Read this: #88 - Express deal nears, freemasons a podcast ad boost

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show Richard Desmond is poised to sell his paper Empire whilst purchases trinity mirror face phone hacking victims in court we discuss low stories + the latest goings-on at Channel 4.

What is 6 Music might need a region of its own the Fallout from the BBC gender pay gap dispute how podcast of the future of advertising practice.

Please do get in touch and in the media quiz we play famous last words come and join me today is Boyd Hilton no not the British historian of Trinity College there was a mix up there.

We've got the entertainment director of heat magazine, but did you know you're not the Top Boy film on Google of course? I'm aware of that but it's unfair because it is his middle name.

Is my first name so it's not fair if you ever met never mate.

I've been so so check this one so I think I'm sure I sent it back for some history thing was on the Open University is about 15 years ago as if it wasn't me that dinner is the immediate.

There's a guy called Oliver man, who's got the same email address as me - 0.

And I get messages from his mum about want to listen to Radio 4 Today could be messaging you on about listening to you on my don't think it'd be yeah boiiii many hats that you wear out some of your time is spent watching previews.

What have you seen this? Week's hell of a lot of my time is spent watching Freeview what is good is that a new thing Steven Soderbergh has directed a new series called mosaic Sky Atlantic NOW TV and a couple of time on Saturday night, but weirdly and its religious is a crime drama with Sharon Stone and in America had an app that they created for it where you could follow the story from different characters point of view I was quite another.

Finish the way you said that I thought maybe the app was going to be where you can track Sharon Stones career like what she been doing for the last five years he is joining us as well from the week.co.uk welcome back journalist Rebecca gillie.

Would have you been journalling this week this week.

They've been in news recently that the secret lodges in Westminster there partly not upset about all the negativity that they're taking out adverts.

So is that what really goes on in the Masonic lodges and what did you find out where you permitted to speak to him now? He is just a load of it's all fun and games.

It's not nefarious Winkleman spoken at the rotary club AGM and it wasn't just in your medical city of women as well very nice.

Little little man of my other members to waitress the we used to have an all-male order.

They were sword like a sub-par knock off of the freemasons and they specifically requested no female weight stuff, so I never got to see what was going on in that wrist at the rotary club.

Just doesn't have the online traction the president's club does does it sadly otherwise you have a great story of a couple of press stories at the top today first off the news that Richard Desmond is poised to sell his newspaper business to trinity mirror and this has been widely trail hasn't avoid being talked about this through years of haggling over the price of a maze is that the main and pension pension if I'm in the pension the I don't understand that apart from the fact that there's not enough money in the pension pot and it 425 million s alright something like that.

That was a good deal, Rebecca

Purchase is going to offset their giant pension deficit.

I just worries me slightly because Richard Osman selling his Media Empire Trinity may seem to think that by creating a bigger Media Empire they're going to somehow saving and ultimately make lots of money, but the whole thing sounds a little bit dubious, but I think they've been going on about for so long that it's kind of Reach the point of inevitability in the Stone Age to former trinity mirror to expand its print titles.

You know considering him in you know it feels to me that strictly newspapers that you are there anyone make money pot from people apart from the the kind of big turtles with payrolls who are doing ok? I think I'm not sure how it's going to work.

They going to make more money.

Not sure that it's not just girls going to work by 12 ok.

It's part of the course which is been one of the heat to have to have to declare that and has been for many many years and is completely the whole celebrity weekly market was current turned on its head by a case he started Richard Desmond started multi packing always go back.

Three different celebrity weekly titles of varying quality, what's what's the heater like you get with ok? Hot stars hot stars used to get the next on that disappeared which is a lychee a copy of heating down to the front and rear but it's got other ones as well knew I think it's his anyway, but he pattern all together in one in one thing which completely kind of started ruining the market we don't do that at all anymore.

So that's interesting what happens to ok.

I think it is as fascinating as it doesn't feel like a kind of mirror trinity mirror proposition, but presumably that's what they really want.

I mean I know the Express obviously the title with some history of it really want I think I made it because Lithgow City expresses sure it is me and the Daily Star really is just a thought I mean it's not I don't have anything tabloid terms.

It's shit so but but ok is arguably better than hello more mass appeal.

I need a definite going to fit in a lot more easily because it's not no, it's not controversial in any way do the interesting thing from you know but be on the financial aspects from the journalistic perspective is what's going to happen to the editorial?

Why'd you know the expression was layers but known for being very brexit something ante desanti that coming into the same stable with the Daily Mirror it's cause a lot of excitement.

I think probably naively in the left wing blogosphere about how the Daily Express is now going to become a pro labour paper which I think is a very unlikely to happen and be as a bit short sighted to think that we must only be a good thing that you can just sell off a paper in have its entire editorial Direction reversed.

