Read this: Taking On Big Tech, Disney Closes In On Fox, Global Cuts

Hello and welcome to the media podcast by Molly men on today's show big interests take on big tech how an unlikely Alliance is for me to try and change the way Google Facebook is dominate the media market was on the programme new research showing the divide between podcast audiences in the US and UK Disney edging closer to completing its deal for fox global and Bower announcing big changes to commercial radio with a flurry of press releases and in the media quiz it's the return of our favourite game famous last words.

It's all to come in today's Media podcast and John yesterday is the Guardians Media editor Jim Waterson hello Jim hello welcome back to the show it's been a year now since we met at the Guardian changing Media summit and you just got the job, then you ambushed me and had the impression that I would know anything about media at that point and a year later.

You've returned to see if I've learnt anything like that.

The terrifier going to put it better myself.

What's the answer to what have you learnt a few things? I really like it and I'm very happy to be there and we seem to be doing some stuff that I'm very proud of so I take there's a win and we have the long-awaited announcement of our accounts coming up.

We are currently on track to break-even which will be a nice thing for the Guardian to have pets it seriously significant thing actually it will be the Touchwood and we'll see what the final accounts say when they come out but that so we'll know within a month or so and the most recent update was are on track and most of that course thanks to reader contributions which leads me nicely onto Caroline Crampton not because she's begging for money, but because she writes mostly about podcasting which relies on this the contributions and Caroline Crampton this is your me.

Your podcast debut you write for the podcast industry newsletter hotpot which if you're not a subscriber, you really should be if you interest in the business world of podcasting but you just had a new one as well for the browser.

Tell us about that.

That's a very long running the best articles on the internet everyday five-a-day and honestly stuff that you would never ever find anywhere else and now about to start doing that for podcasting as well called the listener.

Ok Weekly or Daily Mail email to every day every weekday.

I don't know when we can you will get 3 podcasts sent to you with little bloods written by me explaining why you should listen to them and this is the result of my side of I don't want to think about how many hours are podcasts.

I listen to week, but I wasn't hours of listening.

I felt about the best off the story on this because it strikes me slightly underreported thing this boom in paywalls newsletters or email subscription because it.

Spell still going.

It's really old technology now.

I keep seeing more and more of them proper and people really responding well for them out.

I'll be honest as a long list of things.

I need to cover which are this is somewhere somewhere in the middle of the stories that I swore I was going to do last week and haven't quite got around to yet.

I'm really intrigued by anything that anyone can get people to pay for in terms of journalism at the moment that mean if there's any hope at all.

I mean, how do you have a source of target of how many people you need to to make it work well said we don't we just starting in going for it cos we're lucky in the position that the browsers existed for a decade and has over 10000 people paying for it.

So we know it's not like a massive the risky thing to you know it's been out this new thing also we have been doing as part of the browser or offering a weekly podcast newsletter and people have it like the open late on it is really really good so we feel like the conditions are right to try it it strikes me as well though.

It's all slightly plays into this trend of kind of digital detox singer in.

Profuse next third you might get your email now feels like slow Media doesn't it? If you can read at leisure.

It's an old fashioned thing weirdly now.

Where is like Twitter you know that's a place where everything is very fast and links I commented on quickly an email.

You can maybe read on your computer your own pays when I first got involved with the browser.

I thought it was just it's for links.

You know people subscribe to it, because they want to click on me the articles and clearly for a minority people that is what they want but actually a vast number of people open and read the emails but never clicked a link so they just like as you say as a kind of a digester like to know what's out there.

They like to keep up but they don't necessarily actually want to read all of the interesting esoteric things were recommended for them there anybody that whenever they land my inbox is sightright stop this I'm going to do it one in the morning the politico morning email PlayBook by Jack Blanchard which has was really great at first because you said it hasn't worked out.

Reports as a reading it's you can claim to be across all the stories of the dead now.

I know this is about it, but it's me how are you by the way, I think I think there's going has think last time.

I took some sort of Twenty 30000 people who are getting it, but within politics Media Westminster it's the go to thing now to get an idea of what's coming up in the day ahead and they built that from scratch in about 2 years now and it's now such a part of routine at lan on the dose at 7 a.m.

So it's not arriving too late.

