Read this: #99 - IGTV, BBC Sounds, Google Podcasting - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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I'm on today's show Instagram raid YouTube territory the end of all white shortlists for BBC management.

And he's Question Time fit for purpose plus our panel discuss the new BBC Sounds app Googles foray into podcasting and why the Guardians got into bed with the sun and in the media quiz we dive into Facebook's new magazine.

That's not a magazine to guess the missing word.

It's all to come in today's Media podcast and join me today is Rebecca gillie journalist at the week.co.uk Rebecca we last saw each other at the Cheltenham Science Festival doing a Live podcast yes, he did the week unwrapped first ever live show.

How was work for you.

I thought it was terrific.

We were terrified that there'll be nobody there because we never done a live show before so you know you look at the numbers of listeners who have but you don't really believe that they're there and physically seeing them.

There was amazing actual genuine forms of the telescoping handle Radio 4 genetics.

Dr Adam Rutherford and medic unit the end and we will like these as this is going to be all rather heads asking him questions about what it's like to be a sexy scientist, but the first question was Fast and it was about like what how we forgot past episodes of the Podcast episode of podcast mind-blowing I'm addicted consultancy folder Media what's happening in met.

Well that they would be making the love Island podcast archers been going very well number one podcast in the country beating things that the World Cup podcast from BBC which is amazing and paranoid which is even better because they talk about it on their own podcast but it's been really fun to work on something connect to a massive show for my TV and get to see how all of that works and also hoping this means more mainstream podcasts and if you have a TV show want to give us a call everyone for you and I'm not a betting man but if I were who should I be putting my money on to win la vie.

I will Jack and Dani of a couple of choice at the moment.

He seems to be getting on very well.

It's only daughter of Danny Danny Dyer daughter of Danny Dyer and but tonight so if you listening so trying to give the days probably yesterday yesterday and they Rebecca I have to listen to people at work and my social life and everyone else talk about it.

Jamie who works with me things to think that it's very clever because it's a pun it means laugh.

Also there are more of them.

There will be some exciting new proposals from Ofcom commercial radio deregulation media mediums and so what, saying is if you're a local radio station.

Happy to do local news every hour in daytime.

You now only have to do 3 hours of local programming from a region.

I think it's one of her eleven regions in England and they're quite a big regions.

So that would mean something like heart.

I should have 8 regions in England so something like hearts now.

Could have 8 mid-morning shows in a different region and then the whole rest can be network from Leicester Square should they decide to do that? That's quite a big shift from a lot smaller hearts doing local breakfast and drive.

So it's a bit shift.

Also means no local content on the weekends to so basically if you're listening to this and you host a drive show for heart.

There's a good you've got 50/50 chance Avenue of coming onto your job really well, I think for the radio groups in the you look at global babe.

Some of a regional capital FM's for example the current rules me naked network the whole lot which they don't use to do only comes down to local sponsorship anthem.

Chillies advertising if that strong in Regency keep local shows at if it's not I think they're Jerry's together and protect you reduce the amount of local programming a bit of a kind of let the market decide and the state of the free market end of me says surely in today's world where we cannot always comes stuff.

You should be able to decide how you make your output and Elizabeth they like it or not and the sort of radio nursery goes.

It's a bit of a shame that there is going to be the Christies to be well.

When all those stations were first networks the Promise was made.

No it'll never happen that I'll be complete networks.

I'll never be true networks.

They always going to be a local part of it.

That's why there was this provision and the fear that was expressed by people who didn't want that the time was there has to be this provision and then he we are all their fears have been realised that the provision has been deleted all the things have been written.

Not yet.

As far as they could do with some areas so I think comes down to you decide what works well for you for the business and local talent and lobby for it, then.

