Read this: #119 - Edinburgh TV Festival Special 2019

Hello and welcome to the media podcast Edinburgh TV festival special, I'm Boyd Hilton entertainment director of heat deputy editor of pilot TV Magazine podcast and host the footballer stickley Arsenal on today.

Show will be talking about the BBC iPlayer extension the athletics mission to rewrite football covered in the UK and the risks and rewards of the TV in a global marketplace plus in the media quiz to spot the difference between real commissions and this festival and pictures we made up.

That's what I come in today.

So here.

We are we're Edinburgh under some stairwell and people kind of wondering by so you might hear noise in the background, but don't worry about that.

We needed in TV Talent show me the big stories of the festival joining me is CEO of nine lives Media cat Lewis welcome editor of The Guardian no less Jim Waterson hello.

For the first time at Channel 4 dinner on Tuesday and we already approached you to take part in this because I'm a strong arms you while you were slightly I'm saying slightly drunk to make sure you did you were going to come on and you agreed but also true of the has been commissioned to make what kind of you do a production company for 12 years in the North based in MediaCity now.

We were the first independent to win one of the BBC Songs of Praise so that's something that that is very close to my heart and I'm particularly pleased because we've just managed to do the first same-sex marriage on surprised.

It's wonderful stop with the jungle festival, how many fans does you been to gym? So this is my second year at Edinburgh which I know makes me a relative newbie and I'm coming to the media World from the outside.

6 bit like politics has this annual Party Conference thing where it was incredibly boring and the white wine is terrible and all the rest Media festivals by comparison a wonderful does the splits dessert everyone keeps knocking slightly more measured.

It's much nicer.

You're saying Media people are less snarky than the media industry, but you know there is actually world beneath this and what's your highlights so far.

I have basically found myself covering Channel 4 commissions for most of the first couple of days not least I'm currently trying to talk about a program next door in which Scarlett Moffatt has they've move her entire County Durham to Namibia and it's one of those where I go.

I want to have been in the meeting.

Well.

That was commissioned cos I just I sometimes and baffled by how TV people come up with ideas.

Removing a house brick bible reading that replicate that they just in case it and find out some pebbledash to Namibia stood out for you got the two conferences and it's like people are discussing events in discussing topics.

What's been your highlight that given that as well as everyone agreeing very strongly with a load of white men on stage.

They care very much about diversity and that's the number one priority for the industry.

I've been particularly intrigued by saying I mean LU3 was very entertaining and also ever been just quite frank about the fact that younger audiences.

Just watching telly like rather than sort of trying to pretend that they're all gonna at some point this seriously tuning everyone just need to think about things in a different way to measure things differently actually it's all about streaming anyway.

Yes, I know that I'm in a big shift into First

Is 21 years the key I think to a great Edinburgh is to have the person on whose kind of everybody's talking about the time so you know obviously the Killing Eve masked is going to be amazing.

You know what are the young people watching or do they not watching and I think that's been somewhat forgotten in the old days is all the 20s and the advertisers use to pay 10 times more for every viewer between the age of 18 and 34 and that's just told we will grow old giving each other jobs.

You know and they need to go back to that.

This is why the people I'm watching the control Channel 5 because he was given up trying in a young people and I just going for old people in their contract with that still still spend money on stuff to get to advertise, so you know advertisers.

I even have an ongoing shopping list which is everything that I buy every different product that I'm not very easy to convince to buy a product because I'm trying for you know.

I'm kind of this is the problem if we don't change the way we think when will end up with The Dying audience so with Songs of Praise we basically have reduced the audience when we inherited it was so I'm not going exactly because it's probably all confidential but anyway we produce the two years the average age because if you don't tackle that problem of audience is getting older than you will end up with let's talk about some specific stories that happened or happening in the media right now since we last continue podcast two more about the festival itself later on the iPlayer extension because this something was happening at the moment that the BBC talking about here at the festival has become a big story of the papers reporting out that so basically we get to see stuff on.

What do you think is the ultimate for this? Is it may be that it's good for the public good for us or the item is at the moment iPlayer is one of the most frustrating products around like stop thinking about the industry, so I just think of the consumer the amount of times.

I asked about 3 or 4 weeks.

I really wanted to watch you go on and you'll find it's got episode 325 is completely useless when you used to almost any other format so as a consumer.

