Read this: BONUS: how influencer marketing works

Hello and welcome to this bonus edition of the media podcast brought to you this week by social circle today on the pod we consider the world of influences that particular School of Marketing with pay celebrities to endorse products has been given a boost thanks to Twitter feeds and YouTube Stars over the next day.

I will lift the lid on this industry with a panel of marketing gurus and their brand in Dorset you hear from criss-cross on from Corus James Erskine director of social circle Chris Jackson social Lead of the supergroup Mark Walker appellant company free focused and Connie Glynn aka, YouTube starting noodlerella, let's stuck in the chair is Olivia Allen break the ice first questions we go straight to Jane what's your favourite influencer campaign that you've worked on that wasn't yours?

So I've seen two examples of influencer campaigns recently that can't blow my mind about one was exceptional in its simplicity there is an American band called boxed water which is kind of an unethical or water Brand and Bray simply what they did was they passed a load of instagrammers and a load of Pinterest influencers read influencers who doesn't make you sick but there we are set up influences and instagrammers would tasked with taking a picture single image or finding a single image that made nice you look Wonderful and they retweeted it with a simple #that cedri tree and as a result boxed water company in the States with them plant two trees for every single image that was posted.

So it is an organic feel good story they then sent the same influences to the forests where those trees have been replanted and it added content.

You kind of got that content cycle or learning issues around box water but more naturally the environment.

So it is a really nice one and then the other one I saw towards the end of last year was British Airways direct debit from pot British Airways called that innovation lab, and what they did was they put a load of inferences opinion formers and creators on a plane that left Silicon Valley and flu in a great big circle for 5 hours and they asked all of the people on the plane to collaborate and as a result some of the collaborations they selected five when they got back and 5 of those different collaborations.

They've move forward with the Business Ventures or campaigns, so really nice actually using the collaborations between opinion formers and say that two examples that breast crispy.

I've just got one being the L'Oreal yours truly campaign for the I think it was true match or something they launch.

23 shades of different kind of tones for different skin colour and tone colour and they say they worked with 23 influences and under that was a concert YouTube and Instagram are they launched their digital campaign with Cheryl Cole online and then continued that momentum on digital with the influence campaign it just came across as very genuine a real people kind of talking about makeup rather than can of superstars and then what followed at campaign was then the TV series so just nice to sort of Cedar, shift and being waited a bit more towards digital.

Great, thank you Mark a bit one of the ones that I was kinda jealous to not have all of our clients work and I was also one that I didn't like as well.

I like the idea.

It was the Coke TV campaign they did with O D I think engaging are created for a whole year and has a set number of videos and actually having some continuity going on at that was something I was really impressed to see them do but then I thought the actual content itself is quite easy and I didn't like the whole product placement away though.

They have like dodie stood round drinking a bottle coat.

Really obviously just they could have done a lot of it.

I'd love to see that kind of campaign with it using a digital influencer, but more like the Nike fk2 excess campaigners all over London at the moment and so did your tongue out she getting some exposure outside of the screen as well, but then in return the brands get exposure to their fans.

That's that's kind of a good marry those two up together.

Cola campaigns and to get rich and one that really kind of stood out for me as I spend some time in San Francisco and there's an app called the outbound collective and a century this provides you with guides on hikes and trails and trips that you can do across the US and so what the outbound did they sent you got a range of influences and every day.

They get their their different influences going out across the US and going in taking these different heights and trips and so using like Instagram stories to send you show people visually what's happening so whenever you log onto Instagram page will send you going to be kind of Transport it to Somewhere across the us as someone just having a road trip and basically talking you through their experience and this is just something which is so cheap and if people are so passionate about doing it and like always like the opportunity get on the channel people just hungry to do it into can share their experience.

That's really lovely don't know that example and Connie finally actually have to say it's one of my own one.

Yeah, it was Carrie Hope Fletcher did it as well and it was the troll.

Campaign so both of us went to voice characters and it was so natural for us to go through a lot of voice work a lot of people come to our channel looking like her stuff.

I just it was so natural soap and they just got me to block the experience of voicing his character, so is the kind of content people expect anyway.

Yeah, and it worked really well and will certainly what's your worst example of a campaign doesn't have to be yours.