I think this you need to stations are going to have to respond to that as well and the BBC have rebranded there Radioplayer app as BBC sounds meanwhile Google have launched their first podcast app at what do these apps offer that went in the marketplace before that so in Apple world on iPhone iTunes / apple podcasts with the colour find a slightly annoying or not as being the default place to go to read to listen to podcasts, but I'm on all those devices really easy entry into the podcast world something like about 60% of all podcast listening is through apple Podcast Android which is much bigger platform.is hasn't really had its own native.

Forecast Abbas lots of I want that cost boxer player FM that people use do you do you have an Android phone? I do what what podcast player FM Rebecca ok? So I have an iPhone now, but I actually use pocket Casts because I once had an HTC and discovered it there and then realise it's better than the Apple make it was there are Solutions there are but just as we heard they're trying to explain that to listener so you can find my pocket yeah, it's quite difficult Lincoln where should I link two if I'm a podcast so what Google have done is be baked in podcasting into search.

This is the things slightly different so in Google search review search on iPhone podcast will come up with play buttons and if you hear any of those it brings up a kind of Native app and you can stop subscribing to think they're trying to make it less go to the reduce the friction in listening to podcasts and make it easier for people telling to them.

I do think that they were Rebecca's it a lot gets talked about it's the double tap.

I think people call it so that you subscribe.

52 something and then you press play when you choose to listen to a podcast so you're making more of a commitment as a user do you think there is a marketplace for the Casual kind of all I was just Googling Donald Trump and all his a thing and I press play.

I don't I don't know that I think that's gonna have an effect may be on people already listen to podcast I don't get skinny when you people over but the great thing about podcasts on the iPhone was that it was built into the iPhone it was already solid communicated to use as that's part of the experience of having a smartphone podcast a thing look he's your podcast app.

Where is your having to go and find and download on for an Android phone means that it's less likely that someone casually just become involved the good thing about the about Googles idea is that they can I use their you know they're already had an extraordinary knowledge of everything you do that are going to start recommending you podcast based on your preferences and tastes and I think that is a really good feature and I mean we know that they're great at knowing what you want.

So I think we can trust them to suggest some good stuff the other thing I think they're good to be doing is.

In effect transcribing all the podcast that are uploaded and using that within search so when you do start to search for you know Tanisha words and phrases it will pull out and link two points in podcasts and that I think Reading to bring new people to support cost and to expose things to listeners.

I think I can only be good and do we think that the future for this isn't just Android only I mean all the other Google products are available for iPhone as well.

I use Google Maps on my iPhone and I want to Apple feel about that.

Yeah, I think it will be it will be cross-platform and wasn't things interesting about the app is if I playing it on my phone and I get halfway through and pause it when I go home and I go to my Google home.

It will pick up where I left off to the trying to make it clarify Google home being a device that you're so you're all I have my Google home.

I have my Siri home going to you.

Got a good result cos I haven't given any details, but they're going to invest in bringing more diverse voices to the podcast in world and just think they said something like a quarter of the top up card sized by women and even fewer than that by people colour.

So they're going to be investing in that which I think is a good thing because it podcast started out a bit scrappy and survival of the fittest a witch does tend to privilege sir.

Voices you can you know reach reach a wider audience more easily, so they think this is good at that good investment and discoverability is still an issue.

Isn't it up solutely, it is the biggest the biggest issue in an iOS where there is some form of curation the form of the charts and yeah, what's on the home page, but it's still a really small amount amount of podcast that can be surface that way and it seems to get trapped in that world and very hard to break through if you're not on media organisation and as I said it's not just Google but have launched a new thing this week was also the BBC's new mobile app tell us about that Rebecca the cool thing about this is that you'll be able to listen to you.

You babes tune into radio programmes you no listen to past shows at been on podcasts probably say they have I think they certainly in the region of 80000 hours of archive audio which is starting the does definitely give it an edge over in a most other You Know Podcast providers in that you'll be

How to go back to know if you go on iPlayer see they've got documentary some the 1960s and they like all that kind of vintage material that's so interesting and I think that's definitely I think BBC is going to struggle a little bit to make a name for itself as a podcast provider specifically playing having that huge amount of archive audio will give it a little unique selling point without the crucial feature that makes it feel a bit like a podcast app when using iPlayer radio which is the ability to download a program so remember.

