Read this: BONUS News Xchange 2018 debate

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts from BBC Radio 4 thank you for subscribing to the media Show podcast this is a bonus edition of The Show because this week.

I was up in Edinburgh where I was at the news exchange conference and asked to host a question time style panel with five very distinguished guests it was what it was lively this morning Greg weitzman, the vice president of CNN international Facebook head of news partnerships for Europe and the Middle East Renee Kaplan the head of audience engagement at the Financial Times Michaela kufner the cheaper little editor of Deutsche welle and finally last not least David Rhodes the president of CBS news, please welcome our panel true to question time.

Principles rest assured our panel has no idea of the questions.

Let's take our first question, please.

This is from John Williams managing director of RTE News

why do you take news organisations on both sides of the Atlantic so long to recognise the plight of women in their newsrooms sexual harassment in the United States gender pay in the United Kingdom mechanical have been created with indictable.

I can tell you that much there's been recognition that you need a way to anonymously find your way to actually complaining about sexual harassment, but there is no excuse frankly that organisations have taken so long that would be my answer questions.

Why do it take organisation so long because it's very subtle.

I think that women are reluctant to see the position for women is.

It took you all men.

I mean men are also sex with your ass, but most of time in swimming if you're the victim you are the problem that you will be a very quickly is seen as potentially being a problem that few people have experience of actually touching upon that I can't speak from a personal experience but I can sy21 occasion of a major discussing round in Germany where actually is state prosecutor was asked whether he would recommend for his daughter to go to the police if she was raped and he said he wouldn't that the couple of new couple of years ago and that is simply because the mechanism is not there to protect victims and that is a risk that women still take so now mechanisms.

I'm pleased I think it's a very important debate that is being hard and I think it's very important that new mechanisms are there but they still need to prove that they actually work.

CBS news, when did you first suspect that Charlie Rose was a sex pest we have had obviously epic change.org organisation as a direct result of the type of thing that you're talking about an animal you're asking about and I think the most important thing in bringing about those changes the reasons why we've taken these Direct actions reason why for all we know there could be more to come is that it really is a question about who's in the room where these decisions are made and what are the expectations of various constituencies, but most importantly our own workforce about that decision making process.

You know we have had a major expansion in inclusion in those rooms in terms of who is making the decisions who is for instance on.

I've seen your leadership team which now as opposed to when I came into the organisation in 2011 is at least half that seen your team at least have female 6040 female in senior roles a level down about 33% 30% ethnic and racial diversity in the senior most team which would like to get more toward 40% but when you change the makeup of the group making the decision.

Will you get a different outcome an app should flow through to the editorial mission to to some of what Tony Hall address to the end of his remarks you get a different decision.

There is a generational thing happening in America news rooms including in around and it goes goes to this point.

I think the expectation of people who've been in this industry for a long time when there's decision-making processes.

Were different than they are today is different in the expectation of people earlier in their career who I think understand the rapid decision-making the sticking-place just in 2018 also and this is I don't think you are uniquely American problem, but it does go to a uniquely American issue, is that for us? This is not just about gender may have started and been most noticeable in the past year on gender and headline cases of misconduct, but we have we certainly have a racial and ethnic inclusion if you in the United States which we're trying to get after a we we might come on to that given the question the question was about and it was that sexual harassment.

Let me give me another go when did you first suspect the Charlie Rose was a sex pest you now.

I mean look I just before we can all these allegations came out.

I'm in there too complicated complicated turn your tattoo over doesn't women of accused of harassment.

Yeah and others love those does a cancer hard to read that stuff can't happen over many years as senior level without a lot of other senior people thinking they might be something really cricket going on yeah.

It's it's fair for people to ask a question.

I came with your answer.

I like him to the company in 2011 and I've been in these responsibilities really since the beginning of 2015 that actually makes me fairly new by CBS standards, you know after the fact of some of these reports of all.

It's always you always look back on these events.

And people and Wonder of You what you missed if you missed the clues, I didn't experience these behaviours.

It's obvious to me from these reported some people did there is a board level enquiry.

That's still ongoing about all those events.

That's not just above me at the corporate management level but above them at the corporate director level and I am interested to see I think all of our news professionals are interested to see what they come back when I kept them for the Financial Times I should full disclosure say that I was a producer for Charlie Rose at the Charlie Rose show and to answer the question specific about white took so long and he does one from my perspective a clear answer about that is that most of senior management most senior editorial management most of corporate management tended to be men.

