Read this: James Dundon

The radiated a program with broadcast bionics created of the bionic studio the smarter way to make radio hello, I'm Stuart Clarkson coming up on this week's podcast from Radio today.

Will meet James Dundon long time presenter at Cornwall pirate FM and heart who starting 2020 a new life at the BBC in Jersey and the radio moments with David Lloyd later memories of listen With Mother on the BBC Chris and Zoe starting on Radio 2 breakfast not together a cost-plus Michael Aspel Andre more as well and is here if it's not too late to say that yes, it is may I be the last to say happy new year to you as well, and I think we can draw a line under that now until next year ok.

I'm just filling with my buttons on my micro still because it's not been used since last year.

Can you believe it or not to talk to you later? I need to get my levels alright.

I wish I think so, I think we said yes, thank you to Trevor for last week's radio Today programme officer the roundtable another excellent addition really enjoy listening to that and Trevor's guess you'll be back with more in for the next one.

It's been a very quiet start to 2020 Ryan in terms of Radio news, but we could have some big stuff coming up this year maybe oh really is that a stew prediction? Is it going to be as busy as last year? You'll never know who knows what might happen to wait and see we'll probably happened is the CMA stuff at some point this quarter.

We think well, let's hope the next decision that they release is a final decision rather than just another thought for the day so we say sorry.

I'm looking forward to that.

Everybody's looking forward to that, but I'm sure most people want to closure on it and we've already had some gossip as well from this.

You know that we do not want to go now, but we had a couple of rumours already this year.

Have we have we had so far Stuart radiotoday headquarters The Rumour Mill yeah? Well, there's a story around last back and she wasn't about talk radio possibly going to rebrand 2 times and you were talking to News UK at the time about that and they said there's no plans at the moment.

We're looking at the options, but there's no plans but we're hearing it probably is going to happen as going to become x radio in the next couple of months interesting and that's the thing I press office and they do it again until one day a little place pops up in your inbox and says oh by the way to true so welcome any confirm.

Yes, we get will put on Radio stayed at Keighley Keighley

Will be here to stay for a bit of gossip or any predictions right, but the interest from the predictions that we put out over the holiday pay and we have predictions like at Bauer too close another centre.

We had smooth musicals to launch.

We had XS Manchester to become capital Xtra I think we can know what's gonna happen.

It's just a case of when and all the other out of all the predictions.

I did.

I only got pulled up on one of them that was no this the one from October I put surprising radio results of the board and I think that's in the trade you need an extra one so that everybody down for everybody but let's hope something happens Talbot to make that prediction a reality you never know we'll find out in October so very sad news this week with the news of the death of Stephen Clements a big name in.

In Northern Ireland that many many years on breakfast at Q radio more recently joining the BBC he's been on BBC Radio Ulster since the autumn is his death being announced by ready will still last week and also some reaction from his colleague Steven no staff BBC just been told by the director of BBC Northern Ireland Peter Johnston the Times death age 47 Mr Johnson released a statement in which he confirmed Stephen Clements death and said that all our thoughts are with Mr Clements family friends and colleagues at this difficult time Been part of many people days across Northern Ireland and distinctive hugely popular broadcaster in part.

I think I came from the fact that he had a career outside radio became a radio presenter Heald Green geography for instance network in South Korea teaching English as a foreign language in the action that came to broadcasting in his late thirties play eventually became hugely successful.

Citybeat presenting the weekend program he moved to Q radio or he became the host of their breakfast show for 7 years and as we all know working in radio.

We all know how important breakfast was one of the most listened to programs in Northern Ireland so 7 years.

They are being part of people's lives in it last year in June he moved to BBC Northern Ireland be took over that midnight garden Radio Ulster at the end of September to present the Stephen Clements show and he described that as his dream job so a long career and radio and obviously a very important job here in BBC Northern Ireland as well.

He will be sadly missed by all of us and he leaves behind a wife and two children in commercial radio Donna you don't have to change it but they do you have in the legs of the BBC or maybe the big commercial stations across the water and so when you are being as creative.

Found out as a must listen Stevenage then how you do that? Is you created yourself and that's what he did so for him to be able to have all that creative in the lakes of Scilly B&Q and I mean that as a sign of respect to the station nothing but respect it mentored Stephen that was coming from Steven and he would have been driving that someone to cheeky but he did he created a must listen to radio show everything else.

