Read this: The Evolution of Sports Broadcasting

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts from BBC Radio 4 everyone bangs on about diversity in the media, but what exactly does it mean and is it always intrinsically good Yvonne Thomas is the new boss of the charity the Radio Academy Yvonne we'll talk about diversity data first wife go to ask you at what did you make any news at Simon Mayo and Jo Whiley are leaving the Radio 2 drivetime slots ok festival itself.

I'm telling you that you said it ok sleep deprivation Guy Fieri sorry if it's good for diversity and radio.

I'm loving it.

What would you think is going to go to diversity? I think if there's a change around as well.

It's always good to have change app to shake things up.

You know we need change every so often as interesting you say that was on the line is former BBC boss.

So sorry about your name by the way I can never make that mistake and entirely.

My fault and people always get my darling you over here either BBC producer and broadcast.

I'm pretty sure I've got that night.

They might even mentioned change at Jane and but there's a change of radiator at the moment.

Sorry board is also replacing Chris Evans in the breakfast slot at this is are creatures of habit.

That is too much change A Dangerous Thing well, you got to see Queen Radio 4 is absolutely thrilled to listen to hate changing you know set up positions.

Where are programs are moved 5 minutes backwards or forwards, so I'm there particularly difficult problems with change a thing but generally shaking up the audience.

She can up ideas bringing a new voices is a very good thing.

I'm not sure if that particularly applies in the case of exciting me otherwise think I'm steak was made I know there's a can of Rush to rectify it.

Ok Google

Predators facility and the broader issue in a little while, thank you both for the time being and also with me as soon as Simon Denyer and paranoid about his name that I've got that right effective design group Stephen that's correct even that fantastic Simon what is design designs a sports broadcaster completely delivered over the internet lots of love.

Lots of on-demand smart.

It's in loads of interesting places apart from the UK so I'll have to explain it to you more and more detail later.

I'm so glad you didn't say it was a Netflix for sport with a must tell you that in the past few months.

I've had entrepreneurs on the show who wanted to be the Netflix history, do I need to be the Netflix for arts and I was going to say your challenge is to be wholly original today, but you've almost tooth out already.

So you're in a good start well done Richard Broughton is here from ampere analysis Richard wilders own work at is Sonia work in some markets.

It depends exactly on the rights of the buying and different territories as to whether it's going to be sustainable in every single market, but I'm sure we can hear more from Simon that is.

Analysts on see if everyone from all of you guys are in a bit.

Thank you very much indeed for now first of all the Daily Telegraph is today reporting that it is been tagged by a powerful businessman in a case compared to that of Harvey Weinstein this tycoon has taken out an injunction against the paper to keep his identity secret the Telegraph says that he used settlement agreement containing NDAs that is non disclosure agreements to silence and pay off 5 employees who had brought complaint against the businessman company through its grievance procedure or through employment Tribunal proceedings the paper alleges that this leading businessman was accused by staff of committing sexual harassment and racial abuse that the court granting the injunction said that there was no evidence that any of the employees has been bullied all put under pressure to sign the settlement agreement and that they had all received independent legal advice it also noted that the agreements allow the complainers 2.

Disclosures about the allegations to the police and this case of course Rangers razors huge issues about the role of non disclosure agreements about the limits of free speech and the bizarre inconsistencies that prevent newspapers and the BBC by the way from naming someone who has been pilloried right now all over social media will Robertson QC work was Zelda Perkins who preached her nda to accuse Harvey Weinstein of Seeking behaviour and Geoffrey Robson write for the Telegraph this morning.

He's on the front page when I spoke to him earlier.

I started by asking where the nba's would being misused the area where indians have been used to cover up primer match.

Just not wear an employer tries to rape the secretary of whatever that was the case was that should be entitled without having to go to court and been bankrupted by legal costs.

They should be entitled obviously to go to the police and indeed to go to.

And it's the story they're telling his true because the employer can always do them for defamation if they're telling full stories but they should be entitled to get out of the news of the nda and speaker hot in the public interest in the courts should not hold them to their contract and so gay the revelation of crime or misdemeanor stent Jeffrey rnd as a tool of the rich legal aid such a state that it costs hundreds of thousands to enforce an nda and indeed to fight against enforcement service free speech becomes expensive speech went newspapers or employees have to fork out that amount even together Rooney and in America where they have.