Ok? Yeah, I'm not going to look after him and there's no one in particular that I would choose it's any campaign where they try and hide the fact it's an advertisement for something because as soon as you're trying to hide it.

I mean are viewers aren't stupid.

They know it's an advert.

They're gonna think that you don't have faith in the product which means everybody loses out.

Maigret Mark you have the Coke one kind of grated on me babe, but I guess one of our book bears James probably agree with me James series Eyes by the amount of approach you get from mobile apps and there's only so many videos you can do where you're on here for a mobile.

Apps.

They start to get a bit tired.

What is if we all have mixed emotions on best themes for example a great to work with because they've got a lot of money which is also with them.

They give you the freedom to just do what you want on your channel as long as they are messaging is is incorporated in there, but they would never had like a a video of return from them where they wanted changes everything's been signed off straight away.

It means the best things is everywhere which means everyone is playing it because everybody knows about it, so I feel like a does one.

Well, then we have some crazy refused to work with them because every other creators working with them so kind of

Chris Jackson what's your worst joke with you in front of One stick at the post and it's gone again.

It's like what's the point like this is is about relationships about keeping people engage and there's no authenticity so basically any campaign where you see a brand work with implants once it's gone is pretty much.

Can I get to red cross with me, so I will name names and I'll Ally flag of some of our I'm actually so around 6.

Maybe 7 years ago when we were first untapping this influence of space and looking at the effectiveness.

We are the reason why most YouTubers at one stage to another pair of said how you get a free 30-day trial of the audible service so that's our fault.

Sorry and it started and it worked incredibly well and it was incredibly effect.

It was beating their traditional Media just as an example Absolute Radio delivered 3312 in a month and I YouTuber activity delivered 1512 and a month so everything was Rose in everything was brilliant.

I'll never forget the post under a fleurdeforce video that said and I quote if I see another YouTuber talking about Audible I'm going to blow my brains out now saturation of the market doesn't come close and the saturation part isn't all of our fault because people were saying it from America people are saying it from other agencies.

There was an absolute rush to jump on board the audible then affiliate scheme so the key lessons there was saturation market we actually lines are there strategy to find some stuff a big influence every month small influence that every month and a niche implements of every month so there was kind of a solution that but yeah, so that point about mobile apps when you do see it on over YouTube channel.

It gets a little bit darling, so yeah and finally follow-on from James Davies, example that did the rounds in our team with than Cortana and Clean Bandit and it was a sort of Cortana is Microsoft's answer to Siri and it was a Clean Bandit band that you might have heard of it was like genuine content that was them kind of like having banter with the with the admin and kind of just hanging out in the living room, but it was just a just show the very fine line between authentic influencer content and something that is very contrived and and doesn't really hit the market all the carnival to be quite honest about one of our own campaigns and I won't name the client but basically we create a piece of content with an influencer that.

Wincanton so many legal issues and other brands being visible in this piece of content that we ended up having to sort of sensor so much stuff that it ended up looking like some kind of soft porn kind of weird everything's blurred out.

It was just you know it.

We just a look we got appointment.

It's unusable.

We don't want to use anymore, but it does raise an interesting point which we can probably go on to talk about which is working with brands legalities and you know how long of content is very different to a and TVC or digital video that goes out and needs to be kicked off by legal departments effective you find your client get quite possessive about other brands being mentioned in videos and things.

I think it depends on that conversation and that education piece probably from.

The media agency side with the marketing teams that we work with because those marketing teams are up to speed on the sort of the new ground that we're working in but the legal teams.

I think a lot more traditional especially because they lawyers their necks effectively on the line.

If something is flagged and there is a complaint so I think there's still a lot of murky space there.

I think my ISA rules a very clear, but I think I'm if anyone ever done any IPA legal training with law firms what I found in this was just a year ago.

They great a given you the law and the examples for print and TV and digital but when it comes to social they don't have any examples of the laws, it's all different and that makes it problematic.

We're just in terms of that competitive brand in their soft porn phasing out things we had a really interesting example last summer and we were working on a campaign for soap And Glory the cosmetic brands with an American influencer.

