Read this: #54 - EU Referendum Special - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

Potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built it's like a say on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud web better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., tullamore got plans for the long weekend.

You could get your friends round for drinks maybe even your first barbecue of it's not too chilly.

Why not don't forget the brancott estate Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc from reading.

They said was too chilly for growing but the pioneering winemakers of brancott estate didn't listen.

They were the first to plan in Melbourne New Zealand for decades and a bunch of wards later.

It is crisp and fresh as ever look out for on new colourful limited edition bottles in stores now.

Enjoy responsibly drinkaware.co.uk.

Hello and welcome to the media podcast it may not surprise you to know that there is only really one topic that we're going to focus on today, but my god do I have a fantastic panel to discuss it with a join today by Louise Ridley the assistant news editor of the Huffington Post at Boyd Hilton friend of the show entertainment director of heat magazine and Mirror by halaal from the evening Standard welcome to you all that we're going to be talking of course about brexit, but we're going to be talking about the referendum from the point of view of the media coverage and the impact that all of this is going to have now we have a decision that Britain is going to leave the EU for the media Industry at so it's just as well that we've got a multitude of experts here.

Let's stop myself about the TV coverage first so and how the result was actually brought to us at Natural

I feel like should ask boy the boy since you are the professional tv.

Critic and I know you you have your opinions ladies first, how they found out the results as slightly more laypeople mirror.

What was your choice of Media outlet that brings this neatly to Louise from huffpo at what about UB40 Napoli to say I went I went to sleep about 12 12/13 year was getting up for a morning shift on our news team that point I was pretty confident that remain had one because Nigel Farage it said so he would be a man who would not not get that wrong.

You think so went sleep thinking this is what's going to happen the morning on a new the result will come for 5 that can a time or the Sid of clear indication of the result and I wake up to our alert saying that ITV hub cold it for remain based on about 10 reasons I think and it was really surprising because it?

I always thought it was a mistake because all these letters kept coming in and it just reversed completely company information.

Where do you where do you go for verification? Do you turn on the BBC I mean the evidences that that's what most people are doing Steve did we got 36.3% share of the apple and I'll probably go onto Twitter or I go into an app not is not necessarily the one that sent me a letter so I wouldn't turn on the TV I think it's to do with Robbie with working alone or being someone on Twitter all the time.

I wouldn't turn to the TV for instant updates, but I think especially in the case of referendum.

It's in or out.

It's quite simple pleasure of watching all night.

Coverage is not necessary in the complex sense of in a general election.

It's it's the app so I kind of you.

Just want that answer didn't receive on social media Take the politicians out of it and the political campaign groups are broadcast journalist some people actually looking at the tweets, Robert Peston

He definitely agree with that a lot of the best people and when we're in a we often cover staff the way they have to face works as will often cover in a will.

Look at what are the journalist the saying and include lot of conversation is very often broadcaster humate.

Who are the main sources for a lot of things that if it's not a self ok Boyd you have the floor as I say Dimbleby won the day in terms of 3.9 million ITV 1.2 million 11.9% Share.

Did you flick between the two did you watch any 18 Burnley on Sky or entirely by the way for about 5 minutes and an electric and stand out how to turn back? I just thought I'd check her out in but it was all he was to de-stressing.

Why she's entertaining.

I do 40 laps gravitas in this situations.

I really do and I just think you know you watch Dimbleby Tom bradby to some extent so I spent the most of the time.

With Dimbleby inflict over to ITV to some of it and it was interesting because it was an absolutely unique televisual thing where it's not it wasn't cuz it wasn't an election and because they didn't have an exit poll and they don't have any way of doing an exit polls.

That's fine.

Don't offend people understood the reasons why they do explain why because all exit polls are based on swings from the previous selection and eating each constituency so it's quite it's a fairly easy for that thing to do but to do an exit poll for this referendum.

They would have had to have had people placed outside pretty much every major it's called area in Oakham voting area and including the exploded.

