Read this: #116 - Brexitcast to TV, Homophobia on YouTube, BBC vs Pensioners - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man we are recording today at podcast a in London the podcast in conference organised by radiodays Europe will update you on all the big scenes from today sessions plus the changing Googles algorithm that left mail online with half as many site visits the ongoing struggle for YouTube to maintain order and in the media quiz we play regulation for the nation.

It's all to come in today's Media podcasts today for the first time on the New Look Media podcast we was on the Guardians Media talk when the old king died.

It's James cridland radio futurologist and editor of pod news welcome back.

Thank you so much.

It's so wonderful to be here and it was the UK Australia I do indeed so brilliant.

I'm really looking forward to talking about the media industry for a country that I don't live in any more global global player but not global player.

Also joining AC vacuum in MD of something else regular voice on the show hello Ollie what big things I come out of sessions so far and how long will it take you to talk about the bright star in the brights or David Tennant seems I think I think search and some stuff Google up to his been really interesting the BBC's been talked about how they're trying to make you lots of different technologies that different types of broadcasters using that's been really interesting into the Hat how you make podcast in a regular or an easier part of the broadcasting creative Innovations there's some wonderful examples here today.

I've just popped in many different ways are innovating brilliantly and you do actually even though you're not in the UK that often spend your life going around the world going to conferences like this.

What yes, I've never been to a podcast conference know that I've been to loads of radiology conferences including your one nextradio which is sort of about radio, but social media and podcasting as well.

Yes, that is this typical of the podcast.

You go to I mean there's a lot of people yeah.

Yeah, there's a lot of different podcast events and I don't work what's interesting at this one.

Is that it feels quite corporate.

It feels quite grown-up you go to some of them.

So podcast movement is a grey conference which happens in August that's fascinating busy you end up with essentially three different conferences going on at same time.

So you have the passion podcast is who are learning you know how to use music in intros and things like that and then you have upstairs.

You have some complicated.

You know advertising technology conversations and then if you look really carefully.

There's a load of really scared radio executives.

Who are there going or it's all strange world and so you get the sort of interesting Mix and I think you know what's been nice podcast days that it's been a very much more inclusive conference with all of that kind of thing at it.

I think what you know one of things.

I took away was the chap from NPR was talking about their up first podcast which is a daily news podcast in sing.

Different the audiences for that van for morning edition which is the that the radio show it comes from an actually how it talk to a completely different audience completely different age group 40% of whom have never heard morning edition on the radio and I think you know really interesting seeing her radio and podcasting work together in that and all that kind of business and corporate nurse Steve it's no longer something that people necessarily have to feel isolated from even if they are a passion podcast I mean you running in Hindi something else you now having a where you didn't have 10 years ago a range of options to take me to podcast to there's audible there's the BBC you know there's Spotify you can self producing you can put on a car and get AIDS from me.

I mean there are a million ways now to get your audio out there.

It's an incredibly exciting time and I think it's not just getting all your out there for me the the Keating I think form for my bigger podcasts or someone who who made it by chance develop something that becomes a hates is that for the first time really I think.

Any audio world we've got a global marketplace in the same way that the TV world does and really for the first time I P has a value and that's really really exciting as audio producers because back in the day the what you know that just didn't really exist and there's no doubt about it now.

If you've got an idea you can obviously monetize that as the podcast but clearly you can also make money by watching ads TV or doing live shows all the other ways possible an incredibly exciting it is really like the wild west in the world at the moment in a way that I've never seen before in my career and some of the asked you to an advertising micro tears well.

I mean I'm careful what I say here because I advertise beer on one of my podcast there's no regulation around that there's no regulation about the way you talk about drugs if you talk about the money podcast that was sort of more acceptable when it was more amounts of money being passed between clients, but this is now going to be a big industry think it's going to be a big industry and also a big industry which is a global industry.

With a small g which actually them therefore means that there are lots of different rules that you have to follow across the world one of the conversations which appears probably every 3 or 4 days in Facebook groups is how much music can I use in a podcast and the answer is 0 of course lots of people start talking about you know they use well.

