Read this: Media Masters - Raju Narisetti

Media Masters with Paul Blanchard

welcome to media Masters a series of one-to-one interviews with people at the top of the media game namyo New York and Georgina rossetti professor at Columbia journalism school a pioneering digital publishing in 2060 created meant one of the world's first digital Newsroom which became India's second-largest Media business within a year this was followed by a number of leadership roles including the Washington Post the Wall Street Journal and News Corporation which he transformed into digital first operations most recently chief executive of Gizmodo he oversaw portfolio of journalism site with 120 million monthly unique readers including brands such as Jezebel the root and Lifehacker Brad you think you'll be joining me.

Thank you Paul good to be here so mate that's an incredible career journey that I was just kind of walks eating each other feel like a complete loser.

They're walking through have been some of the highlights sure it's either that or I can't keep a job for it's been 30 years younger than 30 plus.

Really doing act of journalism at mostly up the Wall Street Journal and in the last decade or so moving gradually and full-time towards the Business of journalism sitting at the intersection of journalism product technology in strategy and revenue it's been quite the ride that want to be a journalist.

Sorry I did not but I think I was done by DNA my father was editor of for local Language paper and my mother was a professor of English back in India skim over then.

It's not allowed so I did a Ba in economics.

So got imba work for dairy products companies selling cheese and butter for about a couple of years.

We've all done that and then realise that that's not what I will do the rest of my life and the only other thing at that time.

I thought I was relatively good at was riding and was interested in journalism and the more I thought about it the more it made sense.

So what was the first steps then? I actually road to.

Editor of a newspaper in India called the economic times which was the largest newspaper in India for business journalism, and he actually replied the saying that if you end up actually studying channels on my might consider hiring you.

I don't have higher people off the street, so I applied to a journalism school run by a large newspaper company in India because I want your program finished that indeed he had me at the economic times.

So this was back in 1989.

What came next I felt like I needed to study journalism more rigorously and a professor encourage me to apply to Bunch of schools in the US I did and I'm Indiana University and a prominent journalism school at that time and offered me on admission and damp I had to look up bloomington Indiana in the map.

I had no idea it wasn't there I ended up and how we therefore tells about the time that I did my masters online.

A lot of Indians friends who are not very well today.

I was in a rush to finish it and try to see if I can get the job the Big Break really was I Was One of 12 summer interns picked in 1990 by the Wall Street Journal while I was at Indiana and allowed me to really spend a really productive summer at the washing out in the Pittsburgh Bureau and was voted out of the time.

I'm mad wasn't there that time but it's think that you asked and I read your I mean I join the wattage on a few years later when they called me and said we've been tracking your work and would you like to come join and mad and I joined the same week at the Pittsburgh Bureau of the water cello and I know it's very wellies setting that same chair and it is a bit slow Bureau seems to have some kind of mythical at Launchpad status.

There was an amazing called Carol hymowitz who hired some really really if I say so myself go.

An incredible of Wall Street Journal materials young reporters and writers and lot of them have gone on to do very well at the channel memory is now the editor-in-chief of Mastermind sweet peas Macy nearby 4 days.

Well.

Do those photos of overseas study mean good stead.

How long will you actively a journalist for before you became one of the suits run your of the Wall Street Journal for long time you did very suits to work especially for business reporter simply because you met a lot of business exactly with figurative suits but I know email I was asked to go run.

What's his own Europe and this was our 2003.

I rent in on The Newsroom side of the managing editor and then became the editor and chief port very quickly realised that the word for joining euro faced and existential crisis.

It was the number 3 business newspaper an english-language publication silvercreek closely with the business side at that time to really transform it we took it from abroad.

Shooting to admire in Dover pub tabloid format if you will let me sizewise Combine to print and online Editions and offered like a single particle this was 2006 when it was very early to do that and we did it in Asia and in Europe it was brave.

It wasn't I would like to think that it extended the life of that publication by a piece of decade it no longer exists now.

Channel is pulled out of Europe and Asia in friend, but it was the early thinking around if windows are interested in consuming the same brand online and offline could we offer them something very similar and the iPad was relatively new the tablet Editions was starting to come out and I'm supposed my first exposure to kind of strategy and business and executing the Cancer strategy.

And then a year later I left to go to India to launch event for a big median Media house back Turner vs.

VI business newspaper and anybody else time I was still editor.

I was still mostly on the journalism side and then gradually the War of the washing poster.