I don't think that's likely to happen, but I think everybody interesting to see how the Daily Express is going to fit in alongside the Daily Mirror because you're gonna have to papers next victoriana.

You know the newsagents one of them saying you know corbyn's awful the other than St Albans great now that they're run by the same company.

It's just going to be a slightly weird feeling and I'm guessing I mean Daily Express readers haven't cared that the title was owned by the same bloke Iran Asian babes and whatever I said that does that matter then again who does the expression it's a fascinating a me, what my grandma used to really.

Weather seems to be a big thing every other day and that their possessions that have to like Diana 4 years has always just perverted session with Matty and Helen don't forget cancer miracle cure cancer and whether the Express and American find a crossover because people interested in whether the matter what the weather from the left wing point of view from the Liberal left maybe that's the niche that they're going for my life.

We going to stop being cynical for just about to give it 30 seconds.

You could be argued that at least trinity mirror is a new company a company that invests in journalism.

Ok, they're going to cut back doing this consolidation, but Richard Desmond isn't and never has been particularly interested in that I mean it for the Express on the one hand thank god.

You've got rid of this.

I meant can I say you go maniac atleast you know I don't think you can Sue for that.

I'm trying to find the right words that you can't see that one of the proper Old Skool white.

Man you know just doing everything for his ego.

You know premiums pictures of himself and all of his publications.

They got rid of him on the other side there gonna be part of the big group that who knows how they going to consolidate the title and save money so it must be I do feel sorry for people always so sorry for people who have to wait Richard Osman but particularly this doesn't feel like a great new Dawn I don't know if feels like it's particularly on certain things have to go to express staff and the start of it probably going to be pretty pleased about this because I did couple of trial days are in the process of being made redundant from my old job and I was witnessed an argument over cups because everyone had to bring their own marketing staff mugs ever and brought their own.

They were squabbling about milk people who are happy to use the communal milk, but never brought in a pint of communal milk there were about 20 people on a floor with about 150c.

It was post-apocalyptic no milk milk milk.

No problem with Marcus have to say a whole episode it because even within really busy.

I've noticed for example BBC Three Counties Radio everyone brings in their own milk and writes their name on it BBC Radio Northampton communal milk budget whole new base stations can mine's and they've got their own problems.

I've just settled their phone hacking case with Hugh Grant spokesperson for the Mirror Group newspapers admitted officials quote turned a blind eye to the illegal practice at so boy does this make trinity mirror a fit and proper publisher to take on the Express and the Daily Star thanks for that kind of weather against me Julie most of the even the top-level executives and certainly editors who were in charge back in the day when this stuff was going on apparently on industrial scale ever Gonna Be Moved onto pastures new hello Good Morning Britain the example and so I don't think you've been mean to do not feel proper to carry on being.

Via Media Player I'm asking is fascinated by the word into this.

This is be going on as well for years and years this this isn't it and finally settled on and the lawyer Q costs lawyer got you.

You said the word dumb you said turn a blind eye the phrase intriguing me is there a senior employees and clean executives editors and journalists condoned encouraged or actively turned a blind eye to the words for culture of Andalusia body turning up trying to work out what I mean that they must be haggling over these wording for years and it's fascinators.

What that means to me.

It's like so back in then in those days when it was happening when phone akina was happening to get stories.

They're going to conference in the morning that the Poor Leno young showbiz early, so we're getting these stories from phone hacking would tell you know the Editors have we got this story and then so just not ask them when I got the story.

I mean that sounds to me.

What was happening at my interpretation of this thing actually turning a blind eye to where they should be a question? Yeah I think so.

I would like I would like to see it interesting that the Editors the people in charge because I am I still in the situation that you know the journalist get the blame for it at the ones that had you know I feel the whole kind of tone and mood at pretty much.

Hopefully it's different now.

I don't know but I had a lot of friends who worked at a boy's back in those days.

You know the song in the mirror and it's so hard and competitive looks like bullying culture have to say you know from the higher ups and the pressure to come up with his losses particularly and showbiz Hina involving Hugh Grant for example would have been so intense and I think that's really why they ended up using these methods and I think you have to blame the the the the the bosses in the Editors on TuneIn you don't say I've never seen a party at level 7 talk about never say never listen to those people actually asked what you know.

Do you resent do you regret not regret that atmosphere where you meant of the Germans had to use this method is it legal method anymore on method of getting destroyed because the competition was so desperate so extreme.

I think it I think it was a terrible.

Choice with a lot of journalistic history has those kind of dirty Tactics have been the norm you no thinking back to like that yellow journalism Around The Turn of the 20th century.