And that the many behaviours of Charlie Rose our behaviour is that for the most part were written off as it's just Charlie being Charlie and I think there's a lot of tacit understanding that this was how we did business and it is directly related to the proportion of men and women in senior management as to what is perceived as being the way to do business in the way to manage and actually what is perceived as being completely implicit bias and oftentimes into some extent were more openly calling harassment, but which 4% of the first 50 years of the history of these networks was the way business is done 07 before you joined Charlie Rose has the reputation like all async well-known broadcast starts to some extent and wrapped up in many ways you have.

Look for do you work for the right cosmetics and deal with white in the American university called the talent right and the talent comes with a lot of accepting behaviours that tend to be eccentric that come with a lot of worms that come with all power and I think all those things combined to create personalities that tend to get away and I think the real challenge was that we let them get away great, but I have to agree with what I'm with David what relay point out that mean broadcast networks have a culture culture the occasion that takes time and behaviours take time.

I think to be recognised and now we've moved into a real rear these things actually matter and people speaking about them and times up people going to be held accountable for these behaviours.

We might not have been in that culture.

We had you know when they're gonna past 20 years 30 years.

Do you know the median pay gap between men and women at CNN Media pay gap we looked at it closely in the UK and the son of a 20.

Gap is Ted Turner 23.5% and over the UK average the UK average 4G and pay gap which is about 19% So why CNN got worse pay gap between men and women is historical as well to my point early around the changing culture, but it's something working every day to rectify and I think in terms of gender presents.

I think we're quite well balanced and and it's on our minds every single day, but it's something that we could be going to work towards fixing in the ameliorating contribute to this by just please raise your hand and I'll try and make a note of it in that come to you and Nick rent from Facebook

I can't speak on behalf of news organisations, but certainly what we are identifying and my team on the news partnerships side works with as many news organisations and and journalism goes into as many nutrients as we can I'm certainly identifying a Trentham or women in in decision-making and responsible positions.

I've had the privilege of going to a panel 2 days ago in London looking at Instagram content and all four panelists will women from containers from BuzzFeed from The Economist and from Freda Italian publication and it was really inspiring when I do industry events if it's a man or we we won't sit on those so I I think that im identifying from my position on the outside Looking In changes and certainly awareness about this issue within the industry.

Ok.

Just go back to John Williams

OL12 contributors if so, please raise Your Hands John can ask you whether that you feel that you've got it a satisfactory answer.

I do think the rectifying historic problems is what is one of the biggest leadership challenges of our time and all of is in in organisations inherit situations that we want to changed and I think transparency is good and clearly David is working hard and and and changing the makeup of the decision-makers.

Is is Kita that so yeah, I don't think it's a it's a problem that this unique 2 to 2000 on the panel looking all of us running organisations face similar challenges perhaps not to the to the extent of Some Mothers by John thank you very much B12 a second question this is from Nicholas bell Nicholas Bell

He gets a little bit about who you are before your question that we great Nephilim a shouldn't from Strathclyde my question is do the panel believe that we have a journalistic responsibility to platform white supremacist or should we make efforts to deny of invisibility wonder who you're talking about the Great vitamin look I promise.

I'll sort of product promises CNN is to tell all sides of a baby story that we cover I think that's incredibly important.

It's why people turn to us to get the facts and then be in a position to make a judge with themselves.

I think we don't want to be a host for hate speech without a doubt that's not something were going to go with whether that's our own internal sort of at wave operating or how we operate as a regulated so the broadcaster.

So why will host opinions and

Points we're not going to be a platform for hate speech 7 already in the audience thinks it's Steve Bannon should not be here today.

Nobody on the panel, nobody would never going to panel raise their hand.

I wanna shamelessly pick on people I'm gonna pick on this lady and the third road to get this lady in the third row with a glass of a head, please forgive me.

Why do you think Steve Bannon should not be here today?

Renault x posted in media summit in New York several months ago and indeed even in words I guess there and leave at times while adding multiple panellist threatened to pull out and it went well with the idea of hosting Steven and heading for the clear reason that one of the primary duties of journalism is indeed to call despotism ideology or false beliefs and anything else that actually can undermine Democracy in the good Society is our job to cover into question especially when those people are in power.

We have elected all across Europe and the US and Asia leaders that increase me are populous The Magical despotic and I'm really Frimley believe it is the duty of journalism to acid very tough questions to undermine the rhetoric or at least Analyser decorticate all the things are going into making.

