Read this: Times Radio, Greatest Hits more in ratings shock - the RAJARs are in!

Love This podcast support this show through the a car support a feature.

It's up to you.

How much you give and there's no regular commitment just hit the link in the show description to support now hello welcome to the media podcast on the Saturday it's a range of special know might come back and I don't remember over half a billion pounds of advertising rest on the radio to the lifesave the southern during the pandemic.

This is the industry's first insight that they've had for nearly 18 months and I'll likely impact Media businesses beyond audio to shuffle.

How did well we'll be speaking to launch directors to go for another research who launched the new station boom radio and what it all means for their businesses house, Graham Norton where the young people and has coronavirus been BBC local radio saviour that's all coming up in this edition of the media podcast.

Enjoy me today is the co-founder of being radio and former head of Christmas radio Phil Riley now.

We're recording this on Wednesday the day the figures were released the stations put before the embargo is lifted on Thursday Phil did you get much sleep last night before getting your numbers? No, I had a very very restless night.

I woke up this morning and went shopping to do some display to try and just take my mind off the fact that we were so close to radio name is having his been 560 years since I had the cold sweat ever radio night radio morning, so it was pretty nervous of giving up all of this.

Why did you think I'm going to get back into anyone's radio station David Lloyd's to doing it? I was quite happily to be doing a bit of Consulting and helping out people here in the end.

He persuaded persuade me to jump back on board with.

Review and it's been crikey what a rollercoaster of a ride.

It's been away if we launched in 2021.

We launched literally 6 weeks before this radar survey started because extended Q3 some data from April and stick it in there.

So literally was 6-weeks old when this survey started so I think I'm pretty pretty well to be a little bit later on also back on the shelves and Charles from radio techcon in November don't know and what have you got lined up so radiotek on is the UK radio and audio Industries technical and Engineering events, so it's the place to be if you want to know about the future of radio or if you work in technology and engineering or your producer who enjoys putting text to the Limit or a manager who wants to know what's going on 29th of November we're back in a virtual format again this year, so we've got a pandemic.

Tickets so the £99 plus VAT but we also have a bursary scheme running and the closing date for that is the 31st of October so if you have had a particularly difficult Mick and you know you're facing financial issues or you're just from her background.

That's really underrepresented in broadcast engineering then you can go to our website you can apply.

There are 11 places available so a huge proportion of our we have to buy schemes for about 10% of our audience is there on and assisted place and a really nice thing this year is at the bursary winners are also going to get a free is membership to the Radio Academy as well, so that's a nice bonus to but you should come anyway for all of our talks and sessions and if you buy ticket you get a special box in the post as well you going to get you are going to get it booked in a place to get a whole day of amazing talks.

We can have a really interactive virtual form as well and the virtual pub in the evening cos we are engineers after all.

Listening figures for the radio industry, which unlike telly which has the overnights research well radio hasn't had any data since March 2020 But The Voice start sifting through it some necessary production to round up all key data in a section.

We're calling the Roundup comes out well.

We can 637000 TopLine Virgin Radio numbers of good with 1.6 million written as a week on the last data probably driven by Graham Norton's 560008 new weekend show me to Chris Evans who drops below a million just above a million is Simon Mayo has nearly 1.2 ml on the new Greatest Hits radio drivetime show there is great numbers from BBC local radio a million listeners.

This is crazy of England after previously being pretty much in long-term to quite a big change for them already a form really rude health with similar figures for last time.

Radio one seems to have lost a large chunk of its audiences 15 plus which is now 8.2 million and not great news for kiss either who lost a quarter of Alistair's and a third of their hours Now by 31 and kiss with affected by 15 to 24 dropping back for all already listening that 8% of the letter from TuneIn to the radio and listen to his dropped to it's down to 16 so fill first off your station boom radio 233000 weekly listeners and 1.8 million.

Hours.

Is that what you expected? It's way more than we expected I said to myself and to David if we get a 6-figure number will be ok.

We are a start-up bunch of old age pensioners in our bedrooms basically doing this bunch of mates trying to try to do something literally.

Starting assholes at by bootstraps without any corporate backing without huge financial resource, just relying on a bit of pr.

