Read this: BONUS: Sally Wainwright in conversation with Russell T Davies

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man and his a little bonus episode that we put together just for you.

It's one of our favorite sessions from the Edinburgh TV festival featuring the writer Sally Wainwright in conversation with Russell T Davies both writers works on Coronation Street but then of course moved on to write their own dramas Sally most recently penned BBC One happy Valley and Last Tango in Halifax and Russell creating Queer as Folk Channel 4 and of course reviving Doctor Who in the early noughties.

Thanks for the Edinburgh International television Festival for sharing this recording with us and to our sponsor the media Masters podcast you find out if he's on their show this week later in the program the first the real treat this is Sally Wainwright talking to Russell T Davies

Home pissed what is Danish for sticking her bet it was about 25 years.

I think so little Sally Wainwright Walking Dead full stories I know used to write stuff.

I think I started write thinking I started becoming aware that I want to tell stories about 17 my sister used to do strip cartoonist Beatrice nude painting furniture with me wanting such as combination of visuals and hamstring shorts Story characters called Tim Henman system the rapper.

YouTube Amelia and we used to read them together that night we used to write layers Norwood read each other's place but we did them out that would you like me I think you should I buy the I used to love it more than I've never been a bit worried now as a child that I think I was dyslexic.

I just couldn't get past first paid off.

So they were really boring and it was only the dialogue that excited me not just interested and excited now loved controlling what people said until when do the postscript come out to play Monopoly

Jennifer can a student in writing and directing please direct me to come back to that.

I know but a big influence 1977 thought I Claudius was going to be the best drama at the baftas, and it was packed C1 by rock Follies which was a magnificent victory one of the best programs and I know you love that as well mate.

I know I cannot a good for your light slightly chronologically by The Wonder Stuff off every so often and say because I think about rock Follies I think that music please put in your stuff Virginia singing in the musical Sally Wainwright where is it? Where is it? It's on the way is it really hoping wouldn't say that I didn't know that because I listen to your Desert Island Discs and I got to be a little bit.

Music in total is like this great big do the English countryside the Victoria Woods on a broadband and id like to think it's really hard to get it right.

I think it's still use to get it wrong for everyone that successful acts properly Tommy Morrison ever been in love anything resembling too scared to come and pick them because it's dermatitis Sunday Komedia what you think and I'd love to do you have to make them very very funny, so I can do all the drama, but then you have to believe that this person is genuinely funny and as with a musically have to believe that this is proper good music and it's so hard to get you want me to play.

Partly musical.ly shares in that would just the music you were you a student even right thing I can think that the Flower Show ticket to Grenada it how to get into a golden time.

It was good, but I've been writing the actress and I had my Edgington my daddy's got me in to write a shadow script on family right.

I think desk cases read one of your skin because one of the great things about this is at the races today because I can sit and watch Sally's work and not even awake started life as a scripture such a great complement of things out.

I found some money was a family and it was brilliant because did you what you worked on a story line? And what was the week was we want to be and we watch the real teen having a story conference and it's such a privilege thing to see in witness and to learn from an island so much just listen to people's Wallace Avenue was the greatest but there's a lot of people like him and just about to listen to how they developed an idea and now they would really fun an idea and not around the room and Revelations someone Colton has was there such a sympathetic and Peter Woolley said hi and qualification.

He has absolutely right and it was cos it's because there will be people out there.

They will be students and professors writing PhD writing and then I like the 100 episodes of yours stored on the shelves Granada no one ever sees because obviously out of Coronation Street has but we always that's when we first met story like that and we made revelations.

We make Springhill we make car for upon Tyne NE1 a member coronation spin-off called maryan that never got any music sheets with intent to become a list of Granada Ventures that we really thought it was it was a sitcom called the house of Windsor and anyone remember the house of Windsor hopefully.

Nobody has ever heard of that was supposed to go back into rescuing with the person who wrote it never turned up.

