Read this: Media Masters - Paul Royall

Media Masters with Paul Blanchard welcome to media Masters a series of one-to-one interviews with people at the top of the video game today Amharic BBC new broadcasting house and joined by Paul royal editor of the BBC 6 news and 10 news after beginning his career in newspapers.

He joined the baby 1997 as part of the original news 2014 and later moved to BBC Breakfast where was appointed deputy editor in 2004 in 2007 Paul left his role to join the BBC's flagship News team taking the reigns as editor 6 years later in his 5 years in the Editors Jay has overseen to general elections the Scottish referendum brexit and the election of Donald Trump Paul thank you for joining me.

Thank you so poorly ABC 5 years then.

It's been an amazingly busy 5 years and extraordinary 5 years.

I remember when I was given the job and was a huge privilege to become editor of the BBC's.

6 and 10 Tuesday as you said flagship programmes on the front page of BBC News November.

I'm thinking the 101 anxiety I had was taking the programs through a general election because there's a many ways nothing more important for the BBC and BBC News than getting it right during a general election so having gone through two general elections a Scottish referendum on EU referendum and things like the election of Donald Trump that wasn't quite what I was expecting the Beginning when I got the job and this year busyness of what you have to cram into this room is 5 years and was usually when you took the red you didn't expect it to be this much news.

It's been a slow build and of course you are we never expected this not using everyone who works in the industry.

He can't believe how much is happening away it peaked last year and the Sword of the first half of 2017 in many respects where we just had a succession.

Have a very major and quite often and distressing a traumatic stories, but it Peaks probably RCA before example when we had to snap General Election that that happened after Easter and I'm about been off for a week having an Easter holiday for me like a lot of people and then it was my first day back in the office after week off and then I got a text saying there's going to be a nice man in Downing Street 11:00 and here we go or off on a general election campaign which is no minor feet for any Newsroom and what's your first thought when something like that happens, is it one of editorial challenge or is it logistics like who are you going to send out their you already started to think of how you going to put that on earth is everything and that is the challenge of television news in many respects which is a story can happen and you recognise the story of going to have to cover but at the same time.

You're thinking how we going to do it because of the movement of people and resources and kit to get to the right place is.

Is a logistical challenge and a job in itself, so the two things are running concurrently because we have to move people and Resources to stories whether it's Istanbul or whether it's niece at the same time.

We've got to be thinking about the editorials as well.

Could you talk to the typical day? How do you actually put out? You know that I don't want an episode of a bullet in some of the 10 news or a program program would be even better.

So I'm a bit of the 6:00 News when I made it with the 10:00 knees and they are the two biggest TV News programmes in the country and so they're busy days if you like busy days, and if you like long days, then you're like my days anyone who works in daily news is his used to the the the the new cycle and the stamina that is required particularly over them that the last few years and so my day begins like a lot of people quite early 6 in the morning listening to the Today programme getting ready for work coming.

Work newspapers newsletters that I posted on social media and so on and we have our first met news meeting of the of the morning at the BBC news at 9 in the morning but before that I've been talking to my team to my what we call our editors or program editors who are going to be responsibly the for that days edition of the 6:00 news all the 10 news, so nice.

Is between 8 and 9 in the morning because you're reading things you're disgusting things are getting a feel for the shape of the day and then there are programme meetings in the morning as a main BBC News meeting at 9 which you can imagine that there's a lot of stakeholders involved in that and there's a lot of ideas and a lot of him personally lot of stories and a lot of possibilities that come out of that meeting and then after that I'm into my program meetings at 6 news meeting disorder decide and dictate the shape of the program.

And then a bit later in the morning at 10 meeting which again is doing the same job in terms of what stories are we going to cover where is our emphasis going to be on on on you know that particular day and do you have as a can of typical 6:00 news program schedule in mind that differentiate it from the tender.

They have different tones and how how does that manifest itself.

Yeah, we do in the sense of the 6 news points more in a domestic News direction and it has a particular remit to cover the nations and regions of the UK and so with the 6:00 news if there's what you might call a discretionary choice over a story maybe not the sort of cool.

Must do new story of the day, but it discretionary choice and it's a choice between a domestic and global story it would tilting a domestic Direction similarly the commissioning we would do for the sixth form use with much more points in a in a domestic News direction and that so that we make sure we have.

