Read this: Media Masters - Sir Harold Evans

Media matters with Paul Blanchard welcome to media Masters series of one-to-one interviews with people at the top of the Media campaign New York and Gerald editor of the Sunday Times reporter at 16 he completed national service in the RAF before graduating from Durham University he quickly Rose through the ranks at the Manchester Evening News and became editor of the Northern Echo A31 revered throughout Fleet Street his name is synonymous with the golden age of investigative journalism during his 14 year tenure at the Sunday Times you campaign 4 and 1 compensation for children affected by thalidomide he moved to the US in 1984.

Where was founding editor of Conde nast traveller now editor-at-large of writers.

He is also a best-selling author of a number of books on American history and journalism.

Sorry.

Thank you for joining me even though you're from Yorkshire yes, I know we've is the Wars of the Roses and differences.

Never get out of the studio Willingdon of course, but will they will will move swiftly on from that.

It is a pleasure to talk to you.

Sorry.

I've been looking forward to this for many years that when I started This podcast for the three years ago remember St tomorrow for the time.

We need some big names on unite Harold Evans so I'm very pleased it's taken me a few years to get you on your 90 years old now or are you still as passionate about journalism as you always have been and say more I see so much every day which requires the very best of journalism in public affairs and gets quite a lot of good generation but not enough because I am so passionate about journalism now when I Began as a reporter and I was 16.

I was finding out who died who's married.

Who's Rob the police station or whatever it wants and then of course as they came through different aspects of journalism.

Fully realised that the most important thing I could do I do the Germans could do it was asked questions and there's so many questions that come up in a more complex world relays really feel that now is a fantastic opportunity for every journalist to make things clear which are not clear and to expose wrongdoing in crime and lies because the air is very very polluted.

It's like being in in Pinocchio or something cos he's got a long noses so I'm just as precious as ever because every day when I read the paper or listen to the radio or TV or on the web.

I ask why are they asking a question? What is you asking for instance? You know you get a gun Massacre quite common in United States what's the questions? I have that nobody's answers.

The question is quite simple we go to the NRA and which is a lobby for guns and some defensible reasons but also for other indefensible kind of everybody has to have a gun Massacre of the church will let's take the chip make the church into a large repository of a cylinder head position is the solution to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun manufacturers assault weapons while resisting and a ban on assault weapons while resisting virus, but people don't they don't go to the gun manufacturers of people making the biggest profits who accepted as in the NRA so that's just one example of part of the controversy about guns in America is one party.

She's never ended with a question, so as a journalist as a reporter.

I would want to go and infect the made you but I've got other things to do so all the time and then it particularly this time of America when there is so many false statements being made you want to go and see where is the proof so the two concerns I have to reinforce today.

I Y what is y y y y y y y and then, what is the evidence so this Inquisitor aspect of the present investigation element is very important, but I don't want to put investigation on some particular place at the point about it.

Is it should be routine in journalism to as the wife and to try and stay truthful now.

Whenever you have the truth is very difficult because very often Complicated not for a million reasons.

Because the truth is very often complex take for instance if we have to explain global warming the physics of what's happening and there was a brilliant program by NASA the other week pointing out that one evidence of what our planet is going to look like in 5200 years time we should look at how the Planets differently if it involved we have a probe on Mars at the moment is the sign of water on Mars if there is could have been habitable at one stage.

Oh, well Earth this tiny blue globe and it was somewhere will it become another burnt-out planet with global warming and climate change so when we get some of those ridiculous completely stupid statements particularly in the Republican party in United States you just wondering.

The Odyssey this program and they think their sons and their attitudes and their Descendants are going to be confined to a planet that may not be as devastating as much today, but will laying the groundwork for that kind of thing I'd like to give an example if I might have Mr trump, who is the president of state of course he's indeed and therefore has access to all kinds of information that he wants so what is his view.

You would presume that somebody's put in charge not just in United States but is a leading voice on the planet.

What's his real.

How does he explain or does he not explain what is his attitude to the education by 97% of scientists the global warming sticking-place and we'll have catastrophic consequences and id like to read you if I buy something I brought with me across.

This is Donald Trump ask a question.

This is what you said about climate change and actually we've had times where the weather wasn't working out.