A bit of boxing here and there and so to get you know almost a quarter of million listers right off the bat particularly as I said that because this survey covered the period from 6 weeks after we barely barely two sides of at listers at that point so they all of that taken into consideration not only is the reach fantastic but actually average 87.8 I was looking at the radio national listening figures with pretty much up there.

There's maybe two or three stations got better average hours and that the 7.8 is pretty punchier thing for a for a launch station, so if you no give me the quick elevator pitch for Furby BOOM radio.

Where are station name the baby boomers people from their mid-to-late 50 through to the early mid 70s we designed to fill a gap that commercial radio really has not done so far.

We're also obviously aiming to try and attract those people for whom Radio 2 shift younger which we'll know about means that they feel perhaps a bit disappointed by what music offering the BBC has for them and so far certainly that all the evidence so we've got is that we are pulling buy large 60 70% of our listings.

Are you listening many of them completely giving up radiator? I mean ready to still a huge station has done very well in the survey, but very early evidence is that there is a real appetite out there for what we're doing and hopefully we can prize more listers away overtime and demos wise have 50 + 55 + demos what's Union yeah?

5 + is almost 90% of all of our listing is 55 + and pretty much a third is 5564 two-thirds 6574 which given were not already 6274.

That's exactly what you'd expect to be the overall number so actually one of the things we were worried about was whether or not people over the age of 65 might just trouble the Finders because they just a bit you know all the perception is there a bit technophobic but actually they seem to have a pretty well and I'll listening is almost 50 50 split between day DAB and online so almost half of all that listing is online which I think goes to supporting this general view that actually the pandemic has caused an awful.

Lot of older people to really up their game as far as being digitally aware and being capable of using digital devices because they've had two and that I think it's pulled over.

Radio and and actually had a broader level.

I'm in the big winner out of these this survey compared to a couple of years ago is online listing which is up 40% to think with their dad's up 10 online is the 4th and analogue is down about 20.

I think if you compare it to the same survey in 2019 platforms in a bit.

I'm looking at the overall picture of a slight drop back in listening to commercial radio and the BBC is sudden it a little bit ahead a public broadcaster in a time of this is so does it is it saying something else? I think that it is probably because of the pandemic and people wanting access to information and speech and having a slight interruption in their normal routine.

So definitely people tuning in to listen to more people listening to briefings getting updates and having those people who were furlough just having some more time in the data.

Have a listening and two.

After a commercial station if you've got a really tight rotation in music is not something that people are designed to be listening to for long periods of time anymore and Times of music so yeah, it's good use for speech content.

I think consumer change hasn't over this period and it's not like with particularly all gone back to what life was like in the before lots people an hour split between home and work and strong for radio people have got a bit more control at Home Havant then they can choose how they listen be a bit more easier than they can in the office so it does seem that there's been a massive drop-off in listening overall which is good news.

Just potentially the balance of how people are listening and I know that we've got some slight differences in how the figures have been collected the

I guess you're going to come to you in a bit for you talk about platform there, so I had a quick look platforms earlier and to me the thing that really sort of stuck out with that analogue with me.

So what's the new to the ratio of research world, do you think what are we talking about two numbers that we look at me look at which which is how many people tuned into a radio station and then we look at ours which is that the volume of something for advertising is connected to H and H logs hours are people listening to am FM radio is nearly down to a third of listening.

So like a two-thirds of all listening now isdigit and as you said there people listening on the internet internet now has about third of the country tuning in listening that way and the hours consumes gone up from 10% to 18% This is fundamental shift.

Isn't filling to help people are consuming the wireless.

Yeah, I don't think it's going to change.

I think the trains that was seeing I just going to accelerate that and the thing of course that's driving this online growth is the rise of smart speak because it's so easy for somebody to buy a Smart speaker plug it in and say play Boom radio and put your name of your smart speaker before it and that works and I think that's driven a lot of are listening and I'm glad that we launched at a point in time where this new platform for radio consumption has become mainstream and people understand that Alexa play something and I think as well as smart speakers.

You're also seeing people a bit more comfortable about using apps and phone apps and we certainly as well as smart speaker see people saying honey.

I've got me on my phone and you know I just did you all day on on the phone, so it's a remarkable turnaround from 1015 years ago.