Amazing powerful when it actually is potentially undermining democracy and undermining truth and if we're not doing that at least for the people who have influenced and who have a microphone.

There's no counterpoint were giving up this year for the questionnaire Nicholas bell.

What do you think? What's your own answer to your question?

Well, my go-to example when I'm talking about this issue is Alex Jones being kicked off of Twitter after he lost the audience has reached just plummeted.

We managed to get rid of influence.

We had over so many people are to a large extent just by that one platform it by allowing these people to have that years of a huge international audience whenever they want to or just helping them spread their ideas were not really challenging them when we get them over just message of being able to speak to you.

Can't you can have an argument whether van and still part of the test of relevance to to still take a stage and but we actually talk.

I don't know where the other two reactions that I sent you got some reactions online beforehand calling for me to boycott this conference because Steve Bannon was appearing and my answer was that it is not my role as a dentist to duck away from voices of populism also extreme right voice.

Because they are out there and they are relevant and but I'll give you one example.

They actually is there in an MP of Angela Merkel CDU party in Germany who said he would like to opposer.

I mean but nobody here from the east end.

He said he wants to pose to Germantown stand at that time for a system change that the system has failed.

This is all sounding a bit kind of you know radical for her own party now this was actually picked up by a news photo, but it doesn't it it doesn't get broad coverage because it is a soul voice that doesn't represent and any kind of Bass by covering that you uplift somebody into a platform and in a way you become a movement and I think there seems to be a very fast reflex of going from reporting into campaigning mode you know reporting Steve and it's here but somebody tries to campaign or tries to tell me that I am now part of some kind of campaign because I'm willing to challenge a voice that frankly I don't.

That is exactly as you say to nicholas' point that by taking Alex Jones off Twitter he quickly became less relevant and less influential.

It's not my judgement mate.

I am bound by the fundamental principles of law and democracy and as long as a voice or a party I mean that there was a long debate about when the alternative for Germany passes that test and in addition to that part of the test of relevance in the public sphere.

It is my duty to report on them and to challenge them if they violate any of those values nothing more and nothing less.

Could I don't make policy.

I think it depends on whether a speaker is going to be scrutinized and and and how to account and I'm sure he will be or not.

Is anyone here have you got a panel? That's in units and is anyone here prepared to change their minds anyone gone from thinking.

You should have been given a platform to hearing these arguments and think that maybe you should.

No crap panelbase, it's what you said to his appearance years earlier success because we've already spent half of our time talking about it.

So he got what he wanted the question is whether he should be given a platform.

Do you think it's right that he's here well where this place had mostly in our geography is in debates about whether it is much as this debate about white supremacists other hate speech.

You know we get this in terms of mass shootings.

There is a considerable amount of argument that we should not be depicting certain images of the perpetrators of the alleged perpetrators that this is part of what they want from these events that it provokes more events.

But I think journalistic Lee speaking there's a very strenuous argument the other side and I guess this is by way of answering that he should be here and that is that it does no good to silicone seal what happened.

If someone walks into a synagogue in Pittsburgh and blows away the worshipers or in a bar in California people are application is to tell people what happened and I'm not sure that if you start deciding that you can it tell people what happened or what's being said except in certain circumstances that are very slippery slope ok, Steve Bannon this is obviously criminal he is a former chief justice to the president of the United States of America Renee he says that the media has been captured by a Davos attending globalist elite you completely lost touch the lives of older voters.

I think but I actually want to make one word point about about about reference to this question is there is a difference between Twitter and journalism writing and it's a phenomenon point difference in that when you put someone like like Steve Bannon are you be does represent views that are reprehensible to lot of people in end and arguably had a negative influence on the world end and arguably it.

Is is it is an extremist point of view that we don't want to clarify when he's being ask tough questions that are getting at the heart of what his claims are by someone who is indeed in the role and the job of doing that is entirely different matter than having free-range on Twitter so that's a really important things go to a third question this is from Matalan goopy Matalan group.

I hope I pronounce that right is my fiance a detention describe the journalist of 20252 of the Jim Acosta incident.

2 in light of the team across the incident, what is the generation of 20 20 25 and how is The Newsroom like to it will look like in 2025 quattro I don't think the fundamental principles in 2025 will change at all.

I think what we're saying.

Oh well.

I'm certainly thinking in what what I'm hearing on the panel is accurate you know it's our mission to help people on power to account and that has to be a conceded mission of Wight CNN doesn't indeed but all journalists do so I don't see a lot of change.