So they changed it to extreme Weather ever have all different names you know so that it fits the bill but would probably have and if you look at energy costs are all of the things with doing to solve a problem, but I don't think any major fashion exist.

I mean Obama taking some number one problem with the world today and I think it's very low on the list, so I'm not a Believer and I will unless somebody can prove something otherwise I believe there's whether I believe this change and I believe it goes up and it goes down again and it changes depending on years and centuries, but I'm not a Believer and we have most bigger problems crazy.

Yes, Mr trump.

We have beginning with your comprehension.

The difference between weather and atmospheric changes I should contact Alison as you've just read an extract from your latest book do I make myself clear does it not trouble you then.

Trump doesn't seem to be God matters of fact as actually merely opinion because as you said the consensus fast consensus on the part of the scientists and environmental Sciences is 97% sure that you remind me to climate change is real.

It's not a matter of opinion and yet.

He seems to shift the Debate that it is that his opinion counts just as much as all of the Earth of all of science as you put your finger on the something important Vicky verb in his description is I believe you can believe them moon is made of green cheese if you like the fact.

It's not even be a belief Republican Party oppose him and do a Republican Party is now in this same naive belief category FIA

So, let's say masturbation.

How do you believe in gravity having to is there such a thing as gravity you say to Mr trump.

Do you believe in gravity? Yeah, ok? No, let's just a belief.

Well.

If it's just you believe me or cavities 44 and test gravity now absolutely so when you make some of your ridiculous statements like she goes up and it goes down whatever you are stupid.

The underlying trend is going up and up an Apple iPhone app self belief is not a scientific fact any has no capacity the big president Mr Trump is extremely clever extremely Connie a brilliant Gemma so he has absolutely no comprehension of what a factors, but he also seems to have poison the well of journalism itself this whole cry of Fear

News is so that when CNN are you someone like yourself an eminent long something journalist attacked him his supporters a well.

That's the fake news media.

So did that he succeeded in closing the ears and therefore the mind's did to half of America his base that think that the media is there any me yeah? I said one of the terrible things.

He has done is to call journalist enemies of the people discuss the enemies of people same same phrase picked up from Joes Darling by the way and I saw recently a wonderful film called a private war which features Marie Colvin film did Simon porter last night's euro over because she went into dangerous places to report what was happening in humanitarian service people been murdered and crimes inside so she was dedicated to try and find out what was going on in Syria and she got kill jews.

Racism allegation deliberate Alessandra Jane we have text on the podcast recently added to this very clear that was murdered in she was no legs at least just like to show me it was murdered in Saudi Arabia by The Prince and having to say that again by The Prince and I play with you by the shadowy figures reimagined first his Productions leave that that it would have happened without his consent of course he ordered the killing and so we have these two instances of the murder of a journalist who had been critical admittedly of the prince wasn't probably get any kind of Revolution they are we having Marie Colvin every single day of the week.

All Around the World in a minor matter or major methods we have journalist who are not enemies of the people exposing dhruv rathee exposed.

The open epidemic exposing how they offered them started and what could be done about it, then they're not the only bit of people be any of the people is other people who are making a profit out of that kind of stuff degrees secondary Mr trump, who can't be bothered with the complexity of it and doesn't appreciate that without investigation ruposhi.

We've been a hell of a mess and does it frustrate you I mean in in 1st is an obvious question but does it frustrate you that these people seem to be in the ascendancy at the moment.

You know this has some strong evidence suggest that a lot of people voted brexit because they perceived the immigration problems be a lot worse than it was because it's been exaggerated by the Daily Mail in the Daily Express and someone and trump supporters long.

He when he won the election that brexit is a classic case because the nincompoop the Ratcliffe

That's Jason metaphor you the amount of lies pumped out during that was not sufficiently exposed by the Germans you will get 350 million for the National Health Service will get this will get there and then I threw out so they the problem then with the Polar Express in Britain meticulous, wish you get the sandpaper that the male and sore who will support brexit and they wouldn't expose the lies.

You can other people as we can use operations which will expose the lies and then there was David make with this fake news, so the whole debases been the generated in a way which didn't quite exist when I started in journalism at the age of 16 as a reporter totally be generated and the influences that we can trace, but this is a really serious issue.

Is now the Britain are all the all the all the labels, can you shout if you like at me out of note just consider what you've done and has the consequences on full with gross national products going for bikes nearly 3% No question about it.