So you basically can go in and do your own job off the back of it.

Had it really does the really does set the agenda and an equally the other end on Thursday afternoon the moment popbitch arrives.

I'll still sit down and go right cup of tea time.

Let's see what they've got this.

Week's it turns out you've got information.

You got a little bit of insight that no one else has then and you get used to it always being there then you will open it.

Is it worth it for traditional media companies to be investing in the motor you think Caroline because I'm Not About The Spectator emails.

Which I read I am not a natural spectator reader XI subscribe to The Spectator but I happen to like reading frozen Elsa than this Belle Isle of Man im3 internet form.

Does that really help them? I think it does because is it you've just said it though.

You don't in date of The Spectator in any other form, but you do engage with The Spectator even if it doesn't feel quite like you do and I think it works in the same way as you know podcast sore Media Appearances of always work for established publications in that sense cos if you like a particular personality you're not into the whole product.

I give you an avenue to that one person and that still valuable.

Let's look at some of the big media news of the week and there's been a few stories doubling up recently looking at the power of big tech ostensibly Google Facebook and apple and what should be done about them us senator and democratic presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren kick things off arguing for a breakup of the big platforms to boost competition and then Rupert Murdoch's news corp weighed in with a written statement to an Australian committee looking into Googles practices in the ad market.

The most recently Spotify lodged a complaint against apple and the way they charge subscription apps like Spotify gym.

Do you think the tide is turning against these digital giants and what does that mean for the media sector while the second part is a lot more complicated the first part is the tide turning yes, we're at the sort of something must be done stage won't somebody think of the kids everyone from left and right seems to be coming around this idea that these companies are too powerful for various reasons if you're on the right.

It's culturally the fact that they are allowing a material to be unfiltered and flying around the world if you're on the left.

It's that there in various.

Lee undermining democracy will being used by shadowy groups to get there and you can Project almost anything on to them because all human life is there and therefore all of human life spoil balls are at present on their platforms when you got Elizabeth Warren talking about we need to break them up you had George Osborne

His lecture last week is big Hugh cudlipp lecture talking about the fact that he loved to have been European Competition Commission own have the chance to you now.

Have a go at these companies Jeremy Corbyn also talking about look what can we do to allow your data to be moved around more freely to the source of consensus that they're too big the problem is no one is quite sure how to pull them apart now and certainly in terms of what that means the journalism in is a very sad fromatob it all of the things that being said recently by Mark Zuckerberg about moving to a more private messaging based version of Facebook sound pretty bad for anything.

That's about distributing links to public news sites as one of the answers for media companies Caroline might just be controlling more of our consumers data.

I mean to look at the BBC for example that sort of what BBC sounds is about isn't it partly rather than having stuff on everyone else is platforms.

Let's only app lets own the data.

There's power in that and you don't have to be on Facebook to get people in.

Yeah, they've been quite explicit about that that they want to study their user or listener behaviour and the only way they can do that is inside their own proprietary up because the party podcast apps are never going to share that information and it's kind of I think still an interesting question that I don't yet know the answer to his whether users want that they might buy the whole it helps that makes the service better it out something better or they might think why should I give you part of myself? Just so you can sense leaves only more stuff and the problems people like the services.

They ultimately this disconnect between the chattering classes.

They always make terrible what Facebook have been up to and people then going on Facebook to see what they're cousin's birthday party.

Look like I mean they're doing it and people still go to Google to get their information and even if you break the company up, so that one part is Google news on one part is Google ads.

It's still the same brand it's difficult for Challenger brands.

Come along as in all the regulations coming down the tracks is probably going to make it only harder to break them up because as soon as you start saying well if you want to.

The Social Network you gonna need at least 30000 people looking at every distressing image and deciding whether or not it's awful, then the only companies that are going to be able to afford to do that over Facebook's and Google so you either have you know this is news when it was a complete free for all on Facebook and anyone who could work out how to make a piece go viral if you knew the right words button headline then loads of new sites when it was BuzzFeed ordered the right words going to headline and you'll never guess what they are right have to game.

It's only there's a crazy five-year period from 2013 to 18 anyone can start a new News website and get a pretty big audience but as soon as you start to make things hard as soon as he starts put quality controls on becomes harder and it's the same with the Tech come.