I think we're doing too expensive and I guess it wouldn't have compared it to results from melting points.

They couldn't do that.

So then had this really complicated on BBC and ITV explanation of they come up with a way of working out what each area should probably.

Have voted to give us some sense of which way it was going assuming the whole thing was going to be 50/50.

So it was like the whole thing was based on human.

It's for the roughly 50 50 split then all this specific areas that were way over there or way under it could tell us something about who is going to win, but what was interesting as there was about 2 hours where they just couldn't almost anything like she had no idea there was a brilliant David Dimbleby said none of this amounts to a hill of beans and I need it.

Just completely discounted 2 hours of broadcasting and him in the region you still the best is it's completely transparent so when he thinks the whole thing as possible.

She will tell you live on TV that it's what's happening is pointless what you're watching his flightless any did Channel 4 Hindi as I say I didn't watch what's the Channel 4 news.

Didn't do anything you can have a good.

With, comedians and stuff that I think almost there was so little information to go and do that.

Just would have been another version of the Debate thing.

They have the other night which also had celebrities involved as well.

I think it was a good call.

It would be pointless because it was 7 points as it was so is what I was watching for least two probably 3 hours people filling desperately and looking at weird ways to fill on all this on BBC iTV NCIS accent Sky TV had a Facebook bloke telling us what the favourite bands were of the remain and the leave vote leave favourite band was Queen Anne remind Simon's muse this is the stuff that we were watching out when you do flick on the TV and you see your kind of digital world being reflected back at you buy allegra Stratton selling integrated.

Do you think they're getting this wrong?

Not there's nothing they should or shouldn't be mixed but I mean Up For This podcast of course I thought about how how is the online did I put the send inverted commas, how is the online media world covered a campaign and it's it's much more fragmented.

It's not because obviously with a TV programme you got your section where you're going to talk about.

What does he think what does Facebook think but with online we can just cover completely separate stories perhaps with much less of a link.

I think um yeah, that's the interesting thing.

We would have to be part of it not part of sound like the newspapers and we aren't bound by having to be impartial like some broadcast as it's just a complete mix.

So it's a jungle, but it's an exciting time for decided to do with just nothing is going to happen.

The result is whisker Close let's not have all this rubbish spouting out all night.

Let's resume hostilities at 2:30 in the morning.

I've said two things to that one is I think probably in Hindhead I could have started at midnight and but I guess the sooty.

Is it almost like a sex as soon as the polls close at 10 they have to do something with the first 2 hours there was very little, but as soon as the first result came in which was about mean.

I think Newcastle wasn't it and then all of these as soon as soon as the North East and northern working class towns and started coming and asuna becoming clear that there was a big big majority believe in these traditional labour working class white working class areas that was when everyone started to realise on the if you're if you're happy to meet them on the remain side.

It was going to be it was not looking good and that was when you know Nigel Farage took back the you know his I didn't conceding that was when all it was so what you do get on TV and I think this is why they had to do another still the journalist.

About the tweeting about it and there are watching what I was watching you know this you still getting the first port of call is still on television.

Isn't there any event like this and so I still think television reigns supreme because that's watching it and you did get a sense the first result came in if you were remain that it's gone.

It's gone wrong and everyone on Twitter start and there was a sense by certainly buy that to that it was really going wrong and I went to bed at 3 and I just start listen to BBC radio coverage at 3 that I can the background by about 3.

I thought I can go to bed and now I know I've been raised if when I get up in the morning.

It's not be no leave hasn't won and do they did let's talk about the radio coverage, then which you just mention it because Radio 4.

I think today so recording this on the day of the result I have extended the world at One by an hour.

So it's another world at 12.

I think is a longer show but basically they still doing you know the cookery programmes and the dramas at is that the right decision.

You do think of the Westminster bubble and you think of Radio 4 even though there's 5 live on LBC I think is 5 life has cleared schedule if you want to listen to to post referendum coverage you cook you're going to go to 5 live radio for me know something is wrong with extended those shows has Kesha it seems that makes sense to me a simile.

