Read this: Fast and slow journalism

BBC sounds music radio podcast the media show from BBC Radio 4 today we're going to be going very slow and also very fast because I have with me in the studio Rob Orchard from the slow journalism company which produces a magazine delayed gratification and Tom Kerr the new editor of the Racing Post app presumably you don't like the onslaught of social media doesn't fit with your style Twitter is going crackers this afternoon about whether not Jeremy Corbyn and it says stupid woman or stupid people to the Prime Minister in case you missed that in your social media feed what do you turn to mediawise first thing in the morning? I will start with the times and the Guardian to to get both sides and then have a look but I die if it happens to be a pro at a time.

So you do we tell me on a daily basis.

He they pretend to anything about things in the 3 monthly, but you caught me out within the first 8 Seconds of the Shogun work.

This is inspector.

Thanks coming in rub thyme plenty of them horse racing is on over Christmas what days do you and your team actually have off well putting my son Frank we we we we probably 7AB Christmas day, but we still work Christmas day, so when you got the job 31 SSE tariff ok and ranch Begley is also here managing director of the digital Magazine app readly around will get into what ready does and shortly and why some say it's a model of how magazines will be consumed in the future and that's what I did to note that your company was founded in Sweden right, what is it that so many tech companies are from Sweden Spotify Acaster podcast platform think it's just a test base an incubator for for startups really I think you have a lot of encouragement from education from school and I think generally Swedish chilled.

I kind of need to think that they can do whatever they want to do and and and they can go out an experiment so likewise you know the Spotify the the disorder first Skype is also from Sweden and then you've got really as well, so really not really really I'm correcting you know my name is a nightmare to you to manually installed editor of racing protein gratulations now of course very few people are editors these days.

What's your full title racing director? What is that mean? I'm going to blow the second part of that further in the coming months and years with the company.

We own a couple of other companies now as well to a lots of B2B content and andante social media, so we've expanded our operations into new Markets and new technologies and new companies.

It's it's all quite exciting.

B2B meaning that used to have you work for this is rather than consumers and punters at compare for the racing Post Racing Post launched in 1986 as a weekday horse racing newspaper.

What is it today? Where is the 119 obviously we are all the class at the hit his many digital platforms with 1000 followers across social media with Tourette's usually successful mobile app.

We've got a new website and next year as I'm told that we're going to expecting to do just over 50% of our business online and digital which is I think pretty remarkable for a newspaper in 2019 so it depends on the day but we're talking on the biggest days a year €100,000 your big Saturday's round about half that I'm just in a quiet day.

Maybe around 30000k and it says favourite is a baby that stuck on the wall.

In the bookies, is it true that it's one of the most shoplifted papers if not the most shoplifted paper that is the legend apparently we don't we do it in fish fish fish is wrong metaphor this point is it something about a galloping into the future no no no straight from the horses mouth.

No, there's not had what why would it be my shopping list in how do you know about that? I think I think it's because of people in the bookies potentially are not rigorously policing their copies of racing post but also because it's packed full of absolute risk information for Pontins and Rohan Leeds and therefore people Nazi going to do what was your pitch for the job and now you know my officiation for what they do is journalist, but also you know talking about the opportunities.

We have to reach new audiences in a wee-wee predicate what we do and providing really authority of info.

Send information to people but you know we also want to take what we do to new audiences and get more people into racing as one of us for but there's a limit to how many New Orleans you can reach is now if your fundamentally about horse racing and it doesn't being a specialism is it just in Chiswick nothing wrong about a bit is it just intrinsic to specialism that it puts a limit on your capacity to grow horse racing is my wish.

It would be is never going to be bigger than football but because we're specialist publication it also allows us to you're really connect with our readers in and tap into their passions and provide you know really enhances the enjoyment of the sport is always there be a limit on.

How many people we can reach but within that within that group.

We want to be one of his many people as possible questions for a bringing our other guests be profitable.

Yes, we are and what's a business who has it working tools how much you get from subscription is Neptune from advertising use a digital should next year be over half the Reverend Arthur how to work a terms of how the

About the the palestrina reader revenue feel like an advertising revenues changing what you want me to post here being slowly introduced to the therefore the court announcer was but I don't know you got the just trust me.

I do know I think you're going to cop it mate.

I do know that was ample yet.

We're getting 8% of our revenues from readers rather than advertisers like in our mission is to look after our customers.

You know about them apuntes.

We want to be there voice we want to giving the best information available and you know much but the average reader age are much better.