He's as soon as you impose regulation on them, but no one else will be able to compete so weirdly.

I think I think that the current big tech Giants could benefit from the wave of regulation is coming as long as they avoid being broken up.

And what about me as market Philip Hammond Chancellor called for the Competition Commission to look into the digital ad market currently worth 13 billion pounds Google Facebook sharing most of that, what do you see actually playing out there as this momentum continues that is a big unknown because it's quite hard to stop people choosing to spend their money with one of the most efficient ways of placing out every time someone tries to do it better fundamentally was something like advertising you.

Just going to come back to are we selling more of this stuff by using this method or I'll be selling more of our stuff by using that method and for as long as Google and Facebook remain incredibly effective ways of getting people to buy stuff.

It's quite hard to stay Force people to spend their ad dollars or pounds elsewhere, so I don't really know I am I'm struggling to think how you do this other than maybe regulating Facebook and Google to force them to make it easier to run other services through their.

Same back-end or or spend your money across multiple sites from within Facebook and Google but ultimately and fortune them only got the bed of products only way I can see it working is that you have to force Google to share Smurfette secret algorithm source that makes it work and essentially I don't know what you'd even call it but like state create off that competitors for that, but that seems are completely bizarre thing to do but yeah, I don't understand how you admission of failure.

Isn't it? He can't compete with you.

So can you just be nice and chat a bit more money in our Direction or the other option is and this is kind of what you become.

He thought we've been doing on there.

Anyway is in a tax them heavily and put that money towards something that you give it all to the regulatory service or you know yourself creative side of feedback loop in the same way that big corporations of all kinds of always you know donated lots of a worthy charity will be quite nice.

Let's talk about podcasting sure you've got Caroline in the room so we might as well and big news.

This week because Addison of just published their annual look at the podcast industry.

This is the US survey isn't it kind of the reason I say good news is because I've been in this podcast again for a while and these are the stats everyone always quotes ederson stats which say whatever it is an annexe of people have listen to a podcast of the last night, then a sick of people benefit of people.

What's the latest latest is that out I think we're it 60 70% of Americans now.

I've heard of the term podcasting and raffia quarter have listened to one in the last month and 32% right the actor with the kind of it a point where though.

There's a great figures that if you make a podcast in America or you make one that is listen to buy American you can take that forget your advertisers and say you know you can get we're no longer in these small hobbyist industry in a now.

This is this is like putting an ad on the radio or putting an ad newspaper we reach a huge number of people except of course.

You only really me to use other people if the podcast is networks you know you're selling an ad or a sponsorship whatever the thing is you're selling across a huge variety of podcast if you're selling one.

It might be least that might be worth more money, but if it's a show about golf you know and you're advertising Pepsi that's not enough is it you want Pepsi to go across golf and football and rugby and cricket.

Yes, it is always been the thing people said about podcast that they are tremendously good at engagement whether that's fine engagement with editorial content or engagement with advertising content, but it works best where you have that perfect match up of soda form and function almost and that's also why in podcasting is common and even desirable to have the Host themselves part be part of the advert in the you've all heard you know certain put artist singing about grass base that's because those listeners like hearing that and they're more likely to do it if they hear it from that voice rather than use of generic voice-over that you might hear in a set of commercial radio Sport

So that is for me that's up tension in podcasting is that we've sort of slightly sold our souls are ready and only now we seeing the figures to back it up.

I do love this slightly world-weary times sometimes a podcast hosts went for whichever things to do in that particular day, which which matches do you like best? You know be honest? What's the thing is? I'm not totally if you ask listeners, which brands they have heard On podcast.

I think they will name you know your audible squarespace is Eva mattresses in your eyes because they've had those ads in the shows they love redbone but if they delivered in that we retirement it doesn't really work if you have you got brand awareness, but it only podcasting advertising only really works.

Doesn't it? When it really sounds like a no bulshit honest the Host loves this product thing.

That's why it works, but it may just tossing it off.

It doesn't anyway.

That's really hard to save engineer out of nothing and it's really hard to scale as well because also even you know you might be.

Be good at whatever specific thing you're podcast I was but some people are good at the ads and some people are not you know you get some house of just really can't sell it even when they do love the product, so it's very difficult to sort of with such a personal interaction that you're trying to monetize.

