Read this: #115 - Kyle’s Cancelled, Evans’ Millions, Disney’s HULU - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show press freedom and politics Jeremy Kyle's TV ex's and the Struggle for minority LED companies to win commission + how Chris Evans has 1 million but lost 8 and in the media quiz we play Top of the Pops see if I guess can identify the latest developments in the podcasting nauticam in today's Media podcast animated a veteran of the show now executive editor of Business Insider UK it's Jake kanter hello.

Hi Julie song not the Monica veteran.

You are up there with Maggi brand now.

That's a steamed companies yet and you're totally not yourself if you miss the broadcast these days.

I always miss TV

Watching Chernobyl moment so that the big smile on his yeah.

I know just rung the subject ideas depressing while it's not uplifting that way and put it staggeringly good TV it kind of takes root in your brain and makes you consider the whole the whole the whole thing it was is it's just very well mate.

Probably the best thing that's got alantic has ever done this guy original isn't it's not an amazing but made by Sister pictures and the couple of other products.co.uk Rebecca you have an exciting announcement to bring us.

Yeah, I did say if you listen to the week's podcast week unwrapped.

You know that not that long ago.

We were alive podcast festival podcast live an Audi Brilliant Minds behind that Phil Riley and Tegan are going to do another one about the going to do several other ones but it's already one of them.

Is going to be true Crime focused so late and then you are tbc, but it's going to be extremely exciting as if your true Crime than it's going to be a must attend and why am I helping I'm helping out with that im creating as I'm falling so I'm going to have some readied myself enough really good British true Crime podcast now.

Do you think to compete with the American ones same question I asked about Chernobyl in away.

Yes, absolutely amazing in fact.

There's been some of the pioneering true Crime podcast have been British find my favourite murder get lots lots of attention and it's kind of the major one atom which is us one, but it's actually a British one called all killer no filler which is been going on for a even earlier than my favourite murder serially Bridge pockets have been leading the way and they still going strong Rebecca is typical of the true Crime listen apparently Jay did you know this it's all about millennial women really small doses.

I think they have they have to be small doses and spread far apart because they do infect your mind.

I think is extremely unethical but clever.

Oh yeah.

Today we're going to talk about illegal review into the treatment of to Northern Irish journalist raising concerns over what they arrest means for press freedom Rebecca what's the story and the story is an ongoing case involving to Northern Irish journalists and Trevor Birney and Barry McCaffrey and they were investigating an incident in 1984 16 Catholic man with gun down by Anonymous gunman in a pub in locking Ireland and Northern Ireland and they participated in the documentary about the incident called no stone unturned which heavily insinuated that the Northern Irish police have been involved in premature cover-up and the identities of the suspects were known to police no one has ever been charged and they named the suspects in.

And then soon after that they believe that they began to be harassed by police and it culminated in police raiding their homes and offices and seizing vast amounts of data and material from them much of which didn't even relate to the loughinisland killings and all of which was months if not years was me after the broadcast of This documentary yeah, and so basically at the lawyers for the the two general is a contending that the police just don't basically they're trying to have a Kinder chilling effect on other Northern Irish journalist.

He might want to look into some of the units of the mercat incidence of The Troubles cos are still a lot of unicorns that haven't been solved and murders that have just been buried and their contention is that this is kind of of persecution of journalist.

He might want to uncover some of that is Sunday stories.

I'm not the sort of thing therefore would check that really the British Police should be doing issuing warning signals to journalist not to report things well.

It's chilling isn't it? And if you look at them wearing at the moment where?

Jeremy Hunters just launcher3 glitzy review of defending journalistic freedoms with Amal Clooney this man could be argued prime minister and when we have that going on in the background.

It kind of makes a mockery of the whole process.

Doesn't it? Do you think it's likely though that the only joking get what they want which is for the police to abandon their case cos they might have a case.

They may have come across some of these sources illegally and that's I mean.

