Read this: #125 - Political Freesheets; Clarkson’s Climate Climbdown; Bloomberg’s Blackout

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm Olly Murs and Prince Andrew + Jeremy Clarkson suddenly wakes up to climate change just in time for his new TV show and in the media and broadcasting Legend Clive James and Gary Rhodes enjoy me today chair of the broadcasting press Guild Jake kanter.

Hello Jake hello you have a new job since we last saw you you are international editor of deadline Hollywood expecting you that horribly wrong.

I wasn't sure if it was me and dancing it for the first time.

That's exciting world of TV after 3 years of Insider and obviously I used to work broadcast so yeah, it's fun to be covering a media again and I guess that used to be if you had that job in London and you were.

About us Productions or you were writing that British production through us audience that would be a clear transatlantic divide there, but nowadays I mean all the American money is going into things are being filmed at Elstree and these days on your right about Netflix commission that could just as easily be here in London as it could in no Hollywood and the money that flowing into the UK from these companies is it is a great time to write about Ellie and British TV Christians use right now work for the American tech companies.

Are you now? It's gone from Sky to fix there are many other examples the sweet spot for us is always the intersection between the us and the UK and luckily I'm I'm writing and that's weak spot see he says is already in your team player.

Who is Richard Lindley looking to the past is quite informative to and Richard and he was a great report in the golden age of those charming young man went on the world telling us.

What was going on.

He was a great report and it's really cold stone.

I want to talk about his ex-wife and they were a really interesting love match.

You know the media loves much.

They are the Edinburgh television festival in life and they were quite different Carol was a great network is a great now because she's an incredibly good and great fun Richard a little bit more aloof but they got together and they were great couple sadly Richard suffer from dementia later on and Carol looked after him and she was absolutely wonderful and I saw the birthday party in the summer and I thought how great it see someone with dementia and someone looking after them and then having a great time with this party, but sadly they're involved in a road accident a couple of weeks ago in Soho and then she was in hospital as was Carol and

And I think she must be devastated and a lot of the older generation and Regeneration to our hearts go out to them because as I say they were a real love story andea, Love Story thank you for that days and last but not least veteran mediapad commentator Paul Robinson director of creative media partners always flying in from somewhere.

Yes this time I try to keep the airline card nice and gold Robin going a horrible blue colour is invited to speak at the st.

Petersburg cultural festival.

This is a festival promoted by Putin and 90 people to invest in Russia and it was fascinating and some very interesting performances, but whole purpose really was to get people to think about how they can work with Russian producers into Russian co-products and what they did with amounts to about this festival the 40% tax credit on production down in Russia so it was conversations with Russian Studios linking them with Western companies to find ways to.

Gets her kids animation into Russia and then to produce a show that will work around the globe in a masha and the Bear people know but it was an accident.

It wasn't designed to be a global show there's never really been a Russian animation has travelled around the world and they want to do that.

So this was about promoting that and paid for by the Russian government that's all good idea for international companies to think we want to do if you really like it could be done with a Russian company or is the idea more like the tax breaks in Belfast or you know Detroit aware of the way you just go and make something there is no one really knows it's a Russian production in cultural references important, but for kids anyway to make something successful.

It's got to have a global appropriateness.

You need to tap into stories and things are kids care about globally the Russians no they're not very good at that.

They're very animation their production is fantastic, but their story writing the character design not as good and they recognised as if they're going to export Russian creativity to the rest of the world they've got to tap into.

Storytellers and within a British or American writers showrunners to produce a show that will travel to get it so Peppa Pig she coming soon miss you all night.

If there is an election going on there is some shit going down which we need to discuss so don't even know where to start but my script says let's start with the Lib Dems and newsquest boss baby Granville this week threatening to boycott coverage of the Liberal Democrats in his newspapers after the party publish their own 3 sheets that looks like local papers have any of you seen examples of this that people online that you're nothing to do you think these things the mid Hampshire Gazette in the northwest Leeds and Wharfedale news if that landed on your door mate.

Would you believe that wasn't a little Pamphlet genuine local paper?