First amendment many many newspapers in the case of Harvey Weinstein and of course advise Zelda Perkins very much involved in their Weinstein case you find in America many tennis went ahead and published because they felt in Italy publishing be down spirit that they had the both morality on their side and that ultimately Weinstein wouldn't take them on do you think that British publications including Telegraph if not in this specific instance should generally have more guts and just go for it to Bridget in ways that are very often in favour of property young and the propertied classes St George's tend to be commercially minded rather than they have no they're not talk about free speech.

We don't have a free speech philosophy in a law the Americans have what is called the First Amendment which is the duke?

Publish whatever you like so long as it's not malicious or reckless and that's true freedom of speech we don't have freedom of speech at particularly in the case of breach of confidence where things that all information that thought to be confidential will be suppressed can the level secrecy engendered by non disclosure agreements be sustained in a digital age when the scurrilous gossip of social media is unregulated can in fact this business person in The Telegraph case could be named in parliament today or of course scurrilous suggestions will be put on social media that probably going up as we speak so it is I think obviously there are lawyers who convinced.

Big businessmen and women but they're better off suing and getting an injunction, but it may be that the wise advice.

He is when the journalist rings and puts the question to you at 2 tonight to provide explanations and if the newspaper faced with that at the sides number Lister probably been to see them for libel and what you've outline Geoffrey Robertson QC is a highly unsatisfactory situation in which free speech is imperilled secrecy is something that is unsustainable to a large extent in the digital age and above all the rich are able to buy a degree of protection.

That is something not afforded to the poor what if anything can we do about this will unfortunately and unusually I think we can't really rely on the court.

So I think the matter has to be decided by Parliament

Have to be a law that prohibits or at least enables in the eyes to be unraveled where the allegation is that of either a criminal offence or a matter that is a public importance if there is an issue with public importance than the nda should not be binding and that could have been held by the courts, but they're not doing that job so Parliament must give them guidance will that was Geoffrey Robinson QC discussing the story on the front of this morning's Daily Telegraph Theresa May at spoke about this in prime Minister's Questions early this afternoon.

She said there will be a tightening up of the use of NDAs it certainly revolving issue.

I suspect we'll be coming back to it.

Very very soon.

Let's move on to the Future of sports broadcasting.

We've already met Simon Denyer of the zone and Simon you report to the just paid the box of Saul Canelo

How far is at 365 million pounds to show the next 11 feet tall is that figure correct it's in the right ballpark if you're talking dollars through that voted out the rates in the right ballpark.

It's linked to her ideal for both him and his promotional company which from by Oscar De La Hoya coming to call Golden boy to stage a series of events for us over the next few pages.

I mean the weight we have a major commitment to both golden Boy and also matchroom another pig boxing company, but match was a big UK boxing company that we're also now launching in the US big is boxing as a sport that traditionally been one of the biggest sports in the US it is and it had a very strange period of history had a bottle to big boom time in the 80s and even the 90s with the last become a big fly to being Mayweather Canelo currently the biggest fire in America he's the one guy that draws a big pay-per-view audience irregular does over a million pay-per-view buys, but the rest of the boxes are just not big enough to pull that type of drawing.

Pay-per-view markets falling apart that that them at the whole sport needs reinventing, so we've come in with a big budget.

We're going to be producing about 25 shows a cross matchroom and golden Boy each year are we putting hundreds of millions of Dollars into it and we changing the whole business model instead of you paying pay-per-view $80 will be a typical pay per view price you pay us a monthly subscription fee and you get two or three major fight every single month so you're saying that the basic problem with ink that the market isn't serving is a people who want to pay less for an antenna cafe at the moment overview in America is very expensive $80 also in the UK it's not for £20 but in America is really good can be motivated olives ok? You me eventually boxing this treatment if I log onto design right now, so did the pleasure of doing half an hour ago.

I'm mostly.

See you loads of up close shot of people getting kicked and punched in the face is that your Core i3? It is in the US but outside the us we have lots of other sports.