That's fine to investigate that isn't it is a different thing to go into someone's house and start rifling through all their possessions on the basis of One documentary that came out ages ago the court proceedings are ongoing at the moment.

I'm at the court has ruled that the police have to keep everything sealed and Anna, but the journalist want to material back and that still ongoing effectively on hold until then I mean they're not allowed to leave the country without permission from the police.

She's kind of Extraordinary and I guess the backdrop as well as what's happening here and you went to Jeremy Hunt and I will clearly but actually it's an international backdrop when journalists being persecuted all over the place in big point prison all the rest of it and off and we talked on this show about how we Britain I can't even the uniform that sort of thing that we've got to the fair play rules of cricket here and that's not the sound of care.

I think this case proves that yeah, this is not this is not a good situation for the journalist involved in it's not good for industry and you see the level of support these two individuals are getting I think the government should take a long hard look at this and and considering to be eating and in the meantime Rebecca we let me speak to you in the Sun she's been indicted by the US for espionage cases from like the tension because it really does call into question what press freedom really means and I think what it brings up to me as a bit of variety of charges and you know this country pending on your standpoint.

There's varying degrees of legitimacy.

I mean one of the main complaints made against Julian assange's WikiLeaks documents reveal the names of confidential sources whose lives could then have been in danger, and I think you know that certainly a thread that I think most people say was worth pursuing but you know the cumulative effect of the charges does seem to be that they're targeting him for essentially embarrassing the US government and US military abroad and that's obviously something that is well within the genus remit and also protecting a source in one case is being interpreted as espionage.

I mean Alan Ross pictures peace in the Guardian was quite interesting was anyway, basically said look I thought sounds was a bit of a dick but it reinforced a lot of my view.

It's a bit cold, but yeah, what's happening to him is wrong.

Some of the some of the good work that he has done in the past has been undone by some of his actions that followed I think I mean yeah.

He has evaded Justice he's been skateboarding around the confines of of London

Embassy is grandma silly beard in a minute and then there's more serious questions about his mental health come out in the last few days, but yeah, this case is not going to go away anytime soon and just add Rebecca to this of growing menacing backdrop for anyone missing journalist you had the hole for a few weeks ago with the brexit party, Bannon Channel 4 news from their events.

Yeah that this was a rollover brexit party rally the brexit party said that channel 4 journalist had lied to get access to restricted area and then they had refused to leave Channel 4 said they basically planner been honeytrap.

They were invited there by a brexit party official and then they were accused of all of these things and bad it generated a very Swift backlash and then the brexit party reversed the decision the following day.

We have long-term ramifications in accents, but it brings up cos I don't you know is very reminiscent of Donald Trump revoking CNN 2:30 and white house event link.

I think we laughed at thinking you know this.

Is another example of trump behaving like a dictator this is ridiculous and then we see an example of something similar happening in this country where no political parties are trying to call The Shots about who can report on them in the centre who can actually say something about them, but another point because of what Channel 4 news says was true.

So if Nigel Farage is is saying you're a brexit buses and you don't like you talking about that that doesn't make it fake news know it.

It doesn't hand or right you say there was a backlash when it was interesting that some of the broadcasters didn't give their full throated support for Channel 4 and I don't know if you saw them at least I had a Twitter thread where you said he would check back with responses from broadcasters to what had happened to the van and there was there was one I think from LBC global and basically said we don't comment on these these kind of issues and I was him saying which other broadcasters would would join a boycott of the brexit parties events April

Phone using in this particular case and support their support their cause in in getting them.

They return to the front line of reporting on there on the brexit party anyway shame that the ban only lasted a cos.

We never really did get a chance to see if ITV or BBC would mean overdue respond to that and would show solidarity the channel for it never quite got the chance to see how it would play out you would be your view on Mac is it something that got very animated on Twitter didn't it lots of people that work in the media and and do a lot of tweeting was saying we should all join forces.