It was a sitcom been made in a weekly fashion like drop the Dead Donkey would be rehearsed all week recorded on a Friday night transmitted on a Sunday so we then had to go into the rehearsal on Monday morning with the Bad review what rubbish are the Virgin thought he would have written the script and you said to me and I said yes, I wrote but you didn't I have lissie when I love her to go silent eclipse actually.

Holborn muscat look at me 12 you fall asleep understand me over the great customer service pulling can't remember who else but did you not just about that time was it's funny because you say you're so modest and I think you can't see it from my point of view YouTube accept any work on cars wanted to show that you could do anything that I won't stop until you like The Wanted my photos of course work for children's ward.

Happy days.

Will I know if you ask Paul Abbott would you advise young Writers to go into a soap opera these days did anyone.

Because I know you are learning so much but had to sell story that's the hardest thing we do for me story is the hardest single thing about what we do it sort of thing I've read it to work harder and it was working on a sub that made me realise you've got to work at it.

You really got to throw yourself into it and sit down until things start to it's not going to just happened without you actually actively there's no into that's not supported and encouraged to Comber writing into of the Hilton at the altar system.

Glamglow film and it's like those things out the cells that you're quiet.

We knew you would sit through meeting with relapsed or lino commission competition didn't say a word and it did we were terrified particularly with the satiety Google you probably never knew how powerful were you didn't know I was just tell you where you but I can't I know it was weird that I didn't speak and I'm ashamed of me because it goes on the way can't speak this when you do it later.

That's weird she spoke.

Room full of people been there a long time will really knew what they were doing Hood made that showing to the legend that it was and it was so clever and also powerful men who have a brilliant white as a woman going into what was very masculine world female produces very overwhelming and it could be quiet cruel as well forget in the whenever it was early 90s, when do still kind of Culture where at lunchtime everybody would just drink a lot and the afternoon Delight Armageddon biid dipped in my store at a few blocks.

You have got something very definite very clear to say I would find that very difficult that's why I want to just a few of those most of the story sessions and I can remember things to the day.

I'm writing descriptors great learning Facebook so how did you doing there? Been of somebody 30th? So they really knew what they were talking about you.

So why do I bother speaking just sat down? Yeah? That's true that and I think it's some good stuff, Hannah Patterson writer the Holy Grail forget your old shipmates Coniston to getting your own show.

Before it got commissioned.

I'm able to sit on your story.

I've had in my head for about 15 years before the polls were it wasn't to do with money original was to do with family.

Sorry about family and it became what it became further on a 1.2 was going to get 38 million from British Telecom accidentally credited their account with 38 name, and she tried to ring them up to tell them that made a mistake will get through to anyone about it something I've been working on this dysfunction realised it was about my family and fertility.

Oh, yeah, be watching it for quite a long time.

Would it make to order it and it has a half-hour sitcom and he said right the third episode of the first one Wright III episode and then there was a brilliant Disguise because it became the first episode but it hit the ground running and then I think Caroline Reynolds took it when she decided to do our Lord Rama and then we went to Nick Elliott who didn't like it.

Didn't mean it and he's people champions for both estate agents, stoneywood all these people become listed are created for the main purpose of people turned up and then Danny Cohen BBC

Brilliant and then to test it and what was that? What was successful or unsuccessful because I thought it was normal so when I have the next show did Rosa park house look like they do that because what happened at about this time round when you can do you say it's like that you got to Dewsbury? Did you use to add speakers a child has man start to see television for your children's eyes and how they watch it.

As I don't need to come over this but the older I get here jungle Tours and I found my protagonist tend to be the same age as me and leave to get hold of her as I do some writing y1 writing now.

It's about 50 year old women.

Where is when I was writing the braithwaites.

I was writing basically about that.

I was more like Virginia than I was with Alison Alistair Mosul because she was supposed to say that used to write it used to parents as they get older and you got to remember the people having kids of 88 watching something like that, but we're just watching the river.

It's it makes me trains because

I think having children you worry about how much you no bad language are used and unused car and now I do know this but still do it anyway having children as well as made me but more responsible and write about more grown up things now believes me the roadworks was just the last match.

Would you do in the Mac win the match?