It's really hard to sort of make blanket assumptions about that will scale that across all industry, but that is now the game we're all in and from a business point of view Jim the data for the UK isn't comparable to the US hour podcast listening is 12% of the population in the previous week, but that's vs.

32% of America's listening in the past month and are quite comparable specialist at least less still long way to go and if you look at the US those networks are there and you know your giblets radiotopia some whatever we don't really have a comparable model in the UK yet.

They still a lot of Indies I guess it's like The Guardian making shows but there's not necessarily this very ambitious thinking going on.

Yeah.

I mean when we're making a push with her today in Focus which is is I'd really like listen to out of my way into work, but all that is again.

Daily Morning News produced by The Guardian house, I always think one of the things we don't because we don't have people so driving long distances in the same way to worry don't have 3 hours as I feel every day if it for most of the UK is he should have go along a freeway like you might in the States and also the BBC is just so dominant here is not you've got that the amount of money that they're putting into podcast at the moment that sometimes when you talk to Andy produce and they complain that trying to compete with the beef on stuff like this when they're able to get up 10 million here or there at trying to make podcast this success is quite hard to compete with and they don't need to have ads on that as well and also very easy to listen to Radio 5 Live speech program is high quality.

Yeah, do you think I must find a podcast on this subject not necessarily interesting where that is changing is demographically is so I think for people roughly over about 35.

Sleepy Hollow think like I have my Radio 4 shows I enjoy great I can also now done with the moth podcast as well and that's the extent of their desire to get involved in podcasting but for people younger than that at the sum of the research.

They radar figures and so on so that they are looking elsewhere whether that's apple music instead of Radio 1 or independent podcast or a podcast part of a small black and Company here instead of whatever show on 1Xtra being into my head as I'm sitting here, but have you yet met anyone who listens to be like for years now? Where's that? I've tried it once or twice a 2 minute ride it if it was very strange thing occasion.

They do it and the someone who makes me feel incredibly on cool talking about some amazing hot new record for a some producer that I've never heard about and I think you could pass it since then.

Greg James cable on a be listening to a bit more Radio 1 and I think it's not pretending to be as cool as it once was and it's actually quite a nice listen and then I put on something like you know the Apple station and then you just go.

I'm sorry.

I'm I mean I know I should have dressed up for tonight.

I'm sorry I've this isn't my place.

I'm just going to go to the pub round the corner and feel a bit safer there and you work near Hoxton talk about the BBC actually there under investigation again this time by the Equality and human rights commission who are looking into suspected pay discrimination against its female employees Caroline is not a story about go away.

Is it BBC say that changed a lot since they've revamped their policies a couple years ago? What do you think this research is going to find in 2019 and it's very clear isn't the BBC are now putting best efforts into this and they had a historic problem that admit that much so what's worth looking into well.

I think I think they're they said of historic stuff the stuff that was really headlinegrabber.

Was huge disparities in 100 thousands of pounds more being paid to male presenters and female in some case you know we had the real high-profile resignation of Carrie Gracie for that very reason she was under China editor because she found out how much less who's been paid by than the others have international BBC editors, but I'm I would be very confident in saying that there will still be smaller scale problems and also the thing with that and I don't know if this research will be able to get this but the thing we pay discrimination.

I'm always really interested in is you get this kind of headline thing if you're being paid more than her but what could she have done if she been paid more from the beginning.

You know there's a kind of structural what if stuff which you can't expect that of minority reports to help fix for that are anything but I'll be interested no with research like this.

You know who left the BBC in their mid 30s because they just felt like they were never going to get paid what they are.

Do you know I'm actually does the behind-the-scenes stuff as well.

I mean that would be more significant in a way.

If you was uncover that was a huge gender pay gap between male and female staff the BBC with producing programs working pine this investigation into his shoes.

So it's going to look at between 2016 and when the BBC puts its actual reforms that it has promised into place.

So it's almost the retrospective inquiry but crucially the interesting thing is going to be we all heard about the stars who are getting paid undergravel lessmore the issue here is going to be what do you find on the people who are slaving away to make the programs on a fraction flat who are finding that the person sitting next to them is not paid £100 more than that V grandmother move that in their own way is a substantially bigger need some percentage of salary.

