Read this: The tabloids claim a scalp

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts hello, I'm Clive myrie, and this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 hello few Wallace coaching program.

We have for you today a real scoop BBC bags top newspaper execs to discuss all things tabloid and mass-market the headline have are red tops.

Got their Mojo's back the sun front page last week that ended Matt hancocks coming at career at least for now was a classic splash not seem too often since the cloud of the phone-hacking Scandal descended over Fleet Street the story had it all and illicit relationship.

Keep ocracy and alleged cronyism a dynamite combination that ultimately cost Mr Hankey is job.

Maybe the ingredients were quite right when it came to other recent scoops like the mirrors Dominic Cummings trip to Barnard Castle all the daily mails investigations into covid and care homes no head.

Old after those exclusives, but is there now a real sense despite inevitable issues over circulation and revenues that Fleet Street is back to its pugnacious.

Well.

I told you we had a scope 3 of the biggest beasts in Fleet Street now join us for their Media show debuts take about Victoria Newton editor-in-chief of the sun and sun on Sunday Victoria hire a classic turn light on on your front page the day after English footballers beat Germany 55 years of hurt.

Never stopped us Rahimi long.

Did it take to come up with that one it took him about 2 seconds Tobin great to have you here?

Market newspapers across the board and Emily Sheffield editor of the evening Standard hi there Emily I'm very well.

Thank you celebrate your 11-year anniversary this year congratulations as editor your predecessor George Osborne drop the word London from the London Evening Standard my mum in what would you find interesting in the Londoners diary or the my London section at the back of the magazine you got to try to make it out to be a national publication.

I took over I've double down on all things London excellent alright.

Ok, the sun's Hancock school.

We've gotta get into that have we that's the only place to stay already a contender for story of the Year the paper showed Matt Hancock in a steamy Clinch liaison, whatever you want to call it with his a Gina coladangelo and the images appear to have been to.

CCTV footage filmed in Mr hancocks government office Victoria Newton simple question, how did the sun get the story who said he had information about Mr Hancock having an illicit affair with an aid and the Whistleblower was outraged behaviour departs that I can't tell you why but the hypocrisy he felt he was seeing was that this is a man.

Who'd been on National TV the down the barrel of the TV lens and said he must stay at home protect lives protect the NHS and had 18 months of social distancing rules that he himself was not following so that was how the Whistleblower got in touch with us.

Do you have any qualms about the story and in particular using the video? Yes of course my wee wee?

Believe in responsible journalism and you know my first thought this information came in as my goodness can this be real? Can you really be doing that 15:00? I literally couldn't believe it, so we have loads of checks and balances that we we have to follow procedure.

We got our legal team involved immediately to get advice from them before we went any further and then obviously once we've seen the for myself to match up images of Matt and Gina together on their day-to-day working lives that are ready make sure that it was definitely her and it was 100-percent soon as I saw it I knew that this is you watch the video is mannerisms everything there was no doubt but then I went to make sure we're in a good position to go to run the story.

Yeah, I mean how's your collar been felt by the police or Secret Service about how you got the footage.

We conducted the story how we ran it and you know we consulted top lawyers before we went to publication you mentioned the Whistleblower what steps have you taken to protect so so we did you warn them about possible repercussions and all that of course we would always do that.

We would never reveal a source.

I've done everything I can to protect that person and you know I'd rather go to jail and the name over ok, but did the phone-hacking Scandal give you pause for thought over using that footage leaked from a private offices.

It was always an issue, but the overwhelming public interest with Disco blindingly obvious from the start didn't need to tell me that I could just see it there for myself.

That whole period you know things have moved on since then and we are hugely compliant company and a lot of checks and balances in place and we will have training so I don't think we're in the same place, but the public interest for me whatsoever social distancing but you still hasn't really answered that question publicly admitted to the social distancing breach and I think we're still waiting to hear from him on that one.

Yeah, I mean the public interest point you you make their very compared to marriages and now in trouble children are involved.

Would you run the story involving the Health Secretary if there was no pandemic.

I think we probably would but because I would be looking at the issue around when he hired her would have to be clear on that I guess.