A mainstream peak time BBC One news program that really feels like it covers the whole of the UK the 10 news points more in a global Direction these are not huge differences but again if there was perhaps the discretionary choice sofas story with my points in it in her in a global news Direction and again.

That's so BBC News and I'll pop peak time programs by the end of the day.

You should have a full sense of what's happening at home and Abroad and get her getting a real sense of the global agenda as well as the UK news agenda.

What's the worst preferences? These days? Is it to stick on news channel and have rolling news on off.

I mean I have News at Ten I can get in from work sort of 10:30 11:00, but I'd like to see if series link news at 10.

So I was watching when I get into it is literally appointment if you television it is that on the way out their eyes that is is that something that you think will run alongside running use.

Your answers to that for a long time when I joined the BBC 20 years ago when the news channel first started there were prophecies of of the end of appointment to view bulletins and they have been at various points since then, it's really interesting what's going on now in the sense of the 6:00 news.

It's audience has held steady over the last few years averages about 4.7 million viewers on any given day credit number is a misty landscape with a number of channels in that respect and it's always both programs the 10 and 6 are always top 5 BBC One programmes on any given day and are thus the successor has remained solid the tennessine.

It is still averaging at just under 4 million viewers on any given day there still massive programs there.

They are still figures that everyone would would would would would really want to have attached to their then use product the difference their wish we can also see.

The way people behave in the way we behave is it's really competitive broadcast space Innocence you know we're up against a very competitive rival in ITV news and also as we know.

It's a catch up time.

It's a plus one time and it's also a time when people are going on social media and and sort of doing other things so that is a more competitive landscape of both the program combines the programs are reaching more than 20 million people in the UK every week on any given day there reaching more than 10 million people one in 3 adults a bit of the 10 news every every week, so they are still massive programs, but we're on a competitive space within the TV news in the television market and also of course now within the digital and catch up market to go back to your typical day.

We are coming in at 9 a.m.

Are you still here when he was on there at 22 or do you watch from home you put them to bed and then at 7 you go home I presume.

The other person likes my wife a very big big programs complicated days complicated stories.

I'll be here all the way through but you're right.

I've got a very experienced very talented team who will know what they're doing and on a personal level you can't physically do they see our days forever you can't you? Can't do that.

I don't sleep.

I edit the programs editor but the program editors the people putting the program.

That's saying influence in what we doing and they're very very very talented team and they need their own space as well to do that thing I suppose that the question that a lot of viewers ask is what to what extent is he was personal involvement in putting the program together.

I imagined that he even just reading the autocue, but you know he isn't the editor he isn't one of The Correspondents what how does it work in terms of the present?

And very involvement putting the show together.

That's the question anyone a meeting the street always asks, you know do the presenters write their own scripts only able to inform them that yes, they write their own scripts in the case of qball are presenters.

He's a massive part of the editorial shape and drive of the program.

He is writing everything in terms of the two ways the interviews the questions the top lines of the stories Ola presenters of the you know heavily involved in that and also you need that editorial assistant is aware of team who were trying to get the best programs together in the presenters of a huge part of that because Innocence they could be one step removed from the immediate production process and they see things and hear things that perhaps we don't see and in particularly in the final hour if things are moving and is breaking news then their fundamental because ultimately if the story is happening just as you're going on air.

You're gonna have to expect them to deliver that story and do that story in a slightly more fluid open way than you normally would if you've pre-written everything got it all bolted down with an hour to go.

Do you have a a kind of review meeting after the after you've been on exit.

We had Neil Thompson on the podcast recently added to a good Morning Britain and he was saying that they're very big on as immediately come off their everyone sits down and they have a brutally brutally honest everyone says what went right and what went wrong and it is something we really need to look into a bit more have a deeper discussion about I probably wouldn't do that in the debrief in the sense that you might have LU2 it, but of course if they're things which have worked out of things we could have done better or we've made a mistake.

We we investigate that look into that I mean thankfully in Touchwood general.

The programs go well generally we're happy.

I think we've got successful products and programs and so quite often.

We might be talking about something quite small and incremental the we wish we had done as opposed to something which you know was fundamental to the program.