I'll the water on for you couldn't make it was talk about everywhere.

We were so so lucky to have the very short time on really well, she was Stephen that we did because he was genuine Talent in Northern Ireland at Stephen Nolan at paying tribute to Stephen Clements will be much missed at all so at this year so far.

We've said goodbye to another couple of radio people Larry gogan.

RTE and Alun Wyn Jones Baron chalfant the first chairman of the radiotherapy and X IBA as well.

Hopefully won't get too much use as we move through 2020 something that is going to happen.

Though is the closing down of more medium wave transmitter.

Just announced this week right.

That's right the BBC started doing this couple of years ago and we have news in of transmitters on the on the BBC website, but I can't get to 18 persons misprint or not, but there are 67 station so BBC Three Counties Radio they're losing two am transmitter.

Is there are only two am transmitters BBC Radio Merseyside radio Newcastle Radio Solent and Dorset service am as well BBC Radio Cornwall and BBC Radio York all in the next 3-months.

Have the am transmitters ripped out and Radio Scotland Radio Wales Radio Cumbria and radio Norfolk will lose a transmitted or two as well to reduce their service and it's all it's all to cut costs and move forward with digital of course.

Yeah, we said this before on the radio Today programme but the thing the only time I perhaps listen to any medium wave BBC local radio at the moment display all the sports already Lancashire will put you different commentaries on am on the different FM frequencies that served the county and on the DAB service on Freeview so if somebody stations are going to use medium wave transmitters are going to have to find somewhere else to put the commentary so presumably online but then they rights issues with sports commentary online as it was on about on the podcast last week or maybe DAB station so you know on a Saturday afternoon, they might be three different DAB services from a BBC local radio station all the different football match on that could work.

Yeah.

They're closed one of their a.m.

Is of course in 2018 there are 50 57 frequency for the north of the County so they lost some football splitting that will they lose 85 next and then we'll have to like I said go on to DAB and then lower the bandwidth and split up there there tab carriage so yeah interesting will find out in due course no doubt advert stay with BBC local radio 4 2020.

They got a new sound going to be rolling out some new imaging if you're not heard this yet here's the first taste of it that is on Earth on BBC Radio Leicester BBC sounds.

BBC Sounds app commercial radio radio today's imaging correspondence, what do you think Imogen correspondent? I'll take it out the same style package.

Did you say to all the stations all 39 of them? It is typical can a signature real-world sound mixing their the song bits and the voiceovers together in the same sentence there.

They do that quite a bit for the commercial stations and we've heard out sounds in Leicester

The stations I suspect it may sound a little bit more sound different depending on the station.

I think not having your Radio Cumbria wouldn't sound right having the exact same sound as a people on the forums on the jungle Madness and about 200 cuts all together either already produced or about to be produced throughout the year because it's a picture so each station can pick and choose their own Styles and tempos from the package some might not even choose the some stuff to go over the beds and some might just do the voice overs on the music so it looking for clearing out the same package sounds across 39 different radio stations totally different from commercial radio course where you get this is hard on on 600 stations Scotland tartan in Scotland just because I'm totally different beast so yeah, it's an interesting time and I believe there's an announcement coming coming up as well for BBC local radio to say how the future of the station.

I think there was jingles.

Give us a good clue.

Don't you yeah, it's exciting fresh and I like it.

I like it sounds really good about having all the music to match and the presentation style because I think there are some programmes on BBC local radio serve the BBC local audience fantastically well, but I'm thinking of a couple that spring to mind that the imaging like that would sound a bit out of place with the style and the type of music that they're playing so as you say it's probably hundreds of cuts so so they'll be things that will work for some of those specialist chosen things very diplomatic Stewart as always let anybody about few of the stories that we've had so far this year's new content director coming to kiss as Rebecca Frank was editor and head of production at Radio One she started at Bauer on the 9th March are replacing Andy Roberts who left last year smooth, London and smooth extra on DAB started the year with a new Breakfast Show Jenni Falconer that took over from Gary King is gone.

Breakfast Jenny's to be on heart dinner early show at some new daytime presenters at BBC Radio Jersey would hear from James Dundon later in This podcast very soon in fact that he's doing this morning's also for the PDS who's taking over the afternoon drive show and it was it the first station launches 2020 Roy of maybe the last of 2019 from the news UK Tower Virgin Radio group.