We should all Boycott the brexit party, but you sort of wonder if it was the other way round and I love the Liberal Democrats decided to ban breitbart from one of their rallies for printing something about them that might have been true but was nonetheless you know for a political bias weather every other company would be so we need to join in and we need to save as outrageous as I think you know from our standpoint of to say well, you know but they're not a credible news source and Channel 4 is by

Was it depends on your viewpoint? Yeah as per usual these kind of reaction threads by journalist to the band became all had a meeting ground between the journalist and the broadcasters and then you know kind of members of the public who were saying Channel 4 is fake news BBC News fake news all mainstream news is biased and it's time that parties of the people like the brexit party took a stand against them so you know again it depends completely on your viewpoint large minority of people who would probably say that channel 4 on BBC and no different from breitbart in their bias, and that's just the reality of to contemporary 7s is Trumps old is Anais time trump Dead start this whole business about calling things that are news values and this is where is got it online you know if you spend much time on Facebook and Twitter you know which I do fortune over as part of my job.

You just get tired of seeing these comments and it's just it's not even that they disagree politically you know it's something something that I believe it's the it's the

Jargon, it's the constant Ramona snowflake in a list of knee jerk, it's like people have been unified pod people.

You know they lived in imbibed this kind of trumpian vocabulary and then I just regurgitating it online and that to me is the part that scares me more than your opinions which is the same thing as people of held for UNO forever ok? Let's talk about the end of the Jeremy Kyle Show which is something.

I really wanted to talk about in the week, but it happened but we didn't have any episode out of here goes the Jeremy Kyle Show is no more Jake that's right.

Yes, it's been taken off air by icv was there any other decision following the death of that guess that ITV could have made well.

I think I need to clear that icb probably should have acted quicker in removing the Jeremy Kyle Show probably before these reports even surfaced.

It's television from can a bygone era.

Got a television.

That's your kind of relied on misery and taken advantage of some of the most vulnerable people in our Society yeah.

It's a contrived format.

Fronted by a Sheltie of noxious presenter who doesn't really match with some of the valleys of authenticity that was seeing a bit more on TV these days, but what was it though? I'm in the ratings would have been pretty stable but you know we're not talking about a blockbuster show for ITV.

It does business for them.

It's part of their lineup, but if the biggest show in the daytime yeah, but yeah, it says if that's the case then itb should be commended for taking a swift action in in in axing it after these reports emerged maybe they could have reviewed it earlier and I looked at their practices on the show but following a reports they've they've clearly moved quickly Sintra some more jokes hasn't it is TV from a bygone era.

Rebecca cos everything you would just say about social media can a posh name the Debate and making everything very course in reductive? It's like Jake saying the opposite now the casing in broadcast television people wanting a bit gentle and kind of basically gentle and kind of the words.

I'm actually knows I'm listening to Jake just sending it's true that a program like that would not be commission now or certainly will be in a very different in style format but at the same time the reason it's been allowed to pass under the radar and I think there's a kind of Ira need to this is that the kind of people who you know the chattering classes of Twitter and not the kind of people who watch it.

You know it has had a very solid audience for large number of years and those people who are watching it in a large portion of an withdrawn from the same class as the people who on it.

Are you working class and because middle-class columnist don't watch it.

You know that I don't think that it was even on the radar the cast of The Jeremy Kyle Show were more reflective of the ITV heartland.

He's actually watching channel 3 at 10 in the morning on a weekday than this morning is which is yellow terribly middle-class basically Holly and Philip City Rollers with language Wind by that evening and the Jeremy Kyle Show there's an argument not the very positive way, but did portray working class people on telly.

I'm not sure I agree with that.

I think that this morning is actually heartland ITV it's warm.

It's cosy.

Yes, I'm brilliant.

Yeah, but doesn't reflect people that watching the way I look at it is this should be a lesson to all TV producers and there is no doubt that TV formats spotlight people with can of eccentric or unusual qualities but in a lot of cases those people want to be in other people's living rooms.