I don't think this is new I think there's an old trick that's been used by the political parties in the past and it's insidious misleading dangerous, but I kind of look at these days and Shrugged my shoulders it all feels a bit Parochial and this is kind of peculiarly British thing isn't it and a world in which Donald Trump got this enormous megaphone in which he lies to 70 million people at once a little newspaper fake newspaper are going through someone's door doesn't feel I don't know I don't know maybe maybe I'm being too fast and really bad attitude.

I mean just because there are bigger lies doesn't mean it's a small lie and it's ever so slightly the most dangerous thing is happening this election has been flagged this fascinating because in a lot of areas local authorities read newspapers that look like a genuine news.

And they're actually you know the local councils and organ over communications and I think it's really important that people have their attention drawn to this people do read local newspapers and perhaps not as they were particularly that comes with the door for free and it's really I think quite dangerous when political party pretends to be something.

It's not it is not the publisher of an independent newspaper show the power of local journalist that people want it to be real.

You know it's always toilet local Media is dying and I don't personally believe that necessarily true.

It's probably mutating in some way and interesting example of how it is meeting and how it still does not to say that he will not cover the Lib Dems in his papers and other if I'm nothing that probably shouldn't yourself but it's interesting that it matters enough to hit the headlines.

It's also the thing of I mean if the newspapers had actually been called Lib Dem news.

Paul then everyone would understand it's a Pamphlet that support for the local.

You get what that is is the fact that they tried to make it look like the genuine article Liberal Democrats has written very small letters.

That's what feels insidious unpleasant about it.

These days people have always but now especially party this highlighted fake news it feels if a critical distinction and outside of draw a parallel to and that is when you're communicating with anybody need to know what the source of energy is in another example would be Wednesday editorial than Wednesday advertising and that's always been something I think in the UK with been pretty good at differentiating.

So you know when it's now that you know when it's this is clearly misleading.

They are not the only political party to do things that perhaps are not completely whiter than white demonstrates that this election is being felt beyond tactical voting what happens in local constituencies.

What matters you know whatever the swing may be nationally what happens locally may be driven by other factors and therefore local papers are important so

It is quite encouraging the local journalism, but I do think it's very clear that we call this out changed because obviously but perhaps since the last decade is that when I get stuff sent through their door.

That's locally targeted at them or when people actually get a Facebook and even as locally targeted at them.

They can share screen grabs of it with everybody else is no longer something that's just for their eyes only every can see when the parties are lying.

Yeah.

I mean the best example.

I think that is election is the Tories running their Twitter account as fact check UK roundabout that everybody I'm going to try and put my feelings really good film out, but let's talk about that.

I think it's really interesting in the hole fake news and check and they're clearly from this point of view like a political party.

You need to know about that need to be clear of added that sort of thing as always gone and the whole idea that fake news is something modern and completely.

You know off the moment is so wrong.

There's always been fake news right right back to the middle ages when people bullied all sorts of things about the saints and went on pilgrimage isn't so when I'm not saying it was necessary on true that there's always have doubts about these things and people were promulgating things that possibly won't do it always have arguments about the leaflets that well you did say you mean the local side of it and social media thing though is the fact that they were pretending to be an impartial for removing the Conservatives branding and signage and Boris Johnson too well, but actually trying to fight with you.

It's not good absolutely not not impartial ballistic organ that straight out the Donald Trump played for business directory of the public.

React accordingly and judge people on the ability to trust what they read.

I hope that people who are actually doing such activity and and misleading the public will actually ultimately price because they won't be rewarded by supporting.

I do think the public are not stupid.

It's important nowhere and if people are cheating and they should have the consequences paid and that will have to be by the end of this week that showed that of the most memorable events of this election so far.

I think 9% recognise that fact check your issue and that was right up there with people remembering.

What was in the contents of the various manifestations, so people recognise that was an issue.

I think it wasn't just in a Twitter remember it we've discussed whether they remember it in the terms that the Conservative Party wanted it to be remembered.

I.e.

They remember that people took issue with what Jeremy Corbyn said in the day.

