Read this: #94 - Press Freedom, Al-Jazeera Strikes, BBC Sound Effects Library

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm Ollie man on today's show how press freedom in the UK compared to the rest of the world clue, it's not great the BBC partners to sell podcast ads and why algeciras London staff are striking all that plus life after mornings for Matthew Wright and what losing the debrief means for the industry plus in the media quiz we take a trip through the BBC's newly released SFX library to play what's that sound and join me today is the editor-in-chief of Business Insider UK Jim Edwards making his Media podcast debut welcome sir.

Thank you for having me and freelance journalist Louise Ridley and millions of the show What are you working on at the moment?

I am yes that is one of my special projects at I mean.

It's going to be fun, but it's going to be high minded as well, so we doing a live blog and lots of other coverage, so I'm running that big exciting event were big global publication as well, so we have loads of interest rate US how do you gonna balance what the American audience want to know which is actually in the strength of the way.

I imagine more into the pageantry of the tradition of the British audience.

That's very kind of fun and informative that sort of mixture, but I think you know everyone can watch the wedding on TV but we all know that when we watch TV and things like that were on Twitter now, so it's that kind of idea of a companion bring interesting stuff that are also going to be at parties around the country, so will be said of watching Britain watching the royal wedding with a lot of fun kind of what a pristine Palazzo you're going to lots of street parties.

So it should be great to the royal wedding.

I don't think I have actually it's because I've always been in other serious news or business news, so I've never got I've never been dragged in I have written about Business Insider UK royal wedding.

Serious news that Ashley we do a ton of that stuff but I personally just don't do it, but you know we have we have pick we will be as obsessed with it or more on in the day comes.

I was once charged with fur coming up with the list of fun facts about the Duke of Edinburgh for Prince Philip to pads time with probably the Jubilee I think golden.

I don't know I've been around awhile.

What are you up to gym and the editor-in-chief of the UK operation and you know it so I run I run our office we have about 50 people over and Aldgate and one of my specific roles is Hamilton the international editor-in-chief so we have 16 different country auditions around the globe Business Insider and my job is to sort of improved quality of them helped them encourage them give them guidance on staffing and what they should cover and also occasionally prevent them from making mistakes, how much time do you spend on curating the homepage for example rather than

Katori chaat fire station that is a really interesting question right now because we're internal Business Insider week.

We are actually sort of rethinking our front what the football is the function of a front page and how useful is it and things like that several years ago Business Insider had a very very long complicated front page and we are obsessed with all day every day and would change it on a minute by minute hour-by-hour basis however since then I don't know how much detail you want on this, but you know traffic cone traffic traffic to come from Google on Facebook and people see new stories in their feeds and that is there real front page that the front page of any given brand is very few individuals actual front page people.

It's not like 1996 where you would open up your computer and check your bookmarks for your favourite things that doesn't really happened anymore, so we thought you no probs off front page is less of a thing that used to be and we we sort of wish.

Obsessing over it the way we used to and we put Ursula fewer resources on it.

We didn't REdesign it we actually tried to sort of bike automate as much of it as we possibly could having successfully done all that we are closed now wondering that perhaps the Pendulum had swung back and it's exactly the same as soon as you finish one project someone says maybe it's time for a rethink on this work start again.

Thanks Liam big companies hold into a thinking about this all the time so I guess we bility you know the stuff that people coming to via social might be the more gossipy clickbait stuff that you want mentioned on the Today programme of the front page of huffington.

Post is a different thing.

That's really put on the front page you still have an element of of what you want to show to readers.

Where is now he obviously know that people would use their.

Favourite stories, they may not be the stories you think are the most important of the day but you're still setting agenda with the front page to some extent.

I think ok because that is indeed what it is today the 3rd of May the day of recording at Britain has ranked as the worst place in Western Europe for press freedom in the annual reporters without borders index.

They said it century the UK is behind Norway South Africa and Jamaica if you're interested North Korea is at the bottom of the list below Eritrea Turkmenistan the Siri and China have you spent using the US how do you get the UK approach to media differs from the US to be deserve to rank below them in terms of press freedoms we so the US situation is completely different from Britain and for an American as well as a British person and doing journalism in Britain is completely different from doing it in.

And it's quite depressing because British people don't realise how few free speech and Free Press freedoms.

They actually have there's an enormous amount of restriction around reporting on the courts and criminal Justice and things like that would literally prevent journalists from publishing through accurate fat in very many cases for those doors of design.

Don't they so as not to influence Jurys Inn so on yeah, so what's wrong many old? Would you change about that that would have I got better in America their freedom of information law is probably a little bit more robust.