I mean just before we started to record the progress you very kindly should have stayed the computer is running order system that you have one of the things that I noticed about tonight's using 10 is just how plan down to the absolute second like Laura Coombs Berg will have 72 seconds or something.

How does that work in terms of the way that the news evolves during the day because you might have your meeting at 9 a.m.

But what was if the President Donald Trump says something at 14.

Cos it will you know to what extent is do you have to throw out the plans all the time and how has as well when you got a free meticulously planned program and then something happens and you think when I've got a create 4 minutes for this new thing.

We've you put your finger on particularly for daily news and daily television use use.

You put your finger on one of the big challenges in the sense that both the programs apart of the BBC One peak time schedule the 10 news comes after MasterChef from The Bodyguard in The Apprentice so they need to be Polish than you too high production values the audience expects a certain level 14 BBC1 during during that period recina newsreaders on the bodyguard in fiction and you want to see the symbol read them be actual news Omega afterwards at the same time.

You've got to be responsive and you've got to be flexible and you've got to be ref and that's part of my job in the sense that they did the actor editors are very close to the running order and the program and rightly so they they know everything that's going in every piece in the program and their driving at all through the day apart my job who can stand one step behind them is to look at the running to actually you know we.

Haven't moved with the days agenda with still where we thought we were going to be at 8:30 this morning and actually quite a lot of changed since then and that this is a real art to getting that right and sometimes sometimes you don't the new the new twist in all of that is of course digital news and digital media in the sense that people have consumed things by lunch time or early afternoon that 10 years ago did read things they looked at videos but maybe 10 years ago, but they would they wouldn't have seen they would be waiting to see got news on waiting for the 10 news and so again.

That's that's the new the almost no the news before and that's yeah.

That's something that said that that's something that we have to sort it out grapple with as well and so I think we generally get it right in the sense of the considered rundown of the day but we're also reactive programming if things are happening quite close to where and we think they're worthy of.

Fridge will do it and on a typical day.

How much have the kind of ingredients are almost pre-planned.

Opry destiny 2 files when Parliament sitting you know that someone else is going to say something say Laura is going to be stood outside over Downing Street or labour party HQ for 70 seconds on maybe there's a package and she's going to be in a studio with you and how much of it.

Can you can have almost put together on any typical day in terms of ingredients.

I'm gonna go in there's a bit of that.

There's a bit of a science to that, but it's not an exact science in the sense that you can be to pre plans and then that get that gets in the way of getting the new song at the same time to deliver impact journalism to go deeper into stories to do more complicated stories or to do a big investigation abroad or to do some in-depth coverage of the ranger crisis.

What's happening in Syria that clearly requires planning and requires commitment from the programs in terms of pudding space in the program to deliver these store.

So again, you don't want to be over text but at the same time quite often those pieces that you've spent a bit more time and resource with and can be the pieces which the audience remembers for a long time how of the 6th and 10 changed over your Turners editor because as we said earlier so much has happened at but there's a risk that you that busy putting the news together and working in it to not have enough time to work on the programs and involve them in the direction that you want.

How does that work? You've done a number of things over the last 5 years with no particular things impressed with his we made the 10 news longer there was there was a strange thing that it was the shortest bulletin of all the BBC One bulletins and I think that was a sort of one of those historical things that just become embedded in in in the listing know when the 10:00 was the 9:00 News when I was so so we made it longer we added.

5 minutes to the duration of wishes to the program which is quite a lot at we had it about another 20% and we hope that the audience would buy into staying up a bit longer the reasons behind that were we are all already getting that sense of we living in a bigger more complicated politically socially dynamic.

And we just needed a bit more space to reflect to reflect and to explain and tell it all there's a lot going on and then also some of our foreign and domestic reporting where we were going to look a bit deeper and spend a bit longer.

I'm looking an issue or or or or or subjects.

I wanted to talk to devote a bit more time to those pieces and very the mix between soya to two and a half minute on the day news story which the audience wants in the audience should get but at the same time if you want to have a proper look at a bigger.

You in the UK Mabel going to give that 4 or 5 minutes and really feel like we understand what's happening in the housing sector in the UK or why is Spice suddenly become such a problem in in some of the cities around the UK or again in-depth foreign reporting from the ranger crisis or or or from the Middle East and so there was a couple of practical things they're there was also broadening the range of people who were participating in the programs and so we started to use some of the BBC's bilingual correspondence much more they're excellent Correspondents they understand Crofton from the country.