It's responsibility NOW TV producers to look at their casting process is to make sure that they are doing every everything they can to have a high level of duty of care for them for their participants and to make sure that their programming is beyond reproach Jonas it is fascinating how it's now just part of the mainstream discussion around these kind of things that the participants have mental health problems and that was an obvious truth for decades, but not universally acknowledged queen of the daytime.

Chat show.

I'm had her take on this scandal and her opinion was if we stop people dental health problems from appearing on TV there'd be no one on TV which you know is a bit of a kind of sounds like a bit of a glib take but actually if you if you don't look into it.

I mean it's true and if you think of all of the you know plenty of broadcasters have been very public about mental health and addiction problems.

You know and so I think that really does come down to duty of care.

I think we need to be focusing more on what happens after the show and not introducing any kind of barriers to people participating they based on kind of closest paternalistic concerns that working-class people can't make their own decisions right just the treatment of those guests on the show I not understand the focus on why there should or shouldn't be aftercare after someone has died, but actually just when they're on the show and the way they're being interviewed on the show was extraordinary about the Jeremy Kyle show me into that Jake is to take this morning again as as the unity shader comes on afterwards or after the rain as an example of a contrary approach, UK

The same sort of story don't you someone comes on his lost a child or his partner is cheating on them or who suffers from some rare affliction and it's a sympathetic interview on the couch when I get to put their point of view the challenge, but it's a sympathetic.

Cosy interview was on Jeremy Kyle he would literally shout at people have it's like the two sides of the coin of the unit British Public yet.

There are a lot of people who will happily watch this morning and listen to you.

You know I'm I'm raising money for disabled children to have a special treatment and nuclear smile at that very happily watch Jeremy Kyle tear into someone who's been branded your benefit scrounger and it's it's strange but I guess it's part of human nature that there are lots of people who you know we know we talked about Jeremy Kyle being kind of cruel in heart in his in his delivery and you know his comments to guess but there are plenty of people who changed into the show and think this is just common sense what he's saying is just the truth.

What did you make of the claims in the dispatches documentary Jake I should.

ITV have denied them the producer sometimes allowed guest drugs or alcohol before they were on the Jeremy Kyle Show I actually haven't watched dispatches documentary.

So if that is the case then clearly there's been a failure of process on on the on the part of the producers and if ITV was reviewing this which they clearly did as part of the process to tax a program.

I'm sure that the issues on this program will not just limited to one death and as someone here has been close to the TV business for a long time.

Does it ring tree I know I seriously denied it, but does it ring through your something that that could happen in in that much pain and a popular show like that the producers could be doing these kind of shenanigans behind the scenes so I genuinely surprised.

I'm sure there's a very dedicated and professional team of the Jeremy Kyle Show and I'm sure there's a lot of people are going to be out of work as a result of this so I I would I would find it surprising if that was the case now that doesn't mean that it doesn't go on and the producer.

Cindy support his presence inter behaving in ways that might be beneficial for our entertainment in a home but to to go to that kind of level would be surprising and shocking.

I think it is clear.

Just watching the show that a producer is standing there backstage.

Send you know what he's saying about you.

He's nagging you off.

Go and give it to him.

I mean that's quite clearly happening off camera because they're ranting at the camera full even got on the stage and then they're been sucked up the job of the producer is to whip up a frenzy of psychological torment for the people that have their judge.

Famously referred to the human bear baiting.

I think that now the show has been you know rockabye the Scandal and then subsequently taken off that has may be made some viewers of the show stopping reconsider if you know realise that it really was very past its sell-by date and is Dickinson's Real Deal going to descend into shouting at antiques.

Little bit streaming and Disney is assumed full operational control of streaming service Hulu what does that mean Jake the shifting of the Sands in the world of TV mega mergers and we've seen some extraordinary business done over the last just a few months even just in isolation the Disney 21st Century Fox deal.

I think this this to me is Disney take a big deep breath before it tries to blow down the Netflix House of Cards they do they decide to roll Hooley in with their own streaming service Disney plus which is launching later this year or feels like a little things airstream here because we don't really know what who live in America is yesterday.