Can only get more more driven? I think my smart speakers the expectation from that industry is that they're going to be selling millions, please devices millions more of these devices every year and I would expect this Christmas is going to be a huge up ticking in in numbers and you don't you you need to have a smart speaker strategy.

I think is a radio station to take that I was looking at the Boom radio how to listen page.

It is a long page.

Yeah, there is out.

There is a lot of different platforms without an explanation on there.

Haven't is, this.

Is that trouble for you your communication is Usain older audience who getting to use these things and son that's driven by speaking to family on zoom over the pandemic or upgrade it upgrading their phones.

I think I need a hand holding a bit more so we have to do a bit more of that.

Hopefully were pretty good at that, but I think it's also just simply the fact that you can now and people do kanchi re.

Via analogue radio sets which we're not on but digital radio 6 weeks.

We are on and we are one of those or hybrid radio stations were on DAB plus across the country but also on DAB in London just historic accident and that causes ASDA need to explain things more two people but you can get us on your PC on your laptop on your iPad on your phone on your smart speaker, so there are just so many more ways now for people who consume radio that you really do need to think about how to hold their hand and I suspect we come at this because were brand new thinking really right from the get-go.

How do we help people find us I suspect a lot of traditional broadcasters who been in the business for a long time and who's platforms are DAB and FM principally probably have thought about streaming and online.

What's a nice to have add-on? I think they're going to have to change that for you because I think online is going to increasingly become a very significant part of their their broadcasts audience collection Alex Grey revenue as well.

Isn't it with online listening special appointment.

You haven't had radar those there's ads in your stream.

Which dynamically bring you in a bit of Bacon has been saved by the great people at the docks who done a tremendous job for a so hats off to them and long may that continue and because we got this interesting split between data Revenue and dab revenue.

We've now got two different companies selling are there timemaster should be fascinating for us to see how those two revenue streams compare, but is obviously the central part of selling yourself to add agency.

So we're just so thrilled that we've

Some radio numbers in now and can now go and talk to agencies in and get them to come on board as well because up until now so maybe it is imported directly via Dax but we can't touch you until you get some numbers which is so frustrating but now we can at least go out and shout about boom radio2you Phil is still use the launch director of times radio.

He's not executive editor at wireless and co-host of The Times Radio breakfast show his reaction to his numbers.

I think it's slightly beyond my expectations you never notice our first radar very strange times.

This is the sort of quarter that the summer as well.

She don't quite know what's what's going on in a we've been waiting for this for 1560 and 60 months ago, so we don't quite know what to expect but the feeling we have is this is pretty good.

We're pretty happy with it.

It's the first and hopefully a whole series of.

Thanks for the number is 637000 weekly listeners return your breakfast everyday.

We get a radar within by the end of the year really in a lot of our planning was based on finally our number quite quickly and we never have done and we've been looking at numbers like the connect to listen you never know you're racist you never know how many are your day been compared to your connection is a bit in the dark.

We felt that about this time 500000 Spar I think for us and he was going to be that way out to be a bit more and I think 637 Phil's feels good and I think what you know.

There's people walking around x ready with the spring in my step have the commercial got the results of the time.

Results come out this very weird.

I never done it before actually so all we went to a floor in the in our building bunch of people huddled around the computer and all of the wireless numbers came in the Times radio page wasn't there number 2 x radio and then it came out and then we got the exact it's like with the commercial guy for wireless.

I'm just trying to sell x Radio 2 sponsors completely blind and the fact that he got Goosebumps I think was probably the number for a little birdie.

Told me that you advertise as I've been told the it'll probably be around half a million.

So if you are lower than that you'd be sending cheques back to them.

I'm sure it's a difficult game is 30 p 30 companies month expenses in the first different shows in the first 1560 months, isn't it? Because you know that it really know who?

Listening to us and I think that what we had a feeling of with the we felt there's an audience there and we also tell the people if they like cos they did like it and they listen for a Astra H number is it sticky good for over 5 hours a week which is really good for us.

I think we just had this sense and we did funny things like we did competitions response and we got far more responses to be actually thought we never we're more than other people in our building would have you been with bigger with a reaches so it felt that we had this kind of the breakfast shows several things we get quite a lot of interaction.

We have call as we're not phoning station.

We said we never would be but this feeling of a bunch of people out there.