This is a phase 1 beta this BBC sounds is going to replace iPlayer for radio but probably towards the end of the year.

It's so they going to release more features.

I think downloading Chromecast is the next feature that's going to be on there.

It's a clean up.

There's clearly try to minimise the crowd around around it and make it a very easy listening experience about the other thing that I believe they're going to ask if you listen to things they said of the past couple of years and Andy

Sort of Internet in little video that they've been using to promote it is adding music to it.

So there is some discussion as me some discussions about a sort of Spotify ask service for every song being played on the BBC in a month.

So I think that's you got live radio you got on demand and podcast something III elements going to be an easy access to a lot of the music archive and that becomes quite nifty products English been talking about is whether they can open sounds up to third parties and other UK content to be listed in it.

Yeah, they play for this to be a podcast app.

I think really and for that to be successful and they've got to allow third-party content in there and from that point of view Rebecca do you think it's right that the strategy seems to be rather than going to be quite would see is now but what is going to be rather than going in like you do on the radio player app through the Radio 2 Logo or what happens to be live on 6 music right now you actually go in by clicking on the pitch.

Shooting galleries face it's all about the content is not about which BBC brand it comes from yeah, I think they're definitely thinking a lot wider than you know then there's this is being a facet of the British broadcasting corporation providing more services, but you know the BBC Radio is being more accessible.

You don't have to have a licence will be in the UK to listen to the radio content so they've always had that kind of extra level of freedom.

They are trying to reach a wider audience and I think like that stuff.

That's definitely a good thing cos I think we've gone past the age where you can just think about this is like I'm just another BBC product for pheasant for UK listeners Amazon curatorial elements in it too.

So sort of workout playlists of speech content be there podcast Allure radio shows so back to the discovery point earlier.

There is a desire to do that.

It's quite seen at the moment, but there's clearly and ambition to do more of that ok it would you cover a lot of product launches on this show and most of them you can kind of be like Luna take that with a pinch of salt, but that she seems to be.

Your Google launching a podcast app at the BBC effectively ditching the iPlayer brand for radio apps moving forward at seem like quite big news and this as well Instagram have launched.

What is in essence and online TV channel is called igtv and it's going to broadcast user-generated content alongside video from established brands ABBA that's not the whole story Rebecca this about portrait view as well that everyone's least favourite format for watching video portrait view.

So there will be no landscape option in igtv everything bichon portrait, which does razor question of how branding and respond to that because everything is really going to be have to have to be custom made for Instagram because there was going to wanna watch it on any other platform like that.

Got Snapchat yes Snapchat it's been a lot of people saying that this is supposed to be their rival to YouTube but Snapchats probably a better analogy because they are obviously thinking about it very much in terms of branding celebrities.

You know that kind of thing and don't you?

Currently have video on Instagram but it's limited to one minute this can be limited to an hour and you won't be able to record and upload directly through the app like you can at the moment for video you're going to have to make the video beforehand upload it said obviously not intended for you know scrappy Street reportage is very much did was slick output on your phone that is interesting isn't it? Mad because Instagram thing was always phone first.

That's how they made a name for themselves was saying back in the day your iPhone camera shit, but yous are up and when I filter on it.

It was all designed for a mobile phone.

It's actually this seems to be saying to Professionals edit something first then upload it in portrait mode is a slight professionalization of the service is there looking at igtv what's been uploaded is people have film longer form video on their phones and then just uploaded it from the phones.

So you can still do that, but it's not the hold down the button and

Recorders out as I'm talking to it.

I think what's interesting is young Voices I'm more than happy to watch vertical video Instagram stories is huge platform and takes a huge amount of time for young groups so the idea of these being a longer Instagram stories really I think works fine in Tralee back to Love Island other and on the podcast 10th May was one of the winners from last year co-hosts the podcast news on Instagram all the time but he's a sort of featured provider with igtv soap reality telly.