There are fewer exemptions to it.

Although it differs by administration to administration the current administration of course the trump administration doesn't care at all about three formation act but nonetheless.

It's a little bit stronger.

There are stronger precedence for shielding a sources.

There are the army they have the First Amendment which literally says the government cannot make any rules that restrict Creed

At the press in terms of trials.

Yes, I totally get that the British system is devoted to preserving your right to a fair trial and not poisoning a jewellery with coverage before the trial starts at starts I get that but there are also many many cases that are of that are really important cases to do with the public interest to do with corruption misuse of taxpayers money where people have absolutely no idea this is going on until the information is years out of date because some of the some of these cases only come to trial you know years after they were first picked up.

I mean Louis Jim's talking almost as if we are in North Korea there and within shield them from all sorts of information.

Is it as bleak as that and you work on a lot of long-form stuff where you are investigating things that are going to come out and you caused you feel like you're being held back question.

I think this study.

Is is pretty important and I know that we haven't actually got worse than got better.

I think we write number 40 out of 180.

I'm countries in that study the other part of it is always interesting in terms of why they said we rank that low is to do with hostility towards journalist which is kind of a gas of vague concept but clearly sounds very frightening and that there was this really good example of this chap who was banned by the police from attending the labour conference last year in Brighton and recycle centre Annan he was not allowed to attend the conference had no idea why eventually found out few days before which is that the police had said he couldn't attend because he was an extreme left-wing activist which doesn't seem to be the case at all and he's covered the conference many times.

He's a member of the energy.

He has no criminal record and he said he was really resorts in his Stead of challenging this buy some chocolate.

I think but that kind of thing where we see.

That was the police but we see some of things like football clubs banging jealous that they don't like covering their matches and stuff like that a bit more.

So there is the son of concerning atmosphere a little bit hard to put your finger on on many examples, but it is an atmosphere that I recognise from that report on.

I think it's concerning the difference between Britain and America just for comparison.

Is that in America it would be straight up illegal for the police to decide which journalists can attend which meetings but for some reason in Britain this is normal practice and the Labour Party in fact has asked the police to do security checks on a journalist this as an as an American this is regard this as insanity but in Britain I think was Wirral sort of like used to it.

It's the culture in the States actually be done by the parties themselves over the democratic party say who couldn't couldn't come to their convention is not worse.

Yeah, so the Trump is the extreme version of this because he famously created these.

Pens for journalists and he put all the forestall the journalist who are covering his campaign to sort of stand at the back of meetings inside literally a metal pen like cattle and then from the stage he would point at them and you excoriate them and rail against them and get the crowd to do them and apparently if you were jealous on the campaign trail this is enormously intimidating of some of these somebody's people carry weapons of the trump version but I did the American argument about that would be is it a private events and if you're having a private party you have a right to say who's on who's on who's on the guest list doesn't know there's no state Intervention the local police wouldn't be deciding who gets to cover trump and who does not ok, but isn't the Microsoft thing in the football Street flag precisely news because there are exceptions and actually generally speaking I'm looking at some of the criteria that reporters without borders were looking at and one of the things they mentioned for are low ranking was for example that the Home Office will be at this was under Amber Rudd's may be old news now.

This was trying to crack down on encryption via WhatsApp and that for example if you repeatedly viewed extreme insta videos you might be flagged up as a concern that those are to stop terrorists only those rules.

I can't imagine in reality if the police discovered.

You're a journalist conducting an investigative report that they actually going to say right you're going to be arrested.

It's the stop terrorist.

I mean I guess it depends on what does happened hope that wouldn't happen and you have cost a lot of these laws there about surveillance for the purposes of security, but I think part of the end snoopers charter has just been found to be a legal by there was a silver Peel from Tom Watson and Liberty which found that part of to these powers are supposed to be used for finding serious crime and criminals and tears and things like that which of course we do hopefully support but the the case recently involving liberty and and Tom Watson essentially found that these powers are not been checked in the off so actually even though yes the police could use them to find criminals.

Are the bodies could actually use them for other purposes and there isn't enough oversight over these powers so that is concerning when you think about journalism and saucers and things like that.

So it's not the sort of intention that there will be misused.

I don't think but it's in terms of how we checking his powers and how could they be used I think we've had such a crazy moose the last year so we can't really not expect anything.

I would say ok.

I'm actually on Malaysia their new anti fake news law has scored its first victim recently tell us about that the moment and the first person to be convicted.

He's gone to prison.

I believe Tracy went to go to prison rather than accept a fine is a Danish citizen who essentially said something he made it into the case he made false allegations about the police by saying they took a very long time to responsible calls about the shooting of an academic.