I mean even ITV This Morning so when I was your plan to do because of the Cameron resignation is that right in terms of tone as well, do you think mirror do you think it's important to see Alastair Stewart bringing you the headlines on ITV rather than Phillip Schofield or could they not actually do serious news using the sets of they have for the daytime television and their experience live broadcast Sophie think this we are the voice of the of the media bubble antuit most people out there.

I really don't think I don't know how many of them never want to see Alastair Stewart again.

Shortly I could live very happily without it, but I just stop listening to their program a very long time ago and that was on the basis that I just

Fed up with one interview with a B-Class politician following another one and remedial it seems to me during the referendum campaign was really going for the people when you had sit down one-on-one interviews with them.

No one else really was very good point because I think only think about anyone.

I think probably you know I know you told Murdoch fig and honey x on with that and still involve down the Spectators me you think probably he's alright.

I don't know I make that assumption but I do think he's the best political into out there, but I think he's brilliant and he really does hold who whichever on whichever side of whatever issue.

He holds into account and it is incredibly well briefed and his his his mastery of the fact.

I think it's fantastic and I think his interviews have been on the absolute highlight of the whole TV coverage and I think it was terrible wasn't used on the live coverage last night.

I was a real so they had BBC who do they have doing those they had their.

Trying with all the merrymakers.

Thank you.

Write about Daniel today and outside.

I thought you was an across-the-board election night coverage at the at the actual indoor referendum night coverage, when they have gas illustrator gets very cosy even cozier than you might think so you know that Ian Duncan Smith something was won the first guests on BBC captain.

It was like they're supposed to be that much but it sounded element doing it would have been a different situation.

I think you're probably would have been tearing into him like a terrier battle that the ridiculous contradictions of Iain Duncan Smith's entire political career.

Where is it was like that speak and it is very stop giving pretending to be impartial on cutie the choice of guests on cutie again another program has stopped stop watching is there post reform in in touch a referendum.

Question Time It's

Scrupulously and if they haven't you know every week that had to I think on each side and someone undecided and what about huffington Post how do you maintain balance in that as a publication? We are we dance we're completely politically neutral which is great and we kind of had this approach of taking things issue by issue is really great so we can we was trying not like what I read is thinking as around eyes and what people are saying online a lot of the time.

So it means that we try and ANC politicians from both side and we reflect and of trends online as he can imagine it often.

They are you know and not impartial the transfer will be everyone's complaining about something and we write that story.

I'm not necessarily see we might seek we won't see her balance.

You know an opposite for you.

If there isn't one bit of course Twitter say freezing.

What is a huge vat of course.

There is balance Unilever and screaming about one thing I'll be a few people so we'll put that in that we won't try and represent them as balance say there's hundreds of

People tweeting about accusing the leave campaign over while they remain campaign able I will put all those in we're not going to then put 50 of each tweets, you know so in some ways.

It's a different way of thinking about balance, but I think it is she wait as you approach is really great in that.

We you know if ever I was angry that Tory MP about something will cover it as I was angry of the Labour MP will cover it it just goes story by story which is different I guess you don't have that restriction of print sections to fill in an Ofcom guidelines say things like that and what has been clicked boat during this campaign for you wonderful one that he would be lovely positive and we have a lovely thing of dogs at polling stations which I'm sure you may have seen depending on how much internet and easy read obviously when people go to the police station.

They have to leave a dog's outside and there's a big trend aligner everyone you know it's always have talked to everyone takes pictures of the dogs at least 8 polling stations because it's sweet and it's always the stop saying on Twitter and it's all elections you know of the last many years and it's just wonderful because the lovely rail of happiness ever.

Excited something to get a mix between something silly and serious.

It's really interesting yesterday.

We had a story that did really well about the use pens thing.