We have no such thing.

We have a thing in the UK called said Ealing they have fair dealing in Australia but it's different and there are different rules and so on and so forth so actually there's all of this Maya of regulation and lots of different laws all over the place and I think that's something that podcasting which frankly is a very possibly the only global truly global Media is going to have to you.

No deal with a thing and one of the big sort of podcasting crossing into other media stories come out the conference today.

Steve is the news that brexit cost is going to be on telly in the this week's lot this laughter.

Yes, that's a good idea.

Well, I think as someone who is obviously very passionate about podcasting and whose business is also investing heavily in podcasting.

I think it's fantastic because we've still got you know 80% of the population who don't listen to podcasts and so by creating a TV show that is a podcast and is very much putting the podcast at the centre of the TV show The not tryna you know now turn it into a TV show they still want the podcast be front and Center that's a fantastic thing because it's all about raising awareness of of podcasting.

Will it work for them to answer from what I saw that they done that they truly are looking to maintain the spirit of the of the podcast and in effect.

It's a well-informed conversation informal conversation by people who really know their stuff and who had great chemistry between them and that's what they're looking to maintain and I thought I should when they announce that.

I thought what a breath of fresh air it when you're looking for a politic show replacement on the BBC and when you particularly mind the shirts replacing which has been there for.

Years and years and years with Andrew Neil's to pay how wonderful that they should look to podcasting as as the idea that they latch upon all the people in be picking her nose because they are on the telephone United interesting I mean for those who aren't here today.

What they were saying was the producer of the podcast is the exec producer of the TV show and the team with very insistent that he should be the person creatively leading it.

They've built are the guilty technically in terms of vision mixing and stuff so they're actually he doesn't necessarily need to make those decisions is automated which again you think is much more like I said a radio studio was going for Kermode and Mayo you know that automated system where it shakes on the voice very interested because it means they're not looking to bring in a TV producer.

turn it into a TV shows think they are looking to film a podcast and I think it was a difference in that will the Podcast episode you know be the one that you just seen on the telly for next day and I don't know you had involved in brexit news about podcasting although it was announced here at podcast a is that the Obama's have signed a deal to produce podcast for Spotify tell us some Spotify doing a lot of exclusive deals at the moment and clearly they want a lot of great content to go into Spotify so that you have to use Spotify you know to have a listen but I think I actually you know it's it is very interesting just so they're taking a step back and looking what Spotify do it because they are beating apple in many countries in the world partially because spotify's obviously available on Android phones as well as on Apple phones, which podcast not on Android trains to them now, and it's one of the things that I think that Apple should be doing I have helped build a

Apple podcast app for Android you already have an apple music app.

Why not build an apple podcast app and the other thing by the way is enabled a subscription model because you've got all of the tech and it should be really easy for you, but you know so Spotify done that only last week.

They also enabled a better players that work on websites and work on social media and stuff like that and I suspect that this is the reason why all of a sudden we've seen apple wake up from a deep deep slumber and apple and our caring about podcasting again redoing categories apples now available on the web and it's got a nice beautiful player apple and reworking how theme the Mac experience of a podcast will work searching through transcripts.

You know all of that kind of stuff.

I suspect that we wouldn't have seen that if Spotify work now.

Heavily breathing down their neck and the bombers show Obama produce network of shows you know what they're going to be doing now we down and it seems to have echoes of.

The Builder obviously the obamas announce with Netflix in the world who are looking to produce podcast as much as they looking to produce iron TV shows not the other entity thing about the announcement.

I'm pretty sure within the quotes Everything was a comment about one of the things are looking to do with their podcasts is one out the range of Voices that are hurting I know that that's a big part of spotify's mission as well.

They're very very keen to to tap into more diverse voices and so in that sense so who better to try and then the Obama's you an incredible couple Media commentator in the US Doug Erickson who asked the question.

Why isn't commercial radio doing this? Why isn't the radio industry going ok? You would like to produce some fantastic content we are here for you or was it because commercial radio thought that people wouldn't be interested.