The families we went to Great lengths none of the children were named in the story after day one of the story but I took off photographers and reporters off that home address.

You'll find other papers still carried on running picture shows not to the wife, so you know that the public interest but I think I think this is not just a story about sleep.

That's right.

It was interesting actually the next day the BBC couldn't quite work out.

How and when to follow the story so we managed to keep the story back from our print edition still really late and we didn't put it on 1 in the morning.

So nobody knew about it till I woke up by 9:20 the BBC was still reading on a story about some missing pigeons missing they were obviously story or is it in the public interest then eventually they they caught up.

Victoria no comment on that no common at all Emily if I could talk to you after the story broke you ran a front-page in the standard featuring a very large picture of Mr hancocks wife, why do you decide to focus on that side of the story about what he would be under fire for and following very much what Victoria said this was clearly public interest we also remain big questions remain was he in a relationship already when he hired her and we debated actually for an incredibly long time and I was it was always stories.

I might say break when you are in the middle of something else.

I was actually doing some filming.

I wasn't on a edition.

I was to move on WhatsApp

Was and I went back and forth about this and I can't give too much detail is that maybe she was not entirely of us to bring photograph right.

Ok? Can you lose today? No, no ok? She wanted to get her side of the story out there that she's you know.

I I really like you a lot of particularly my early decision was not interested very much feel you know the right people should be taking the public it right ok? Well, of course we hear what you're saying yours around stories on Mr hancocks wife Martha as well.

Why did you decide to go down that road in the case of the story she is absolutely at

as well because aside from the political scandal and the implications that come from that is a very very human betrayal as well, and I think actually that there's no reader who won anything but the upmost sympathy for a woman in her position, so we did that as I said we are fully about how we go about that and sympathy and support for her but as you say that there's a question about going forwards with no I hope that she has to rebuild her life and her children's lives as she chooses know absolutely my Victoria you know you talked about not focusing too much on Martha in the days after the the brilliant scoop but you at did set a hare running there and obviously Emily decides what she's going to do when Tobin and and his folks and everybody else they decide what they're going to do with you set the Hairy

You feel comfortable about that when it comes to the kids and and Martha when you way up do the public have a right to know the Health Secretary has been behaving vs.

The right to privacy of his family and I felt strongly that the Lord chief justice secretary that Lord Chancellors all agree that the story was in the public interest so that's what you were up on a daily basis and stories of course ok, let's go on the discussion a little bit Toby in the mail terms of the quarter old this year.

It's role in public life if you could a particularly in the digital age.

Well, I think fundamentally it's role is to give a voice to the voiceless 22 campaign biggest leave that the causes and beliefs that it's heart and fundamentally to entertain engage inform its readers and a Corsa bubble Chancellors many newspapers as we can or attractive as we can online while sticking to our journalistic integrity beliefs and the passion that we try and bring to Every Story whether it's light or shade the great newspapers the great interview was Humphries beebase sniff out lies.

Hypocrisy unfairness corruption does that sum up? Do you think part of the role of the male Society absolutely following onto the Matt Hancock story we had a brake bulb front page with can he claim on which I think is most people's instinctive reaction other than

The prime minister of the Secretary so, I think it's headlines like that projected with figure that do bring about change in this case change this other stories that be covered with dementia care, whether it's PPE we project With Confidence we get to the heart of the story and we can really impacts and bring about change for the better which way very very proud of doing to your work on covered and care homes, which was superb ball Decker the editor of 3:45 Geordie Greig my 2016 of course he had the headline enemies of the people and pictures of three High Court judges.

Would you have it on the front page today not everyday to make sound judgements and of course.

It's always by my side all day can use the same headline back on speak to him.

He was a tremendously Gifted

It's a fast-paced news wrong sometimes mistakes to get made.

I can't promise I will never get married again, but that's not a risk but we take everyday front pages best always that we cover and we should be afraid of being challenging when we do that.

I mean giving the mission statement that you laid out a few seconds ago that head and that front page didn't seem to fall into the cat that those categories.

Did it really well it provoked a very strong reaction not all of it positive you move forward and there is a new editor at the helm as the paper but doesn't take away from the astonishing Legacy that's all they left behind.