Made a mistake what does happen in journalism does happening news? I don't know enough about the case to make the call of whether he did it maliciously or not, but that's the key is to have laws where you're simply or if this is case putting someone in jail because they got a piece of information wrong if they got it wrong in good faith that very rare concerning at the police.

Just don't like that rather than correcting it as I say, I'm not sure of the details of the case, but it sounds concerning and I know they're big and quite reasonable standard concerns about this.

Just being used to essentially muzzle critics of government's in countries, so M5 fake news is not quite the term.

I would use there so you can see how this would be abused right.

It does look like this guy was simply very angry at the police and wrote a false report in the hopes of generating some bad publicity about them, but they were here would be that the law clearly gives the police the power to charge journalists if they can find anything incorrect in the story there right now in journalism everyone knows and I hope readers know this as well.

Elizabeth Chester it's a first draught of history as a rough draught and butter and part of the reporting process is you get the best facts you can you publish them and then later new information emerges and it may well.

I mean we make mistakes.

You know and we issue corrections.

I will try to be transparent about it, but you could easily see a situation in which angry police officers sort of use innocent mistakes against you to put journalism prison, so that kind of anti fake news law it is quite worrying ok.

Let's talk about on the beep sound scandalous xfer talking about BBC podcast listeners outside the UK that they will soon be hearing adverts after the broadcaster announced a partnership with a cost to monetize their podcast at if you don't know who I cast are they are an ad injection and hosting company in fact you are listening to a podcast that is hosted by a gust right now.

They're the reason why halfway through this show you hear that little sting the guys.

Did he do and then here and add with Harry Hills voice?

Something Jim the BBC already carries adverts on BBC America for example, doesn't it? Yeah this any different now? It's exactly the same thing.

So why is it taking so long? Do you think for the BBC to partner with an ad company? They've got this hugely popular international shows Desert Island Discs Mayo and Kermode and all that money has been on Tapped I am you're really triggering me here because I Love Her Go just this is one of those issues, where I'm going to go all Daily Mail and it's a bit.

It's because of you know I'm half American it's not because I'm a Daily Mail reader.

I don't read the data hello, but the whole situation with the BBC and the role it occupies in the British Media environment is to my mind really really strange.

You know we we ask people to play to pay what is essentially A poll tax they will put you in prison ultimately if you don't pay the poll tax to fund the BBC and then the government has a massive Media arm which makes news and situation comedies.

I mean it is literally a Soviet type setup IPv6 the government is of course the BBC doesn't great work and it's value for money.

I mean that's white persist not a mouthpiece the government or not.

They're not a mouthpiece for the government but the fact that they have this massive guaranteed funding can you imagine how big Business Insider would be if I could Force every single adult in Britain to pay 150 quid a year to find what we do.

OK Google why is it taking so long for the BBC podcast back because they don't need them because they're so I'm sorry.

I was going on around the BBC occupies this incredibly exaggerated a disproportionate area of the media environment which if it was computing properly and has generated revenues.

It would never occupy all that space.

So yummy mummy earlier Louise do.

Natalia so it it's a logical move.

So yeah, I'm not completely going to be a bit on the side of Soviet extreme, but no surprise that seems logical ready.

I mean I must say actually as I suppose you might say, call myself a veteran podcast a bit about be called that in other places are so many did podcast for a long time one thing that is a bit tricky about the a cost model and I know this from feedback, but I've had to some of my other shows I do it men's magazine check with the modern Man for example listeners have written to me who are in places like Germany and Denmark who have heard an advert inserted into the shower in their own tongue and then written to me saying either why you patronising me you're an English Language Podcast why have you got ads in German or they've said do you realise your feeders been sabotaged by someone who's inserting out and making money off it and of course that is the a cost model working.

That's the idea that wherever you are in the world you get an ad that relevant to you.

The fact is podcast listeners.

Still have got there.

Around the fact that technology exists a cut of their address that's alright.

That's the whole model working but it's not the model working at is alienating listen.

I think they should take that as a bit of a compliment that people are so interested in the advert writing in to give you the day with you about them people ignoring them.

I so it so I can but yeah, that's it interesting expect them to be in the same time that you know if you think about what might have to happen in American listeners.

Head.

You know people who are listening to NPR in the like.

You choose the BBC cos they're getting English perspective.

They get an American radio ad in the middle of the show it might turn them off now.

I think so used to it though, because the BBC's cable Channel in America is quite a big deal and Americans do watch an awful.

Lot of British television Downton Abbey being at one point all of America was obsessed with Downton Abbey a 1.10 in fact.