Look what's happened £100 when this nonsense started about getting rid of the channels.

That was something and expressions some kind of understand about immigration will come to that nonetheless the pound was 17127 Britain has been devalued and it devaluations going to continue their immigration is a serious issue.

I don't pretend it.

Isn't the whole international seeing has not yet.

Come to grips with what could be done so take something like the caravan's coming from Lois Latin America into the border with me.

How much message Ahmed a big deal that coming in like Invaders well some of them are good people book their rapists and awful lot of the wall on the other hand seem incredibly inflammatory rhetoric and very scary not the women and children some of the young man through rocks and a text Dave indicates his attitude because so that was a very bad.

Seen all together so is a good reporter you have to take the whole picture into town, but it's no good getting back to the great Curse of American journalism, which I think was took too long in the schools on the one hand on the other end of the other and I read about this time and time again somewhere the truth doesn't lie necessarily in the middle.

The one MP3 got the autobahn built on the other hand he murdered all those people in Poland 11 Jesus Christ was a bit of the uses you do good things to the accident about saying that one person thinks it's raining in the other one that says they did it isn't raining at your job is Genesis look outside the bloody window and see what the truth is a genuine about the truth from these competing claims.

What is the evidence and how big is that you and how far do you push your criticism is coming back to trump identity the to regard everything that he tweets as a subject for Ladybird attack is ridiculous.

Who plays the media like a flute? He's an early one thing one minute the best wishes to investigate that he says different things the next day and the next day something for the rest of the day the genius of trump in that sense is that there are so many things that in any other presidents who would be a resigning matter and they don't even last the full new Cycle because he then does something else the next is brilliant friend of mine who claim to being the new said at the beginning of the presidency.

He said to various people will how would you go about this job and so they gave an answer is it wrong wrong wrong with in a reality show with change the Script every day, so that's what happened.

So they have the reference the Pied Piper of Hamelin is quite relevant sitting here and social media presence first first job of the media is reporting what is obviously.

The speeches in Staffordshire on the record then there's the discovery of things that people would rather prefer concealed there's explanation and then they successively at the exposition Susie who goes to the three stages sometimes you end up having to campaign and stay in system.

This is not true.

This is not true.

This is not true.

This is a lie and that's why it's going to be damaging to people let me just take it back if we made to the beginning of your career you mentioned earlier that you started as a journalist age 60.

Did you always want to be a journalist that im in curry if we money if we could spend side of a few mates going through you and mazing.

How old.

Are you when you know you want it that journalism was for you and dated precisely its when Dunkirk I was 11 12 and my father was driving steam engines although blackness overnight caring evolutions in Slough

Any got a break in each other's all too real and I love building sand walls against the Irish sea not against the Irish but it was against the distance for a group of men and workshops as I didn't want to go anywhere near my body keep playing and my dad's got talking to them and they were disheveled lying without any real clothing makes of clothing the survivors of Dunkirk and he talked to them and I found that the what they were telling him was somewhat darker pictures and given by the newspaper The Times newspaper the time trying to keep up Dublin Morales Churchill said was not lost by regulations to the evacuations.

It was brilliant.

So I realise they're watching my father and realising.

How many questions he does the dance of freely moving to different picture so I Began to think Sophie osity? Yes, how do we get a prezi on my study plan and the invisible environment reporter Lipman called it and the only way we can begin to get a piece of that environment which weighs Troosers by asking questions he says about what will the girls like but what was your equipment life where we hear what happened there? Why did you do this one episode? I was having if you didn't crazy, but they wanted to talk to somebody because sometimes.

They are to journalism persuade people to talk what they don't want to talk about these men did want to talk about so I just said already realise there was never going to be a mathematics or physics major although.

I did a good essay on call one.co.il.

No, I didn't pass 11 plus examination now because I was partly in MySQL evacuated from the bombing which was intense.

I don't think you need an excuse now, so how you know what you don't need to have an excuse.

Don't worry.

I think you've made up for that since the age of 15.

I did manage to get 5 school certificates which entitle me.

I didn't realise at the time to go to university way, Newham idea of going to university at 15, but my mother and father invested in me the equivalent of money saved up and save that because my Mother is open the grocery store and my dad was working all hours on the railway as a driver the money they saved him into a business college.

