Read this: 06/03/2020 Radio 4 Feedback

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts and welcome to a coroner virus-free program apart from noting that cabinet minister, Today programme we started mentioning the Menace again instead we're off to Hambridge to explore the recent child sex abuse storyline which has been much acclaimed has also left one list of a bit puzzled I wanted at the time were The Story writers have not missed the Trick by being too timid to explore possibly forbidden territory that Good and Evil can dwell time is Slane the same and I would come it can I'll be discussing the gym light storyline with arches editor Jeremy Howe and asking him about his first 18 months in charge.

Not playing sailing as the editor you're very well handle the cherry starches with care.

He better the beam has enough problems without antagonising ambridge addicts.

Time does government supporters threaten to kill off the licence fee.

What do you think scrap the licence go to a subscription format and if your programs improve you might just be able to compete let us keep radio accessible to all whilst finding some way of keeping the quality of those business use reflective.

Why did the bait industry expert Claire Enders think so there is a fundamental ideological difference between those who see beautiful impartial entertainment and information is universally accessible as a public service or as a service that should be entirely supplied from commercial and a to come over to be I love radio boys love radio, but I don't like this.

discomforted

we begin with a venerable institution, not the Church of England but something much much more important to the nation spiritual health the Archers have got a recent storyline in the percentage around the character of retired academic employed to finally and also painfully revealed that had been abused as a child the storyline began last summer when she was a child with neighbour was invited to Jim's birthday party without his knowledge.

The consequences were dramatic and there's cheeky by the keyboard of course and behind her I can't stay here excuse me.

Where are you going down this one run over several months we had a pleasure of sorts of couple of weeks ago with the revelation of the gyms abuser with just died at finally been revealed as a paedophile.

Local man accused of historic Jason who died in very recently look and see each other a victim has come forward.

They don't say who North Yorkshire police have been informed that he must have been Michael surely.

It is very welcome.

Of course.

I must admit I'm finding it a little hard to take in.

1-hour joined by the editor of The Archers Jeremy Howe and by the producer behind Jim Lloyd storyline Dave Payne thank you very much for joining us and when and why did you decide on this storyline with put gym and Alistair and jazza together in Jim's house, so we had to kind of Three Amigos we had Alistair's birthday party and we thought there's a lot more gas in the tank here than just comedy gyms always been one of my favourite characters mainly for comedy reasons John Rose was good everything is really good at comedy and I love the little threesome is Jeremy said in that house.

I thought they were very popular with the audience, but they're all such good actors that I felt that they could something a little bit different a little bit sort out of their comfort zone potentially here because if you are you know from the beginning that Jim had been abused and therefore you write the store.

Song in this case you've got the character and then you have to have your work go back and create reasons for his behaviour that was extremely difficult but the interesting thing about it.

Got very little backstory in The Archers why is this man so button down and I think good story comes out of character in The Archers relationship is got with Alistair which is always been really difficult and awkward and I think it's partly my playlist to the way he was as well and always as I said I could gym with someone so interested in trying to give him a little bit more, but I sort of look into the background about that.

We did no because this is such a sensitive area so many people will listen.

We will be in have been affected by issues like this.

What you then do to make sure it's absolutely accurate so even when it was just talked about it quite Lucy as a concept I spoke to the lady called Catherine from survivors, UK who's an amazing woman Auto big artist phone which was handy and she was really.

And said she thinks it would really help a lot of people and was very excited that we were doing it then she asked me who who the survivor would be and I said gin and she actually said that was the last person that she expected but knowing him and tell him for the years the Johnson in it.

She said his textbook is an absolute sort of classic case you have to make sure it fits and Bridge was a lovely episode in the autumn was the birth of Adam and Ian son is a gay surrogacy story there which is full of issues and it's quite serious and it's a birth etc.

Etc and quite a dramatic one and we cut across the flower and produce show where you got Peggy and Jill having a right royal roll and the comedy and the drama sat together really well, if we met at the store and more detail because we've got quite a few comments about Susan Leicester from Middlewich in Cheshire brilliantly and the historical abuse.

To my mind the story handled with great skill.