Will depend where they're coming from in the first place I think and that's really really important because there's a reason people have by various newspapers because they already belong to that particular particular views exactly that the Electoral Commission gets to sort of adjudicate on all of this stuff rather than the advertising Standards authority or you know the individual social media companies seem to make up their own rules most important part of our democracy because regulation and statutory cover it doesn't extend to social media and it will in the future is going to have to happen at Ofcom awesome at the moment during this transitional period but it will change that John Sweeney as well.

I don't know if you saw the Open Letter but he sent to Ofcom I mean it was it was sent as a Whistleblower letter but the website accusing the BBC of failing to broadcast mostly his reports on the far-right, Russia and brexit.

Looked at because every Whistleblower has a point that's why they're blowing the whistle there are some interesting things in this example and a programme about the Maltese journalist Daphne caruana galizia.

I think it's open relaxed but then I notice yesterday on the BBC News was quite a long piece about multi-tool problems in Malta and I thought how interesting I never seen that before and was interested in this because I know one of my work and I was really surprised to see this write-up on the BBC and then I find the Apes a Whistleblower said they actually show about it, so I don't know it's interesting isn't it that suddenly? It's up on the news specific examples and specific gender is one of the things.

He says he's that Jon Sopel shouldn't be doing corporate work for I think it was Philip Morris and the another one as well.

Was it just web from the state program also do incorporate from one of the companies that I think Panorama we're looking into is that right that high-profile BBC presenters if it special for freelance shouldn't be taking corporate gigs.

Application because any corporation work is going to have some doubt but that is true.

I think I think that perhaps you've got the terms of the contract and they have got to be able to have the freedom to do other work.

I would like to the it does as you say stop to sound like celebrates when it gets so personal working news.

He's not saying that if you saying if you are the North America editor.

You shouldn't be taking money from one of the biggest companies in the world that might be at the centre of the stories you report it is that of a point on or not? I mean clearly that their contracts allow them to do this work.

Otherwise.

I think if I was in that position.

I would think seriously about whether taking on work like that would compromise my judgement and if John so bald patches to repair on a major White House scandals or American scandals, because he's a North American editor involving that huge company in the US then does that colour is reporting that a question? That's not.

Suggesting of the doors, but it certainly doesn't help is reporting.

I don't think I guess there's the thing as well of salaries because you know we've talked many times on this show about whatever I get paid as on-screen Talent for the story before to consider what their position at the BBC get something corporate.

I think what's important is that we expect to BBC journalist to be impartial and to tell it's not be influenced by any other paid remuneration.

I think you're not in any business.

You have to avoid conflict of interest that is absolutely critical that you do that and as a consultant.

Do you have to be careful if I work for this company? Is it going to cause a conflict with that company? Is it going to change my decision-making ultimate you're paid by somebody it is going to change at least how you think and that's a risk.

So best.

It's perception issue, but it probably means in reality you do act in a somewhat different ways, so I think it's important that BBC journalists are completely beyond reproach and can be trusted now that.

To be denied doing this work either.

It's going to be an area where there's no risk of any conflict with the news reporting or there.

Have you paid a different salary to enable them to work for the BBC not take this.

I might be being a bit too optimistic, but I cannot imagine that the BBC would allow them to take a post with another company which is going to cause a conflict of interest this must be examined even if it's just exactly you need to speak to you.

I don't think it does happen release it's probably the margins and overall out the BBC generally gets it right.

I mean the fact that Chris is this election campaign from both the left and the right that spicy other way.

Give me some said probably be getting about right and centre party invitations.

Do you think there's another one of his accusations John Sweeney said I'm Janice from the accepting invitation to the dance party.

What does the word for in what's wrong with his party interestingly some stuff in the north of England years and years ago probably 40 years ago.

We were invited to a lot of parties by a British nuclear fuels and

About whether we should go in this chapter let's go it's only bribery if it works and that's the difference you can go to the party, but it is only buyer if it works.

I mean if you unintentionally about saying a brand name because you know you have a goodybag in your head, but you've got to be very careful and you know as you got the greasy pole that I suppose it's a difficult one but how prescription can you be about what people do we are all influenced by things all the time the schools we went to the people we knew the background.

We have I'm not saying that people take that amount of money from The Corporation and then favourably report on his of course not but there's a point at which you cannot edit out all our backgrounds news night for a brief moment.