Yeah, just at the end of the year.

Is it this year new year was yeah? I think it's soft soft launched on December 30th Inc if that's so yeah.

I think it just sneaked in in 2019, but it was still soft on so good luck to them and obviously as we speculated earlier.

It's going to be quite a busy year is UK if if the room is running to go by and he is bonkers UFC Ivan Brackenbury last week.

He's gone on tour he didn't use that jingle.

Using that the old alfasound solavox, I didn't use it on the night which is a shame.

I was looking forward to that he had quite a few more inappropriate songs from the last.

Can I have five times I've seen him do his stuff and he said he's well be psychic comedian Tom Binns have you heard of him, but he was also quite funny as well as I'd recommend if you fancy a night out with your radio colleagues.

I recommend going to see me doing loads of different venues over the next couple of months all over the UK and you go and see him Stewart you got a free night or to next 3-months think he's near me this week actually.

I think it's later this week, but I can't go because I'm coming to see you instead of that old excuse come we're going to be in person together next week instead of down the line, so I'm looking forward to that nice.

Events and stuff as well.

Obviously the Aria nominations are the areas in the North are out this week on Wednesday night as you listen to this perhaps.

You've already missed the boat cos that's already just happened to the fullest from the donations of course be on Radio today, UK and the Awards themselves at me on the 4th of March at the London Palladium that come round quick I already had the nominations tomorrow.

So you need to get yourself a time machine Stewart my DeLorean my don't you yeah, it's kind of the other big event this quarter is radiodays Europe happening at the end of March in Lisbon will be there lots more speakers being announced all the time on the list at the moment from the UK that you might have heard of a John Holmes the Legendary John Holmes alternate Goodman and Charles and Chloe Jean Bean Baxter who's on This podcast last week Chris Stevens many more at people from around the UK and across Europe as well James Purnell the big boss of

BBC is going to be that looks like a fabulous event.

I've never been to radiodays Europe and are you been to lots of love last few years, so I'm looking forward to being there.

I can't believe you've never been but it's because maybe you've never had a passport have a passport, but not in recent years.

I'm glad you've renewed that and you got a join me on the flight to Portugal in March looking forward to it absolutely talking to John Holmes as well as I know they mentioned it as well on last week's podcast it's actually been on the air now on Radio 4 do look it up on BBC sounds a new show called the skewer.

It's a weekly thing.

It's kind of an audio montage with lots of bits of news clips and music and kind of silly stuff quite disturbing in the dream-like at times.

It's it's very good called the skewer from Radio 4 at have a look BBC sounds never listen to the words of John Holmes and some excellent colleagues have been doing making that's really good.

I had a listen to that not knowing exactly what to expect and I was thinking this is great introduction.

Introduction and it just carried on and on and on the same same style that this is not an introduction to listen to in a nice loud pair of headphones as well definitely BBC Radio Jersey after many years on there in Cornwall David Lloyd radio moments on the way as well and I will see you next week.

See you next Tuesday the radiated a program with broadcast bionics creators of The Bionic studio watching reacting to and learning from every spoken word Kolo sweet and SMS to a mix and lock and understand your content the bionic studio transform everything about radio set the way you make it today programme and after all that uncertainty in 2019 2024 people is about New Beginnings

And if I guess this week, it means a completely new country almost feels like it has a new Show James Dundon is here a long time presenter in Cornwall with tyrer and Hart at this week starting a new job mid mornings at BBC Radio Jersey welcome to the podcast James Stewart here.

We are Studio 2 Parade Road in broadcasting house in Jersey which I never thought I'd say but this is where the new job new year new everything and she just arrived last week in the Channel Islands it's obviously going to be quite different to Cornwall how are you finding iron life so far.

It's it really reminds me of Cornwall in it.

I keep having to pinch myself in that.

I'm not here not in Cornwall because it's just got the dramatic coastline and the crashing is roxas sort of rough and ready but yet there's these beautiful little spots for eating and nightlife and shopping and there's a lot of tourists the bits which are very quiet this.

Yeah, like it is in Cornwall but I know it's going to be alive in in 3/4 months time.

So yeah actually reminds me of home quite a lot, but everything is different.