It's brilliant if your Channel 4 or anyone else have a catch-up service you're wondering why the BBC is allowed and I'll be very interested to know what the Independent producers which we have filled wants to have directed their getting the right from Ofcom to have stuff on iPlayer box sets etc for whole year, but they don't want to pay the people make them anymore money for that is that is that there is a small independent.

Like myself nine lives been going to have you as I'm 100-percent.

Oh, no, there is no secondary sales in the UK that haven't been any secondary cells for a very long time.

I make a lot of programs as a lot of northern producer for the wonderful Ben flower and Channel 5 can have rolled in Cannock secondary sales a very long time ago so as far as I'm concerned at this juncture with such a huge change in television what we need to do is not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

We all have to take the Long View and we all have to think how do we make sure that we secure public service which is the reason why we are the best producers in the world and the reason why I program sell internationally so my view is that Ofcom and the BBC have been absolutely right in terms of allowing the 12-months to be honest.

I personally would allow them to have 5 years as they will do with children's programmes my team make the most wonderful children's documentary.

That win Awards internationally we just won the Rocky Ward in the band festival competing against every other country film should be available for children in the UK to watch and I would give it to the BBC to do so no international sales for those films as children's programmes if we don't get together now as an industry and take the long view of how we protect our public service broadcasters and risk of throwing out the baby with the bathwater the problem is that the super Indies don't really give a shit, don't you know I'm talking with a long-term view as an authentic indigenous producer.

I've always been exact producer outside London and this is what we should do we should put the BBC

BBC revise iPlayer performance measurement framework is very very heavy Ofcom reports like I came across as reading through which was basically the BBC's argument doing this is that we down to about sort of ten 15% market share and we need this just to maintain that that sort of the role that they're going to end up with they are not thinking that they're gonna in any way challenge Netflix with this and that is both side of a reason to wait through and also slightly terrifying at the same time.

It was absolutely that the biggest in the creative Industries you know it's incredibly important that we enable them to do what they need to do is broadcaster, and I personally disagree equally with what the current curator of Channel 4 Alex you know has decided to do in terms of giving 100% of the revenue to produces only talk to pack don't represent the

I won the Indy club, we have members that are running smaller and he's outside London she should have come to talk to us as well.

Which is what the BBC did she should have talked to direct 2K they would have a very good opinion as well and what it is, but my opinion is that Alex was over generous to give 100-percent of back and revenue taking a car or not out shows their commission terms of trade at the moment work brilliantly in our favour in this country and to be lucky if you're an American producer and I know the broadcast of play 100% and expect to 100% and as far as they're concerned why on earth would they in a so what that means as a producer in American producer for hire you can never grow your company at the only reason might be able to build my company over 12 years of international sales revenue but I own the programs that I make yeah, so basically.

The danger with what Alex has done is that the other psvs feel obliged to do the same? I'm sure they won't because they couldn't afford it, but you know if they do then what that mean long-term will be really threatened.

We have this fantastic balance at the moment where we work with the broadcasters with their commissioners will create formats, but hey we get 85% of the revenue but we give them 15% of the revenue to help cover the cost of those commissioners etc to ensure that they've got skin in the game to have a situation in the UK with the reverse of the situation in America to me crazy and I think it's long-term it could threaten the PSP system in this country to know this is an extraordinary situation where this American sport website is British armed forces beginning of August what you think about this basically seem to have.

But some of the best football writers out there an extraordinary situation.

We now have to pay well if you want you can sign up and get 30-days free feeling about the whole athletic drive to nab the football writers build a dream team of writers in theory covering covering the clubs that you care.

I'm York City fan in the 6th division.

It doesn't really do a lot for me as a result but you end up with everyone in theory having to subscribe to read the best quality sports writing in the country.

I don't think it's a bad idea.

I think sports fans are obsessive in a way that most other readers aren't and there are certain people that they will follow and a lot of these people have been recruited as I got the following as much as because of their fantastic writing ability what I'm intrigued by his to see whether they get the sort of beyond the initial burst of Interest really get there.

I need a lot of money into my targeted ads on Facebook just full of things in flooring me to sign up at the moment, but if they're paying the salaries of people are talking about people who were getting sort of 30% is the jump ship and join them plus shares in the Business Plus they're not running any adverts quite a lot of people to make it work and having work to the venture capital backed new start-up which splash the bit of cash back in the day it can go wrong you can expand like mad and then find yourself with a very high cost base totally apostate example of how kind of you know content is King it's a shame when when stuff goes behind barriers because I was staying in her session which was brilliant.