We were right across the summer across three different video pieces of content and some other bits and pieces and soap And Glory I didn't know this before I started working on the brand is owned by the Walgreens boots alliance in the States and so when Andrea russett I'll leave him to insert was talking about the products purely declares so the products that she was recommending that she would look to get herself festival ready.

She also said after a festival she likes to relax with a candle scented candle and the scented candle was from target to target or a direct competitor of Walgreens again.

You might not know that certainly most beauties want have known that so it was a really tough when I saw it from the influences.

Going to be none of my audience for know that soap And Glory is an I completely so it from The Browns point of view that will bring that it's then paying for it.

So there's there's often murky Waters protectli with ownership structures a big call Brett Associates the top of a kind of brand perspective the way you we can have treated as you can look at things on a scale like if this is a big campaign which is happening then you want to probably come control the message in the products within that but a lot of almost like the day today evergreen stuff like I'd prefer not to gonna get hung up on what they can and can't use like ideally if we've done this while they should products should be front and Center but as a boat and then have more of a discussion about the creative less about what they can't use because if they want to use trainers or whatever that they're working out in day today, then they should do they feel comfortable and it vs.

Like for spinning every piece of Superdry in their ask you guys what you feel that because I was the everyone on this panel comes from a different part of organising an influencer campaign and I want to ask you guys.

What you feel your value is obviously quite self-explanatory, but yeah, I have a really good relationship with my viewers does low Trust already there, so they're going to have anything that I say is good as you've got my entire audience at the Middleman between Connie and Navy agency of the Brandon do the negotiations for her free up an essentially free of times if she can concentrate on creating content or writing books audit projects.

She wants to be doing but also I think for a creative they sometimes need someone who can be the bad cop as well, so if they're not into something they're not having to say directly to the brand.

I don't want to do it.

They can have someone else you can be the Voice of Reason they do it for them yet, so I guess that's our main role that you've mentioned with a bit different to lock the other agencies that manage Talent we both myself and James come from more traditional background sum from more than music industry side of.

James TV and radio show all the guys we work with people who want to do stuff beyond Youtube so that's our main focus with three Focus is to go out and find a soft UNIS like getting penguin book deals or you've got people on BBC Three and BBC one excetera, but we realise the value of the brand deals and them the money they can bring it in can refund the other projects that are the normal can a passion projects as well make sure the brand is front and Centre and we get the most kind of value for Superdry and then the other part of me is like we're going to be working these people day today and kind of really understanding that like an influencer isn't just impressions and reach and engagement but actually like these people have careers.

They have aspirations and for me.

It's about building relationships and long-term relationships with people so on the one hand we want to be.

Water cannot get the best possible return for a company but equally known that actually kinda structures in the right way that we can have a longer term relationship with people and really kind of Foster collaborations are always can always balancing that kind of that kind of negotiation between two parties.

So it's a bit of a weirdo Ms social circles because we can't do two different jobs, so I suppose the first thing is to explain the value of a specialist agency, so there's there's that element of that won't be the most obvious Talent partnerships in the world and we we work with every agent we work with lots of Talent Direct our databases about 5060 thousand strong, so there's that element of finding the talent.

There's also the fact that we are wonderful people on the team like Becky is sat behind Olivia so we have learnt Earth liaison, and Becky's a YouTuber has self so we like to think we have a better understanding of the space many other side of social circle is the platform soap.

It's database, but it's also an Analytics tools so we can monitor what activity is working hardest for our clients, so that's kind of what we add.

We know are shit and we can analyse it and I think from a media agency perspective as obviously the kind of heavy lifting contracts negotiations that we words with d on behalf of our clients and also make sure that we are breathing out the the market so that we're getting the best deals in the best Talent I think that's important.

I think we obviously of Representatives of our clients and these guys are more representative of the Talent and and we can go back as mediators to come and try and make that process as soon as possible because there is a lot involved in the background.

You know to get a great piece of video from you know.

Alan say there's all of that and then also I'd say we do a lot of the so obviously the town and very creative but we try and do as much kind of creative, directions strategy around why we are working with who were working how it kind of ladders up into an overall strategy for that brand whether that's a campaign basis or for the years objectives.

So you know we're not just kind of throwing out a budget and saying ok great.

We got really good engagement.

So how does that actually have a direct impact on where we trying to get the the Brandon the client to also think with with agencies both.