Hired me to combine their print and online news from switch for 2 separate companies and even though I was managing editor and hard the bunch of sections of the washing up bowls under me most of my time was spent thinking about strategy and audience in technology and then came back to the Wall Street Journal the head of digital at that time and Rupert Murdoch's span out the old news corp into a separate company.

Am I then moved up the new Scott become head of strategy and that was the first fully business no Newsroom roll, and the

It was 2013 and that was at terminal 8 internet just moved on from use call Paddy not he had and it wasn't you see you at the Dow Jones as well as was a chance and the opportunity was really around.

How do you take a very successful 9 billion dollars in revenue Publishing books company and try to think of what can we do with it new Scarface very successful with subscriptions because of the Wall Street Journal it was very good at advertising because globally they were very good at that and we ended up over 2 year period adding a significant new revenue component which was around transactions most people don't realise it, but news court today is the world's largest digital real estate listings company and most of that happened in the 304 years.

I was there at news corp.

We did a lot of acquisitions are built a global business in India Australia the US

10 litre of Europe see you at news corp for 3 years we not I was on and 2013 to 2016 this was the first three years of the new news corp, what can next univision which is a large Spanish television company in the US was looking for somebody to come and help them build out an English language non television Digital Business there tried something of their own but then decided the best way to go about it was too proud possibly acquire a bunch of brands and I became the first CEO what was called the Gizmodo Media group which was a combination of websites from the old gawker Media - Cocker and then we added of back tentacles cold fusion and then be brought and rude and eventually rewriting the Onion group into the same portfolio sites and that must have been an incredible challenge then it was on media group of gone through an essential.

Prices the velocity interval I pushed into almost going out of business and so it was a bit of PTSD in that Newsroom because they're gone through a lot and then adding something like the route which has a long tradition of recovering african-american issues bringing infusion which was of startup with an universal and then bringing in onion, which was a completely different culture based out of Chicago med that you spent a lot of time trying to get off work with very different cultures who were trying to put them all on the same publishing platform meanwhile.

We were dealing with the normal headlines of running the digital media company background advertising was starting to kind of become a bit of a challenge and then univision was going through its own issues as a large can of Spanish TV company owned by some of the biggest private equity companies in the US and did your background as a journalist help you become a better leader on the management side of the business because of the last few Rosie discuss the way I like you said business.

Leadership roles rather than me you just happened to be running a journalism business in a sense of The Newsroom most of the newsroom attempts to think you're allowed at the same time.

I think there is a bit of an appreciation that he or she understands, what channel is I'm is about and what they go through and I think there was a look I came from use Court so I'm sure a lot of people at Gizmodo Media Group were like very worried about what that might mean but at the same time.

I think over the 18 months or so, I think this or that I built back a lot of the journalistic muscle and always can have spoke up for the channels on side of things and I think univision to its credit never interfered in the journalism of the Gizmodo Media Group so there's some advantages to coming from the journalism side and been on the business side of a Newsroom you quite understand what the core product is and how it operates in what are some of the guard rails you need to have how did the move to academia come calling and because I mean eat.

Cover the night budget fellowship at a time of unprecedented upheaval in journalism, Elsa been an exciting time to actually move into journalism within academia OC your role of the Gizmodo Media Group ended a lot earlier than I thought it would simply because I left the company univision board are changed its mind about what they want to do with anything other than Spanish core business and will add some opportunities to still stay there.

I felt like I was not the right person because I'm just built the business up so I volunteer to leave and at the same time Columbia journalism school was also looking for somebody come and help them through some of their business journalism and business of journalism our friends Columbia is ranked as the number one John Lydon school in the violin pretty much any rankings that you see but not necessarily widely known for its business journalism and business of journalism our friends we have several different programs.

And anchored by the Night Magic fellowships which is a mid-career year-long program for business journalists from around the world, so they looking for somebody to come in and cannot rethink some of these programs help with the positioning of the school itself and overtime teach both business journalism and business of journalism courses so my carrier has really been about working with very large or in some cases Legacy brands, whether it's the Wall Street Journal of dust and timeswitch is a big Media Group looking to do something new with mint whether it was the Washington Post having a real existential challenge and brothers news corp.

Really kind of thing what else can we do with our great brands so Columbia felt very similar, but I don't have very well-established brand are not in any crisis.