It's all about kind of the British Public together, so she's bringing story and character to every different genre in a way that she told us she would do you know for a 5 years ago and was doing to an extent.

Every year it just gets better and better so this year for example in terms of natural history the seven worlds one planet series is clearly going to be brilliant from the clip that we were showing at the BBC whatever it's called controller fantastic is trying to set up a football club.

Yeah, when I was at school.

I just wanted to play football.

I wasn't allowed I was told it was actually physically dangerous for girls to play football and isn't it now was supporting his brilliant women who playing football for us all over the world turned up for the free 30-day trial thing.

Turn off the podcast in depth long narrative driven storytelling art it's all about deep dive store eating actually is quite appealing model but what I'm telling you actually we were told as programme makers for many decades that no man wanted to watch Women's football and that's why they make people engage the three part of that they commissioned.

I still can't get my head around TV and the time it takes to get a document in 2021.

I want to watch this tomorrow.

Can't we just sort of get out and do a livestream if I just want to see data sharing his thoughts on various things.

This is a man who having had so much power for course of a decade for.

Some good and perhaps a lot more ill has managed to basically avoid my scrutiny is given about three or four interviews and written about three or four articles in the last saw 20 odd years and so to actually get to understand the man who shaped modern Britain in many ways to show what do you think about that whole idea? I personally would have commissioned an hour called the story of the Daily Mail outside Media circle.

Don't you know he gives a shit you know they really don't it? Won't get viewers.

I'm afraid it should be a one-time 60.

What we've all been doing for the last 20-years in television is been made unfolding narrative story.

Is it going to take us to the allotment? Is it going to take us to his place in Spain you know?

I mean, I love you and I love what you doing.

I'm sorry we don't give a shit, but that's it for one will be back to dissect Dorothy Byrnes mactaggart lecture after this book is part 2 before we get to the McTaggart I wanted to mention how the theme of the festival this year, so it's all is what is td40 just in passing Jim what did it take me for what people here think TV is off and seems to be a very high concept saying something about the state of the nation and there's definitely that there's another bit of TV which I think is slightly under analyse the moment which is that sort of pervasive background.

They sort of people watching Netflix series on endlessly.

Just to sort of have something comforting buy them and you've got the sort of two things you got the special commission that goes out on BBC One the deal.

Big issue of the new drama and then you've also got the sort of wallpaper content which is a lot of people what TV is now the biggest circles on his friends.

He is in the old Wrekin phrase to educate to entertain to inform but I've got an addition to change the world what it takes is commitment of news and current affairs Dorothy Byrne was chosen to give the mactaggart lecture the keynote address at this year's festival in the festivals history abroad humor candor and a dead fish to The Apprentice national Conference Centre he is one of the highlights of her speech that a director would take me out to teach me the basics of filming and he was sexually assaulted me, but I wasn't to take it personally because he sexually assaulted all women he worked with.

Showing off he did a sort me one of the few examples in my career of the promise of a boss coming true.

Is a salt with a criminal offence complain to I learnt early on that as a woman I was on my own so you probably want surprise about Dorothy Byrnes me to what does it teach us about the state of the industry then and now but actually she said exactly what needed to be sad and I was so incredibly proud of her.

She was absolutely right that we need to find a way of holding these politicians to task they used to respect for television and unfair for interviews and for communicating with the public which has disappeared because quite frankly they would all rather do what the Ludacris Trump is doing currently god on Twitter they would all rather call themselves God and speak to us directly as opposed to going through the forensic nature of journalism.

But what I thought was particularly brilliant was the way that she interjected humour throughout you know and the way that she took us to that point where she landed you know her key arguments.

I thought it was on some previous previous mactaggart.

Lecture is like James and Rupert Murdoch Kelly also said that one of the collection was delivered by sex parties not had their comeuppance.

Yeah, which are lawyers the Guardian certainly have kittens when trying to work out whether you could identify as a 40 or people which one it was but what what what intrigued me actually was to sort of slightly nuance and not quite a bit of cold water on the idea that politicians being national indulging these TV scrutiny events that they are trying to avoid the interviews you got to start going on.

Why wouldn't they if Boris Johnson can do a Facebook live feed and if you

STV News is going to use the pictures regardless and he knows all that I ever tauriel control all of us are running away all of us saying that's just really not how you should do it if you can get away with that why you know why would you not do that and I hate that is a point.

