Read this: #74 - How To Shoot VR and 360 Video - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only men on today so I sit down with Tanya Laird founder of digital jam to talk virtual reality what's best practice for TV and audio storytellers working in this new medium one of the mistakes to avoid to come on this special VR Edition no helmets required to be a podcast to unjoin today by the head of digital jam and the founder of the VR writersroom Tanya Laird at 10 year, did you get into the are purely by accident actually because of my background in the games industry and naturally when everything suddenly decided they wanted to talk about VR and I wanted to find out more about how it works.

There was as natural synergy of a relationship between the games industry and we are so there was this assumption that if you were in the

Even though you can't understand what VR wasn't at work and in the end it just got to the stage was like fine.

You know what I'll talk to you about the sheer scale of the industry as it is now because last year I read it was called the billion-dollar niche medical military fashion architecture education all of his go taken using VR for ages and they've been making money out of it for ages theme parks with making money out of the office so the actual real Elsa notable example of bath so the theme park industry, so people like Disney example have been using the idea of the mass of tea in their theme park rides for decades and I probably gonna get over as we hear a lot of people are thinking but I've never put a Helmut on when I come to Disneyland actual reality actually is that means hmg head-mounted display, which is the ugly things.

You put on your head which most people again.

This is due to the Oculus Rift assume that VR means headset it doesn't mean headset necessarily there are many different types of immersive technology and virtual reality is really the creation of an artificial environment that makes the user or the the participant believe that they are in that alternative environment doesn't have to involve sweetness and the thing is is that there's the idea of augmented reality which is wearing on at you know artificial or fictional elements to the existing wire that we see vs.

Virtual reality which is creating the entirety of that environment.

So that is a fictional environment that you're within and that's the key difference but that that difference doesn't require that you have screens or headsets or other types of technology to facilitate that really good example.

Yes, that's what I give me another word for a great example of non HD virtual reality that was done by the good guys here at frames.

It's actually what they did what they had an American school bus series in Washington DC where they replaced all of the the windows in that bus with specialised displays and they created a virtual version of the surface of Mars said he's kiss again this cool birthday driving around and then as though you know go through the activation the windows changing suddenly.

They're on the surface of Mars and they're able to drive around and explore the surface of Mars and there are stormfront that they have to dodge and let you know they can go closer to a camp over there, but they can see a mountain over that and they can drive towards these things and they can actually it's for the service as a collective group is Suzi social collaborative VR experience it doesn't require eggs that and that's that's a great example of that you don't need a hmd don't need something on the surface of your face in order to actually experience virtual reality and that's where theme parks have been going for quite sometime now if you go to universal you go to you know one of the Disney parks is a lot of these guys where you know you have a 3D roller coasters all these are things work.

You're just in the car.

You're not thinking out with thing on your face so I do think it's a very common misconception for a lot of people with it when you say via them usually assume it means a VR headset within the fashion industry zone in the military and defence Industries that isn't necessarily the case theme park rides for Disney most people listening to this when they've encountered it in the commissioning process.

It's been can you do this in 360? Can we do this for a head-mounted display? And it will be a conversation with the BBC on Sky or something like that in that context.

I think there's also some confusion about the difference between those two things.

What's VR in what's 360 for the people who are left in injected into the industry 360 is basically being able to stand in a static position within live action video of some sort.

You have to see all around you in 360 actually, that's what she then for example if you can't you can look around in 360 but we can't even tried to come pick up an object that you can't even leaning sweet necessarily and see all look around an object or any other kind of things you can look basically in any Direction and 365 wanted to then look around and then a look around a corner leave or look around the corner.

I can't do that in 360.

Where is in truvia? It is not officially generated environment where I can I can move within that environment I can pick things up I can interact with characters in that environment.

I can you know I'm in a fully immersive environment you can so you so you can the film live action and then you can have a big basically most at into a VR environment for the little green screen motion capture in a lot of different ways that you can capture.

A live action performance in an insert that into a virtual environment people like machinarium.

Are you no working with that kind of technology at the moment and there's there's a lot of people who are experimenting with being able to green screen into the uneven altspace VR which is the Shared collaborative environment for social VR have an option which allows you to have a green screen and be able to green screen yourself into the VR environment pure budget times a fraction company says great.

We've got a night with Adele we're going to film and Adele concert.

