Read this: #91: Talent Trouble, Cambridge Analytica RadioDays Europe

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show we radiodays Europe in Vienna to discuss the future of the industry with BBC Radio 2 from Shannon and back in Blighty we consider how the Cambridge analytica story could change the way Facebook is regulated plus will we be watching decs Saturday Night Takeaway who killed the enemy and why the BBC having more presenter trump and in the media quiz we play the good ideas game not to be confused with a bad ideas about it's come in today's podcasts and joining me today former journalist and TV exec now director of broadcasting at City University Liz Howell but Liz not for much longer.

No, no, I'm retiring and in effect next week and it's really quite a frightening thought I've been in the industry for 45 years lots of ups and downs but you know it's a great place to be.

What are you going to feel your time with sleeping?

Come here.

I hope I hope so yeah that be nice.

I mean this obviously we could do hold bow debrief about your 45 absolutely such a ridiculous speed of change absolutely basic things change and the technology Changes but the basic notes about the people that's always going to be the same.

What's the one who's always nosey is Alex Hudson deputy editor of metro.co.uk and Alex's if it wasn't obvious from your haircut alone.

You just been at South by southwest law centre with it ever has been it's very mean for you to say it speaks to the hipster, but still on Tuesday morning and I'm still on us time, but it was brilliant and I've never seen a bigger crowd for a politician like Sadiq Khan went any was followed round.

It was mobbed by people-to-people travelocity.com evolution.

How can you say Bernie Sanders Madness who is complete and utter Madness found like that? I've never seen a British politics that can be American have just taken to him.

What what do people in Austin like about Sadiq Khan I think the fact that he's a little bit different to the son of American normal what you get politics it helps a Muslim it helps that he's from London it.

He has that Perfect Storm particularly in Austin particularly to that Southbank Road he is very appealing to that's that sort of person is this is the kind of man you can go to know you have more time on your own and I can quite exciting big themes from Southbury I think the big thing was that there wasn't any big things the second thing is that so do you say if you spend the whole time drinking very depressing didn't even get drunk the networks finally taking responsibility as I was a huge thing, but they were expecting that the coming years and there wasn't that one break for all of this of startups.

We met.

There wasn't one thing Twitter said it was 10.

How many years ago there wasn't that sort of app? You say wow that's going to take over the world ok? Well, if anyone can get me free tickets to go.

I'd love to go with this a one-time delivery wait.

Let's start a new story this time with the BBC and freelance presenters there of accuse the beaver forcing them to form companies and workers freelancers leaving them with big tax bills at Liz what happened to you when I think it was cut in a lot of industries.

This is what happened in that if you were implying St what we Michael Talent is Talent they were encouraged to be on what we used to call schedule d which meant that the the presenters whoever they work form their own companies or acted as freelance operatives and therefore could do that a lot of tax and what really this leads to his that they're supposed to be able to replicate themselves so for example if it's how great staff and goes on schedule d and is a company if Les halles ill she has to send another Liz Howell if you've got to be able to replicate your work and HMRC of Beaker

The North and of lock structure that isn't it's in education as well with lectures and things like that and a stamping down on individuals and companies and charging them back tax the presenters are saying they were encouraged to do this by the BBC the BBC is actually at this stage.

It's exactly been taken a word, but it's not coming forward to discuss this because they're looking at what actually happened and but I do think not the saying the BBC but in the media industry.

Generally presenters wearing courage to do this pretty annoying for the people around payroll because these people would trouser ring me the tax in effect and you could argue that they're accountant should have told them, but it's the tightening of the leupold.

It's caused the problem doing a sensor problems caused by HMRC and we saw some of these BBC presenters talking in Parliament about this this week and what they saying.

Is it my fault but the fact is in the end, they did it and quite hazard be able to get to address on the grounds that they were told to do it.

I don't know me something tells you to go and commit murder in the end is not the person who tells you to do it who is necessarily at fault if you do it.

Very complicated chain of responsibility extremely sympathy for these BBC presenters cos it's not you know the same as the stories we've seen around the pay gap.

Where are you not talking about people six-figure salaries here.

This is people like Stuart linnell who presents breakfast on BBC Radio Northampton you know you can imagine.

He's just trying to do the right thing as BBC man in and then getting stiff.