That's what's nice a bit about rage on you and I know it's a funny old methodologies and funny old thing but just a bit of confirmation that people out there.

Is it is it is a good feeling as well.

So you've got them the newspaper the weekly the Saturday Sunday sometimes you've got website does podcasts.

You know this feel amongst all of all products what I think it is we ran out as so everyone else is going to be a digital first business and I think what the time in the Sun it's sometimes a bit come over the last few years very profitable.

They are very well man.

It's business growth the growing digital subscribers and they want to be a digital digital first business in the great thing about digital radios.

We're naturally a digital first transform any news about to do anything structural cos we came out does a digital radio station that live 18 hours or 20 hours a day rather actually not that many competitors are doing that let you know if something interesting happens.

We don't really have much furniture that we have to sort of tiptoe around then.

We are a very live station.

We've got correspondence all over the world.

Thanks for the times and the Sunday Times so it feels.

A kind of Paradigm of a digital first scene in a business that is now digital-first to take broadcasting very seriously so we've always slotted in though.

I was to say it before we launch.

We always fitted felt with the future of the business very well and we perform a couple of functions for the business and one of the main ones is to say here is the journalism of collectively the Times and Sunday Times that helps as we are all content we help them with which probably new audience at a different audience always said we try and do so I think we fit in Pretty nicely with where the business wants to go so pick up on that you what shop is it to bring in cash for the bank account is it drives subscribers? Is it a brands Halo effect you know what's what's your boss saying it needs to be doing all of those things and she wrote a Blog just as we launched perspicacious blog because I think what it said was absolutely right that we've got to try this thing we have multiple.

What we're doing we don't want to just be judged on radio.

We don't want to be just on commercialization because that would have been very difficult for us with 50 months without radio toilet for a purely being judged on how we can get in.

It's a real bar with if the if a currency of sponsorship and commercial activity is radio and you don't get one for your entire life for the first 1560 months that would be a real difficulty a big company with a vision and strategic vision.

We got longevity some hardwired into which is good and it's kind of healthy and that respect but it wasn't the be all and all for one of our aims is to solidify journalism of the Sunday Times in the times at to bring more people to it at to help children.

I mean the Digital Business as you know subscription business so much.

It's about finding people and then keeping them and what we received from somewhere internal modelling that if people subscribe to the times and listen to times radio.

They're less likely to turn because although times already with free.

It makes you even more part of the Gang

The Family part of the community that's quite important for a subscription business, so I didn't we're judged on On reach and listening figures on hours with judged on what revenue now.

I'll bring in on the back of known are the ship so sponsorship and other commercial opportunities and we judged on whether we are part of the digital first brand of the times and the Sunday Times at the minute all of those three things are kind of aligning happens a lot to radio stations very very close to your breakfast show figures.

Are you worried? He's going to come in and scoop up the most listened.

I love I'm really actually I'm really chuffed with Matt remember that 1780 months ago this was just a whiteboard.

We were trying to launch this thing and we're trying to work out who would fit in where we had Matt down.

The early owners of times asset funny quirky show the red box podcast he felt there was a show in embryo already and that's been proven the community and the people when matdoes is showing it goes around the country sometimes been to the party conferences events at Cheltenham loads of people come up to me and say how much they love him the how much they like breakfast how much Delight mariella Frostrup we're always big Callum McDonald is the does the early breakfast looking at headset to Carole Walker and for William John Pienaar job the thing I wanted honestly at the start was a kind of community, where is it always to radio stations each other we really want everyone to do well.

We genuinely quite like each other you know I don't want to work in a place and I've worked in place before people are backstabbing each other people at all about their rego and we're not going to interrupt people we don't want hectoring presenters.

We don't want me me presenters uber.

Turn make it all about them.

We want people who represent the listener and I was using me where useful idiots where kind of people who want to try and ask the questions that other people are thinking when they're listening at home.

So I kind of you.

Go less or he goes small Liga environment was really important to me when were picking people and actually is I'm pleased for him at the emigrate when you started saying it's there to attack Radio 4 which is kind of doesn't doesn't really work.

It's a very different kind of radio beats the operation.

Where do you think your letters of come from one or more closely than I've recently focused on our own figure.

It feels like the sector as a whole is pretty healthy and I said again from the beginning.