Was it because nobody thought about it whatever it is.

It's probably not saying very positive things about the commercial radio industry in the US so I think there's an interesting site in O2 that the differences on radio you do respond to the voice speaking to you direct me when you happen to turn it on and if it isn't literally Barack and Michelle if it's someone they're inspired by the commission to do a thing cc1plus isn't it self-selecting median might be available left persuasion mean you want the mind opened will find that content but if you're Absolute Radio and it's not Barack Obama it someone else.

Are you going to agree though? You might argue that something like the Chris Evans Deal runs counter to that because there's someone there a radio station is post because they want to you know bring audiences in I think that's a really intriguing question what what James through Erica's just has just raise and I think I think it shows two things first of all the the sort of audiences only we know that the really aggressive audience growth on podcasting is amongst the younger demographic send and therefore.

I think this move speaks to

To that into the trying to reach younger voices, but everything is it does reflect something about the ambition of of radio and I think sadly for a long time lots of a radio with its public service or commercial radiators sometimes lacks ambition in a way that I think we're seeing quite aggressively and lots of France on the podcast front of the moment.

Ok beautiful Kirsty but I'm sure it will come back through some interesting and we are a podcast.

I talk about online traffic now and visits to the mail online site from Google searches have dropped by half after the search engine changed its algorithm at the start of Gina James Google say they weren't trying to liberally to people away from a landline it just happened because they change their algorithms shame if you look at what the MailOnline does it say reprehensible company United interesting about you and everybody else.

Rewrites than ever so slightly and stick them out on their own websites and SEO guy I can hear the Daily Mail van is coming to take me away so that they can actually gained some grubby advertising money out of that and their and they're sidebar of shame it said it's a horrible grubby company and I employ hundreds of British evidence doesn't it? They may be copied other peoples stories, but they don't do have to check their sources and then our trained and qualified and pay and journalists inverted commas in Australia as well.

Lol you know copy typists absolutely on the other hand Google has always penalised you for copying other people's content is a standard thing that Google has done when you look at some of the stuff that mail Online is done apart from you know ruining people's lives on all of that stuff then actually you know I have no no concerned about this it all goes on Google sites online that are getting Google

Think about the are you know you may not have injections to the I politically like you might about mail online but often there journalism isn't as rigorous yet to the top of Google ranking around this area so many going on what I've read is that were the same.

They don't actually quite know what's happened here and that Google would been saying that you don't have the same pattern of behaviour hadn't happened to have a new sites.

May be like the IR other other side loader seynabou seems like they're bit baffled as to what's happened to your site and the fact that they have lost future traffic from Amelia podcast perspective in terms of trying to just understand what's going on it.

It sounds like no one actually really knows that the current point in time.

I'm sure somebody is going to talk about machine learning artificial intelligence anytime soon, but I think actually what what some of the systems that Google have in place.

Nobody really quite knows why it pushes certain pieces of content and white pulls pieces of the pieces of

Content down and they and they have issues with some of the podcasting things that they're doing as well and they got issues with various other things and I think it's just it's difficult to produce rules that will make a search engine work that don't sometimes work in weird ways and that perhaps that's what we're actually seeing much to my Glee of obviously, but perhaps that's what I actually see what the bailiff.

Come out with the statement may essentially saying or its own effect of too much is going to affect people searching for new stories obviously but a lot of our traffic anyway, tomorrow native app and all this Candy it does seem to underline the wisdom of media companies finding ways for their customers their readers to connect them directly rather than through search engines at all that one of the things you say to emerge from the story that it just reiterates the obviously anyone publishing any form of content as much as you can and you want to be in control of that content for this exact reason particular monetization issues are all involved me know because we we we know the history.

What's going on with the newspaper industry and the online world, but there's lessons to be drawn for other forms of Media house of that as well podcasting included I think ok tell you now and after channel fours announcement to set up new offices in Leeds and Bristol some departments.

There are expecting up to 90% of staff will request redundancy that's according to the Guardian that is bad news for Channel 4 Steve I'm in a lot of staff potentially but I guess the opportunity to regenerate regionally which is the point of this exercise.