He was a hairdresser and so he's created a series called kems cuts where he cut someone's hair and interviews them 8 minutes long shot beautifully and very much not a camera phone thing he's got a huge Instagram audience and him sort of spinning off his own little mini series.

I think, fascinating and I think that's what Instagram have got in their heads though.

I think it will be.

Shifted towards more utca people just recording salonga.

On their phones and woke me up telling her do I get my haircut in 8 minutes though? I think the haircut is long about the interview time.

I guess we Facebook video and Instagram both being owned by Facebook this could give Facebook an advantage over Google in video.

X I think Instagram is such a busy app and such a successful at the true stories alone at the moment.

That's a massive challenge to YouTube and created and YouTube being a platform for bloggers in creators.

I think a lot of that's moving to insta and I think igtv is the next stage of that so I think they are away on the road to take him on YouTube in a user behaviour has a short attention span and millennial.

I go on Instagram I probably touch the screen every like half a second yeah, when you go through Instagram stories.

You don't even watch to the end.

Each you know each clip.

You tap tap tap tap tap the idea of that you know something was that I said something about an hour and igtv doubting the fact that you can watch a National Geographic documentary as an hour-long.

I can't imagine ever doing that's not where you go to my attention span is not in that mode when I go on Instagram that kinda going to struggle with the kind of the sort of form clips.

I think they could definitely give YouTube and Facebook around for them.

Put it into a separate app and it's surprising what they done both have a menu click the button on Instagram and it flips between the two apps are really ok and it's lights off in the main Instagram need for them to do that clearly a reason that they sort of split away and they're trying to make it a different product that is marketed from Instagram that picks up all your people you follow and that helped Curate what you see the reason might be that it might not work as a bit pretty music.

Trying to suggest that this is a different experience to the regular jam experience but why would say is Instagram connection with audiences particularly Young Ones under 24 is so strong in Harry destroys Twitter it's something that everyone is it in there in a very good position to make the 6s.

Ok? Let's not talk about the kids and stop talking about 79 year old David Dimbleby The Veteran presenter of question time has an LC stepping aside at the end of this year to return he claims to his first love reporting out of I suspect it will take a holiday first at that age Rebecca what do you make of dimbleby's quarter-century at the helm of Question Time and broadcaster and he really tries hard week in Week Out but it's just it's just become awful.

I'm going to be honest.

I haven't watched it regularly since the referendum.

I just found my

The pressure was going through the roof constantly.

I think the thing is it's not dimbleby's fault that it can be degraded to the point that it has but whoever takes over.

I think there's going to have to be in a fresh look at how it works because at the moment.

It is just red face people shouting at the promise that there is an hour cost of professional trolls sort of columnist, extra.

There's always been around to some degree, but now people have worked out to they can make that their periods spotting and of course I want to be on Question Time they tend to be right wing so the BBC panacur like we need some more balanced people and so you get presnell trolls on and it's not a decent discussion premier the reason for that.

There are arguably isn't actually anything to do with the media industry its political reason that you have these colonies filling up the panel now.

It's because since the Coalition basically government ministers didn't want to come on your pants for the underside of a reason that when you have the Tories and Lib Dems they would disagree with each other and they want to do that.

So you've ended up with backbenchers slightly crap quality politicians going on so they have to make exciting by having a belief in its ok.to use ok now.

They want to voice their you know the pinions to big big politicians didn't get anything angrier and then no you don't know cabinet minister.

No Prime Minister work as salt is ever going to submit to the circus.

Are they ok, so we don't like Question Time now ok, but returned to my original question David Dimbleby 25 years.

How do you write his performance matters 50 service of the nation well done a bit too long.

Maybe she's gone 5 years before probably but then politics changed you know in a way that it felt.