I'm not sure where Michael will fit in if he will fit in and I hope it doesn't undermine the good work done so far well as the producer of the storyline does Michael have a future is the fellow abuse survivor that in the gym at the graveside is that it for Michael there? I will be featuring the future and we kind of know I never I mean for me the focus was always on gym as a character and that's also why we sort of didn't explore Harold jayston into much detail but she want to keep it very very focused on Jim and his immediate but we think that Michael was probably part of Jim's sort of salvation for want of a better word interesting that we when we started working on that bit of the story we actually thought of bringing Michael back and bring him into average and then we decided actually as they've said is Jim story and so in the same way that our Jason is invisible.

Michael's presence is not part of Jim story is the fact that what he's done.

Give Jim some sense of closure, but as David says stories never-ending the Archers James Wilson originally from London now living in rural France to attend his abuses funeral had all the Makings of a brilliant storyline Jim's last-minute decision not to join the morning after all when he saw how popular the deceased was in his hometown was entirely understandable since it would not have provided as a therapy and the closure gym required at the time whether the story writers have not missed the Trick by being too timid to explore possibly forbidden territory that Good and Evil can dwell simultaneously in the same man after all the history of full of such tragic figures.

So why not the Archers so Jeremy in reflection defeat Mr trick you going to explode the couch with the abuser Harold jayston.

Rather more originally we?

Thought of Jim sitting through the funeral and dad actually it's more powerful.

I think that old Jim needs to do is kind of get the church and see the Crown and shire way if we had explored the nature of the abuser of the abused with had made how Jason part of ambridge because it is in order to make around the character.

He would need to be part of the show and actually what we were interested in is telling Jim story not Harold story.

I think the other things as well.

We were quite keen to play that all through this was Jim's none of the Choices That You Know GM made were incorrect.

We sort of Bernard about gym going to the police pursuit of something that Joanne Alistair and real life families have had been through this encourage others to do but actually what Catherine told us from survivors, UK is that a lot of people are reluctant to tell anybody because they feel that they will then be pressured into going to the police and confronting the past in a way that then.

Suzanne Christian from Wirral I believe the Archers was originally created to help the country's agriculture get back on its feet after second world war it's a curse to me the series seems to be for this public service role in a different more contemporary way, is this a stated aim or is it just naturally evolved Jeremy's at the stated aim for a real aim? We don't have a name.

I think our aim is twofold.

We want to tell good stories and I think the Archers is a reflection of the way we live now in rural England got to be able to find a way of it developing naturally out of character and if it won't develop out of card to you.

Forgot to leave it alone because the story comes first know I think the carrot and then and then we develop stories out of those characters.

Yeah.

I agree.

I think it's never a question of finding an issue and then kind of sticking a pin in the cast list and thinking ok you can we give this?

Think it's gym or any other characters haven't worked for historic sexual abuse storyline it didn't quite make sense of their backs with them.

We just wouldn't have done it at all with it.

We have come up with something else that final quest you Gemma have you been in the last 18 months of course you all about it before and it because you're a commissioning editor for drama in London and son but is the job surprised you I mean is it not quite the job? You thought you found out then? She didn't know even after all this time for the BBC the surprising thing about the job is as the editor.

You are the Guardian the custodian of this extraordinary program and that is an amendment privilege and you realise very quickly how important the Archers is to a lot of our listeners and so as the editor.

You're very weird handle the cherished arches with care and thanks to the editor and the producer Dave Payne please let us know what you think about the Arches and dad interview or anything else to do with BBC Radio and podcast.

This is how you can get in touch.

You can send an email to feedback at bbc.co.uk or write a letter to the address is feedback PO Box 67234 London ec1p for as you can follow activity on Twitter by using at BBC R4 feedback or you can call us and leave a phone message on 03345 standard landline charges apply, but it could cost more on some mobile networks all these details are on our website which we are asking to BBC Radio listeners to step out of their comfort zone's and listen to a program that would normally be on their radar last year's winner mother and daughter on the program and compared their listening habits this week.

We've got a father and daughter Simon and Ariana Hargrave from South London or welcome to the program.

Simon just to get a sense of your taste, so what would be your top TV programmes if you were stranded on that mythical desert island.

I think mine would be free thinking tucked away on radio three decades Martin Freeman and the media and you don't listen to much do as it were conventional radio tall so we've been listening to the radio.

We have enjoyed listening to the News Quiz and my teenage diary.

Thank you for listening to stream radio we asked you to listen to specifically this week Elis James and John robins.

It's broadcast on Friday Radio 5 live at 1 and the addition.