Will they be specialist agencies a wider agency groups really nice to have a big understanding of how the influencer activity so the Creator piece fits in with the much wider strategy.

So even if it isn't obvious so even if the YouTube content isn't on.

TVR on the side of a bus it's what is happening now and how does it fit into there's definitely a value that attended with me and breakfast by an influencer marketing platform that they hosted strangely with a piece of IT company agency present company and the moral of their breakfast was that they think that brand should work directly influences and there shouldn't be any agencies involved in the process may be interested to get your opinion on that as someone that works for a brand, if you see if you see the value in agencies being involved in the process.

Yeah, it made it likely definitely have a role.

I think the thing for me is from work me different agencies over the last couple of years is it just sometimes people kind of take the easy option like the amount of times.

I see the same names presented to us.

It's just a bit tiresome and not like we're not working when we want to partner with an agency to find new Talent not existing town.

So they definitely have a role in there and everything.

On the camera negotiation, I just making it as streamlined as possible like we recently worked on a campaign last year and it just took a lot of time to baste you get everything signed and sealed and by the time we got everything done like you.

Don't we done was nearly missed the boat and then you don't have enough time to kind of plan schedule the contents only just understanding both parking making sure it's his kind of quick and as easy as possible and understanding as a current business need their potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built it's like a seat on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud.

Come to

Write Mark so obvious, you're going up to opportunities coming in bands and doing some kind of outbound yourself when you evaluate an opportunity for 130 Norfolk Ronnie how do you find the difference between editorial and advertorial content so do you say yes much free stuff on your talent behalf? I've never sign off on anything on their behalf of that check with them first, but is yet waiting up the value of of what they're getting so one of the things.

I love to know that our influences all be up for doing where is maybe not payment is if there's a trip involves so if it's going to Pixar for example for a week in San Francisco and there's lots of value then Becky and Connie both went on that one though.

They're quite happy to do that further out of because they're getting there but even that said only up to a certain level of got that when you get rid of Emma Blackery

1.3 million now, she's a bit more gonna pick you ever what should I do when she knows she knows her reach as well and stuff is waiting outside of it up.

I'll see the trolls the trolls example with DreamWorks that that was paid for it was an advert.

We took a lower fee them then we would usually do because he wants to get into voice acting and now she can say she's in her Oscar nominated film excetera.

So this is waiting for that value of it there, but then get some things make only sometimes disagree on is The Mall PR side of it so horny dudes 6 weeks of writing a column for maximum pop and I felt that was something good for Connie to do because it was getting exposure to potentially new already, but that's more press orientated.

So whether it's right to confe maximum passport or doing something with a magazine etc a lot of time YouTubers don't look at it the same way as a musician and actor would do what they're actually getting PR4 for the

Singer trying to promote Connie's initial reaction was for what am I going to get out of it.

They gonna get more people from me tweeting about this article then.

I'm going to get seeing it from their organic reach in and she was writing that respect but it's the same with the the Made For You campaign that YouTube did just before Christmas with Emma Blackery on that no payment involved, but there was this huge campaign that in honestly didn't drive it any extra subscribers to Emma's channel.

I don't think we didn't see any kind of an increase in growth of necrosis can of the same as it has been a year but what it did mean is when I was picking her for a record deals or for a book deals excetera.

It's only two people.

I was speaking to you want is ingrained in this seeing as we are knew who she was because I've seen her on the Tube on the way you know you've seen a bus lane on Oxford Street and stuff says it's waiting up that value being a free to everyone else feel like they get asked a lot of free stuff still or people kind of coming to terms with fees your are moon.

I think those days at of Long Gone I think I don't think we would ever what but we never offer that as as an option really because you know you're getting great content for one thing and that isn't three you know I think it's another part of a marketing budget that teams are now seen as very much a part of this strategy rather just an add on' and yeah, I mean I just want to say I'm kind of working with tank although they're obviously like humans and and people in and sometimes a sceptical view of it could just be it's it's something in the room talking to a camera that is actually a very difficult thing to do if anyone has tried to do it and make it interesting or appealing or engaging it doesn't actually happened overnight.

There's a lot of editing that goes with involved as well and I mean the way that we.