Love and courage in the middle of Manchester and typing so when I wrote in Yeovil letters at the age of 16 st.

Give me a job.

I could do a shorter than typing.

I gonna call comfortable Ashton-under-Lyne on Monday morning and I got there and I got a job as a reporter incredible, so that was a start and I was lucky because again love you because the grown man or away fighting the war there was one man who being invalid it out to Jameson and he took me the courts in tell me how to report the courts and assured him was terrific in the corner always insisted to come and suck of the body.

I didn't want to look at the body has do squeamish all together but I go to the police station and asked question this is what's the weather like this evening in at the deep end, so that was good and I got my first taste my really excitement was one of the people.

I went to be given the tight score with reporters at let's say that attacks with going to see Mrs sew and sew son has been killed hear something kept if you just tell them bring.

Picture back what you mean you want to knock on the door when there's one was in distress and asking for a picture of her.

Sorry I can't do that, but I didn't say I went to the street.

I got to the door and turned away at the End of the Street at all.

This is your big tits.

You've got a raccoon do about the officer went and knocked on the door.

I said she came from the Ashton-under-Lyne la devotee show me wanted a memory tell us what you know all of this is a picture of my life, but make sure you give it a good so then I realised that very very important thing in the Ashton-under-Lyne that report early reporting.

There's something which is very much missing him in many places today a community of feeling and we all felt we're all part of the same community.

I became welcome then and show that I did that there was a lucky break that was that was infront nearly 2 years and 9 months lucky break because in my bathroom because I had shorter than typing have made a couple to stripes because I could say I was sitting there, write reports on accident stories it give you will give it to me and say it's a dog's dinner.

See what you can prove to clean it up, so I cleaned the point of bad it is there was two men in my blood in my bedroom.

I would interested as I was in what was happening, but they were talking in your language.

I didn't understand they were talking about John Maynard Keynes and philosophers in the economy, because they started university with an I realised as I was only partly educated and I heard Jon beavan.

Who was the famous so.

Manchester guardian reporter give a talk to us with kids in year 70 term of the get to university and fortunately I couldn't Get Out My Head this school certificate.

No university will accept me without letting Creek M&S Examiner Grantchester, I could say the Grace 37 is this is the word for it, but I found one University which racecourse called social studies and thoughtful time it might be terrible rape.

You sending me into disputes of all time with Ashley beheaded Corsa politics in their neck to heal a cut on a Suzuki.

Got through the first year they promoting me the point of bodies that was by the way only possible because the booklet that Conservative Party but education agencies ex-servicemens like the GI Bill and United States should be in touch with me.

Occasion so I got a fantastic education at Durham University politics economics a level what you want to talk about places and they gave me a larger picture of how can we preserve the best what we have in the lines of Edmund Burke and how can we can't deal with the things that need reforming and so I left university in fuels with this wider perspective so yeah great passionate believer in education and then having served in the Royal Air Force where he started newspapers and magazines in real life my first attempt where we can sit the type ourselves by the way me and the fuel of the leads while I made a mistake because we put a picture up of aircraft on the front of the magazine and then when I went into.

The bedroom houses, what are you playing at bloody aircraft? We see those old a bloody fool if you don't want to see something new Lancaster bombers in stuff like that, so the next one.

I put a picture of a baby pretty and what am I called Diana Dors that was advisable advisable lens that filled out completely so I learn one leg Twist Again to raise.

What was in it and then close when I came out of the job at the Manchester Evening News learning to make condensed and simplify language, which was fantastic experience for me and is basically what I learn to bring me to write this books about the English language in sun and the experience was reading a paragraph in the Sunday Times of all papers which said that Vancouver was starting April

Can you detect cancer in women cervical cancer and I thought why don't we have a ball at the program like that in Britain sensible question so I was out by this time.

I've become editor of the Northern Echo A31 at this point was William child prodigy.

I was feeling young for a letter to ship of its it was it was a bit of times about why don't we have work the why is he very core reporting so I was able to get a young guy called Kenneth who played with when did you take it from Cambridge she was a trainee journalist.

I said why don't we will go to Vancouver and find out why they doing about 2 months later turns out.