I think if I was him.

That's not the so you probably wanted to leave before the correlation between that happened in servitude.

He wanted to leave before the brexit happening to see that through then trump have and it's like I can get anywhere in Alanya week, I reckon.

Treehouse at her hat into the ring almost immediately an excellent excellent Twitter thread where she said I'm qualified and id like to be considered and I think I shouldn't have to come forward and say like this.

Is he definitely will be considered as she said she will be know how I did notice that on the BBC zone article on their website about who might replace them will be the photo was of Kirsty Wark seem to be a favorite.

I like every other job presenting at the BBC I presume Emma Barnett and amol.

Rajan will both everything goes well.

We'll be back with more news in brief after this potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true.

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Wooden staff diversity matters getting every six months I've never seen it to such a senior level management interviews will have to include a non-white candidate never seen a firm didactic issue like that, but yes they do seem to be a lot of diverse plans within the BBC announcer.

It's all it's a good idea to try and dry forward to a point whatever where organisations are more representative of the public they serve them out at the moment, but so should we have to do it of course I should be entirely based on people's skills and although such things but guess what that doesn't work.

This is the thing isn't it? So it's shocking isn't Rebecca when you look at photos of the BBC's I think 96 top senior managers and they're all right, but obviously seems wrong.

It doesn't reflect the country.

However you see this debate.

Don't you within Oxbridge colleges, as well people say well there.

Isn't there be a 8 MB representation there should be amongst the top universities.

And there isn't but the university's say where we don't want to dilute the quality of our interview process if the candidate aren't coming forward that the problem lies with the school system and societal problems you could say the same thing if you want to invest in BME in the media, put it into apprenticeships and support and whatever lower down the scale not at management level you don't want to be the token candidate to have a different looking management.

I think it's this is the issue.

No, they want a few non-white faces up front and Center that can be you know can appear on point of view and talk about how much power they have but as you say it's actually at the first time you think of was the Oxbridge debate you need to have a talent pool to draw on from Lower down.

The ranks if you want to have a more diverse management.

I mean that's yeah.

That's just common sense, so think really this it needs to be imposed lower down to have a serious impact on otherwise they just in case the BBC trying to poach people of colour from other organisations to be management within the BBC where is a representation argument.

In the you have to see people like you to think I could do this and I think that is that is important and that cuts across life in general and for the media which is more front and centre.

It is important that everyone sees people like them, so that they think I could do this and I should work hard and discuss this will be what can happen if you don't seem like that if you're going to have positive discrimination.

You should apply across the board not just the management have a management position as I say seems like the problematic area to put it rather than everywhere else.

I think it is still an issue across the whole organisation by think it is less of an issue lower down.

Let's talk about representation of women as well as an interesting article this week Rebecca showing that researchers in the US have proven that women journalists get her dress on Twitter than their male counterparts voice of authority issue.

Do you expect to get your political news from?

It's the same reason that they are was pushed back in the early days of women news readers in over the idea was the mending want to hear that serious important news from a woman because they wouldn't you know they wouldn't take it seriously well seem to prove that men don't want to hear the serious news from the woman only is not just a case of this not an inbuilt prejudicial mean they went wrong at the time, but I think we've evolved to the point out that when you switch the news on and see a female newsreader.

You don't start tuning our expecting them to talk about you know fluffy kittens, so I think there's definitely room for evolution on this but but while democratic platform are female journalist not getting essentials MailChimp product platforms women have constantly got the short end of the Stick anyway.

It comes back to the singer.

You know when you have as not survival of the fittest but you know do you have an open platform men always tended to dominate even when there's no theoretically no reason that women shouldn't have an equal say it tends to pan out that way anyway which is why they often have to see can I buy artificial intervention to ensure more parity bits of Goo

See how we can do that on Twitter I'll be also women get disproportionately hard time on that platform which is surely.