The way that I present Talent to our clients and it is really very much a partnership of tea brands.

It's not in a one person climb working with you know a human Deezer Deezer Deezer brands, that have built themselves up over the years they've got a lot of followers.

They've got pretty impressive Archos review and customer engagements.

You know that they are brands that you're working with and you know if you just look at Kearney she's got home but coming out you know that you know there's not just someone making videos.

There's a lot more to it.

So I think there's a lot more respect around that definitely the videos take time to make as well and the content producing so if you're doing something for free your essentially turning down Potente of a paid work or your own content as well.

Let you want to do in no no creator wants to bombard their channel with add after out after out.

So it's kind of prioritising which ones are going to be the best overall to do.

I'm definitely more open to doing things are free on my vlogging channel and simply because they're more experiences so for example again with Becky we went to Alton Towers and it was good Scarefest and that worked really well.

This is something that we would have done anyway, and I could just plug it and it's very natural so I don't mind there's one so much free content.

Chris get back to what you were just saying about people on expect me to free.

Do you feel like that your clients are coming to you asking to do influencers stuff or is it something that you're still pitching to that for them to do so yeah, I mean it's very much better, but I think depending on lots of factors like they're objectives the type of brand that they are if they wanna you know be a bit more personable bit more relevant and and human and a less scan of aspirational one and glossy.

I think I am and then other other times we we will take a look at the budget in the strategy and saying actually if we're going to do this for a certain amount of time the best use of that but it is to work with eczema of influences over 6 months I supposed to put in it all behind one campaign that will have a spike and then drop off we forgot about.

Another Crescent mean we all have stakeholders that we've got a convince to do this.

How do you convince your stakeholders that they should be working with influencers, so we can you free we can have the opposite problem like everyone in the company wants to do work with influencers and it's like they're just jumped on it whatever like you going to a meeting first thing like ok? What we can do with influence on it and it's kind of like managing expectations.

I think it's really interesting this panel discussion what happened today because like the kind of the role of influencers in terms of marketing.

Just seem to be almost like at it's peak and it almost feels like there's going to be that point in terms of the bubble will eventually burst because people have overinvested to appoint and actually people start to ask can of harder questions about what are we getting back for this so I love my job is it's kind of explain two people at War why do you want to work with an influencer actually when you get into it that you probably influenced.

It isn't right for it or isn't important to have someone who's got X100 owls indoor or millions.

It is one of the things I sort Superdry in terms of how we been using influencers today.

Is it when I joined we are only interested in basic getting people to Kinder talk about our product on their channels and then if you can flip back and looked at Superdry zone.

Social channels.

It like they weren't very good.

I answer you got this kind of disconnect between getting on like fabulous people and they're not really having the content on your own site to back it up, so actually now.

We've been saying we probably need to work with some smaller really cool content creators to tell a better story about a brand so that when we do work with these got a list as there is a counter strongest story there so yeah, we have an appetite and we're just gonna try and put it down and use it in the right way because otherwise I think people expect a lot and then it might not delivering the right way.

I think just jumping in sorry.

I think Christmas is an incredibly important point and that is that there's with every influencer marketing piece whether it's a single.

The single video a single Instagram post there are two different benefits and one is the reaching the scale of that social placement so reaching the audience but the other is the resulting authentic content so it might be that you get that.

Holy.

Holy grail of marrying the two perfectly in the right audience see the right piece of authentic content but actually if something has a small Rita Ora for piece of social content isn't that wide-reaching it still got a huge used for the brand dumb stuff.

I can retweet it and suddenly.

They can showcase that that small reaching influencer a real person has created that authentic content so yeah, it's it's about finding the right match definitely honey when you're working with the Brand and what kind of at the heart of what you're thinking you thinking about the audience.

Are you thinking about the brand or the audience always comes first because if I don't put the audience first and I'm making something that's just for this brand.

Then again, it's about the faith the audience housing me because they feel like I'm putting the product first.

They're going to think I don't actually have a lot of faith in it because it wouldn't match of my usual content so I have been doing this for 34 years so I do know what my audience wants to see I know what they like.

I know what they expect of me as well.

So when I say something won't work even if the brand is sure it will I do know better that's really interesting.

Sorry, love my place.