It was completely normal then an expected really for reporters to make things up use all the dirty tricks in the book only really rezervi recent innovation that we expect journalist to have that kind of standard of behaviour you know that you know that journalists used to have a reputation just dino door stepping and people in it was actually expected that they used all these kinds of Tactics so you know it's a I mean obviously it's it's been cleaned up in it's clear.

That's not acceptable but I think phone hacking was really just a modern technological twist on what's been I've been kind of accepted practices for basically a century and is different so we don't care.

I mean the one thing that this whole situation is there is we don't get many Kiss and Tell sweet sample you know every now and then but the inner back in the day when use the word existed for example in a

Was incredible competition to get stories of sexual me know peccadilloes from evolving famous people and a lot of them are just details of what famous people doing day and date was must have come obviously from phone hacking and that feels different so yeah, I mean on a daily basis.

You know all newspapers include broadsheets in this.

No, I think that competitive is there is is desperate and every now and then a broadsheet comes up with think it's actually clearly preposterous.

Never actually isn't because punters themselves actually if they see a celebrity story they think worth reporting.

They don't think it be in economic terms.

I think I've min share this on social media as soon as possible for free through a bit of a social change their towards celebrities and no they're not in the sense that we appreciate the most people now and we do expect them to want their privacy and I didn't people for green more more.

Why do they have a right to privacy if you think of like you're saying with kiss and tells you know you don't see there's that many salacious stories anymore.

Cos they do a lizard backlash anything we saw the same sort of thing with the Harvey Weinstein thing I see.

10 or 20 years ago people just said they're open tell wasn't I'm not saying that the people wrong to come out and say that happened to the story of the previously might have been sold which is now women coming forward and saying for free.

I want to put the story up because it's important 20 years ago.

There was an expectation that well, that's how Hollywood works.

That's how the media industry works and people who work in that industry aren't like us.

They know the rules and that had it is.

I think we come round to a place where we do think of celebrities as having the same rights as the rest of us and people are a bit more sympathetic to their plight and you know I'm not sure I hope your son to Levinson harder Do We Think It's Going to actually happened Hugh Grant wants it too.

I'm going to much for the people involved in the newspapers to go through that that thing and I can't see a very weak.

Tory government in agreeing to level some Chase and hasn't isn't there something enquiry into the trees myself about the Viber

Of newspapers that thing that feels like the the kind of look over there.

We're doing this so we can't do that wasn't in because that's just too much to everyone to take and there is a danger maybe Rebecca that although it was very Valiant in a Wyoming Hugh Grant actually donated his compensation reportedly a six-figure sum to hacked off.

So it's not for his personal gain, but there's a value in a way that these big stars has pursued it.

Cos I can forward to Steve Coogan Hugh Grant it's become recalibrated in the public's mind this story as about rich celebrities having a go at the media rather than you no ordinary people having their bins rifled through and being or stuffing listen to vrt.

I understand why I like you say that Hugh Grant eccetera want it and actually some good cook on a bit, but fundamentally I'll be really expensive and really tiny proportion of people actively care about it.

Ok.

Talk about telly the new head of Channel 4 Ian Katz has been hard at work shaping his top team at Kelly webb-lamb becomes his deputy Boyd remind us a little bit.

At her background Kelly webb-lamb who I have met and she's a great.

I think she is leading the channels on screen diversity and inclusion strategy as well as the factual and St Peter's and daytime commissioning teams which will report to her.

She's ex MD of shine television schedule on Channel 4 at edge of factual and saying I think I've done some panels with her in Edinburgh in her role as head of factual entertainment.

I think that drunk always how many Now You See Me in Edinburgh is just a Blurred things supposed panel regrettably remember I chatted to you remember One media podcast no, she she's really she's really interesting and very likeable and very and very smart and I think she do a great job and then she did overseas in order of Bake Off on Channel 4 which you know that it was a poison chalice, wasn't it? Because that could have gone horrendously wrong and I think you know if she's the one and I don't know the ins and outs of it, but if she was the one who made sure they pretty much stuck to the recipe.

To speak of when it was a gigantic get on BBC apart from the bringing the presenters in you know and you know very slightly tweaking things here and there then she's a print job because you know it was pretty much as big as I could have hoped animal poison chalice of course was the episode to showstopper as much of the remaining in place.

Do you think that says Channel 4 was possibly in quite healthy shape has been a particularly strong think on this year because it has gone a bit from poison chalice to now really Golden Gate Stacey's it was it the BBC if you like that you like that thing is what channel 4.

Kind of what it was very useful for damage to have a flag pole tent pole flagship program, but they can kind of rely on because what channel was I've been good at this stuff.

That's a bit out there a little bit experimental but you do need to have some solid hipster.

Keep that going I think Bake-Off could have fallen flat, but it's done pretty well, and I think the majority of people who watch the series will probably come back and watch next one.

I'm bored.