I can't remember if I was a BBC show or not, but you know just sent it wasn't just the actor watching British people on television.

It's very very normal in America

Casting modelo, yeah, I do think the BBC should do more of these things I think what you're describing here to pick is to do with the a rather strange specific operation of BBC's international operations which are commercial and try to find themselves as as opposed to the BBC here in Britain which must be free and must be delivered free to go because of them the licence fee tax situation and all rest of it, but it is a good example of something.

I've sorted talking about before which is the BBC is good value for money because you know we pay 150 quid we get doesn't channels and loads of programs is also very bad value for money in the sense that the BBC has an absolutely massive archive of Fantastic shows which most of the time we cannot see you know on iPlayer shows disappear after food after a few days and the BBC has what 60 or 70 years of amazing shows that we'd the we have paid for and cannot see because you're in Britain

So I think the BBC actually should monetize the heck Adam itself on all of its content going all the way back in the library or Archives of stuff.

We paid for monetize that and let people see and enjoy advertisers funded if they want to and we get to see some of it and maybe we could cut the licence fee as well.

Ok, let's talk about wpp we mention this last episode obviously Martin Sorrell stepping down the advert now plans to offset their debts by selling their stake in vice Media amongst other assets Louise what do you think is the strategy here? I think it's is not surprising that he'd cwp be going quite a different Direction after my sister are leaving at 7 see a huge moment for that company but also for the Hall of advertising.

I used to work at magazine called campaign which covers the ad industry and interviewing Martin Sorrell few times as one of the most exciting but terrifying moments of Mike Young journalism.

He didn't but he's fish and he's here.

Come up with a singer on ncell shaft and that was very season of Marvel guy in terms of building an amazing Legacy from what was the seat of plastic and wire company in acquiring things like mad.

It's so you know whether you guess whether you think that's impressive or not.

It's a statement and it's a load of career that should be looked at with interest around buying a lot of these things that weren't anything to do with advertising.

I mean it seems like now.

He's gone their strategy is to say we don't really like let's let's maximize revenue in and get rid of all that yeah, I think it's something like that and it's at I think wpp haddad had a long-term strategy of not really exiting and selling steak so it's a big big change they have quite the debts.

I believe there.

Are you two companies so vice Media I think my own 9% of that so they're gonna go ahead and do that I mean clearly.

It's it's a statement from the interim management to do you know maybe it's something key.

The company wanted to do and obviously Martins are always so much in charge that now they're trying out some different stuff.

I think it's understandable if it considered in the same way that would be rather than expected from them such an influential person instead of leaving a company here Excel voicemail, when you this is going to be the height of their friend a young thing now.

I would say we can fight right now is really low they just had this massive me to sexual harassment scandal the brand summit on it isn't it's inside wpp which are also considering selling such as appnexus and I do wonder in the end of SWAT that makes this is so loud online advertising company if it's one of the few competitors left that still has the kind of scale vs.

Google or Facebook and are based in New York and wpp is full of strange assets like that the varying sizes this.

Tess of wpp was that Martin Sorrell built this massive Empire that I think was technically the largest advertising Empire on earth and now the new management who are quite driven by the fact that the stock price has gone down and has been quite low for sometime best-selling off bits of it to generate cash in and presumably in the hope that will raise the stock I would I would say you screw with wpp is winning Formula at your peril.

There's a reason it became the biggest in the most successful.

Yeah, the stock price is a problem, but selling off the Crown Jewels just to generate a bit of cash that feels very much like short termism.

Yeah, ok so Martin Charles obviously a noise a great many people in his in his life and clearly as annoyed someone on the board of wpp but yeah, I mean I think you screw without Empire at your peril does a reason it was successful and do you think the right not to publish the findings of the misconduct investigation into obviously as a journalist.

I desperately want them to.

List of findings and if they don't publish the findings actually I would prefer it if a person inside wpp League to those details to Business Insider you can reach me a j Edwards a business in spite of its interesting and impressive that it has not leaked so far actually given that presumably every single board member knows about it several lawyers must know about it's all himself knows about it and sorrel.

Famously talks to a lot of journalist there unless is really embarrassing is not talking about it, but it actually quite impressive.

That's not late.

Yeah.

Ok time for some of those ads served at Barbara Castle back after this.