Have you got a market like Germany or Japan or Italy that the core propositions football soccer.

I just got off a plane from.

Castle Court half soccer half football football I say to every single one of my 3000 staff football football football football and then when you've done it 5 more times think of another Sports football is the thing that makes the world go round in and every single one of my throat is apart from America because Americans are different footballs are called proposition.

So if you go to all of our their territories most of our budgets seventy to eighty percent of our budget will be spent on football rights.

Get you a British company, but your product isn't available in Britain as you mentioned.

Why we've looked at all developed markets and we prioritise them based on connection speeds size of population GDP and also the state of the rights markets when you mix all those things up together when you prioritise the territories there's about 30 to 40 territories.

We want to launch his own, but we're doing it in the order of the best rental return on investment and we think there's a lot of other territories where the infrastructure is very very good for populations Bakelite Japan Germany us as he's already.

Rubbished and sports rights are relatively cheaper compared to the UK I catch to my friend listening at home is interested in boxing already that football that she's interrogate your business.

Well.

I briefly quick fire questions who owns the company its 85% owned by a company called axis Industries 15% owned by other shareholders including myself actors in season 11 of Anarchy Stanley Cohen formed out of content and it's gone out of diabetes going to work for what's the revenues ago about this year.

What to the prophet.

I'm not going to disclose revenues or profits.

Why not a public company Simon yes, so you can give us a fantastic story.

I'll tell you that our revenues are growing at Maldon to an absent boring boring boring is an expert expert in the business of sports broadcasting from Hampton Richard is there room in the market for Simon's Vision and if we look at the sports broadcasting like at the moment typically when you focus on markets like the UK or Germany or Italy you'll find one or maybe two big Play

How to control the bulk of broadcasting rights for sports and but what that means for consumers interested in that may be slightly more niche sports is the pipes under served the price point of getting access to even some of the the the mid-tier matches and leagues are very high, so you know if you are a La Liga found in Germany and yours probably gonna have to still be spending 22-30 €40 per month to get your Sky Sports subscription.

I was going to say nothing about my friend at home listening to this in the kitchen and think he got a few weeks ago.

They are telling us about this Netflix for heart who is going to tell him about his Netflix responsive on is is is is Notting agreement if there such thing as subscription 4th potentially we haven't read it yet though, so what we run regular studies of consumes about 16 countries including the UK are asking them about which services they have in a household on every wave Louis we've seen increases in the numbers of subscription services each household has say there.

Stopping at the will be a point when they just think what we can't afford anymore.

I mean in the US there are I don't know 150 different subscription online video service it would cost you thousands every month to subscribe to Holland it's obviously not achievable and we don't approve of illegal behaviour on this show but doesn't the existence of illegal streams render some of this obsolete them if I want to watch the the upcoming Tyson Fury v.

Deontay Wilder which is a big heavyweight match if I look for that on and social media stream or online Akinfenwa pretty quickly, why would I pay for all its NZ test series were there Simon interzone big but he was less than $80 to watch that's always always been the case that you can you can access pirate broadcast sore streams.

You might say to perhaps getting a little bit easier, but the fact that services like this coming in with lower price points means that consumers now have options where they're not being forced to spend very large sums of money every month and it may well in Thai some of those people you might be thinking well.

Should I part it I actually it's only five six seven eight nine dollars a month.

Maybe I should be paying into ok Simon and what's the stock one of the big network sky Princes taking you on and make your life a possible if Mark Zuckerberg woke up tomorrow said you know what I want Facebook to own boxing at a problem see protection it? What are not now because there is every single flight assign device without five to six years so tender side of a bear with a big budget.

He feels he just bought the future gorgeous could see your face with what you've been doing his own two years, but we've been doing sports rights for 20 years and obviously the key to sports rights and the key to having a great service that people subscribe to is have lots of different sports and the great thing about sport is this five major soccer leagues in Europe has the Champions League vs.

Europa League there's the four main us ports.

There's tons of boxing there's tons of tennis tours of golf holes, so we have a combination of everything and we have a lot of his rights signed up for many many years after 10 years and at the end of day.

It's the only thing we do when you get when you're dealing with a Facebook or an Amazon or even a sky.