What are the challenges for Channel 4? Do you think if you were on stage interviewing Kelly webb-lamb possibly for the first time? What would you be asking you? I think I think I might pose a Big Show and just come out with new formats and New Year particularly infection and saying I've had some huge big hits over the his beloved.

I'm going up first dates and goes on and on and on fine, but how do you find new ones you know new interesting entertainment itself for metformin feels like a big Challenge for Germany for your cats and our team Channel 4? What hasn't had I'm trying to think of a decent in own big new entertainment and format with fits their room.

I think live arguably was a lie down in a what's that show prices.

Thank you.

Have a point to the last may but you can't keep doing that she's great and does really well now on like 40 weeks a year do something vaguely works and I meant Gogglebox forgetting simile for two weeks of year practically but I need some new stuff in that say I think strong is really strong for them.

I don't use very brilliantly target.

You know like.

Goodbye.

Ok again.

He said it was a little bit like looking at things sadly dog Soul Survivor and Hooch

One of them such that she wants Hindus was I hope so, I think but in general.

I think I'd rather is bold and contemporary and absolutely what channel 4 should be doing but not sure if and entertain suicidio with ne22 booster before we go to the break a quick look at the radio Industries latest listening figures release the morning.

We're recording and Matt Deegan isn't here so bored Rebecca Romijn ask your reactions instead.

I have Redknapp vegan blog.

He says the big story was about Chris Moyles breakfast show on radio x now has a bigger reach than the whole of XFM in its last few months before it was rebranded as the radio x project been a successful global it shows the power of personality.

I think the BBC was sort of place where you was considered disposable.

I think they thought it really doesn't matter who is who's in who's in charge people keep listening in those key slot they think it does show that a lot of his audience of followed him and I think it's it's in.

Justin because I don't think we have had hear the same way they do in the USA they have his big radio personalities be kind of take their audience wherever they go and I did he is proving to be an example of that.

I mean I'm not one of them out.

I never listen to him a lot of people clearly do when clearly are also would then be willing to follow other radio presenters if they were to leave the BBC or you know capital whatever they followed their personalities around.

I think that might be an interesting development in are ready, anyway.

He's one of the rare examples on commercial radio and if you look at the global stable.

There's really only him and Johnny Vaughan and the presenters on LBC who are allowed to have some personality the rest of the time.

They told you the get big names and they told me this have happened if you know bigger when it was actually would have been embarrassing as I think it had to let me know you use a huge huge star let you know you can't I rest my how big he was when he was Radio 1 so that's the point of giving him that job so that you could bring his fan base to and I'm sure.

What does it mean that commercial radio need more personality? I do think so I think it's hard because on the one hand if you're kind of slightly if you're so like his registration relying on very mainstream music output then the personality is slightly secondary to making sure that the music is Italy's what people want to listen to so there's that big kind of lino for the F1 if if if it's station has his music app and they put out song that the public doesn't like your turnover medially to its bigger rival just dropping my phone might have to be careful and all them people and I think a lot of commercial leases don't miss you want to get some witchery on frozen is and yet in a question of course is a big.

That's a big is leaving absolute part of the Bower Family Guy work for and I don't know who's going to take over him that be fascinating because I don't know that so complete that I have they vary of course but I just been a lot of money Simon drive, so that it will be absolutely horrible.

Yeah, but you're what's an invariant Riga times for commercial radiator ok? Let's talk about commercial speech radio then talk radio show in no signs of growth in this radio quarter.

What does that tell us that talk radio something that most listeners grow into so it's really just a case of waiting till people are the right age to start listening to things like this is a programme The Voice got their call.

Isma ship.

I think it's hard expanding to upgrade a beyond that to talk about Toolstation long until radio the genre of what they have done what they've done is just changed their line-up Julia hartley-brewer doing breakfast.

They got rid of Jake yapp, which I think was such a thing as he's so great yeah, but it really what they've done.

It seems to me.

It is they've said let's go after that's like the older audience Rebecca be your religion is not try and get the people listen to podcast let's try and get.

People listen to LBC in five live there got Paul Ross and Martin kelner doing overnight switch actually, that's a strong overnight lineup Ibiza a bit scared of that if I was LBC I will get an audience I think but I don't really I generally don't understand what the niche futur radio.

It's like what it's you know what it's USB is so because it could you got LBC you know what you can listen to Connie national he's got big personalities big political we are on for the cover both sides of the political divide quite effectively and you got talk radio Julia Hartley Brewer I can't stand there.

So I'm just I'm just react to get stuck as she talks absolute nonsense they and down double cheese a double Diner is there no nonsense breakfast should come up with a smile in generally.

What is the proposition because you've got LBC on the one hand you got five live you know doing a lot of talk radio in it in.

Oh na na I feel in a very compelling.

You've got talkSPORT you know the code.