How are you ok with Kevin lygo breaking the speed that is probably like a does with the syndicate and then the claridges new family because it may be the result of Us 2 episode 2 series 4 right and then Bailey working in a team with other people know I found it really hard the only time you can really really work was with Amelia Bullmore on Scott and Bailey episodes were just said why do we like brilliant and I never and as you know when you have other people writing on your shows it just doesn't work.

It's really hard work or he's difficult or iPod you know if you have to rewrite the script script unpleasant for their money for you.

And the Amazing about Amelia was I just didn't want to and the wonderful wonderful but not something I would ask me do I love you Julia but yes it's it's because you know we we know how much every right to put into something then I think you'll find that's not good friend.

Is it Friday with new writers its own faeces pump of his power with Fawlty Towers and he's speak about other comedy writers.

He said they do not know what hard work it is.

Pegasus it is properly ours.

I just beyond description anyway.

I think you would have really really fascinating.

There is only a few dramas in the road was Mrs Pritchard the Museum of witches episode clip of Jayne hall and bunkers, when was kind of coal bunkers was truly box I loved it, but it was kindly it was like in what I would say you can a question or your next big idea.

I didn't feel like that if it were reaching for conkers trying to make another braithwaites.

I think I wanted to try and capture the similar audience and create something with a similar feel to it, and it just didn't work it really didn't work people just didn't get what was going on except the Audience Club

Pictures because that didn't get good reviews and got slightly better aliens, but I was really proud of that.

I couldn't have worked harder than that is hard when things are working hard at work so hard on that so I think probably harder than anything ever worked until I thought research and I'm so proud of you might be a bit.

I was about a woman was prime minister before roundabout this time when both came out you hit a very difficult paths in your life and then your career which is the is the bonk of an Adams Apple iPads detail bunkers you to play Jarvis properly legal each other are faced with a claim of plagiarism.

I won't even give that oxygen because it's clearly you're short of ideas and I did see your backstage go to my bag.

If you go around is festival pitching a cartoon about a guitar cuts fucking back from Sally and Russell in just a moment, but let's hear a little clip first of this week's Media Masters with Paul Blanchard this is the broadcaster an interviewer Matthew stadlen how you may remember he used to do those brilliant five minutes with interviews on the BBC news channel is Matthew and had a conversation once with one of the commissioning editor The Telegraph she said I want to know I want more of Matt in there.

I want to know what does Matt stadlen think about that person and I found out quite challenging and I sometimes found it challenging because if you have had a very intimate conversation with someone for an hour an hour and a half past even longer and you broadly speaking get on with them and anyway there a human being then to step out of that room when you've had a very enjoyable experience and be directly critical.

Of them of Empires and negative view on them.

I found quite tricky that was Matthew stadlen there and you can hear all of Paul's brilliant Media Masters interviews for free at Media Masters.

FM what you can subscribe to the media Focus podcast wherever you get your podcast definition of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., to learn more BBC sounds ancient ancestors listening apparently.

That's the sound of a rainforest whatever that is in the year 2017.

Animals or insects so if we don't have two things anymore what on earth did he do Forest 404 a brand new drama podcast starring pearl Mackie solicitor Forest 404 first download the free BBC Sounds app for splitting if you lift your credit at the next drama coming on his unforgiven Suranne Jones stands and Horses are used to live a more powerful.

Did literally come out what I went through them because it did make me think what is it like to be on the wrong side of the law which weirdly I found myself on the wrong side of the law and I've no idea that put Samsung you can see anybody for anything absolutely anything if you find yourself having to defend herself you have to defend itself you can't.

None of the problems after but it did I put my work has got a darker since then I think the prior to that happened to meet with I thought I was chiefly comedy writer who wrote comedy and I think that week because I'm kinda glad you're happy that I am now a lot of money after it's fantastic.

Hahaha laugh when you look at unforgiven not the first time you went to focusing on one person that was really Suranne Jones a story and deliver it was that im saying I'm going to write differently now.

I'm going out.

The destruction of giving I thought was what was exciting was that it was about 3 different groups people but it was about.