What kind of saying what can we do with a piece of it, but didn't really have an internal resource to help think through, Sheffield

More of an entrepreneur challenge rather than going into teaching bursary, so, how's it going out? What's top of your to-do list at the moment? So we're really a retard the Knight bagehot fellowship barber and kind of changed.

Its curriculum the way it thinks about what the future of business journalism should be I'm currently working on revamping.

What's called the sulzberger fellowships which bringing again executives and senior newsreaders for Arlo residency put a year-long program is usually the New York Times it involved with that the New York Times family actually Endowed it about 11 years ago and I think it's an opportunity now to kind of rethink that and make it much more contemporary.

I work some work closely with the colleague of mine.

Who is running the ma in business journalism program and we're going to have a couple of other programmes this year.

I'm just so it's been interesting in helping think through.

How can kind of

You are universities setting help kind of bored students as well as practitioners to really kind of embrace were some of the changes are in business journalism that brings me onto my next question which is amended.

The fellowship is known throughout the world is the most rigorous business journalism fellowship in the world at what skills are you giving aspiring journalists at so that they can thrive in that environment it is rigorous in the sense that the fellows are expected to take 36 credits and not just take them but pass and so it's a full year or a full working order at Columbia Northumberland school.

Lot of the course of the middle school where you're rocking with the MBA course in the law school and elsewhere 203 things are different this year from previous programs one is there significant modules in kind of both not just business journalism, but the Business of journalism.

Lot of the speakers that coming and talked about what's happening in terms of media companies that I can.

give me some examples there's been a lot more emphasis on how do media companies make money because I think that is starting to have an impact on what kind of journalism you practice and then there's a deepening of the application of formal strategic accounting of forensic accounting or strategy back into journalism and trying to get up say if you're taking those courses, how would you look at lazio Netflix balance sheet and P&L very differently and ups of journalism, so those are the kind of things we doing I think there's a bit more emphasis on data journalism pictures part of colombia's increasing strength these days and then and exposure to some of the smartest people in the business of journalism, which is part of the program may be bringing speakers every Tuesday it's Off the Record so the conversation so pretty intermittent pretty kind of intense with the fellow, so it's such a good balance between Claire

First and people who know what they're doing one day.

I hope to be successful enough that you invite me to speak to one of these workers weekly Suarez I think you have a interesting business start-up business model in terms of covering Media so you'll be a good speaker actually, I will let me be the first to invite myself along.

Thank you very much.

What is a typical week for you than me because we eat when you introduce stayed there a few minutes away you talked about later the balance of responsibilities that you've got it is more of an entrepreneurial challenge.

You say not necessarily academic at the moment in terms of teaching.

Yeah, I'm not I'm not eating a school-wide Corsa most of my teaching if you roll is confined to the seminars with the fellows and a large part has been kind of thinking through.

What would the South Park programme look like when it re launches in January of 2020 and working with the other couple of other programs where we are going to bring for example.

This is not announced yet, but it soon will be.

You going to bring in a bunch of journalists from Asian newsrooms to again spend a week every quarter with the jungle in school while working on a problem inside their news from so those are the kind of programs and how do you build curriculum and how do you then can have tried to balance between what kind of classes that you would want to have in their here and then what kind of like whether it's design thinking or without skin of dealing with for example one of the courses will be how do you manage the P&L politics right? It's wanting to teach them how to build a P&L but the skills they need to sort some manoeuvre inside out on your organisation.

So those are the kind of skills we gonna start importing if you well so most of the focus this past year has been too kind of the curriculum around dad and then rolling it out and what is students like is he coming to the course? I'm in the must be incredibly ambitious and Incredibly able given that it is the most prestigious fellowship in journalism as easy as you said.

Sport journalism is under attack as never before formal signs you got a president be crying fake news trying to alienate people from journalist themselves or others far fewer people it in newsrooms these days.

It must be incredibly more competitive you better than Columbia journalism school is the only journalism school in all of the ivy leagues by nature.

I think it's very competitive to get in the fellowship is even more so simply because in addition to giving you a tuition waiver at Columbia 4 year.

We give us $60,000 can a fellowship as well to do this also in that sense.

It's very competitive most of the focus of people looking at Media in the past year or two as been around obviously fake news and some of the challenges to practicing jumpers and but if you look at all the stories whether it's brexit whether it's the big trade disputes between for example of the US and China on the Union election is a large part.