I don't know if you saw this as a big save conspiracy theory of Money leave voters that they should all bring pens the polling station because there was a good seriously that they remained supportive in a rubber out the pencil Marks and I do this sounds silly, but they're actually quite a lot of people who genuinely concerned about this and it again it show the son of real fever pitch that we'd reached Close referendum.

So it started as a silly story and actually reflected quite a lot of Hanks that was going on among young Lee fatalistic about the press and how the press covered it and campaigned for it because boys you listed the kind of right wing papers earlier, but it's not as simple as that is it because the Daily Mail was out, but the Mail on Sunday was in the x was in but the Sunday Times was out right.

That's true.

You're the newspaper person mirror.

What did you make of of how the papers cover the campaign?

Well, I was disgusted with mainly with the sun because of the leave campaign which plant at a lot of ideas and people's heads, but they were on the right side of history if you want to look at it that way against Syria to guess which way does a game as always are they prodding Mary deserve a reflecting their genuine prejudices and prods I'd have no doubt that the sun persuaded a lot of people maybe not enough but a lot of people to vote leave who may otherwise have maybe looked for the information may be than in the male.

Why do you think the Mail on Sunday was campaigning to remain whilst the male was campaigning to leave between Geordie and Paul dakers the editor of The Daily Mail whose job Jodie covert, so I don't think that had very much to do with politics and what about the Times people always so you can feel the hand of murder.

Walkthroughs press well, I mean he's got the sun the saying that the sun saying I'm saying slay and the Sunday Times saying leaves us or actually is it true when he says he doesn't get involved if you said it's not true vote remain because we think we can get another renegotiation.

I mean I didn't I don't read The Times but that's why I sent it wasn't a kind of it was enough for full throated some kind of remain on philosophic runs was kind of like a we don't think actually that you know if you don't leave you know that you actually will even make this other reproduce complica more complicated with us and that was Boris hedging his bets so even if I still win because we didn't go against the philosophy of Rupert Murdoch in a sense.

They kind of had a very slightly complex and contrived way of saying.

Remain but I don't need anyone did a really full throated argument passionately Let's Stay in a minimum trying to Remember never to Horsham the Guardian and observer the mirror ok the Mirror Mirror point I remember reading the Observer basically, they use not perfect but we don't need to go in and it's not something that's going to get your passion.

I don't really got me before I think this front pages of the mirror vs.

The son of his son leave and remain the sun had a kind of glowing in their have full-page images both of them in the sun's was Independence Day and it was all shiny and there was an earth and the mirror was looking down a dark tunnel and it really summed up that kind of I Guess That's Why some papers with almost hedging their bets or declaring quite slowly because of the extremities of the arguments in the patterns that he go on one side.

You're on that side.

You know and will either going to fall off a cliff or not as now today is the day where that's happening and it feels a bit even though it did you know something very cute as happened?

Another way anticlimactic because of all that language of building up over such a long time you now think well according to Cameron now, it should be the apocalypse, but obviously it's not quite the apocalypse or you know they did say really it's gonna be right given the strong language and people can have to go back on a lot of things.

I said it's very interesting and the mail and Express of course as I forget the Express have basically been campaigning against immigration haven't they not in the period of the referendum but for years and so up for me the hot and foamy the in the end.

You look at the results New Look At Who which areas voted for war and it the whole things about immigration to me and I think you know I was amazed at all the way through you know all the project fear phrase that we used for 4 and 4 remain to be but what am I fat the economic consequences for me the put the leaf people had project fear of immigration going back years and completely emphasise that point.

Day in day out and that same to me at the whole it wasn't what's the referendum on immigration to media and I think the race results came out on the coverage of it in the right click in the right wing press coverage of infamy that anger and fear they planted about immigration in all of those papers has much more women than the opposing are going to people like the garden in the mirror saying oh, yeah, it's not really you but you know it's the best and it'll be fine.