We should just touch on the interview Emily maitlis.

Did Prince Andrew over his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein it was on telly.

I think the day after we recorded the last edition of this show and obviously made some waves who would like to.

Text on this talking about the BBC that's not being as strong as it should be when reporting the news and risk-averse a smart the BBC raise this this exact point in their response to John Sweeney by saying hang on a minute.

Look at look at this story within on Prince Andrew look at the interview with did you know it's not everyday that Britain's national broadcaster rugby tackles the Queen's son that of his royal duties.

It's a once-in-a-lifetime story for every mate.

This is clean up every single Awards I think she didn't want to but I remember her teasing the story on Newsnight tonight for is broadcasting on the Today programme as well and she said something very flimsy like how you've never seen a member of the royal family open up like this before and people will make.

It didn't feel like she knew you was going to bring his career down it was because it was the reaction from the papers that that really pleased it's a great interview very interesting he was quite downbeat during those I think it was the waves that will call back caused by the red tops that created this huge brouhaha.

How long do you think I worked on it? Paul well? You have to give a lot of credit for the team because I'm amazed.

They were able to pull this off.

I would have thought the palace would have said not gone to Emily maitlis, Newsnight I would definitely not have gone to that particular out that is all sorts of places you in the US but didn't know Emily and her her calm and tell forensic style which is always going to unwrap it.

So I may so loud that happened and I mean that had been pitched different let you know we can talk about this but also other things he wouldn't have been.

It to the scrutiny was under and he was always going to fail so I think it's a major failing by the palace.

I'm amazed having had in the past all sorts of other so party in the one that sort of springs to mind is the Martin Bashir Princess Diana when they allow this to happen at the end weirdly the people talk about because obviously there are many other things to discuss but just looking back on it where he tried to publicise pitch at the palace his body did with startups coming round which is now falling around him and it was because it was clearly the case that a question about that it felt so out of everything else.

They'd been discussing and obviously no one said that we need to start by talking about there so we need to talk about all the great work.

He does it was handled that bit of it.

You know if you give you a prince even in the context of having agreed to the interview because Emily maitlis did a piece for the Sunday Times I think it was always at Sunday Telegraph I can't remember which he was but she did a very good.

Look up how the whole thing was put together and she explained how they started months and months ago new year ago from trying to get this particular interview and they've worked on it and it has gone away then come back in the comeback know the rest of it.

So it was really absolutely down to that program that team who made that approach.

It wasn't at the palace was looking for somewhere and landed on Newsnight it was the Newsnight we've gone through it from the very beginning and having a really interesting and probably that's why there's Paris Palace fell into the Trap because months later they thought we need to explain himself and there was this invitation lying there definitely credit to them ok? We'll be back with some more media news after this.

We're going to be talking about Clarkson Paul's Bakery it's the name of your business and it's perfect it's simple and easy to remember so make sure your domain name is 2 at 1.

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Michael has kicked off his presidential run for the Democrats this week by banning his own media company from investigating his campaign.

I mean he's basically said that Bloomberg can't it be involved in any investigations into himself and I think Bloomberg will cover the sort of day in and out of the election.

And other media outlets are reporting on Michael Bloomberg but they won't be even though they will be able to investigate Donald Trump they won't be able to investigate him.

I mean that was certainly what I read something North Korea is now I mean it's extraordinary and particularly at a time when my my former employer which is Business Insider they publish report yesterday looking at going back about 20 years which raises serious questions about Bloomberg behaviour has been accused for Peterlee in court records of making crude remarks to be my employees.

There's clearly room for investigative work as far as his track record is concerned.

There are journalists at Bloomberg who absolutely would be jumping a bit to do that kind of work.

This is how he emails 2700 people I mean if you're going to attempt to try and muzzle your own people you might do it in a more subtle way, but I found out 2700 message.

This is inevitably going to the public to me.

I think it's absolutely arrogant and naive and of course it plays perfectly the Donald Trump no one could be happier now than Donald Trump why what's the what's the play that Trumps going to make a with Trump is always saying it's me how the media of God in wrong.