We want to do it in VR basically what uses Instagram green screen spent many millions of pounds already attracting.

It seems to me is completely within this that the crucial difference is a TV director would be that your job is a TV director is to choose what the camera is pointing at your 36.

You're not doing that.

I'm not using where the bank of cameras are but that you're leaving it up to the viewer to decide what to look at what we have different medium the first thing that we have to learn about that medium is that we no longer have controlled Andover film directors or TV directors ultimately not to be funny about it or anything we do like control would like to put a little frame a little box and say this is what you would say because I want you to see this thing.

This is my mum.

You're too I'm telling you this thing and I want you to sit through this but in VR much like an gaming you have no control over weather looking like you looking behind you for for you now, and so it's it's less about framing the image and more about tempting and drawing the eye with an image.

So this is where the immersive theatre in traditional Theatre Tactics come in very handy, so now we're talking about the use of wine or was founded on audio to draw attention and and lights and writing stories like a 360-degree here as the listener.

If you're looking at the wrong thing.

Sound effect behind you think there's something happening, but I'm really simple example of a door opening and a little slice of light coming from behind wouldn't usually make you turn around because you realise a dodgy saving behind you and you wanna see what's in the door.

So it's those kind of face theatre start acting terms of lighting Cues and sound Cues that draw the attention so it's about during attachment tempting with your rather than forcing the viewer as you would traditionally in TV ok and I guess the really good stuff.

Though is the stuff that says he would like you to look at this bit of action that happening behind you but there's enough detail about this is more scripted and Unscripted there's enough detail going on in this corner as well, because I can gameplay that will be rewarding as well personal bugbear of mine.

Which is there a lot of people the first time they trying to a piece of 360 video for some reason they assume that they have to do loads of stuff behind the viewer as well as in front of the view app and literally they give the viewer whiplash week.

Spell I look everyone's keep on looking keep on turning my head and the reality no pun intended is know if you're walking down the street as a human being is just a normal human being you may have a view of approval of your maybe 180°.

If you're really good and all you're doing is you're looking at front of you and when you turn your entire of you for your vision turns with you.

So it's not like you're looking back and forth you know and moving your head to catch what's going on around.

That's part of this is learning that needs to happen for people who are directing or creating content in physics is actually you can have a blurry 22 to 40% degree angle behind you and nobody will ever care and if your filming a drama or a piece to camera then actually obviously what is often behind the presenter of the actors are the crew and some technical equipment now.

Where do you stand on the idea of it almost being like a second layer of director's commentary on a DVD that actually you can watch the performance if you like, but if you turned around and look behind you.

Nobody loves you see the director and you see the same guy because actually that's that's another layer of interest for some types of scripted content that would absolutely work.

I think a lot of people there are very very obsessed with this idea of just removing any of the production element from the view of what the audience is seeing so they wanted to feel very immersive and so their noses Horrocks session with stitching a full 360 environment what kind of actors work best so here's the interesting thing and I've been having this conversation recently actually with a lot of Talent agents that represent Talent because we've been talking about what type of actors.

Would they need to represent from AVR perspective? How do you get her a gift for somebody in VR you know they will be honest about it and say actually none of our guys have expensive if you out because the reality is very different performance skill and it's still requires some re-education and some retraining for somebody to be able to.

Perform well in VR and he's the reason why is because it isn't like film where it's very much focused on the close-up and you do your she ain't your take and you're done in a couple of seconds a couple of minutes and you move onto the next stage we can resend you can leave that you can't do that in VR you have to be able to run all the way through so so so close to the theatre or the best type of actors are really immersive Theatre actors who used to do the entire play on one go with no brakes because the audience about the whole time you can't be stepping coming.

I will just really sorry I've lost my line when used to do that again.

You just can't do that.

Are you need to have the entirety of that performance need to be fluid so that there's a certain degree of Theatre acting that is important and also the whole it when people don't spend it all at once.

You know that that hold being too intense or two in the moment with the I kinda need to be in the moment and so there are lot of actors who weren't able to sustain that they are unable to constantly giving that way at that level of energy and also not have that Direction Moments of moments shot two shot and then the other thing course.

Is motion capture and act information capture is very very different you speak to the guys at the imaginarium.