And Mark when you're kind of working on a brand deal with Cornelia you kind of whispering in her ear like you know as always anyone as an added value or kind of what's your take on things that you can go and buy what the brand of expecting are you? I think we we get everything on a car if I'd at the deal points are before any filming starts there anything we we discuss what the concepts going to be we get clear briefs from the from the agency or the brand with what exactly needs to be in and as long as everything's agreed in the first place than this shouldn't really be any issues moving forward and Connie's 100.

I don't really need to get any realise once the deal is agreed and she's happy with what needs to be in chill chill delivery at the others that might be a bit more fussy or might try and push the boundaries a little bit and after sometimes remind them of the deal points that have been agreed life you want this video to get approved in you want to get paid then need to think about this but know Connie's right is the talent know they're audience.

They know what's going to be like to not like to put it's it's my job to know that at the point in the gauche.

Gin in the first place, so I've got Lex Croucher we work with she just as a full time jobs as just have time to make it loads of changes to a videos and she's been up to this is for you can Skype politically charged so with all her brand deals she tends to do a script in before she even films in the things like a full script and that works for some people not for a Vespa again at least relax, then we know the brands happy with with the content before it even gets filmed in and out of Lloyds no to reshoot some things that is really good Negotiator I know it was going to but how great my manager it is but if there's something I really don't want to do we can offer instead an extra tweet or an extra Instagram post something like that.

Just to show the brand yeah, there is still this value even if you leave it there for you.

Happy kind of with giving added value in top of thing yeah, if it's specially if there's something they want me to do that.

I'm incredibly against but it was something they really thought was going to help if you offer a tweet or an extra to your ex Instagram post it kind of

It at work out for them something I notice reading yeah, I can collect campaigns with multiple influences.

Involved is that the client the brand or the agency tend to judge back and which influences they like the most based on added value that person was great irrelevant, how much they paid they did an extra and postcode if I'm enjoying if the brand is grey and we working well together.

It's very natural bell often be added value.

Anyway.

Yeah, I'll be tweeting about it.

Naturally two weeks later.

Just cuz I've enjoyed it so much and what's your take on that Money Giving extra then he I think again we get we get the Bare minimum kind of agreed in the deal so that there's no breach of contract, but what was the app that you did that you actually you play it all the time anyway and then you're so we just mobile games already playing anyway.

Content because all Connie's fans started screenshot in their own pack of pets and then she was retweet in the ones that she liked and things in that kind of interaction can work really well and give give me extra value side of it, but you are coming out the actual concept in the first place is 99% of the battle server that we work with you with Emma on the the Instax campaign and I was a perfect perfect timing for us.

We got the breathe through pretty month before MOT is due to go on tour and her first UK headline tour with a band and I think two of the six influences you looking to get one was travel.

When was music as a great we've got a musician going on tour we can come out for those for you and I was already planning on doing a tour diary blog of her time on tour on the road and All That Jazz and we had meeting Greece going on at the shows so we're able to get extra content to Instax in terms of they sent us in a film so that every fan.

Who did a meet and greet could take a picture a way that was taken on the camera and you just a nice thick as a tour diary documented the tool that also.

Documenting it with these Instax camera at the same time see if you get the actual idea right in the first place than the best way to move forward and questions tune a bit James let's out with you what learning can the influencer marketing space take or learn from other more traditional media are we seeing a level of maturity in the market? I think we're starting sea level of maturity in the marketplace.

Yes, there are specialist agencies like I was there a people that know what they're talking about their own people saying will you do a video for free if we give you a free fridge that happens less.

You know what I mean.

Not a real world example.

I think in terms of offer the mattress that you two different mattress companies last month for show off their older glamour work can we are learning is all over the place? So because I know has Rowling have a good time on Monday night.

I was at a media Society

Event about the dying of print so that was rock and roll and their conclusions there with that alright newspapers are the printed word in newspapers is dying but magazines are actually having something of a Renaissance because magazines have learnt how to service niche audiences and they've learnt how to diversify so the learnings there with influencers are which audience EU servicing brilliantly in terms of how you're working with them and what else could you do so and influences already starting to do that we work with gaming influencers.