I think I think this is one of those stories that it creates quite nice Headland when you really look beneath.

It minder standing is when the BBC move to Salford I think the stats were pretty similar.

It's not really that much of a surprise in terms of lots of people obviously live in families with his two wage earners or where your kids are at school and answer the idea of sticks when you having this only plan to may not be appealing and ultimately what this is about is his same as it was for BBC moving to Salford it's not about lot

Stop everybody packing up and moving up to another city at as you just mentioned it really is about trying to use the creative Industries to to help Employment and health platform creative hubs in other parts of the country nicely.

You could argue the BBC moving to Salford that has happened there you go to Salford noun of CITV are there lots of other companies are there in and most people working there live within the locality you know the BBC's got past the point where it's management were commuting up and down with that sort of thing to desk and I mean I guess this is the same question that we were asking on the show weather BBC did move the stuff up to sort for just with a smaller amount, but if you were spending that 50 million quid and trying to increase diversity on Channel 4.

Would it be better to give it to replace Indies or put a new building in Leeds

Well, I don't you know when I live in Australia for the last 33 years and so I have the benefit.

I guess of looking into the UK as a sort of the semis foreigner and when you look into the UK's Media Industries he's fascinatingly centralised on London in a way that actually really doesn't happen in many other countries so Australia the media industry is split between Melbourne and Sydney and a bit of Brisbane not enough of Brisbane sadly but still there we are when you look at France you know it's a bit all over the country when you look at Germany again.

It's piss all over the country.

You know the US can I mean CNN comes from Atlanta that's ok now.

So you have to sort of you know large mix where has the UK specifically it still so london-centric and London focused I think it's a bad thing but also bad if you decide to take it a little bit wider in that London is essentially a different country and I think the United Kingdom

Great Britain and Northern Ireland actually has England Wales Scotland and London because we vote differently here in London we think differently of Europe here.

We have a very different views to the rest of England I think that's a real concern for where the future by the future of this country is going on here.

I think I would spend £15 on a building some of the people in London as well, Steve watch Channel 4 news and they revealed 9% for your audience is watching their flagship show at 7 p.m.

Every night Channel 4 so that's because of brexit fatigue like an excuse doesn't it? I mean you know I'll be sees audiences are on the BBC News Channel 4.

I can only tell you personally as someone who was a politic student at uni and he's fascinated up politics even I'm feeling a bit tired and weary with everything that's going on long would a flight be the last person to say that the reasoning.

Hi Natalie potentially Channel 4 News maybe suffers from the fact that its office in an earlier slot as well never really been in the most favorable slot for a big news show but I do think we also in a bit of a cycle where we see what it's not an election year as far as we know yet or not an election cycle brexit taking a bit of a Pause and really did get to that climactic moment where everyone feel a little bit knocked about I think cuz it was it was just getting so victory olic and so maybe in that sense.

It's a reflection of that people picking their commentators who talked about O'Leary brexit cars.

There are now I cast of people people will hear the brexit news from and sadly Jon Snow Christian Guru murthy, and then if you want to watch news after 7:30 at night tough because there isn't any unless you tune in to Sky News respray different beast that ever happened in Australia

Apart from all those police raids but anyway, let's not go there, but yeah, it is interesting that in the UK we have a culture of news A10 in Earnest as well.

I think that's always been a traditional slot in terms of a break between a late night shows and the and the beak entertainment show the evening as well because we've got this flagship programmes today on Radio 4 in the News at Ten on BBC and ITV and Dozer heritage France on going anywhere what's happened is the bit in the middle is where people now go to Twitter isn't it for that fluids up-to-date news don't need that kind of made.

Updates dear Channel 4.

It's always been a bit more of the to the thinking person's news hasn't it the report with a bit longer they tend to pick up some subject matter and some news stories that maybe the other news outlets don't follow as much and I will put the Delve into an issue to a Greater to my daughter's got lot more time to play with the show is longer.

Can I say something else as well?