If you want you want just beautiful white sport socks.

What does a really good job of that im in adipocyte different to Five Live and it was your Radio 4.

I don't know what is the talk radio? What is the what is it going for it feels a bit later.

That's the only one that's managed to break into that younger audience for they've done it a lottery social media like in a way.

You know anyone who thinks it's been discussed, but recently it like in recent years is how we don't have a TV equivalent of The Daily Show or the Colbert Report that's really taken off.

Where is I see a lot on Facebook and Twitter people sharing clips of LBC you know and that has almost feel that niches that shareable political be no because that's like in that talk radio the Jonah can really address well in comparison to podcast is that kind of day today current affairs up-to-the-minute if something is it is a niche that that kind of genre can feel the podcast contact Sarah Lee is George Galloway

Is it for me? I'm afraid I'd rather like a bit of a great day customers Outlook we do all different percentages.

You got to go away.

I also plateauing is BBC 6 music on that.

I had a really good run.

Go on growing for reference.

Is it for me if I lost it feels like it is it is his family would one point he was it was going to be axed in the same as being genuinely bonkers was saved after can buy and they grew and grew and grew so it feels very natural it was some point.

It's going to plateau because thank god.

It's not compromising its its own proposition is employees fairly nation music.

Thank god that has a great line up of presenters who know about that music and that's what it does and I'm not sure if you're ever gonna it's not going to become Radio 2.

You know or a contour Magic FM is it it's going to be what it is.

I think fair enough that's plateaued much bigger dim sum but it has now been what is doing it.

It's so good and refreshing and so in line with what the BBC supposed to be doing that and I think that idea has taken hold now, so probably is safe of never look at time for a break will be back with more of what we supposed to be doing after this by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud web.

Malcolm's begin visit Oracle data cloud., tullamore post-production it's the bit after the production but of course you know that because you working telly well, maybe you do if you do then run VT is the post production facility you desire it has 15 offline and 2 online Suites as well as an arresting baselight grading Theatre very comfortable darling sweet and an idiot proof voice-over Booth look.

I'm using it now idiot proof and what pray tell can you see that run VT has had a hand in well? Why not check out murder in Paradise produced by rumpus Media available now on Demand 5 edit your next show at runvt if you work in TV go to Romsey t.tv.

Now time to media news in brief now.

Akram boys are still here with me and one of the biggest stories of the whole year actually has been a continuing Fallout from the BBC gender pay gap revelations Carrie Gracie of course.

There will be coming with honey figurehead for that debate and she went in front of the dcms select committee last week boys were you watching I didn't watch it, so I reckon I only wanted you mad angry.

She was angry wasn't she was extremely angry well.

It was if I thought I must admit I did not watch the to meditate with Chrissie Hynde rain justifiably dinner did the justification she was given for the pay difference being that her role was different in scope and scale from her colleagues in the Middle Eastern the USA only interested China editor.

She wasn't the Armenia editor in the news every single day.

It's a bit of bit weak sauce to claim that the coat so then we just deal with that point on a sleep for a second.

Yes, China is in the news everyday.

But in the BBC News agenda, it isn't as high profile.

Is it is the Middle East or America so I don't think it's right to say obviously they should be such a huge disparity.

There is no argument.

Isn't it us the middle east is more important.

That is not fair to compare was on TV every time.

I go in a Jumperoo personalities reporting you know from the front line becoming familiar face or is that just something that arose because as you say admittedly us Middle East are slightly bigger gigs.

I mean maybe a safer way will be to classify countries by peers rather than having each country get individual reason.

There is a justification and it's not the one we've been here it very confusing as soon as the story kind of blew up that will hold on a minute in a my Mum hasn't heard of Carrie Gracie we don't see that we don't see many China stories on the new stay in the hours.

We see Jeremy Bowen every single day talking about Donald Trump in a very brother Riley

Impressive wife and so I feels weird that we're pretending that she's the same doing the same thing when she's clearly not as she's only not been brought broadcasting in the same way as the others as those guys that been paid way more.

I think these for me that is clear that that has to be no but can't pretend it.

That's not the case but equally I think this goes back to a period when the BBC for some reason thought that these big blokes with with the only people they can get this bit of big jobs have been on TV in news.

I'm talking about day in day out and you know what the newsreader Is dominated by a big blokes and you know presenters of factual shows and think they're huge stars and no one else could do their job.

We're going to pay them loads of money that to me was the problem which are completely nonsense me know and that goes for today and everything like you go to John Humphrys tomorrow with Miss and get someone else to do it.

I seriously think that I think you know people admit would miss John Humphries was Beauty and a few other old white guys.

Historic Association you know the news is something that is voice commands to be different to me and I think there's BBC said stupid things about it, but the actual situation suicide difference in her public profile, but one of the points.