About creation of jobs and the lack of that are some of the stories are the Washington big parts of the motor investigation the indictments of all been around Texas and around really financial shenanigans, Southwark alcapone isn't it and in an interesting way, we give out an award every year do Knight bagehot.

The lung and last year Jeff Horowitz of the associated Press won the prize for really Breaking All of the of the stories that led to some of the people around trump going to prison and these are all significant business stories and if you look at a lot of journalists have been killed unfortunately around the world, but if you look at a large number of them that usually killed because there is a writing about mafia or tax evasion or like serious business issues, and I think so business journalism has been under a lot of.

Stress as well in the past year so it's great to have a program behaviour teaching better skills in Deeping the skills of business analyst from around the world economic journalism is as vulnerable to fake news as General user political reporting it has been instances of flight people creating an entire fake press release it and sending it out and people can have on a merger and acquisition and that leads to quick movements in the stock market, but if you think of a business has been profoundly affected by fake behaviour riding the whole tyrannos instance where this company that raised a lot of money around can a blood test Elizabeth Holmes is a phenomenon at the moment.

I mean to be ordinary.

I think businesses that always tired fake news in the centre of the beam profile criminal activities without Sandra on this tyrannos, and I think there's a speedy has done a pretty good job of like servicing.

It's only now that the term fake news and discount things that actually morphing into non business stories.

We had Matt Murray sitting in that st.

Joes you as we mentioned a while ago and he was saying that one of the things that he's really proud of as a as a business journalist, is is holding business to account there not there babe.

Just to let you know I help entrepreneurs make more money by giving them inside the better hold them to account as well and expose wrongdoing absolutely and if you don't think about if you stay back and think about all of these shoes are people or raising with Facebook items of privacy and data disk of deep connections to the business model of Facebook which is advertising and keeping people on the side and that's why I think some of the problems are coming up so it's always good to kind of remember that.

A lot of the reason why it is bad actors are certain behaviours.

It's almost always moved to business models and I think it's important for business journalism to kind of relieved.

We should celebrate capitalism.

We should celebrate business because I think there's nothing fundamentally wrong about that at the same time.

I think it's important for the Wall Street Journal of a New York Times to read your highlight issues even the me too movement in media.

Have you just touched a lot of very senior exacts is a business story because it impacts of CBS has to change its CEO because of it.

It has ripple effect in the business of CBS same thing in Hollywood so I didn't business journalism has done a pretty good job of covering these contemporary issues most people don't necessarily think of them as business for all the stories have had business impact career in journalism and news management news leadership Media leadership and in a moving into academia now.

You're kind of uniquely placed to answer this.

In which is your how optimistic are you generally about that journalism and about the business of journalism? I'm off domestic war journalism for the simple reason that only this past November half of the world has gone onto the internet that means have to population of dislike about 3 billion more people who are they come onto the internet on a regular basis or the next hopefully 510 years so the demand for consuming what we produce in the news business is never hire in fact since the time the good but press was invented at every day.

There's more more people consuming news because we can so I think the the what we are producing is not the issue.

How do we monetize it and how to beat continue to sustain? What we doing? I think he means a big challenge even there.

I have hope a lot of people get the kind of fixated on.

Beano payroll send our advertising but I think that smart media companies are figuring out that there are 1015 ways of making money and those who can collect a bunch of revenue streams.

I think will continue to do well even if you just the revenue streams is Challenge shorehouse competition at Gizmodo Media Group without having subscriptions or membership.

We had five or six ways of making money and as a result we were very successful in growing the business, which was what it was significantly depend on advertising outside strong components like he rents being a very strong e-commerce business, so collected believe you would actually able to grow the business in double digits.

We had Lydia polgreen sitting there recently she's editor-in-chief of huffpost and she was saying that sound the type of personal will subscribe to the New York Times his grave but they're only a certain segment of society and thereby home not having a paywall.

Been financed by advertising and buy commercial partnerships widens her leadership, so that our advertisers can advertise you know their products and services to a more general butt mass market if you will rather than you know the news readers have said certain specific title.

Just as an aside both liberal and radical spoke to the night project also shows you the kind of quality asteatosis look at the people that have stuff to have spoken that your weekly thing and then I'll just get them on the podcast battery grip look I think it's Lydia has to say that simply because having it cost is free and that's kind of the current business model and they've had their challenges because it's not a parent company Verizon has had to take a big light off and lot of cost-cutting so there is an argument to be made that it is important for certain sites to be free because they want to reach a larger audience but at the end of the day these are all businesses and which other you want to do if you still have to raise enough revenue to cover the car.