They don't understand him and so on and look his rival doing exactly the same or worse yet and actually I mean CNN is fake news.

Isn't it from the trump camp my phone is now managed to make Bloomberg on the list of fake news providers which the president going to be calling out.

That is really sad thing is looking any democracy you want to have a range of options to vote for you.

Need to have no choices to make and suddenly the choices have been somewhat damaged.

It will be you know a a serious contender your next time the elections come round in the US and of course.

This is that she damaging that chance? I think we're making a mistake of looking at this as British people not as American

Is absolutely makes a difference between the way British election coverage is run which is organised by statute representation of the people all of that and American election coverage is American me.

Where is much more the product of individual people putting their money where they wanted to be having their outlet saying what they want to say not being regulated in the same way that we are and Bloomberg is just type his boot is channel is set it up.

He wants to say what he wants to say on it.

I think in the radio interviewing.io he said course.

I don't want my child basically slagging me off.

We've got to look at it from that point.

They have a completely different Media landscape.

I don't personally don't Alexa party me know people keep talking about you know the leaders of the parties in the UK will not Alexa one of those leaders were electing a party.

It's so different.

I don't know if jQuery cos you're probably much more if they was what's going on in the US but it is a very different set of isn't it is the thing that staggers me about all this is the Bloomberg has been built in.

Fantastic news brand impartial responsible for some amazing journalism and this diminishes and undermines all of that only on alright.

Maybe not in the eyes of the US what I supposed to do in his view was he saying is There is obviously a conflict of interest because I am the agency said let's not pretend that they can be far apart for me.

Let's send everybody an email because you're in the US you only channel is your channel you say what you want on this story being reported in the US will anyone in the us know about this over they can yes I've seen quotes from inside of a Bloomberg clearly seething about this from the Union representing journalist at the Bloomberg industry group good for dinner.

I'm saying is different from when we have to look at it and see how the US citizens reactor they say made judge it differently because it is Channel it should say what he wants on it.

Is the average us and Bloomberg is very much in the financial realm? And I think most people would say fine to be fair if you actually becomes president then like Trump's company was supposedly.

I've got to be outside of his influence then some gym at Bloomberg would have to be sold or might have to stand down from the board or whatever but the point is during the campaign.

I mean he's made it into the campaign with the most expensive series of Blue Blood that's all x x x l.

I find that more interesting the way I'm saying I'm not surprised you said this to his employees but the amount of money that's been poured in this fascinates me.

I really I just don't know which way it's going to go in like vs.

What is it appreciation of what might happen with the likes of bezos earn in the Washington Post soccer bag if you choose to run for president.

I mean you've actually got basically if it's going to be a world.

Where only billionaires can stand to be.

Important in the US that's always been the case but now they control the message entirely as well.

Not entirely the other channels is the US it's different from system and I and I hope you believe our system is better, but it's all system with a different history they do it then worried so much about commercial involvement doing you look at the American TV and very blatant commercial activity influencing behaviour is not something people have any problem with the far more worried about you know sex on the TV was here.

We may be ok? Let's talk about Jeremy Clarkson now.

You may have thought he just disappeared behind an extortionate paywall, but he's back to blame climate change activist Greta thunberg for ruining car shows like his 14 Amazon Prime who saw this story.

Agent episode of The Grand Tour Cambodia and they start at a this is the pronunciation wrong but is totally sap lake in Cambodia I think and basically there's nowhere near enough water in this leg and that's down to two things 11 the Chinese better jamming and reducing water supply and secondary climate change and I think that's the most important Factor in this and it is the first time that he and his crew have acknowledged climate change on-screen solutely loads better and makes no effort to conceal his his displeasure about her he still has those views but I think.

Importantly in this he recognises for the first time on screen that climate change this and it's not a big issue, they they they they make a note on the show this is desperately worrying and they move a very quickly as Andy woman whose advice should he told me afterwards? No not suddenly become David Attenborough but it's interesting isn't it obvious switching out basically is blokes of a certain age.