I'm sure it is a bit a bit weird for them particularly given the ownership structure of Hulu which is really unusual in the fact that you had 30% ownership from conquer.

Fox Disney it was a bit like an upmarket YouView you keep it here hasn't been launched.

Everything problems around some of the rising their money away or allowing Disney dubai' babe it it seems strange that in the UK with trying to work on the solution which is everyone owning a bit of a thing as below really well.

I mean there's no doubt that.

There are some inherent issues of Brent pugs.

Yeah, it's 10 years too late, but that's not the full the broadcasters now.

I'm sure your listeners will be well aware of project kangaroo which was snuffed out by regulators before it even before it even hopped into life.

I think it's better late than never I think it's it's the it's a noble ambition and

To be quite honest as an advocate the industry is good to see broadcast as working together to come up with a solution and Rebecca Wheeler this week with Netflix and Amazon have made over a billion pounds from UK streaming customers in the last year that does still seem to be room for more players in this market.

Yeah, what makes it difficult I think for Netflix rivals now especially brickbox the problem.

Is is it from the perception of US Netflix arrived and it gave us all the stuff that we never you know how do I finger tips before and now all these companies claim back in Uno BBC iTV and then you across the pond you've got bad NBC CBS excetera or launching there in streaming platforms and basically trying to take it back off of Netflix Amazon Prime Healy and so it's kind of difficult to launch a service positively when it's predicated on the fact that you can no longer get all this stuff.

You're enjoying but if you come and take out another subscription separately you can see it all again.

You know so it just doesn't really have the Glitz and excitement of those original streaming.

And also predicated on the idea that young people no longer will find pirated versions of these things.

I was only 5 years ago that was the standard way for younger people to find this stuff and now has Netflix made it so easy older millennials watching Friends but we make a change back again giving it still thing and I'm sure we'll see some statistics about the final series of Game of Thrones the not-too-distant future of the advocate spot on because the fragmentation in the streaming landscape is is only getting worse and at some point that will have to change and console a round one or two services Netflix I think it's got two stronger than established position now.

I think they will they will be in it for The Long Haul but you might see some of these of Us Falling away which is kind of interesting given that Disney is trying to do this and they're putting their legs in now to baskets in the process the lyrics from Netflix

Big on it, but I think they ultimately I don't know maybe I'm I'm saying there will be consolidation, but if you look at if you just look at broadcasting.

There are lots of broadcasters who offer lots of different Nando's and it works may be the same all will be said of streaming service in the future alright walkabout more Media talk after this.

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That's according to a broadcast survey a 14b aam production houses to extension here is Jake that the broadcasters also they want more diverse cost more diverse cruise more diverse stories on telly, but then they're turning to production companies that aren't run by BME people to make those shows that right and contention is that a problem?

That's that that is a problem.

I think you're seeing two things go on ITV at the moment.

I think you're seeing genuine change on screen.

There is more diversity being injected into well established programs and new programming as well.

I'll give you one a good example which is Alex Scott who is absolutely fantastic football pundit, but she also happens to be black woman and she is doing a brilliant job on Match of the Day on Sky and I think it's really refreshing to see her as part of the football coverage in this country and I think that is mostly down to her own Talents of course but also its it reflects the the broader diversity initiatives are going on at the broadcasters, so that's what I'm saying is we're seeing that on screen the the hardest thing the second thing is is is building it from the Ground Up and that means working with production companies who have less experience.

Had potentially and who are recruiting Talent from more diverse backgrounds and giving them the confidence and the commissions to go out and tell their stories that's that's the more difficult step for the industry and that's what the industry is going to have to do over the coming years if it really is going to make him beanie for change are on these issues and you see Lenny Henry who's been a fantastic advocate this issue.

He edited and it should broadcast couple weeks ago.

He is still banging the drum for a ring fenced funds for game programming deeds not words you said he's not words that to me feels like the most credible option on the table for lighting a fire under these issues and making broadcasters commission programs is authentically from them produce.