You know and there will be I promise I just think it was they really tapped into that here and that kind of that im only devoted to you, but I do think that campaign has been left absolutely the other thing that is different between print and broadcast as we've been discussing is that right on the day of the campaign the papers can still be absolutely pushing their agenda and actually taking out you know on that died yesterday.

They were they were full page ads for you.

Keep saying you know if you're worried about getting your kid a place in primary school then go out today and all the rest of it you think it's right that we still have these regulations on broadcasters or should it be the same parity across?

Broadcast Orchard printer not be allowed to do what it does much as I'd love the newspapers to have to some kind of factual you know but yeah in Perla I know I think it's too much can't put the Genie back in the bottle.

Can you Can't Stop by minutes so to me it's so I do think they had their think that the combined the combination of the right went live predominance.

I keep saying that phrase I know there are exceptions, but let's face it the telly and the politicians and you know I kind of coverage that buys into it and I don't do consciously biased coverage like like mirrors think that I think I do think there's an unconscious kind of buying into a certain way of what I do is constantly told that we're too scared to talk about immigrated so all of that kind of means that is it is terrible that the papers are allowed to do what I do, but it's a transparent to me that it's no point almost in stopping.

I was I do think that you have to carry on with the

The broadcast Media radio and TV being supposedly being impartial and having to about that you make it kind of makes even though there's a kind of slightly logical it kind of makes sense to me with that we should keep the restriction on broadcasters that they can I have to be impartial in this Thursday at the boat because as I said earlier that I think TV does lead it does leave the information in this event still and people do understand that the press is impartial to some extent you know people people know what they're buying and then you know what things are partially have to practically what I mean about the death of fact journalism and fact politics in this campaign there's also the schism we've been discussing between the demography as well younger people generally spend more time online.

They're going arguably to the fact checking websites.

Do you think enough effort was made to try and win round the older readers of the sun in the mail and say come and have a look at this as well a lot of what we do online and a lot of other on the nop.

Online only take me in the websites of the newspapers does online only is is the Sid of myth busting fact-checking kind of thing which is incredibly popular and often will be from Next but it won't be us it will be will have an expert who just wants the angry about some press coverage and wants to say set this right and you don't get that in the newspapers and things obviously because they can't mythbuster own site and when them if fasting other side it is then possible so I think I essentially you saying it has a have the there was definitely a huge issue with fact in this entire campaign from all sides and I couldn't even said I understand the full facts because the whole concept of the EU and leaving it is a hugely complicated thing with history and all the young people haven't had that history and its you know people need to have education at school about the or something you know it's it's a very very difficult thing to then have are crazy and partial newspapers Abbey on the top of that and all kinds of other layers and the discussion about refugees which is his separate you know we could separate out the whole refugee crisis in still this would have in a very complicated.

Let's see finished by just taking a look into the future here everyone saying we're stepping into an uncertain world.

We don't know what's going to happen, but we will have some idea of what might happen.

So let's talk about that with regard to the media.

I mean boy do you work for heat? Which is owned by Douwe which is a German company any any noises there.

Yes, I did wake up this morning and did think that the Germans who owned magazine and many other magazines and radio stations in this country might be horrified by the fact that we've kind of you know slap to European the face but I don't get any sense to them actually you'll actually affecting if they're I don't think you know the right political generally in there.

I'm sure and you know it's magazines make profit than dial Karen Publishing and if I did it just feels he just was another way that it makes me feel uneasy and sad and depressed that you know with separating ourselves from from from a European their brothers and sisters and Louisa post office in American company owned by AOL The Americans

Generally all of them from trump who seem to think that they can't understand why we would step out of something a bit like the USA as with a lot of other big online only players we're from the us as he said so we don't anticipate any big changes as far as I know it's kind of busy as normal and see what happens, but there's nothing nothing to suggest any massive my stainless oval mirror.

How do you see this playing out in the papers because as you said a lot of the moon compared campaigning for a long time for this they've got it now.