I think that in 2025.

I hope we can much better much more skilled at identifying reality truth vs.

Non truth through some of the things we saw Tony Hall present today.

There's a really important initiative so maybe through what we do is an industry.

We can find a way to better identify.

You know reality in our coverage to make sure that it's understood by our audiences, but at the end of the day.

I really don't think there's much change in terms of the core principles and I don't I hope there isn't anything.

Hope we don't find ourselves needing to acquiesce to a new set of power structure a new type of Engagement that structure has with with journalism immediate David roach traumatic changes in this business in really two aspects and the first is the one that the discussion is about which is that the basic role here's making decisions about information but in large part of our our our audience wants our our potential audience people in the United States consuming news and information are is opinion and I think mass broadcasters like us public service broadcasters like BBC in any of those represented here are in a difficult place because the basic mission of these organizations is to not do that do not just reflexively rainforest opinions because that would be helpful to the audience figures and then you later on.

Top of that really significant technological transition which all of these organizations have to manage which actually make it easier and easier to program in an opinionated Direction when people searched for our programming previously by watching entertainment or Sports programs that lead into it in a linear fashion now they find it through a tile on digital home screen for voice search and those search aspects to determine the outcomes of what people watch unfortunately so many people want to be reinforced in their views first and maybe have a like a side order of news and information and that's a challenge.

Do they have you got a point to make on this?

Hi, I am only with you.

I am the head of a bit of your life my question is the following should the White House press corps biker president Trumps press conferences after a dreamer coasters separate issue with rubble or is that a bad idea should the White House press corps Boycott Trumps press conferences after a courses accreditation withdrawal who think for your hands up with the answers.

Yes?

I'm going to pick on several of you with the micro nearest to ladies put your hands up.

Just said I think the Lady With The Glasses keep you put your hands up again.

Don't be shy.

Keep your hands up when they were going to go to the lady 2 Days in the front near yet.

I said why should they keep your hands up, please hands up at the back.

Shy people yes it if you could you say wishing you from as well and I would say yes, cos I think it's only need to Stand Together in the life of these kind of threats to our journalism and if you don't stand together, then what's the point lady here in the third row back in the second in.

Hello, can you get the microphone to the telly with a pink shirt as well? He's a few places in yet.

Call Gary Higham editor-in-chief at that I see Portugal I totally agree.

It's stand up with your own with your colleagues.

You should they should have left immediately that's the only way to show we are at the other side of the wrong hands and thinks it must be lot of you who disagrees and thinks that during this should not Boycott the White House press corps.

We can hear from you and second we get the microphone to a couple of people with a cup of tea with his Jackman there is Dominic my feet of frontage.

I feel bad about it because what shall I put with that of their will come to you and just a second and there was another person the frontman for that if it forgive me before that before you don't just think they see if one more person thinks they should be boycotted.

Yes, you said reuters boycotting is probably a very harsh measure.

I would like to have seen more explicit support.

At the time I'm half French the Good Tradition Of striking in France I have seen him I have seen am at the Elysee Palace photographers strikes where they put their cameras down and ministers have had to Mark passed over but the time it was over the Diana affair what have you this stuff? Does actually work, but I do think that im some greater measure of support even if it wasn't sort of full boycotting.

You know was needed my help.

I felt you know I don't think the CNN collie, Buddz was adequately supported by its colleagues again.

Yes, you said former Prime ministerial press secretary in Australia the previous speakers taken the words out of my mouth.

I think a stronger shot support was there would have been married in that but I don't understand what the exit straight.

How do you bring such a boy called to a close great white suit and in Jessica's been really clear that you know if you do because his first amendment rights violated.

We want to see the institution of that press accreditation.

I would say we've had a lot of support from fellow Media organisations that happened in some of the press conferences Jim's middle part of people didn't lay down their cameras, but we have had a lot of support from these organisations.

I mean David you might have a comment on on this we don't feel alone in our fight to have his preference was reinstated him playing up via the wall Donald Trump the new I mean it's not really a war at all.

It's a marriage of Convenience CNN ratings are up very very sharply is the best thing that's happened to you and authority for a long time you setting best thing to have to Jim Acosta for a long time a very distinguished during this very careful Jonas no doubt but I suspect it will cost them might get it may be a film out of this I mean value.

Want to take this opportunity to publicly thank President Trump forgiving seeing as how much to report on now.