They reporting from and if they're in the country when a story is happening again.

This is part of a reaction to the Digital world in the sense that if a story now breaks summer in the world you can.

Start listening to someone not following someone watching a video stream pretty instantly.

You don't need to wait for us to fly someone there, but I'm from London and sort of stop picking up the story the next day.

It was partly in response to that it was partly also just to broaden the breadth and range of what we doing on the programs and that's delivered real dividends in terms of some of our global coverage.

What can I feed back? Do you get for me viewers? How do you stay in touch with in terms of whether they like it you mentioned there about the the extra 5 minutes at how would you have known whether that would have worked or not.

I think we have seen an audience drop off if it hadn't worked and so just purely through the the audience data in the overnight data that we get staying in touch with the audience something we have put we have a very good audience team who worked with us within news who are always talking to the audience getting feedback from the audience around stories.

She's trans we have a man audience law which is a daily log which is people who've found in or emailed in overnight sought after the 10:00 used to say they like something or they don't like something and you'll soon know if some people do they do that yes, they do that still happens.

Is it nearly complete mainly complain but again you know if actually maybe you didn't get something spot-on or actually if you left something out and so obviously games social media now and it just the world.

Yeah.

You can have lots of people can actually be be seeing say that was terrible thing about the wouldn't use languages temperatures that would be let's be honest.

You can have lots of friendly feedback from people so I thought we have a pretty good range of ways in which we could stay in touch with his wife also always try to be as audience facing with the programs have been involved in as possible and so we do a lot of focus groups and you know we do sessions with.

Audience members where we show them programs and individual pieces and you quickly get a sense of whether you're hitting the Mark or not when things do go wrong.

What does go wrong? What is the kind of thing that you're always on the look out for during an average program that you put out the main danger is editorial mistakes legal mistakes and that we have pretty strict structures and processes in place to ensure that doesn't happen and say that thankfully hasn't been as a huge feature of the last 5 years and then there's technical failure which in a way is something obviously I can't control and so famously last year we couldn't get on there one evening at 10 because of a system and it was 4 minutes.

We can get there till 10:04 and the YouTube clip a few.

Famously I was just looking is now but not on her hair.

Whenever we get on there was there was breaking news bug-eyed infiltrator headlines and so obviously has a lot of time passed now that you can laugh at that all it does is discard emotionally from it wasn't great but yeah, we look back now and think well, if you know these things are going to happen periodically someone suggested that it's the whole 4/2 minutes should be entered for the Turner Prize because it's some has symbolised represented the sort of broken news.

We had this extraordinary run of news and then the news blow-up.

Yeah, I use different news channels to look at.

Yes, exactly was presenting the 6:00 news on Christian Fraser did hour and a half live behind the scenes as it was happening and that was an incredible insight into you know just how it was put together and just is literally done at breakneck speed.

Isn't it? Yeah, we really enjoy doing that.

It was a really good feedback from people watching it hands and the audience is something actually like to do to the 10 news because you do then see the very real challenges and you know what goes on in the gallery.

It's amazing how everything comes together.

I'm at 6 and which is incredibly busy day, if you are editing the 6:00 news and putting that program and everything coming together and the director and marshalling that gallery with 50 screens in front of the 100 buttons to press something.

Something out of NASA and also that recognition which again is a real TV in television news thing which she is every link in the chain is critical and that and that's why it is Folly to imagine that if you're the editor you can make it all work on make it where everyone needs to do their job and get their bid writer it all to come together.

That's why I say satisfying industry to work in because it's a real team effort and it involves so many colds in the chain.

You must get us a sense of the the huge responsibility though, you're being the editor of the BBC's flagship new soldiers that ever can I weigh heavily on his shoulders going to get on with it.

Yeah, I think that's all it's a privilege is huge privilege to do the job.

Yes, it's a huge responsibility and you think about it periodically but if you thought about it the whole time you wouldn't be able to function and operate you thought about the audience and what the

Shopping tails and so you know what I would say to the question is we all I answered everyone in BBC News ever on my team we all treat the job really really seriously and we all take an enormous amount of care over what we do and we are all public service orientated journalists and broadcasters who are thinking about all the things that come with that in terms of impartiality and trust and delivering for audiences the 10 news is one of the BBC's big rundown of the news agenda on any given day.