They're selling telco services.

They're selling out.

Sizing they got a whole load of different things that trying to do sport a sport is a lot bigger than music or entertainment the sports Industries 8 times bigger than music so if music could make room for Spotify and Deezer an apple music sport can easily make room for dessert in the market is very very big and you know it there are there is room for both sky over c&l.

She wait we live in Italy and Germany were sky Live Without Your exhilaration got very big operation at you like the clarity of the subscription model cos it's very directly because he was often said that we live in at the attention economy attention various companies Irvine for who do you consider to be your competition? Is it other sports as other networks and broadcasters or is it smartphone to Snapchat I've got two I've got three three teenage daughter.

So I'm always worried about attention spans, but I've sport is unique sport there is scarcity was original programming you can keep producing it forever.

Where is sport the whole point of Sport

There is scarcity there was exclusivity and the big events always pull big audiences.

So if you have the big events, there is no competition.

Obviously there are other people vying for it, but the big sports events always pulling the big audiences and I always will enrich your funny.

How reliable is the technology behind the stuff I mean buffering and all the rest of it does that mean that there's a worry that Radio 4? This is what have that something could go terribly wrong as happen.

When was it Amazon show the Us opening it went psytrance Shore Sam and say that never affect his service but is there a danger that these times you can't be fully relied on as I think the technology is becoming increasingly reliable.

I think there will always be teething problems early on in the life cycle of many of these services, so I don't think it's unfair to say Simon you use a few challenges early on in Japan but it's as I got a learning experience and no one's that's happened.

You can make sure that these services are experiencing again alright.

Richard some thank you very much indeed and if I do wanna watch the Tyson Fury Deontay Wilder is that on design.

It's nothing to do with his pay with you and it will.

Will be ok with you say that either we want that you can't pick up your business and denigrate issue of diversity which is often treated in a rather simplistic way Dr Yvonne Thompson got that right this time with his meeting is a new chair of the Radio Academy anime answer you straight and simple.

What is the Radio Academy ok? So the Radio Academy is the training promotional and Talent development arm of the radio industry most of the radio stations across the UK are non members and supporters and subscribe to what we're doing.

It's been around for nearly 40 years and it's been a very it's been very instrumental.

I would say in keeping radio and especially radio Talent alive while we was Jane Graham use formula BBC in in Glasgow studio about that.

Just a moment or two just come back his issues diversity and you said recently that your mess.

UK radio was diversify or Die sounds nice sound strong.

What does it mean it really big that we have to keep developing and widening participation work in a well who wants to listen I mean.

I'm sure we love to listen to you all day, but the other way, but there's got to be you should mention that but there's actually no evidence that proposition that all that's got to be a succession of telling they've got we've got to be able to move on without without changing listenership.

You know the way that people listen to radio the way that the formats that they listen to we've gotta keep up and bring the new Talent in but isn't the evidence that actually UK radio is doing pretty well listening figures are holding up ok? There's a war for Talent witness the poaching of Chris Evans and Eddie Mair from the BBC podcast are giving a voice to many new Communities chat you say diverse file type and actually radio audios doing pretty well across the UK Slough by lots and lots of people it is doing but pretty very well, but pretty much the same as Sport

Room there's room for more there's more opportunities to listen and we got to make sure that the Talent and not just male voices all the time we have to have Diversity gender diversity equality race.

I was going to give me figure out of The Wizard complexity bad overseas in the recent Ofcom report have talked about TV rather than radio said that actually in TV there are more I think minorities more gay people then across the population as a whole is diversity actually something that goes beyond some of these very narrow categories that we focused on and it's actually about why do things like regional representation age profiles delicious fuso class out out in the community for instance one of my favourite radio stations and one that I keep a particular.

Ion is represent now until you know Megan and Harry died in.

Brixton to went to go visit them there wasn't much said about represent but I know they are developing such a huge bulk of Talent in and around London it's absolutely amazing images you know their budding.

I mean people like stormzy came out of this represents.

So you know this real Talent out there.