I think that's a simplification of the moment when it visually appears that way the reality is engagement for Media whether it's the New York Times CNN and CBS for everyone it's up in times like this extraordinary times like this with the rise of many the figures were singing in in public office and even didn't do you know some of the measures been passed like brexit will see more attention given to news organizations than we've ever seen before an absolutely no, we see more engagement as a result I think we're doing a job.

I really do I don't think the situation will be different if we had a different leader in in in office.

We would be covering that individual as well as recovering at the Donald Trump administration at that's what we're here for and I don't think I don't want to discuss something with one more than 30 award this year for cupboards around the world whether that's your Nick paton, Walsh should be with her.

Tomorrow are covering the fall of Isis or an MLB Gear and Lydia you know we produce a lot of content.

This is one story however two very important story and people do love to CNN we are in American that work at the end of the day.

Do you understand what's going on? Is there a tremendous changes its not surprising.

Thank you.

Make us all that might actually be a relief for the president not to have to face a room full of done this.

I have not had a long and hard look at the small print of White House credentials, if you don't show up does that mean those can be withdrawn so you get into potentially Undertaker territory that and we'll probably a court ruling away from strengthening the Freedom of the Press in the United States and establishing that there might be right for Jim Acosta to return on the point of creatine find anywhere Nick Redfern Facebook I'm not sure that wholesale Boycott would would work but I'm not I don't mix in those circles in Washington politics however, I would.

Say that I think it's a good opportunity for news organisations to think about alternative ways of telling their political stories beyond the press conferences and beyond the very stage managed announcements like that.

Relic Apprentice this isn't there an element of m a publicity stunt about this to think seeing her guilty of showboating which is something that's an idea that bouncing around the social media a bit where they win even if they don't win this this legal Battle of legal institutions and due process which is something that for better for worse President Trump is not a sincerely been particularly respectful of so I actually think it is in terms of a clinical legal institutionalized response is actually the smart way to go well if you don't.

If you don't believe that his presidential should have been pulled and we don't and I think that whether you believe in the room that they should have shouldn't be a boy card the vast majority down.

Love you.

Don't believe that the greatest benefit that you can give to the people who did pull the credential would be the boy that these arrangements that's what they want.

They would like us all to leave and decamp to lafia park and never come back and this would be handing them that victory.

I did think that the basic problem and this is why I'm not in before for others of us that cover the White House in there in journalism.

Is that the president's getting exactly what he wants which is to projector his supporters that he's taking the fight to the media which they don't like and an organisation is getting what it wants which is 2 cm.

Us viewers that it's taking the fight to the powerful and then we get asked to make a statement so there's really no way to win there, but we think it's inappropriate to take somebody's credential in this or any similar Circumstance and we've said that and we are supported through a white house Correspondents Association that are people are members of in good standing.

We want the organisation stands for something as it's been an annual dinner and actually stand up for press freedom and we're supporting it doing that and we've been supportive of CNN in that way ok.

Yes, we want to question for this is from Tammy Hoffman Tammy Hoffman

hi Tammy from ITN Productions in an increasingly polarized Society is media neutrality possible or even worth aspiring to Nick Rainford Facebook

I am so I come from a syllabub BBC heritage where that neutrality is to the drilled into you I think it's it's hard to do that because jealous of people news rooms are full of people are they not machines? They're not robots and where do you draw the line when the political parameters a shifting all the time so I think I think it's hard.

I think I respect news organisations that go out of their way to give people balance context an alternative views, but I think it's hard still BBC heritage last week.

There is a Tweet from a society of editors conference in which the daily mirrors Lloyd Embley the editor-in-chief said we have allowed the national broadcaster to become the biggest publisher.

We should never have allowed the BBC to become the all-consuming monster that it is am I right in thinking you retweeted that and then you deleted your retweet.

Petite I tell you why because I left out the word website so he said look I said BBC website so it yet, so you did so I inserted it again with BBC website good man on this point about neutrality.

It's a myth of Facebook neutral.

Isn't it? The vast majority of Facebook's belittle donations of little donations for Facebook staff about 87% went to Democrats when I spoke to Nick Clegg a couple of weeks ago describe Mark Zuckerberg to me too small l liberal the idea that Facebook is this completely impartial organisation is corporate nonsense I disagree with him in we have people who work for Facebook who come from all walks of life.