It's not necessarily the world or the news according to Paul royal it's what we the BBC for you are the stories and the issues on the subjects that the audience should be told about on any given day and so we take you to care.

We know we need to deliver authority.

We know we need to deliver analysis, but we also know.

We need to deliver relevant engaging news for the audience you know where was he helps enormously by this by the Talent and the people in the correspondence in the Editors who were part of the programs and so never say big Westminster Day you've got Laura kuenssberg holding your hand through the story of the big Donald Trump they've got Jon Sopel if it's a big Johns got the best job in journalism, wasn't he could have you just done Spencer's how many basically says on Twitter like what on earth is gone.

He's got a brilliant fantastic and so brexit.

Got Katya adler's no not fancy has to go.

Yes, there's a responsibility their big programs, but at the same time.

We've got the people and we've got the attitudes and the public service awareness to deliver for the audiences.

Do you have to be mindful of the language that used to cannon making politics or economics more accessible, because it is a gen.

Roll public audience City technical technician like brexit which yes, there's the the cut and thrust of the Politics of the day and whether Boris Johnson's up or down or whatever but it's also an incredibly technical subject isn't it? I don't know what the balance of payments actually is I could probably pretend I do but I actually don't but I need to explain to me in a way.

That's isn't going to do it down but also makes accessible as a really good questions a really important question and again.

I think during this period is so relevant for news organisations and news broadcasters in Eggheads as I said earlier with part of the Peak time BBC One schedule.

You just been watching The Apprentice and the News comes on and you think I'm going to sit around and watch a bit of this stuff and is really contingent on us to explain those terms and and and try and try and make it clear and we don't know we done a lot of work over the last couple of years with younger audiences and I'm looking at what younger audiences want.

News on and one thing they want out of the user's is so Divino explaining terms and making it clear but that's that's something we need to apply and we try to apply libidou apply Ride Across the piece particularly when we talking about stories like brexit and complicated economic times as well as I remember growing up watching the national news that it often used words.

I didn't know what they meant and have to look them up and the exception for that was John craven's Newsround they would actually explain what that you know what the national debt was or whatever I member when King John famously called Donald Trump dotard I was the first time that you never explicitly said what it is and I think it was Sophie Raworth it said for those unaware of the term dotard means you know adultery old idiot basically because that's that is the challenge isn't it to make sure that the viewers can understand quite complicated subjects in 3 minutes and that is the art of a great news broadcaster is being able to tell a

Heated story in engaging but also clear way that people can understand and that's really really hard.

That's really hard if it if you're saying ok to explain the productivity puzzle to me in 2 minutes really really tough for explain what's going on in Syria in in 2 1/2 minutes, but that's that's the job.

We do.

That's the challenge.

I hope we do it successfully most of the time but I think as I said earlier deep the sort of the other times we live in and with everything has been going on the onus is more and more on being clear with your turns one of the questions.

I've always intrigued me about your job is how do you literally decide the order of the news? You know if 100 people are killed in country air and 50 people are killed in country b.

Which one is the most noteworthy in do you prioritise domestic? How do you how do you decide because clearly have to start everyday with a blank sheet of paper.

Are you then got 10?

Stories you have to choose the running order.

What is Hugh going to say when the bones come on like first we only do probably 89 stories on each bulletin and they're not the same stories on each bullet in so there's a little bit of a spread in that respect on any given day.

That's going to be a self selecting agenda.

There are there are going to be three or four stories which for better or worse if you put 500 jaundice in a room with all say that's a story that should be in the daily news that day and so to a certain extent that has been decided for you and then we commissioned stories which generally we feel are reflective of the biggest shoe or a big problem or a big challenge that's going on at home or abroad, a theme that is emerging and so it gets in the program because in our judgement.

It is it is a valid addition to the days news so for example.

BBC reporter from Nicaragua where there's quite a lot of fun political unrest and social unrest developing and I don't remember actually over the past decade after report of Nicaragua on the programs and sofa lots of different reasons.