Do they are male female age demographic that sort of thing I don't know the exact figures but naturally I newspaper audience tends to be older than our digital audience.

I think it has the highest female attendance of any sport in Britain you know I don't know what that works with our products as well, but you're not as a sport.

It's remarkably equal to sexist inches you measure because Britain's gambling industry is steak.

In a bit of a beating this year from the policy makers have been covering it a lot for the BBC news and the maximum bid on fixed odds betting terminals reduced and all this is going to be reduced.

There's a place for a whistle to whistle ban.

I've been agreed by some companies are no ads during live football games in effect if it isn't that bad bad bad for your don't think so I mean I don't think there's this other gambling.

It's taking its apparent pasting in the first.

Is it stopping fixed odds betting terminals is high Stakes high-speed gambling the last 10 of the antithesis of what we represent in the Racing Post we're trying to give people information to make informed decisions about letting you know there's only so many horse races in a day.

You can go in and betting horse race every 5 seconds like you could with fixed odds betting terminals.

So you know our readers enjoy what they do and we want to give them the tools so that they can have today.

Make the most informed choice as possible and you know we think racing Post customers, are we helping out with them when money off that may as well leave money and you're interested, but your relax merging gambling if it comes to obviously in a responsible way because I logged onto your website a short while ago massive logos for online bookmakers reword open account an excellent at these companies big notebook bookmakers are generally speaking feeling the heat of the moment.

How much do they pay you for the privilege of that colour exposure cause equali? We have commercial relationships with lots of bookmakers, but that doesn't stop us from telling them some pretty harsh truths.

I mean I don't do it earlier this year in which we basically track them from The Genesis and the growth of them and how did came to dominate the High Street betting model and talk about that.

You know how they created problems in society create forms in communities and families, how did Beano

Pursuit of care for customers when bookmakers with chasing that these huge profits that were possible there and clearly but make it have gone gone and they've lost sight of the fact that they have a social licence to operate you know and we regard ourselves as a critical friend to bookmakers.

You know we need to tell them you know you need to operate within society if if you were doing something which is going to find and yellow small but but but important good people at developing problems.

Is it and you need to do about it yet waiting to see that your company Reedley and offers a bundle of subscriptions to various publications.

Would you ever had racing Post of the mix of course he later and we be able to tell you time exactly he's reading your aura your title as well.

So you're right now.

Show me check on it and we don't even want to be on.

We would do daily newspapers it we do them in Sweden definitely so yeah absolutely and we be able to tell you who your your not tomorrow.

Would you like to be a really I don't think I would like to be on really no no no disrespect the Ridley order right, but I don't work for a magazine at all which is all about having that can affect Close Direct nation ship with a customer where you say you give some money.

Will do you some journalism and I wouldn't want to be part of a kind of a gigantic Group people who had access to interesting and I want to come back to the reading because it is going to be blood taking at subscriptions, but just on this point about the business model Tom has add you don't take out.

What do you make of what word is it a principal things that commercial thing? What do you make a Thomas dependents to some extent on at well from my point of view the philosophy of not taking out um trying very nicely with the practicalities of at the beginning of magazine.

No be wanting to put out with us competitively small print.

Supposed to be shouting if things change United getting started your a Delica operation started effectively as a sort of an experimental magazine.

I've sorted so we launched in January 2011 with the idea of seeing if you was possible to fund through readers alone some really good long-form journalism and an auntie kind of shift away from this model everyone was promising which is digital first fund you know find it through invasive advertising online and actually shifted.

No just like something nice that you holding your hand that you pay a bit more full than it actually cost to make a smile is have come across around his face.

Which is he goes round your company reader takes about the different approach to both tormentor Rob in that really offers access to several thousand magazines monthly fee if you want to become a lever everything is the something of something.

You know you get people in UK with the Netflix of Sport whatever and you wanna be the Spotify of magazines in effect the national living downtown you embrace your subscriber funded rather than ad funded Isis lots of publication is talking about the business, Oprah

Where startup so no ok, so we've just done our third round of funding third round and funding so another one that I can't pronounce the name is the capital here in the in the UK so 13 million time round and it's been spent on global expansion and on marketing so focusing on the territory several ready investors want to see return by Halloween kind of looking outside magazine subscription sew-on really you can actually have access to 3500 90000 issues, so you have all the back of shoes and all the current issues as well and the reason I was smiling at robs, We have long-form curated content on there as well see the intelligent readers we call it and obviously you have the women's interest titles on the men's interest titles as well, so you.