I was very keen on the side of Golden Age of speech radio.

I do feel that the golden age of audio.

This country Wetherby podcast Wetherby live radio said it felt to me that we will never obviously going to attack anyone see clearly not sending.

It's got 100 years and and the way to the state around it is just seems ridiculous to even talk about that.

I don't you know I'd like to believe I have the industry recognises this year a good thing for the industry.

We can bring in some people that were listening to it to the radio.

We want to do it for the times you want to do it for everyone everything our success comes at the expense of other people in the first bit of data properly from Radio so we'll have to see I don't get a massive sense.

We know where people are coming from I'd like to think that some of the things.

We've done some people into the industry as a whole radio from from BBC unashamedly commercial is nothing wrong with being Commercials and sniffing and I hope these figures come out.

We people avoid that type of commentary because I think commercial radios people take.

They're not back by anything other than their desire to make the business work and that's a really risky thing in lots of ways in in lots of ways.

It's really credible things you're basically saying he's this product is crafted and we want people to come find us know this is Stage 1 on a thing frozen.

I've got vast ambitions four times already.

I always have they not taking on big leviathan switch just the build something that substantial and I can't help this is this is step one on that one last thing before I go.

Can you explain to me how cement Grace we are happily staying away from the great so I see the stuff and it was clearly the viral thing but we want to achieve growth greater than cement can achieve that's that's the aim of times re-sent and the times aims of a temper reaction to their results saying before that they be happy with half a

Reached but they're message from the start was pretty clear know if they want to get an audience is likely to come off the BBC do you think there a station that has thrived with some audience moving away from radio four or five live? I'm sure they're really really pleased with the result and and it's really nice to have new stations popping up and doing well.

I think that they are necessarily bought as many they got a lot of production staff over from the BBC and there is some natural moving between the two I said listen to them quite a lot when they were newly launched their hours compared to I guess I'll be looking at against 5 live on LBC probably good comparators and so the hours are down compared with both of those and I suppose they are slightly Hanford because they are I think the menu on DAB plus at the online so for example some radio just not going to pick that station up yet some people in their target demographic.

I can't find them my parents and grandparents radios are old enough.

Play they can't access x radio on their on their set at the moment.

So yeah, I mean if they were aiming for half moon and they got 637000 and then they will be really really pleased and yeah.

I'm but I hope the head cakes in the office today.

That's good Phil over 600000 a week.

I presume quite a lot that's avc1.

She seems a pretty viable long-term prospect.

I think they and they were only 9 months old when I've got a pretty good shot at getting to a million and I think hands right that their average hours are lower than you would expect for a Toolstation I suspect that's only because

You're trying to steal listens away from ferry entrenched other stations with fantastic breakfast and then the Radio 4 Today programme and Nick Ferrari on LBC Julia hartley-brewer on talk radio and the guys on Talksport that's where the big hitters are so it's very difficult to prize them away and I think if you if you win at breakfast time you're going to struggle to get fantastic hours.

So they probably picking up a lot of secondary listing which is why the their numbers are not quite as big as they could be put up I suspect from commercial perspective if they could a may be a Millionaire hours and average hours of 10 to 10 million are station then if they're abc1 driven and they sell packages with the times.

They going to do ok on that but as use of said all along that which I agree with parts of the rationale for x radius to drive subscribers to

The newspaper and that's something that they will have internal information on Monday already there.

No you're well.

That's going just said that they're internal data has suggested x radio listeners and less likely to turn out as time subscribers expensive investment can't sit you know stopping turn is potentially very valuable.

Yeah absolutely and I think we're going to see more at partnerships between radio stations in new specs of we've had a couple of Great Park so far with the Daily Mail and the Telegraph and that's principally because our demographics there, so well.

They're times of the aiming slightly younger than boom radio but nevertheless.

I think there is a synergy between radio stations and newspapers that means there's have real synergistic benefit to them working more closely together and certainly.

From our perspective that true and I suspect it's true from the time and of course with the very big radio stations.

There's a slight imbalance there between them and newspapers, but the smaller guys.

We can we can help and not it's not such a huge cash capital drain for a newspaper to get involved with us in the way that it might be with someone conversion figures cos that's something that I was thinking about as well something that would be fascinating to find out but I'll never tell her so they make in terms of their commercial arrangements and not having adverts and all that kind of stuff and having sponsorship deals.