What's the connection between Michael Portillo and the Eurovision Song Contest multi coloured trousers questionable views on Europe no, it's both featuring shows for nest at run VT Studios the central London post production house has 15 offline and 2 online editing suite a bass-like grading theatre at dubbing sweet and Evie

Save a bit of it's basically everything you could possibly need as a creative being if you're interested to see what run VT Studios can do for you tune into when Eurovision goes horribly wrong this Sunday at 9 or Portillo's hidden History of Britain this Friday at 9 both on Channel 5 if you want to edit your next show go to run bt.tv servicing media news in brief now Louise and Jim are still with me and as Warren G would say let's regulate regulatory action in the past fortnight includes Matt Hancock calling in Ofcom to look at the trinity mirror deal to buy The Express and Star titles from northern and shell and Louise what do you think Matt Hancock is worried about hear it doesn't seem to me like the Daily Express is that powerful a title that it really matters who owns it doesn't know I mean when so trinity mirror see misty logos.

Doing our loan over 100 titles.

I can a rebranding and being called reached after doing a purchase.

I see what my Hancock is around about is the plurality issue which is kind of become a bit of the biggest thing on the on the horizon recently.

We've seen some consolidation.

I think that is the meaning put a statement trinity mirror saying that the titles work in a they retain their independence and if you think something like the mirror and then the Express perhaps in a weird way, they look at some similar audiences, but they're very very different politically so that makes sense and you couldn't couldn't merge them into one or anything like that.

I don't seem to have two titles with such different political persuasions and it was anything they could emerge them now, they would they would they would be forced to move them because they serve completely different demographics.

I suspect Matt Hancock is really worried about the fact that trinity mirror which unit controls the mirror which is the left-leaning tabloid will eventually sort of dilute or weaken the voice of The Express and

The Tories are just worried about losing a Tory newspaper.

I think Stafford Express and probably overjoyed to be joining Trinity cos it's a proper media company run by grown up adults who care about news in and they have some inkling of standards and ethics and spend stuff like that, where is there Old Owner at the Express was just a terrible useless pornography so from that point of view and not worry about the set-up and I'm going to disagree with you Louise on one thing actually if you look at the online numbers for both the mirror and the express express is surprisingly strong online and again and expresses like the male one of these papers.

I find vasili reprehensible and I attempt to avoid them in my life, but you know the readership is plastic is really strong online so it it is probably is a thriving business buried in there somewhere which would hopefully trinity mirror can unload unpick and leverage up.

Un editor of The Express he was grilled recently and he's he's come along knew that he was talking about the old coverage of The Express and saying things like he thought that the coverage of Islam was very inappropriate and he felt ashamed of it and all these things which was really quite a moment and very interesting going to be interesting to see whether the Express therefore goes in a different Direction which I can't really see it all to you because that's kind of what it does so Indians in time for the Express definitely in terms of what what will happen to going forward under a new owner.

I think it'll be quite interesting news.

Ofcom are investigating rt4 impartiality.

Do you think the Russian network is going to survive this particular grilling from Ofcom it will definitely survive because it's funded directly by the Kremlin British television.

Yeah, I know but it deserves its place on British television it complies with the regulation under British regulation it should not survive because it's obviously not following the broadcast requirement for abouts is it and it's just not so on that on that sort of technical legal basis.

It should not survive but again as an American it opens up this weird question about what does freedom of speech look like what does a free press look like what what what should be the ultimate rights that we have and you know all that although you're doing is broadcasting a TV station.

You are not forced to watch it.

Nobody's forcing the cat in fact.

It's audiences incredibly small they're broadcasting a viewpoint.

Yeah sure we disagree with it and the factory maid disagree with it because we think some of its facts are wrong, but they're not you never not committing crimes.

They're not like buying I can't believe I'm defending RT here by the way.

I'm obviously not defending our teeth, but just in terms of the principle of do we have a right to broadcast controversial.

Using Britain raises an interesting question specifically whether those because you're right you kind of look at the media landscape now with this plurality of channels and online voice is everything else anything is it that important of all the fringe channels are is impartial as you know BBC and Sky News understand that point but getting the facts right is different to partiality isn't it? You know that there is an issue about is everything they're saying true.

Yes, but do you want the government? Do you want the state to have the job of deciding what the facts are and I'm not sure I do I don't want a government regulator coming over to Business Insider and saying that you're outa story of the other week and I disagree with it and I think you're Factor wrong and therefore.

I'm going to impose penalties upon you but you're not transmitting on satellite television so that make a different stories.

You know is it right that Ofcom should be regulating over arctic to the current laws checked because it's interesting differently.

Casas regulated from online for example and and press you can get him out of partiality.

We have in our press compared TV it is quite shocking difference which is more influential than broadcast TV or the press as we know them that the tablets in the papers or people like having to post a Business Insider where we have in a we have massive audiences online the Honest for Business Insider and I know having a post as very similar our audiences on many times the size of most newspapers in this country and certainly many times the viewership of Sky News for instance and yet we attach the special importance to broadcast as if as if they are especially influential and if they get things wrong with a bias.

