huge deal for the Radio 1 at the time when I thought I was going to vanish Without a Trace made sure they took shows out.

Yeah, they were supplying local audiences with pandemic news which is really important, but it's hard to imagine that people don't feel generally the stations are were aware of year ago when I have more things happening on them it appears like all those things are disabled.

Will it does and I mean I actually feel those were changes.

They probably needed needed to do.

A lot of BBC local radio hasn't innovated for a long time also when you look at the size of audiences that some of those stations get it been very hard to justify is obviously a public service element to ensure local service in a local areas are served by the BBC and I completely understand that particularly once you get outside of London but some of those stations do not have racing this can audiences anything Steve you got one at least around 6 to go to the Crown and how we get what I think is a few a few things that stuck out to me.

I mean first will be short of breath of shows which is fantastic.

I know that the entries are up by 50% so again.

That's really impressive and obviously completely addictive where the market is going to win there.

That's interesting you know from you one where it was a bit of fun feels like you know I think you'll see a lot of pick up around the British podcast Awards answer at the uuc mentions for shows that you know it was the British podcast Awards winner that sort of thing that's the difference between it.

I mean you know it in the podcast space.

They are just one of many and that's the exciting thing you know they're they're not actually particularly sniff comparing podcasting and I can get lots of other lots of shows and produces.

I think the other thing that stands out for me is in a lot of the categories now you see and really well made high-end Productions you know you play podcast production is reaching a really good moment now and I think you can also see that in the best network and we got some really fantastic British companies nominated in.

Fun Kids places Productions second of these are really good production companies making great podcast and so it's wonderful scene going up against other bigger players like like the BBC or The Economist or the effect it which been rumoured to be bought by the New York Times so so you know this is this is a wonderful event and and and hats off to the organisers because I just think this is really become a key part of the podcast Lance in the UK if you look through the list of nominees Alex I mean it seems very striking to me and this is absolutely British podcast and excels as it was surprised.

It's to do with budget obvious to me that the things we good at shows where two or three people have a chat and an amusing way or you know have a chat about surprising subject, but is there much in this list that competes with kind of podcast people love from the states that the without the US market is a lot more mature went missing in the UK is and

Us budget newspaper just whenever really comfortable and you can sell overseas and I don't think there's that many UK podcast that have those crossover no way that the road and a few others as bigger overseas as they are in the UK and maybe like that.

You know the football Weekly podcast as 50% UK audience and they still isn't the revenues behind broadcasting that will get you this of indents journalistic version of little bits of high spec then the next level release this year you've got French and Saunders Alan Partridge Louis Theroux I mean you know the names people have heard of but they're doing the kind of shows that you record remotely over Zuma Doncaster that money that's not what happened in the saved.

I mean I mean obviously there's a lot of shows nominated here and it's easy to pick on the shows that got big name's Alan Alda a student ratios but equally you've got shows like hunting delain or transmissions that

Story of Joy Division in a diesel diesel well-made show that mean hunting Lane as you know they've done exactly that model of selling the TV rights you know it's going to come and many many others you know where is George Gibney or you know and then even with the studio shows I think you've got a really good quality shows like how do you cope with Edison John you know these are not just a couple comedians larking about that has a purpose and that is very much in the best religion to some of the best studio they shows we're coming out the States ok.

Let's talk about advertising and last year's add crunch have been confirmed as terrible according to figures released by the advertising Association last week.

It shrunk by 7% overall in 2020, but it wasn't equal national newsbrands down 24% regional news brands down 35% magazines down 29% That's pretty scary percentages on the radio and TV comparison quotes about 12.6.

0.8% by comparison, but they are terrible figures for regional news Alex let's start with that because they've already in Dire Straits before coving and also if you think about every national news band has an entire team dedicated to maximizing CPM and RPM and every other dimension and it will be at the Google and Facebook and a large part of that market the optimisation and the code in that goes into making sure that functions correctly with user experience with user journeys the amount of working at the minute means the technical detail and getting getting that revenue from Google from Facebook from wherever it is an art form, and if you have those people which you are less likely to have friends means that you're not going that means you're not going to have those new forms of revenue sponsored content partner.

Content coming in and it's a quick it's a very steep learning curve for me even watching it.

I do so if your original hasn't added that before was the pandemic just brought into your nuts.

You're not going to be able to innovate quickly enough to cope with the nationalist brands should be clever people that marry out of work with the algorithm.

Is it just at the stories only if you're such a relatively small number of people you met 4000 people who pick on the story about the football match at the local school, but no one else in the world is and I don't know might come down the gdpr regulations so if arching integrated a really solid data policy where you can track people across those environments ethically and legally then cpms you can share that data with Google and you can tell that goes out more exactly from the data.

That is looking at from from the from the traffic is down.

It's just the revenue associated with them is so far and because people are turning to different places and the local music needs to look to subscribers ASDA's most.

It's not the traffic is the revenue that traffic is it is shrinking by the week 0.6% to 614 million PSI mean nothing but you know commercial radio stations in advertising what's going to be the consequence of that you know we've already seen seen schedules been stripped out what else to set it up and then eventually you'll have to start looking at the cost base because it's not much more consolidation that can go on in the industry.