We work with specific niches and they're also looking to diversify across events and other revenue streams, but then that awful Media turn of phrase the key learnings from radio Radio 4 years and years in the commercial radio space was always known as the 7% medium.

It could not get any more of ad revenue than 7% so it looked hard of itself and it learnt old language to deliver sponsorship and promote.

Now branded content in really effective ways and guess what the revenues grown.

It's now a 10 or 11% medium.

I'm sure crystal put me right Whitfield got the wrong thing over and something like that now.

We are so so what the key learning there is that Radio is turned in on itself and it's look to deliver more meaning meaningful connections with its audience dumb stuff if a presenter saying something school then people will believe it and that's happening in influence space more authentic content and then the other looking at it from a macro level is a maturity of practitioners within the business what I mean by that is you get businesses that last week or a viral distribution network and this week's suddenly there an influencer marketing specialist you get PR agencies that take make one appointment and they stick them at the front of the queue and suddenly.

They got an influencer marketing division is the same team implementing it so there has to be a maturity.

Neither has to be a level of expertise because guess what it's quite a lot of money to work on a really effective and it and influential marketing campaign so you can't just have people that are suddenly changed me ideas of what it is.

They do for a living everyday.

So yeah, that's the kind of key learnings in the parallels with the other parts of the media and marketing mix honey in Pets that I mean for me that the majority of the market now is probably accountability and measurement of success, what does 100000 fuse actually mean you know we measure on top of that sort of a metric and the level of conversation around the video of the Brand and the sentiment of that conversation because obviously and increasing positive sentiment journalists.

More and positive brand affinity and therefore you would expect that to lead onto later acquisition and sale so mean that's the kind of model but it's still kind of a bit a hypothetical and I think you know what we're all, guilty of making it look good but actually maybe we need to in the ways in which.

Other types of Media have managed that analysis of the acquisition stage in and or even just brand uplift really and that's maybe a conversation that media agencies need to have with YouTube and Cena how are we actually and measuring this and how can we report that this video that cost this amount of money? I'm actually led to this much brand uplift some say and that would be the one for me.

Yes, I think if I was you guys.

I take a real look at the outdoor space in the US if you want a things I learnt when I was working in California with GoPro it's like the power of Archie just having an ambassador network as opposed to think you've influences is almost like this singular kind of entity actually if you work on a smart and you build a team of Ambassadors that you have on retainer for the course of so many man so because the year then you can actually get some really good content, can I set stipulations in terms of like videos of photos on a monthly basis and then it works a lot more effectively Padukone you have a really nice model.

They have quite a broad athlete and ambassador team that they work where there are obviously kitted out in their Gear and then essentially these guys will sending their photos of them out or their videos doing stuff and then if I if Paragon you want to use it though, so kind of pastry give them in agreed rate for the kind of the photo use on a social channels or if they're gonna use an email Marketing Amazon

Works really well for that.

I'm in there.

Also is quite smart as well.

I'd like asking people like when they're sending in a photo like give us three different captions.

So then you've got three different stories that you can think the kind of tell about a particular image of I suppose it's been kind of stuff with one image in light not really sure what kind of fish so you're definitely if you get chance like to me like coming in and seeing the fashion industry can pisses me off.

It's a bit boring to be honest.

You seen people hold up a cardigan and talk about how soft and fluffy as I could not give a shit about that.

I am tell me the story show me something interesting show me that you are personality and then I think that's going to be a much more interesting because otherwise it's just I don't know people start to switch off because they see it day in day out you feel that you're sharing what kind of work that are naturally integrating a project product into your video or more like a show and tell definitely naturally integrating.

I can't remember the last time.

I did as sort of show and tell video it's been so long, but yeah, you're

A lot more if you wear something and just saying the sketch about his outfit is from here will having it as your top comment if you're wondering where my outfit is from and then you're wearing Instagram photos etc.

That works so well at social circle.

We have a list of the 7 things that make you scream when running an influencer marketing campaign what is one thing that makes each of you pour your heart out with you can't even work.

Yeah, the thing that annoys me the most and I'm sure it's probably annoys you the most is when you are asked to remove something that wasn't mentioned in the brief a brand should just because we give you give them so much time to plan the perfect breathe have everything that I should st.

Everything out so we should not say and then to suddenly come back as they are actually can you say this it's much harder adding content than it is to remove content so if you need something said you have to put it in.