She made that was interesting job of China editor is so it's harder than us Hill Middle East because of the censorship because the political sensitivity and that the work she was doing even if it wasn't on the same profile isn't equal worth to the BBC which I see I mean I think you would have to be you know inside the inside the new service to really assess the weight of a spring spacers an interesting point she made us at her job that much harder in that respect that her work was worth the same as the BBC was forced by the government to release information on its highest paid stars.

Do you think they should go the whole hog and publishing salaries of all on screen Talent should they Force in these to release how much entertainment presenters get paid should we see everything?

Why the justifications the same public money at the whole thing is because you know there was a big showbiz presenters, what they earning for the BBC to you know there's no none of them are doing the same job because I'm the only people doing so maybe Emily maitlis, are the presenters of Newsnight if there been paid differently they doing exactly the same drugs the male presenter of Newsnight in the film open Season I am not doing the same job as Claudia Winkleman they just not so great was on 42 or whatever and Izzy no attitude.

You were coming to ours on 1670 weeks yet.

It's just a different one saying it.

It's going to take them incredible amount of Genius on mathematical genius to work out the if all the showbiz presenters are there been paid fairly in terms of the enders Tanya's to have a cat look like they're having you as we don't want to hear it.

Should I feel it is going to compete with ITV

Terms of showbiz then they collect it I can't be a cat that have to be able to compete on the fairground organ would stay doing his show at £1000000 it wouldn't ring when they don't know what difficulty wireless presenter that only works the BBC because they feel a loyalty to the BBC you know you're not able to draw of what that a wide pool of Talent that where you have to be competitive and I don't have at the risk of sounding paternalistic.

I think there is something to be said for keeping those figures private because you all you get at the end of the day is the backlash that could pay for NHS nurses you know where is there? It's just like with the world sports about competitive competitive and market rates and that sort of thing and at the end of days if the BBC's gonna stay at the top is gay men have to part with a lot of money for the the right people and interest of transparency.

I should point out the both boys and Rebecca getting paid the same amount for their contributions.

Response unit to tackle the rising fake news shared on social media Rebecca what does prompted this US election but there was also a lot of talk about was there Russian interference in the EU referendum vote which from what I've read sounds a little bit like remainer wishful thinking that probably wasn't too he just then but so the idea being that people need to be protected from you know seeing all of this information online and there's government this new government Hit Squad is going to be out there responding to fake news although not maybe in the way that you think because really they can be focusing on identifying any potential state interference using social media, so when your auntie says something about how marijuana cures cancer.

They're not gonna be clamping down on that it's all a bit.

It's all of an old-fashioned solution to a new problem is that I just didn't I can't really imagine how this is going to work the right that they can use spreads and boys you.

Referenced earlier in the show that the prime minister also announced this week review into the role of Facebook and Google in reduced revenue for journalism would give us a Precis of what she said, what was the reaction to you know the story of Facebook rejigged? It's it's News the wake throws out new stories and A-level gently no journalists and news providers are terrified of us can affect their bottom line and so she's some kind of some kind of restoration to how it's gonna affect these interested with seems like a decent thing to do with interesting spearheading it wasn't it rather than Matt Hancock who's the new dcms guy I mean with the prime minister's making a speech about this.

What does that signify suppose it Roll of fake news and Miss information spread almost entirely through Facebook and to a lesser extent Twitter it has prompted this response now that he needs that high-profile intervention from the very.

What to say we're looking into this to people on both sides and you know all sides of the funeral of the political spectrum are upset about this everyone thinks that the other side is making up some define you said you get to sort it.

It's an initiative that everyone can get behind relatively frictionless Lee but I I mean I just don't I'm not overly hopeful about how I mean.

I just below this investigation is taking in such an enormous spread of issues fake news the duopoly of Google and Facebook I'm not quite sure that this phone off for tomorrow.

Never speak to you.

Give us a diversion on something other than it is her own precarious basically, but you cannot sort out someone sitting in a in Russia have enough that question was oracle phone.

Sorry no no no question about everything she says hello sorry, so you're not anyone to do anything about someone sitting in a factory in Russia somewhere creating a fake news story which is the

That's the real fake news isn't that the other apparently there were people coming out with some extraordinarily Ludacris story about the Pope supporting supporting Donald Trump right that was was a genuine invention of someone somewhere.

That's how that use really started.

What Donald Trump to expect during their politicians talk about down and out is not is isca meat different thing as me the news.

I don't agree with that often is true particularly upset the government property this was the story about Tory MPs voting the animals went sending it and couldn't feel pain, but it was red of an astonishing amount of idiot who actually thought the Tory MPs will be just steps to the twiddling their moustaches adjusting them on a cruise boat about how animals should all be you know if logged intending to glue it was ridiculous and that wasn't happened to talk but apparently apparently the word is this is what is that was what really caught the government's attention was is particularly pernicious story about themself around appendix on.