I'm going and you can snack on content you can go and read hello but then you can go and read out a longform article in Time Magazine office company agrees to give you what is in effect and massively discounted subscription me, what's in it for them.

Well, the business model 70 30 so 70% of 799 which is what you would pay for as a subscriber will go to the publisher and that's based on 12 times for the longer.

You read the magazine for whichever publisher the more of that money goes into their coffers.

We will take 30% and we put all that money into a marketing budget and then we promote their titles so our route to market is very different from the publishers, so we will look at big blue chip companies where they have access to huge pools of data.

So big telcos like Vodafone exactly matches the deal that we've done here in the UK and then we promoted their customer base so will do like her.

I don't know 14 days 3 or 1 months 3 and then they start subscribing and paying by the mobile phone what I did, so we'll book titles.

BBC Good Food Lonely Planet Focus pull out early this month they have their own strategic objectives, so we don't you know hold any publishers down to long-term binding agreements.

We have her a very straightforward standard distribution agreement and it's down to them.

You know as to whether they want to come on and it's down to them also you know to be feel free free feel free to move as well the big thing for as there is the we leave the door open for them when they're ready.

You know they come back so we we we just point of customers, so if you've been reading BBC good food for instance.

We will point them to a like-minded title.

So that im only will go you mentioned it to Tom.

You know you know if however I suppose was on on your platform.

You know lot about that weed is Netflix on Spotify when you log in to BBC iPlayer going to do same will send you some notifications, how much data do you keep the spirit leave the word about day today? Did you keep that customers and what do you use it to we would use it for it's actually have access to something called really Analytics which is a dashboard reporting from there there.

Be able to see when people are reading magazine the type of articles are reading when they drop when they drop out of the magazine the weather there male female how long left been reading for so we produce conceptual analysis where we can toggle the cover lines on the magazine and show the publisher exactly you know what the most read articles and you'll be surprised at the recently.

We had on cosmopolitan the first plus size model and there was a lot of control even in this day and age there was a lot of controversy around that issue, and when we went and looked at the data.

We found that 33% of the file the males reading that particular article and they were doing exactly what they were doing Smith so you know when you're going in and flicking through magazine while you're waiting for the train.

We can see people opening the cover trailing all the way through reading that article dropping back out again and then going back into read.

I think the next read article was the worst dates ever heard of 21st century.

Audience analysis I'm looking at rubble chute from the slow journalism companies just think I don't want any of this stuff.

You don't know what your customers are up to Rob I know you're not interested.

Why is it that is really important commercial point? Why is it that sort of Extraordinary depth of knowledge about what your audience is up to you.

Why is not useful to think I think there's I think there's three types of magazine very broadly.

Shall I think there's magazines that are developed with a very particular demographic in mind so it might be you know don't people between 25 and 42 having into racing on a what did we are going to feel this makes them something and then I think of magazines for which kind of effectively created for marketing directors.

Ok, so we're gonna we're gonna get this group of people because people want to get in front of them right.

So we're gonna we're gonna tell you have make sure this stuff for everybody that sort of stuff is super super super super that useful for that, but I think this this was ever again, but I think the best mazes the magazines.

I've got the most My Life magazines where the Editors quite bloody minded.

He just make magazine that they want to read and hope there's some sort of.

Yeah, I'm some sort of leadership qualities around it now.

That's not necessarily what I would indoors as a business strategy and you know it's and it is one that you know has seen as your first but it will be launched on the violin editors no best you're so you're So 20th Century will be so yeah yeah yeah, yeah, it's a philosophy as possible and all the money is going to going back into their the magazine printing Peckham better jainism to give me today delay gratification stations in magazine, which once every three months and looks back of the big events of the Quarter and asked question of what happens next Joe instead of trying to cover stuff on it's happening in real time trying to give kind of knee-jerk immediate reaction you go back to big stories after the dust settles and I'm trying to see what kind of the measurement religion in Germany 2011 and we had a pretty tired few First Years

Interestingly we were saved by Radio 4 in for ready for listeners.

Cos we launched in January 2011 and in February 2007.