Speak to Andy Serkis and it's a very different skill set in terms of motion capture being aware of your body being aware of your habits in the way that you articulate using your body is incredibly important in VR so it's kind of this fusion of immersive Theatre acting and motion capture acting that a lot of actors straight out of you know acting school.

Did they not going to have at school so then needs to be more training more more can a merging of their skill sets in order for people to truly be able to step into nav are in a gig or your hair projects and really be able to deliver right off the Bat I love you.

I do with some sort of 21st century singing in the rain anymore potential by definition is the possibility.

Achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., to learn more than other big names from FilmOn TV for actively interested in pursuing this at the moment, so I'm taking a box will because they've met someone worked on again, when I actually want to actually want to see former directors a point of view.

I know that Michael Bay has made a deal specifically with the company of an Aberdeen to remain nameless.

I know that Steven Spielberg is also made to deal with them.

I think it's Dreamcast so there in the US and they're doing a retail outlet shopping malls VR so much.

List of things like the Void do you know what the Void is not attend zero latency examples of experiential VR so in the case of zero latency.

It's Warehouse scale via so you going to a warehouse they'll be maybe 6 or 8 people who are in a multiplayer game or a zombie killing game basically you got your PC back back on your back with the headset you got your gun in your hand on your in a shared environment basically killing zombies together and then on the flip side of that you have the Void which is an expensive believe it's basically I could be completely wrong with that but in the shopping centre in a higher.

They basically creator of action environment for you to go explore with backpack and and a headset on so it's best portable VR essentially but they've created props and sets within this environment so that as you see in the virtual world a table.

You can touch a physical table and it just enhances your experience of of the environment.

So the idea thing is is that a blue Spielberg Sam deal with drink acid to use Spielberg IPS to be able to create the voice type experiences which will be awesome obviously.

I'm so so there are a lot of people who dabbling in that colour experiential VR space but certainly big names like guns Spielberg in and Michael Bay I am interested.

Do you want to look at that on the acting flip side of that I know that Wesley Snipes is just done a movie called the recall with moving pictures media and that was specifically shooting in VR elements of the movie as well.

So they actually have a really see on your own petard younglings Media description of what they did but the reason why was like that movie was because he was interested in VR and he was interested in the technology in the 360 shooting over there.

We doing so there are people both on their creative.

You know side of things that you know the directing producing side of things and also being.

Talent show performance side of things who are interested in the technology in and how they need to evolve their performance but through you've discussed theme parks and you talk about insulation in the shopping centre.

That is essentially for the mainstream general public not something but you'll need to tell you want to do in your front room everyday.

I'm being in the way that are migrating in that is because there is perhaps a certain degree of unrealistic assumptions and that every person is suddenly gone have a VR headset in the home and the reality of that scenario is that actually it will be the early adopters.

It's going to be the PC gamers and now hardcore console gamers who were going to get into this first so as example if you got a psvr than you're already a hardcore PlayStation gamer.

You know you've got a PlayStation 4 in your home and you have.

Psvr headset to go with it means that you're ready some keys recently committed to gaming as it is if you're committing yourself to a HTC on Oculus Rift you even more processes because you've gone and got no HMC festival that ain't she then you've got to have a dedicated PC that can run it which isn't she be there is no you talking about two grand Ole in if you wanted decent set up for that kind of thing that's pretty committed people in the first place you talking about less than 2% of the population.

You've actually got VR in their right now and then if you look at the flip side about the other end of that is going to be the people who are doubling around with things like you know the gear VR for the mobile phone or cardboard which isn't exactly high-end VR it's more than you know it's 360 film.

Let's be honest, but it hasn't always been my question your of people going round and playing with it, but it's not something quite bitter lemon joy to the people who are dabbling with this.

I'm not going up to have a high end quality experience unless they go to a theme park, Llanelli go somewhere where there's an experiential setup of of this we are in Action because those DP

You actually make money out of a start off with people who are rushing into notes been up for a VR game studio water spinner per unit 360 film studio right now most least people have no clue how they going to make their money back if you walk into a new studios in you say can I see your forecast They're gonna look at your fav lanky and go what do you mean forecast because there will be lying on PR money.

They all relying on their marketing budgets of people who were want to dabble in VR and want to create not because they should but just because they can and those people you know they're big brands was just saying hey.

Let's do a bit of VR in the same way that you know 10 years ago.