You take a certain worldview boomers basically are ready for this piece of information now exist eating about this the ex editor of The Guardian significant is important for people like dogs and probably go to make this statement even in their own way which might be considered by the twitterati, but is he making a point about climate change or is he having a go at Greta thunberg? Obviously doesn't like it's just both but it's mainly this person.

This story was the fat guy no idea that Jeremy Clarkson was only 59 as I was much older than that was really entertaining when you said that the greater is an idiot for claiming.

We're all going to die because please can you die sooner well in a probability is 859, but as he was much older than that probably sit in the car all the time isn't great for your skin in the small way trying to millennials to get back into the just to be cleared.

No no he could not give more of a damn about the animals he was pressed on this point.

We had a press Round Table after the screening and yeah, he he doesn't care about upsetting millennials doesn't care about upsetting gen Z snowflakes a new crowd funding initiative which was launched which is pairing unpaid interns from out of town with media people who have a spare room.

How does it work so it works it offers free places to stay?

Who is the Sutton trust the saying that to have an unpaid internship in London cost more than £1,000 a month so then people can't afford it.

I think the story is slightly confused as two things then there's the issue about the insurance.

There's a proper representation of journalism journalist reporting stories that obviously right, but it needs to reflect the population of and then there's the issue about affordability so this is taking both of those things people who can't afford otherwise turn to undertake an unpaid internship and also ensure we got diversity and a proper representation and particularly know this statement he felt as if you look at the performance from working class backgrounds is a very very low number and way below the the population average, so basically journalism is still somewhat dominated by middle-class elite and in fact.

That's a bit lost over the last 10 years.

I feel because obviously lots and lots of focus on BA ma people but actually not much talked about.

Who hasn't gone to private school you know I don't think of it as well.

I don't think you're quite right there.

I mean I was in postgraduate education and it was a constant worry that the applications did not come on large number of applications did not come from working-class people and other people who could come to London and that is that what people who are recruiting for an event production companies.

I think they might be thinking about what colour is their skin and what gender are they not thinking what is becoming more and more simpler talking about I really do I just from my own personal experience in talking to employees talking to students.

It's really up there is something people are worried about I think this is a great source of it myself.

It's so good in anything that helps people get into journalism.

Go on from the obvious background is really great that doesn't mean you know that there's there's not great people from other backgrounds.

It's just the diversity to make sure there's enough people and one of the problems with the decline of regional newspaper journalism, is that the probably isn't the way in the region that once was through the newspapers like when I started I don't actually work on the news.

People I worked with work on a newspaper and it's so that's one avenue.

That's closing a little bit of course other avenues to websites and so on are opening but the problem is and is always been the case that really important influences and the big newspapers national newspapers and Son of based in London and people work in London and have a London centric view and that's the problem with connection with everything that's going on is that we feel that we don't represent the whole country in the way that journalism used to do and also I think we've got to rethink this in terms of the election because you so right he said it on a very local basis if they're on the journal this out there reporting locally then political parties pretending to be done as I'm gonna get away with it.

If you can't afford to live in London whilst I've got an internship.

So give them free accommodation and a mentor in one simple thing, but is it practical step is fantastic beasts on at the address is a huge issue.

I think is right.

I'm in class is increasingly being considered a bigger part of solving these issues and yeah.

I just reflect on my own experience.

I was very fortunate to have apparently works in the industry who was able to help opened doors for me and I lived not far from London and those things I think probably put me an immediate advantage that others have and I think anything that can be done to address that would be is entirely welcome, but will free accommodation actually inadvertently perhaps end up popping up the tradition unpaid internships.

That's a worry because that this is not a great singer told me I don't think there's any unpaid internships should last longer than 6-weeks.

That's my view and I have seen people in the past horrible in my view by very important procedures companies and it's all wrong.

I do wonder if I could give you an anecdote.

I've started a club for children at my local primary school since I've become semi-retired.

And these kids are great an incredibly diverse background papers in the first week and at the end.

I said would you like to take the newspapers home and most the kids? Thank you and one girl said I know we've got loads of newspapers at home and I said oh, that's great.

Well done and she said yes, it's cos we've got rabbits Clinton well.

We're away a lot you said so I think the fridge.

Yeah absolutely bring a huge amount of businesses that thinking at the right point and that it's very easy to exploit sun in the past.