We have people from conservatory are people from Liverpool backgrounds and we have a lot of internal meetings a lot of internal discussions and you would be surprised by the diverse viewpoints that get raised when we have these meetings and discussions about these Very Things

But how can it be the case that 87% of donations according to the Financial Times went to Democrats Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl sandberg? You've been described as a liberal by the red star for the Democrats sympathies you have a leadership and a cool stuff that are both Linux so heavily to the left.

How can you pretend to be a impartial organisation when it comes to the distribution of news, so you'll also comes to Kaplan and comes from a contract check your a present actually I would just be able to tell you from from my knowledge of working in the company that there are far more diverse opinions and exchanges and open discussions about these issues than anywhere else have ever worked.

200 by that the audience when I come back to that point was a gentleman there anyone else so I think I'm struggling to see hands up hands up at the back going to come in on this.

Try and get a microphone to you.

Don't mind.

How to market except from BBC monitoring I'm reassured because I think that the point is not you know how we vote or what beliefs we hold but how we do our job and that's the probably the main point here and I think that should be special hold true across all organizations Facebook and the news organisations here to ok.

Thank micallef know the question was in an increasingly polarized Society is media neutrality possible or even worse aspiring to reality means today.

I think that neutrality is something to aspire to but everything in neutral news report.

I think it might be possible if your reciting numbers but we all have cultural contexts and I think it's very difficult to deny those I think the real time is that we have today is that creating balance has become more difficult in the sense that it's no longer getting a sound bite from each side because you have more fake news you.

Can I mean you could never rely on pole.

Say the truth right, but now you can't even rely on public outrage if if lies are just being thrown out there one by one I think 5000 Liza something by Donald Trump so far so it does the public outrage doesn't really work either so you know reporting that is no longer good enough, so we need more experts our world is getting more complex and we heard from Tony Hall the BBC director-general talk about you excite this example of a man who is taken 10 years to come back from the last financial crisis.

Well.

I think I'll roll is also to tell him that the next financial crisis might also be around the corner because I expert have talked to two voices who see that coming so I think that our role is changing in the sense that we have to produce expertise that in the in the past week felt quite safe collecting from other sources is Deutsche welle neutral or impartial.

It is impossible.

I have a personal problem with the word neutral neutral.

I mean are you going to use a bot is a box going to be neutral we are humans and I think there's no point denying that I think the most important thing is to be transparent about where I get my information from what I know and what I do know is sometimes.

Just as important and and also where are values are and Deutsche welle family dance on the ground of democratic values of the rule of law and that is something that we also represent and have no problem representing that run a cat groomers lot of people in British politics.

We think the ft was once impartial but it's been completely captured by a remainer tendency and on the issue of Britain's departure from the European Union has completely forfeited any claim to being impartial that was.

In in in the two years since and there's been a bit of a building about this question of hours you have to just in a big a big Romania and and and and growler the reality is she want to be with jack-o.

I think we would know what we're saying of course neutrality something to aspire to impartiality is a baseline requirements and that means you know I report needs to be based.

It needs to be relevant and 30 in its to be diverse because the best thing in the only thing that we can do as any publication can do is try to report on the diversity of opinions that however inform the facts and informed analysis and people increasingly today or going to decide for themselves that seems like a truism but actually I think there was a world in which before social media.

There was a sense of opinion that was driven or defined by mediate by the experts now.

It's been fragmented.

We live in a world in which people are going to be deciding whatever it is.

Be read or feel or see her own face and the only thing that we can do is be fact-based and relevant and Deborah szekely has to be impartial when it doesn't suit every room for black people on it's coming pages on the 16th of October publish the letter by are made on a encapsulate which I'm sure you remember from New Malden in Surrey he wrote that my analysis revealed that of the 861 articles 861 articles written by the Financial Times columnist since January 1st 2018 there was not a single one written by black columnist to this country do people could potentially contribute.

How can you publish 861 articles as uk-based publisher and not publish one by a black person and she tweeted out on and if that tally accurate but it's almost accurate and it speaks to three things.

I think it speaks to the fact that we now are not drink white.

Finley that as I was mentoring a diversity of opinions is Ashley vital to our credibility to the accuracy of our reporting what you are doing about them and so the second thing means that when I asked about it and the furniture times is looking at diversity with magenta perspective and an ethnicity perspective we have recently launched a development fund with cappuccino Chalisa put interesting with call the women's about me find any was a reaction to the meeting moments and reaction to our gender pay gap and by crowdsourcing within the Financial Times within our own employees across the organisation many women particularly, so that they wanted to spend to be the dedicated not to just generously butter brother diversity, and we are going to be hiring people who can actually help us had had any black colonists were going to be hiring people had greater flexibility to the ability to come back to work and work my

Flexibly or opinion editor is committing to changing the representation of our colonists and it's creators slot it's about new voices.