It's going to encourage them to interact and post behave differently at which I think makes it easier for men who don't have the same as she used to sort of carry on and that was out in that report this well, because they found that not only were the female reporters retweeted lesson interactive unless they actually tweeted less overall than their male counterparts as well which is probably to do with that kind of backlash the high-profile women to get on Twitter is a link like Antrim the name of a baby can get in the shylights where you can order your account to your Twitter account and it will show what percentage male and female who you follow.

It's ok.

I was gonna say what percentage male and female you retweet that's interesting because it like a lot of this is about other journalist tweeting each other so part of the study.

They looked into the beltway journalist which is the ones who have admission to the white house and they found that the mail journalist.

Retweeting each other more than they wear their female counterparts even though there's I think almost as many female journalists in that press back is man that I presume in most cases is genuinely unconscious in a most political journalists would never say publicly I prefer reading the commentary of other men and yet.

They are retweeting the male voices more bats fascinating.

Isn't it? When you're reading their tweets all their articles.

You're not me know.

They're not really achieving their own voice or in person in front of you.

It literally is just the most superficial bias and also worried.

You need to follow anybody except for Maggie haberman.

If you're following the white house and finally in our diversity Roundup Rebecca tell us about strong black lead out.

They've got together all of the Black Stars of the various Netflix Originals and they basically reenacted a photo called a great day in Harlem in the 1950s which brought together doesn't.

The prominent jazz musicians and it will kind of lined up on her stupid a house than on the street outside so they recreated that with them black stars of Netflix Originals it's got very powerful voice over the basic message being that Netflix is supporting diverse actors and sort of going up against the idea that the reason there aren't more women and people of colour leading movies and TV shows is that they're just not there.

It's too hard if you remember casting the live action Aladdin this saga that we kept hearing about how they couldn't they couldn't find any Middle Eastern actors who could sing and dance and act which he was ridiculous, so it's kind of fighting back against that it looks fantastic and I think the thing that stood out to me either way, so is done by Caleb McLaughlin who is one of the kids and Stranger things and the voice-over specifically mentions blackness, it's not namby-pamby language about diversity and we've all got stories to share.

You know they called out the fact that it's about blackness different ways to be black and that gave the impression.

The Netflix is really about engaging with different community isn't telling their story is not just paying lip service to be very kind of trendy zeitgeisty thing at the moment there.

Isn't it Oscars so white and all of that that's the context at which Netflix I put this out.

So yes, they are reflecting their ideas and yes, they are champion black voices, but also they've made this little film that because it's quite a cool thing to do in Hollywood at the moment.

So I went there is a positioning angle as well particularly against existing networks and it plays into what Netflix the trying to describe which is there the new form of television America of always be much better at reflecting diverse voices haven't met because everything's commercial everything's based on can we have heard in a 4 days? You've been hearing about British actors moving to Hollywood to get more of a chance.

I'm a good roles but I was to think that black lad programs avoid being very marginalized and kind of pigeonholed into in over.

This is black TV is being crossover opposite Cosby Show she's been going.

Like like that but a big crossover hit but then she think about all the stuff like lean.

I like I like my sister Sister there was always those programs.

They were you know really heavily characterized as black medick Netflix is definitely made a big step and saying these shows of the everyone but they can still retain elements of black nurse or do you know Asian nurse? They can be about women but they are still intended for diverse audience list of bad advertising this is an intriguing development a one stop shop to buy digital ads which is going to let brands by space at the Guardian the sun and the Telegraph all at the same time at tell us about this so the newspapers.

I've seen Facebook and Google just steal the advertising a lot of them have run ad networks on their websites where programmatically bowl advertising a happens, but people are buying things that aren't necessarily connected to the locations.

Are you the media sites?

It's more than buying demographics or retargeting allow sort of things so all those places.

I've always had their own sales teams that have so premium advertising around their their products, but they think there's a cannibal Middleway somewhere that's not quite programmatic and not have to just be there any sales teams they pulling some bear inventory and basically saying why not put your display ads next to high quality journalism that we all make and weak wrist joint venture that will allow you to do that.