That's not that's not going through the usual do I save BBC in other you can't able to finish earlier? I can't bring myself to mention all the year did the reggae station is Alice Through the cops had any of them are illegal and James Graham fully the BBC In Our Glasgow see you again.

Thanks for being with us and for your patient.

Don't people getting right and what are people get it wrong about this idea of diversity and Radio 2 BBC Wales diversity and gender as well.

We are here certainly I listen to All Across all the station's and possibly with the exception of Radio 2.

I think I hear a lot of woman's voice.

I hear different ethnic groups what I don't hear particularly on Radio 4 is a diversity of class and if that you know you look at the voices on Radio 4 John Humphrys Michel see you and you are really beautiful.

We could go on and on and on and we really aren't hurting a lot of working-class.

I just I'm going my darling.

I'm not disagreeing you find midpoint by The Summer John Humphrys is it from a particularly wealthy background? Don't know what he has the BBC voice and that's interesting things will be for a long time doesn't matter where people come from there.

Is there a Scottish voices on there as well and you are being as I mentioned in various others the point is the evolved developed this kind of Oxbridge ebbc voice nothing an awful.

Lot of people are aware that this has to be configured people last night.

I just I knew I was coming on here.

I randomly after they were almost exclusively working class.

Actually, we talk talk radio for an Elsa well.

I just don't feel that to do or That's really open to me as it will look in the last week, but interesting Durham documentaries on this all what's the thing is you're interested in and he said well would be interested.

No thanks, but feel more comfortable listening to them if they were on 5 live on commercial radio lot of them prepared commercial radio as I do think Jane that there's there's been a whole Torino some progress in terms of honour.

Maybe not enough from what you're saying but actually made with a bigger issue is in what we broadly call management that it's off are the people making decisions the commission's executive that's where the diversity agenda hasn't yet advance as it alters you see it was absolutely me now.

I work for Radio 4 for a while and when I went there.

I phoned her eyes became for the first time ever having worked at Radio One which is very diverse.

We had of its time.

I think and when I was was and still is in the

Images of diversity but I felt very aware of my working class boys and my roots and just think I just a language that isn't understand almost everyone seem to have gone to Oxbridge and studied PPE and it was weeks before I didn't actually asked what is PPE what does it stand for interseal interviewed Michelle Hussain ethnicity program just last week and she told me but I should go into at the age of twelve.

She'd been sent to get a British education overseas in the Middle East are absolutely and she said you know that sheet for parents and family coming round tonight.

If she wasn't going to be a doctor and I thank god Radio 4 is full of people who see themselves as well died anti-establishment Rebels because he joined the BBC instead of a common heart surgeons are included.

Sorry that much on toxins from the air raid Academy what you do about that.

Let's come to practicalities specifics.

What's your what you actually use solve these problems.

What can you do what I think we need to be more open about how we recruit how we attract how we attract recruit and retain as you know people from diverse backgrounds.

You know we just heard that there's a lot of women across the BBC but what is the intersectionality of race of those women quotas mycosis.

I personally I'm all for quotas and you know I know people hate it when I say that but it's beginning to come round to the point where that's the way we're going to have to go in order to kickstart the whole progress during group files all from you and podcast.

Sorry we talk radio actually we should audio because podcast in many ways are very powerful corrected some users use on a wee featured someone called imriel Morgan for the shoutout network on the show goes with it yesterday evening.

She's activating a huge new community and get them listen to Radio 2 On podcast.

And to address issues that you and Yvonne Thompson the both worried about YouTube and then optically weird of radio stations in the different identities at all.

I was it.

Who do we set up 1Xtra which you gonna be well aware of and they actually began going around the country with job there so that they could encourage and people who do stop the BBC was close to them to apply and he brought to a lot of Voices from Paddington to Unity abbotswell saying this forgive me if it's actually nearly had time to another BBC doing a lot to try and get round country would have caused it has a very develop regional operations as well, which I think that's something for diversity guys are going to leave it there.

I'm sorry to hear you.

Yvonne Thompson from the radio cabbage and Graham Simon Denyer the chief executive of design and Richard Broughton from ampere analysis and indeed Geoffrey Robertson QC thank you so much for your time and thank you.

Uova listening remember to subscribe to the media podcast will be back the same time next week.

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