There's about seeking diversity in terms of gender ethnicity and religion and in our hiring which can be visible only in the context of other colonies leaving there is an officer position does diversity and were also working to recruit within The Newsroom new hires on a junior level who are coming from more diverse background that include diversity in terms of background and in terms of actually economic background columns if you really wanted to Debbie Ramsey from Newsbeat is in the audience.

I really want to hear her response that Debbie are you there? Are you there dairy? What do you make of that answer Debbie Ramsey from Newsbeat forget the microphone for lady in red, please?

I think got stuck somewhere and it's a massive problem.

So why while it doesn't sound like a lot you gotta start somewhere and you've got a start addressing these diversity issues, and I think all organisations have got a massive challenge ahead of them in that sense we making any progress Debbie so I think is going to bed.

I slowly but surely very very very slowly I think we're at the very start of the conversation about diversity in terms of race and class.

ok, we just go back to questions increasingly in an increasingly polarized Society is media neutrality possible or even worth aspiring to polarization is the reason why people don't believe that for instance next term can make

Impartial decisions if the donations have gone that way 20 years ago in the United States the Debate was about the efficiency of polling and whether we were finding what the result could be in advance now in this polarised environment if you know on election night which we just had if you know that someone voted and where they voted and one more fact about them you pretty much know who they voted for that people social graph as publicly revealed what you can expect the outcomes to be in so in the question can only be asked in an environment where it's that predictive you basically know how this is gonna turn out and that's why these inclusion issues, become more pronounced more important because there's an expectation that well.

Yeah everybody spoken for great white shark.

I think we need to aspire to convey news that shows all sides of a story I think that's the promise that we make your audience in a world where anyone to publish anyone can have my message anyway.

We have to stand for something we have to be attracted audiences.

They have a choice.

We not the only places they going to get the information.

So if you looking at CNN if you're coming to one of the brands on the stage.

Hopefully you're coming to ask because you're looking to get the truth and a balanced you and I take part of delivering that truthful.

You know asks us to show all sides and neutrals Polly not the right word about that.

Ok.

I was just under I want to try and get to questions in The Impossible Quiz 6 questions from Sophie penny.

I think is a student Sophie penny.

How can we bring back the large number of people who say they don't engage with news because it's too depressing brokerages.

What's the price for students represent? What's happening in the world? We need to show them but I think we also need to perhaps redress the balance and realised that people aren't only interested in thinking of in reading about terrible things perhaps if we show them good things.

They might want to read them as well that might generate income degrade answer from a student should be running a news rather than asking me have a quick fire quick fire responses at help me bring back the large number of people who said they don't engage in the use to depressing Michaela coffin important to them.

This program looks at particularly climate change issues and doesn't just show how bad it all isn't we all know it's very bad, but also what can be done about it, and I think this is terrible terrible terrible but what canal be done about it that but is very often missing and if you have that in the back of my head as he will be more constructive.

I think it's important to know who your audience is and know that your potential audiences and find out the kind of mediums in the kind of topics that they're interested in so my colleague Lila Kings afternoon is going to be talking about innovation and different storytelling and you know one of the things that we found is that unity you serve memes that you serve text over pictures images for younger people is a very legitimate way of telling a story and I think some some more senior people probably pack my age will sneer at it and say it's just you know teenagers.

It's not real news in Absolutely it is it's it's it's a way of communicating.

It's a way of telling a story so I think you know looking at your audience in fig.

Now their passions and why you cannot expect this expertise and during that conversation and it's really good opportunity to broaden and diversify storytelling David Rhodes audience strategy gaming we have to not turn everyone off because the fact that we report our difficult but this is actually the social media trap of people going someplace else just because it's more comfortable for them and I think we've got a actually reject that im in the basic unsustainability of the social media argument is that the big platforms are not publishers are not making decisions about information or dispassionate and that we all are as publishers.

Have a different set of responsibilities are responsibilities basically to convey what happened and if that's uncomfortable for people.

You know some of the images that Tony Hall depicted before were uncomfortable, but I think they were important but the Lord number people say don't think it's too depressing.

Yeah.