He hadn't been to Vancouver

He's been at the road to Newcastle where there was a very brilliant Doctor Who been trying for years to get the British government to introduce a program to detect cervical cancer in the early stages when it can be kill them cure 2400 women with dying every year needlessly everyday because of cervical cancer with detectable and curable so when this information came and I went bananas a route to every MP and the famous become account is celebrated because I got them two questions minister environment by saying you won't see your constituents to ask the minister of health this question so it goes like this will the minister respond to the Northern Echo the suggestion.

They should be a campaign to detect cervical cancer in women.

The following week another one of the minister now introduce the coverage for cervical cancer and I ask again the following Nosa Nosa Nosa Nosa you know about never introduces and then one week that one of the MPs got up and see where the ministry now in Shrewsbury been going on with this had written to every employee at rykneld pamphlets.

You said yes, it was a new Ministry of health and that was the start of the cervical cancer campaign are very proud of the fact that they do we save 2400 women Atlanta Moreno the Sunday Times the pilot program.

That has been agreed was extended to become a national program puzzle I was able to write to a wider audience.

Let me ask you then about the Sunday Times you've got when we're going to be a career.

We got to that point when you join the Sunday Times I mean that.

It was an incredible number of years, so I just took us through some of the highlights.

I was very fortunate because the chairman and who created the Sunday Times who built it with circulation considerably as close to a million and we took it to a man and a half but nonetheless the man who created it was the youngest Brigadier British Army one of those curious coincidences.

He was at Dunkirk in the water with a picture of the Durham Light Infantry lost hundreds bit better and it was up to be shoulders in water while he's now is back in Britain not and it's not even diversity man brilliant like what I've done of the Northern Echo so we invited me to join the 70 times in the point is he already was because he had education values education enormously and so he appointed me bed when he moved on to be clear about the company.

I became a dishes something.

This is important as I have a lot to him and the newspaper and Industry in and journalism Britain has looked in general it before he did it was tentatively exciting I mean for a star excited hearing about it.

It was so amazing to me as the week.

I arrived there wasn't any insurance fraud called Michael doctor sivana or automobile insurance which is complete, and I am to know an MP been in Sri Lanka we came from and see this guy's a croaky should look into it so I mentioned it now that save this is important that that was a lot less piece of information held the put that drop of information in a test tube inhabited by Murray sale a brilliant Australian Bruce page and allowed it to fast are 304 people.

Of enormous and who left University Ashley very tidy and that we followed this round and we were able to expose it and then when I go further or I came back from holiday with Jeremy Isaacs Rachel became head of Channel 4 and it said it isn't interesting about Phil bit when I didn't know I said I understand his wife is writing A Memoir so I got both the office and I said to Bruce Springfield we going to look into Filbert so what are all I'm doing is connecting positive and negative and so it was fantastic very exciting but an earth-shattering Lee large story exposes, how many decades later and now we're still talking about it and what time?

Initiate me a photograph Bruce gaming with his photograph and it was Yeovil babe.

I will be in in the Spanish Civil War reporting but when he came back into general circulation.

He'd been all the kind of left.

He was now darling if the Anglo German Society and their Bruce said look here.

He is building a new identity what a brilliant remark of complete fantastic and so I said about going my own thoughts is going to ministers talking to him, but all the report has got the same thing hello.

This is a Sunday Times insight team would just like to talk to you about chair Mr Filby click click through to the former head of the Secret Service Menzies and it back to me and said what a copper bottom best of this will be what but they wouldn't say any.

Unusual about him then so damn I don't know what of the many investigations.

We did and the whole staff was educated and by the way, this is due to me, but it's very important to remark a we shared a common Purpose we argue Leyhill about what the feck Spencer where we should go next but we did say that at the ideal, but it was a public service end of the week.

No business asking these 30 questions unless we have some point of bears with the cervical cancer and then as when I was trying to expose the fact that we've had the wrong man in a murder case Timothy Evans and which we didn't we succeeded but that was a fantastic experience me, so when we got the little mind which is now in Craven last week.

I was in London

One of my friends Louise Anderson who had no legs in the arms, just died and M56 the letters came round to the club atlas staying in and we discussed as an you know what is amazing about these people we have one compensation for them after a tremendous battle that we had and we had to go to the European Court of Human Rights and soreness or had to respond to Prisoner all that kind of stuff which would exam arise if the film was made of it wouldn't be believable day with winning in European Court by 13 votes to 11 made the British government changes law of Britain laboured under very extreme restrictive conditions, but when I go to London today and it's been the same every since we won the compensation.