So we've got to have a mobile app or is it right that they should all be doubling or million-dollar Stewart to make a bit of er, but what do I get back out of that and there's going to start to be those questions and if people aren't educating themselves from the get-go as as to how do I make my money in beer then.

Justin be a lot of North like people who are creating a sustainable business models for the studio when it comes to making documentary filming process.

I know it get smaller and smaller all the time and you can use balls are gopros, but he's the filming process.

Just intrinsically more intrusive.

I worry if someone who goes out talks to people here right now you and I talking on to stick makes its unobtrusive.

That's why I asked me if we were filming it for the internet with put a couple of cameras here if you're feeling it in the 360 presume.

You've got a bank of cameras took something is just had a traumatic experience of something that is difficult this is actually Sarah Jones from Coventry University she's does a lot of really great VR content she's very experimental she does not documentary stuff and then ask her about her Irish Irish dancers.

Ok, which was a piece where she is actually she had a group of young Irish dancers.

Young girls probably ages 10-12 very very young girls and they were having a conversation in she just put a 360 camera in the middle of

Conversation and the girls had a very organic ring natural conversation over the top of the camera and end, it was totally untrue sit when they were more intimate in that conversation, then they would have been if they'd been a personal camera man now or camera person there with a camera seeing you know in a Munster group or without you know if somebody shoulder would be far more intrusive and they wouldn't have in his open as they were so actually in some ways to B68 was very very good with Windows 10 Sky News going film refugees in the ocean.

You know is it just bad taste to turn up with a bank of 10 cameras rather than one or am I wrong is it is not an issue, but I'm a little Bear little or no cameras that they are literally the size of your hand and it's not a bank account with that all it's like her a box or a bowl or a thing that isn't very intrusive it all and think I've just kind of stick that in the middle of some action because that's all to Mutley what.

360 filming is at the moment is just stick a camera in the middle of some action and let the action happened around it specially documentary just for the record.

I think is extremely lazy, but that's all those people doing right now, but that isn't very intrusive and it's it's very simple to have actor in your pocket anytime be able to work the camera out and there were certain people like Sarah or you know you would like Dean who if you are in a with them something they will just whip out that little box in the recording and and it's very easy, so I don't think it has to be in Tuesday if I don't think it needs to necessarily be intrusive and I think that technology is there in terms of its what's morning after that it doesn't have to be in your face obvious that you're messing recording and if you're starting out yeah on your first of your project because you're really excited genuinely by the creative opportunity or because some commissioners saddled.

You will have to take it you forgot what resources are there for you.

Community sport are we talking finding what we talking here? I think we're talking creatively making the show in place even if it's not much money and you want to make the thing you need to hire the crew you need to get the right people and place their communities for this kind of thing so there is the augmented reality meet-up group itself which really happened to co-host there's 4400 people who are within that community there will make your creators who are creating VR and ar you got the VR allow community at London that's why my rewind and then and soul in the team every.

Why'd they meet maybe every kind of three or four months but again that's huge community of people who were all making if you're looking to do something as non-profit and and it's for the offer good.

You got VR together which is a community specifically dedicated to people who want to contribute their time and their their expertise and skills to create VR that is forgot to type into YouTube how do I make AVR 370?

To Birmingham Scotland Australia la New York wherever you are in the weather's going to be a group of people that you can physically getting a room with Circles you to find out about digital jam.

Where can I go to do that if you just want to view the content you can go to a digital jam sandwiches nyx.com if you want to find out more about us as the company you can go to digital jam.

Ltd., Ltd is spelt out in force xlimit drf.

You wanted followers on Twitter you can follow us on Twitter at digital jam Ltd what you can join his wife Facebook or also in VR in altspace VR because we hoster not supposed to be over months as well pretty exhaustive.

That's it from us catch up with previous episodes and get new ones as soon as they're released by subscribing for free on our website via Media podcast in.com this episode is dedicated to Stephen Wilson

Steve is head of digital content for Global looking after brands including capital heart and LBC and newcomers pop buzz and we the unicorns he also bought me a beer at web summit in Lisburn so thanks for that Steve joins Stephen keep us on the air go to the media podcast dot.com / donate I can only man the producer Matt Hill and the media podcast is a PPM production until next time.

Potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud.

Come to learn more.