Are you ready to do three very quick and fascinating stories about the world of podcasting always good first step in the States we've seen TV getting into podcast in a big way boy.

Tell us what this is about yet, so I think American you know the big American known networks and streaming services of suddenly realised that programs like serial podcast like serial which you know that became massive huge phenomena and tens of millions of people listening to them well with the go to tap into that it's a new and why not at my arms slight feeling is the reason why you no serial with being the obvious example certain of the true Crime as a particularly effective and popular podcast on right feel I told him that very American you no way of reporters and it and it works brilliantly dirty John another example the huge hit was a brilliant story told perfectly well.

I feel if I want to see the same story that cereal that Sarah Koenig did on TV told again in a slightly different way.

I'm not sure if I

Do so I must think I'm sure you know get find those kind of stories and find out.

Where is 10 MB in a way that sound already because there are HBO true crime series and the courts making a murderer was I think making models do quibbling of cereal really and I'll give you the night of was an equivalent in Germany trying to come up with dramatizations of Leeds podcast seems a lot of things to do but I don't blame them for trying it my thing is I'm not going to be excited about a new version of a story.

I've already heard told brilliantly on a podcast done on television is just a brand isn't it Rebecca it's the same as we've seen in the movie universe with all the comic books being plundered forenames.

I mean it's it's just a way of having a new story but under a brand that you have by infonotice.

What happened.

You know it's what happened in the 1950s and all the popular radio show us went to TV when actually I think that if you step into my time machine with me.

You know a lot of it does depend on his Henry like to Queen's is coming to TV comedy bang bang started as podcast.

Thank you know those kind of shoes can work seamlessly on TV if it's just two people sitting around you can watch them sit around on TV just as easily but when it comes to dramas one of the things that we made me think about three-way with when the Jack Benny program in the 1950s went to TV so flat it lasted a few seasons and then went off the air because the radar should be on for 20 years and it was that rely a lot and surreal humour and lots of jokes rolling like that.

You couldn't see anything you know and like you did say or why aren't you wearing any closer and then every would laugh because of that the end of the senior nice person with naked ETC in that kind of thing is so hard to translate and when you've built up.

I will bring the whole series of that big but I'm slightly down with the kids.

It's like a sitar second way of of that happening now because going to see anything TV executives are excited but I don't have podcast listener broadcasters though, because you mention two dope Queen's just briefly on that as a fascinating example.

What is two black American women who did OBS recording front of an audience on the podcast is not huge translation to put in front of a live audience on telly but for them owning the rights to their own show I mean ok everything in America is done with the little bit more of a business head on them here, but you know they're independent podcast is here in the UK and in Europe who can be thinking wow TV executives are very excited that that basically as you say you know that's an example of a show two black women there lots of other podcast they have that kind of diversity that isn't necessarily affected in TV like that's anything TV executives are thinking perfect.

They got at least we know we want to increase diversity, but we don't really want to spend a lot of money or effort doing it.

Let's buy all these popular shows that had that diversity and have a built-in audience and so we can just being translate that I Don't Know Podcast listeners who you know do you young excited now be able to watch you know their favourite programme on FX

Yeah, I think that's probably fair whilst we're sticking with podcast I promise you three stories next up an interesting analysis by wired on the stats that Apple podcasts released late last year any headlines from The Graduate dentistry number something about for me was that as I've got to go on the Arsenal about Arsenal unmissables which is a weekly Pop Culture a review mainly TV but also some of the film of stuff that I do not want to do is always have an hour writing duration and I'm one of those stuff to do my Arsenal won.

I was told by it because we were kind of commission by powers that be to make it that 35 minutes was the optimum time know what sort how do you know this is that the 3102 people stop listening as I possibly happy go back to the me know this is on my debit daily commute and this so apple finally took some detailed information.

They release if you want to about your podcast and it showed the effect listener so happy to carry on for hours on end.

Sometimes the longer the episodes of a podcast do better than the shorter episodes and so when they're playing our roles of advertising after the half an hour people would hear them.

That's interested.

We could you still have listeners 3545 50 minutes into a show so why sell the first minute compared to you know people being reached another medians TV what have you and I think that's that's so true and I think the difference.

Is is that adds a part of the culture of podcasting and way that they are not in any other medium.

You know when TV ads come on you don't you know God created at Bensons for Beds advert again.

Where is podcast because they have drawn most of their advertisers to be smallpools adverts for Casper you know for hello fresh excetera a part of the podcast in culture.

You know there was a really funny parody podcast called done disappeared a parody of all the true Crime podcast and then.

YouTube parodies of those adverts in a baby talk about they found her body torn open the door.