I think that kind of thing would be really really interesting because I think you might see some of the same percentage is almost as of the Big on-air Talent but just you know when you're being paid £30 instead of €300.

Caveat mean on a talented its own particular industry, well, I do know I think they'll still bill you know if you want to find caveats your find them.

They'll still be like yeah.

Well, you know but you had maternity leave you were away for a year or you know this person was able to find this training in their spare time like you know there's always ways around it so I think what would be quite nice if this kind of enquiry forces into say no actually we have a problem and this is what we doing about it.

Ok? Let's talk about Disney and fox because it looks like that is finally going to come to its climax next week Disney taking over most of fox for over 70 million dollars is expected to be announced on Tuesday gym at what does this mean for UK audiences? What we actually gonna see hear well.

I mean the chunky the chunky deals with Sky episode have already gone through we got there that I have I said do conkers now.

I'm confused now.

I'm desperately hoping that that's correct now you put me on Skype at the share, but I know it's definitely part of the family now.

In the background for listeners who who got completely lost in all of this is there fat Boots after Rupert Murdoch did that lengthy lengthy bid to take over all of Sky in the UK 10 years of Media reporting on whether he'll be allowed to whether or not he won't be allowed to eventually has Disney bought fox anyway.

They lost out in the bidding war with comcast and all of that was slightly academic.

So you know that the UK and that's really the really big thing the interesting one is going to be what Disney does with the TV assets that it's buying on the entertainment side from Fox and what it does with that in terms of streaming has Murdoch took the view that even fox was going to struggle to compete in the new landscape coming around and in the US if I'm right this gives Disney a greater share of Hulu they weren't you had a shower, but that have a greater check the foxes are too but in the UK there isn't a similar thing that they're getting bi by buying fox.

Is there cos guys a separate company so streaming wise where do you get your fox staff in the UK

Deals right so they're going to have to licence it with Netflix or Amazon or one of the services that you can get in the UK and I guess which one they choose will be an interesting indication of you know what kind of market play they want to be using streaming service which is coming down the treachery of these three or four or five or six streaming services that you're already paying for which more later and if you look at your Hollywood reporter.

They're saying the two companies are going to be run separately Disney and fox, but obviously that still means especially of us that means massive job losses doesn't it? Will only take about a decade to play out before eventually one brand name is dropped an entire group of executives are unceremoniously pushed out the door and a few big payoff down the line than one ego will rise the top I normally played out on these ones but I can't imagine them getting rid of 20th Century Fox as a brand surely.

Can you imagine that no, I can't stay.

I think she must have no we will be back with more Media such like new after this potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud.

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You've just had a real threat from a real cyber attack 1 in 3 small businesses have been hacked hiscox are experts in small business insurance will cover loss of income the cost of dealing with an attack and we'll get you back up and running fast hiscox ever onwards Tempest media news in brief now gym and Caroline are still with me and the Nation's largest commercial radio network global and now it's late last month that they're going to be closing many local breakfast shows reducing their broadcast centres from 24 down to 14 mm so heart capital and smooth are going to get national breakfast shows Caroline but regional drivetime shows WhatsApp Quays original drivetime.

Shows is that right?

The little has its root in an Ofcom ruling out about the requirements for the provision of local or regional radio essentially and Ofcom after I think much lobbying by these big radio companies and lifted the requirement to have the breakfast show the flagship show on the network often the most listened show on the network be made in the place where it's broadcast essentially and after that will change it was always going to happen that these companies will gonna look at how they could make savings and that is closing a lot of these regional sentence.

You know making one show that goes out to lots of places instead of lots of shows that go out and it also means a lot of job losses for most people who were producing all these regional Breakfast Show the country gym but from a business point of view it's very difficult to see how global wouldn't take this page of being able to do this run the syndicated show probably from London across a network and compete with the BBC I mean I can't blame them for lobbying for the change doing it.

Completely makes sense from a business perspective.

I think that having having grown up overdue from North Yorkshire having grown up with all of those local identity stations that you hadn't you get a bit of TFM coming down for Middlesbrough you get Viking FM from Hull you get Minster FM and they already felt like they are of their place and the you know but equally can I say that im regli listening to local radio? Can I say that im listening to commercial radio lot of the time? I am I crying out for someone who's much more local to where I'm living maybe not and that's the problem.