It's not a surprise because obviously you've got a dual attack down on which is music streaming on on the one side and and the very aggressive growth of podcast listening on the other and

So share a vehicle radio station is really you know he's really under attack this moment where people weren't going to McDonald's and Tesco you know flying with Flybe because they couldn't meet somebody advertisers will come back.

What's on of making bad, but I think I think it isn't a lesson there from newspapers which is ultimately if the other sizes go and they find other places to advertise and those and there's a more impactful and generally that does seem to be related around online activities whether you're advertising Spotify all your advertising on a podcast and you know I'm not I'm not sure you are good.

You are good comeback to know the data and information at that you can get around who you're eating by going to those sorts of places as opposed to a radio station where your relying on radio information is just incomparable the wireless model at the moment then and sponsoring shows and sponsoring channels that was saying at the times and the Chris Evans breakfast show and granddaughter than all of that because that does seem to be a vet.

You can do instead.

I mean I mean you know well done to them because they've looked to innovate.

You know genuinely I have no idea commercially whether that works for them or or not.

They're paying for something.

You know some really Talent there and obviously times radio and with Virgin big names involved there, but equally News UK have deep pockets and can afford to invest and and and and and hopefully slightly longer.

So you know I don't know whether it will only works, but I think I think commercial radio in many ways has needed innovation on lots of France and certainly news ukra.

I think I'll doing that Alexa rubbish perfectly at home talking about Google algorithms.

I like it when we put you into an uncomfortable place and make you look at us up fronts it did everything catch your eye from the US networks the Showcase in around for the new and returning series this week.

I think the the diversity thing so the idea that is now financially viable.

I think it is really really interesting.

That you can actually expand putting stories of people of colour on screen and not having to play to a white audience and he's a beautiful and this thing called aspirational content which is once again new phrase hadn't heard that before the idea that we're creating this of aspirate Keeping Up with the Kardashians but you are selling dream of these lies Robert Maxwell real life which has a person who lived and died with documentaries surprise MB escape inspirational fair Summer by the little blue skies, is is a couple of relatively innovative things babe.

You look at the list of things been towns around is a remake of ghosts the BBC comedy.

There's a new version of The Wonder Years you could say is a bit of inclination towards comfort food TV here safe, it's even with.

It's with an all-black family, so that's really interesting and frankly you can't want to see the same sort of attitude innovation coming from British TV and it still seems to be with me.

You know yes with my night isn't but also with wider innovation it often seems to me that you know a lot of that does seem to come in scripture stuff seems to come from the States Australia Australia network ABC is done a deal with Google and Facebook to use their content following millions into supporting their journalism.

I suppose I'm sorry to sort of asking you know from 20.

What does this mean for us for us? What does it mean for the way things might go in the UK you were saying last time you around the Australia's Got a safe place for the likes of Google and Facebook to push the envelope because it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things for them.

you can us this this freedom of the press thing that the UK and the US and so you know that idea as lost all meaning and but if you are going to start invoicing new sites for Host hosting their content Google is more likely when it's gonna start costing and we'll revenue you just pull up and see what happens like Google and Facebook are most like to start playing chicken with news providers and in the UK and the US specifically because whereas Australia provides in the 20th biggest country when it comes to Google and Facebook traffic, but you get back to the question of whether I'm not on Facebook more than I think Google and Facebook and identity so I think the actual decisions made by Facebook and Google could be very different so where as

Which publishes game traffic from Google is different from the percentage of traffic the game from Facebook which wasn't the Case 5 years ago? How much power Google has and how much Facebook has a very careful very not to the A&E tradesecrets, how if you're using the UK that Facebook trying to get on good terms with publishers and pay them for that content Google News initiative from Google and which is a form of Article that they've put open source of smaller publishers can build their website 20-amp and to make si quicker and more friendly to Google that deal by itself does not have any impact in the UK us and it would take a snowball effect if another country started following it could have a huge impact spot the biggest play hair the us and I can't see the US moving and then in that case the UK is is going to be bombed along with any changes and the United

Unless there's real political pressure Steve I mean and obviously the richest companies in human history, they could afford it is a bit weird.

They could afford it, but obviously it to their bottom line.

They're not probably be willing to afford it every country.

Well.

I think I think it goes more back to the middle part of your sentence there the richest companies in the world and that gives them a lot of sway at in terms of what they do or don't need to agree.

You know I haven't got a wider perspective not because I'm about to the journalist wisdom of Alex use of immersed in this world and you know what Alexa saying Australia's biggest market.

I think I think you said you know can you really see this applying in the US you know don't think so, let's talk about something really very firmly in your wheelhouse Steve apple subscriptions for podcasts.

They have landed now and only that fillet deal as well.

What does that mean publications in the UK use it as something else well, what the affiliate deal means is that you can you can recommend someone you know you can pass list.