Racism is a Channel 4 News real myself because I love that so I have noticed and I haven't heard anyone say this in a public forum because it's not a nice thing to say I think Jon Snow is too old I actually think he's losing it a bit I watch the shows and he forgets what he say any mum was his lines and it does get the point was getting a bit embarrassing now and I've not heard anyone articulate that but does a view of the show it is a bit embarrassing to all John Humphrys finally on the Channel 4 they have renegotiated their terms of trade with the Pact Alliance which represents independent auction companies 1 - standing on this is ok, so for those who don't know pak says you says the umbrella body basically that represents pre-match every TV independent producer and body in the way TV has evolved over the past 20 years or so and as you know the British market has been in a really big player in terms of the growth of the global tea market growth of format has been very very.

Influential within night indigo shooting rights for the Producers so that's backgrounds of this still my understanding is simple headline of it is that channel 4 have agreed to give up the automatic right to some of the international revenues that might be generated by the TV show produced by an independent producer for Channel 4 in exchange for Greater flexibility with the rights.

They might have over on-demand viewing so they're ability to play shows obviously on 4oD on YouTube and other places and I mean that something because they thought long and hard about that and it clearly says something that they may be feel about the state of the TV market and where it's heading and the importance of On Demand rights office in a world.

That's full of Netflix and Amazon Prime and grip box whenever it launches and all that sort of thing as opposed to the old model for TV producers of going and selling your format and seeing especially on repeating format seeing returning.

I'm using it 230 countries and all that sort of thing that exchange is clearly a fairly significant one in that in that sense of what used to be called terrestrial broadcast why would an indeed.com to ask for the knockout idea and a great cost rather than Amazon and Netflix you have to give them a reason he said something very similar about this couple of months ago.

I'm saying that actually live broadcast is a less interesting than going to Netflix and going to some of these other organisations because of the car about cipd actually do you actually take care that I think it's really really interesting time.

I think in media where the the opportunities that a large broadcaster gives you an actually rather less than the opportunities that you can get on some of the on-demand services OK Google media talk after this congratulations.

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Types of media news in brief Now YouTube have been accused of exploiting LGBT creators and ignoring homophobia on their platform James was after the box creator Carlos Maza a gay man has been trying to get the right wing YouTubers Steven Crowder Band by accusing him of orchestrating a hate campaign against him and sharing clips of him using homophobic language against him to there was a lot of pressure on them to remove crowders content, but they didn't think it's really difficult here in terms of taking people's content off a platform and I think that YouTube If YouTube do nothing then they'll get chatted and if YouTube take stuff off then I'll get shouted at reminds me of the conversation around patreon at the end of last year patreon which is a way of funding you know creative things like podcasts and other things what they did is they play Pulled a number of far-right activists off.

Their service which resulted in not people saying well done patreon for getting rid of Sundays hate speech it resulted in people actually doing the reverse and saying how dare you centre people even though I don't agree with them.

How dare you sent to them? So I think it is a very difficult very difficult balancing acts to work out what you take off what you leave on but I really feel for anybody that actually has to sit in work out a policy because there are no right or wrong as here.

I think well as point Steve was that YouTube don't just going to be partially sit back and allow anything on their platform.

They do make editorial decisions while simultaneously trying to Embrace the lgbtq community you know there's a YouTube pride march and stuff and here.

They are allowing someone who's selling T-shirts I can't remember exactly what the t-shirts overdose offensive slogan overtime as I paid as part of this story and say well.

That's freedom of speech.

Is it they seem hypocritical?

Very uncomfortable I'm going to do agree with difficult on lots of these issues because of the line is constantly shifting but I did look at the content from this guy the guy was being abusive and about it.

He was he felt a bit like the playground bully who says jokey stuff with a smile, but it felt a little but not limited felt very taunting of the the garden box who's complained and I really thought hard about how do I feel about that.

How come for does it make me you know I'm Jewish how would I feel if if if I take out those comments and put in a gentle anti-semitic comments.

I think about it in those contacts.