I thought that was the normal thing so when I join the BBC in 2007 at all of the presenters in there was one maybe he would who was staff but the rest rule on this contract so I'd thought that was the way at work and I just I just didn't quite it didn't quite computer about why do I doing it because you know my knowledge of tax law now as a senior pass is a lot better than was dancing other organisations for example in the university when this was coming over the hill.

Everybody who was in a company like them doing it this way was warned about two years ago.

There was Santa letter another manager.

I was asked to inform them.

So where did that go wrong at the BBC maybe? That's the issue.

Assisting now that I get paid PAYE that's exactly what the company and you're being paid as a freelancer.

If only can't turn up Olly to is there that's the point I wonder how many of those slightly crazy ideas come out of the restrictions we saw on the BBC licence fee for a long time, but I just really save money.

It's all to do with transparency and in fact this as I say it happened to all sorts of organisations, but when it's the BBC it's right there in the public eye and because it's stars we are all very interested and we're always because we human beings fascinated by and which other people particularly celebrities earn so it's like a perfect storm again ok well since you mentioned stars.

Let's talk about ITV's big story haven't been on front of tabloids all week as well.

Of course.

They're telling trouble after deciding to go ahead with the finale of Saturday Night Takeaway without ant who has been charged with drink driving of course it would have been a fascinating.

Global week at ITV would listen to know how this conversation wins.

Ant and Dec without one of them doesn't seem to make any sense that the amount of people who can't even tell which one is work and let us remember which was all one and so just those sorts of conversations of can you search that can you have Take That without Robbie Williams can you have fillings without further and suggest you can you can bring in Holly Willoughby but it's very very rare that those things continue after one person leaves on Friday if it makes perfect sense if you think if anything the viewing figures going to be higher this week than I ever would have been because of the amount of news coverage around it and advertising with my friend there was there was that massive perhaps overblow Ferrari around this holiday thing the Orlando holiday.

We just do that quite fully of the services that they've given members of the audience as a prize or competition prize the opportunity to come and see the season finale at Universal Studios Florida which Fitbit marketing deal for universal but still I mean you could send them off on holiday without seeing and to text show and I'm sure most people do not feel cheated by that so yeah was that before Trojan horses or do you think may have to do the

To do it and I know that the scheduling of these things is unbelievably complicated and they got the bookings and they've got everybody line.

That is going to be difficult in a way it could be a great advantage Friday because the Ant and Dec phenomena would have to win some time now and so maybe this is a chance to try out of the people.

I've got quite of use on that the talent thing what happens is that when I started GMTV for example it was like I didn't start gym to be all by myself.

I was there to the conversation and it was enormous pressure from the boat to get a star you had to get stardew how to get study had to get a known person and in the end.

I didn't work terribly well for various complicated reasons are much smaller channel called UK living we didn't have the funds for enormous.

But I got some really really good people fantastic people became even more of a star than they've been before with that opportunity so this thing about Talent it's a bit like everyone always wants what they know works and they're terrified of taking new steps for this time.

They've got to do it, but it's a bit like I mean be able to the strange maybe crash comparison, but it's a bit like when they're Harvey Weinstein

Unfolding it wasn't like any Hollywood film producer league one right.

This is just like any bit of dementia.

Lee just saying you know what let's just cancel it it would be ridiculous.

It's a sure.

It's not just about him and I think they've done the right thing and I think Alex is absolutely like they're gonna get some sort of advantage from because everybody's going to be interested to see if it works.

It's a bit better because I'm loving the Top Gear you know everybody actually in the end.

I was a certain schadenfreude about that crashing and burning when it first came back wasn't there should be very interesting to see how this works but don't over 8 talent talent Sony Talent it's really important to note that these new Talent coming up and particularly is that the ITV of being that instance if this doesn't necessarily apply, but I feel it's a huge responsibility of the BBC to bring on new Talent without I disagree if I was ITV I just swallowed swallow the pus.

I just so you know what and Dec is Ant and Dec without and ringing people.

This format is not on Britain's Got Talent I'm getting quite worried about you.

Olly this fanfic station with Ant and Dec Olly Olly Murs presented Ashleigh wouldn't longer to get the viewing figures that satisfy the advertisers that isn't really an issue ok without a presenter News radio 2 will be continuing without the unofficial voice of the station travel presenter Lynn Bowles who is leaving after 18 years and nobody expects have the same job in media for 18 years anymore.

Do they think it's really important.

We have older women on Radio 2.

Please say you in some.