So this is the problem when I start doing the show my first shows tomorrow morning you know it's different politics different health system everything is totally different and there's a lot to learn quickly people in the industry will now you fair.

What 10 years at pirate three-and-a-half at Heart in Cornwall on a been doing some stuff at the BBC as well since you left last summer but BBC local radio lemon and Sophie this is a big change isn't it? Yeah? It is and it's a big style change as well because I can say heart was a tight for me.

It was on a Sunday afternoon when I did it but during the week or more drive.

There was this 30% speech but we had to do which was rolling over from the Atlantic FM licence, so they gave me a nice new show which was 10 minutes long at the end of the program but apart from that you had to just unpack.

I think a little bit more it was quite difficult to do that with some of the constraints of what you expect to do with heart and make it sound still a bit contemporary and just keep the pace going but still you would rolling into the break 90-second links which you wouldn't really get another hartside, so but here it's even more because it's a 40% speech but I've got a hit with morning and in particular that it's strangers in three parts because it's a 4 Hour Long show last time I did that was like that was a pirate.

It was like but literally the first our little bit more music after breakfast and then I got two guests an hour in the 10 and 11 hours and then the 12 hour is like a what we going to turn into a lunchtime phoning so it's sort of be more of her a top shower and getting guests and interviews booked which was still going to do but we're going to try and get call as on as well.

So even more speech were hoping 12 till 1 right at the end of the show.

Knackered so wish me luck everyone.

Bye then.

I'd rather do it that way round and you know do an hour of speech in the 9:00 hour and then for the rest of the show you just on the almighty come down and what attracted you to Jersey to take the job, they did you know anything about the other than Bergerac which is about the limit of my knowledge? I did I did lots of research and I was surprised with the more research.

I did I thought really different over here everything is different but I think I just thought of looking at photos and I did take the job lined I did the interview over Skype and then I literally stepped off the plane on Thursday Alex my producer Connor you pick me up from the airport and everyone has just been so lovely over here and I can't get over it because it's like a different politics is like a minute ago.

So it is early because I was hanging around in the studio for the interview tonight with you, so we went round the corner and me and Connor my producer had a pint this pub and he said.

Want to meet this guy and he introduced me and it was a guy who spoke Jericho which is the local native language and he said oh, yes, I'm standing in the election.

What's happening in st.

Helier next month and it's like the Limey into election candidates.

Why are having a pint so we've booked in for two interviews later on in the year in the pub, but if it is literally is all on your doorstep because it is a small island.

You know and we'll community everyone knows everyone might produce a corner who's actually been covering the show the last couple of weeks.

He's so switched on and he knows everyone it's quite embarrassing to walk down the street because it's alright Connor and literally your booking guess as you go and the big thing obviously about the radio stations in the Channel Islands is that they get a lot of listeners are very popular? Yeah? I think the way of looking at this.

Is is we are in effect like a national radio station for Jersey and I know that sounds a bit of local residents here because the politics is different you know no NHS

Brexit is coming from a different standpoint because obviously we're going to remain in the EU there's all sorts of differences, so you can't as a local to Jersey really listen to LBC or four or five live and get the information you need so that's why market share for Channel 103 Radio Jersey is is so healthy and that's why it's so important to get this right and I have no doubt with with Connor behind me and I'm putting a lot of the grafted to make sure that I'm not going to make a fool of myself and let the side down that it is it is a risk that is the only thing because it is going to take totally out of my comfort zone because I know Cornwall inside out like the back of my hand and I've come here on Thursday and I'm on here tomorrow for the first time and yeah, just take it step-by-step and see how we go I mean obviously back end of 2018.

We had the Ofcom localness change.

I think a lot of people in commercial radio saw, what was going to happen from that.

How was last year for you in terms of expecting that changed to come and then it been announced and experiencing going through what people that went through last year.

I mean we kind of knew it was coming before Christmas so over a year ago.

We were sort of just knowing that it was going to be a year of change are it wasn't just a rumour based you could just tell that the station was in a bit of a holding position and there wasn't really a lot going on and we were just thought of just in our own little bubble carrying because you got too and I don't regret a thing going from pirate to heart was wonderful great opportunity when they came to me and said I would like you and you know it's a big move because I'm I'm so loyal to pirate I even am now you know a little pirate now and I feel like I'm still on it.

It's a weird thing sometimes you never let go of being a part of that.