Subduing journalism good journalism has to be paid for and my senses that having poor sorry.

I will have a large audience therefore significant video audience and I continue to do well, but over time they also have to figure out.

What are the ways we can make money it doesn't have to be a paywall it could be the Guardian approach of saying they doing good journalism, please support us or it could be saying that im some farjeon resemblances to have two amazing storytelling and maybe we go to Netflix and say that he can we create a serious one of the things we did very successfully at the Fusion Media Group and Gizmodo Media Group at the university was the creator of a studio that then went and sold for example el chapo the series about Van Gogh's Manos the hands of the Mexican drug lord that came out of univision journalism, so they went unsold a multimillion-dollar series 3 Netflix so I think they're of those opportunities.

There are opportunities around doing events at in having posters.

Somebody could create some sponsorships.

Maybe when create tickets so that lots of ways for huffington.

Post to try to make them in you rather than just be dependent on advertising and I think that's what radios are front door in terms of saying they may not necessarily have a paywall for the success of huffington, Post and for its growth and reinvestments.

They do have to figure out how to make money is apples moving to new something to be welcoming because they just rolled out the Wall Street Journal decided to be part of it that the New York Times and the Washington Post decided not to be part of I think anything that brings more consumers to news.

I think it's a good thing the lots of interesting questions around they're not enough detail zip the lots of interesting questions and the Apple model because apple keeps have the revenue and does not share a lot of data about your audience, but they're very interesting challenges for media companies wanting to grow royalty and increased data.

Piano man getting up there on inspected as if they're getting better not been told the demographics in the Matrix and how can they how can they better tailor their content around the people have sure you're some companies feel like the risk of being in there is too high and others feel like like the la Times is in there and I think for them.

It's a different equation on one hand you could say that look apple is not in the advertising business unlike Facebook or Amazon or Google so clearly did not want to compete for the ad dollars directly to they are among the most privacy conscious platforms out there absolute protector not good custodians of individual privacy all those reasons are encouraging to want to be part of that and the Apple iOS iPhone ecosystem.

Is your top 30% of your audience paying audience night, so I think there is there is some reasoning.

For the Wall Street Journal la times of the others to be there but it's the rescue taking because you could potentially end up where you ended up with the Facebook many of these brands are jumping feet first when Facebook came along and dangled all sorts of similar incentives to the credit of New Scotland water journal de Navidad until proven right so this time around it's the opposite of the New York Times saying B12 this and it's the wattage on saying we will do it.

So this will play out in the next couple of years we spoke about the kind of business challenges of making Jenner's and paying washers Facebook do you think that journalism itself is under threat as never before week rise of fake news from the president.

Have you covering you know despots and warzones like Siri and so on that the old rules that seem to be respected about journalist not being kidnapped and held for Ransom and shot and murdered in the case of Marie Colvin for example.

It goes really very dangerous.

They seem to be out.

Out the window used to be that other types of journalism came from dictators and Tim Park countries and Banana Republic store places where they did not really have strong press freedoms.

It is unfortunate that under my current president President Trump that kind of tattoos resprayed now including to the US and run heads of government kind of cast News France as heroes and Villains as he tends to do it has significant ripple effects more dangerous, actually is that the US state department used to be kind of one of the first institutions that would speak up for press freedom around the world if somebody was arrested US state department do the front of the first ones to put out a press release and cannot say that we are noticing this.

This is not acceptable that is really going to disappeared and the US has a lot of like non-governmental non-profit groups that used to go out.

And the world and help spread the cause of press freedom saying that look best practices from the US are wants unity embrace.

I used to be on the board of the international center for journalists does a large part of first but now when you try to do that, it is easy for these countries to say wait your own president thinks that you're journalism is fake.

So why should we listen to you? I think folks like on Saturday in the Philippines there one in Turkey increasingly or Barn in Hungary and Poland and Indonesia and emboldened by the fact that are the US president doesn't seem to care and green know he's giving power to these people to behave with more impunity because the US which was you could rely on to kind of relieved at these questions is no longer in a position to do it.

No longer a beacon of light absolutely and dimming light that in some ways does that mean?