They was thalidomide as I've been leading the fight replay.

She's like Spain encourage.

It where there's still no compensation in Spain reactionary discord and so they've turned their energies into helping other thalidomide is all around the world and I find that fantastically inspiring.

When did you first hear the word for Lytham I'd in your tenure at the Sunday Times moment when you that would actually hit your eardrums good.

It was most been about 1969 71 had begun to get why they initially when I Began I was more concerned to get Express sympathy and raise compensation but the more I read about it.

I wanted to know what was this tenor gin.

What was this disease or what was it that do happen and by the way? It's still today is something hard to comprehend is like a snipers rifle if you do the Womp

On the 24th day of losing hearing if you did it on the 28th, but you lose a leg if you took it all the cities in the alarm and sort of depends when you took the pill is like a Martin Johnson the director of the Superman Trust right.

This is like a sniper rifle so hear what it was horrendous roulette.

It was this drug released without any testing on pregnant women never let me just say something about journalism here and this may sound as I blow my own trumpet, but it is the thing so when we got our group got together Phillip Knightley very very important report abuse patients answer answer if people I can name them all over have the other the point is this once we got into it and decided it was an outrage.

It's not just above the level of come.

Patient being offered and the fact that the government is in Mr Enoch Powell was St cervical cancer dimension was also refused to see the surgeon my children who refuse to take out the case if you sever public enquiry, so this is absolutely are responsible and they were just following the advice is that were getting from the Civil Service and where was that voice coming from the drug company unbelievable unbelievable credible is a better word.

Locate so you're with me.

It will be investigated this and we've now got now can show indisputable that the levels of compensation are cruel and bizarre.

I'm completely on Justified so we stepped off a chance against the conservative core which is it should not report anything.

1972 September 1972 revs big double page spread not a single newspaper not The Economist not the time not the Guardian not the Daily Mail not come back the Daily Mail special case did they reported and you know why they all swallow the idea? There's a pharmaceutical could not cross the placental barrier.

How is married to a barrage of teacher in his pocket and she said everything is of course you can cross the placental bed is it didn't like the foetus in there is protected by the percent of pharmaceutical gets rid of it because I'm not one of the brain newspapers all correspondence ever challenge that during the initial stage of the litter campaign which presumably was even then was deeply reckless.

Addition of the meantime, how do you spell job not to accept the the conventional Wisdom and to challenge those that are not sure why they the inhibition of batteries government contempt of court was very serious because you could be the paper could be fine and put out of existence if you divide the law of contempt of court and the law of contempt of court used to run from the moment the case with Sit down for trial and so the early victims cases with Sit down for trial early on and then has more people filed in seeking compensation the period of Silence enforced on the press and everybody else and the victim the parents were told if you don't accept the settlement will take it up everybody.

Whisky, it's like coming at you with the jagged whiskey bottle just Cheryl so looking back on it.

We were brave and resourceful and that is must be stressed and not just Harry isn't running out in the streets padding this science and so I was I hadn't had a team of people hear you but you were the editor and people were fantastic and dedicated and by the way it will hug you like hell with me if I said surely this means actually no, it doesn't get it and then let's listen to the reference desk all of this but that's Testament to your approachability salida mean.

Can you imagine anyone in Donald Trumps orbit questioning him along those lines? That's one of the reasons.

Why is in the trouble is he's in because he's all powerful and can't be questioned a really good leader like yourself allows his team to challenge him because that's what you want.

Then.

We can do that.

Facebook at Sibley down for question the Sunday Times for 14 year 14 wow during your tenure as editor Rupert Murdoch bought the paper.

Did you know if we were very successful paper the unions were always fighting in between each other and the press room where we printed all these vast numbers of big papers Law Pages

had people coming in at just at the weekend to do that.

There's no real world.

It is a paper and they took every opportunity.

They could to try and get more money for the shift and I also the between the craft Union in the Press room and the labouring side on skills the resist tension Sylvia Rovers watching the differentials in pay, so that was a source of aggravation and I'll never forget the moment did out that we want a great victory in the European Court of Human Rights neighborhoods to print more information regimented bigger increase in pay and then they went very slow so the run was trying to print 1600000 only running is about 800000.