It would be fascinating to see if that has brought them in the revenue stream that they were hoping for and if that's a model the other stations might be able to adopt because it is interesting as they are retaining their subscribers because they've got that brand awareness through listening to the radio because for example there isn't a kind of discount offer on their website if you are radio listener or anything that.

So it must be it's a really good tactic.

So I'm glad that's work for them.

That's really interesting will be back with more analysis is Rachel special after our world be for your help in fact it needs all the help and by working together.

We can do more join business is just like yours coming together for our planet climate change make a commitment to the company 80th annual business could make a real difference to our world as well as to your running costs start your journey to become one step green zero commitment today for the business climate hub.org businesses all over the world right now trying to reinvent how they connect with the world treating patients in a global customer support centre your customers that millions of developers Trust

Communications experiences with phone calls text messages still with Me cover some more, what's the Fallout from these unique set of radars quickfire.

I want you to quick responses to some things that I've noticed pop-up first 15224 they seem to be disappearing at quite a PACE Phil is this an existential threats for the radio sector could very well be a significant problem overtime.

What would be interesting to look at that obviously haven't done the data there here is we been saying 52242 decline for year after year after year after year and we will be going all my goodness.

Real real problem have 25 to 34 or even 35 to 44 remains stable over that time because it was eventually 15 to 20-ft convert themselves into the 25/24 etc.

And so is it just that there are new things at 15 to 24 and want to do but actually over time they become radio listeners by habit my default radio is still very strong over the age of 25 or is it that they lose the attractiveness of radio completely so I think that I would like to maybe have some dinner somebody clever of the moon with more data Analytics skills.

Look at that and say yes, there is a longer-term problem here at fingers crossed there isn't but yes, they may very well be the light demo kissing Radio 1 both quite a bad a bad book this time.

They good radio station to think what they do on the house is interesting is.

Play too good listen.

Kiss 120 changes of the past year which have been positive Radio 1 good refreshed lineup if you were running one of those radio stations, what would you be if you were looking at a lot of reading on your on your audience figures sheet I think I'll be adding to my can we change the way we do the numbers because immediately the managers of those stations and everything but look at how many listing apps or how many people had engaging on our tiktok audio live audio is one part of the puzzle isn't it for those kind of Brands it's possibly also an opportunity to re-engage again with our content because I think that the thing that radio does really well, but it forgets to sell as it's USP is that we really good at live live and dangerous and interactive and that something that other platforms can't manage in the same way so I would be spinning like hell to say it's absolutely fine because we're still got her audience there.

Not sitting down and taking a diary there.

They're elsewhere.

I feel Talents always at the heart of successful radio stations Norton is his first book with Virgin and he's got about half a million listeners a week Chris Evans was a big sign in Heathrow drop below a million and Simon Mayo 1.2 million you Greatest Hits radio drivetime show and Greatest Hits itself.

It's sort of the result of a combination of a load of radio stations about going to be happy with what Simon and Greatest Hits done.

I think they will probably be happy with Greatest Hits I think they'll probably be more frustrated about the fact that after all of that Langstone grief of the Aqua hold separate and how long that whole process taking all the rebranding etc that if you go back 2 years.

They were 40 million hours behind global and you look at it now and they're still.

Not that far off 40 million hours behind global says it'll probably frustration there that so far.

They haven't managed to close that gap and I know you've corporately that will be an important thing because there is no doubt the being the biggest the number one will drive additional revenue to the to the top line and therefore additional profits the bottom lighter.

They will be focused on how how they can you use new brands 22 LeapFrog over global I'm not quite sure they're there yet with some of the headline numbers, but you know it's there in a game of they deserve it all to play for so I think you'll be pleased with the start but I looking at the numbers.

I think there's more to go and it and in particular.

I noticed that the London figure for Greatest Hits which goes to go before absolute on FM quite a sharp decline in terms of the total amount of Reach and listening now that probably some of that to be expected, but they really probably have got a big job there to try and grow that.

Back to where it was him and potentially beyond you know but they got the Talent in inside both in front of the microphone and behind the glass to do that when do £1000000 buying blues radio stations is that the best way to expect that money to build up this network an interesting question is this you can spin that but either way and the certainly a case to be made for saying if we spend 80 million on marketing the brands that we had more effectively would we have delivered the growth that these acquisitions have given us in the revenue that these acquisitions are giving us.