Subscription and benefit as the as these as the program or you know the company was passed that person on you get part of that parcel that payment so you're encouraging your advertising promoting and pushing apple subscriptions and incentivize to so they do so which is obviously a really sensible move to do especially with a new product that's being launched because there's going to be with his rival things we still quite worked out as podcast as are we telling people subscribe and then you do it across platforms maybe Spotify maybe patreon as well.

What do you say specifically go to Apple vodkas because that's where you're getting your affiliate fee well that the biggest thing about Apple subscriptions is obviously the scale patreons grey and it's got a great business model and obviously is a business.

It's nothing really valued Spotify obviously very very ill, but you can't get away from the from the amount of devices that have apple podcasts on them and therefore the ability to reach and new podcast listeners as well as existing ones and obviously.

Small percentage of those into subscribers because I think probably that's that's like any construction freemium model that's what it's going to be there's only a small number of people willing to pay to get an ad-free show show with extra content or some other benefit.

You know I I actually I think we have done is is really smart you gonna use it yes.

Yes absolutely I am I gonna use it as a company.

We are absolutely getting behind it and you know trying a number of different shows on it and and the number different ways of doing that we know we have we're together that will form the channel.

We doing other shows as individual shows that you can subscribe to and we really keen to sort of play around with it and she just see what sort of metrics.

We get back in and what sort of what amount of users we get back so we can get some learnings going this is the messaging really clear two listeners though, because that seems a lot to take on board if you're just a passive someone who just download the show to phone you.

Do this thing or are you just letting the Apple podcast uses just seen the big button and press it you know I'm not sure it's the right question to ask it's not necessarily about a day one impact.

I mean super super aggressive and interestingly in the UK we're not a penetration.

Yeah, you know we're not about 50% of people who every week.

I listen to podcast got a long way to go still and so you're trying to affect the behaviour change and a cold changing therefore.

That's not a day one thing that's about that.

That's a long-term thing about how you start to impact on the behaviour of podcast listening patreon and moonclerk and those kind of companies have actually got the hipster bit covered there like there's something more corporate.

Isn't there about doing it via apple podcasts which might put some podcast listeners you feel like getting an elite club supporting something indie might put them off people will go wherever their favourite podcast.

Sorry about that if they're on they have to go and have a look it up on Monday after on Spotify Spotify money if there an independent and Celeron patron or wherever else that's all go to give money.

I think people and more like if you look at the Joe Rogan had on Spotify and how many people flocked over to the network like every all people and speaking to content content Netflix moment of work podcast go.

I don't believe that has been recorded by also the hipster market the ones you already paying for podcast and so it's all of this emerging market of the older audiences although other less.

That's nonsense new technology familiar that's fine for people with an iPhone maybe you might might be then you.

The most avant-garde thing we do on the media podcast is a course the media quiz the highlight of every edition of The Show and we have reached that moment this week.

It is entitled second thought in this role.

Play I Will Be James Bolam you are all Lynda Bellingham I will try and Weasel my way out of a number of established trends in the media or you have to do is work out what the new situation is with hilarious consequences of your name when you know the answer so Alex you will say Alex and Steve you will say Steve clear.

I mean I've literally never seen second thoughts.

I'm just reading her script rest of 3 so let's play I know you like the old name but I thought it had a bit more exclamation.

No, I'm not having a midlife crisis.

What story my Parrot through the medium of James Bolam

Hear story number to but what is it is my excuse of course I still love you.

I just happen to think that 10:45 was a bit too late to start having a serious competition Alex is moving back to search vampire movies maybe back from 10:45 to 10:30 p.m.

I like camping I really do but all the kids do these days is sit in front of their screens.

Endlessly trying to log into a stream.

Let's just watch Eurovision what's the story with parodying excellently buzzing with your name when you know Alex Alex is this about Glastonbury trying to stream a festival and not being able to stream the festival because apparently nothing can never work correctly and media types of being saying about how difficult is destroying things.

Yes, it is exactly that story and hilariously hear it being discussed on 5 Live at the weekend and their streams all failed while.

Power bowling it was Glastonbury and fell on head past 50 months been terrible losing all on music festivals have been terrible Glastonbury is the greatest music festival time they tried to do something to sort of replacing I mean to just have something there.

It's clearly been very popular and people wanted to watch it and and and pay for a ticket for it.

So yeah, I got massive affection for Glastonbury so I just want everything to work for Glastonbury I really hope that they're back next next year in in in top in top style.

I will see you at where we found it, but I'm afraid you have lost Alex is the window with that tram from second answer congratulations Alex thank you very much.

The media podcast is totally independent which is why we went down the 90s sitcom route for our quiz we are beholden to no-one that you if you can look forward to support it then had to be medium donate to a new episodes when I drop on your podcast of Joyce you can subscribe for free for now at portfolio.com the media podcast volume down the producers methill and Peter price.

It was a rethink audio and PPM production hello.

I'm Jessie Ware from table Manners the podcast now here with my mum died and we have a special bonus episode table manners coming to you sponsored by Sainsbury's taste difference autumn edition range check it out.

We talked to the fantastic broadcaster and entrepreneur Laura Jackson

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