Where is a BBC Radio 6 fascinating when you do any research into this to find out that the people most likely to consume Media particularly radio in this country are women from the north of England over 50.

Who is the person least likely to be on the radio in this country a woman aged over 50 from the north of England you disconnect and women over 54 the north of England probably reasonably you know compliant with it.

They like them Radio 2 and all that but at some point the words going to get round and they're going to realise and they're going to be look like with me to hoot of expected that there will be a reaction and older women need to be taken account of what is a very interesting initiative going on at the BBC at the moment or 50/50 which is run by presenter call Ros Atkins and he's actually doing research into how many women are on programs and programmes have got to sign up then got to say they have to sign up discount.

How many women have got and it's quite competitive within the BBC who look p.m.

Is.

Not doing as well as today and it's a really good initiative them very interesting and as always the figures show that they're not doing as well as they think they are.

Interesting thing about supplementary characters on the radio as well isn't it in a we talk about the big presenters but for years people still say where is comedy Dave and Chris Moyles.

It's TV as well like David lander in the voice-over on Come Dine with yes, that's your way into the industry.

So so we talked about the back the lack of new presenter cappuccino tea's outside of YouTube it's getting your loved one bit as getting a 2-minute section every hour it's getting their present the weather like Tomasz Schafernaker ever know who he is.

He does 3 minutes now on the BBC news channel talk about Facebook and proof of something.

We've long suspected that companies are manipulating out personal data for Political ends came this week when the Observer reported Cambridge analytica executives using bribes and tactical smear campaigns against opposing candidates Liz how big is Googles this for the Guardian as a as a newsgroup and I get to a lesser extent Channel 4 in the New York City mazing scoop I mean in a funny way Alex now.

We're talking about this earlier and staying well.

You know they would wouldn't they and we're not that surprising actually the outing of it the fact that it's now in the in the in the charts.

It's really really important and I think that Facebook is going to have to really take account of his in when all that money is wiped off the share price.

That's what really hurts and it's something is going to have to be done.

It's it's one of those fascinating stories.

I think in the last year 2 years really interesting Alex how does Facebook's defence stuck-up which is a they did do something they did it years ago and said there's nothing to see here now until yesterday.

Didn't he stuck up too much whole point was that bazuka burgers silent and most of Facebook the Sabbath come out of yes, then today and really started trying to own that conversation badly and I think for better or worse Facebook doesn't know everything is going on its platform any one time so I think there's something that but it's not a company that seismic magnitude and importance can possibly defendant should have in it sooner had the Horizon on the BBC couple days ago.

Really nice piece around just here is how you deal with the crisis and it's everything.

Facebook hasn't done.

I don't do Facebook because I really clearly don't feel like that things can change will be made to the question isn't it cos he's what yes, it is part of the National conversation sort of but I still want the how much that's been dominated by people already interested in the use and politics were the generals of men women the street.

They happy exchanging their data for a free service they like I said he's such a big skibidi people didn't realise it went to this extent political.

I don't think they mind their data if it's about buying cashmere jumpers or something to be perfectly honest, but if it's about putting somebody in power then that's a different pair of that scoopers a case of everyone knew that sort of like a family that this was a case, but no one knew to the extent and to the level it was and I think anything that surprise you know not even for a second.

I seen anything that I didn't already know and I am.

Interesting facts about Cambridge analytica that we didn't know honey trap issue with the Ukrainian women that was sent to the tempting a politicians and telling you that I think in May when gdpr legislation is all.

I need to not be boring about this.

Have you have you even lectures about this? I got told off for being too dry when it comes in your own a lot more of your own data.

Anyway, Tony you at least and Facebook will have to address this in May you.

Can you own that date on every every company you give your data to you have they have to make reasonable grounds to delete it if you ask them to as a huge change in legislation you have to say stuff.

That's been compiled prior to this mate.

I'm quite confused about whether or not that's going to be allowed to be used so ways of working through about it any any date of the chazelle will delete all the data start again because we will have to will have to have Direct click a box of every bit of data that were accessing of any personal anything from any third party sites.

Are we doing that now? I think it's absolutely vital to any problem with fake news and obviously it's a problem with things looking like information, but aren't but if the political campaigning that people are seeing is legal as in it is it is not painful in Rubles but it is actually legal.

It's just that it's targeted against people based on their interests.