That's a valid story to put in the 10 news that evening and then there's obviously what you might call the Sword of the day after end of the news agenda, which could incorporate sports and arts and entertainment and again the audience wants that part of the news agenda as well and so it may not be hard news that a sports person has retired but talking to them reflecting on their career is something that the audience enjoys and expects in Italian is possible.

We deliver as as a news organisation.

How do you treat entertainment stories because sometimes they clearly news if someone in the Big Brother house swears on assault someone of a you know it's obviously needs but sometimes.

Might not necessarily be I'm thinking of maybe a big movie launch for example.

Is there a pressure to have a can of Formula where you be of light and shade and you start with a more serious hard-hitting things and then go to be to Les heating storage should we say any news product whether it's a news program newspaper a website you need a bit of texture in there any deranged and again you're getting there on its merits if it's going to be the biggest film of the year and tens of millions 100ml pounds of gone into it and we think it's is it an interesting valid thing to be looking out then then we'll do it and again.

You just sorted judge it on its merits budesonide you definitely texture in programs, because they say these are but these are part of the BBC One schedule.

These programs people want to watch something which is informative and engaging and tell them what happened today.

Give them a window on the world, but also light allows them to enjoy reports about things that maybe they're watching or consuming as well.

It's your job is editor.

To look at the competition to look at other news programs.

Yeah Tom on ITN but also sky and and in other ways of news presentations around the world, how much do you is your job to keep your eyes and ears open to see what the competition doing absolutely always looking around and what works and what doesn't work and then he's doing things differently and son and what you like at the same time.

We could have very successful formula there there there two biggest TV News programmes in the country.

They get bigger audiences and the style and the way we deliver them is something which audiences buying two of course we want to keep evolving and then we watch the competition and we have amazing competition in in UK broadcast news how strong it is and so there's always things you're looking at 4, but at the same time.

We have an authoritative presentational anchoring style.

We've got some very experienced senior correspondent editors and they and they the presenters below.

The content of the stars of the show in the Centre Ellesmere all of this is to deliver high impact relevant content for audiences.

Do you ever feel like you're a bit but upon their because the unique where did BBC is funded of course you you get attacked from both sides at a particular on issues like brexit.

Where everyone things to seems to think that you're on the other person cyber it seems to increase these days with you know that the March on and Nick Robinson in Scotland and Laura kuenssberg.

Have a bodyguard at last year's Labour Party Conference Andrew Adonis saying that the BBC's the Beretta the brexit Broadcasting Corporation it seems that even politicians now seem to want to attack the BBC for you guys being bias now.

I don't believe you buy for a second but how do you deal with that? Did you just get on with him? So well, we're not buy a steam organiser is there a way that your mind full of that.

Let me first of all as I was alluding to earlier.

We've we've lived through a very busy.

Ideas of politics and and social change technological cherry actually they all come together in a sense so we had elections we have a referendum and we've had binary choices of seeing these referendums which which means that passions run high and people have opinions and the BBC as as as the biggest news broadcaster is the recipient of a philosopher and anyway all comes together through a combination of what's happening politically what's happening socially and then what's happening technologically in the sense that as we talked about earlier people get in touch and make their feelings known and post things and say things and find a way of making their 0.9 occasioni the BBC will say something or put something out or write a piece to try and explain what we doing and again.

It's sort of contingent on us to do that but again.

We have to be really really confident that we are delivering impartial authoritative public service journalism and news we make judgements based on the experience of some of our best correspondence and an editors and I'm really really confident that we've done a really really strong and important job during that whole period and said course you take notice of it of course occasion.

You might think about it and worry about it a bit but again quite often when we've had to make our case say after the referendum.

We put together as a Little Piece around the pieces.

We've done before the referendum.

Just trying explain to people that yes, we had weighed up the economic case for and against brexit all we had waited up for and against brexit the business case I see the programs.

The pregnant every day and sometimes some of the criticism we dealing with our to do with one particular thing on one given day and they don't actually reflect the longitudinal coverage that we've done will there be a 6 and 10 news 10 years from now.

That's a good question.

I would say probably not want you wanted to be asked.

I think I'll be a 6 and 10 news in 10 years time.

I think will you still be editor? Will I still the editor intern? Yeah? Yeah good question take it from me.

Yeah.

I think they will be but at the same time the world is changing quickly and then maybe more digital support around those programs and they may find different guises as well put it in the end.