I said you'd never got permission from Frankfurt to spend that money on it.

Was you probably would have got permission spend it on acquiring them.

So they probably you did the right thing that the methodology have a put together this data exchange slightly has there.

Rage open up to three things the first is that they've teamed up with the media sell guys who have a bit of software that's on people's phone is up a relatively small sample.

I think it's about 3000 people who uses mediacell for passive monitoring of what they're consuming on radio and television and that's now being sucked to the rage yard data ecosystem.

They've also because they starting from scratch in knocking on doors is difficult they're gone back to some old Reg are listening and said do you mind participating in a panel and doing this on a regular basis and not I don't think it every week, but it's like once or once or twice in a quarter.

So they got a panel base running along side their traditional knock on doors approach and then finally the knock on door has started again, but obviously with the pandemic and all the other stuff.

That's gone on that's more.

Difficult to get back up to speed quickly which is why they've got these other elements and obviously what they going to have to do is to squeeze all those bits of data together and try and nip them together in a way the Producers something that looks like we used to from radio and actually if you look at the data, you know I did scan 2 years ago vs.

Today.

You're not supposed to but flipping I was going to do it and you think actually it looks it looks like a normal radiator some stations have gone down some stations have gone up but by and large the share between the BBC and commercial is the same that is the same the big groups of this doesn't look as though at all the surface at least it had any significant effect I suspect some of the smaller players may have seen some Celtic shifts, because if you've got panels panel data will either give you a potential give you the same as a rolling sample but you you do.

The risk that if you're not in the panel your station is in the battle, it's never going to get any scores on the door.

Where is with the Rolling sample well ok? You weren't you didn't you didn't one of your stations this week, but it might do next week.

So I think there are some changes.

They're not but I know that raise your go to work those out of the system over time but I think they're probably looks like doing a pretty good job with the instruction of this camera app data as well.

I suppose you've got that thing of at least it's in some ways more accurate because you know what people are being exposed to and what they're actually in front of them though.

You don't have to have a DJ kind of screaming at the station every 3 minutes.

Just in case one person in the area is listening and put it into a diary but it does beg the question of how much attention that actually paying because of course if you can remember enough further down the line.

To write it down, then, it is probable that you were actually listening it in a more engaged way because there's no real guarantee that someone's going to write down the correct name because we've probably all done that thing haven't by an advert on television for a car and we told her friend or did he the advert for a Citroen and it was actually for a Peugeot or whatever so I suppose.

It's useful to have that data in the mix, but it would be important to be able to operate it out.

So that we know which type of record is which for Anna analysing it more properly because of nature of stations and known so many companies services or observations during different job is quantity of audience the be-all and end-all of of research.

Is there something else that the sector should be doing this brings me into it.

I have had for a number of years that one day.

I should turn into a blog post, but yes, I don't think measuring just pure numbers.

Is is the only thing we should be looking at so yes, it's useful to know.

You've got but the BBC at one point and I think sometimes in telly do some rapid overnight appreciation index school, so it actually looking at how much your audience actually liked the program because that can give you some useful information in terms of if you have had something that's been played out an unusual time of day perhaps of the lower listenership, but that audience really loves that can give you some hints about what to rebroadcast a different time or to sell to advertisers.

It's kind of her podcasting works isn't that you build up a really loyal audience who love and I think with all of these numbers that go on you can get very much into the danger and that you look at numbers and you try and reverse engineer your content based on data and allow people to actually make programs that are based in passion and creativity and you'll never find out what the audience actually really liked because 100000 people who apps.

Love what you're doing is quite a different prospect from 2 million Hooda tidying the background and it's a bit me so I think we should be looking at equality and appreciation score in our mix of figures and we should be looking at that as well as just the how big is it brings us to the media quiz which this week? It's entitled the media mystery voice a classic radio 2nd special short clip.

Do you have to tell me who it is and why they're in the media news of this week, so three rounds buzzing with your name if you know the answer so and we'll say an Anthill say.

Phil it's play the media mystery voice what you can do grosicki let's replay that clip for the everyone what you can do feel ok film.