Why is that a British political advertising allowed to exist why shouldn't the Conservatives of the Liberal Democrats target me play some things that I've said in other posts UK it's I think it's funny cuz it's clearly labelled paid for by xx people buy white and as long as it's clear the same as all of our adverts now site that they will save like advertising Ltd clear that it's not fair and if it said paid for by xx if it's because a party political thing that's absolutely fine.

I think it's clever that using data to target people the Solstice it's the videos that you know 17 things and the list of calls and this and this other stuff that is if not clearly labelled as being an advert it just looks like it's a viral video or it's factually incorrect if it really is the case.

That you know Romanian family in Salford have 17 kids and they're all on benefits.

If that really is a true story in its reported by the Daily Mail on it's one of those man stories this you know clearly the exception to the rule but then it goes well, but it is factually true.

Is there a problem with you keep paying to have that story distributed to my FB feed the problems are enormous scale of this that the fact that its millions of people's data and it's been processed in a way that's going to sway public opinion in the way that those stories on I know I'm not putting this very well, but I think one of the issues with which way is as well.

It's all legal but all the bad are legal until someone makes them illegal and what's happening is that this is going to have to be looked at because it's deeply dangerous and discuss before I'm not with you to be fair, but can the government happened in the UK but now the senators are involved in Washington as well in the EU to do you think government's global regulation of global legislation that it's gonna be.

Bml transnationalism and the actual meaning for Global policy would be a huge StepChange and would be a wonderful thing for Global politics the global economy, but the likelihood of that happening is sadly very limited.

It was the annual radiodays Europe conference in Vienna last week, so we said broadcast consultant and media podcast regular Paul Robinson there, so you didn't have to go.

To Elvis Duran long time host of New York's Number One Breakfast Show on z100 about making radio Kinder Daniela Lindsay of Australia's national station Crum height on making the move to management and Midge Ure im getting his songs onto the radio the first is Bob shennan director of BBC Radio and music on the BBC's digital strategy and why it's not yet time to turn off FM since the launch of DAB radio.

Had to take notice of the challenges and the benefits of the internet and the BBC is no exception to that and indeed radio in the UK I don't think it it is an exception to that.

We've got a multiplicity of of challenges, but with those challenges come great opportunities and we need to reach our audiences in lots and lots of different ways with lots of lots of different content of which DAB continues to be an incredibly important pillar in our distribution strategy that we've made a lot of progress.

I think we all feel we made a lot of progress.

I think we all feel that a dab has provided us with opportunities to enhance the performance of Radio in the UK considerably through great new content office unit 6 Music alone reaching nearly two-and-a-half million people these have been brilliant Innovations that would not have happened without the advent of DAB and I guess what I think we all feel.

Around the radio table in the UK is that we making progress we're not quite there in terms of switchover.

We should review it again in a few years time and see where we've got two you talked about headsets and about to headset sales booming and across this smart sets are now doing amazing numbers and everywhere you go people have got something plugged in.

Listening but he said not all of it is radio.

So how do you get a bigger share of those years? I guess we've got to make sure that we're providing relevant content that meets the different listening needs that audiences have I mean radio is a very important listening need in itself and by radio.

I guess I'm saying linear radio that a lot of people do listen to We should never forget we have 32 million people who listen to the BBC every single week loyally and and they have high expectations and serving those expectations and

What is the number one priority that we've got but we also know that we're losing our impact amongst the younger audiences who aren't necessarily satisfied by linear radio alone that starts with a little drop off of sure because their capacity to consume other things as for Greater and in the end was seeing a little telling off of of the reach in the UK are monks 15 to 24 so as responsible public broadcasters.

We have been mindful of that and wonder what it is that they are consuming and and might want to consume from their Public Service BBC alongside the linear radio and I feel that this is where the IPO IP world gives the BBC a great opportunity to develop our existing audience facing services and to provide content that isn't necessarily just from those linear services to reach audiences who are necessarily listening to them.

And bring them into the BBC family how to get benefit from the Public Service broadcaster, and that's what we want to carry on doing so maybe new voices new Styles new tones.

Maybe things the BBC finds hard to Dukes the BBC I think I think it's a massive creative opportunity for us.

Yes, I think there's there's a huge potential for innovation.

I'm very proud of the creativity of what we've got more.

We do you know there is no broadcast on planet earth that commits in the world of drama at the BBC and audio drama Radio 4 commitment is phenomenal it's success stories phenomenal.

It's an incredibly precious part of our Public Service Broadcasting but because it's for Radio 4 sometimes.