That's especially dangerous the real action is Franklin online.

Why is Corbyn the leader of the Labour Party because he didn't bother with the media certainly not broadcast Media he went straight to his supporters online where he has a much bigger reach than most mainstream Media titles that we know about interesting fact on this site each module in NHL

And I'm one of the top facts I talk to her at the Beginning is there is try to get them to guess when the overlap happen when most British people's news was received through online as a poster TV and that switchover.

You know it could have been it was 2016.

She's a lot more recently than you would imagine so before 2016 TVs been in massive decline online with a massive rides at the crossover point when online officially became the place where most of all is that the writer's need Institute study that we're looking at when online became the most influential sources of most people use for NEC 2016.

So it is still recent crossover, so I think the influence of TV special on the older Generations is underestimated from us or looking at a younger audiences, but yes, they're online is definitely for moreover.

He just want people but there is still older audience who are watching TV a lot as their main source of news which essential thing.

I'm just a trust issue.

Isn't there of course I get.

Can you use first three online sources but I do sort of wait until Hugh Edwards tells me at 10 p.m.

To be sure that it's accurate I know what you mean, but I think that is the power of about 100 years of branding and equity and brand equity and how you feel about the new source inside your head that actually turns out to be enormously valuable and it is one of the weird reasons why although Business Insider having to post have these huge audiences and where we know we loved by all people you know thinking people including myself.

You know I still listen to the today show everyday to see if they're setting the gender.

I need to care about but often it's ridiculous because the online audiences a far Far larger than those carried by the BBC on many days ok speaking of which actually online brands.

Let's talk about the debrief a female Focus online magazine owned by Douwe they are the latest casualty Louise of what they call content consolidation.

What does that mean? I mean?

Debrief which was an online only brand launched in 2014 and there's no more so they said a folded it into gratsia, which of he has a print and digital edition the good news recurrence after it's a sad thing for online media definitely at the good thing is if the proposal goes ahead there won't be any job losses be debriefed and little be going to work, but it's sad because they breed was a really exciting Lord Chancellor big fan of women's medium do lots of talking about women's issues name is becoming more in the media that can a thing you're the right age and gender for that title when it launched so when it launched what they did really young audience of kind of women's BuzzFeed although your database.

It is also many female which may explain why they kind of struggle that I don't know but they did get loads of really fun silly stuff about sex and gossip and stuff like that but also.

Good women's issues newsletter great campaigns around and sexual reproductive health stuff around renting made some proper impact around renting laws and did some great stuff that they probably didn't really get the credit for but their audience absolutely love them and when that news broke that they were closing you had so much sadness online and there's loads of young journalists who have had their first big break their and that can a thing as I said, there's hopefully no job losses is the proposer des habits great, but it's it's sad more brand is good and brands aiming at a particular young kind of socially conscious audience young women is is are needed that you don't mind in the last year honestly how many times a week did you read the debrief? I'm not bored so I don't think that's the stuff.

They were doing was really really great and exciting and it's just I always find it sad when I kind of women's space online closes because

Issues around in a domestic violence around contraception all that kind of thing still don't get the play they should in the media that covers all kinds of issues Steven Spielberg maintenance phone Lisa business.

They will get the cover they deserve it.

Will just be under the brand of gratsia and that means more to more people making sell more at what's wrong with that.

That's what management always says when is consolidating Brands to be honest it make you mean my technically be true, but it's not really true.

I mean did you breathe was actually really good.

I was a judge on a journalism awards panel recently and I won't say which one because we haven't given the Awards out yet and you breathe had entered some material into the awards and I enjoyed that lot they're mad about the pill series was it was it was really really good but mental health implications of contraceptive pills.

Yes, yeah, does taking the pill make you depressed and do doctors care about that kind of thing and how many women are affected by that someone Auto IV and you know it was powerful interesting personal stuff.

It was stuff that were.

Not really being addressed Elsewhere and Louise is absolutely right.

It was cool that there was a space for this particular type of journalism very focused addressing a specific audience the same thing about it is and we have this conversation is in the media all the time and there's a massive difference between what people say they want from media and how they actually behave when they reading consume media and that's why I asked Louise that very cynical question two minutes ago.

How often do you actually click on the debrief? You know you will you will find journalist inside editorial room saying are we should do more of this we should do more of that why we're not covering.

These.

Are you know minority interests spaces? Why are we focused on this mainstream stuff for the whole time? You know it's not fair.

What we should do these things and the sad depressing business reality of of the answer to many of those questions is well.