I mean when you talk about ibiyeomie indeed what you really mean is the people that run it are from an ethnic minority background, but they might just be two of them sitting in my house at home or in an office insured it somewhere.

It's not you know any company run by anyone can go on to employ hundreds of people of colour to make a show about their experience does it matter who the bosses well, I think the argument in TV would be there if you have diverse commissioners and diverse senior producers that the kind of inklination will be to tell stories that are better aligned with their own life experiences that I guess what the point is being made here by some of the Bruce's inbroadcast as the risk is what I'm saying is you risk people saying that it becomes a kind of get a wise thing that if you want to make some of this be any content which everyone says they want more of then you yourself have to be early.

Otherwise you don't you know which means all the other production company that aren't Beyblade think I write with.

Our responsibility the thing is this the TV channels Movie Studios etc.

They want this content they recognise is an app.

There's an appetite for it, but you know they want it frame for a while audience that historically been the way that story is about non-white people have been told and so I think that there's a kind of this tunnel lingering Prejudice that you need white people to do kind of act as an intermediary and translate stories you know about people from different ethnic minorities into a white experience at the viewer will understand and that this distillers mistrust that are the AME LED company wouldn't do that sufficiently well is no evidence that I say it's still the case that im you know behind the scenes of TV and films is still just as exclusionary and you know barrier ridden is in front of the camera may be even more so because we often talk about how light working class people non-white people excluded a lot of voice acting opportunities, but there are still those parties.

You know you can still break into acting through open auditions or through.

Polish etc, where is behind the scenes are there isn't really that much of a you know there are really these programs and it has a lot of it is still based on knowing the right person.

They're having a coffee with the right person.

There is a reason for Matthew to other stuff in the States there, isn't there maybe because the audiences have shown that the hungry for it.

Look at Daniel k Lewis deal, but you've probably seen him an American on screening.

Get out that is massive success and yet his own production company 59% has got a first-look deal with paramount pictures but again it's another example of a time when you know British person from an ethnic minority background has had to go to the us224 Phil there opportunities talk about radio and I guess the headline of the radio ratings the Range as this court around was Chris Evans it would be negatively with me as a natural interest there.

Can he maintained his audience Radio 2 obviously not but he's done pretty well hasni Jake I think I'll be very happy with millionaires.

Navigate to compete with radio to you, and I'm sure you would be the first to admit that and I'm sure I'll be Liam probably would have been a milestone in their minds whether there will be happy with that in the long term weather that sustainable commercially remains to be seen but we don't know what they paid for him.

They don't know we don't know what it is.

Not going to make or break Chris Evans radio show on Virgin but what's interesting about Virgin is there not investing in the rest of the scheduling and anything like the same way.

They probably the biggest name they have on their after Chris Evans Eddy temple-morris who does radio presenter that in but not on this Galaxy A7 see people predicted when they got Chris that they get loads of you'll never get big name for drive time, but they didn't hold fire for a while on any of big signings, but I mean I think you know I think it was something around 800000 people they think he brought with him from Radio 2 which is very significant number and if some of them stay in tune and some of the other program.

I think that's gonna that's going to reap dividends for Virgin and on Radio 2 with seeing the Zoe Ball has basically managed to keep things as they were she's lost about 18000 listeners, so really just a drop in the ocean computing that isn't it? I mean well done her mother never on the radio to but then if if Chris Evans has taken 800000 listeners with him.

Where has Zoe Ball found those 800000 letters from Radio 1 listeners? I know it's difficult hasn't lost 100 no listen to say I don't know if I'll be a breathing issues.

I believe that radiate heat our own audience record a gammon averaging 2.25 million listeners a week.

Will that sustained after this.

Very tumultuous politics finally passes or when's that that exactly or are we just stuck with this so actually I'll be she's going to continue to grow talk radio in the UK especially fond of aggressive opinionated talk radio hasn't really taken off until now.