I I I get nostalgic a lot of people get nostalgic for the idea that each City small town would have its two people who get you up in the morning and do wacky jingles butter or not.

You can financially make that work when there's so many national DAB station so many new launches to compete for people's listening time that was the argument for the off change the way people listen has changed the

Podcasting streaming it's actually has all changed how people listen to audio and that the regulations weren't keeping pace with people's consumption patterns, so yeah, there is a lot of nostalgic.

I think it's Crimbo the idea TuneIn on the only an hour on the school run on your way to work and rather than getting a bloke from down the road talking about that big thing that's coming into town and that sense of belonging to a community you've got someone Fusey astic with a different accent from London talking about stuff that you have absolutely no idea about the evidence seems to suggest that audiences don't care so I know it's really Graham ratings go up when they call it capital everything you can just never get audiences to do what they really should I suppose you could argue that the reason that wouldn't don't care.

It's because the product but global have delivered over the last decade has been very smooth to use clipper.

It's been very slick, but they don't my systemically stop taking the local Ms out of it anyway, so you don't know what you're missing.

I mean if your nail 20 you never heard a

Local wasn't truly local anyway.

I'm particularly worried about as well as actually the news coverage because those and regional Centres they had innohosting engineers and stuff, but they also had genus.

He went out and reported big stories in their areas and so you are and I think they are global definitely are going to be stopping up there London Newsroom more in biggest lake shifting the balance of that and that you are going to get you know a story in Penzance is going to be covered by somebody in London who's almost certainly not gonna be able to go there.

I store in Penzance would probably be covered by someone took me talking hundreds of miles.

I think it's reflux the ITV regions roughly as 11 or 12, but it does mean that I think I can drop the local breakfast.

They have one locally distinctive story and every new person so that's a pretty token effort to be able to opt out of Pretty major cost ok today with radio and fresh off the launch of classical music station.

About having a new country radio station view country fans has left me because I am absolutely bang in the demographic for this for this day.

Shall I am B Young country hits listener, but I'm also Chris country listening in all of the press coverage with this new station.

It's is called country hits.

They will talk about being the first national country radio station in the UK but Chris country, which is basically run from this guy's Chris laptop in Salford is almost nationalism DAB frequency and this is another one of the big Media groups taking on wallets for guys basically country music is a great news, but I wonder if it can really you know you survive 2 radio station.

I didn't actually write-up that story but I'm glad I didn't know that you've had so fat check me.

I would have just taken at face value the claim that it was the first national country music station have more coverage.

You see so they can claim it's the first National

Veganic be able to keep going in the face of that.

I never heard of it and I really wanna listen to Great social integration and it is is literally a one-man operation and it sounds great I suppose the distinction that they would make a bow with make you said it's called country hits because they're playing but it's well as Chris country prize abroad erectile.

Play a bit Dolly Parton a bit of Kenny and whatever as well as the new stuff I suppose it's good news for the radio industry.

Especially when you're seeing this Close of local stations to see new national brands popping up on DAB I think scholars are clever one.

I thought that was a really clever idea for a launcher that so basically there's Radio 3 for the sort of person who sits there at the back of the recital tut-tut it's like slightly out of line with what they expected you got classic FM which has a viber you know your grandad in the garden and then you've basically got something.

That's the 6 music centres DAB market.

I like a bit of it, but I don't really want the fussy stuff and I do like the Harry Potter theme occasionally and it sort of work.

I think I think it could be a bit of a slow burn success.

Play stick with that one, but I think that actually it seems to me Media commentators.

Haven't said about both of these launches by Bauer Scarlet and Country hits is that whatever spin they put it in the press release centrally stations aimed at upmarket white people aren't they both bad it going for an affluent advertised eccentric audiences.

Why this people want to sell to listeners like me my parents are huge classic FM fans the only time I ever hear it is to sit on 24/7 in their house and I'm always fascinated to hear the stuff.

That's advertised on frisco different kind of advertising never hear it.

So it's PPI it's constipation.

They have a lot of conservation adverts.

That's what you need for a good life really think probably feel quite lucrative market ok streaming services you alluded to this earlier gym, but I should I cut you show us the BBC 90 be announcing a new joint venture called britbox.