We're going to discuss went out on Friday the 14th, St Valentine's Day everything else know I think I usually have two opinions decades forms for Me by critics the name of thing are living in on it balsa wood.

Legal yeah ok well.

Let me ask Dad first Simon how would you describe the probe experiment about difficult because I didn't quite know what time it was sounded like an informal short humorous chat and banter between the two daughters and I think we're supposed to be funny and to be fair.

You know couple of times it was amusing but I wouldn't say it was ever laugh out loud funny for me the first few minutes was an introduction.

What's an introduction with Colin Murray who isn't actually part of the program.

So that was a bit disconcerting then after that few minutes it went into something like a 10-15 minute chat introduce themselves and then the Third voice turned off without telling the listen to this third person was and I was totally discombobulated and disorientation.

Specifically targeted you but it said it would have been told that you are and what did you think it was definitely podcast? I'll rather than traditional radiostyle to strangers meeting in the studio.

All they've done they also the comedian say you expect them to have a particular report and to be able to as it work you each other in and feed off each other that is I think what it's supposed to be the unique selling point is it yes, I think so definitely had chemistry.

I think I definitely picked up on the fact that it was a regular thing that they were doing so they were new to this so obviously there's nothing to get there before so it was definitely more laid back in that sense.

They think they let the personalities do the work rather than having a script so dependent on personality and this relationship between them Simon did you care about this programme? Did you feel hey? There's a two witty intelligent people I want to follow.

No and I thought it was a bad.

I felt obliged to have the producer in that presumably to act as an audience to laugh at their hilarious bands Radio 1 programme you like to be so he was laughing out loud everything they said and I found out because I'm quite funny a couple of times and your dad not laugh out loud.

I definitely did the kind of laugh when you recently found it, so I'm using I just didn't need someone in the studio.

So stressful radius was on producible presenters John robins hilarious woman ashamed there award-winning chemistry.

Gets you over the finish line.

Working week so unashamedly ashamed and don't producible is that a fair description of what they deliver to you.

Yeah, it did come over as quite amateurish always lovely idea, but I don't like this balance and so we've just lost one listen to that.

Would you recommend this to your friends and would you yourself go back listen to Ellis and John potentially benefit entered mine for you and how do you say hello to friends depends on the group of friends.

I see a lot of my friends.

Would still be a bit too young to enjoy them specifically I feel like I did really enjoy it and enjoy the things are talking about but a lot of it was that there were saying when did you realise you've been Lane wasn't I think maybe you start to turn it down a bit more in your later? Xx I don't know but I think we've got note out of 10 obstinately from your father.

You are 10.

What would you give me 7 but I am completely different to my Father-in-Law primarily I was in my primary form of entertainment is YouTube and that is the very Camden style.

That's a bit messy, but you know a little bit more authentic.

Not sure when it is necessarily more authentic.

Yes definitely more informal and send it reminded me that my name is some of the podcasts that I've listen to there's no script.

It's very off the cough and it can be a little you know well.

I think you'll be able to clear from Southend to thank you very much and do let us know if you would like to take part in that feature and go outside your comfort zone.

Well, this week the BBC's outgoing director general Tony Hall announced.

There will be a big listening exercise in the spring in which audiences can tell the BBC directly what they want us to be this is in response to calls in conservative circles for the BBC's activities to be cut back and the licence fee to be replaced as soon as possible by subscription and against the background of increasing financial squeeze on the cooperation on Thursday the new culture secretary.

What's the portion to BBC in principle said that in practice it needed to be and I quote closer to and understand the perspectives of the whole of the United Kingdom and avoid providing a narrow urban Outlook so what should the BBC do in the future and how should it be paid for this is some of you have to be to Frost from Suffolk to 3 weeks has helped to focus my thoughts on the future of the BBC whatever they are come.

I hope that radio Romania

skip to a single charge whether it be the licence fee or some other means to have to subscribe to individual programs with me listeners with Miss gems of broadcasting which occur at unexpected moments let us keep radio accessible to all whilst finding some way of keeping the quality Anthony Barnes London I listened to Fran Unsworth defending The planned cuts change and licence fee go back to basics slim down and provide a service that broadcasters what an audience wants and stop casting to each other you broadcast mostly rubbish so scrap the licence go to a subscription format and if your programs improve you might be able to compete if you cannot improve them the cuts you envisage will be irrelevant and the BBC will not survive well to talk about the government consultation and

Examine some of the financial options I was joined by Claire Enders who is CEO of Enders analysis the leading telecoms and media strategy analyst the result of this consultation is that the licence fee non-payment to the licence for his decriminalised and indeed if the BBC goes ahead with withdrawing free TV licences for over 75s are the consequences after BBC both in terms financially and in terms of reputation.