I mean I think part of our strategy as a business has been transforming ourselves from being in a broadcasted to being really a multi-platform publishing that means in digital particularly understanding audiences even better and we come across the kind of sentiment our responses been to tell more sides of the story and I take part of that responses been launching new verticals whether we're going deep into a business year transformation means or launching a product like great big story which is sort of you know me documentaries about Solutions about positive responses to real crisis that we should we face I think we've had that a bandage of that data coming in now now.

We can use that data to create new kinds of storytellin part that will be telling the solutions to meet the challenges that we have to see an end panels, which I find incredibly depressing because they've all people on opposite sides of you shouting at each other.

Dating or life-affirming about that expressing going to stay at the media.

I mean I think it's a slightly different topic.

We publish news across our linear channels across.

I digital channels and there are lots of ways that we can create their positive stories to tell them you leave the day on on the side of political debate we all know we seen the evidence of polarization and that's reflected in the kind of talk shows and discussion programming that we had a real big issues to talk about David you find.

It's not going to be honest wear on a panel, so I don't want to suggest is that a single at anyone but something is lost if I mean in the latter days.

Yeah, you get 7 people up there and they're having an argument.

You know what they're going to say when they're going to say it and has.

How many is going to react in this Very catalogue? It's a great question about depressing news and reacts you're trying to be explicitly the counter that inspired by Western lettings etsy name isn't working on for years.

I may be sure to see what the generation of rising journalist thinks of it.

It's called the question and one of the things that gets you will the president that news is that it's just a deluge of irresolvable problems any sense of futility so we launched an instrument called the question and it is about crowdsourcing with our readers solutions to specific problems that actually quite cordae what we report whether it's no pollution in cities in a cost of people's lives mental health and depression in the workplace which is often not reported in finance and it really is about getting people involved in a sense of problem-solving and having that becomes a narrative of what the news is about Flash be able to create the news this is from Kirsten Kirsten Kirsten

Lytham Crescent fire giving out the award for the best platform to distribute fake news who would you give it to?

Nick read if you want Facebook support for your new job application, I don't I don't want her for anything very much did this is this is something that we are spending more time and more resources increasingly trying to get her arms around you know I think we are in a different place than we were in 2016.

I think we've made progress.

We are with not cracked it but we making progress so at the beginning of the year.

We we put up a third party fact checking program at the moment which is done with the international fact checking network under the auspices of the poynter Institute we started the year with for fact checkers in 203 countries.

We we now have 32 Factors in 20 countries.

In 14 languages, have you got a lot more to do there were three reports recently one from the mind wandered University of Michigan and Stamford that said that the spread of false news and Miss information on Facebook is declining so we're in Courage by that we got a lot more to do so saying fake news is a tiny proportion of what is on Facebook and you've also had thousands of moderators who wants for the timer called at genders David rating is too much about how comes I mean if you have 3000 30000 300000 people but there are still some of these are epidemic problems then there's something basically wrong with that and I think that there is a double standard that applies to different formats different platforms.

I'm platforms like our traditional broadcast platform are highly regulated is a legacy proposition and ever.

Ulation just hasn't caught up to these know what question is if you had to give out an award for the best platform to disrespect you switch, when will it be? I needed you to name an institution or social media fitting a category name and institution go on inAzuma to give the price to two people it would probably be a little bit Facebook and I'll point in particular to the example the Philippines right now which is just egregious, but I would give the prize to YouTube as well, which friend are you haven't read dancing all brakes work at the Dallas in at Columbia about how YouTube is essentially the most important motor in driving extreme right-wing start in the US it is quite impressive and I think we speak to his basically.

There is a lot within technology that is controllable about the distribution of news that is explicitly manufactured and then I think institutions weather.

Show me the art need to actually be more active listings in controlling that Greg watch with a present United States will probably name your platform as a CNN should be given this award well.

Yeah, maybe we certainly wouldn't work out with us to snap spacesuit twinface to snap I mean.

I will have neighbour single platform.

I think for the reality social platforms are out there.

I think David's point they've been new they're not so new.

I'm sure they're thinking hard about the next steps and how they are not giving you the male equivalent unencumbered by any court for obligations whatsoever Pepsi you could name a single platform that would get your reward and say it has to be a warden issue.

Forced me what you obviously, would you name them it would be Facebook YouTube and Twitter I think it's a very important to highlight their platforms.

They are ways of communicating.

They are not news organisations and I think the onus is on us to make much clearer that that is the exact difference of responsible news organisations and being a platform.

Thank you very much a D2 David Rose president CBS news.

Michaela cook now Renee Kaplan nip round and drag back.