This is project kangaroo.

2 isn't it for long-term? This is of the show project kangaroo which was the thing which back in the depths of time the BBC iTV and whatnot came together in said liquid love to iPlayer taking off other Sosa taking off.

How about we all come together and make a Freeview 4 catch-up and they were told no no that would be terribly unfair on the commercial sector you delete all banjo Netflix came in had a load of other than 10 years later BBC right Evie limping a bit late with this archive Service which will be broadly speaking everything that's been around for about a year in one place presumably about 5 or £6 a month with the odds new commission for giving the budget they've got not an awful.

Lot of new commissioning and the justification does make sense though, doesn't it in that you know I remember 20 years ago.

I bought Fawlty Towers and I'm Alan Partridge on DVD and I'm sitting watching with my dad and that was the BBC making.

A couple of quid off each one of those which they're not making when I'm watching it on Netflix it makes sense doesn't it for the BBC night if you have a proprietary boxset service that you pay for but some people say what I've already paid my licence fee once.

Why would I pay again? Yeah? That's a good argument and also I mean they have been because I've been wanting for a while.

What is the digital equivalent of that you know buying the DVDs and they do put some of it up on Apple that you can buy these things like one of downloads on Apple but I was he not even wants to have all the videos live in the Apple ecosystem, but yeah, I just can't help feeling that it's too little too late and also I don't fully understand maybe Jim can explain this to me what happens to like stuff that's been off iPlayer so it's like 30 days old, but not yet like 12 months old well, the BBC is trying to allow get permission to put stuff on iPlayer for longer.

I mean personally.

I find it constantly frustrating battling with by the time.

I think of watching some series that I've met maybe even today, What's your

Aurora know that documentary looks great.

They've only got the second episode onwards and they've only got the sign language version great will that's great if you want to watch this watch Super may not know I'm sorry you missed your chance and it's just very very infuriating and and just a really bad experience and to be honest if you try and explain to a teenager today, who is used to Netflix who in that terrify way that but it happens Netflix has now been in the UK for 667 years so if you were 30 and then you're now at university.

You've grown up with all of your son of semi adult life knowing about Netflix subscription and if you don't say that there's this thing that the BBC and it's like twice the price of Netflix and right now.

You're not using it as much then cynically.

They don't necessarily get it.

I've had this conversation.

I know you get a range of services and they can't quite get that.

It's not a straight subscription like Netflix and its further.

Created this idea by the burgeoning success actually of the UK and d television market, isn't it? Yeah, there's great piece by Mark Lawson actually in the Guardian which said if you look at that im of the top 25 most popular or best critically acclaimed shows in the Guardian zone list from last year only one of them Doctor Who is only by the BBC in the rest of made by Indies for the BBC or iTV or Channel 4 so how does rice work on that in these want to get their money to yeah, and it only minutes it's telling that things like her bodyguard Massey I was over in New York in the everyone was watching bodyguard.

I love this new Netflix show is sitting room is like that was that was one of us.

Oh really I'm how sweet you know they don't really know where the stuff coming from and you know it is Netflix very cleverly and Stacey on Netflix original on it.

Why is everyone complied with that because I'm the same with American stuff.

I don't know what channel is.

I'm so confused about what happened.

I feel like the sweet spot for brickbox or whatever is the like 10 months after it goes off iPlayer but like before it appears on.

I think theoretically you won't be seeing on Netflix is basic rate of default as the Netflix rights expire stuff or move back.

So if You series of love Island are all on Netflix UK at the moment.

Why think they're doing quite well, but that will win that deal runs out expect to see them be exclusively available britbox that time that you just want to watch 10 hours straight people in the villa.

The original commissions thing is really complicated as well.

Isn't it? As you can see why ITV could make a regional commissions for brickbox, but maybe she can't spend licence fee payers money original content may have to pay to see how many otherwise I just don't see them making match with the budget that they've got I am already slightly confused by how you know one of the biggest BBC hits that he must been killing you actually made in commission by BBC America showing in America first then came to the BBC as it's coming second broadcast what happens to that can BBC America make things up.

Britbox, it's a mess that said if people who are commissioning original content for britbox or indeed scala radio or country hits are interested.