I think the consequences will be very severe for the BBC of both these measures on the one hand the over 75s of which over 4 million will receive a letter sometime in the next 3 months according to current plans most of them have never met the licence fee.

They will feel confused shattered about a million of those homes contain women with disabilities or partially sighted who may not even understand.

What's in the letter.

Not be able to cope with it, so I think that the press titles were clearly waiting for an explosion of anger and confusion and Chaos directed not because the letters are going to come from the BBC They're gonna come from TV licensing.

So yes the BBC is going to suffer from mass of reputational damage from this decision that it took which I'm sure you know is related to a decision that we felt was completely wrong which was the acceptance of the 2015 settlement and we have always believed that the BBC should not be means testing anyone and should not have this poison chalice which of course has now become a Sword of Damocles over its head now but decriminalization the Assumption has been from the BBC that might hit its revenue by something like 200 million, but does anybody know now using I might be an optimistic.

So indeed.

It is very likely that the level of evasion will be dramatically higher than

That was probably an independently assessed in 2015 in the Perry report and at that time the assessment was made on the existing envelope of the Landscape which doesn't take account of the massive outbreak in hostility from all the major press titles against the BBC with the exception of the Guardian this is just for starters because there are some in government who was suggesting I like to get rid of the licence.

We all together and replace it with subscriptions now whether that politically is desirable than long-term at the moment is the practical proposition it's completely impractical to remove Freeview which is by far the most significant viewing platform in the UK with 18 million with set connected exclusively to Freeview and so to remove that would be a huge financial burden particularly on porn older groups in the population, but it is a completely inconsistent.

Exercise because if you if you're interested in you service has not been there before you can code if I if you like the entrance put a coat on it, so if you don't have the code.

You can't get it in this instance with BBC Sport you're talking about switching off things that they already have you have to take away free view all together and start again to introduce these codes that do and subscribe Roger we would also have to have a 100% full coverage of 5G and or fibre in this country a prospect is at least a decade away and given the hostility to the major supplier of equipment in the UK which is what way I think that timing may well be very substantially put Sophia get rid of licence free gift subscriptions your answer them is well.

It's a long-term possibility but now it's just not on indeed.

It's not on from a technical perspective, but I think that the more work.

Process around these policy issues decriminalization and the call for subscription is a fundamental attack on the universality of the licence fee.

We have a lot of work on whether the poor or basically anyone under the top 50% of the economic prowess of this country which is considerable if those people would be able to place the services provided by the BBC by paying for a whole number of subscriptions in the answer to that is if it would be cost at least twice as much and put enormous amount of effort into their eyes which after all not technically complex we have about 15% of the population.

That is not online at all ever and those we will really really struggle particularly as there are over 75 most of them to actually connect and have any service layer to the BBC is asking extremely effective and very high reach a very cost effective medium giving.

Use of it in the over 40s Netflix for example a lot of people are saying in the age of Netflix you don't need the BBC can Netflix replace the BBC Netflix is an extraordinarily successful prefer of very high quality series and movies the BBC serves a myriad of other needs and put things into perspective and despite a massive reduction in the viewership of young demographics the fact is that the BBC's share of total audience TV viewing is around 30% and that of Netflix is around 5, so you see that although it is extremely fashionable to call Netflix reply for everything first of all.

It's not it doesn't wish to be itself you think it will stick to series and films absolutely it has a global model which has to work in 150 countries and the only.

Is there are essentially high quality series very beautifully made series and movies international could be national or even regional or local is impossible and why would it do things that are very expensive to do when you talked about regions and Nations this is you know over over 50% of the BBC staff or outside the M25 but when you look at their Netflix makes its series.

It's made.

It series within the M25 so absolutely Fabric of our country is reflected back to us via also not just the TV services which we talk about all the time which is only thing that Netflix provides but actually the BBC provide online services and radio Services which are listened to or used by half a billion people in the world a week now, Netflix has no

To be one of the foundations of the global democracy, thanks to Claire Enders do take part in the BBC big listening exercise when it starts in a few weeks time the future of Public Service Broadcasting really is at stake to buy.