I think it's hard for people to imagine what it could just be without being for Brand and and I think that goes for all of us station brands there so strong.

It's hard for content producers programme makers to to get a

Out of the mindset of thinking about how they can cater for a brand that so powerful and I think that's one of the areas.

I want to explore creating content that's from the BBC not first and foremost for a station and you know what if in the end as I expect much of that content ends up being broadcast to it will help refresh and enhance the stations at the same time are based around you just finished her masterclass.

You were inundated packed to the seems like the world.

Is it in a very special place? It is something that all of us in every country around the world experiencing and the need to feel loved if you're good or positive.

We forgot the key the key is one-on-one communication the key to being successful in radio.

I believe is showing people your heart and telling them.

They need to be showing people that hurt as well.

We need to be in this communication with each other this conversation with other that positive.

We need a lift people up and it's not being done enough people are coming.

He's I know it in the 1980s in in the United States really was about being old guys in the morning or in a bad mood and made fun of people over that doesn't work way to do the opposite.

How do you do that with a challenge with some days are better than others? I'm surrounded by people who are driven in her in the Rhondda climb to live a great lives in because that is so infectious.

It works.

I'm surrounded by great people but 22 years as long time.

How do you keep yourself fresh? I keep myself fresh because I have fresh farts coming through every day with interns or internship programs from the colleges huge.

Are we always have young people working on the show to keep us plugged into a whole world out there that I'm not plugged into my 53 year old guy when I know about dating you know I got it.

I need to know something about it.

I need to know something about what it's like going to college and I'm not doing it so surrounding yourself with people that were great keeps you fresh.

Do you feel?

Under any pressure being at number one because get his number one is one thing we had some guys say talking about being number two number three in their markets wanting to be number one.

You are number one have been for a long time but you came from way back in the pack.

So what's it like moving from being adding 18th 19th you said through his number one has that feels you you climb those ratings? I'll tell you how it feels today is I don't feel like we are number one.

I've never felt like we were that looks so impressive to meet someone who was a radio show this number one wow.

You're number one in New York is everyone so I actually stopping awaiting Network number one at work and I don't think about it.

I can't think about the race.

I don't think about ratings.

We just think about going in every day doing a great job in that weird.

Are there any things on taboo on use of other things you send a note that that's not going to work.

We would never do that.

That's not the Elvis Duran show well.

I always want our place in it does is always been the rule since long ago.

It needs to be a safe place for women.

Are women always win on her show if there's ever a debate with a woman we make sure everyone's heard the ID we've always maintained that women went on her shouting it's so interesting the date is the nature of of of our environment in the United States right now especially is women's rights making sure when I heard make sure they're taking care of your not squashed the floor in those days done.

So this movement is reflex.

What we've all always and how do you do that anything in the set-ups lots of women but how do you do the ozymandias 53? How do you understand the issues that women modern women are feeling about now really want you to maybe a dress on the show you listen.

It's it's simple as listening.

You know I think the key to every successful show or personality or without you open your ears hear what they have to say don't dismiss them so fast so Daniel invoice program director of

And hid in Austria first of all what's your impression of radar days would either women in radial like very much of courses that there really a lot of special sessions also targeted to women to encourage female Talent female host at the moment.

There is a brake pedal going on about successful women in radio and we had great inspiring speeches from Jo Stanley and on and on.

No it's good and you can see real change.

I'm in the Still of work to do.

What do you think of the barriers that why do women not necessarily see radio as a career option for them, but I think it's the same everywhere but maybe in the past.

We have been liking this this really good role models that show that it's possible to make a Korean radio and have a family and be successful and development.

Holland and just to have the guts to do it.

I think that this heart of women.

Are you saying because you're so many more things to balance of course.

It's hard if you balance a family and your job not only radio in general my parents to of course of course.

Yeah, but especially in Austria we still have the situation that most of the work concerning parenting shapes and homework and stuff like that is due to women because there is not enough support from the government from from the States the data concerning like a places in kindergarten that are offered and stuff like that that make you easily do your job be happy with it and also with your family and kids a list of micro need you are a DJ and you've become assistant PD how did you make that transition and do miss being on the air well? I've been I started my career as a locus.

Indiana and I had to had the opportunity and luck to bring two stations to life.

I was part of the pioneers of broadcasting and commercial radio Exeter station 8816 Rihanna after two years we moved on and had the opportunity to start the first national commercial broadcasting station kronehit and and I am very proud of her.