I think good luck would be my my suggestion the sun I mean that the sun and the Guardian yeah, I suppose fast-moving consumer goods may be advertising both and see is a better quality place to put their material.

There is a concern about you know progress guide to going on bad website to record poor quality content.

I think it's probably less of an issue for most digital.

Appetizers and I think I probably cope with quality rules within your programmatic platform rather than go or let's put some spend in this new entity.

I think it's a good idea.

What do you think Rebecca my brains to think what products can you put across the Sun The Guardian and the Telegraph and the only thing I can think of is Mary Berry the only thing I can think of the readers of all three of those websites would be like yes, I will click through all three of them are selling strong opinion on a strong opinion based on fact that some thing I mean every different opinions but if you've got a product that it's about personality that you don't want it ending up next to some far-right extremist studio.

That's the way to make sure that you've got a broad sweep of opinion and your piece next to it and they guardian at least has gone to Great pains to say There's Gonna Be No editorial crossover.

You know those they're not gonna be working together in any other respect and readers of those papers will probably think gosh.

You know how is it going to be like this.

Work these are all different but such different papers do if your end Advertiser you look at that New Jersey demographics.

You don't look at it for a passionate guardian read it.

You'll like I got nothing in common with the Telegraph reader Advertiser looking at that.

You're like wealthy middle class people.

This is very easy to advertise to all of them at the same time.

I'd also if you want to reach guardian audiences also star audiences through programmatic networks, you can do that.

You know you can look at people who visit that website and then retarget them across and still premium sites.

It's not like going on random blogs or whatever you know you set your rules yourself, so the other thing is display advertising is the clapper end of digitising and what everyone wants to sell anyways more high-quality integrations.

They get them a premium rate.

Which a central body is going to find difficult to sell because that, it's not going to run across the sun and the Telegraph so you might have to sort of thing that they might as well try and band together to provide some scale to try and get.

Tom Petty's away from from Google and Facebook but is not going to change there then models is it an acknowledgement as well that that sort of sponsored content news story but you see at the bottom of those websites currently is terrible.

I mean it's it's detrimental isn't it to what the general public think of is the quality of the journalism they see on that website and I get loaded by Dragons Den stuff right.

I'm a big fan of Dragons Den obviously my cookies tell these websites that I am and so I'll be reading something on the Guardian about Theresa May something completely unrelated and then in the related stories sponsored stories clickbait bullshit barbell being literally a fake news story about Dragons Den is being cancelled and here's why 1 of course I clicked it.

Cos I might no don't cancel Dragons Den and I get taken to a fake news website from the Guardian it is I know because I work in the media.

What's going on, but it is detrimental to the quality of that brand provide equality journalist.

Yeah, yeah, they shouldn't be on the Guardian of the Telegraph literally hundreds of millions of pounds.

It's it's completely insane the thing being that all forms of of advertising at you see on new site.

They're all awful and they're increasingly unprofitable so it's it's reaching a situation where readers hate them organisations aren't making as much out of them as they used to and it's just this is just another example of the ongoing search for something that will make publishers tons of money without repulsing customers would be good if this replace that it would be worse if it adds to that would be a nice experience for consumers the problem is that those clickbait ads that work for you as you take on that Dragons Den artikel means that ends up being a 50p click high value proposition.

And they look the other way and girl that's wack another 16th unit piece of the bottom of every page only true model shift is something regarding a doing around donations and subscriptions.

That's making a meaningful impact SE22 their bottom line the point in which the click-through rate of that give us £2 a month is over what those taboola ads do all that's meant to be his dad.

Isn't it? Let's hope so Torquay of quality journalism the observers Carole cadwalla has been awarded the Orwell prize for journalism for her work of course on Cambridge analytica and data harvesting Rebecca reminds us of her work us elections and basically the role of a plane into the whole trump Russia investigation and that Facebook data harvesting it to play Silly touched on all of these things and it ended with like really well.