So now what that's not even going to be a Factor because what's the what the media will devour devour is this side of the Chinese say may you live in interesting Times as a curse that for the print media and the popular media and etc.

May you live in interesting Times is pure gold because now he will have endless front pages about members of the Tory Party attacking each other.

Pushing for position so I think the the newspapers will have a field Day their advertisers will love it, but it will not decision another black day for journalism.

I mean serious real proper journalism.

It is comparatively less when you can say is I woke up something about anxious for the first time in a long time, but I actually did want to turn on the telly and read the papers and look online people are going to vote Boris Johnson betting in a year's time 11th October Horsham to be Prime Minister anyway.

He wins the sorry to say and also why the Americans voted for Donald Trump it's because it's exciting it's made.

You know it's made.

Maybe didn't receive times if voters can actually make the times more interesting they can do and Louise is that your fault is it because we now live in a 24-hour news cycle and people want updates Every Minute on their phone of something.

New and exciting happening I do hope that's not the reason people of voting and Anna voting with their countries, but the story without today actually that kind of made me laugh and it's clear links.

It was a and leave voter who was interviewed on TV after the results and was absolutely shocked and he said he voted leave but he had no idea it would actually happened and it was that weird thing again because this debate was so extreme people couldn't think beyond the point of the vote now.

We won't be on the point.

It's all quite up in the air.

If you know it's not not even to speak economic turmoil, but it's actually up in the air.

How were either going to settle into it.

Yeah, well, it's very very interesting people just think there's something like 30% of leave voters thought it would happen.

So even though they knew it was close.

They didn't think it would happen, but they still voted for it is very psychologically about the establishment of Westminster Blvd I do wonder since the majority of the UK has voted to leave weather when we look back at the coverage over the last day it will again scene.

Elitist and Westminster because it is Doom and Gloom that we're leaving it's all the reports about the pound falling and what's going to happen to investment at the prime minister resigning.

I haven't yet.

Seen a shot of people celebrating apart from Nigel Farage at the back of some pop reception Rihanna actually as I was leaving the office to come here often with you this this is a vote that was 1 and of course more people than not who voted are happy and they've got what they wanted but there hasn't been much we know you can think about the media is like as photographers have not been bothering to go and look for all the people celebrating and they've been looking at the market.

I don't know about that so it's it is hard for anyone to really know what's going on but I think there must be people celebrating and there are a number 10 because he deserves to that's that's the Chinese curse may you live with the consequences of what you did not steal question.

I do think loads the reason why you're not saying celebrations just because I do think this is supposed to provide loads of people who voted leave are saying what the fuck.

I really do I think they're just I think there's an absolute.

I think I can I go back to my finger doing ecstasy felt like the more fun exciting Will Turner sexy thandi.

All the big Media organisations are in London in big cities where everyone voted remain so you could say they're not looking for other people have everything we've just been chatting about covering what's happened at the last 24hrs Cameron resigning has been such a low fat and it's been about story number for on a lot of in the Financial Times and us and somewhere else people were mocking online journalist that the prime minister's just resigned people coming into our office today and how do you feel about it not about Cameron resigning about the result which of course makes sense ecstasy historic result but someone doesn't he will step down as webcam lighting sleep in his kitchen that you might not save another full term was considered headlights really it's a given that it's almost not need.

To me, that's why the broadcast of extended that covered even more because of that.

I don't think they would have done if that had not happened at which point I think it would probably safe to say thank you very much to our panel for this week Mirror by hello Boyd Hilton and Louise Ridley we are going to take a very short summer holiday and will be back in a few short weeks.

Wherever you're listening to us in a muddy field or surrounded by suitcases in Downing Street thank you for subscribing and supporting the Show by donating it to the media podcast made out more about how you can do that at the media podcast opcom / dedicate only takes a few minutes and it will keep us independent but not in the brexit way the media podcast is a PPM production.

I've been Olly Mann

Potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud web better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud.

Come to learn more.