If you try doing it.

No one shows up to it and there's no revenue stream.

Attached to it either which is very which is.

Ultimately probably why the debrief is being folded well talking about revenues unionize staff at Al Jazeera have voted overwhelmingly to take strike action on the 9th of May after 4 years without a pay rise.

That's because Al Jazeera say that they're making funding cuts across the board and they can't afford it basically and Louise do you think 4 years is too long to wait for a payrise? I can't say anything and outs of this book that sounds like a reasonable action to be taken in their circumstances.

I'm sure people are very unhappy.

I mean it's so kind of common story.

We seen a lot of unionizing especially across digital applications globally so it sounds and sounds like a common media predicaments and cutting fans is obviously a common predicament at the moment as well.

I'm doing you mentioned but I need audience for tea early English I think it's probably fairly comparable isn't it where he gets a lot of certainly microscopic? Yeah, there's a lot of coverage it sorted fights above it means if you want some really good where the journalism they done a lot of the

Type of journalism that other journalists really pay attention to those it's another interesting case in the sense that the journalist complaint all the time I was not enough international coverage of foreign affairs.

We should do more of these were the stories about the global Cena stuff like that and Aja has done a lot of work like that and guess what people like to read about football and soap operas and what's happening with the royal family in Theresa May and stuff like that news is surprisingly weirdly local I think I think that's a part of it.

Also think of fact that you know Aja ultimately is only controlled by a royal family.

That's probably not the best structure for a media organisation.

It's also not the best structure to plead poverty with him.

Do you know Qatar has its subject blockade in the Middle East right now and there are there economy has he usually suffered and are presumably even Arabic royal family's their incomes suffer from these from these kind of things to them.

They might be strapped for cash around that.

I have I have honestly I have.

No idea, but the universe ocean thing actually really interesting I got to hear a list of all the online media publications that have seen unionization drives recently not quite a long one go Kerr DNA info gothamist vice fusion the root salon the Daily Beast MTV News thinkprogress Jacobean the intercept thrillist and slates do I say slate twice? No, that's quite a lot and some staff internally at business inside out of raised the question you know should we be in the union? Would we do Union be allowed in her stuff like that? I think conditions of Business Insider a really pretty good and no one seriously ill think of doing that at BRI but it is very very interesting to me that this does a new generation of people who are millennials for want of a better word.

They are very very interested in unionizing media.

It may or may not be a good idea partly require special Union within biv.

I mean you've got the nuj and BJ of things like that can be pretty be a lot of your stuff.

I'll never thought about joining.

Yeah definitely I have an interesting story which is that I have never done that any day not through particular ability towards or anything but actually because I looked when I was a student and I decided it was too expensive and I thought I didn't review often enough in my more higher earning days now, so now I would definitely consider joining a interestingly.

I've been uniting movements that BuzzFeed why use to work and half price now in both cases about forming a chapel within the energy so it's not about setting up new Union Union to such and it's interesting that so much appetite for it and these are often quite good places to work.

It's I think it's I think my view pals isn't exactly it's the kind of thing of people young people realising that digital media is exciting in terms of lots of jobs for a while, but it's really unstable and that's what we see you over that he is it can be really tough safe.

I think that's hit hit home and and it's definitely a trend that spreading so it will seem more unionizing movements online definitely a long time ago when I go to the newspapers in New Jersey I did briefly tried to start at the Union in my new screen because we were paid so badly and it was entirely around pay but the situation in Britain right now is the complete opposite of that there's almost full employment for journalist.

I mean we are desperate to hire good people and we can't we can't get them at the market is extremely tight.

It's like mystery to me as to why people feel they need to join a union in an industry.

Where simply changing jobs will give you a pay rise, but I think the other of the broader issue than that is that some of these companies are nothing by Isis one of them.

They use a vast army of freelancers who are sort of on this long-term promise.

You know I'll keep freelancing for us your get a job.

I will give you a job eventually and then they don't get jobs as a freelance writer quite low so there's people that are like what I'm just working full-time for lopate here.

So now I need a union.

You know they have friends and allies inside the company and it's like that so it's it's very much a function of if you treat the people who work for you badly.

They will end up wanting Union ok someone who's had his job for a very long time is veteran Talk Show Host Matthew Wright who's announces leaving the hugely successful daytime TV show The Wright Stuff after 18 years at the helm and Louise The Wright Stuff was very much my choice of date.

I'm doing when I was a student.

I don't know if you share that wasn't exactly things I was so why do you think he's decided to call it quits he and he said if he wants to spend more time with his wife.

I don't know if that's the case then not that sounds amable.