He was very clear that the business was was about to die and we talked about three subscription the last week of something and then my co-editor Marcus when on the Today programme and it was therefore it was I'm bored and slot the last five minutes of the show and I was listening to on internet radio watching subscriptions feed and in those five Minutes Peace OL10 subscriptions and that they were so for 100 and that money can they carried us through to the next one to Radio 4 save delay crossword detect them on here right now before you do that for the Racing Post this idea that we hear from Rob about the things slowly out in quarterly chunks, isn't it? True that if the Relentless stream of social media at you know what happened today for instance is too much for some people a lot of people do like the news in Cycles that a daily or weekly Arriva monthly you think since about events in Corsley Cycles what do you what do you say to robs pitch that every three months a good time to dip into things?

Before and and I said that you know we call Jenny was in the first draught of history and I think that's going to the second draught of history as well the third fourth and fifth major absolutely you know it's providing a bit of insight using using hindsight to look at the bigger picture and I think you would do want that really what people were describe value to these days and journalism is sort of specialism expertise inside the so much breaking news out there, but you know you can go on the BBC news at me on the Guardian app.

You can get all the free breaking news you want so what people willing I think to pay for it is John Willmott office.

I'm more than that joke wasn't that has special perspectives that you know take some more insightful.

Look at what's been happening.

Is that the only living through the phonetic time and used to the people isn't this radio station or hearing it on there on the BBC Sounds app will know that we brexit this feels like there's North lot going on anyone who likes on to Twitter as a frequent have the misfortune.

So you can feel like they've walked into a zoo without zookeepers and has become too fast.

No, I don't think it has been a mean.

Let's face it brexit is like a blanket over the nation at the moment.

Isn't it really so I think the from my perspective and release perspective people want content on the go, they want to be able to snack and they want to win what we call leanback time be able to come to digest it a little bit more.

So I'm really what we do.

Oh, I'm really want her customers.

Do is that they'll stream through a magazine in the morning and then they'll read snippets of information throughout the day and then in the evening when they're sitting there with a nice cup of tea or a nice glass of wine, then.

They're watching TV or second screening.

They will take time to read the article and I heat mate heatmaps actually indicate that you're so what they're up to that you have you ever broken a story in delay gratification.

Yeah, I think so couple of issues ago.

I'm back at the pyeongchang Olympics the Winter Olympics and that had kind of mass mass cabbage and no one of the big storage was this diplomatic tassel.

It was going on between North Korea and the states in the in the Canada lead up but also this what thawing of relations between the South and the North and and this was brought together with his unified women's ice hockey team and there was a big deal about that.

It was a lot of kind of coverage and bad at the time.

We went back a few months afterwards and spoke to one of the place in that team Who at the time was very much and not you're not very much under pressure of the kind of the party line and so everything is fantastic.

Can you go back a few months later? I actually talk to somebody after that is settled when they're not being bombarded with media requests and you actually find out that it was a pretty unusual and strange experience that she went through do you think about when Janice in the age of social media are breaking stories that about become public anyway to see if I do if I break a story about some appointment or someone losing their job or someone leaving a job and I do it 10 minutes before the rest of.

Well those about accepting each of the internet.

Do you think of that is kind of need an exceptional Genesis no great value to it.

I don't talk and we never picks the magazine as you know I direct alternative to regular.

How could you possibly we can wait 3 months to find out what happened is wake up and I was like Nigel Farage Prime Minister happened to know so you can't wait you you have that you have to have it as I suppose an antidote and a can of an extra bit on the side, but also has to be said that we couldn't do what we do without people going to going out breaking news and the faster with her with a kind of the seagulls follow the Trawler basically I bet that level for you to make a pitch to Rob for why he should it despite his unwillingness to delay gratification into your bundle.

I think I did one of the key points that it will kind of be very reflective on your magazine.

Is that a lot of people go in a read back issues on readly so if there is a news item that they want to get information on then.

They will go into the search.

Pending whatever it is I want to find out about could be Donald Trump could be Kim Kardashian it could be something something very intelligent as opposed to those two.

Going on.

Are you coming on time? I'm not ok? That's busy business, Littlefield and I'm not to get my car racing post and really cos this is serious you do with a business live on their filming.

I mean I'm not giving no choice you have no skin is going to be on Reading or not.

I think you know to be honest.

It's probably not the newspaper platform.

Is it it it is for magazines this for people who are who are looking for something a little bit more brutal Caesar pregnant again talking so fast is like the fact that slow jams get me to be finished on time.

That's it for today.

My deep Sikes around Begley from Reedley Road butchers of delayed gratification and tonka editor of the Racing Post will be back on Boxing Day with a special program.

About the nations love of the Radio breakfast show don't forget to download the BBC Sounds app which is where you find the media Show podcast but for now goodbye.