Group speaker and it was about how they all came together at the end of how you realise by the end of episode 1 with the word for separate groups.

They were all very interconnected and roof was just said Central at 4, get some coming out of the the bonkers nonsense good writing it did it for yourself.

yes, I mean it but I don't think I think I've added conscious limit I can actually because I did think about what is it like to go wrong side of the law that I don't know because if I have a coffin diversion at which is the things that used to be raining musical is your next in Unforgiven I love Siobhan Finneran thought that was a ghost because she has mentioned to me that this Last Tango in Halifax coming up the Christmas as kind of fascinator by Anna supernatural knocking at the edges of your work and I'm at the last week and I think you were busy for the real world tickets and I mean that the highest common really like these brilliant huge river characters big epic stories intimates stories and like Dickens Heath

Supernatural call in the window.

I remember I got that from you that idea that you can put this kind of little bits of other world and seeing it was on at series of children's ward about the transport heart transplant the boy who died who got a pain in his bed now because I'm talking about that and you have a serious straightforward drama and you know it so stayed with me think if you can please strange little bits of between an under contract with your apps realism I think when Dickens Dickens write about the dispossessed of the poison any person running weather for and the wretched and when he then wrote a ghost story you read a ghost.

How good is replacing the Bible as the Christmas story is a little Christmas Carol is becoming a Christmas Carol on the most powerful than ever and won't go story Caroline is an idea but Caroline Christopher musical is Caroline's haunted by the past in in Last Tango Catherine's Road dentist in your work there goes to the edge crack out Catherine which one.

Real but it's nice to see you.

I don't know where it is.

I think one of the greats of them all because because what are the green made pieces of televisions, what kind of it in my mind up to take over Robin Hood and we will get the black moon was it called The Ballad of black mermaid television television want to see the series fantasy shows they still rolling out there still all about everything and you would you done a female robin hood Robin Hood was going to become a kind of talking bloke who was very bright and the power behind him was this.

Interested and Sian Eleri Jones from BBC Wales series of 13 storyline, where are you all want to see that I want to see that we did that for Robin Hood when things don't happen that you're probably come back at the right time yeah.

Yeah, maybe it wasn't the right time when I mean if I have them that if you had gone off never written Scott and Bailey probably not written at a time when he comes back my pictures that you didn't are you so they said said said how much she went on to Scott and Bailey and

You said how much you love discovering crime and what's story of crime is that didn't even got happy Valley said I wish I could discover that it's I can't I can't get on with myself for sale on never having written a cocktail but then I was lucky that im at Diane Taylor who was the consultants on Scott and Bailey and Ms Ashley I didn't meet with an eye to write in a cocktail incidental.

It's around wanted to use invented Scott and Bailey and then and Nicola can I need to ask me to do it and I had to constantly late Dion Taylor just in a completely going to Lanzarote in a way that it was talking to that who is it detective detective detective inspector with Greater Manchester MIT she did deal with murders all the time and it was just so fascinating talking to because I've never seen that all these, they have never seen watch.

About so many of our police procedurals are based on American model and our system is just how bad, season stupid, Stanstead Abbott cracker.

I think Jimmy you get a bit crackers, but I think it was a much more conversations by Don Diablo talking about the Moors murderers and I was doing some research about Myra Hindley at the time and I wanted to ask her what made somebody.

Capable of doing things like that, what have they got that may be capable of doing that and she had this fantastic answer was but it isn't what we've got its what they haven't got it spit the something in the brain that doesn't tell them that you shouldn't really be doing that I suspect it.

So you don't consummate was the people who do things like predominantly.

Where's your baby? I think it's a pile of the in Scotland with cupcake the Dead lesbian on our way tell me where is roster.

Women who work with just took me all day, but it's like your men.

Will you would you write a series with a man as a lead character could do it is a serious because of David Braithwaite until the last tango Christmas special of detritus is a billion and Robbie and Robbie splat beginning and I was conscious of thinking that im writing a really good part and it's about a man is Batman's son a brilliant weekend.

It is likely to perform at last series of happy Valley if you don't come in.