Are you trying put yourself into the picture whatever you're with someone might say about you.

I think it's very hard not to have an emotional reaction which is there has to be a responsibility here to to a degree and you know in a world where unfortunately often things are getting quite vitriolic.

There is a responsibility to help us ensure that we have a

Civil Society but then what should YouTube did they pull out of these pride events because I guess they say wouldn't they well these are the brand values of our company but another brand value is freedom of speech so we can do both things simultaneously.

I think it's just so so difficult and this is the absolutely fine.

Let's not have videos which her way too loud or let's not have videos where the red colour doesn't work because you can you can easily choose that in terms of a technical plan.

Yes this video does not work.

We will take it off but as soon as you start talking about what you can say what you can't say how you say whether or not it said sarcastically orange.es it just becomes really difficult and I don't know what the answer is I'm in one test and it's made a goes back to what we were talking about little bit earlier around regulation for podcasting one testis.

Obviously as a guide to say well in a broadcast environment.

What would be permissible by brokers? I mean terrestrial broadcasting adult in the UK that with Me Rhonda

And clearly when you're online exactly same as a podcast if you are not within a lot of common regulatory environment, but that might be one test so well.

It would be acceptable and a terrestrial platform.

Is it acceptable just because someone viewing it online in the Roman time and I think off and that could be a really good guide as to whether this is really something you should feel comfortable with or not amazing story in the New York Times at either of you say this about videos of children playing in swimming pools being referred on to people who are just watched softcore pornography and how the algorithms on YouTube nudge their viewers into watching younger and younger people if they start looking for pornography and then eventually onto perfectly innocent videos they have been re contextualized by YouTube's algorithm as satisfying a particular paedophilic gaze.

I mean that just seems completely like they've been no disagreement about the fact that that shouldn't be happening and yet.

It is what happens when you allow algorithms to run things about check ET

An algorithm which has clearly gone wrong in this particular case it is clearly doing something that the algorithm should not be doing or an arguably.

It's working as designed, but it it but it clearly shouldn't be working in that way you eat you there something.

I think you know it again.

It's algorithms.

Not necessarily working in the way that we would expect and that's again a difficult abraflex and just reiterates once again both from a regulatory perspective and obviously from a tax perspective just how out of step most western democracies legislation and legislators are with the modern world and with the way people are consuming content now and frankly if your YouTube you are a law unto yourself and you should be because no one is forcing anything on you and if you're a big gigantic corporation actually you know if no one's really forcing regulation on you then left eye left to you and that's where we start again, please.

Very grey area of what's right and what's wrong on BBC now and the BBC must do more to help older people according to the culture secretary Jeremy Wright after the Goblet of course made it for corporations responsibility to decide whether people over 75 should still get free TV licences and they decided James but they shouldn't BBC have actually decided anything else.

I think it's 750 million quid it's going to cost them a year is really hard.

I mean I I have to say I think it's amazing until now that the TV licence has been free to people who can afford to pay so now where the cut-off point is I don't know but I think it's very strange that you would give that a way to rich people and so you know you've got that sort of side to it, but yeah, I think the BBC have their hands tied.

It would have led to significant cuts off.

You know in time channels entire stations and I think the BBC again.

It's one of those damned if you do damned if you don't think I'm in a lot of it about never to be seen as focused around people.

You know my comment section is basically saying all Gary Lineker gets paid too much, but this isn't one or two Gary Lineker's is it this is the entire budget BBC2 and BBC Radio 4 example exactly that and actually the only just giving the polite answer.

I think the blunt answer is how outrageous of Conservative politicians in the middle of a conservative leadership election to be openly attacking the BBC when it was something they foisted upon the BBC in the full knowledge that it was going to get to this crunch point the other CVC what can have to make this decision because it was something the government were avoiding and didn't want to make because they knew that politically this was going to be really really difficult and sure enough you then of course of the Murray on the Sunday Telegraph lining up behind them and yes, I saw a letter and evening Standard last night from someone complaining of Gary Lineker's paid 1.75 million.