Let me say hello fresh.

It's great to see you sometimes.

You know it's fantastic, but not only not giving them as much as forecasters and appetizers might have fitted.

They're listening to them and they're taking them on board and I think that's great for everyone before the cruise.

I promise you three podcast or is I think this is probably most important one yeah, this is the third one this is coming this week.

We had the British podcast Awards will be returning yes early Man co-produced by producer Matt so obviously racing Post podcast already waiting multiple nominations for footballer City Arsenal and the I'm a civilian boy, but I definitely want some of this was something that I was about 20 million Arsenal ones.

That's very good.

This is what we want is no Rebecca what podcast this website themselves.

Yes, the entry fee is staggeringly low they're doing this not-for-profit.

What a brilliant but also to say nonetheless.

I'm going to hold back.

I'm only going to put in the stuff.

That's award worthy.

So many carry on but no it is it is a good genuinely I mean I wouldn't be involved in a cycle as a good thing to do for the whole of the British radio industry actually to have podcasts properly celebrate it still lacking a bit of love in the UK compared to in the US only got a dedicated.

I think there's a relatively dedicated listenership of podcast play not quite sure they will have we haven't really had a serial we had my dad wrote a porno it which is probably the closest Very British lipa, be the closest thing we had to cereal with a bunch of people reading out bad erotica podcast need all the attention.

They can't I said when we did our Media predictions for 2018 special.

This is going to be the Year of the UK podcast and you laughed at me, but I think it could happen yet, and I think anything that gets more attention to the world of podcasting in the UK is very welcome.

True crime rates, yeah, there's just time for our Media quiz which isn't too who done it, but there's this week's entitled famous last words for it from us at the media podcast to hold people to account for their opinions but we are going to do it anyway and has Rebecca Marino prediction special is still available.

I'll give you a quote you.

Tell me who said it and why it mattered this week in the media is the best of 3C buzzing with your name Rebecca you say retains the right to be forgotten that retains the right to remain here.

We go who said this here is quote number one.

I've always found the theatre stressful.

I've not been because you quit Boyd Giles Coren it was Giles Coren the full quote I've not been to the theatre, because you got to get there by 7:30 and I have to Bath my kids and put them to sleep before I can go out reminders for this story boy.

Zoe controversially was one of the TV presenters on the TV version of front row on BBC's on Saturday night and in the in the big publicity Blitz

To announce the arrival of this who presented the big story decided to go with it was the seller Broly hates Theatre which is obviously immediately alienated the Arts community my guilty pleasure.

How is your George Galloway anti? What happened this week? I need to come he tweeted that he was to continue processing fluid should replace a member of the cast of frontier on the radiator to the Premier leagues important to us, but it is one of the Broad set of rights.

We always have a plan b.

If we don't get what we want Rebecca opening times are often.

This is there talking about the fact that BT and sky as soon gonna be putting their bids in for the next cycle of football and that.

The with a big story for nurses at Facebook or Amazon may also try and enter the race and probably before one of the smaller packages that counts you get the point it was BT chief Gavin Patterson on the eve of negotiation the next tranche of live football rights.

Do you be a good thing void if Amazon does get premier football I would mind because I'm an Amazon subscriber and I will subscribe to BT and sky a so I might have to automatically just got to any service that is going to show live football by those who aren't either TV critics or football-mad or both your mum is at the phrase so I mean I can't afford it.

I mean soca Netflix of course you be interested.

I'll be fascinated they do it.

I kinda felt they do because it will as they say nothing Shake It Up maybe a bit do you think of Jeremy Clarkson presenting for the three of you who have asked me this morning was quite number 3 by the way.

This is all.

This is all to play for now.

I can get one.

It's right yet for the three of you.

Who've asked me this morning.

I am not a Freemason Rebecca

Really unfair because when I did this is one of the Telegraph accident.

I can't remember his name Christopher hope political correspondence Telegraph yes, this is a story that there are I mean you could have got this actually because I meant did mention at the start there was there was a clue scattered in earlier.

I have three Freemasons lodges active in Westminster one of whom has MPs then allegedly peers and its members and two of whom were open to political journalist according to a report regarding around have you verify that through a lot of papers have kind of fudge to the story to make it sound like it's entirely made up of political journalist, where is the the official statement from the lodge said that no member that they've admitted sincere 2000 has been a journalist.

So it would be more fun over a bit to make it seem a bit more salacious an exciting.

It is and it probably is very interesting at all and no one's heard of it in the lobby.

This is what?

Devil come out to say I think we all feel a bit weird at frankly that they haven't been in there that would be a good story well.

Nothing could be more salacious an exciting meant to say Rebecca you are this week's weather gratulations commiserations boy different pleasure to have your life.

That's it for today.

If you like what we're up to here on the media pardon.

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