And lightning trying his best not to do as I kinda want to text you because I can't be detected but your man I would watch that I could be brilliant.

So beautiful Wood coat hangers last angle comes along which is kinda lame famously based on experience of your mum get together with that was such a success Academy Little period of your career wear a bit of controversy killed off in series 3 and the first time.

We got lot of flak for happy Valley for the violence in that was the first time being attacked.

You were quite vociferously Attax cakes.

It was a shock.

I didn't realise how attached.

The audience of the come to that relationship and two little characters in Lancashire it was touch you know it was tough to watch it might be one of my least favourite things whoever wrote this stage and I know I can take him to pick up of different kind of having an off state death and I know I think it's really unfortunately.

I think you will slide into a world where of those Lisburn deaths which have extraordinary number for Musgrove Jackie Lawrence to compile statistics of there being a lesbian characters being killed off limits of the carolinas alive at the heart of the drums and she's a lesbian as well when you get back.

I find it hard and Harry Bassett it.

I think I didn't you stay.

I wish I had found a better story.

Inside by the same people saying this but the main Story characters, it was a fantastic source of Caroline and told you do that stole.

It's even know what you do is no my god.

That's gonna be trouble I am I picking myself, but would you get in trouble because I was like on the Christmas thinking I'm not sure this is the right thing to do and other people were you know what's a good story.

He was a drone and what prize at the same time as Aprilia don't worry afterwards that you've been a bit.

You could have worked harder.

You will know it was a lazy choices anything.

Wouldn't be gone now.

When did sisters heading towards literally Sally in my life.

My life is strong together of great dramas and his dad with rock Follies in Pensnett when I saw this and then cracker and Prime Suspect and then and then then is happy Valley actually, I'm glad to be alive during the transmission of happy Valley how much would not everyone is sitting there thinking of it's my duty to ask what news on Sirius III is it happened, but it'll be a little while singing we're getting puppy to use got some good ideas for that was for me that was one of the most.

I felt that same feeling that I felt as a 13-year-old watch rock Follies latest Angela excitement Ronnie Wood final of arthritis in the oldest people in their the happy Valley you started directing which you'd always wanted to do and you'll never comes to do I have to do it.

I don't you should I know it's the thought of turning up in the morning and I was 60 sweaty ostriches asking you what to do because I get enough of that my social life, but seriously actually telling other people 9 a.m.

Off.

You know that I'm not waiting for someone with it when that's what struck me as one of many things that struck me when you've been there everybody knows what they're doing and switch off.

When it's delightful, it's really exciting as hard.

If not harder.

It's hard in a different way of is badly next finally it's done to your dreams.

What is it? Is it is alive and well, I was asked to write a biopic about the Brontes because it's Charlotte Bronte bicentenary that this year and I think about 5 years ago the BBC asked me to do this and it's been going to do it but finally did before we are now time for 2016 certificates at the last three years when he will still alive when did old been away doing different things but they're all back at home in 1845.

Very dysfunctional reason something like that for dysfunctional family when he was the Bronte so it's looking at that that last 3 years so it's about the whole life, but it's concentrate in the last 3 years with an eventful.

I don't have to invent anything the structure.

It was alright Father Christmas listen.

I have loved it again doing this over 15 word from the floor and so I can send a letter and has anyone got a question for daily Sally Wainwright anybody are you talking about a boy picking up things from being in a rider from the soaps and watching other writers told me the writers producers.

I was just wondering if you can even say what's the best piece of advice.

You never been given the best pieces of advice is want to mention that he would give me about do it right the first episode of a new series like the third episode because you hit the

You're coming into where the action is still coming to other stories another thing Aaron Paul Abbott one's telling me that really struck me when we were writing children's walked around me up in 7 seconds with the script and says it's obvious that you've not written the first thing that's going to head of the second thing other things as you've written 7th thing that's coming to your head which is true.

You know you do I think that's really good piece of advice as you've just think really hard about the perfect way of saying something.