So I asked him to come to my office I get the Union guys come up as I come up and I sent them and they said you realise that you are frustrating a bit young players, but as I said I always think you're right about this is about children is so I said I wanted to just finish the wrong and have your claim against management later cos I don't control your pay.

Well.

I control is that what I probably should the play the words and said they went there and they continue like this promise me then finish the wrong.

They didn't and the next day was on television under attack by the do you do you delete it and I said because you frustrated.

I really miss usual part and of course that was a terrible tragedy because the hello enmity warfare between the Princess and the management was complicated because we were working every day with the comps doing the Letting of the

Ring out the pages and we had a good day relationship that we had none with the middle of the person who invented neighbours all the Time Mickey Mouse and sort of drawers one thing I must mention is the Thompson family first for Roy Thomson the chance of rain with Dennis Hamilton that I should be the editor of The Sunday Times was a terrific man completely believed in the journey is being used to carry a car in his pocket saying I give my journeys complete freedom if you're complaining about something that was the lights on in the cinemas the same and his grandson as and then we'll newspaper on a really wonderful that you had limits you have to check the Queen herself order series of the bed judgements against you in the court should be out so he has very high standards, but he didn't interfere the day today week to eat months.

And his grandson as the chairman of rice is David Thompson is the same today reuters these records are highly principled news organisation protect anyway, so what we achieved the Sunday Times could not have been achieved without right answer and the Thompson family being it out of bed.

So when they got frustrated by the continual production disruptions by the you said we're not doing it anymore we going to put the paper up for sale, so they put up time newspapers the two papers together with within link the Sunday Times enzymes William rees-mogg is 4 x went to Canada and now she was going to run the time separately if he could exceed get the London management of time of his papers to give him the opportunity and I said it was Sunday Times group over the top executives on the 7th x finance director production director and we made of.

Need to buy the Sunday Times and we had James Callaghan the former prime minister with us.

We have all these highly skilled technical directors with us and we thought we was bound to win.

Why because the monopolies law so that nobody is should control more than a certain percentage of the British press Wainwright times from both times Daily Times an editor Sunday Times it gave him 6% of the British press.

He had to go before the monopolies commission to justify 6% along comes Rupert Murdoch of Monster control 37% of the British press amazing and you already very profitable newspaper with the song so we thought why you can't possibly succeed because you have to go before the monopolies commission and we can show the the Sunday Times is a stand-alone profitable operation and then.

The leadership will be adequate for managerial and dedicated journalistic Lee what nobody knew and took us took me 30 years to prove I was at Rivermead I had a secret meeting with Mrs Thatcher when it was on vinod that she was seeing through the proposition that meeting she denied he denied the both of them live as well because that burst into life and she lied because it politically embarrassing but she could not get in to see the fact that her protective ring him.

Keep two minutes of the meeting between message said she showed exactly husband so despite the evidence was produced the Levinson enquiring continue deny this meeting ever taken place.

Zoe not only did he cheat no cheat but I can't go round ends on a tremendous instrument of his latest accessories.

He's a very brilliant business operating a brilliant absolutely brilliant.

I would never thought of laying in cheating it wouldn't have occurred to me.

How do you want to descend into lying and cheating again even if you might make it a bit more money doing this question has if this is the inquisition now and I'm lying on your bed of nails ok? And you say to me if we tell you can get it from this bed of nails and you can continue to control the Sunday Times editorial, but you have to lie a little bit about you what you would do anything.

Who is Albert finishing the great film 120 was considering seducing young lady? Well? I might succumb.

I might succumb, so I said I'd like to think out of lay down my body rather than I certainly did try because in the end after a year of working with Mr Moroccan the first six months with terrific second things nice with horrific have interference of a grocers kind to deny that the recession was continuing when it clearly was the airline had been crossed.

You couldn't carry on because I'm only human thing is when this tomorrow they saying very capable fluid individual was on the standard Leveson Enquiry and the council said Mr Evans here describes how.

Interferes with the broke the five promises that you made five promises and then he went through survive promises not to give Direct instructions to the editor not to try and Murs the time in the Sunday Times into a news international company not to do this not to do that 5 baby essentials for a three headed paper.

He says that's not true.

He said what happened wasn't this Ravenswood come to me and he said I don't know what to say.