There's been more of a US phenomenon so wonder if maybe this is something that here to stay like listeners in the UK of traditionally preferred.

You know radio for style and gentler Debate and so maybe there is only appetites as this real.

You know blood pumping shouting down the microphone at one another again as well from this conservative leadership race because they're going to be broadcast in debates on the longer the BBC and sky they and they consistently have big names and they seem to be very well embedded in the Conservative Party and Boris Johnson's done things with them.

I had Esther McVey red terrier show the other day.

I'm sure they'll do very well out of all of this anytime subscribers are probably found the following the Tory leadership campaign as well and we have a story about the Times Digital subscription sterling rates come back of anybody software which Taylor's email newsletters to readers interest has been credited with cutting subscription cancellations at the x

A half during the trial period for the AI system, they called James do you remember Rebecca off the top of your head what that's an acronym for a really spicy journey automated messaging for higher engagement although that spells to my mind James anyway.

This is big news.

Isn't it? If you could is one of the big problems that any digital publisher has is maintaining the people that try out the free subscription and then frankly I'm very interested in more I forget to cancel eventually one day.

They will remember to cancel and they gone yeah absolutely and I'm surprised in a way that you know that this kind of technology hasn't been in a used in this exact way before and but actually I guess I find thought of it may be that be something we were doing it seems so intuitive that the main problem is when you've got a you know new site.

That's got full of great content.

How do you get?

People to see the content that there's going to impress them you know your best pieces of news writing may not appeal to one person you know but lifestyle things Mike and at the moment up to this points been kind of a crapshoot.

You know of the editorial team saying will be the best things we've got so put them in the newsletter and see what happens, but this is just revolutionary.

I think it's the kind of thing that you know I would personally you know that would get me signing up.

I don't want to be bombarded with you know the days 10 top news stories that I can see everywhere, but if I can have personalized content Taylor to my interest then although one had a bit nervous because it's the bubble again, isn't it? But you know it is really appealing and it would make me think twice probably about cancelling a subscription or newsletter subscription and other happy also love the way they call it a i which makes them far more sexy than what it actually is.

Tell us what to watch every day.

So why not allow them to tell us what to read which seems eminently sensible to me.

I will always the fear with these kind of things is you start to have a debate about robots replacing journalists and all of that but I think as long as I'm not on this job.

Is it is nobody's job to editorialize? What your readers think will be the biggest news stories of the day and present them with a neatly packaged newsletter.

I think that is a dad is a good journalistic service and I wouldn't want to see that kind of thing replace.

Yeah, we do similar newsletters about Business Insider where we we pull together some big story isn't yeah, they're popular products because people trust that we are going to hand pics of the most interesting things and help them do their jobs better as a result but you have got to pay we'll have you we do have a table for what we have we have a cry for help a wall for a limited like wing of our content the majority of it is.

Free to view which is intresting with the Times is there sort of doing Whatfield slightly counterintuitive in the way you think if you have a paywall then it's all about super serving your biggest fans.

Please be prepared to pay for your product.

So keep telling those people that love your product.

Come to an event give us more money.

Tell everyone have great.

We are but actually it seems like the time this research is saying all those people who love the times.

They Gonna read The Times anyway instead of the people you need to be super serving other people who have subscribed one's coming forgot about it and I likely to lapse keep pursuing them to say subscribed engage.

The least engage people making them feel so loved and paid attention to that they get it all mistake.

You know they're paying so expect to service and you feel like you're getting Morris service if he even have been generated by an algorithm.

If you feel like someone or something is putting together all this stuff specifically aimed at you.

I guess you feel like maybe I getting more value for money.

I guess at the other concern from the journalistic perspective.

Is you know it's not just the journal.

Deciding what's going to go in the newsletter, but deciding what they're going to write and so the time to try to get out head of this Chris isn't by saying that it's going to be information is going me data informed not data-led, but you know we've had stuff like that before plenty and you know they're concerned and it is if you're thinking.

Oh these things do these subjects do really well in the newsletter.