Yeah.

I mean the male seems to be possible kicking down as well as punching up.

I mean you know you're going to go after those who are not necessarily powerful or part of the establishment benefit cheats for instance as fair.

as Matt Hancock

Are there in a different category but I think anyone who cheats the system or indeed who breaks the law risks being held to account standard supply both in public Life and personal responsibility of a different magnitude of events and hopefully we would balance pad out in the way those stories are presented in the paper still be kicking down.

Is it? I'm not sure that's that's entirely different way to I am I make it my conscious decision to work with people on stories of the time and you know I have a brilliant relationships with many celebrities then and I think we do a lot with a very positive Force for good.

I mean so many campaigns.

We've done during the pandemic in the public interest example we got 50000.

To volunteer to help staff the vaccination centres with our jobs army campaign in only are tremendous Force for good and I think it's really interesting over 6-weeks for the pandemic started.

So it was quite a different experience being an editor what other things are really noticed was a huge appetite from the public for information about this terrible coronavirus uplifting newspaper sales and digitally traffic was through the roof and people with desperate for information and they turned to us as newspaper brands as trusted sources and then hand in glove with you have the government tell me to us and we really need your help to get this public service messages out there, so this all of these back into the questions you were asking at the Beginning about the role of mass-market brands and and the pandemic is importantly are absolutely right as mass-market brands.

You can get that message out to as many people as possibly one go I mean Emily evening standards had a

Relationship with the Conservatives and Conservative Party George Osborne of course was editor-in-chief of the standard, is it a political paper incredibly influential in in Westminster Pier ago, we were voted the most read by MPs I think that's got a lot to do with our physical presence in Westminster you literally can't escape us copies are taken by the Westminster doorkeeper to the tea room and other strategic locations when you walk out as an MP or a sad or a door, you know they're in the Tube Station to take a taxi out of the members or members entrance as a big pile.

We even sitting in the underground car park, so within Westminster we are widely read very influential We're breaking off and the time they they they get us is you know between 1:30 and 2 p.m.

And they've got big statements to make that afternoon.

Debates I mean I remember on the first day.

I arrived here which was in July so I joined like Victoria Victoria point during the pandemic and Boris Johnson with a brilliant of lobby, Legend political editor Joe Murphy and as his head age came out the door to meet us.

She had a copy of the standard tucked under her.

I was standing a little bit behind Joseph I don't think he saw me and I know a few slightly bad-tempered words are expressed about half waspishly that day on for Johnson and the paper must have literally just landed.

I also think you know we are the standard.

We've got 500000 copies now going out in the city.

We have done through the whole way through this pandemic.

You can't miss us like we're here physically in a TV that is full of the biggest opinion makers in the country and I know they're trying to change that move people around the country that right now.

That is the case we also a global city that gives us a huge amount of influence in this city.

Are you up for the Conservative Party so I think we would change we would change depending on who we what do.

We thought was best to leave the country.

We didn't come out for Corbyn I don't remember many newspapers coming up for coding so did we did by the way my way before my time come out for Tony Blair so no I would absolutely take each selection depending on who we thought was the right person.

Sorry, just thought as well to take the to take the country forward in the best possible way and that's the same for the mayor as well real impact and Force change they're not just there to win Awards but is that more difficult in an era where politicians tend to try to tough things out resignations shame would say doesn't come as easily to public figures these days because the Hancock story which is silly if you have been taken in Downing Street which is symptomatic of a wider wider feeling I think in Downing Street but they are going to try out ride a media carry on doing what they want not to be held to account by the press and I will buy broadcast media and I think they were.

Humiliated me wrong in this instance be leaders across.

Fleet Street universally condemnation are frontpage I repeat how can he clean on the hold within 24-hours he hasn't had been hope I think in Downing Street Daybreak secret but it would be a 3-day wondering we can all move on but they were very very very long and they paid a heavy price for that Victoria do you think that it's trickier for scoops to really land these days because of what some people suggest is an age where there is any more.

I think some of the other stories that you referring to things like that.