Could you tell me what to say it? I promise it won't go beyond these doors and I said where are you not to be mean to say what is 3 your the editor? You know that is not for me to say what is a believable? Is it really matter of some of your stuff because I'm a very agreeable feliway super disappointed with a safe get also that was very NMC since then.

Is the mean the British press was your and the hacking choirs in the Levinson expose itself Legacy of Morocco is going with mixed at the one hand a brilliant business guy on the other somebody would you based the British press and his influence on Fox News in United States is palpable and clear so what came immediately after their departure from the Sunday Times 270 times in the timescale came on the news international the editor of The Sunday Times now the auditions X I have to say that when I got reinforcement as the Liver bad controversies and they saw me it and I've been able to win out.

What was really happening behind the scenes with the German trial which is a separate story which is a corrupt trial in Germany the editor of The Times that job with the Sunday Times then he moved from the sunny time.

Most rocket League cars and did very well so that to this that particular says about tradition continued but of course I have the papers different from what it would have been if we've been run again after the Lord Mayors show the McGann it's not that it's all it's much more complicated than that.

Can I ski about life in America here with Tina I mean? What's it like to journalist living together? Do you do any teach others copy? How did how does it work? She is utterly brilliant.

I've never met a better journalist because she sees things that I didn't see that's one qualification second if you read her book the Vanity Fair Diaries which not only vastly entertaining is also reveals.

How could somebody come in at the age of 29 take over a magazine which is.

Obviously going to close any day now somebody from England does even know where the barriers and transform it Mrs Hughes the successful and then takes over the New Yorker and increases and saves it from declining circulation and then as other things like the Daily Beast where she shows you she is asking what the relationship is a car in the corner at least I give a good pretence of carrying in the car when it's so she's a hugely capable journalists have always seen where the real story is I wish I can imagine just imagine how she would have been if you've been on my Sunday Times with she would have been with Lewis Chester and all and brown McArthur and always other people and it is too many of them to name she would have been in she was in fact they did right.

Dorothy Smith a digital magazine so what she does like giving a mic so I give him I copy and chicken that's where they should be King and I was 7 paragraphs of this is where we should begin and she's absolutely welcome to if she shows me something if she's written first of all.

I'm completely amazed by the language in the the is there any of it but I can say looking at you can shorten this here and there because it is so I'm used to doing it and then she said she really has attracted so many good writer Simon Schama the real brother all these people eager to work with it because of his gifts she has so she knows of force of nature.

Exasperated yes because she's very often right then.

I'll Be There from wrong and occasionally I get a victory for 90 years old to Harry are you ever tempted to can I slow down and put your feet up a bit because I'm 43 and I'm already thinking that could do with a bit of a rest when I've got things like to do some things.

I'd like to do Ashley just for I'd like to read more biographies and I'll be able to read I wrote the book the American century and they made America the study of innovation, so a very deeply interested in that like to continue by reading other may have to indulge in extra expenses getting my copy from where I will be to wear.

It will be accepted what piece of advice.

Would you give to someone that wants to be the next to Harry Evans then you don't mind you work for decades and day.

I've been looking forward to been trying to get your the podcast 4 years is.

Is it is an honour that you've done it, but you know what advice? Would you give to to to aspiring journalists now that want to be the next to Harry Evans ever had fun questions do not read anything test yourself get the New York Times so that the same as a London or guardian and read them longest story there and tell me how many questions you have if you have fewer than 10 questions when you read the whole paper go into the church, but stay away from journalism and other words in Huyton curiosity.

I mean a point to a point of almost paranoia cultivate that increases that curiosity that with lesley's curious the internet to crochet Square to the house of be true do not simply accepting enjoy what you enjoy reading does your penis temporary with you.

Best way to challenge yourself so then ask yourself.

Why am I asking this question was my point so I think the first essential for the first and almost last essential.

Is that now of course when you've done that it does help to have a book like do I make myself clear because you're very I learn so much from really good bookshops and on Amazon American help me to understand how to write more clearly and so am so pleased about to put those things down.

So they can actually do that kind of thing and of course some of them will be something else.

They will be great writers in themselves, and they won't need anything from anybody.

Sorry.

It's been a truly bitten on her.

Thank you ever so much for your time now.

Not really escorts in my house.

Are you security venosus from the studio shortly? Thank you again a right angles podcast in association with big things Media