If only we had more stories like that then it's off turns into that leaning more on the editorial team of guys.

They would be helpful if you could write three more stories about this subject that people seem to be interested in because of it, but is a problem is if you start making more content that's going to appeal to the people who released engaged in what you're doing for everybody that the people who are most engage will become the least engaged horrible balancing act Jaguar about the technology, but there's a software company behind it twice but intend other companies to take their products on board.

Do you think they'll have customers do I

KNOWHOW customers, I'm sure I'm sure yet working with the times as a good client.

I'm sure others will be interested in seeing what they've done.

I don't think it's quite right for Business Insider giving up big broad mainstream audience, but it said it Anyway sound effects being dash there Rebecca ok time for our much vaunted Media quiz.

This week's inter podcast special I'm going to ask you three questions for the world of podcasting and whoever gets the most correct wins the game beginning with know the answer Rebecca you will say Rebecca and Jake you will say Jake not jahe.

Here is podcast story number one what has Spotify called it's new software for budding podcasters soundtrack soundtrack for storytellers is it for me, but I'll give you the point it is free software that apparently and I've seen these products be promised a lot in the past, but this is a big open product that you can go ahead and try it so I will it syncs with your audio recording so you can edit speech like a text document.

I read that sentence that must been 10 times.

I thought nice to him quite get it, but maybe this is why this is going to the software for me because it does seem to be an idiot proof as they can possibly finish what you just said and then said that you.

Don't have to open up an audio editing package.

You look at the words that you said I just cut the words in it awkward.

Yeah, ok.

Yeah, that sounds like a great tool for jealous potentially if you want if you're transcribe interviews and the software does it for you as well, if you want to turn something around quickly for a website.

You don't need a bit of flimflam in the middle you need a bit we said this the bit we said that and actually don't need it sound like a Polish audio products.

I mean that you can see that use their can't you fix an average NBA podcast in our say write his book has questionable to what text development could impact on the titles podcast is use Jake Jake Google is going to start indexing podcast title Direct Podcast episode titles.

Shopping Google searches could that change the way that we end up naming our shows people always people already owned it SEO friendly podcast I really want credit, but I can't remember their names.

It says tweeted this amazing sweet where they are like.

I hope you look forward to my new show what time is the Super Bowl on who are they married to and what is its net worth back.

I guess any place to put podcast having the whole philosophy podcast that used to get it in as many places as possible right.

You make the product for free you distribute as many places as possible.

It's going to be on Google impress play from Google because people search for something with words without write the word podcast has to be a good thing.

Yeah, definitely going to make us more visible.

I think in the past the ones that have been them have had that search visibility of ones that are played the transcripts this American Life always comes really high when you when you're searching for a subject that is covered in its upsides, but this is gonna definitely boost the visibility.

Listen to This podcast pastiche by comedy writer Matt Bushell and they me the real life podcast that inspired him.

He was within a within subject to this concealer so wrong Rebecca Ann serial and basically all other American this American Life kind of the new cited the daily and cereal as Dahlia drive in any setting out of it was playing the piano in the video.

That's why people think it's funny how you have to name is very well done and it's funny, but it's like in Santa's there any certain amount of ways you can present information in a Strictly audio format and it's not yeah.

Ok, some of these musical things have become a bit over used but it take

The parody to make people wake up and realise that maybe they fully enclosed taipans Audible UK overstay £5,000 audio drama production Grant with free access to Audible studios to develop one of their own Productions do you think that's possibly the next big growth area in podcast drama Radio 4 done it successfully, sent it to one then Rebecca haggis.

Yeah.

Yeah yeah congrats later if you like what we're up to help us keep doing it then consider taking out voluntary subscription.

We need even less than an audible audio drama production graduate and she's whatever you like to keep us going all year round you catch up with all previous episodes and get new ones as soon as they're released by subscribing for free on our website vmedia podcast.com I'm only man the producer of Rebecca Grasso Sherry the median.

What gas is 8 PPM production until next time bye bye?

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