I am freelance and available now.

You will be thrilled to know there is just time for our Media quiz.

This week is entitled famous last words.

We've got altogether 3 quotes from the past week that might come back to haunt the author your task is to name the speaker and then the story are you buzzing with your name that grown you're doing now Jim would have been better timed a minute ago.

Ok.

We got to hear it's best of 3 so you buzzing with your name when you know the answer to gym you will say to you and Caroline you will say right.

Let's go his quote number one if it's subsequently transpired that a suspect was found guilty it will be the case that there was no breach of Rule 5.1 as the news would indeed have been reported with due accuracy.

What's the quote Caroline Caroline the standing radio reporter who everyone else go to a party or something and they were left alone after off the radio network for inaccurate report.

Buying used trainer gym for a bonus point if you want to be with Caroline on this.

Do you know what the pho par was this they they they said someone had been arrested and talking about their murder or something like that day.

They rather go ahead of themselves.

I think I think it's why you don't leave the infinite charge and go down the pub thing isn't it so late, but he said the man who murdered and Fincher which obviously is not what you do.

You say the man has been accused of murder similar mistake about my university did newspaper when they University kind of test for people who want to apply to be added to whatever and one it was exactly this 101 like edit this new story.

So that is legally acceptable and I left him there like the man.

Who did the right for me out of here on the one hand you feel like I'm number one and it's really important.

It's a car that's true.

That's what happened the star from ballarat their own internal awards ceremony.

He was the cover guy.

Do you feel a bit sorry for it been left there? I feel a bit sorry for him, but don't do that.

Just makes someone not met go to the party.

I also can't remember I'm always amazed with these things was the who who calls them out and stops them and then things to report of the noises to survival sitting there waiting for them to slip up and then send it the report I want covered Steve Allen on LBC whilst he was at the Sony Awards but I thought well.

I'm not gonna get more Ofcom complaint for the names on flight number to even with brexit.

Where are you consistent and negative campaign by prominent newspapers provided a barrage against those of us arguing to stay in the EU I think the presses influence was overstated.

Buzzing with your name when you know the answer this definitely feels like something I should know you actually read it to it earlier.

The presses influence was overstated regarding fixers Jim Jim not only read it but I was there and heard the word and report on it, so I really should know that one that was him that was him doing is Hugh cudlipp lecture where among other things he said I want to your I'd love to have been European commissioner and he also when I asked him about them.

Are you a bit concerned about the Saudi investor taken the first steak and evening Standard he Mumbles something more lines of well.

Everyone has for an hour is now anyway, which wasn't quite the response that I was after what was the feeling towards him in the room actually because he has been in the job name for two years.

He is a proper newspaper editor a lot of people.

Don't think that long.

I think he's still a bit of a curio in the industry.

I think people still find it weird that he's the guy who's actually sending the pages off to the press everyday.

I'm still curious.

You think he's relatively hand on Amazon based on what I've what I've heard a mini.

I know it's got 6 other jobs, but I mean he's still he's still around making a lot of the calls.

I mean I just assumed in this is my internet isn't working.

There were some really hard working female deputy you was actually do it all for me even though you have to be really because you got the points about 200m.

It's all to play for Caroline here is quite number 3 MOMO challenge has caused severe trauma among pupils school safety group says he's quite as that is it the Manchester Evening News so you won't buzzing Caroline and the answer is it from the Manchester Evening News from the Manchester Evening News it was the first story about MOMO which turned out to be fake news, but they still managed to get lots of hits for their new site and that version is still up at the time of recording which means there is no winner which is a great metaphor.

That is it for the chauffeur today my thanks to Caroline Crampton and to Jim Waterson will be back in two weeks time with another episode of the media business podcast in which I'll be looking at the findings of broadcast magazine indie survey 2019.

That is a must for anyone working in the TV sector and then I will be back with an ordinary roundtable Media podcast edition of the week after that you can help us keep the show on the road with more news analysis all year round by taking out of voluntary subscription one of those against very trendy these days.

You know head to the media podcast dot.com / donate.

Are you can catch up with previous episodes and get new ones as soon as they're released by subscribing for free on our website via Media podcast.

I'm only man the producer Matt Hill the media podcast is a production Little Mix time.

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