They will see this the Scandal around what did Priti Patel bully her staff was really complicated to understand lots of detail and another terms of Priti Patel one.

It wasn't something that affected the whole country it was a real bat.

How she was.

Didn't affect everybody up and down the country and Away this story did I think that's why it got the cut through because it lockdown affected every single one of us and I think that's the difference ok.

I'm interested now in how scoops might help the bottom line Victoria in the olden days.

Just like yours.

It would have had people rushing to the new stands to get there please of the paper to see those pictures as well, but perhaps you would have got if people bought a physical copy unwell the physical copies of our paper went up considerably that morning on Friday and also on the morning of Sunday morning, which was the day after the resignation so people rushed to the new stand to buy more is obviously during lockdown times that we haven't been able to sell as many copies because shops have been closed thankfully things are opening up now, but digitally it's a fascinating story so that video.

It's actually been the biggest most viewed video in the sun's history and I think the reason for that is that people really wanted to see for themselves? Is it true is it real cos sometimes you can look at the picture and really wonderful.

What's the circumstances? Is it really that bad? Could it have been faked and when you watch that video you know that this is real so the traffic to our website and all over the whole of that weekend was hugely up and newspaper the top of my conference list is Google Search what they looking at on Facebook and Twitter so that informs where we are now on the morning of the Hancock story on that Friday morning all the top items on Google Facebook all Hancock that's when you know it's got national cut through did you pay for the stuff for the video? I need to protect.

Why did I bother? I know I know pathetic really I suppose I want to ask you.

The male, you know it has been tagged bike a including stop funding hate.

Why do you think that is a because it has brave strong very powerful views that not to my amazement, but I think they pick holy the wrong target the Daily Mail amongst other things won the inaugural public service and journalism award the BRIT Awards this year we are read.

I believe a tremendous Force for good not Justin holding the parcel to account but quickly and some of the campaigns that we've done over the particularly in this year with a male horse campaign which raised over 25 million in size for 12-months of PPE and computers for disadvantaged children achievements and testing me really tried to our readers generosity and their sense of Engagement with a brand of them that they really trust and feel as part of the family not not just another thing they.

Hotter than identity shelter beliefs it supports them where things are going wrong and we supplied 42 million pieces of PPE to the Frontline of the NHS which I think is the powerful campaign I was made with your fault over for the Hancock storage.

You think Toby not at this show anyway not on this show Victoria indeed indeed Emily I mean Harry light told my my how is lying to you on commuters returning to their offices and do not worry about Advertiser Boycott because that's obviously you're very your main sort of thing we we are we do want to come back advertisers to feel confident prince advertisers to feel confident that they are being picked up by the usual audience but we have been doing home delivery.

200 and we pivoted on the first day of lockdown, which I think is a standing we kept on the streets the whole way through this pandemic excessive lock Downs and I think that was an incredibly important thing for us to do in as you mentioned earlier Clive We R Us in a paper at the moment, but we can't help a pandemic and I think it was incredibly for all of us here at the standard that we never disappeared from the streets because I I wasn't editor that went into lockdown and you know London empty we're most scary situation looking what was happening in Italy and I see I've grown up with the standard and I think rather like the Red Bus it's like a symbol is like a legacy symbol of of London and I think if we had disappeared that would have been terrible so we have taken a financial hit but we are seeing his coming back some of them.

Hit by the pandemic travel you know we we have big advertising from travel, but we're really confident they all want to return and a paper will return to its normal sickness, but we got the same time I came here more digitally we are seeing much of a younger audience reading digital-only and our revenues there have grown dramatically so as are all audience since I put all my restructures in from the end of October we've gained an extra 8 million unique viewers paper continue to work to get out there on the streets during the pandemic very quick question Victoria has Rupert been in touch.

You must be chuffed well.

He's actually in the UK at the moment.

So I've seen you got for dinner then.

I suspect him.

What a fantastic shows great to see you guys.

Thank you for joining us Victoria Newton editor-in-chief of the sun and the sun on Sunday Tobin Andre

Deputy editor of The Daily Mail and Emily Sheffield editor of the evening Standard the middle show will be back same time next week.

Thank you for listening bye-bye.