I think we'll be learning through everything that's happening is through a period of flux.

And technological change a fixed curated appointment to view for now anyway rundown of what's happening in the world delivered by a news team that audiences trust and respect is probably a bigger place for that now than there there ever has been because there is so much that you have to contend with when you look around but what's going on have to be extra careful when the BBC itself is the source of the newsletter of the gender pay gap BBC women all of the cantina Lisbon the Hutton enquiry all these kind of things recently that sometimes you know maybe two out of three nights a year the BBC itself is going to leave the story giving your uni place in society is not something you have to put it very carefully on an ediscovery like anything else you cover it like anything else.

Just said about covering the story and it's it's the BBC story yeah, maybe one or two things which are obviously peculiar to that story which you wouldn't get any different types of story but in the end.

It's kind of business as usual he put a bid in to Tony halls office to say can I get the DJ on and then we'll say yet, it was so we are all the stuff.

You'd expect a one in any store in 43ad gifts of course I watch the BBC 10 news, but does do you feel a sense of a need to connect with younger audiences at you know you were talking earlier.

Just before we got we started the recording about and initiative that you working with BBC3 got to tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah.

I mean news organisations with thinking about going on within the BBC which points in that direction and we want younger audiences watching the 6 and 10 news and if that the 10:00 Muses is the youngest TV bulletin.

In the pin the BBC but we need more of them and obviously we recognise that we have to go to where they are as opposed to expecting them all the time to come to where we are so we've been doing a bit of work and with BBC Three to see whether we can come up with the news program that can work for a sort of 18 to 34 audience and it and it came out of a very very simple conversation with one of our news trainees and she said there's nothing between Newsround and 6 and 10 and it was so sort of blindingly obvious was so simple that we can actually why don't we try and make something which is between Newsround and 6 and 10.

What's your personal journey heater? Did you always want to be editor of The 10 news Studios want to be a journalist? How did he start out? I never first second really in my early career imagine.

I'd end up as editor.

The 6 and the 10 an hour and again, I will when I got the job and a friend of mine so that you know your situation.

Thank you too late for cancellation.

I got into journalism really to do sports journalism and so am I will have started in newspapers and my mind mind my desire and interest was in sport medical students and pick up other interests and I started doing more news and then famously and I was half right here, but probably mainly wrong about 1994a say to a colleague of mine in their local newspaper that I worked in the print was dead and I'm off to TV that's where it's all happening at least colleague went on our 22B editor of cnn.com so I'm I reflected on there but anyway I moved off into TV and again.

I never really expected.

Petit the 6 and 10 had initially in TV I was working on iTV and I ended up for the BBC when the news channel started because that was the future in terms of multi-skilled journalists and then it sort of road from there was a story of hope they're in the sense that there was no plan.

There was no great ambition that there was no big scheme and actually has said I got into journalism to do sport at the BBC 20 long time yet the BBC is vast and you can still feel like a new be 20 years on.

There's still lots of parts of the BBC a lot of people you've never met or don't know exist and the one thing within the BBC is there are so many different opportunities and you can you can do and be what you want to be and I

Can I know sometimes from the outside that can seem like it's not the case, but there are the opportunities there if that's what you want to do a lot of people listening to this podcast are aspiring journalists that student journalist are listening because frankly they want your job 10:15 20 years from now.

What advice would you give them in terms of do's and don'ts be curious about things treat all stories and people you meet and things you do is as good positive experience United in local newspapers doing what looking back now would feel like pretty micro inconsequential stories for that's all part of who I am and the journalist.

I am don't feel this some sort of set formula, which means that you have to follow to get to a job like this the BBC is changing a lot with lots of opportunities that there's lots of ways of getting into into good interesting jobs, but keep a journalistic curiosity going I think in a way.

That's the most important thing.

And in my particular do there is a particular skill-set around television YouTube it'll work with people you gonna be able to work with a vast range of people you've gotta be prepared to go through those logistical challenges to get news on air and so yes, it's about being a strong editorial figure and thinker and having ideas and and creative ideas, but you've also got to have a skill so which goes beyond that you're not a one-man band and particularly within BBC News your part of quite a big team Polish been a hugely enjoyable conversation.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you are right angles podcast in association with big things Media