Changing consequences Mark Zuckerberg full senate for Norfolk choice of the prizes such as I mean even try and I mean I've read it and even trying to summarise it then I was just saying buzz words but from Russia etc, because it's such a vast complicated story, but it was presented in a way that people did understand the impact of it and the significance the amount of people who have left Facebook or Who at the Bare minimum of far more aware of Facebook and data harvesting since that story break it has definitely had a tangible impact not just on there.

You know the world of people who already talked into the news and interesting this kind of thing but also the average person and she investigated it for a number of years despite indifference really from the public.

You know the wisdom would have been editorially yeah, the public know that Facebook have their data and they don't care so why you looking into it?

The mark of a great journalist who keeps keeps going at it and it had a massive impact to hear that organisation doesn't really just anymore and Rebecca carols source Christopher Wylie responded by tweeting.

This is why we need more women in journalism actually inadvertently betray something about him though.

Doesn't it? Only maybe this is one of the way she did manage to get his confidence.

Is is that he spoke to her because she was a woman.

I mean that's that's something that doesn't get talked about much.

You know that dynamic between men and women it's true and it is an area of you know the I did the kind of Turkey data inside of journalism is a side where women are underrepresented.

You know compared to say you're more human interest E-Type story so perhaps there was an element of a wolf in sheep's clothing going on there and guys who was involved in Erskine this all mio Cambridge analytica all the top guys have been seen to have been man.

Perhaps they were more willing to inadvertently open themselves up to a female journalist, but I think they think that was a bit of a stretch.

Where is just time for the feature.

That's not going to win any Orwell prize is anytime soon.

It is our Media quiz this week.

It is the missing words game now at Grove is a new publication.

It's definitely not a magazine Facebook on not a publisher for business leaders from Facebook it is printed on paper at and it is available in the first class lounges at Heathrow so I'm guessing other have you seen it? It'll be here and it's on Facebook as well.

Not really all that if you search for grow magazine on Facebook by the way you do get a US-based guide to cannabis horticulture anyway back to the quiz.

I'll give you a headline from grow magazine with the word missing you just have to tell me what that word is as he buzzing with you know when you know the answer to Rebecca you will say.

Fastest voice box first let's go, what is the missing word in these headlines recipe for the perfect what?

Matt Matt startup very close, it's disruptor Rascal barriga clarity passion and grit and also Facebook ads headline the what whisperer millennial.

Yes, that was a profile of H&M Oscar Olsson sharing his strategy for a new brand.

It's disruptor in chief is earlier.

That's now everything ok.

This is your chance to draw the middle east is having a what moments.

Moment it was an interview in grey magazine which is to magazine with tech startup founder Linda rottenberg on working with new tech companies in the Middle East that means with 1.3 winner is Rebecca congratulations your the disruptor hear well done.

That was a lot of fun.

I think we can all agree and therefore surely a great advert for the media quiz live are you coming and she can't come today? Got a 40 days for my wedding? I will be there a chance to meet him everybody Exmouth Market 19th of July let's see if we can make that happen get tickets at the media podcast Ofcom / live and Rebecca are the tickets for your wedding available there as well on eventbrite or and I'm going to have to say no actually I'll be great to reducing the costs.

I guess that's what I just want to get in touch with grow magazine.

Thanks to our guests quiz winner Rebecca gillie.

And Matt Deegan at episode is dedicated to JP waiting one of these subscribers who was just a small donation keeps This podcast going JP doesn't even work in the media, but spends more On podcast each month then on Netflix imagine JP you are a podcast history.

Thank you J pig.

You can get an episode of the media podcast dedicated to you or your mum already like a bee sting the media podcast Ofcom / donate and choosing a voluntary subscription that suits you can only man the producer Rebecca Drysdale Sherry the media podcast 8 PPM till next time potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the

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