Taxi the jealous of Henry Hoovers anybody myself a bit more about directing what advice would you give to someone who's willing to be self-taught rather than you going off to do an ma directing at me for I think it's gonna do it.

You just got to get on with that you've got to get yourself into a situation where you can just start making mistakes at lamma what I did when I was at university was started directing players there.

Are you now to find people anywhere who were interested in drama and direct them? You just find opportunities for yourself.

You just got to do it.

I think the only way to learn to direct us to actually do it is from slight right in the community.

Just got to do it you want to be upsetting when you were starting on at the braithwaites and stuff like that was feeling sad and Culture

Culture than of the writer been excluded or upset with a reminder about the latest are you have forgot anyway, but I think the problem there is that you get to be on settee to get to do that as well.

I think the cultures church.

I think they're more like you and egg.

Xx one clue actively encourage the writer to be not to mention, but I think there was one of a culture of the right of them get their drop off now.

Have a laugh Newton Abbot Direct someone else's.

But it looks ok.

Thank you as a question of the day as well.

We talk to me about your part of your kind of things are working at the moment.

It's taking a longer-term view.

What do you what do you think about the future of television wood invited like you and your wife is coming up have the same creative freedoms.

Are you optimistic about the future of television in this in this country and and say globally as well as many opportunities as we had like when we were Granada I think you and very privileged place that I've never quite experienced before how do I don't know who they say anything like that around.

No it said you know what someone said to be missing a lot of mental habits cave in my head is hurting and the Beast

Taxis canning on Pointe with that it's I think this opportunity.

I don't know how do you help you know I was in a meeting mental by Paul Abbott's and you would have been ok will let me like a dick head seized upon us.

Do you try and pay that back to you? I do whatever I can't be possible to mentor the afternoon as a couple of students who were doing like an Enderman very different to what it was like with like hauling cable sure they're doing the job yet each other in meetings and organic process responded to what we were doing and it was now people writing courses have had that you need eating once every six months in a coffee shop and it's it's it's hard to the input what you doing.

Are you doing it doesn't feel I don't feel like I've ever been able to do to someone else what they did to me.

It's not a reason that.

Been apart of an organic process.

I just want to let you know what do you think of the American writers room system what you think that is like a training ground almost help people to experience writing first draught least I don't really know I've never I've never been party to the American it sounds great.

I don't know that we could have a doing this cos I don't know we can afford to do things like that was funny cos everytime system for 60 years the number one programme in British television death in Coronation Street what is run by a team of writers, but most people wanted so it doesn't it does exist as it's very successfully of Family Guy does work.

I promise it's questions that person about there.

What's your favourite Sidcup and what type of acid comes do you like my favourite sitcom family is that a sitcom was Jackie Jackie I would say that in a minute.

If that's why I like it's very funny couple more questions about the man over there and then we'll do that person.

They're dumb enough to end it.

I think location you very good capturing a certain pride of Britain deactivating things that are allocated someone else then do the North

An international location location is really this issue, but I do think it's important.

I think whatever you choose to set something if you can make it part of the Fabric of the show so it's not it's not I hate it's like generic America and South of England as I can give you can make it very specifically rooted in very particular part of the world it adds to the realism anything anyway.

You've talked a lot about kind of just link between genres and territories like you went from kind of situational dramas to the new avoiding cop dramas, and then you went into that is there a territory that you're scared of what you think you you haven't depicted yet that you want to throw yourself into this musical things.

Scared of that will I can't wait for that says thank you to ask Nicola shindler for we barely mentioned was a huge part of our lives as a producer of the best thing about you've got to be a game with her.

She makes me work better and hard because she is the best.

I then asked because you're the worst thing about being held to go to be the topic of this paper introduces the best others and she adores you and everyone adores you work a little the finest writing a thank you for doing well.

That's it from this bonus edition of the programme.

Thanks against the TV Festival for sharing this session with the media podcast if you're wondering where to go next at maybe again recommend Media Masters

This week with Matthew stadlen, that's a media Masters.

FF I'm only man the producer is Matt Hill the media podcast is a PPM production till next time.

Potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud.

Come to learn more.