Some a lot of people think because of the strength of the US Republican the political system president will last for 80 years and things will be OK after that but some of these like the long-term impact of your statements and your behaviour doesn't last too much longer time with a President Trump is in the office or not and I think that's the real danger to kind of casting American journalism select organisations as fake news or failing news and cannot constantly undermining them in a sense the eat you saying that Donald Trump is poisoning the well for a long time to come well after he will not be present of this country and I think that's the real danger and it's it's a very difficult one to kind of battle arm when you do have the right.

I was using its bully pulpit kind of make these assertions.

I mean I don't support from by driving.

He's a liar and a cheat and her and a horrible bully, but do you think there's

Sense of that people make the assessment of him and then realise that ultimately the most of what he says it is in itself ironically fake news and and his bluster and his nonsense.

I do not take the president seriously because he's the president it it is on but I suppose that's a summary of the argument ride and have some reason why media companies whether you like it or not.

Need to cover what he says and what he says is mostly on through Tweets I think the notion of like providing context to not become instant agriforce.

I think that's starting to stick where people are not automatically courting in without giving the context of saying this this is not based on facts most us newsrooms still are very shy of calling it a lie, but I tell you start to give facts around a tank and frame it in the way that people understand that and that's an improvement from the first year of how they cover them the baby's a very good at.

Is now where does a President Trump falsely claim do that XYZ adjust it it right there's more stuff of Truth side which side which is that your first Seder what's what's fat than cannabis? I want somebody like trump asserted and then the Gambian for supper sing this is not a fat.

So I think that's happening at the same time.

He is very successfully.

I think convinced of this country that anything that comes out of a CNN or the Washington Post or the New York Times is inherently biased in Hanley Falls I think that's real danger and when you see that translated into opinion polls out of the country has not wavered in his support for him.

No matter what the what you said no matter what kind of food that has can I put out there and that's the real danger that all said and done a third to 40% of Americans with just stop believing.

Some of these brands irrespective of whether they agree or not which is a different issue than whether they have reporting tax or not.

That's incredibly depressing analysis really is it not it's it is and I think the good news is there is an election coming in 2020 and the Democrats or where else has a chance to kind of make their case and one hopes that they can make a compelling case and arlette the voters decide between president and being a present like President Trump doesn't seem to have any regard for accuracy and facts give someone power incumbents to have an advantage in this so it remains to be seen if he will continue to you.

No talk is going to a second term uniquely placed with mention and your upbringing to talk about India musical.ly literate population.

Do you think it's going to be, a global source of innovation in media?

Indian Media on holiday recently have been followers and not even fast followers.

I think they've taken the time because there was this belief that print I will continue to have a much longer shelf life in India to do very well, so they don't need to really embrace digital as much as the best dead, but that's or not to be a bit of a challenge.

I think the Indian youth or exhibiting the same behaviours that Ffestiniog which is liking didn't read newspapers and they would rather get everything on their phone so Indian media companies is scrambling in some ways to clean of catch up.

There has been some innovation Around video and that are mobile because in the event from no phones to mobile phones.

There was not lying lines in between so there's been I think it is the biggest market for YouTube and Facebook and LinkedIn and you name it.

It's a very young country the average Ages writing 28 years stripes.

Is a long way to go in terms of like demand for these kind of products used in some small innovation their company's.

There's a company called that can which does a single Storey everyday on business and it's a subscription site that hard wall and they have like 10000 subscribers trying to make some impact and do really good journalism.

There is a Hindi publication called Rajasthan patrika very family-owned very old but I really thinking of new ways to think about Solutions journalism pictures just about starting to get up get traction here, but a lot of the innovation India is coming around on video and non Media on video actually 21st century Rupert Murdoch's company has a brand called Star pictures of Apple hotstar which at one point at about 100 million downloads in the past couple of years largely based on cricket and but they're giving a run for the money.

For the Netflix on Amazon primes of the world and really holding their ground very smart local innovation and amazing see your name to the Shankill Road now all part of Disney so that said something to watch for the companies like tomorrow which is a food delivery company that has a membership model called the motto prime creating a lot of offline events and again peeing a lot of cheeky engagement to the app.

So you sing suddenly Norway hola beaches that cab company has completed very well with the uber so some of these companies are holding the wrong on media the mainstream Media I think before you get to innovation that lot of concerns around quality around ethics lack of standards.

There's a huge pay for play journalism in India there's a lot of issues that are on paper there's self-governance, but there's actually no Governance of Media so the trusted Media is among the lowest of any profession stand.