Spent New Year's Eve I went into the new decade spending New Year's Eve with a couple of people still work at pirate a dear friend of mine.

So you know I I made some friends for Life in that building and I'm obviously it was mine springboard into the industry after hospital radio and then I did a bit of experience on the radio Cornwall sport show for a couple of years and then I contacted by Pirates and someone's going on maternity leave night.

He started in the building loading Commercials which was their job because even like 15 years ago you get production company bring you up and we need to be commercially just made down the isdn line will these days it will be on email about 15 years ago.

They wouldn't Trust emails for that sort of thing they go on no we don't we need to still play it down isdn, so that it involved a lot of work in those days, and then I eventually black myself on here this invoice tracker evening shows then did my first live show on a Saturday morning at 5 a.m.

You sort of feel your way through and and then going to heart was incredible as you really felt part of the global family and part of this big Brand and just talking over the ramps and sweepers between this awesome set of songs you just felt really good so I loved it is an experience and obviously you know you've spent the entire career so far in Cornwall on on the radio going back a few years ago Atlantic and pirate who knows what this year might bring when Bowers purchases go ahead, but obviously pirates gonna become part of our so it's global versus bow.

They could be quite a lot of difference between radio in 2020 and Cornwall and what it was 506 years ago in especially when you've got a county that has that distinct kind of local identity.

It's a shame, isn't it? Yeah? I think it's some an interesting scenario particularly for Cornwall and it's just to keep all Eyes on Pirate and what happens there because it's been an incredibly successful station and if you

SE10 one in Cornwall if you did a box on the street and said to people what station radio station name one, what do you listen to but name a radio station beside pirate in Surrey that was that was the problem? I think I had at heart trying to convert audience we we did a bit but it was a tough tough gig and what we saw as well during my three in a bit years on heart is also we saw that everyone was getting a smaller share of the pie the drive time audience for all dayparts was was going down the pirate did because there's just so many more stations and now D1 and D2 in Cornwall you can pick up 50 stations.

Well.

You know I used to drive on the school run listening to either pirate or radio that was here and now you've got all these massive brands which are doing incredibly distinguished music and style and it's an exciting time to be radio listener, but a tough times.

Anyone in the industry particularly if you're working local radio because there's just so much more competition and you will I suppose in a way get less people and of course DAB in Jersey I think it just around the corner in a couple to 3-months.

So that's going to take it up here.

What will happen to audiences here expect.

You know music stations or you know it's rolling music so I'll probably tuning for a different mix.

Oh, yeah challenging time.

I think that wherever you are.

You're not safe from it and we can get you on without asking about your massive organ.

Yeah, no that hasn't come to Jersey with Aaliyah I've actually I've left it behind I've booked in for some work at an organ builders.

It was a bit of an opportunity.

Obviously I couldn't travel it cos I'm over here but word is already leaked out in Jersey about this organ that I've got on there also I'll bring it over you could take it to this event or do this with it.

So this is a bike on the back.

We should explain yes, so it stays on a trailer and it's like an old fairground organ that play some happy music and I even do little sorry for being cheeky plug but I even internet radio station that plays that type of music which is broadcast from my spare bedroom which is still in Cornwall actually.

I haven't moved over yet.

That's gonna be a big job, but the computers there my darling and evening this invoice tracking and schedule the music for the next day and that's called mechanical music radio on Alexa and yeah, and it's not just organs.

It's musical boxes.

It's self playing pianos, so it's anything that and you know I've got no track share with any other radio station in the world so maybe I'll end up with the highest audience share at the end of this.

Lot I don't think there's much else playing organ Radio 2 Mr x if that's still going so yeah, no that has gone off FM now.

I think I don't think you can do it podcast anymore, so he's a really nice people keep discovering me in.

Anyone listening if you know setting up an internet radio station isn't too bad.

There's there's you don't have to have her a running computer with a playout system you can you know those websites where you can upload music to iCloud, and it sort of schedules shingles and things from folders incredibly clever and and you can just do that as a little hobby and just from a purely point of view to sit there and the evenings and schedule music for the next day and go through the logs and then do a little clock change change the schedule around change the music makes a little bit you know flip format.

It's great fun to have something and not have to answer to any management and the free app and it's on Alexa as well, so it's very very different that you're here my sort of commercial radio moorings coming through in that then sweepers between every song.