We've had people who then have gone to get jobs.

I think 6 week scan after being a bit short to be honest because by the time you get in the door.

You know you've got to go.

Comfortable and it's very important that they get real work to do and not just give him the side of the the desk and read their sorgo, make the coffee you going to get really involved, so I think actually you need a bit longer than that to really skills, that's why don't you maybe you know 10 to 12 weeks, but I think it's very important is continued to 12 weeks unpaid 10 to 12 weeks as an intern.

I didn't say I'm asking because that's what I would hope and certainly might be that after a number of weeks.

He might start to pay that person because the thing is actually the reality is isn't it that if you're completely new to this you don't have contact so maybe you're straight out of university or even school and you come to the big smoke.

You're probably going to do like five or six internships.

You need six months in 6 weeks even if they like you it might be 6-months.

It's very difficult tell me why can't get internships who replied the plane applied in the waiting list there aren't enough internships for that to happen in a what what matters is that people get the chance to get into working environment.

A better chance of competing for a job maybe getting a job because you found someone really really good.

What is interesting is that this crowdfunding fund has worked and that says to me that people are willing to put money in their value and very very encouraging diversity is obviously every time you come on the show we catch up on how the women female present on the major news.

We had some really amazing statistics and I can actually give you an update as we just had some fresh ones from the end of 2018 beginning of which show that it's virtually down to 2 to one in that means the only twice there only twice as many men as women and when I started doing this anecdotally about 89 years ago.

There was three times as many men as women on show so I mean I don't know what's causing what's effect but you have definitely seen more women being interviewed as authority figures on the TV news, then you know that you did a few.

Yeah, it's looking good profile examples as well.

You know two women and coming breakfast on Good Morning Britain let's not be naive about this to still a peg after it's still two to one and it's already but it shouldn't even be that I would argue that sort of reflects the level of female thoroton Society and that might not be right, but it's realistic when we started again the broadcasters were saying oh well, you know we're just in society, but they weren't there actually discriminate discriminating against women so it's not all bad news, but you've got to keep your foot on the accelerator cos if you stop it goes backwards, ok, let's talk to media now and reach the parent company of the titles including the mirror and the Express OK magazine these days as well have 40 million unique visitors in a month.

That's good.

I was a little bit confusing but when you look at website metrics that puts them close to the top.

Readers are leaders in a month and it's got all their title should be celebrated The Express and Star the trickiest of the kickback holes on the internet website today in preparation for this and some of the headlines are just extraordinary.

I mean I mean suggest god of Chaos asteroid may set the world back to prehistoric times.

I mean as a headline today at the word main that headlines doing a lot of heavy lifting but I think what we increasingly seeing is the Debate shifting from one around reach and uniques to watch it and that is increasingly becoming a more important metric for publishers websites as well done with those instead bought them and

Play me some website is almost indistinguishable from the mirror and it just slightly lower and like you'd expect but it doesn't have enough sense of fun that it doesn't feel that to me today going back to that website for any particular reason they designed their home pages are one thing I'm dying thing these days they still important for the brand but the way the people land on the star and Express website is through social media by finding stories at going viral on their feeds.

I think the mirror I'm not so sure about the Express and Star but I the one thing that Unites all of these websites.

Is there all a terrible experience? They are slow to load the pages.

You are bombarded with advertising you are bombarded with videos and I

Struggle to click on the links.

I died by trying to avoid it because I know I will not get a good experience that's interested.

I do that as well.

You do that and then totally do that when you when you want to look for new store in you search for it.

Do you make a decision on which provide your click on not based on the quality of journalism absolute house that every single day.

I must admit I do that as well.

I think the user experience is absolutely critical is Jake said it's not just about the story.

I think the 40 million in a way.

It's just a bit of a red herring not least because in a News UK and just behind the 38 million and 37 million reaches a very very rough and basic measure.

It doesn't really tell you is Jake saying about engagement you want to know how long people are on there.

You know the extent to which they return and if that for commercial purposes which doesn't give you anything.

What matters is how long are your consumers on that side because that's what you buy you buy impacts you don't buy reach so I think it's sort of a non Stornoway what's interesting is that you know?