You know why the hell am I having to pay for my licence they're just such a ridiculous.

I dream in are very sorry for the BBC

Very angry about it because it is those exact politician to put the BBC in this position, but not conservative politician who made the original decision to cut TV licences for over 75's that was Gordon Brown that maybe never showed up in the first place.

It was always going at some point be unavoidable that may be reasonable if you could pay for the licence fee in the 70s.

They have no problem with this so should Gordon Browns announcement 20 years ago actually have been we're going to means-tested licence for you rather than him getting an easy outline of Wigan my J3 for old people probably about 20 years ago is a long time away in terms of the media in an anybody That's Happened since.

I just people who are on Pension Credit you will still get a free TV licence snowing at you know that that's quite right and important to bear in mind right.

Let's talk about Disney NBC universal and Warner Media who have just joined.

Clexane threatening to boycott Georgia the entire state of Georgia if they're abortion ban takes effect to this is withdrawing the filming of programs in Georgia as a result of I guess what the St George McCall the political decision.

Is is that the central idea to sleep when I think is a private business you have a right to take your business.

Wherever you so choose and to spend your money in whichever way you so choose and even though this office in America linosa Reloaded subject in this will be construed as a political move and maybe it is at the end of the day Disney and other businesses acquired title to say we don't feel comfortable filming in this place anymore and you know they have on cited their staff.

They've said one of the key reasons is they know that the sentiment amongst their staff is that they would not be happy working in a place where they have such strict abortion laws on working making a new show for Amazon

Theatre film might become pregnant it past six weeks of fetal development which is the new castle point and not even realise they're pregnant and then be trapped in Georgia cos that's where they're working could actually lead to a lawsuit I suppose then again lawmakers have to understand that decision to have consequences and nothing speaks louder in American money and in that sense.

I actually applaud these companies.

I think they've they've exercising affect their democratic right to choose to go and take their business elsewhere for James lots of production company has been filming in Northern Ireland for years for similar reasons tax cuts and they make it beneficial to film their and they have pretty restrictive rules on abortion to say something BBC saying estateware until very very recently in Australia it was illegal to have an abortion so I mean at the end of the day if you are a commercial company.

I think it's entirely up to you to spend your money, where you where are you and how you want to spend it and I mean that's absolutely fab.

Well.

You can hear the crowds the thronging crowds have come up to our gallery level here at Kings Place of their free coffee.

And we'd only gonna miss that so I'm just going to squeeze him.

I'll Media quiz we're calling this installment regulation for the nation.

I'm going to ask you three questions about Everyone's Favourite regulator Ofcom you just have to give me the answer before your opponent does Tzu just buzzing with your name when you know the answer James hey James you will say James and Steve you also.

Did you see the Guardian let's have a legal right to come march of next year.

Thanks for an Ofcom ruling fast internet.

I'm going to get high speed broadband or universal broadband service Every Home in the UK have the legal right to request access to broadband that delivers download speeds at least 10 mbps benefit around 620000 homes and offices in some of the most remote locations in the country.

Crucial sitting behind it is any country wants to be economically successful has to have this element of infrastructure OK how long will BBC programme say on iPlayer if approval is granted Steve I think it's a year for BBC programme up to a year earlier conversation isn't James I'm in again.

That's maybe a reason to make your show with the BBC now if that if they pull that I see people saying why can't I watch every show that BBC has ever made on iPlayer well? It doesn't work that way, but I think actually for them to be able to put in a year's worth of repair shows on there is really exciting ok? It's the tie-break cling onto that jetlag James you can really get your coffee.

Yes, there is a question number three wheel departing head of Ofcom Sharon white go when she leaves the regulator.

St John Lewis it is correct John Lewis Partnership from Charlie Mayfield Ofcom do you wanna play that game I mean that's nerdy anorak stuff, isn't it? And I really not really just Sharon why obviously came from a non Media background in appointment which means that you are the winner this week's time in a long time.

I've won the quiz say that is it today my thanks to Steve Ackerman and to James cridland if you like what we're up to here at the media podcast in you want to help us.

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