Are you playing as well actually composed punched out into cardboard and then recorded on different instruments and I've done this ramp so you're here and run by duel links, so it's all very cheeky.

I spent far too much time on it stupid but we all need a hobby that forget your new radio Jersey shirt, and we listen to mechanical will be too Dim for your first week on on BBC Radio Jersey good luck with that change colour with a new show and your new life insurance.

It's exciting.

Thank you still at pleasure to catch up James Dundon talking to me here on for tonight.

Thank you very much for coming on James really appreciated it still to come and got David Lloyd radio moments with more classic memories from the archive some brilliant audio clips as well for you to hear before that reminder about clean feed baby start the new year with some new technology in your life if you doing Dobbies or getting Gaston from weird and wonderful places on to your radio station, Rd York

Cleanfeed is great way of getting them on in something better than a phone line or Skype or FaceTime that's been invented for radio people and podcasters and it's really simple to use and connect decent quality.

Just using your browser cleanfeed won't cost you anything to get started as a completely free version it will just take you a moment or two to get signed up and get into using it for the first time on your show or your podcast find out more about it at cleanfeed dotnet listen With Mother on BBC Radio that program began this week 70 years ago a daily basis of stories and songs and nursery rhymes with a million listen once upon a time.

There was a little monkey.

He was brown and he was heading this week in 1950 on the BBC light programme.

Cleaner performance from the BBC Scottish Orchestra and woman's as well featuring that day Mrs Webb telling us about good cooking why use with parsnips for children at home definitely oxenfoord host of the programme from very early on until 1971 of a little boy, who is now a respected solicitor and he was a little devil.

And I thought if I can get through to him, I can get through to anybody in those days children were very puzzled by the radio itself and definitely has to say they thought she was actually said the set ended in 1982 not without a fight the press reported however 8 toddlers set in the rain on the steps of Downing Street to hand in a petition to persuade the iron to add her wait.

How old are you? Do you think and will you be sad if it's taken off the radio? What do you hope is going to happen now then began 70 years ago this week, but touch FM stations in the Midlands amongst others recently became capital is it for me? It's been an absolute.

Station for many years off and on from back in the day of kicks 96 and evenings and it's just been absolutely in Coventry and the Coventry City of Culture 2021 coming so thank you very much for your life takes 96 become touch this is Coventry city of Invention on for National stations this job has and it was radio to turn this week 10 years ago.

What's the whistle goes you know you do what you do? I just can't wait to get on to let me begin with the poem today will come and today.

We'll go and one day.

It will be our last show for it.

Enjoy every second between now and then are only goal at the moment to Outlast can Chris Evans beginning his 9 years on Radio 2 breakfast he was succeeded by presenter a year ago and relax after all the buildup and all that and all the preamble is finally here.

We are so super excited.

I'm ready for team.

They're ready to eat.

If you've got a new battery fitted in the bathroom radio ready, so first record arriving at Radio 2 this week last year the number of local presenters who truly owns their markets and I remember the years later is fairly small one of the

Died this week 2 years ago.

Do you trust me boy? I'm trying not and I'm doing my best to try and help you now.

Do you believe that? I don't want to see you hurt mate.

I don't want to see you knocked around.

I don't want to see you Steve will you go to a police station, or is there any way we can get yourself into a police station Callum drive? You do you want me to drive you are you going to go back to the prison after watching Alan nothing more than to get me when I was going there for the study fashion.

Just now.

I'll catch you if I'm there by brmb and BBC WM to think that a capital presenter can be 87 years old but Michael Aspel is this week and it was effectively will Manning on the mornings Billy Joel she's always a woman.

That's exactly 9:20 oclock news.

I'll be inviting you to give me a ring and I'll play a record for anyone you want I got lots of card as well.

Tanya is written about her boyfriend Victor works for somebody called Leslie Davis

Antalya go to the London College of Fashion in the same street, so they got together and will for some time because Tanya says told him I love him now and will forever that sounds pretty final in the Happy Birthday to Michael Aspel also heard on family lights on radio to LBC as well so with the closure of digital station 1 Word 12 years ago time to have the first reading from the rule of law and listens in on what we've been talking about the death of RAM or 31 years ago and 4 years ago on hot news Winchester David Cameron has died David Bowie has died after a switched on in London 47 years ago.

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