I am very thankful for and then I did the morning so for 15 years.

I'm crawling I had an interruption my son was born so I had a year off and get a taste of what's it like not to stand in the studio and being on the 8th 5 in the morning and to be really honest I kind of like today in the office when I get back and did another year and then my PT gave me the opportunity to step up and and work with him and for me.

It was like the the the the next January

Step because I did an MBA in media management and yeah, I don't want to screw up then.

I want to learn first and make my how do you put it that legal time so I want to pay my mileage you several times great and so much better yeah, and then we'll see what the future brings if you've never been to Newman Street in what estate agents like to call know how but the rest of a school Fitzrovia you might never have stumbled down a cobbled Ali looked up at the sloped roofs and attic windows and wondered what lies beneath well wonder no more because this is where you'll find run VT the post production house where the media podcast is recorded run VT has 15 offline and two on.

Mine editing Suites a bass-like grading theatre at dubbing sweet and an idiot proof voice-over booth for all your post production needs to see what the studio's at runvt can do don't miss when news goes horribly wrong on Channel 5 Sunday the 8th of April at 9 p.m.

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Thomas begin visit Oracle data cloud., to learn more confident media news in brief now, there's an Alexa still with me and Alex is fuming about Bob shennan.

Said just the fact that he said that the future isn't all the vehicles is not know who owns a DAB radio except that that probably brought that has a DAB radio that they didn't choose the future is internet radio the idea of FM existing in 10 years is preposterous idea of div exists in 10 years.

Ostrich they've made a bid to become the new regional home of Channel 4 after the 10 has been told to move some stuff out of London please tell us about this is with compromise.

Isn't it? Really really and then because channel fours in this peculiar position of having an it's it's licence and being supported by advertising but also you know having having a public service remit.

I'm one of the things that was a long time ago 3 years ago one of the deal.

Will be done with Channel 4 was it would have to go into the regions 104 Innocence as a bit of a normal and I normally it was set up in order to encourage independent broadcasting into it to break the stranglehold of the duopoly ITV BBC and of course that's that's long been in touch very old story now one of the questions that has to be asked.

What is Channel 4 actually for you know because it's exactly the same thing it can't it shouldn't be sucking the commercial and oxygen out of the atmosphere.

Get it exist it has a licence and it does some good things in order to compensate for the fact that they're running a straightforward commercial broadcasting organisation pretty well the compensation is that they have to go somewhere else and it's a bit like the BBC going to Salford in fact.

It's very much parallel to that.

I don't see why it should be Norwich know it sounds great to me.

It's probably more likely to be Birmingham because Birmingham is bigger and it's right in the centre, but you know could on Norwich Let's Take That parallel, then the BBC moving to Salford does that really made a difference to a what audiences here in terms of its sending more diverse than in a reflection of the country.

I think it has I think partly because people.

Unwilling to travel from London to Manchester I think that's that's a tricky you play me some law professors from Manchester University FIFA 17.

It's pure geography it's it's not anything more complicated than that of your more likely as a producer to get someone is half an hour away is taxi.

Can't break down somewhere on the M1 rather than the Channel 4 don't make programs in that sense from that it doesn't matter whether it's like moving the DVLA Swansea but exactly so if it doesn't matter we hear the difference whether you hear the difference on that doesn't really matter it means that some of that money that the government's putting into Media is going to be put into the Southeast or the Midlands or something like that when I say the South you know if Norwich gets a bit by the way this will be going somewhere other than horse very unlikely Birmingham moon.

Do we think

This field as you approach retirement.

I should ask your Channel 4 of also publish their pay gap female ratio briefly on this, but it is especially for you 28% 28% Channel 4 champion of diversity and inclusivity you but I went to a meeting each other for no reason article for broadcast magazine because at this meeting waiting there and going to the meeting of it.

I didn't see a single woman over about 35.

You know and it when they were all we know he still hadn't really high heel shoes on and you know it's really something they've got to address.

Let's talk about the week sprint winners and losers middle-aged indie kids shed nostalgic to last week for The Last of an ma from our streets although if you ask me we lost it when they went through entirely agree with that.

They are they watered there any was the music by.

And I don't want him to so many as I want to see TV listings i10 new exciting music and me pictures of Zayn Malik and I had a huge opportunity imagine getting that no one likes how difficult is because your Spotify picture of iTunes and you find out all your recommendations from now you Shazam something to get that enemy had a huge opportunity that return to that one voice.