India so these are all problems that could I eat away at the core of the business model and could have significant problem, so what time so we can just look at the scale of a country is little seats demographics as the opportunity.

We have to also look at like to know the fundamentals in a good place and currently there are not you mentioned.

Just an about that you know whole generation of people have never even taken a newspaper have gone straight to their mobile phones.

Do you see that happening increasingly so here in the west that ultimately it's you know 10-15 years Ronaldo will barely be any print based journalism.

What do you see that there? Will you be able to walk into a can of Hudson's on in an app on ill still be lots of magazines and you will be able to take up a physical copy of the journal in the ft.

Young people's pipeline into friend has been empty for more than a decade now most big brands here.

Don't talk about it, but the average age of the print reader print subscribers now well in the 50s and 60s.

Thornaby in the Saturday's so 20 years and now there will be dead frankly as far as like demographer school absolutely and I think that's going to be a real challenge.

That's why you was trying to see people acknowledge that print may not be alone for a long time at the same time.

I believe the two of us People Like Us was sitting 50 years ago television of just come on and we were in the radio business and somebody like you are somebody like me now that people can actually see people talking.

Why would they listen to just gone off radio right radio is now sure is it smaller in terms of its advertising based absolutely what is a significant other and as impactful in some ways.

I would definitely think so absolutely so I have a similar feeling about friend.

I think it's gonna be from an advertising part of us would be very small but from an influence point of you will not be as influential perhaps as it has been in the last couple of decades, but will it be around and will there be people willing to pay?

$10 for every day of the New York Times maybe $20 for the Sunday paper, I think they will be there.

It'll be a smaller audience will be ready on Sat you still want to reach because of who they are because of their wealth of your an appetizer probably not the Washington Post print circulation is probably in the 400000 now.

I used to be a Millionaire think 20 years ago and we're probably go down to 200 hours, but don't want 2000 in Washington DC you get it in friend will be older still be well.

There has to be influential and I think if you manage your course well, you can support out of fairly decent print product, so I'm all those people who take printable really around for a long time and just not we think it is right now.

I used to just read to a 3 papers so the 20 years ago now and I'll take the journal the ft the times of London USA today, but I read a lot of digital first and did.

Only at Rembrandt Avenue mentioned the onions for example having a huge fan of that for many many years now, but never never obviously bought anything that be better without improve because it's a digital operation looks like about the Onion actually did used to be a newspaper that it became all digital and if I had continued NFU novation of continued Gizmodo Media Group this year.

We would have launched an onion membership plan which was actually pubs included art quarterly print publication wow.

I would pay for that.

I love the only one that's exactly my point which is to think of friend as how can print Shoreham additional membership as it can we create our kind of an exclusivity by saying this quarterly print onion publication will only be available if you remember.

I think a lot of ways to think about the smart companies.

There's a company called skift.

Rahat Ali has built it's about the business of travel and he publishes really.

Goodprint periodicals on a regular basis as part of his offering smart people are realising that print can actually become a good way to reinforce the show so I think that's the way I think about print and not necessarily think of it as like the Cannibal leading platform for a media company.

I mean I'm chasing payment fortune, but if I wasn't then my ideal job would be to write for the Onion because I loved reading it and I would I am suppose.

I probably not funny enough to write for it, but that will be my ideal job to sit there and write some of those articles must be great atmosphere is interesting you say that because one of the membership proposition do love heart was to offer a slack channel and say once a month you think you can be annoying Rida come and show us what you can do in this life channel and some of the Onion writers will actually critical works.

Yeah, but the problem with that.

Is is that then at the moment I can convince myself that I might be good enough, but when that when I would know without that wouldn't be good enough.

You would have fun being a member of the community to cut.

Prom dresses that are absolutely incredibly hectic career, what would you want your Legacy to be I think I'd like to think of myself as somebody who has been able to see around corners and I just see but do something about it and I think that will be a good thing to be remembered not rhyme about 2 or anything but I think that's funimals quality that media companies need to have it is too kind of anticipate change not just anticipated Britain actually do something about it, so you're not caught by surprise.

What's next for you deliberately vague open question so I'm WhatsApp professor of professional practice at Columbia which means that I actually work with the media companies in the industry and so that's a good fun way to make sure that I'm staying contemporary and also helping people think through some issues magics been incredibly interesting conversation.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you for all.

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