Brittyy44 hand otherwise, it's not happening.

How to pick just one I think and I get why we get as this please when you get that initial email through and it's what's your rate and it's like when you give us a bit more info on what the project is what you looking to achieve and we can look at evaluate not just the reach that the guys have but how much work can have to go into it, so we always have I like kind of rack rate card, where we we have in our mind looking to get based on the reach the guys but everything is such that case by case basis that would much rather discuss in more detail what you looking for in things that that's what about and getting asked for the record over and over again by the same agency as well.

We're always like I just save it for me is the first question I should be a creative discussion first and then you work out what's achievable if it could if you could start on that basis that would become a stronger place2be.

I'll go with another lack of.

How does one argue with this right so we're working without a young YouTuber who is 10 years of age? Why won't now and he his agent is his father, so we're chasing him to meet a deadline that his father has signed off on a contract and the conversation that you get back is what he's got to do his homework and then he can look at the video.

Where do you go? You can't say my brand deals more important than his homework in his education.

How does that work? So that's kind of fun very kind of a particular frustration.

I think if you like a more professional one and a and a broader one is a lack of understanding on if you like questioning the brief so exactly to Chris's point earlier.

Why do you want to work with influencers? What are you looking for because they won't might be many different approaches to work with an employment.

So there might be many different influences so a lack of understanding on why infants.

Acting is right for me.

It would probably be the legal issue touch on at the start and how legal teams can really kill creative just by cutting and slicing up until you're left with something that they could have just paid a creative agency to do and put out you know that's not what we trying to achieve here where it's more of a organic Grande piece of content that has that authenticity in and got a real nice about it and with that comes a bit of rough around the edges.

I guess so there would be that one I get than the other one.

I was thinking about was kind of working with managers at sea but in the sense that when you get a brief signed off and it's very clear what you want to do, but then you so sad, so how's the video going to look and no response might be what is like kind of freestyler and I don't worry.

It's going to look great.

They know they're already.

Is that OK Google of that but you know this isn't a video that they're just making for the audience are actually making this and being paid for on behalf of the Brand and their needs to live be a little bit of ok we get that this isn't just any talking about her head a tail is Connie talking about a brand on behalf of and so I think there needs to be that usually is but something some cases.

There is some of protection around Talent that they can't ever be questioned and they can't ever be held accountable for the content that they create and I think you're being paid for something then you absolutely can but within reason and various didn't even ask again when it comes down to just managing the brief between everyone and the creative in the first place, then I think if a if a brands wanting to work with the creative.

I love that.

You'd like to think I love study their channel that I've seen the kind of style a contact they doing that's why they want to work with him because he like that style of videos so exactly I just think something in that it's some it's all about the processes.

Isn't it mean that so so so can we have?

The contractors first stage but then a video briefing document that get signed by the client get somebody Talent or The management and get some bio so that everybody is in agreement and that says what you can say what you can't say and has a broad creative outlet and then the other thing that we were says we never ever offer our clients approval.

We was Afrikaans Vito and it's a subtle distinction because creative shouldn't have the work approved, but if the video briefing document is Matt that we can say it will actually we can beat her cos that wasn't done all that was done.

So yeah, it's really good point about sorting process itself.

Isn't it? Will always walk away at the point of that that video brief if we don't think it's going to feel we had we had one with can't leave it was quite high money offered to do a video promoting eyeglasses brand ordering glasses online and they essentially one of the two has look like a TV advert for their products.

Where is we were going back saying what actually if you look at Connie's channel her biggest videos are there in press.

Videos of 11 over 5 million views if if you want what we can do a video to the Sony Bravia glass of characters and they just couldn't understand why that would work.

Thank you very much for coming everyone and thank you for the wonderful handle well.

That's it for this special bonus edition of the media podcast thanks so much to social circle for sponsoring it if you would like to find a Future episode of the pod then do get in touch at the media podcast dot.com and that applies to you as well of course if you're an individual though, it's thanks for your donations, but we're able to keep the show on the road, and I'm pleased to say we will be back with an ordinary episode of the pod next week.

I've been Olly Mann the producer Matt Hill 4 BPM Productions see you next week.

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