I don't like it.

I don't think it's right.

I don't know is ethical but you've got to start thinking well.

Ok, how do you box them into having do these ones if TV audiences are getting older if the TV news audience is getting particularly older.

How do you say you got to do this because it's the only way you can reach the nation you do is you give the platform to somebody like Jess Phillips you know if Jess Phillips was standing against Boris Johnson and Jess Phillips you didn't wonderful session here at Edinburgh have I got to know and she's a genius.

You know if she was going around the country talking and every local radio station speaking in a local news rooms you no speaking on the BBC News

You can because she is brilliant then that would Force whoever was standing against her to actually up their game and come in so you're absolutely right.

I totally agree with you.

We got a false anybody to do what we can do is encourage candidates who are brilliant to use our medium in the way that it has a long-term why would Dominic Cummings looking after Boris Johnson having seen what year did to the interesting point that you know the lion constantly that the trump some 10 habits of lies should every bullet and start with something like the prime minister lied again today.

Everything can be solved through the formats that we had before which were in an era, when not everything was immediately challenge when candidates can immediately accuse a news outlet of inherited buyers the moment things put up they disagreed with there's Only One Direction that this is going and it ain't going to be pretty.

I know that's not exactly an optimistic case but at the same time in these species.

You know she's mocking Dominic Cummings the number 10 strategy going in talking about his EU subsidies for his farm in the near future.

That's not a bad thing but we're setting ourselves up for a us on a sort of time-delay system of the politicians vs.

The media.

I don't see how we avoid that to the Russian situation that you know it's going to be people doing their own hours, Longford

And I think it's incredibly important that we speak truth to power if we as journalists and producers don't speak truth to power who will and it's absolutely right say that if we know that something is factually inaccurate even if it's the next day.

They actually you know what was reported.

We checked it out.

That's what we've paid to do.

We spent all day checking it out not 5 million reports in the journalism.

Kind of way we actually checked it out properly.

It wasn't true and now telling you that wasn't true and she's absolutely right to say what she said.

I don't know I completely believe in that and I do like that a lot myself but to be the blue mugge on This podcast every time I've ever done fact checks.

They've been held up triumphantly by the side that is indicates been dismissed as irrelevant by the side.

They already believe the original point the only thing that I can think that will really break through and that the TV news should be doing a lot more of.

Is trying somehow somehow to block people to come to the point where they feel they need to come on and do a long format if you did have a look at some of the podcast and some of the Youtube interview to do well.

I don't like it, but things like Joe Rogan for better or worse he can get millions of viewers to sort of weird sprawling unstructured not massively critical actually interview and people seem to tune into that.

I'm not saying a pretty one that format that is something that seems to get a new audiences finally there are some of the interesting announcements, but I'm on the genuine commissions might be some cakes with made up.

So can you stop the imposters in red light green light? I read you the picture a new show you say your name and if you think it's a green lights for a real show or red light for fake so number one and epic science show for Amazon and Robin Richard Hammond and Tony Bellucci showing a serious lack of regard for health and safety.

Jim I think I think that's probably happening yes correct.

It's the same title chosen else by Amazon boss, Georgia Brown and I control the session and she says it will be epic number to drama about an aging star whose life is disrupted when a photo of her in a compromising position is leaked is I hate Susie will be reunited Billie Piper secret Diary of a Call Girl creator Lucy prebble and Billie Piper will start in the show the whole thing and adaptation of the best selling horror novel what channel 5 drama with a doctor who director on a Russian team that seems suitably on Channel 5 they probably is real is that happening? It is real based on Susan Hills book the and a ghost story the small hand will come to Channel 5 and haunting modern adaptation by writer Barbara Mac in creative BBC's waking the Dead and will be directed by someone who died in Doctor Who

Former One Direction star Liam Payne getting deep into the wilderness conversations out in the countryside and finally a new Channel 5 show called eaten by an elevator when machines attack yes, I so Channel 5 that's got to be happy.

They just do big machines and trains and that's basically going to be real question is red light, but there is an actual Channel 5 show called eaten by an escalator which is has just gone out and about to go out when that machines attack but not by me, but maybe I'll do the elevator version after that tastes.

Thank you very much.

Thanks so much for your incredible insights.

It's been amazing and to Jim thank you.

Take time out of your hectic schedule.

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