If so, you know it's a really long time in the show does bear his name so I wonder what his going to occur now, so surely.

Get out of the Shadows I have no idea but I mean it and then the BBC's medium blogged that and he's work on the show blocked that the reason behind Matthew Wright leaving might be essentially that it wasn't enjoying it anymore because the show is now made by ITN Productions Robin princess Productions and that was a result of Channel 5 essentially having found out the rice produced the show to the most cost saving bigger.

That's a warning that everyone could listen out for across them was there a lot of dilemma cover staff changes as well done when they switch did the people not keep their jobs.

Well a lot of them didn't and also I mean.

I don't know I'm not upset but I imagine you know The Bible change new people in charge is only so much you can do isn't there with the show like that you know you've got the same repertoire of guests and presenters, so I guess the editorial changes and I have been for 18 years, so I just not doing this anymore one of the stray.

Just things are it is particularly important in media is retaining the culture of your company or the culture of your Newsroom all the culture of your production house and it does it is about retaining some stuff, but it's also about transmitting it to the new people and the one of the things that almost always happens when someone makes a move like this is cost-cutting measure in there.

They say you know how we're cutting jobs over here and we're moving these tasks to these are the people you've not really worked on the show before or on the product before they managers.

Just think it's just going to transmit and be seamless and it and it'll be fine because everyone knows how to make a TV show will put out a newspaper or stuff like that, but when you'll be in tangible value of many media Brands and I suspect it will be the case with this.

Show is the internal culture and traditions and the the Sword of the short and they used to put the show together.

It's it's that stuff and if you ask that because you think that is a piece of margin, UK

Take that's one that's one trouble starting.

It's a thing we have a better thing to post actually has the same problem because you have like us.

You have like a tonne of foreign Editions all over the planet and you know the culture comes from headquarters it comes from the founders Inn in our cases in New York and Son of transmitting that and getting the new people onboarding going to understand how we do things and what our way is that actually is the hardest part and if you get it right you will succeed but if you get it wrong.

You just end up with a bunch of random rubbish that no one also look at them.

I talked a bit about this actually had those you campaigning around a whole different issue, which is things like sexism in the media and sexual harassment and things and one of the things I thought of in terms of culture is that is very hard to convince a lot of journalists to sign up to a culture because sometimes jealous and can be such an isolated activity in terms of you know you're alone reporter.

You're going out your almost quite competitive with all your fellow reporter.

It's not a kind of we're a big family Viber many places and and it's a real struggle, but I think I do think digital places are quite good at it now and there's especially I've worked in not supposed to the American headquarters.

They really pushed the culture thing and it's there which I think is really good, but I think it's a struggling a lot of journalism offices where they perhaps more Legacy ones and Fleet Street and things like that.

Do they all feel like a big family with one culture? I'm not really sure they do so I think the show is better at that personally then some other medium a pastime family should say if you are requesting for a host.

I am available nikit Vivienne clore dot.com there is just time for our Media quiz home now this week's refunded the Archives of the BBC's newly released special effects database available for free will play you one of the very special effects all you have to do is guess what it is buzzing with your name when you know the answer to Louise you will say and Jimmy will say this voice box first.

Let's go his clip number one.

What is this?

Jim Jim that sounds like baby goats it isn't Louise maybe it's a sheep.

Yes, it's a particular type of sheep.

Can you guess how many sheep are in fact a Scottish sheep? Do you know why it has a Scottish accent? It does in Honour of the BBC's new digital channel 4 Scotland which has been given a provisional Green Light by off, It's already recruiting journalist.

This is resourcing Scottish accents sheep half a point to Louise here is Cliff number two.

What's the exchange in that is a cockerel crowing isn't gym peaked too soon again Louise would you like to steal the point from him? What's the thickness? No no no another one is that? No, it is the mating cry of young donkey location on though.

It is not what is this BBC sound effects library bear in mind that not all documentaries out of a gym.

Is it something from Doctor Who yeah? I mean I suspect it's been using Dr.

What is that the thing that goes up and down in the Tardis it's a flying saucer taking off which means with half a point Louise you are the winner of the federation if you want more fun with FX visit BBC SF

X.ai propolis.

Org.uk and the joy that is it for a show for today my thanks Louise Ridley anti Jim Edwards if you do go gym or just feel sorry for us.

You can help the media podcast continue to interrogate the industry visit vmedia podcast.com / donate and select a voluntary subscription to help keep us going all year round and of course you can hear previous episodes and get you want as soon as they're released by subscribing for free on our website the media podcast.

Connolly and the producer Rebecca Drysdale sharing the media podcast is a PPM production and until next time.

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