Where do you find amusing muse NME and it could have brought her back to every kid picked it up everyone stop picking up with it wasn't the issue that the enemy didn't have a possibility of a future some people picking it up because it didn't have a identity didn't have a some silly have a soul.

I totally agree with that.

It's only at the platform is do if I didn't change that used to be the go-to place for your opinion and that changed and that's why they lost it ft was busy celebrating paper of the Year Accolade at the British press Awards at the Year DFT lizard great story, that's really made the ft.

Is the story of the Presidents club in the undercover work done by Madison married so there's definitely something about the F2

It's on the app.

It's a pizza Point around like quality journalism.

I think they want to make it very clear pointed that I watch Amityville the quality will prevail also secret chat to Gemma Collins you want to join in Henry Wood old Colliery Jonas nothing.

Would you have to go in there a great pace of the singer there is saying have this with captive audience of of corporates and companies that pay for the subscription so people keep talk about what a clever business model they've got because they're doing a specific nutri.

Specifically was still very very brave brave to make good stuff and you got the money to do it now.

It's brave to take on your potential advertisers and supported by going to be like the president's club and other stories bubbling at the ft.

Which animal split Ltd say but they aren't they are tackling investigative journalism in the finance area.

That's a very brave thing to do.

I know that that's 2018 and the award was the last year, but it's a psychosis going to the ftc pellets when we were just talking about so you have this guarantee distribution model of however many million cup of tea published.

Ok? Is it is it bright but it'd be a brave anime to actually still just report her.

Music News absolutely did they took the easy option of just trying to be timeout light zft have a subscription model they have the opportunity to do something really difficult lidos stories take months and months and months to stand up that's and it's good proper thorough old school jams and that's a hard decision to make even with a business model to keep doing that ok.

Alex metro has a bigger total print circulation than any other paper you've beaten the sunlight.

Are you working online BS8 add yoghurt to the paper deserves the credit for maintaining that keeping that physical paper going out of the cat, UK now is of course the quickest growing new site in the UK which will humblebrag around the humble break that step again.

Just to be clear my head of you that I don't think we have to work 220 million monthly unique users but we're quickest quickly grow up should exciting I think it's about value through the answer to what sort of stuff with the paper paper itself is maintaining it's working so well.

Well absolutely well done.

And all of it and again if I was to ask the straightforward question about business models regarding that isn't that easier to do when your appreciate to maintain circulation absolute the song that people have to pay for yes, but also is making people read the paper and so what tattoos has done.

It.

Spent a lot of time.

Just firming up that so if you could come over one day.

You'll see a certain thing every week.

It's about that sort of appointment viewing which digit always struggles with the Metro Centre longtown a lot of effort lot of money making sure there are those appointment sections in that paper that you know otherwise you'll see this because I'm on a Friday we'll see this and people continue to do that and that's much tobacco as creditors list for London commuters.

I would say if you think back 10 years ago when we have that weird phoney war London like the London paper at Metro and evening Standard are better quality than that used to be so you know what's going to be in there in it's also really clever are doing things about ordinary people like you know the girl you might meet you but I love that stuff.

Sorry I really do I am I'm always hoping to be the girl on the

Uber app emails about all the time you can't even tours like people emailing like hunting for people even away from that section so we can have them out.

Wherever we can really stories of the standard 2014.

That is not me.

I have to say doesn't work party ideas radio days Europe so buzzing with your name when you know the answer as you will say and Alex you'll say Alex is? Where do good ideas happen according to presenter Jo Stanley for my breakfast house at melbourne's gold 104.3 shopping or on the toilet.

She said number to play for who should not be writing your tweets according to media Potter regulus.

Macarena on the internet you have that.

Yes.

He said don't let the intern right dodgy social posts because you don't have the time.

I should be crafted.

You're fighting a battle for eyes and ears at Sage advice.

I feel his question 3, what does Stax Williams from z100 New York sink should reflect your audience? What should Lisburn the name of my fiance no Liz Inglis one is yes well done.

This is one competition as he approaches her retirement singles has the voices who sell your Station should sound like your audience and the tools you use to build station sound should mimic the tools your play listed artists use to make sense doesn't it? I guess equisetum which is kind of call Liz congratulations to you commiserations Alex Hudson if you like what we're up to here on the media pardon.

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