What would I collect that that's Mike Graham on talk radio interviewing a campaigner one of the eco campaigners from insulate your loft or whatever they're called and and Mike manage do I think he was he was caught sure because he asked what he did for a living and the guy said I'm a carpenter and almost 99% of all jobs.

Had my cast of all of the job might couldn't have found a way in are you drive a lorry for a living to you or your work give you search peoples take it as a and you can feel a way of getting under the skin of the guy but

Carpenter so he works with would you know a naturally reproducible non energy-intensive technology and I think it just literally floor him and it this interview last at the minute and he's just thought of you just ended it well.

Thank you very much goodbye and for whatever reason for whatever reason somebody I can talk radio decided this was a clip worth circulated.

I don't know whether they might need to circulate it, but that went viral because it was just such a funny piece of piece of audio some reason why that's true, but obviously maybe alternative facts and should sort radio sponsors be delighted.

This is become a meme and the social media team.

You went into it.

It was an unusual clip to highlight and share but I suppose it's work because we're all talking about it now.

Aren't we so it depends what their overall goal is to my social media strategy all ok.

Let's hear clip number 2.

Anne Anne that sounded like Laura kingsburg, there are was why she been in the the media news this week in the garden, so it's almost definitely true that she'll be stepping down as BBC political editor in order to follow the well-worn path of then having to get up at stupid oclock in the morning to present today on Radio 4 correct.

Phil it's difficult time to leave that political editor job is that is all.

It's not happening.

Is it a good day good time for her to move on? It's difficult because this talk about her going to do the Today programme should be presenter 6 on the Today programme and the number of people that they have the rotation the roster.

I personally think she's great on the TV I actually love watching her is the political editor.

I think some of the documentaries that she did around brexit were absolutely.

I really will miss her because I think she genuinely is but I don't know which way she voted I think she's a generally neutral person and people on the left and the right thing she's on the other side and data for it, but I think she's great and and I will miss her being the BBC Sport that if you just stepped down ok, let's hear clip the number 3 the time to change the nature Channel 4 is now before it falls over.

What's the clip? Yeah? That's that's Micheal grading talking about Channel 4 and it's potential privatisation which he is in favour of I think the weather is in favour of it being owned by a giant American golfer.

I don't know but I know he's generally and and interesting the argues that the the the very thing that set it apart and made it brilliant, but it was when it was launched his something holding it back now and I think.

Very will have a point.

There are the Channel 4 does known its IP can't compete for content in the same way that the other players around now can and therefore I think there's some merit in the argument that he himself might be part of one of the beds for Channel 4 so Michael grade is six on the government's Public Service Broadcasting panel.

He's got a bit of a roulade Channel 4 ready isn't a bit of a conflict of interest him.

Maybe trying to sleep in and pocket it for a private equity company.

Told not to say anything nasty about Michael break.

He's obviously a member of the great the Goodness doing fantastic things but conflict of interest is almost his middle there, but let me know but he's jumped from PC to the commercial sector back to the BBC Bitesize government back to being a regulator back to being a broadcaster.

So often it's difficult to see anything couldn't be a conflict of interest given the that it is background but you know the end of the day.

He's he's older than me and David Lloyd's so here we can do it and he wants to have another girl then you can do it too.

Thanks.

Phil well with two answers correct that makes you the media quiz with do I get a trophy yep, it's in the post absolutely definitely ok today with my banks than Charles Phil Riley and Stig Abell if you've enjoyed it episode why not bonus the price of gin and tonic at the Groucho just had to the media podcast.com / donate.

Play new episode 2 when they drop on your podcast app for Choice if you don't have one just subscribed Apollo.com / the media podcast it will send you somewhere useful my asthma and you can find the newsletter at the audio industry and more and Matt decanter.com write another thing tonight.

It was a recent audio PPM production will see you in a fortnight.

Hi Jane Easter from the Daily News podcast smart 7 stage where the market Leader for integrated accounting payroll and payment systems put a lot of effort into supporting the ambition world entrepreneurs and small business advice blog and now the sound Advice podcast posted by business journalist and author Blackburn calendar that really focusing on answering the questions you get started to get you one in business right from Sage hosted by Bex burn-callander find sound Advice get you one in business right on Apple Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.