As a company have been really changing quite dramatically they change their management.

They've really been focusing on digital absolute drive on digital and I suppose you could argue.

This is some sort of validation strategy and very confused you know and I'm sure people listen to this may well be confused because of retreating the reach of difficult is called Reach and it's now saying it's got this amazing of unique users but what I don't quite understand is if Google sites totalled 49.6 million and reach the company is getting too.

I mean that intuitively doesn't seem quite right to me.

I just thought Google would be huge by comparison or am I being naive UK numbers and the UK and the reach numbers are all territories, so that could be someone Googling Kim Kardashian from Canada just confusing.

My goodness they're up there with victorious News UK govt approves next impressively forensic recently anyway and that lasts about 6 weeks or so, so it would be helpful though, even with a good story.

It was an accurate good story and then you will comparing apples and apples is a shareholder community.

There is just for a legendary Media quiz today because it is about the death of a broadcasting veterans who influenced our modern Media landscape in more ways than one.

I'm talking of course about the tv, critic and writer Clive James who this week as his Battle with leukemia and the TV chef Gary Rhodes who died.

Aged 59 so I'm going to ask you three questions about the men's lives and work all you have to do is give me the answer before your opponent you buzzing with your name when you know the answer to Jake you will say I call you something else ok, let's go, what was the title of Gary Roses first full series for the BBC in 1994.

I don't know we have very funny name clue spiky hair is it Rhodes around Britain Rhodes around Britain was roads around for similar programs including open Rhodes new British classics and a series of MasterChef which was really think the gods of death is very sad actually.

It was with you.

He was right the TV was the first the first proper was one of the first Big hosts of MasterChef vegan donnellys the individual shows yeah, he was responsible for a big revolution in British cuisine and the real sadness about this is he was about to do is first TV he was on a break in filming when he died and company called Rock Oyster maker Media was making the show I hope that maybe ITV and Rock Oyster Media can get together and bring some of it to the screen.

I think I will be a really good tribute to him because he's I guess you know people think of him.

I suppose the spiky hair and it was a while ago but actually what's your heritage was staying in that peace was the travelogue thing was basically ripped off by Rick Stein and the cool young chef do things right.

Jamie Oliver actually almost everything that we see in cookery now that wasn't established by sort of friendly Craddock and Delia Smith was first done by Gary Rhodes and he's clips of him yesterday and his pasta with the audience the way the engages with the camera the way he talks about what he preparing the skill and precision with which he cooks is utterly engrossing and hypnotic.

I thought it was lovely.

I was once on the Tube and there was a woman opposite mean.

I think she must be a relative of his and she been to a show or something and she was saying.

Oh, yes or Gary this Gary that sounded so warm and lovely and I thought he came across incredibly well.

What was the title of Clive James is best known TV review show I don't have a bonfire in this and produce Night Live

Imagination believes it is best known anyone else Clive James on TV called in the early 90s was brilliant.

I mean all the Japanese game show stuff again feels passe now didn't at the time before Clive James and videos of Revelation we can't believe people communicated in this way on television he brought that for the first time and he's writing about TV was just so good he was just an unlikely TV star because he's not the best looking TV star you know nothing obvious TV person, but he just had a wit and style and he was dry and he took the mickey and

Was you know acceptable and fun in every week and I want to try and book in for a show and a regional ITV well.

I don't blame him really because I rang him up by mistake at 3 in the morning because I didn't realise it was a broad still makes me squirm thinking of you do a TV Legend understood the power of the medium heel of TV and knew what it meant to people and I think that really came across in the way that Review TV as well.

I mean just because he was Australia I think that was so important Australian grey and intellectual and uncle people on the beach and travel.

This is your chance newspaper did Clive James write a TV column between clue not be observed between 2011 and 2014 the answer is the New York Times the Washington Post The Rumour was when the paper got a new editor-in-chief they sacked in Italy telegraph pole pole, it was the Daily Telegraph you've won the quiz congratulations.

That's impressive for today my thanks to Paul Robinson and Jake cancer if you like or up to him on the media podcast and you want to help us.

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